Revelation 6:1-8 – The Four Horsemen and The First Four Seal Judgments

Summary

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Grace in Focus Podcast

Episode: Revelation 6:1-8 – The Four Horsemen and The First Four Seal Judgments

Date: December 11, 2025
Host: Bob Wilkin with Philippe Sterling and Sam Marr
Duration: ~13 minutes

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Episode Overview

This episode continues Grace in Focus’s series on eschatology, focusing on the first four seal judgments described in Revelation 6:1-8—famously known as the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Bob Wilkin, Philippe Sterling, and guest Sam Marr examine differing interpretations: Are these horsemen allegories, demonic entities, or do any represent Jesus Himself? The discussion also touches upon the connections between Revelation’s apocalyptic symbols, the tribulation timeline, and how views impact Free Grace Theology's approach to scripture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Four Horsemen

• Context: The Four Horsemen appear as the first four seal judgments at the onset of the tribulation period (00:50).
• Philippe Sterling: Reviews that the first four seals correspond to the famous "Four Horsemen": white, red, black, and pale/green.
• Sam Marr: Raises the broadly familiar cultural image: “Even if he's never read the Bible, he’d probably say, ‘oh yeah, it’s white horse, red horse, black horse, maybe green horse for pale horse, famine or something.’” (01:30)

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2. Who is the Rider on the White Horse?

• Debate: Is the identity of the rider on the white horse (first seal) Jesus Christ, or “the man of sin” (often interpreted as the Antichrist)?

• Viewpoints Presented:

  • For Jesus:
    • Bob Wilkin: “The argument for it being Jesus is that he was given to go and conquer. ... In Revelation 19 he’s wearing many crowns.” (03:03)
    • Noted that Zane Hodges and John Claes support this view.
  • For Antichrist/Man of Sin:
    • Sam Marr: Raising logical issues with Jesus being the first rider, asks, “If Christ is the first horseman, how could 2, 3, and 4 be fallen angels or demons? It wouldn’t make sense.” (02:14)
    • Philippe Sterling acknowledges holding this position: “I think, hold that this rider on the white horse is actually the man of sin.” (03:35)
    • Bob: “That’s the way a lot of prophecy teachers have taken it over the years.” (03:43)

• Memorable Moment:

  • Sam Marr, comparing interpretive challenges and pointing out literary links:
    “John Claes points out in his commentary, this is the only other location where we see a person with a crown on a white horse [other than Jesus in Revelation 19].” (03:50)

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3. Analysis of the Second, Third, and Fourth Seals

• Second Seal: Red Horse (War)

  • Rider takes peace from the earth; people kill each other; given a "great sword".
  • Bob explains: “He’s stirring up people to go to war...great bloodshed.” (04:50)

• Third Seal: Black Horse (Famine)

  • Rider has a pair of scales—symbol of famine/food rationing and extreme inflation.
  • Bob: “Many will die out of starvation, which usually follows wars.” (05:37)

• Fourth Seal: Pale Horse (Death/Hades)

  • Rider named “Death”; Hades follows, given authority to kill a fourth of the earth with sword, famine, plague, and wild beasts. (06:38)

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4. Literal vs Symbolic: Death and Hades

• Who Are Death and Hades?

  • Sam: Notes unique emphasis—unlike other riders, this one is given a name (“Death”), which is personified. (09:08)
  • “It seems like Death is personified, and he’s killing a fourth of the earth, and then later he’s cast into the lake of fire…after this, there’s going to be no more death, no more Hades, no more famine and war.” (09:08)

• Comparison to Revelation 20:

  • Bob: “We have two different contexts. The context of the Great White Throne judgment and the four seals are two different contexts.” (10:36)
  • Bob clarifies distinctions in usage: “Death and Hades in chapter 20 seem to be referring to the grave and to the spirits that are in Hades, right?” (11:20)

• Philippe’s Imagery:

  • “It’s something like you’ve got this grim reaper that’s killing all these people and Hades is behind him, scooping them all up, taking all their souls into Hades...” (11:00)

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5. Timing of Judgments in the Tribulation

