Save Your Life By Losing It? – Mark 8:34-38

Summary

Grace in Focus: "Save Your Life By Losing It? – Mark 8:34-38"

Host: Bob Wilkin
Guest: Ken Yates
Date: September 9, 2025
Duration: 13 minutes

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into one of the so-called "tough texts" in the New Testament, specifically Mark 8:34-38, where Jesus speaks of denying oneself, taking up the cross, and saving one's life by losing it. Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates analyze whether this passage pertains to eternal salvation or, as they argue, relates instead to Christian discipleship, suffering, and eternal rewards. The conversation clarifies commonly misunderstood evangelical interpretations and distinguishes between teachings on justification (salvation by faith alone) and calls to discipleship (costly following and rewards).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Misinterpreting Mark 8:34-38

• Evangelical Jargon and Common Errors
  • The passage is often introduced in evangelistic contexts, misapplied as requirements for eternal salvation.
  • Many preachers teach, "deny yourself, take up your cross, follow Christ in order to be saved," which the hosts argue contradicts John 3:16 and the doctrine of grace.
    • Quote: "They will say, you need to deny yourself...in order to be saved...Instead they say something that contradicts John 3:16." – Ken Yates (02:04)
• Contradiction Highlighted
  • Hosts find it contradictory that salvation is presented as both free and requiring strenuous works.
    • Quote: "It's such a disconnect...they'll say salvation is by grace. It's absolutely free. But you got to take up your cross and deny yourself and lose your life." – Bob Wilkin (02:38)

The Emperor's New Clothes Analogy

• Bob likens popular interpretive errors to the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes," where people refuse to acknowledge an obvious contradiction.
  • Quote: "A lot of people are saying things that make no sense, but there aren't too many people that are saying what they're saying makes no sense." – Ken Yates (03:05)

The Text Is About Discipleship, Not Salvation

• Clear Distinction
  • The passage in Mark is not about obtaining heaven (justification) but about discipleship—following Christ after coming to believe in Him.
    • Quote: "This is a discipleship passage. This isn’t an evangelistic passage." – Ken Yates (05:01)
• Introduction to Rewards
  • Many believers don’t know about eternal rewards; this passage calls them to costly discipleship for reward in God’s kingdom, not initial salvation.
    • Quote: "The Lord is talking about discipleship that leads to rewards and his kingdom." – Bob Wilkin (05:46)

Greek Key: The Word "Life" or "Soul"

• In Mark 8:35-37, "life" and "soul" are the same Greek word (ψυχή, psuchē), and translating them consistently clarifies the passage's meaning.
  • Quote: "All four are the same Greek word...I would say translate all four of them life." – Ken Yates (09:07)
• The focus: How a believer can "save his life"—having abundant, meaningful life now and greater reward in the age to come.

Suffering Precedes Glory

• Denying Self & Taking Up the Cross
  • Drawing from commentary tradition (e.g., John Walvoord), suffering precedes glory; Christ's followers are called to embrace this path.
    • Quote: "What the Lord is teaching here is that suffering precedes sharing in Christ’s glory for those who are the overcomers." – Ken Yates (07:45)
  • The call to "follow" is ongoing, not a one-time event like believing for eternal life.
    • Quote: "Eternal life is something we receive in a moment in time, but not this. This is ongoing." – Bob Wilkin (08:19)

Present and Future Application

• While the "saving" of life has present applications (fullness of life), the verse points most strongly to future reward and experience in Christ's kingdom.
  • Quote: "He’s talking primarily about the life to come, having a fuller, more abundant experience forever." – Ken Yates (10:15)

Warnings Regarding Shame

• Jesus warns disciples that being ashamed of Him will result in Him being ashamed of them at His coming (Judgment Seat of Christ)—a warning to believers, not unbelievers.
  • Quote: "We know that a believer can be ashamed at the coming of the Lord, because 1 John 2:28...Let us abide in him so that when he appears, we may not be ashamed at his coming." – Bob Wilkin (11:01)
• Paul’s statement—"I am not ashamed of the Gospel"—is highlighted as an example of bold discipleship (Romans 1:16).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |---------------|----------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:04 | Ken Yates | "You need to deny yourself...take up your cross...to be saved...that contradicts John 3:16." | | 02:38 | Bob Wilkin | "It's such a disconnect...salvation is by grace. It's absolutely free. But you got to take up your cross..." | | 03:05 | Ken Yates | "A lot of people are saying things that make no sense, but there aren't too many...pointing it out."| | 05:01 | Ken Yates | "This is a discipleship passage. This isn’t an evangelistic passage." | | 05:46 | Bob Wilkin | "The Lord is talking about discipleship that leads to rewards and his kingdom." | | 07:45 | Ken Yates | "Suffering precedes sharing in Christ’s glory for those who are the overcomers." | | 08:19 | Bob Wilkin | "Eternal life is something we receive in a moment in time, but not this. This is ongoing." | | 09:07 | Ken Yates | "All four are the same Greek word. And they should all be translated the same way." | | 10:15 | Ken Yates | "He’s talking primarily about...the life to come, having a fuller, more abundant experience forever."| | 11:01 | Bob Wilkin | "We know that a believer can be ashamed at the coming of the Lord, because first John 2:28..." |

