Grace in Focus — Episode Summary

Episode Title: What Are Hell and The Lake of Fire Like?

Date: December 3, 2025
Hosts: Bob Wilkin (Grace Evangelical Society), Philippe Sterling
Duration: ~13 minutes

Episode Overview

In this episode, Bob Wilkin and Philippe Sterling dig into the biblical concepts of Hell, Sheol, Hades, and the Lake of Fire, exploring what happens to unbelievers after death according to Scripture. They contrast popular and medieval conceptions of Hell with what is actually taught in the Bible and stress biblical accuracy over speculation or tradition.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Distinguishing Between Sheol/Hades and the Lake of Fire

• Sheol/Hades as Present Abode (01:37-03:19):

  • In the Old Testament, the dead go to Sheol; in Greek, it becomes Hades.
  • Both believers and unbelievers used to go to Sheol/Hades, but into different "compartments."
  • After Christ's resurrection and ascension, believers are now with Christ in "paradise" (i.e., the third heaven).

• Lake of Fire as Future Judgment (01:01-01:44; 05:27-05:53):

  • Unbelievers now await final judgment (the Great White Throne, Revelation 20:11-15) in Hades.
  • Only after this do they enter the Lake of Fire, which is distinct from Hades.

2. Paradise and Its Relocation

• Paradise’s Location Over Time (02:52–04:45):
  • Jesus refers to “paradise” when speaking to the thief on the cross. At first, paradise was a compartment in Sheol/Hades.
  • Post-ascension, paradise is now in the "third heaven" with Christ.
  • Scriptural references: Luke 16 (rich man and Lazarus), 2 Corinthians 12 (Paul’s vision), Revelation 2–3 (the tree of life in the paradise of God).
  • “Paradise” is understood as “an enclosed garden” or place of fellowship with God.

3. The Nature of Torment in Hades and the Lake of Fire

• Psychological vs. Physical Torment (06:08–09:36):

  • The torment described is likely not torture by demons or fire as in medieval depictions, but may be emotional, spiritual, and psychological.
  • Some (e.g., Boa) say it is only psychological; Bob Wilkin believes it is both physical and psychological.
  • Jesus’ comment on “more tolerable” judgment implies different degrees of suffering: “The fact that he even uses the expression more tolerable suggests it will be tolerable for all” (Bob Wilkin, 07:14).
  • The experience is not unbearable but rather, as Bob Wilkin describes, “a painful, tolerable experience, much like people on Earth experience today” (08:40).

• Rejecting Medieval Depictions (08:10–09:36):

  • Traditional imagery (flames, chains, demons with pitchforks) originates from medieval theology and works like Dante’s Inferno, not Scripture.
  • Example: In Luke 16, the rich man is “in torment in these flames,” but does not say he is physically burning.

4. The State and Place of These Realms

• Theories on Location (09:46–10:46):
  • Hades/Sheol traditionally understood as being in the "center of the Earth," possibly a supernatural compartment.
  • The final Lake of Fire may be on another “planet” or realm entirely: “I think it’s probably a planet not in our universe” (Bob Wilkin, 10:36).
  • Bob and Philippe jokingly discuss “lakefront property” as a metaphor for differences in experience among inhabitants, but clarify the seriousness of the judgment (11:00-11:04).

5. Evangelism: Focus on the Promise, Not the Threat

• Gospel Focused on Life, Not Death (11:35–12:41):

  • Jesus, especially in the Gospel of John, did not center his evangelism on threatening people with Hell or Hades.
  • Instead, he offered eternal life as a free gift — “the guarantee of no condemnation.”
  • Suggestion: Preach the positive message of eternal life, not speculation on the afterlife for unbelievers.

• Scriptural Data is Limited (12:41–12:58):

  • “The Bible really doesn’t tell us what Hades is like now, and it doesn’t tell us what the Lake of Fire is going to be like. There’s very little data in the Bible” (Bob Wilkin, 12:41).
  • Encourage careful, ‘Berean-like’ study rather than speculation.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Multiple Compartments of the Afterlife:

  • “Sheol and Hades were the destination of both the believing and unbelieving for a period of time until the resurrection and ascension of Jesus.” — Philippe Sterling (01:44)

• On the Seriousness, Yet Tolerability, of Judgment:

  • “I take it that it is torment, but it’s going to be tolerable. So in my view, a lot of the stuff you talked about is medieval theology.” — Bob Wilkin (08:12)

• On Medieval Imagery:

  • “There’s nothing in Scripture like… flames were coming out of every pore of their skin and they were on fire...” — Bob Wilkin (08:40)

• On the Uncertainty of the Exact Location:

  • “I think it’s probably a planet not in our universe.” — Bob Wilkin (10:36)

• On Evangelism and Assurance:

  • “The focus is just the offer of everlasting life is the focus and not what, not believing.” — Philippe Sterling (11:35)

• On Scriptural Limits:

  • “Most of what people talk about when they talk about hell is actually made up. It’s coming out of medieval guessing and speculation, not coming out of the Bible.” — Bob Wilkin (12:50)

Key Timestamps

• 01:01–01:44: Introduction to the future of unbelievers: Sheol, Hades, the Lake of Fire.
• 02:12–03:19: Distinction between present and future states; Luke 16 and the story of Lazarus and the rich man.
• 03:29–04:27: Paul’s vision of paradise—its location post-ascension.
• 05:27–05:53: Transition from Hades to the Lake of Fire (post-Great White Throne Judgment).
• 06:08–07:14: Nature of torment — psychological vs. physical, levels of “tolerability.”
• 08:10–09:36: Challenge to medieval notions of torment; a “tolerable” but not pleasant experience.
• 09:46–10:46: Theories about the physical “location” of Sheol/Hades and the Lake of Fire.
• 11:35–12:58: Emphasis on the biblical focus in evangelism; Scriptural restraint regarding details about the afterlife for unbelievers.

Takeaways

• The biblical data on Hell, Hades, and the Lake of Fire is limited and should be interpreted with care.
• Much of what people believe about Hell derives from tradition and art, not from direct Scriptural teaching.
• Current and future states for unbelievers (Hades now, Lake of Fire after judgment) are places of “torment” but not the hyperbolic suffering portrayed in pop-culture.
• Evangelism should emphasize the free gift of eternal life rather than threats of post-mortem punishment.
• The podcast encourages listeners to study the Bible directly (“be Bereans”) rather than rely on extra-biblical or medieval speculation.

For further study:

• Revelation 20:11-15
• Luke 16:19-31
• 2 Corinthians 12:1-4
• John chapters 3 and 5

Next Episode Preview: Annihilationism and Universalism: Where do they fit?