• Timeline Clarification:
  • Philippe: “With the Earth's population approximately 8 billion now, that would be 2 billion people dying at the first three and a half years.” (07:26)
  • Bob: Explains sequence—trumpet judgments usually come later in the first half and into the second half; bowl judgments at the end. (07:52)

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6. Unresolved Interpretive Questions

• Summary of Interpretive Tension:
  • Philippe: “Basically what we’ve done is we’ve left this very muddy. You need to think about this and study this. I’m still of the opinion that this is the Lord Jesus Christ, that these are unfallen angels who are with him. Sam makes a good point that only the fourth one were given name and a description of the person.” (11:51)
  • Emphasizes need for individual study and discernment.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sam Marr [01:30]:
  “Most people are familiar with that concept [the Four Horsemen]. And the majority of Americans, Christian or not, have probably never heard the idea that the white horse is Jesus...if Christ is the first horseman, how could 2, 3, and 4 be fallen angels or demons? It wouldn’t make sense.”

• Bob Wilkin [03:03]:
  “The argument for it being Jesus is that he was given to go and conquer...in Revelation 19 he’s wearing many crowns.”

• Sam Marr [09:08]:
  “If you’re just having a casual reading, it seems like Death and Hades are being personified here...None of the other horsemen are personified, by the way. It’s only this horseman that’s given a name.”

• Philippe Sterling [11:00]:
  “The imagery is something like you’ve got this grim reaper that’s killing all these people and Hades is behind him, scooping them all up, taking all their souls into Hades...”

• Philippe Sterling [11:51]:
  “Basically what we’ve done is we’ve left this very muddy. You need to think about this and study this.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction of Guests and Topic: 00:50
• Identity of White Horse Rider Debate Begins: 01:13 – 03:43
• Reading/Discussion of the Four Horsemen: 02:49 – 06:58
• Analysis of Death and Hades (Fourth Horseman): 06:38 – 11:00
• Parallels with Revelation 20; Symbolic Meanings: 08:12 – 10:53
• Timing of Judgments in the Tribulation: 07:26 – 08:12
• Summary and Call for Personal Study: 11:51 – 12:39

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is thoughtful, conversational, and invites listeners to wrestle with challenging prophetic texts. The co-hosts model respectful dialogue, openly acknowledging disagreements and ambiguities. Rather than pushing a single interpretation, they encourage prayerful, personal study—reflecting the “grace in focus” ethos.

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Listeners interested in further details on judgments beyond the fourth seal are encouraged to tune in to the next episode.

Transcript

[Bob Wilkin]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.

[Host/Announcer]

Hello, this is Grace in Focus. And welcome to our ongoing series about eschatology. Today we are looking at the beginning of the tribulation period, the first four seal judgments and the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. Thank you for joining us. It'll be an interesting time. Grace and Focus is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. Please go to our website and find out more about our free online seminary. And if you are interested, go ahead and go through the quick application process and get ready to study with us soon. And the website for it all is faithalone.org now with today's discussion, Bob Wilken, Phillipe Sterling and Sam Marr.

[Philippe Sterling]

All right, welcome back to Grace and Focus. And we brought Sam Mar in to be a part of our discussion. Philippe, because we were talking about the four horsemen of the Apocalypse and Sam had some definite ideas about this and we hadn't gotten into this very much. We just briefly touched on it. Now, the Four Horsemen are the first four seal judgments, right?

[Bob Wilkin]

Right. 1, 2, 3 and 4.

[Philippe Sterling]

Let's read those verses. And then Sam, I want you to bring in because we were talking about the fact that you had asked when we were talking about it, were we saying that Jesus might be the white horse rider? Right, right. And you said there was a problem with that. What was the problem?

[Sam Marr]

Well, I want to say I'm not an expert on any of this. I'm essentially a man off the street. But I think if you asked a man on the street who the four horsemen are, even if he's never read the Bible, he'd probably say, oh yeah, it's white horse, red horse, black horse, maybe green horse for pale horse, famine or something. So most people are familiar with that concept. And the majority of Americans, Christian or not, have probably never heard the idea that the white horse is Jesus. But then the issue you have, I'm not even against that view. I think it's very possible. But then who are the other three horsemen? Are they unfallen angels, fallen angels, demonic forces? What do they represent? If Christ is the first horseman.