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:56 – Introduction to the “tough text”; the passage and its common use
• 02:04 – Misapplication of the passage in evangelism
• 03:48 – The "Emperor’s New Clothes" analogy
• 05:01 – The passage as discipleship, not evangelism
• 07:31 – Detailed breakdown of "deny yourself, take up your cross, follow me"
• 09:02 – The Greek word for “life/soul” and how translation choices impact understanding
• 10:15 – Application to present and future (“saving your life”)
• 10:33 – The warning about being ashamed and its implications
• 12:15 – Living faithfully means suffering, opposed by the world

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Summary & Takeaways

• Mark 8:34-38 is about discipleship and reward—not the free gift of eternal life.
• Jesus challenges believers to costly, ongoing following, which will result in suffering and, ultimately, in greater reward and fullness of life in the age to come.
• Misreading this passage as a salvation text creates confusion and undermines the biblical doctrine of grace.
• Consistent translation of key terms (“life” instead of “soul”) brings clarity: believers are exhorted to “save” (i.e., not waste) their lives for Christ’s sake.
• Faithful discipleship means aligning with Christ even when it brings suffering or shame in the world’s eyes; the ultimate assessment comes at Christ’s return.

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For further study, the hosts recommend reading commentaries (such as Bob Wilkin’s) and exploring more “tough texts” in seminary or group study contexts.

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Closing Thought:
"Come after me boldly. Follow me—even though it's going to involve suffering." – Bob Wilkin (11:31)

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For information, resources, or to subscribe to their magazine, visit faithalone.org.

Transcript

[Bob Wilkin]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.

[Host/Announcer]

In Mark's Gospel, chapter eight, it talks about saving your life by losing it. Jesus is clearly talking about some pretty heavy works. So could this possibly be about salvation or is it not obviously about something else? Let's talk about it today here on Grace in Focus. Thank you friend for joining us. This is the broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. You can find out more about us at our website and we also have some videos for you to view at our YouTube channel, YouTube Grace Evangelical Society. We release new videos each week similar in content to this broadcast and you can find them at YouTube grace evangelicalsociety. Once again, our website, faithalone.org and now with today's discussion, here are Bob Wilkin.

[Bob Wilkin]

And Ken Yates and we're talking about what's called tough texts. These are part of the course that we offer on a course called Tough Text from the Seminary. So if anyone's interested in talking more about these things and other tough texts, then check it out. This one that we're going to talk about is, well, all of them are pretty famous or well known passages and so is this one. We've all heard the phrase, take up your cross and follow the Lord, deny.

[Ken Yates]

Yourself, take up your cross, follow me, right?

[Bob Wilkin]

And it's in the Synoptic gospels. And the one we're going to discuss is in Mark 8.

[Ken Yates]

And it also has if you save your life, you lose it. If you lose your life for my sake, you'll gain it. What will a man give in exchange for his soul?

[Bob Wilkin]

Right? I mean, this passage of scripture that the Lord teaches here is just full of evangelical jargon. You know, soul savings, saving of his soul. And what does he mean? And with a lot of these tough texts, people think, well, he's talking about how to go to heaven.

[Ken Yates]

I've heard many music groups and I've heard pastors music groups use this to lead into their evangelistic point. And they will say, you need to deny yourself. You need to take up your cross and you need to follow Christ in order to be saved. I've heard pastors use this passage, say the same thing, deny yourself, take up your cross, follow Christ. They don't try to harmonize it with the Gospel of John or with whoever believes in him will not perish, but has everlasting life. Instead they say something that contradicts John 3, 16.

[Bob Wilkin]

I mean, it's such a disconnect. You know, they'll say, like you just said, well, salvation is by grace. It's absolutely free. But you got to take up your cross and deny yourself and lose your life. It's almost like they're blind to what they're saying. They don't see the contradiction.

