Ken Yates (3:16)

Well, it's not quite like that, as you know. You see, Calvinists say they believe in once saved, always saved.

Bob Wilkin (3:24)

Exactly.

Ken Yates (3:25)

But they don't know if they have it.

Bob Wilkin (3:26)

Right.

Ken Yates (3:27)

So if you say everlasting life is everlasting, so why not go out and live like the devil? Well, the reason is because I don't know if I have it. So I've got to keep on keeping on in order to find out if I've got it or in order to ensure I keep it if I'm an Arminian. Right, right. So the idea that everlasting life by itself being secure might lead someone to live like the devil is not really the question. The question is if you, Ken Yates, are absolutely sure that no matter what you do, you are secure forever, you're going to be with the Lord forever. And you know that because of John 3:16. Right?

Bob Wilkin (4:10)

Right.

Ken Yates (4:12)

Well, then why aren't you getting high on cocaine every day? Right. You could, right? Why aren't you getting drunk every day? Why aren't you involved in immorality? Why not go and be involved in a life of immorality? I mean, you could have all kinds of mistresses on the side and things. And pastors do this, right? Some. Now they're not doing it because they think they're eternally secure. They're doing that because they've got some besetting sin in their life and they get duped by ultimately the devil. But we hear this question a lot because people pooh, pooh the idea that simply by believing in Jesus they have eternal life. Right.

Bob Wilkin (4:51)

Let me piggyback on that. What you're saying grace people, that's what we're accused of is if we say, hey, once you have eternal life, you can never lose it. The Calvinist, the Lordship, the Arminian guy is going to say, well, if you tell people that you're going to encourage them to do it, you're going to give them a false sense of assurance and, and they're just going to go out and live like the Devil.

Ken Yates (5:13)

And they call us. They have a special curse name for us. It's called antinomian, from the Greek word namas, meaning law. And they say we're against God's commandments.

Bob Wilkin (5:27)

Right.

Ken Yates (5:27)

That we're actually encouraging people to go out and live like the devil.

Bob Wilkin (5:33)

Yeah. The word they often use is we're promoting. We're promoting sin. That's exactly right. So is that true? If you teach grace and eternal security, are you promoting sin?

Ken Yates (5:46)

See, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if you are someone who believes in work, salvation, or lordship salvation, you are promoting sin. They promote sin because legalism produces sin. Read Romans 7, 13:25. What Paul's talking about there is early in his Christian experience, before he came into contact with some legalists, he was enjoying his walk with Christ and he was experiencing the type of growth that God expected for him. But then he began to focus on the Commandments. Somebody guided him into a fixation on the Commandments, which would have been easy

Bob Wilkin (6:32)

when he was a new believer, to do that because he was a Pharisee right before that.

Ken Yates (6:36)

So he focused on the Commandments. And he said, when I focused on the Commandments, I. I found myself doing the things I didn't want to do. He ends that chapter by saying, wretched man who will deliver me from this mortal body, this body of death. And his answer in chapter eight is what?

Bob Wilkin (6:54)

Walking by the Spirit.

Ken Yates (6:55)

The Holy Spirit is going to enable me to walk in the resurrection power of Christ, overcoming the deadness of my body. Because this body needs renovation. Right. I need it to be glorified day by day. I see that more and more. Second Corinthians 5, 2 and 4 says, we who are in these bodies were groaning, looking forward to the day when our bodies are changed.

Announcer (7:24)

It's coming. It'll be here before you know it. What am I talking about? The Grace Evangelical Society's National Conference 2026, May 18th through the 21st at Camp Kopas, an absolutely beautiful campground in North Tex. Right on the lake with lots of recreation, great food, a great place to stay, wonderful fellowship and wonderful free grace Bible teaching information and online registration now@faithalone.org events. First timers waive registration fees. Faithalone.org events well, both in Romans and

Bob Wilkin (8:00)

in Galatians, when it talks about the works of the flesh, we're talking about legalism, right?

Ken Yates (8:05)

Right.

Bob Wilkin (8:05)

The works of the flesh produce this.