[Philippe Sterling]

Right, because you said if Christ is the first horseman, how could 2, 3 and 4 be fallen angels or demons? And it wouldn't make sense. Right, because now you've got Jesus somehow partnering with fallen angels. Of course, it's not that the horsemen are Jesus and people with him, it's the riders on the horses. Jesus is the white horse rider or he's not. So let's read these verses and then let's go ahead. And Sam, maybe you can read the verses that deal with the first four horsemen.

[Bob Wilkin]

Yeah.

[Sam Marr]

It starts in verse two. And I looked and behold a white horse who sat on it, who had a bow and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

[Philippe Sterling]

Okay. And that may refer to Jesus or it could refer to the man of sin.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right. And the argument for it being to Jesus is that he was given to go and conquer. So is it Jesus ultimately returning to establish his and to conquer all the armies and that he's given a crown. So the point too, in relating it to Revelation 19 is that he's wearing many crowns, a crown. So that's the argument that those who hold that this is Jesus and that will be Zane Hodges and you mentioned John Claes and me against, against you.

[Philippe Sterling]

Two, who both, I think, hold that this rider on the white horse is actually the man of sin. Right. Is that the way you both take it?

[Bob Wilkin]

Yes. And that's the way that a lot of prophecy teachers, you know, to the years have taken it. Yeah.

[Sam Marr]

To your side, Bob. John Clais points out in his commentary, this is the only other location where we see a person with a crown on a white horse. So if this verse was in isolation, if there was only one horseman, then I think everyone would read this and be like, oh, that's Jesus, we've already seen him. Or later we're going to see him on a white horse with a crown. So the issue comes when we get to the next three horsemen. That's where it becomes hard to reconcile, in my view, those two things.

[Philippe Sterling]

So read 2, 3 and 4.

[Sam Marr]

So verse 3, when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, come and see another horse, fiery red went out and it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth. And that people should kill one another. And there was given to him a great sword.

[Philippe Sterling]

And okay, so this second guy is on a red horse and he is going out and people are killing one another as a result of what he does.

[Bob Wilkin]

So that is that he's stirring up people to go to war, you know, against each other and so a great bloodshed.

[Philippe Sterling]

Then that would be an argument that this is not an angel, an unfallen angel, because we might think, why would an unfallen angel cause people to have war, etc. Okay, what about the third one?

[Sam Marr]

Alright, third. He opened the third seal. I heard the living creature say, come and see. So I looked, and behold a black horse. And he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four creatures saying, a quart of wheat for Denarius and three quarts of barley for Denarius and did not harm the oil and the wine.

[Philippe Sterling]

Okay, now this is a bit puzzling here, but first of all, what's the deal with the scales?

[Bob Wilkin]

So there's the idea of famine taking place, the price of commodities, great inflation and great scarcity. So many will die out of starvation, which usually follows wars.

[Philippe Sterling]

And this is black horse rider. So you go from white to red to black. And now we're going to have a fourth one that's on this pale horse.

[Host/Announcer]

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[Philippe Sterling]

Well, Sam, how about the fourth one?

[Sam Marr]

Yep. Verse 7. When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, come and see. So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death. And Hades followed him, and power was given to them over a fourth of the earth to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and. And with the beasts of the earth.

[Philippe Sterling]

Okay, now when it says, let's talk a bit more about death and Hades here in a second. But notice it says power was given to them over a fourth of the earth. Does that mean a fourth of all the people on earth died during this fourth seal judgment?

[Bob Wilkin]

Yeah. So of the first four seals, then. Yes. 25% of the Earth perishes through the wars, through the famine, through the beasts of the earth.

[Philippe Sterling]

Now, by the way, with the Earth's population approximately 8 billion, now, that would be 2 billion people dying at the first three and a half years. And of course, we don't know exactly. Do we know when we get to the second half, which judgment is it that starts. In other words, we go seals, trumpets, bowls. So at what point do we get to the second half?

