Episode Overview

Podcast: Grace in Focus
Episode: Did Jesus Pay the Penalty For Our Sins? – Part 1
Date: October 27, 2025
Host/Speakers: Bob Wilkin (C), Sam Marr (B)
Theme:
This episode dives deeply into the common Christian belief that Jesus “paid the penalty” for our sins through His death on the cross. Bob Wilkin challenges the standard phrasing and explores what the Bible actually says about the penalty for sin, the purpose of Christ’s sacrifice, and how this impacts doctrines like assurance, atonement, and eternal life from a Free Grace perspective.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Challenging the Common Understanding of “Penalty Paid”

• Bob Wilkin opens with a provocative claim:

  “The short answer is no, he did not pay the penalty for our sins.” (C, 01:33)

• Common Evangelical View:

  • Most Christians believe that everyone is separated from God due to sin, and Christ’s death bridges that separation if one believes.
  • Sam summarizes:

    “…the only way that sin to not separate us from God anymore is for a perfect sacrifice, Christ to be made to pay that price. Now the price is paid. I'm no longer separated from God.” (B, 01:56)

• Bob points out a key inconsistency:

  • Even those who say “the price has been paid” don’t typically mean everyone is now saved; rather, salvation is contingent upon believing.
  • This introduces the concept of “limited atonement,” especially in Calvinism, where Christ’s death only applies to the elect or to those who believe. (C, 02:12–03:29)

2. Scriptural Analysis: What Is the “Penalty” of Sin?

• What does the Bible actually state the penalty is?

  • No verse explicitly says, “the penalty is separation from God.”
  • Sam offers Romans 6:23:

    “The wages of sin are death, and death is characterized as a separation.” (B, 04:26)

• Bob clarifies the meaning of “death” in the Bible:

  • “Death” in scripture most commonly refers to physical death, not separation from God.

    “We die because we're sinners… But death is something that is not taken away by the cross.” (C, 04:33–05:31)

  • Cites Genesis 5 as a litany of physical deaths; stresses that the cross has not removed physical death.

• What about spiritual death?

  • The view that Adam and Eve died spiritually when they sinned is unpacked.
  • Bob presents a dilemma: If they were spiritually alive (or had eternal life) before sinning, and then lost it, that undermines the “once saved, always saved” doctrine.

    “If Adam and Eve were born again before they ate the forbidden fruit, then they were born again after... No, what happened was Adam and Eve were innocent and they were like unfallen angels...” (C, 06:06)

• Bob’s view:

  • Adam and Eve were innocent, not spiritually alive in the sense of possessing eternal life. If they hadn’t sinned, God would have at some point removed their ability to sin – but they never had eternal life pre-Fall. (C, 06:40)

3. Types of Penalties: Divine vs. Governmental

• Illustration from civil penalties:
  • Committing murder under the Law of Moses: death penalty – is that from God or from man?
  • Sam and Bob note that penalties (like death or imprisonment) are both natural consequences and divinely sanctioned through government. (C, 09:41–10:28)

4. The Word “Penalty” in the Bible

• Scarcity of the term “penalty”
  • The word is very rare in the Bible, and only appears once in the NT:

    “In Romans 1, homosexual men are receiving in their own bodies the penalty for their sin… So is that penalty taken away by the blood of Christ? The answer is no.” (C, 10:27–11:00)

  • Bob argues that the blood of Christ doesn’t remove earthly or government-imposed consequences.

5. What Did the Cross Actually Accomplish?

• Christ’s death made salvation possible by removing the “sin barrier.”

  • John 1:29:

    “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. He makes us saveable... The cross bridges that gap. But here's the problem. You're dead. You need life.” (C, 11:00)

• The true focus, from a Free Grace perspective:

  • People aren’t told to “deal with their sins” through turning from sin or reforming their life; Christ has already dealt with the sins.
  • The only thing left:

    “The way to get that life is simply believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you have everlasting life that you can never lose.” (C, 11:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The short answer is no, he did not pay the penalty for our sins.” — Bob Wilkin (C, 01:33)
• “When Paul says in Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death, he's talking about all of us… But death is something that is not taken away by the cross.” — Bob Wilkin (C, 04:33–05:31)
• “If Adam and Eve were born again before they sinned and then they lost their eternal life and died spiritually… That doesn’t fit with once saved, always saved.” — Bob Wilkin (C, 06:06)
• “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. He makes us saveable.” — Bob Wilkin quoting John 1:29 (C, 11:00)
• “The way to get that life is simply believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you have everlasting life that you can never lose.” — Bob Wilkin (C, 11:52)
• “I think it's a much talked about discussion and a very misunderstood topic in Christianity.” — Sam Marr (B, 12:05)

Key Timestamps

• 01:33 – Bob Wilkin: “No, he did not pay the penalty for our sins.”
• 02:12–03:29 – Critique of “limited atonement” and common atonement models
• 04:26–05:31 – Discussion of “death” as the wages of sin—physical vs. spiritual death
• 06:06–06:40 – Comment on Adam and Eve’s spiritual status pre- and post-Fall
• 09:41–10:28 – Penalties for sin: Is earthly punishment from God?
• 10:27–11:00 – “Penalty” in the Bible; consequences not removed by the cross
• 11:00–11:52 – Bob explains Free Grace perspective: sin barrier removed, life gained by faith
• 12:05–12:33 – Sam remarks on the widespread misunderstanding of this topic

Tone & Style

Bob and Sam engage in an in-depth yet conversational theological discussion. Bob challenges conventional language with firm, biblical arguments, while Sam represents the common view and offers questions that tease out Bob’s points. The tone is analytical, thought-provoking, and focused on biblical precision, yet approachable for listeners familiar with Christian theological debates.

Conclusion & What’s Next

The episode closes with the promise of a follow-up part, noting that the question is frequently asked and the conversation will continue to clarify what the cross truly accomplished according to the Free Grace view.

Coming up:

• Further exploration of what Christ’s death did and did not accomplish
• More discussion on biblical atonement and its implications for assurance and evangelism