C (3:08)

Yeah, I would see it differently. I would say the context makes it very clear that this is only part of the work, but this is part of the art and science of interpretation, or it's also called exegesis or hermeneutics. So let me point out a few things. First of all, verses 5 through 15 are dealing with the judgment seat of Christ. He starts in these verses talking about Paul himself and Apollos. So he's using them as examples, and he calls them wise master builders. Then he talks about the gold, silver, precious stones, the wood, hay, straw. Wood, hay and straw are not bad works. They're works that lack eternal value. So that would include bad works that were burned up, but it would also include things like hunting, fishing, golfing, playing tennis, you know, watching sports on tv, recreation, maybe skiing. But it really doesn't have eternal value, or it has very small eternal value. That's the way I would understand that. And when he gets to verse 15, he's talking about if any of the work of Paul or Apollos or anyone like them, any master builder, is burned up, he will be healthy at the judgment seat of Christ, even though some of his work is burned up, because he has all of this gold, silver and precious stones that weren't burned up. You see, if it was all burned up, how would he be healthy at the judgment seat of Christ? I assume that EC is interpreting saved in verse 15 to refer to getting into the kingdom.

B (4:56)

It's unclear, but he's probably not thinking in terms of you are of healthy appearance at the person's seat.

C (5:02)

Okay, so here's a question I have for EC or any of you that would agree with his interpretation. What does Ephesians 2, 9 say? As far as when we were saved?

B (5:12)

It's already been done for by grace.

C (5:14)

You have been saved. Now, what is the verb tense in 3:15 future? Okay, so he will be saved. Isn't he already saved? He is in one sense. In one sense, but not in the sense of being spiritually healthy at the bema. You can't be spiritually healthy at the bema unless you're at the bema, the judgment seat of Christ. You can be spiritually healthy. Now, First Corinthians 15:2 talks about that as long as we hold fast to Paul's gospel. But if we let go of the good news of Jesus, death and resurrection, and our resurrection, and the fact that our labor in the Lord is not in vain, first Corinthians 15:58, then we won't be healthy at the bema. Read verses 16 and 17, which a lot of people don't realize are part of this context.

B (6:07)

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are okay, now all.

C (6:18)

This is corporate in 16 and 17. And he's talking about the church, the body of Christ, and he's talking about the church in verses five through 15 too. What he's saying is if you build up the church, if you're a wise master builder of the church, then you're going to hear, well done, good and faithful servant. You're going to be healthy at the Bema. First Corinthians 3:15 but if you tear down the church, if you're seeking to hinder the ministry of your local church and the leadership of the local church, then God's going to judge you here and now, and you're going to reap consequences in this life. And if you continue in that, you'll reap negative consequences. At the judgment seat of Christ. All believers are eternally secure. But EC is acting like the passage ends in verse 15. No, verse 15 ends the discussion of the wise master builder, the overcomer, to use the language of First John and Revelation 2 and 3. But verses 16 and 17 is still talking about believers and it's talking about if a believer is defiling and hurting the local church.

A (7:31)

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C (8:06)

I was talking to a pastor from Washington State. A mutual friend of ours had come down with a very serious disease and he told me he was convinced that was because of the fact that the pastor actually helped split a church. He went out of his way actually to split the church. And I was like, this could be God's judgment. But First Corinthians 3, 16 and 17 isn't teaching that because that's talking about our physical bodies. That's saying if we defile our bodies with things like smoking or excess drinking, then God's going to destroy us. And he said, no, no, no, no, no. Look at the context 5 through 17. So I called up Zayn Hodges and I said, zane, what do you think? And he said, well, it's true that later in first Corinthians he says our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. But here he's clearly talking about the local church in 5 through 17. And he said, you can't divorce 16 and 17 from 5 through 15. If a person destroys God's church, if they go out of their way to divide a church, it's quite possible that some illness they then experience is a result of God's discipline in their lives. So what's the evidence that verse 15 is not saying all their works are burned up? Well, first of all, not all of Paul's works are going to be burned up. I'm sure EC wouldn't say that. And he's talking about himself. Not all of Apollos's works are going to burned up. And he's talking about Apollos and he's talking about any wise master builder. There's no such thing as a wise master builder that's going to have all their works burned up. Secondly, you've got the issue that saved here doesn't refer to getting into the kingdom that's already guaranteed for us. This future salvation is only guaranteed if we continue as a wise master builder, as verses 16 and 17 say. If Paul later started destroying churches, well then Paul would not be healthy at the judgment seat of Christ. The implication here is you must continue in this until the end of your life. Because we know Paul said in second Timothy 2:12, if we endure, we shall also reign with him. And there are many verses like that in Scripture. So even though a person who is currently a wise master builder, they must remain that in order to be spiritually healthy at the bema. Another example is First Corinthians 5:5, where he turned someone over to Satan for the destruction of his fleshly inclinations that his spirit might be saved in the day of Christ Jesus Christ. Well, that's being spiritually healthy at the judgment seat of Christ because he had to be persevering in godliness. And the same thing in First Corinthians 15:2 where he says, by which you are being saved, present tense, present passive. If you hold fast the word which I preach to you. Well, obviously we're already saved in the sense of having eternal life. But he's talking there about being spiritually healthy. So yeah, I would argue that verse 15 is talking about reward. To be saved at the judgment seat of Christ is to be spiritually healthy. I'm fairly sure that EC is taking this as referring to the Judgment seat of Christ. If he thinks this is referring to the Great White Throne Judgment, then he's got it all wrong, because no believers are going to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.

B (11:35)

Yeah, I think he's in the right spot. I think he just didn't have the same framework that you had. The anyone. There is the same anyone in 14 and 15.

C (11:44)

I'm very sympathetic with the fact that we're not saved by our works, that it's not of works, lest anyone should boast. I get that. But that's not the same as saying we need to argue there are some believers that have absolutely zero good works. If we're in the image of God, then even the unbeliever is going to be showing love to their children, love to their parents. Didn't Jesus say that even a father's going to give his son what his son needs and what his son asks for? All fathers are going to do that. So I would expect that at the Great White Throne Judgment, unbelievers are going to have good works. It says their works are judged. There's nothing that indicates all their works will be evil. So we don't need to say there will be believers with zero good works in order to know for sure that our salvation from eternal condemnation has zero to do with us earning or gaining or maintaining everlasting life.

B (12:42)

Hope that helped answer your question. Nisi Check out that blog by Bob on faithalone.org, it's called are some Believers Fruitless? And let's all keep grace in focus.

C (12:51)

Thanks.

A (12:55)

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