Are the Warning Passages in Hebrews About Hell?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Are the Warning Passages in Hebrews About Hell?"

Grace in Focus – Grace Evangelical Society
Air date: September 12, 2025
Host: Bob Wilkin, with Ken Yates and discussion partner Bob
Duration: ~13 minutes

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Main Theme

This episode of Grace in Focus delves into the so-called "warning passages" in the New Testament book of Hebrews. The discussion centers on how to interpret these passages—are they intended as threats about eternal damnation (hell/The Lake of Fire) for believers who fall away, or are they warnings of loss and discipline in the present life for failing in faithfulness, with implications for rewards rather than salvation?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Debate on Hebrews' Warning Passages

• The episode concludes a series on "Tough Texts"—passages that are commonly interpreted to mean one can lose salvation or must do good works to be sure of salvation.
• The focus today is the challenging warning passages in Hebrews, particularly chapters 2, 3-4, 6, and 10 (01:36–01:46).

2. Predominant Views within Christianity

• Bob outlines the two primary views (01:46–02:51):
  • Free Grace View: The warnings are about severe, temporal judgment—loss, discipline, or consequence in this life for believers who turn away from Christ, not about hell.
  • Majority View: The warnings are about the danger of hell (The Lake of Fire) for those who fall away—this includes those who believe in possibilities of losing salvation, proving one was never saved, or failing to attain "final salvation."
• As Bob summarizes:

  "The predominant view is what the warning passages are warning about is the Lake of Fire." (02:49)

3. Tensions within Eternal Security Traditions

• The hosts discuss the inconsistency among some believers in eternal security who make exceptions for apostasy (03:05–04:38).
  • Bob uses Luther’s "ocean liner" analogy:

    "If you're on that ocean liner, you're saved... But if you jump off the ocean liner and you're not in it anymore, then you're not saved anymore." (03:23–03:52)

• Bob and Ken challenge this view as inconsistent and strange, especially regarding what counts as "leaving the ship" (apostasy).

4. The Free Grace Position on the Warning Passages

• Bob Wilkin asserts:

  "...this is not talking about the lake of fire. The warning passages are not threatening people...with going to hell." (04:38)

• Bob (discussion partner) adds:

  "...it's about fire here and now. If you look at 10:26–31, he talks about a fiery judgment, right? But it says the Lord will judge his people... the author of Hebrews is warning believers." (04:57)

5. Textual Examination: Hebrews 6:4–8

• The hosts analyze the "tough text" of Hebrews 6, emphasizing:
  • The audience is clearly believers ("holy brethren" (05:29), "sanctified by the blood of Christ").
  • The language in 6:4–5 ("once enlightened," "tasted the heavenly gift," "partakers of the Holy Spirit," etc.) is the strongest possible description of born again people (07:04–07:27).
    • Citing Arminian scholar I. Howard Marshall, who admits the language clearly refers to believers (07:09–07:27).
  • They humorously debunk the claim that "tasted" means merely "nibbled," noting the same Greek word describes Jesus "tasting death"—clearly fully, not a "nibble" (08:17–08:34).

Memorable Exchange:

• Bob: "Jesus tasted death. Did he just nibble at death?" (08:24)

6. How Interpretive Presuppositions Shape Conclusions

• Many interpreters start with the assumption that the warning is about hell—forcing them to conclude that the subjects can't be saved (08:39–09:11):

  "If you start that these warning passages are talking about hell and you believe... a believer can't go to hell, then you have to say, okay, he's not talking about believers." (09:11)

7. What is Actually at Stake? Blessing, Cursing, and Reward

• The passage gives an agricultural illustration: one field, two possibilities—good fruit or thorns/briars, resulting in blessing or cursing (10:20–11:11).

  • Ken Wilkin: "There's only one field here...two options. It is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned." (10:34)
  • Bob: "If we yield cursed fruit, what do we get? We get cursed." (11:07)
  • Ken: "What if we have blessed fruit, what do we get? Well, we got blessings." (11:10)

• They tie these motifs to the Old Testament covenant blessings and cursings (Deuteronomy 28–30; 11:21–11:39).