[Ken Yates]

Remember the story by Hans Christian Andersen, the emperor has no clothes. The emperor gets duped by these two guys who tell him they can weave clothes out of invisible thread and the clothes will be beautiful clothes, but they're invisible. So the guy parades around, we'll say, in boxer shorts. And so he parades around in boxer shorts and everybody is oohing and ahhing because all of his entourage is saying, whipping up the crowd, come on, he's coming. Ooh. And all over his beautiful new clothes. And then some 10 year old boy says, the emperor has no clothes. To me, that's what happens in exegesis or in interpretation. A lot of people are saying things that make no sense, but there aren't too many people that are saying what they're saying makes no sense.

[Bob Wilkin]

And so anybody, I mean, even if you don't listen to this podcast, you know the rest of it, just read mark 8, 34, 38, just read it and try to lay aside any evangelical jargon you've heard and say, is he talking about something that's by grace?

[Ken Yates]

He's not talking about a free gift.

[Bob Wilkin]

He's not talking about a free.

[Ken Yates]

He's not talking about by faith alone.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right.

[Ken Yates]

He's not talking about. Apart from works. He's talking clearly about works.

[Bob Wilkin]

Now. These are heavy duty works.

[Ken Yates]

Denying yourself, taking up your cross and following Christ, that's works.

[Bob Wilkin]

And losing your life.

[Ken Yates]

Losing your life is works.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right.

[Ken Yates]

You know what people end up saying is, well, it's kind of an antinomy. It's kind of something that appears to be contradictory, but it's really not. No, this really is contradictory.

[Bob Wilkin]

And by the way, we've all found ourselves in a situation where we look at something and say, I don't know what it means.

[Ken Yates]

See, that would be fine if people would do that.

[Bob Wilkin]

Yes, sure. Especially if you're a new believer and you've never heard this before. You come to this passage and you go, I don't know what that means, but I know. And we talked about this at the introduction to this series. Well, I know it's not saying I've got to do all these things to make it into heaven, but I don't know what the Lord means.

[Ken Yates]

Right? So when I said that was contradictory. I don't mean the scriptures are contradictory. What I mean is that interpretation is contradictory. Obviously this passage is talking about something different than what Ephesians 2, 8:9 is talking about or what John 3:16 is talking about. This is a discipleship passage. This isn't an evangelistic passage.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right. If you're a believer who's never been taught rewards, and by the way, there's a lot of people in our churches who never heard of rewards. A lot of people I know, in my case, I still remember the first time I heard of Rewards. I was 22 and I'd been a believer for 10 years and I never heard it before. And so, yeah, if you come to a passage like this and you, you don't even know that's an option, it's very likely you're not going to know what the Lord is talking about, because the Lord is talking about discipleship that leads to rewards and his kingdom. Let's look at this passage. It's short enough to where we can read it. It's Mark, chapter eight, starting in verse 34. And when he had called the people to himself with his disciples also, he said to them, so he's talking the disciples there and the people, and obviously among the people there would have been other believers, you know, not just the disciples who are believe. Original 12, right? And he says, whoever desires to come after me, right there, I mean, the first words he says is a ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, Right?

[Ken Yates]

It's not whoever desires to come to.

[Bob Wilkin]

Me or believe in me, right?

[Ken Yates]

But in John's Gospel, to come to Jesus is to believe in him, like John 6:35. But in the synoptics, to come after Jesus is to follow him in discipleship.

[Bob Wilkin]

Which even in English, I'm walking after that person, I'm following after that.

[Ken Yates]

That's my mentor, that's my teacher, that's my rabbi, right?

[Bob Wilkin]

We would say maybe walking in his footsteps or something like that.

[Grace in Focus Announcer]

Just jumping in here to make you aware of our magazine, Grace in Focus. It is a bimonthly, six issues per year, 48 page magazine, full color, and we want you to subscribe by emailing your name and your snail mail address to gesaithalone.org the subscription is free. It can be accessed electronically or it can be actually physically sent to you. If you live in the lower 48 United States. That's our Grace and Focus magazine. Send your name and snail mail address to gesaithalone.org whoever desires to come after.

[Bob Wilkin]

Me, let him deny himself. Okay? Deny himself. What, what does he mean by this?

[Ken Yates]

Well, Peter had just said, no, no, no, you're not going to the cross. We're not going to die. We're not going to suffer. John Walvoord in his commentary on Matthew says, which in the same passage in Matthew 16, 24, 28, he says, what the Lord is teaching here is that suffering precedes glory. And he does make a crystal clear. But the point is suffering precedes sharing in Christ's glory for those who are the overcomers.

[Bob Wilkin]

Okay? And then he says, not only deny yourself, but take up your cross.

[Ken Yates]

Take up and follow me. Because Jesus is taking up his own cross and he just said he was going to die. So he's telling the disciples, you guys are going to die too.

[Bob Wilkin]

And the thing about follow, that's a process.

[Ken Yates]

Yes.

[Bob Wilkin]

Eternal life is something we receive in a moment in time, but not this. That's right. This is something.

