ADOLESCENCE CREATOR JACK THORNE on Golden Globes, Being an Outsider & the Dark Side of Social Media

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Great Company with Jamie Laing

Episode: Adolescence Creator Jack Thorne on Golden Globes, Being an Outsider & the Dark Side of Social Media

Original Air Date: February 18, 2026
Guest: Jack Thorne (Writer, Creator of "Adolescence", Playwright, and Screenwriter)
Host: Jamie Laing

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Episode Overview

This episode features acclaimed writer Jack Thorne, fresh off his Golden Globe-winning series "Adolescence" on Netflix—a powerful drama exploring the dark side of social media and its damages to younger generations. Jamie and Jack discuss the pitfalls of online culture, Thorne's experience as an outsider, his battle with illness, insight into his creative process, adaptations like "Lord of the Flies", and reflections on self-acceptance. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, industry wisdom, and an urgent call to protect children from the worst of digital life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adolescence & Social Media’s Impact

(00:02; 03:57; 22:32; 24:24; 26:22)

• "Adolescence" explores the lure and danger of social media algorithms, especially for vulnerable young users.

  "The thing about algorithms is as soon as you’re watching the darker stuff, more, more darker stuff gets fed and soon that’s all you’re consuming." – Jack Thorne (00:23)

• Jack outlines how characters like Jamie are shaped not just by big influencers (“Andrew Tate and the manosphere”) but subtler, community-level influences on platforms like Minecraft and Reddit.
• Both Jamie and Jack express support for banning social media and smartphones for children due to their "plastic" brains and the addictive, damaging nature of these platforms.

  "We should be trying to keep kids away from that in the same way that we keep kids away from cigarettes." – Jack Thorne (26:33)

• Calls for investment in after-school programs and avenues for belonging outside the digital world.

  "We need to be encouraging those that don’t love sport to have something...that gives them some ego boost or some feeling of belonging." – Jack Thorne (27:49)

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2. Jack Thorne’s Outsider Experience & Autism

(00:49; 09:19; 13:01; 13:59; 36:05)

• Jack shares growing up feeling on the margins, not having a true best friend until meeting his wife at 32.

  "I don’t think I really had a best friend until the age of 32. And then I married her." – Jack Thorne (13:01)

• He discusses the delayed understanding of his own neurodiversity, being diagnosed autistic in adulthood—a relief for understanding the past.

  "Autism helped me understand why I behaved in a certain way...and gave my anger with that younger version of myself a sort of nice flannel to soothe it with." (36:22)

• Recognizes lifelong comfort with solitude, whether through writing or swimming, both described as “perfect solitude”.

  "When I’m writing, I stop being me. And I like that." – Jack Thorne (21:47)

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3. Creativity & Adaptations ("Lord of the Flies", "Harry Potter")

(17:21; 19:24; 38:38; 42:48)

• Thorne illustrates the immersive, solitary process of writing—retreating to his "hut" with no wifi, emphasizing full absorption in story and character.
• On adapting major works, he describes the challenge of honoring the complexities of classic stories:

  "[Golding] cares about all those characters. He cares about Jack...He presents a 3D portrait." (44:07)

• Thorne’s personal connection to “Lord of the Flies”; reflects on how seemingly small choices and group dynamics can have massive, tragic consequences.

  "Jack is the match that sparks the rift. Jack is the match that then sets fire to the island... if one or two moments were different, the whole story would change." (44:07)

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4. Pop Culture Influences: ET, Free Willy, and Cinema’s Power

(09:19; 11:27)

• Both Jamie and Jack recall formative early movie experiences (“ET” for Jack, “Free Willy” for Jamie), linking childhood feelings of outsiderdom to the need for connection through fiction.

  "I don’t have many friends at the moment, but maybe there’s an extraterrestrial that might like me." – Jack Thorne (12:43)

• ET is hailed as a “perfect film”—a rare achievement for its emotional depth and narrative structure.

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5. Resilience & Illness

(01:11; 40:02)

• Jack recounts living with a rare heat allergy (cholinergic urticaria), leaving him bedbound for six months and disabled for 15 years.

  "I became allergic to sunlight, radiators and finally became allergic to body movement...I was flat on my back for six months...quite seriously disabled by it." – Jack Thorne (40:02)

• This adversity reframes his perspective on gratitude and self-worth.

