Grace in Focus Podcast Summary

Episode: Introduction of the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls Judgments in Revelation
Hosts: Bob Wilkin & Phillipe Sterling
Date: December 10, 2025
Duration: 13 minutes

Episode Overview

In this fast-paced episode, Bob Wilkin and Phillipe Sterling introduce the three central sets of judgments in the book of Revelation: the Seals, the Trumpets, and the Bowls. They discuss their chronological unfolding during the tribulation period (Revelation 6–19) and delve into key theological concepts, interpretive issues, and memorable teaching tools to help cement these difficult prophetic themes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Structure of Tribulation in Revelation

• The tribulation judgments are found in Revelation chapters 6–19 (not 4–19 as is sometimes thought).
  • [01:15] Phillipe: “A lot of people think it’s Revelation 4 through 19, but it’s really 6 through 19, isn’t it?”
• The action begins with a sealed scroll, held by God the Father and given to the Lamb (Jesus), the only one worthy to open it.
  • [01:34] Phillipe humorously clarifies: “We’re not talking about the seals that are on the beach and they're clapping... but the seal that a monarch would put on a letter or a decree.”

The Scroll and Who Can Open It

• The concept of the seven-sealed scroll: one scroll with seven seals, all needing to be broken.
  • [01:56] Bob: “In this case it would be one scroll. But there are seven seals associated with this one scroll that is given by God the Father to the Lamb.”
• Only the Lamb (Jesus) is worthy to open the seals (Revelation 6:1).
  • [02:09] Bob: “Yes, the only one who can. Initially, John thought there was no one there that qualified to open the seal.”

“Come and See”: Scriptural Echoes

• Phillipe notes the phrase “come and see” occurs in both Revelation and the Gospel of John, linking themes of Jesus’ authority.
  • [02:38] Phillipe: “What’s interesting about ‘come and see’ is that occurs in John chapter one... But it’s the Lord Jesus is the one who has the authority.”

Heavenly Authority and Already/Not Yet Theology

• Setting: Chapters 4–5 describe a heavenly scene; the action of judgment starts with the receiving and unsealing of the scroll.
  • [03:08] Bob: “Then the authority to pull forth his wrath and to reclaim his rule over all creation, over the earth begins with the Father giving the seven sealed scroll to the Lamb.”
• The conversation addresses “already/not yet” theology—whether Jesus is already reigning or not.
  • [03:20] Phillipe: “There’s a lot of theologians today that say Jesus is already reigning... I remember we had Stan Toussaint speak at our conference... he said, ‘the kingdom is not now. And the kingdom is not now. Not yet. Not now.’ You can’t say it’s already here. Not yet. There’s a logical contradiction.”
• The hosts clarify: the kingdom’s arrival is after these judgments.

How the Judgments Unfold: Seals, Trumpets, Bowls

• There are three escalating series of judgments:
  • Seals → Trumpets → Bowls
• Each series worsens in severity.
  • [04:29] Phillipe: “...they get progressively worse. In other words, the sealed judgments, as bad as they are, aren't as bad as the trumpet judgments. And those aren't as bad as the bowl judgments.”

Memory Tools: Remembering the Order

• Phillipe offers mnemonics to recall the correct order:
  • His last name, “Sterling,” stands for “S” (Seals) and “T” (Trumpets); Bob’s first name for “B” (Bowls): “Sterling... and the ‘B’ for the bowls.” [05:26]
• A vivid mental image: a seal blowing a trumpet, and bowls coming out of the trumpet.
  • [06:24] Phillipe: “Imagine a seal... that’s blowing a trumpet. So it’s seal, trumpet. And out of the trumpet instead of sound coming out, there are bowls popping out of the trumpet... Seals, trumpet, bowls.”

The Progression and Intensity of Judgment

• The 7th seal contains the 7 trumpets; the 7th trumpet contains the 7 bowls.
  • [06:55] Bob: “Introduces the seven trumpets...”
  • [06:58] Phillipe: “Seventh trumpet introduces the seven bowls.”
• The last bowl judgment is devastating: massive upheaval, catastrophic hail, total destruction immanent.
  • [07:17] Bob: “Every mountain is flattened, every valley is raised up... each hail stone weighs a talent—75 pounds.”