[Ken Yates]

This is ongoing.

[Bob Wilkin]

And Luke says, take up your cross daily.

[Ken Yates]

Right?

[Bob Wilkin]

And by the way, Bob, you know this. But there's actually people who will say that eternal life is absolutely free. You get it the moment you believe. And that's what he's talking about here. But it's like, well, wait a second. There's a process. That's a contradiction.

[Ken Yates]

No, exactly. And for the sake of time, I don't think we'll have time to read everything, but let me suggest. I guess we can read it. But just a quick comment. The word life occurs twice in verse 35, and the word soul appears once in verse 36 and once in verse 37. You see that?

[Bob Wilkin]

Right?

[Ken Yates]

All four are the same Greek word.

[Bob Wilkin]

Same Greek word.

[Ken Yates]

And they should all be translated the same way. Either translate all four of them soul or all four of them life. I would say translate all four of them life.

[Bob Wilkin]

Well, verse 35, it's very clear that he's talking about life.

[Ken Yates]

So go ahead and read that one, I guess.

[Bob Wilkin]

Yeah. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it. And whoever loses his life for my sake and the Gospels will save it. And by the way, I don't think there's anybody who doubts that it should be life there.

[Ken Yates]

Right?

[Bob Wilkin]

Nobody doubts that you need to give up your life for me. And obviously that's not something that's free, right? And Bob's absolutely right. Therefore, the next two verses, the word ought to be translated life as well. It should say, for what will it profit a man? This is verse 36. If he gains a whole world and loses his own life? Or verse 37. Or what will a man give in exchange for his life? And even if you just make that simple change there, which anybody can look up in Greek, it's the same word. You don't have to know Greek to see it. You can look at those words, say, yeah, those are the same words. And Jesus is talking about how the believer can save his life.

[Ken Yates]

Right. And we might think he's talking primarily about saving it in the here and now in terms of fullness of life here and now. But in light of the last verse, verse 38, he's talking primarily about the life to come, having a fuller, more abundant experience forever. How about verse 38?

[Bob Wilkin]

Yeah, verse 38. For whoever is ashamed of me and my words and this adulterous and sinful generation. By the way, he's talking to believers.

[Ken Yates]

Yes.

[Bob Wilkin]

Disciples, you can be ashamed of him. Of him? The Son of man also will be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

[Ken Yates]

Yes. Notice this glory that he's coming with, and he's either going to have praise for the believer or shame toward that believer. Right?

[Bob Wilkin]

That's right. We know that a believer can be ashamed at the coming of the Lord, because first John 2:28, John says, Let us abide in him so that when he appears, we may not be ashamed at his coming.

[Ken Yates]

Right. And remember, Paul said, I am not ashamed of the Gospel. Well, why does he say that? It's laetates or understatement. He says, I'm very proud of this message.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right.

[Ken Yates]

But if he were ashamed of it, which is a possibility, well, then the Lord would be ashamed of him at the judgment seat of Christ.

[Bob Wilkin]

Yeah. And so what the Lord is saying to the disciples here is, come after me. Come after me boldly. Follow me.

[Ken Yates]

Even though it's going to involve suffering.

[Bob Wilkin]

And it's going to involve suffering. Right. I mean, he's on the way to Jerusalem. And so if you're going to follow him, he's telling the disciples, what do you think you're going to run into?

[Ken Yates]

Right.

[Bob Wilkin]

Even though we're not in the first century and we're not literally headed to Jerusalem to take up a cross, anybody today who is a believer who remains faithful to the Lord is going to experience suffering and opposition from the world.

[Ken Yates]

Absolutely. And some of that is simply suffering because of the wickedness we see in our world. Like lot. Second Peter 2, we're told that Lot was tormented.

[Bob Wilkin]

His soul was tormented by the world. Right.

[Ken Yates]

By the wickedness he saw. Well, if we're tormented by the wickedness in our world, that's part of suffering for the Lord. But on top of that, if we just stand up for the truth, people are going to criticize us, right?

[Bob Wilkin]

You know, we live in a world that is opposed in every way to the message of eternal life, to the morality that Christ taught and everything. So if you're walking in that path, you're going to experience opposition.

[Ken Yates]

Well, this is a great passage. I really like what you did. And you have a commentary on Mark. So you discuss this in your commentary.

[Bob Wilkin]

We discuss it in the commentary. And we also, again in class will discuss this passage.

[Ken Yates]

Sounds good. And if you don't have Ken's commentary, check it out.

[Bob Wilkin]

Well, great, Bob. Appreciate it. And until next time, keep grace in focus.

[Grace in Focus Announcer]

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[Host/Announcer]

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[Bob Wilkin]

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