Grace in Focus Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: Should Children Be Baptized and Should They Participate in Communion?
Host: Bob Wilkin (Grace Evangelical Society) with Ken Yates
Date: September 15, 2025
Duration: ~13 minutes

Overview

This episode tackles questions sent in by listener Julia regarding whether her 9-year-old, who believes in Jesus for eternal life and has been baptized, should participate in communion. Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates utilize pastoral anecdotes, biblical principles, and Free Grace theology to address the legitimacy of children taking part in baptism and communion, especially in relation to questions of understanding, belief, works, and spiritual maturity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background of the Listener’s Question

• Julia has a 9-year-old son who "believes in Jesus for eternal life" and has been baptized. She seeks guidance about his participation in communion. (01:05)

2. Practices in Conservative Churches: Evidence and Age Requirements

• Anecdote: Shepherd’s Conference/Grace Community Church (John MacArthur’s church)
  • Youth pastors at Grace Community Church do not baptize children until they see enough "good works" as evidence of being born again, often tying this to having reached puberty. (01:29)
  • Example: A pastor baptized his 16-year-old daughter deemed "very godly," but withheld baptism from his 14-year-old son due to "insufficient evidence."
    • "He’d like to be baptized, but we aren't willing to baptize him because there's insufficient evidence." (02:12, Ken Yates)
• Bob Wilkin responds, “Wouldn't it be weird if this boy ends up hearing that his dad is saying I don't see the evidence? Wouldn't that be a bit frustrating?” (02:37, Bob Wilkin)

3. Application of the ‘Fruit Test’ to Adults and Children

• Other churches apply similar standards to adults:
  • Example from Southern Seminary: Hesitating to baptize adults, even if professing belief, if they haven’t shown a change in lifestyle (e.g., someone wrestling with homosexuality or lust) for a year or more. (03:24+, Bob Wilkin)
  • Ken Yates questions whether pastors should quiz new believers about their lifestyle before baptizing—he argues “no.” (04:38)

4. Grace-Oriented Approach to Baptism and Communion

• Sanctification is a process: The church gives new believers time to grow before any church discipline; repentance and holiness are expected long-term but are not prerequisites for baptism or communion. (04:57-06:13)
• Key Principle:
  • “The difference in a kid at least... is do they understand? That’s the difference. When you talk about a 9-year-old... if you believe he understands, ‘I have eternal life in Christ,’ I would say he can be baptized; he can take communion. Sure.” (06:49, Bob Wilkin)

5. Understanding vs. Belief in Children

• Ken Yates introduces the distinction (theological terms: noticia, assensus, fiducia):
  • Noticia: Understanding
  • Assensus: Assent/Belief
  • Fiducia: Faith/trust (repetitive, some theologians say unnecessary)
• Core Criteria:
  • “My problem is not whether they understand, it’s whether they believe... if the person says, ‘yeah, I believe in Jesus, I know I'm going to heaven,’ but they also believe in Santa Claus, they've not yet probably believed because they're just parroting back what they’ve heard.” (07:41-08:44, Ken Yates)

6. At What Age Can Children Genuinely Believe?

• According to Child Evangelism Fellowship, children make the leap from believing in fantasy to understanding reality around age 5, but it may range from 2–10 years old. (09:06-09:17)

7. Faith Alone—Assurance Versus Fruit

• Quoting dialogue with John MacArthur: If salvation is “an adult decision” or requires “making Jesus Lord,” it excludes children, but the Free Grace position says faith alone is sufficient. (09:41-10:25)
• Calvinist parents who withhold judgment on their children’s salvation until adulthood foster unnecessary doubt:
  • “We don't know if our boys... are born again... we don't see enough fruit yet.” (10:25, Yates recounting Calvinist parents)

8. Scriptural Position & Practical Application

• No biblical basis for restricting the Lord’s Supper or baptism based on age or visible fruit.
• Ken Yates: “I would be absolutely appalled by restricting communion or baptism to people who are over a certain age.” (11:33)
• Bob Wilkin: “The bottom line is if someone believes that they have eternal life by faith... you shouldn’t prohibit them from taking communion [or] baptism.” (11:44)

9. Distinguishing Church Leadership from Sacraments

• Eldership requires age and other qualifications, but baptism and communion do not.
  • “It’s one thing to say children can be baptized, they can take communion. It’s another thing to say children can be elders. No, they can't.” (12:01+, Ken Yates)
  • “You can’t make a whippersnapper an elder.” (12:38, Bob Wilkin)

10. Final Recommendation

• Bob Wilkin: “If your 9-year-old believes in Jesus Christ for eternal life, let him take Communion.” (12:52)
• Ken Yates: “Amen.” (12:58)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• "He’d like to be baptized, but we aren't willing to baptize him because there's insufficient evidence. And I thought, wow, wouldn't it be weird if this boy ends up hearing that his dad is saying I don't see the evidence. Wouldn't that be a bit frustrating?" (02:12–02:37, Ken Yates/Bob Wilkin)

• "Do we now quiz them about their lifestyle? And I say the answer is no." (04:38, Ken Yates)

• "The difference in a kid at least... is do they understand?... if you believe he understands, ‘I have eternal life in Christ,’ I would say he can be baptized, he can take communion, sure." (06:49, Bob Wilkin)

• "My problem is not whether they understand, it's whether they believe." (07:41, Ken Yates)

• "I would be absolutely appalled by restricting communion or baptism to people who are over a certain age." (11:33, Ken Yates)

• "If your 9-year-old believes in Jesus Christ for eternal life, let him take Communion." (12:52, Bob Wilkin)

Notable Moments & Illustrations

• Personal stories from conferences and churches that impose fruit-based prerequisites for baptism.
• Discussion of children's cognitive development regarding fantasy and genuine faith.
• Nuanced critique of “fruit checking” before granting baptism/communion.
• Strong emphasis on the sufficiency of faith alone for participation in the sacraments—regardless of age or behavioral evidence.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Listener question from Julia: 01:05
• Shepherd’s Conference/Grace Community Church anecdote: 01:29–03:05
• Adult baptism and lifestyle test discussion: 03:24–04:55
• Key principle—do they understand?: 06:49–07:41
• Distinguishing belief from parroting/age of belief: 07:41–09:17
• Misuse of fruit as assurance in Calvinism: 10:25–11:32
• Scriptural argument against age-based restrictions: 11:32–12:01
• Elders vs. baptism/communion: 12:01–12:41
• Conclusion & final answer: 12:52–12:59

Summary

In this episode, Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates argue from a Free Grace perspective that the decisive factor in baptizing children or allowing them to partake in communion is their genuine belief in Jesus for eternal life, not their age, works, or ability to demonstrate "fruit." There is no biblical warrant for withholding these ordinances until a certain age or evidence threshold is met. Instead, elders and pastors are encouraged to avoid placing additional hurdles beyond saving faith, while reserving church leadership for more mature believers. The episode cautions against “fruit testing,” highlights the sufficiency of simple belief—even in children who truly understand—and offers reassurance for parents and churches seeking biblically grounded, grace-oriented guidance.