  "The author of Hebrews, he's not saying, if you don't stay firm to the end... you're going to burn in hell. What he says is, you're going to fall under the curse that sin brings into your life now and the loss of rewards in the world to come." (11:41–12:07)

• They emphasize that salvation and adoption in God’s family remain secure:

  "The one who has believed in Christ has been perfected, been set apart forever into the family of God." (12:07) "If you jump off the boat, you're going to get eaten by a shark. But you're still a child of God." (12:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bob Wilkin (emphasizing security):

  "These are believers that he's talking to...they have been sanctified by the blood of Christ once and for all. So these are believers that he's talking to." (05:29)

• Bob (on the logical problem of assuming warnings mean hell):

  "Once he starts there, it forces him to come to an illogical conclusion regarding these five participles." (09:04)

• Bob (clarifying the warning):

  "...judgment right now is about to fall." (11:21)

• Ken Wilkin (applying the warning today):

  "...you're going to fall under the curse that sin brings into your life now and the loss of rewards in the world to come." (12:07)

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Breakdown & Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:05–01:46: Introduction and context of "tough texts," overview of scholarly engagement
• 01:46–02:51: Outlining two major interpretive positions on Hebrews' warnings
• 03:05–04:38: Common inconsistencies in understanding eternal security
• 04:38–06:24: Affirmation of Free Grace view: warnings concern discipline, not hell; believers’ "heavenly calling"
• 07:00–08:17: Textual analysis of Hebrews 6:4–5; I. Howard Marshall's acknowledgment of genuine believer language
• 08:17–09:11: Refuting "nibble" argument and exposing presuppositional bias in interpretation
• 09:25–12:07: Exegesis of Hebrews 6:6–8, OT background of blessing/curse, application to Christian life
• 12:07–12:32: Assurance: eternal security maintained; warning about discipline/loss, not loss of salvation

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Tone and Delivery

• Scholarly yet accessible, gently humorous at times (especially in their back-and-forths on metaphors and church anecdotes)
• Direct, confident assertion of the Free Grace position, but also respectful toward differing positions

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Summary

This episode argues forcefully that the warning passages in Hebrews are not about the danger of hell or losing salvation. Instead, their context, language, and Old Testament background show they are serious warnings to believers about the real consequences—discipline, loss, and missing out on reward and blessing—in this life and in the age to come, but not the loss of eternal life. The program encourages listeners to interpret such texts with an awareness of context and biblical theology, not fear of condemnation, and closes by reassuring believers of their security in Christ, regardless of setbacks or failure.

Transcript

[Bob Wilkin]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.

[Ken Yates]

On this episode, we are finishing up our Tough Text series with a look at Hebrews. Hebrews has a number of warning passages so we're going to talk about what these warning passages are about. Thank you for joining us, friend. Today, Grace and Focus is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website is faithalone.org Lots can be learned about us there, including about our seminary free online seminary, Grace Evangelical Seminary, where you can earn an M. Div. Degree for free if you keep your grade point average above 3.0. Find out, go through the application process. Come study with us. Grace Evangelical Seminary all the information you [e-mail] and now with today's discussion about Hebrews, here's Bob Wilken along with Ken Yates.

[Bob Wilkin]

And Bob, we've done a number of passages on Tough Text where many people within Christendom look at these passages and believe that they are teaching salvation by works or that you can lose your salvation if you don't do good works.

[Bob]

And that you should doubt your salvation if you don't have a life that's just overflowing with so many good works that it's just obvious that you're near perfect.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right. And we have a class in our seminary that deal with, you know, about 12 or 13 of these tough texts. And we're on our last one here. We kind of.

[Bob]

And you picked a tough one for the last one. How can we do this in a short period of time?

[Bob Wilkin]

But anyway, we won't be able to. But we're going to give it a good college try. We're talking about the Book of Hebrews in general and specifically warning passages in the Book of Hebrews.

[Bob]

So there's five warning passages in the Book of Hebrews. I remember when I was at Dallas Seminary, Kim Oberholtzer wrote his dissertation in the Bible department on the five warning passages in the Book of Hebrews. And he took what we would call the free grace position. But there's two different views on what the readers are being warned about. One option, the one that Cam Oberholtzer took, is they're being warned that if they fall back into animal sacrifices and turn their back on Christ, go back into Judaism, they're going to experience a terrible judgment in this life. And the other view, which is much more common in Christianity, is if they were to fall back into Judaism and do that, they would either lose their salvation and go to hell or they would prove they were never saved in the first place and go to hell, or they would fail to win final salvation if you took the new Calvinist position. But in any case, the. The predominant view is what the warning passages are warning about is the Lake of Fire.

[Bob Wilkin]

I don't know if you've run into this, but one of the things that I have found with the warning passages, and it's a very strange thing to me anyway, is what you just mentioned about people who think, well, these, all the warning passages, and I think it's the most common view is talking about people going to hell.

[Bob]

Right.

[Bob Wilkin]

But what's fascinating to me is that you will have people who say, I believe in once saved, always saved, except for apostasy. You'll have people who will say, you can't lose eternal life, but you can give it away. You know, if you apostatize, then you give it back.