[Bob Wilkin]

Yeah, usually the trumpets follow towards the latter part of the first three and a half years and perhaps the early part of the second three and a half years.

[Philippe Sterling]

Okay.

[Bob Wilkin]

And then the bowl judgments are typically seen towards the end of that second three and a half years because they're so devastating and wipe out much of the earth.

[Philippe Sterling]

Okay, now, Sam, maybe you could talk about what you were saying about. You've got Death and Hades here. And Death and Hades also occur in Revelation chapter 20, don't they?

[Sam Marr]

They do. And this is where I think the common understanding comes from and where it becomes an issue in Revelation 20, verse 14.

[Philippe Sterling]

And this is called the Great White throne judgment between 11 through 1520.

[Sam Marr]

So in verse 14, it says, Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

[Philippe Sterling]

So Death and Hades are together there, and they're cast into the lake of fire. This is called the second death. So how might that influence our understanding of Revelation 6, where we're talking in verses 7 and 8 about what does it say, the name of the one who sat on this pale horse?

[Bob Wilkin]

So Death. Yeah, Death sat on the pale horse and Hades followed him.

[Philippe Sterling]

So, Sam, what were you saying about that?

[Sam Marr]

Well, if you're just having a casual reading, it seems like Death and Hades are being personified here. None of the other horsemen are personified, by the way. It's only this horseman that's given a name. So it seems like Death is personified, and he's killing a fourth of the earth, and then later he's cast into the lake of fire because he's now being judged for not just this, but presumably all of human history. Death and Hades have been these forces. I think that's the common understanding is the four horsemen represent either four fallen angels, four demons, or four concepts of evil, war, famine, death. And they're gonna have their time to go all out on the Earth for this three and a half years. And then after this, there's gonna be no more death, no more Hades, no more famine and war. So all those things are gonna be done away with. I think that's the common understanding in.

[Philippe Sterling]

That way of thinking. It would be therefore unlikely that the white horse rider would be the Lord Jesus Christ, because then he would be associated with Death and Hades. But, Philippe, even though you hold the view that the white horse rider is the man of sin, you were saying, it's probably not fair to say this is talking about death in Hades. It's really talking about the fourth rider is not death and Hades, it's Death and Hades followed him, which is slightly different than Revelation 25.

[Bob Wilkin]

And here that's the point that we have two different contexts. The context of the great white cone, judgment and the four seals are two different contexts.

[Philippe Sterling]

Right.

[Bob Wilkin]

So the terms death and Hades may be used in a different sense in Revelation 20 than it is used here in Revelation 6.

[Philippe Sterling]

And by the way, here it doesn't say death and hades. In Revelation 20 it says death and Hades with no punctuation in between. But here it says death comma, and Hades followed him. That's different than saying death and Hades. And in fact, you pointed out, Philippe, that the imagery is something like you've got this grim reaper that's killing all these people and Hades is behind him, scooping them all up, taking all their souls into Hades, so they go to.

[Bob Wilkin]

That temporary confinement space till the great white throne judgment. So I think that's how Hades is being in chapter six here. But death in Hades in chapter 20 seem to be referring to the grave and to the spirits that are in Hades, right? That are all experienced their type of resurrection and are judged and their name are not in the book of life. And so they are consigned to the lake of fire.

[Philippe Sterling]

So basically what we've done is we've left this very muddy. You need to think about this and study this. I'm still of the opinion that this is the Lord Jesus Christ, that these are unfallen angels who are with him. Sam makes a good point that only the fourth one were given name and a description of the person. And we're told that Hades is following him. That is an interesting point. But many people, including Sam and Phillipe, hold the view that the white horse rider is actually the man of sin. But I do like John Claes point that this is the only place in Revelation where we have a white horse rider in where he's got a crown. It does make sense that they would both refer to Jesus, but you're going to need to pray about it, think about it and study it. And we've just gotten to the fourth seal.

[Bob Wilkin]

Greece seals seven trumpets and seven bowls to go.

[Philippe Sterling]

So in the meantime, let's all keep grace in focus.

[Host/Announcer]

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[Bob Wilkin]

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