  “If I hadn’t been that ill…I wouldn’t find myself here. So then I’ve got to be grateful for the illness.” (40:35)

• Dispels the myth that suffering automatically produces great art:

  "Everything I wrote was so self absorbed and absolute bullshit. It was horrific. It was so crap...I felt so sorry for myself." (41:27)

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6. Family, Campaigning, and Passing Down Values

(28:51; 29:18)

• Jack’s parents were passionate campaigners—his mother even went to jail for activism.
• Reflects with nuance on how activism and engagement may “skip generations” and how he’s struggled to create the same environment for his son Elliot.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the fleeting sense of belonging in elite circles:

  "Feeling like you belong in a club which you’ve long admired is very nice. But I can tell you that feeling...evaporates very, very quickly." – Jack Thorne (07:33)

• On social media and profit motive:

  "We live in an age of the four richest men in the history of mankind and they have been made rich by keeping us on our devices." – Jack Thorne (26:33)

• On craving solitude in creativity:

  "The bit that distracts me whenever I’m in any situation is me. And when I’m writing, I stop being me. And I like that." – Jack Thorne (21:47)

• On "Lord of the Flies" and small decisions:

  "It’s a tragedy that’s about the little things we do, the little decisions we make. And trying to capture that is almost impossible in story form. But Golding does it." – Jack Thorne (44:07)

• On resilience from illness:

  "Everything builds you and then you end up in a situation where you are who you are. And I’m very happy with who I am." – Jack Thorne (40:59)

• On being a “Ravenclaw” not a “Ralph”:

  "If you’re on Gryffindor, you want to be at the front holding the sword...if you’re in Ravenclaw, you want to be behind and part of the mission to change things." – Jack Thorne (37:13)

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Engaging Anecdotes & Interactions

• Golden Globes Night:
  Jack recalls making “perfect eye contact” with Leonardo DiCaprio mid-acceptance speech for "Adolescence", leaving him tongue-tied and overwhelmed (05:51).

• School & Lord of the Flies:
  Jamie tells stories of tough hierarchy and bizarre “respect” rituals at his British public school, linking it directly to understanding "Lord of the Flies" (49:23–52:25).

• Sports Fandom:
  A light-hearted exchange about American football, with Jack a passionate Tampa Bay Buccaneers supporter, lauding wide receiver Mike Evans' resilience (61:03).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Adolescence and Social Media: 00:23, 24:24, 26:22
• Feeling Like an Outsider & Autism: 13:01, 13:59, 36:05
• Creative Process & Adaptations: 19:24, 44:07, 42:48
• Inspirational Movie Memories: 09:19, 11:27
• Family/Campaigning: 28:51, 29:18
• Coping with Illness / Resilience: 40:02, 40:35
• Public School/Lord of the Flies Parallel: 49:23–52:25
• Rapid Fire Questions / Ending Lighthearted Segment: 59:44–63:29

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Conclusion & Takeaways

Jack Thorne’s journey—from feeling like an outsider, dealing with intense personal adversity, to shaping cultural conversations through his writing—offers layered perspectives on resilience, creativity, and social responsibility. The episode highlights the profound dangers lurking in unregulated digital spaces for youth, while also urging listeners to foster real-world opportunities for community and dignity. It's a conversation rich in both vulnerability and authority—essential listening for parents, educators, creatives, and anyone concerned with the state of culture and mental health today.

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Notable Quote to Close:

"We should be trying to keep kids away from [smartphones and social media] in the same way that we keep kids away from cigarettes. It’s about ideas, but it’s also about...attention spans." – Jack Thorne (26:33)

Transcript

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Coming up on Great Company.

[Jamie Laing]

Just firstly with adolescence. Congratulations, Zach.

[Jack Thorne]

I haven't done anything. It's been entirely discombobulating. This is extraordinary. Thank you for this. We will treasure it.

[Jamie Laing]

Got 141 million views.

[Jack Thorne]

It took us all by surprise. It was the shock of our lives.

[Jamie Laing]

You've created a show that's changed how people think about society and our children growing up in it.

[Jack Thorne]

The thing about algorithms is as soon as you're watching the darker stuff, more, more darker stuff gets fed and soon that's all you're consuming. That's where I thought Jamie would go.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you think we should be doing as a society to help kids like Jamie?

[Jack Thorne]

Hi, I'm Jack Thorne and I'm in Great Company. Jack Thorne.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Jack Thorne, the co creator, the writer of Adolescence.

[Jamie Laing]

How do you change Harry Potter? How do you write Lord of the Flights? How do you make these adaptations?