[Bob]

I remember my master's thesis on the perseverance of the saints. I had a quote from Luther and he said, salvation is being in Christ. And it's like a big ocean liner. If you're on that ocean liner, you're saved. And no matter what you do on that ocean liner, no matter how you. Your morality fails, you're saved.

[Bob Wilkin]

You can get drunk every night at the bar on the ocean liner and you're okay.

[Bob]

But if you jump off the ocean liner and you're not in it anymore.

[Bob Wilkin]

Wow. Yeah.

[Bob]

Then you're not saved anymore. And so Luther at least, and of course, Luther had different theology. There was an early Luther and a later Luther in terms of his theology.

[Bob Wilkin]

Same with Calvin.

[Bob]

Right, Right. And so I think early Luther would have said, no, no, if you believe you're secure forever, even if you committed.

[Bob Wilkin]

Apostasy, even if you jump off the boat.

[Bob]

Even if you jump off the boat. But later, Luther and Lutherans. Today, at least my understanding, there's different flavors of Lutheran. But my understanding is most Lutherans would say, okay, you're saved once and for all. Eternal security is true. Unless you stop coming to church. If you stop partaking of communion and you stop being a part of our local assembly, well, then you're going to go to hell because you jumped off the ship.

[Bob Wilkin]

I just find that a strange view, you know. But it is in these five warning passages. The view that Bob and I have, and it's the biblical view, by the way it is, is that this is not talking about the lake of fire. The warning passages are not threatening people, for lack of a better word, with going to hell.

[Bob]

They are threatening people. But it's about fire here and now. If you look at 1026-31, he talks about a fiery judgment, right? But it says the Lord will judge his people, right? And he talks about the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified. Clearly, the author of Hebrews is warning believers. Maybe we should look briefly at Hebrews 6, 4, 8, because I think this passage crystallizes the issues real clearly in just these five verses.

[Bob Wilkin]

And as we look at these warning passages, and specifically here in chapter six, we need to remember in chapter three what he calls his readers, therefore, holy brethren. He calls them holy brethren. And as Bob already just mentioned, they have been sanctified by the blood of Christ once and for all. So these are believers that he's talking to. And in chapter three he goes, you have a heavenly calling. What is the heavenly calling?

[Bob]

Yeah, to rule and reign with Christ in the life, to be his metikoi, his partners in the life to come. You have a commentary on Hebrews, right?

[Bob Wilkin]

He's writing to believers and he knows you can't lose. But they have this heavenly calling, as you said, to reign with Christ. Well, if you deny him and fall away, you're going to lose that. Plus in chapter 10 that you quoted, you're going to come under the fiery judgment or discipline of God in this life. In this life. So both those things are true.

[Ken Yates]

You are invited to subscribe to the Grace Evangelical Society's YouTube channel. You will find our Monday, Wednesday and Friday videos there, enlightening and encouraging and even probably humorous at times. If you like, like Bob Wilkins humor, indeed, you will get biblical truth about free grace themes like faith alone for eternal salvation and why the Grace evangelical society is zero point Calvinistic. We come your way three times a week at the Grace Evangelical YouTube channel. Check it out and tell a friend about the Grace Evangelical Society Bob mentioned.

[Bob Wilkin]

There's five warning passages, one in chapter two, one in chapters three and four. And we see one of these warning passages in chapter six starting in verse four.

[Bob]

Yeah. And by the way, I, Howard Marshall, who was an Arminian, so he believed you could lose salvation. But he said verses 4 and 5 of Hebrews 6 are the strongest way you could describe a born again person. He said the five participles used here clearly indicate we're talking about born again people.

[Bob Wilkin]

I, Howard Marshall was absolutely right on this point. He was wrong about losing your salvation. But he was right that this is describing believers in Hebrews 6, 4. For it is impossible for those who were 1 enlightened. Once enlightened, 2 have tasted the heavenly gift, right? 3 made partakers of the Holy Spirit. Number 4, tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and have fallen away. And that word is apostatized.

[Bob]

But those five descriptors, I remember, I heard, stand to saint on this. And he said, tasted here refers to nibbling. They didn't really fully. What is it? Tasted the powers of the world to come. And what's the other? Tasting the heavenly gift.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right.

[Bob]

Well, the heavenly gift is everlasting life.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right, Right.

[Bob]

And he said, they nibbled. And I said, you know, it's funny, Dr. Toussaint, but Gwamai is only used one other time in Hebrews, and it's chapter two, verse nine. And it said, jesus tasted death. Did he just nibble at death? And he said, no, no, in two, nine, he actually fully partook. But he said, here it's different.

[Bob Wilkin]

Oh, so the same author uses the same word, but he means different things.