Ken Yates (8:07)

Right. It's not that the deeds of the flesh or to walk in the flesh is someone who is saying, you Know what? I'm going to rebel against God. Just the opposite. It's the person who says, I'm going to really, really follow the command. I'm going to keep a list. I'm going to put it on my mirror. I'm going to put it on my mirror in my car. I'm going to keep it in my pocket. I'm going to check it every five minutes. Right. You do that. That doesn't produce holiness. That produces sin. What I would say is this the position that by faith in Christ, I am absolutely sure that I am secure forever. That promotes holiness.

Bob Wilkin (8:46)

Yeah, you have to start with grace and faith alone. Who I am in Christ. That's where it starts, Godly living.

Ken Yates (8:52)

Well, let me give you an example. I came out of an extreme, sinless perfection holiness cult before I came to faith. I was taught if you committed one sin after you were born again, you lost your salvation and could never get it back. I was taught in that group that this idea that if you believed you were secure, you would go out and live like the devil.

Bob Wilkin (9:16)

Well, sure, it's so common that we

Ken Yates (9:19)

hear this, but when I came to faith, guess what happened? I was pre med. My life was driven toward going to medical school and becoming a doctor. And as soon as I came to faith, my interest in medical school went away. And I decided I wanted to spend the rest of my life telling people about this.

Bob Wilkin (9:39)

And part of that was what Bob ain't going to say is that he was just starting advanced chemistry, so.

Ken Yates (9:44)

That's right. I didn't want to take organic chemistry. That's right. But you know, the thing about it is I found in my experience. Now, experience doesn't prove anything, but all I'm saying is I found in my experience the exact opposite. My longing and desire is to please the Lord Jesus Christ. I long to hear him say, well done, good and faithful servant. I live each day in light of the fact that he's coming again and I'm going to stand before him at the judgment seat of Christ. And the idea that somehow I'm motivated to be an alcoholic. Having grown up in an alcoholic family and seeing the devastation that causes, I don't drink at all. And I could and I believe the Bible actually says a lot of nice things about wine. Right. But since I'm a child of an alcoholic, it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to drink. And the idea of rebelling against God is stupidity. Do I want to be like the prodigal son?

Bob Wilkin (10:44)

Well, that's what when we first started off and you said, well, if we. If we believe, once saved, always saved. Why don't I go out and take drugs? Well, have you seen what a meth person's teeth looks like? I mean, I'm just talking.

Ken Yates (10:56)

You know what they are? They're all messed up.

Bob Wilkin (10:58)

They're all messed up. That's right. I mean, when you look at. Just take the theology out of it. First of all, grace is the greatest motivation to live. That's what we're saying. Grace is the greatest motivation to live a godly life, not to live a sinful life. But even if we just look at it logically, you know, those things you list, why wouldn't I take drugs? Why wouldn't I become a drunk? Well, it's expensive. It'll ruin my life. You know, just. I'm just talking about logically, why not have a bunch of mistresses? Because just look around and see what that does to people's lives.

Ken Yates (11:31)

It ruins your marriage and it ruins your family and you're going to get lots of sexually transmitted diseases and you're going to have lots of turmoil in your life. You're going to be balancing all these relationships.

Bob Wilkin (11:47)

And if you're an important person, you come out on the Epstein list, right? I mean, all kinds of things, you know, so why wouldn't you do that? Because I've got two brain cells.

Ken Yates (11:55)

Yes. It's kind of like, if I'm eternally secure, why wouldn't I break my leg, Right? Well, yeah, I guess I could, but that just doesn't appeal to me. And so why wouldn't I do drugs? Because that doesn't appeal to me. Why wouldn't I be involved in immorality? Because, you see, if you understand reality, right, the way the Bible explains life, then you know that the wages of sin is death. I mean, the wisdom literature, it's horrible for you.

Bob Wilkin (12:23)

Wisdom literature in the New Testament, James or Proverbs in the Old Testament, it's stupid to live that way.

Ken Yates (12:29)

That's right. So.

Bob Wilkin (12:31)

But more importantly, once saved, always saved is biblical. It's what the New Testament teaches. John 5, 24 and so many other verses in the Gospel of John. So anyway, if you're interested in more about this, come to our conference. This will be one of the plenary

Ken Yates (12:46)

sessions and at the conference we're going to keep grace in focus.

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Bob Wilkin (13:45)

The proceeding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.