[Jack Thorne]

I've often written about best friends because I think I've always wanted one. I remember having this thought when I was 10 that I might never have any friends. I and everyone was in relationships with each other and I was sort of outside it. I am autistic. I definitely think that does play a role. I don't think I really had a best friend until the age of 32 and then I married her.

[Jamie Laing]

You mentioned that you got ill. What happened?

[Jack Thorne]

So when I was in my final year of university, I had a sort of complete physical breakdown. I became allergic to sunlight, radiators and finally I became allergic to body movement for about 15 years. I was quite, quite seriously disabled by it. Yeah, I did think at one point this was it on my back for the rest of my life. Wow.

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[Jamie Laing]

Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Laing and this is Great Company. Hey guys, welcome back to Great Company. Today's episode I'm really excited about because we have Jack Thorne on the show. Now some of you may know who Jack Thorne is and others you may not know about Jack Thorne, but you'll definitely know about his work. Jack Thorne is the creator of the amazing hit TV show Adolescence, which just won a Golden Globe, which is incredible. Okay? Adolescence absolutely boomed on Netflix and went viral for all of the right reasons. It was a TV show about the dark side of social media and how it corrupts and warps and takes over young kids minds at the moment. Jack came on and we spoke a lot about social media. We spoke a lot about how smartphones are damaging the younger generation and why young kids shouldn't have smartphones. We spoke about Harry Potter. He actually wrote and created Harry Potter and the Cursed Child which is the massive West End production. He's an amazing guy, been through a lot as well. He had a disease which meant that his body was allergic to heat. All of that is in the show, so get ready for it. Now, before we start, I just want to ask you one thing. Okay. One quick favor. If you can please subscribe to our show. If you enjoy it, that is. It keeps us making the show that you love, keeps getting the guests that we like to get, and keep making the show better and better each week. If you can do that, one thing, I'll. Thank you so much. Okay, here we go. Enjoy this episode of Great Company with the amazing Jack Thorne.

[Jack Thorne]

Hi, I'm Jack Thorne, and I'm in Great Company.

[Jamie Laing]

Dispersity with adolescence. Congratulations.

[Jack Thorne]

Thank you very much. It is.

[Jamie Laing]

I mean, one could argue it is perfect in lots of ways.

[Jack Thorne]

It's certainly not, but thank you.

[Jamie Laing]

And the awards that's won and the acting from the writing just is just brilliant in everywhere. And you must be over the moon.

[Jack Thorne]

No, it's been really thrilling and entirely discombobulating. I did the Globe speech when we won Best Limited and looked up halfway through my speech and literally stopped talking because I made perfect eye contact with Leonardo DiCaprio. I mean, like, perfect eye contact. And he was looking, like, directly at me, and I was looking directly at him, and it was just like, I have absolutely nothing to say to you. And if I've got nothing to say to you, what do I have to say to the room? How do I bring this back? This is awful. That side of it that, you know, I remember at the party afterwards, an executive saying to me, shy, introduced to George Clooney and just going, no, no, no, no, no. I think I've done that bit. I'm going to go and sit with my friends now. And Stephen cope with all that stuff. Stephen, you know, like, you know, he's just brilliant at all that stuff, whereas I was just kind of like, you know, I feel like I've emerged from the whole. It's very nice here. I like all the flowers, but I want to go back down the hole.

[Jamie Laing]

There's a. There's a. There's a great quote which I'm going to completely murder from Matt Damon. Right. I think it is, of all people who said that he is so happy that he won an Oscar so early on because he realized that, oh, if he had been spending his whole life trying to make an Oscar and then he never. Or he'd made it much later in life, he would have been like, well, actually, yeah. Does that really matter? Is that the same with winning it, or is it actually pretty amazing when you get up on stage and you win a Golden Globe?

[Jack Thorne]

It's very nice. And I do like all that stuff and it does make me feel better about myself in a way that's not, you know, based on any effect whatsoever. You know, like, you know, there's nothing that's.

[Jamie Laing]

It's pretty great to get on stage.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah, it's good. Feeling like you belong in a club which you've long admired is very nice. But I can tell you that feeling of belonging in that club evaporates very, very quickly. So there's a brief moment when you're like, oh yeah, no, these are my people. And then you go, oh, no, these aren't my people. These aren't my people. You know, and yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Firstly, I'm such a huge fan.

[Jack Thorne]

That's nice. I don't know whether I believe it, but it's nice.