[Bob]

Which does happen sometimes. I get that. But what he basically went on to say is, we know it's different in six, four to eight, because these people are ending up being sent to hell. And we know born again people can't be sent to hell. So these five descriptors can't be about born again people.

[Bob Wilkin]

See, what he's done, though, is he has concluded that these warning passages are talking about hell.

[Bob]

Right?

[Bob Wilkin]

That's where he starts.

[Bob]

And once he starts there, it forces him to come to an illogical conclusion regarding these five participles.

[Bob Wilkin]

Yeah. And so if you start that these warning passages are talking about hell and you believe, as he said, a believer can't go to hell, then you have to say, okay, he's not talking about believers. Right. I mean, you're forced to do that.

[Bob]

That's what he did. And by the way, Dr. Toussaint was, I would say, at least free grace, friendly. Some of my friends felt he was free grace, but he was certainly inconsistent on this. Now, what about the person? If he falls away, what's going to happen?

[Bob Wilkin]

It says, if he falls away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put him to an open shame.

[Bob]

Okay, so people make the mistake here. And this came up in my dissertation on repentance, because they make the mistake of saying you can't renew them to salvation. Well, repentance isn't salvation. Right. Basically, what it's saying is it's humanly impossible to turn them back to Christ. Now, Hodges argues in his commentary on Hebrews that God could do this. But notice the illustration. James is like a good preacher, and he illustrates in verses 7 and 8 his point. So how about reading 7 and 8?

[Bob Wilkin]

For the earth, which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it and bears herbs, useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessings from God. But if it bears thorns and briars, by the way, notice there's only one field here.

[Bob]

Right.

[Bob Wilkin]

There's not like a believing field and an unbelieving field. There's only one field, and there's two options. It is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

[Bob]

Okay, so the believer is represented by.

[Bob Wilkin]

What, by a field here?

[Bob]

Right. And there's two options for the believer.

[Bob Wilkin]

It can produce good fruit, or it can produce thorns and thistles.

[Bob]

And thorns and thistles, by the way, goes back to Genesis chapter three and the curse on the ground. Lots of commentators point that out. So if we yield cursed fruit, what do we get? We get cursed.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right?

[Bob]

What if we have blessed fruit, what do we get?

[Bob Wilkin]

Well, we got blessings.

[Bob]

Notice he says blessings in verse 7, and he says cursing. When it says near to being cursed, it doesn't mean near to being sent to hell. Judgment right now is about to fall.

[Bob Wilkin]

Just like in Deuteronomy 28, 29, and 30, when there's curses that fall upon the nation of Israel if they rebel against God.

[Bob]

Yeah, that's the blessing and cursing motif in Deuteronomy.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right.

[Bob]

It's several chapters dealing with blessing and cursing.

[Bob Wilkin]

These are your blessings, these are your cursings.

[Bob]

And the same thing as New Testament, right?

[Bob Wilkin]

Yep.

[Bob]

If we follow him, he blesses us.

[Bob Wilkin]

Well, I mean, the Beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount, we talked about that earlier. Blessed are you. You know, here's the bless. Well, we just want to challenge ourselves, everybody. When you read these passages, the author of Hebrews, he's not saying, if you don't stay firm to the end or if you deny the faith, you're going to burn in hell. What he says is, you're going to fall under the curse that sin brings into your life now and the loss of rewards in the world to come.

[Bob]

Right. But he does say in Hebrews 10:10 and 10:14 that the one who has believed in Christ has been perfected, been set apart forever into the family of God. So the author of Hebrews calls them holy brethren. He knows that they've been set apart forever. But he warns them, if they turn back to Judaism, then they're going to reap a fiery judgment here and now.

[Bob Wilkin]

And if you jump off the boat, you're going to get eaten by a shark. But you're still a child of God.

[Bob]

You're still a child of God.

[Bob Wilkin]

All right, Remember, till we meet again.

[Bob]

Keep Grace in Focus.

[Ken Yates]

Read many from our library of thousands of Freedom magazine and journal articles [e-mail] resources. That's faithalone.org did you miss an episode of Grace in Focus that you really wanted to hear? Just come to faithalone.org that's faithalone.org we have all our past episodes right there on the site. Our team is really great about answering questions, comments and feedback. If you've got some, we hope to hear from you. Let me give you our email address so you can do just that. It's radioaithalone.org that's radioaithalone.org well, thank you so much friend for joining us all this week. We are wishing you a very pleasant weekend, some fellowship with other believers at a Bible teaching church. Let's keep grace in focus and we'll see you again on Monday.

[Bob Wilkin]

The proceeding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.