Grace in Focus Podcast Summary

Episode Title: How Are People Changed When They Believe for Everlasting Life?
Hosts: Bob Wilkin & Sam Marr
Date: February 2, 2026
Duration: ~13 minutes

Episode Overview

In this concise, thought-provoking episode of Grace in Focus, hosts Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr tackle a deep theological question posed by a listener named Ruth: What happens inside a person at the moment they believe in Christ for everlasting life? Specifically, they explore whether a believer is instantly and fundamentally changed, and what it means to be “a new creation” as referenced in 2 Corinthians 5:17. The discussion thoughtfully teases apart justification and sanctification, emphasizes the role of the Holy Spirit, and warns against common misunderstandings that can undermine assurance of salvation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Happens When We Believe? (01:07–01:55)

• Ruth’s question centers around 2 Corinthians 5:17 and asks:
  • Do believers immediately receive the Holy Spirit?
  • Is there an instant change within the person; does one become a “new creation”?
• Sam Marr references Lewis Sperry Chafer’s claim that 33 things happen at the moment of belief—including receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated, justified, granted citizenship in heaven, and becoming a child of God.
• While agreeing there are many transformation-related truths, Sam raises concerns about the implication that there’s an automatic and observable “change of life” at the moment of faith.

2. The Meaning of “New Creation” in 2 Corinthians 5:17 (01:55–06:41)

• Bob Wilkin reads the verse:
  “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. Old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” (03:09)
• The hosts highlight a common misreading: assuming “new creation” means total immediate visible personal transformation.
  • Bob explains how this flawed view can erode assurance if believers don’t experience instant drastic change (e.g., struggles with addiction or besetting sins continue).
  • Sam provides an example from a recovering alcoholic’s perspective:

    “If I thought that somehow becoming a Christian meant that instantly I was changed, I would say, I guess I’m not born again. Because it took me a long time to quit drinking after I came to faith.” (04:39)

• They note that “he is” is in italics in some Bibles, suggesting the original Greek reads more like “If anyone is in Christ, [there is] new creation.” Some translations support this broader, cosmic sense.

3. The Context: A New World and a New Perspective (06:41–09:38)

• The context of Paul’s statement isn’t about the instant moral transformation of individuals, but about entering a fundamentally new reality—a new world order:
  • Believers are called to view people not “according to the flesh” but as either possessing or lacking eternal life.
  • “We don’t really care about their ethnicity or their language or anything else, because they’re our brother or sister in Christ.” (07:43)
• Sam Marr:

  “Everything changes because we’re part of a new world… although we’re part of a new world order, that new world order isn’t here yet. In other words, when Jesus returns, then it’s going to be inaugurated.” (08:37)

4. Sanctification, the Mind of Christ, and Christian Growth (09:38–11:52)

• The “new creation” idea relates more to sanctification (the process of becoming more Christlike), not a completed event at conversion.
• Bob Wilkin:

  “There’s not ever going to be a point in your life where… now I understand it the way Christ does.” (09:53)

• Sam Marr discusses 1 Corinthians 2:14–16:
  • Spiritually minded believers (“pneumatikoi”) can have the mind of Christ, but this is a process—imperfect and ongoing, boosted by spiritual growth and maturity.
  • Full knowledge and transformation await glorification.

5. Assurance, Capability, and Growth—Answering Ruth’s Question (11:04–11:52)

• Bob Wilkin (summarizing):

  “When someone believes in Christ for everlasting life, they receive the Holy Spirit. The fact that we have the Holy Spirit in us is what gives us the opportunity to be spiritually minded, have the mind of Christ. … It’s not guaranteed, it’s not automatic, but it is still a change within a believer. Because that wasn’t possible for you before.” (11:04)

• Sam Marr:

  “We have new capabilities. We didn’t have that before, we have it now. … But as you said, it’s not automatic, it’s not instantaneous.” (11:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sam Marr (on change at conversion):

  “If you are born again, then you are different, your life is different. And what this leads to—a misunderstanding of 2 Corinthians 5:17—leads to people not knowing their eternal destiny.” (02:13)

• Bob Wilkin (pastoral story):

  “I’m a recovering alcoholic. … If I thought that somehow becoming a Christian meant that instantly I was changed, I would say, I guess I’m not born again. … I struggle with that on a daily basis. … Everything didn’t become new for me all at once.” (04:26)

• Sam Marr (on identity in Christ):

  “Since I’m a believer and you’re a believer, we’re brothers in Christ, and so everything changes because we’re part of a new world.” (08:10)

• Bob Wilkin (practical implication):

  “Now that you have been reborn, you have life, you have the Spirit in you. That’s what allows us to start on that journey … It’s not guaranteed, it’s not automatic, but it is still a change within a believer.” (11:24)

• Sam Marr (on ongoing growth):

  “Once we attain spiritual status, it doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed we’ll stay there. … So it’s vital that we apply what God has given us, that we do utilize our capabilities well.” (12:30)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:07 — Introduction, episode framing
• 01:07–01:55 — Ruth’s question and overview of “33 things” at salvation
• 01:55–03:19 — Read and discuss 2 Corinthians 5:17, potential for misunderstanding
• 03:19–06:41 — Personal anecdotes, assurance issues, translation nuances
• 06:41–09:38 — Context of “new creation”: community, perspective, eschatology
• 09:38–11:04 — Mind of Christ, sanctification, partial vs. complete change
• 11:04–12:53 — Directly answering the question: what really changes, responsibility for growth

Conclusion

Main Takeaway:
At the moment of faith in Christ, believers receive the Holy Spirit and are granted new spiritual capabilities—but immediate and total outward change is not guaranteed or automatic. The “new creation” refers to entering a new reality with new spiritual resources and relationships, not to instant moral perfection or transformation. Growth, sanctification, and maturity are lifelong, Spirit-empowered processes.

The episode invites listeners to rest assured in the promises of the gospel while actively embracing their new capabilities in Christ—and to see other believers first and foremost as family, not by the flesh.

For more in-depth resources or to engage with further questions, the hosts encourage visiting faithalone.org.