[Jamie Laing]

I promise you. I'm a huge, weirdly huge movie buff. And just for me, I kind of my only distraction as a kid, right, I was this sort of ADHD kid running around the place and the only time that I was able to be still was when something was put on the screen in front of me. Probably like a lot of kids, right?

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

To this day I remember I used to climb into my parents bed at night all the time, Right. Cause I was scared of the dark. Still weirdly kind of am. But I remember my parents put on the fridge, they put a chart, right. And they said if you get a gold star every single night, that means I didn't go into their bed on the Saturday. I could go and watch Free Willy. Do you remember the movie Free Willy? It's a good film, great film and that for me. And I remember.

[Jack Thorne]

So you'd watched it every week and so every week. No, no, you'd fail. You'd fail most weeks.

[Jamie Laing]

But last week I actually finally made it. I didn't get into my parents bed, but I remember getting the gold stars.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And going to watch Free Willy. Yeah. And I remember sitting in the cinema and it was the first time I remember going to the cinema and watching a movie and being like, I couldn't believe it.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

That there was this, this thing and these characters playing out on screen and it was just such a. And from. That was the moment that I fell in love with cinema. Okay, what was your moment when you fell in love?

[Jack Thorne]

I've got Be Good on my wrist. My kid is called Elliot. For me it was ET So my version of Free Willy is ET Talk me through that.

[Jamie Laing]

What was. Where were you watching it? What happened?

[Jack Thorne]

I think I was taken to ET for the first time. By my Uncle John. My Uncle John was a paranoid schizophrenic. He was a guy that struggled a lot with life, but he really loved me, he loved kids. And I remember the moment when suddenly I reached the age where I was slightly too old for him. Because I think he didn't like it when people noticed that he was a bit different. And there's a moment as a kid obviously where you sort of start seeing the world a bit like other people see the world. And before that he was just my brilliant, enchanting Uncle John. And then suddenly he was, Uncle John's a bit different. But yes, he took me to the cinema a bit, I think. And I think he was the first person to take me to et and when I was a kid, because I'm a lot older than you, films would stick around in the cinema. So films would be on for years sometimes. I was a kid like you. Films were my. My way of understanding, controlling life. And I got very over emotional watching films. I was taken out of the Jungle Book because I started screaming because I thought Blue was dead. You remember there's a moment when Blue is floating down the river and it looks like Blue is dead. When I thought Blue was dead, I started screaming. So I was taken out of the jungle. But my dad then took me, think quite soon afterwards to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom where terrifying, terrifying. Someone had their heart ripped out. That is like I can't make it through the jungle. But dad, why have you taken me to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom?

[Jamie Laing]

Jack? Yes, I went to my friend David Sykes house and I watched Indiana Jones and I didn't sleep for weeks.

[Jack Thorne]

No, no.

[Jamie Laing]

It's terrifying when the hand gets. The heart is ripped up and then held up.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Absolutely terrifying for a child.

[Jack Thorne]

It is.

[Jamie Laing]

I was about 4.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah, yeah. What is going on? Yeah, and I think it was a pg. I think it was a PG film and I don't think it should have been a PG film. I think it should have been 18.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you think it is about ET that made so many people connect with it?

[Jack Thorne]

It's a perfect film. There's not anything wrong with that story. It's perfect. There's not a frame that's wrong. It's the best film about divorce ever made. It's the best coming of age film ever made. And it's the best film about aliens ever made. It's like, you know, to do all three of those things is just extraordinary.

[Jamie Laing]

What other movies do you think are close to being Perfect.

[Jack Thorne]

ET I don't know that there's any other film that's. I think Jaws would come close. I think there's a few. Then you get into the sort of indie film realm where everything is a choice. Whereas I think there's something so interesting about ET that it was constructed to be a box office film and yet spoke of so many other things at the same time and just had so.

[Jamie Laing]

Much within it for me when I watch Free Willy.

[Jack Thorne]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

The reason why it made me.

[Jack Thorne]

Which is also a perfect film.

[Jamie Laing]

Another perfect film. It is. And another perfect film. Homeward Bound, if you really want to get into it.

[Jack Thorne]

Home Abandoned. It's very good. Yeah. Unbelievable.

[Jamie Laing]

When I watched Free Willy, for me, the reason why it resonated with me because it was about this kind of cool kid who kind of broke the rules in a way. And it was about this friendship between sort of animals. And it was magical in lots of ways. And it made me feel that the world was like such an exciting place.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What did it with ET make you feel about yourself? What did it resonate with you?