The Need for Judgment’s Limitation

• The destruction will be so severe that if not cut short, no one would survive.
  • [08:05] Bob: “If those days had not been shortened, no flesh shall remain alive.”
  • [08:12] Phillipe: “...for the elect’s sake, those days were short. And the elect there, contra the Calvinist, does not refer to the church... refers to Israel.”
• Jewish and Gentile survivors: To fulfill Old Testament prophecy, believing Jews and Gentiles in natural bodies must enter the Millennial kingdom.
  • [08:33] Phillipe: “You have to have Jews that go into the millennial kingdom in natural bodies in order for the nation of Israel to grow... and the same thing with the gentile nations.”

The Seals Introduced: The Four Horsemen & Martyrs

• First four seals: The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
  • [09:23] Bob: “The four horsemen of the Apocalypse... the one on the white horse that goes out to conquer... the others, that’s death and famine...”
• The identity of the rider on the white horse: some say the Antichrist, some say Christ.
  • [09:53] Phillipe: “It’s popular for people to take that to refer to the beast or the man of sin.”
  • [09:58] Bob: “That’s a predominant view among dispensation premillennialists that it refers to the beast. But... I think that is Christ and the comparison is to the white horse that he rides in Revelation.”
• Fifth seal: The souls of martyrs under the altar, asking for justice, told to wait a little longer while God’s plan is fulfilled.
  • [10:55] Bob: “The souls under the altar... those are the martyrs of the tribulation period who ask the Lord, how long before you avenge our death?... it’s all going to happen very quickly during that 70th week.”

The 144,000 and Global Evangelism

• Sixth and seventh seals: 144,000 Jewish evangelists sealed; a vast multitude from every nation is saved.
  • [11:19] Phillipe: “The 144,000 are Jews, 12,000 from each tribe... probably evangelists... telling people about Jesus and the coming kingdom.”
• This fulfills Jesus’s prophecy that the gospel of the kingdom will go to the whole world—not a task fulfilled in the church age, but during the tribulation via the 144,000.
  • [11:52] Philippe: “The good news of the kingdom is going to go all over the planet from these 144,000.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the seriousness of judgment:
  • Bob [07:17]: “…Every mountain is flattened, every valley is raised up, there’s hail coming down. Each hail stone weighs a talent—75 pounds.”
• On theological debates:
  • Phillipe [03:39]: “I remember we had Stan Toussaint speak at our conference... he said, ‘the kingdom is not now. And the kingdom is not now. Not yet. Not now.’ You can’t say it’s already here. Not yet. There’s a logical contradiction.”
• On teaching tools:
  • Phillipe [06:24]: “Imagine a seal... that’s blowing a trumpet. So it’s seal, trumpet. And out of the trumpet instead of sound coming out, there are bowls popping out of the trumpet... Seals, trumpet, bowls.”
• On biblical prophecy’s fulfillment:
  • Phillipe [11:52]: “Remember that Jesus had said before the kingdom comes, the good news of the kingdom... is going to go forth to everyone... that’s actually referring to the tribulation.”

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:15] – Defining scope of the Tribulation and the opening of the scroll
• [02:26] – Christ as the only one worthy to open the seals
• [03:20] – Theological discussion: already/not yet view of Jesus’ kingdom
• [04:29] – Progression and severity of judgments (seals, trumpets, bowls)
• [05:26] – Mnemonic for remembering the order
• [06:24] – “Seal blowing a trumpet with bowls coming out” teaching image
• [07:17] – Ultimate devastation of last bowl, apocalyptic imagery
• [08:05] – Matthew 24, why the days are shortened
• [09:23] – The Four Horsemen, start of the seal judgments
• [10:55] – Fifth seal: souls of martyrs under the altar
• [11:19] – 144,000 Jews and the worldwide spread of the gospel during the tribulation

Conclusion

Wilkin and Sterling lay the groundwork for an eschatology series by introducing the pattern and progression of the end-times judgments in Revelation. They clarify common interpretive issues, offer memorable learning devices, and preview deeper discussions to come in future episodes. The episode is approachable, filled with biblical references, and punctuated by their characteristic humor and clear teaching style.

Next Episode Preview:
The series will continue by exploring the first four seal judgments (Four Horsemen) in detail.