[Jack Thorne]

I don't have many friends at the moment, but maybe there's an extraterrestrial that might like me.

[Jamie Laing]

Did that happen? Did you find.

[Jack Thorne]

Here now an exclusive? Yes. I made friends with an alien.

[Jamie Laing]

But you didn't have friends growing up.

[Jack Thorne]

Not friends like other people have friends. I think I never really trusted the people that I was friends with. So it wasn't like I walked around on my own all the time. I was part of a group or I was included in some way, but I never felt like I was part of something. And I think I've often written about best friends because. And friendship because I've. I think I've always wanted one. And I don't think I really had a best friend until the age of 32. And then I married her. And I'm still married to her, thankfully.

[Jamie Laing]

Shit. That was very good. That was.

[Jack Thorne]

Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

That's really.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

But did you know growing up, you were an outsider? Children were quite naive. Right. So our existence around us is just kind of like what we think it is. It's kind of good consciousness to understand certain things. Understanding that you're popular or cool is one thing. Understanding that maybe you're not fitting is quite a bit of self awareness to realize that as a young kid.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes. And my son is 9. He's about to turn 10. I think he's gonna be fine, actually. But I remember having this thought when I was 10, which is not. I don't have any friends. It was the thought that I might never have any friends. You know, like, you know, that. Just that sort of sudden realization that the world. Because I think boys. And it's so interesting watching a boy grow up and watching the girls in the playground versus the boys in the playground. The girls are so sophisticated so early. They're making sophisticated arrangements between themselves, and the boys are just sort of standing around and working out how fast they can run into a concrete pole without hurting themselves. You literally see this sort of two different groups form. And I don't like to believe in gender difference, but it's so. There's something about the way that we nurture boys and girls that allows girls to have this sort of relationship between themselves that's so interesting and so full of ideas. And the boys are just like, do you want to play? Yeah, I want to play. Okay, let's play. And then there's a moment when suddenly realization kicks in and the world kicks in, and that avalanche. That moment of avalanche for me was when I turned 10, and suddenly the world suddenly seemed clear, and everyone was in relationships with each other, and I was sort of outside it. I am autistic, and I definitely think that does play a role.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

But.

[Jack Thorne]

But I also think my own peculiar brain and my own nurturing and the way that I worked just made me like that.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, it's. You know, it's when. When we eat the apple, right? It's like Adam eating the apple, but you. You suddenly gain the experience.

[Jack Thorne]

Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. And for me, the apple was 10 years old.

[Jamie Laing]

There's a great poem which I've spoken before, which is Blake. Blake talks about innocence and experience and how experience. Experience destroys innocence. And there's something amazing about innocence. That's why one of my heroes in life is Peter Pan. I've said this a million times, but Peter Pan is amazing because Peter Pan didn't want to grow up, because he wanted to stay naive and young, and he didn't want to be like Captain Hook, who was a tyrant followed, you know, chased by time. Yes, it's kind of a beautiful thing, I think.

[Jack Thorne]

But he's interesting, isn't he, Pan? Because he's also, you know, he's named after the God of mischief. There's an element of controlling the chaos around him, isn't there? And there's.

[Jamie Laing]

No. Explain that to me. What do you mean?

[Jack Thorne]

His interactions with Wendy are ones of, come join the fun, and then you have to stay in the fun.

[Jamie Laing]

Yes.

[Jack Thorne]

You know, like, you know, and the Lost Boys similarly You know, you stay with me. You stay with me. This is what we choose to do. And I love the way he's written because he's not all innocence. He's actually a mixture of innocence and choice. And so you think it's manipulation.

[Jamie Laing]

A little bit, yes.

[Jack Thorne]

But manipulation because he genuinely believes that's what everyone should do. He's not going, I need you all. And so therefore you all must stay trapped with me. He's going, this is the way to have fun. This is the way to be. And I want you all to stay with me and stay glued to me. And I don't like it if you leave.

[Jamie Laing]

You've just destroyed.

[Jack Thorne]

No, no, no.

[Jamie Laing]

The beautiful story of Peter Pan. This tattoo I have on my arm. This manipulating, horrific. No, no, no, no. He's wonderful.

[Jack Thorne]

He's wonderful. But he's interesting, you know, that's what makes him so beautifully written. He's interesting.

[Jamie Laing]

And he was the leader.

[Jack Thorne]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

Even though he was quite childlike, but he used his power yet in a sense of power. Which is the same in Lord of the Flies.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Jamie Laing]

Which is. By the way, I haven't. I wasn't going to bring this up, but Lord of the Flies was the first play I did at school.

[Jack Thorne]

Who did you play?

[Jamie Laing]

Obviously I played Ralph.

[Jack Thorne]

Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

I can't remember.

[Jack Thorne]

And do you think you are a Ralph?

[Jamie Laing]

At school I was a sportsman.

[Jack Thorne]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

So. And because I was good at sport, I sort of became a natural leader in a way. So I had good leadership skills. And I feel like Ralph is the leader. Right. And so I.

[Jack Thorne]

But so is Jack.

[Jamie Laing]

But Jack is. If you would put in Harry Potter houses, Jack would be in Slytherin.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

And Ralph would be in Gryffindor. And I would argue I was more Gryffindor than Slytherin because I was afraid of what other people thought of me. And so when you're afraid of what other people think of you, that actually leans you into being quite kind. Cause you don't want to upset anyone. Where I don't think Jack has that. Jack is all about power and strength and wants to just dominate without caring who he knocks down in front of him.

[Jack Thorne]

I like it.

[Jamie Laing]

Is that right or wrong?

[Jack Thorne]

I don't know. I like it as a theory. I'm trying to work out whether the house in which you're in, if you want everyone to like you, is Gryffindor or Hufflepuff. And I'm not entirely sure, but that's. Cause I've thought a lot about Harry Potter for a very, very long time. I'm Ravenclaw, by the way, through and through. And I tried to convince Jo that although she was in Gryffindor and, you know, and has got a lot of Gryffindor elements, that the Sorting Hat would have given a choice between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw. I said, I think that you would have been given the choice and you would have chosen Gryffindor. But there's elements of you that belong in Ravenclaw, too.

[Jamie Laing]

This is absolutely fascinating.

[Jack Thorne]

That's an exclusive, by the way. I don't think I'm exclusive. I don't think I've ever said that.

[Jamie Laing]

So you said that to the author of Harry Potter, Vicky Rowling, that you think that she would be Ravenclaw or Gryffindor?

[Jack Thorne]

I think the Sorting Hat would have given her a choice. I mean, the Sorting Hat gave Harry a choice.

[Jamie Laing]

And you think you would be Ravenclaw for what reasons? Why?

[Jack Thorne]

Oh, I think the Sorting Hat would literally go Ravenclaw. I don't think there would be any sort of hesitation. I think that sort of slightly bookish, very comfortable in their own company, interest in the world, but not desperate to lead the world. I think that's Ravenclaw qualities and that's where I belong.

[Jamie Laing]

I believe when you get your teeth into a play or a TV show, whatever.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

If you're an actor, Right. Typically a lot of actors would method their way into it, so they would become the character. Right. And we see lots of actors who do that. Right. In lots of ways. When you're writing, do you have your version of methoding into it to understand each character? How do you change Harry Potter? How do you write Lord of the Flights? How do you make these adaptations and make them feel so, you know, how do you understand them?

[Jack Thorne]

This is why I think writing's the best job. Because when you're acting, you are surrounded by distraction. So you are surrounded by boom operators and camera operators and all the paraphernalia of a film set. When I'm writing, it's just me in a little hut that I've got at the back of the garden and there's no one else there. And so I can disappear. And I think the reason why these actors want to stay in their character is because sometimes it's very hard for them with all the noise around them to stay, to keep that concentration. I can just concentrate effortlessly because there's nothing else. I don't have WI fi in my hut. I don't have Anything in my hut, I just have my computer and I just try and absorb myself into the story. And that's the best bit. That's the bit that I love. A lot of the time you're thinking very technically, so you're not able to do that. But. But, you know, I am psychologically dependent on writing. And my psychological dependence is. Because those moments when I just lose myself are the best moments in my life. My wife, Rachel, before we had children, because you'll learn to understand this, there's always. There's post and there's pre. And before we had children, if I wasn't quite engaging with the world, she would go, go away and write. And I would go away and write. And then I'd come down a human being again. Now it would be like, can you go and sort his pack lunch out, please? So it's slightly different, but, you know, when we had time, that's what I'd do.

[Jamie Laing]

Your wife would see that and she would see what. You were distracted. There was something on your mind.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jack Thorne]

Or just. I wasn't quite. I was fidgety and just like, not at my best. And she would just go, go away and write. You know, the two things that do that for me are swimming and writing. And it's all about solitude. And writing for me is perfect solitude because I disappear. The bit that distracts me whenever I'm in any situation is me. And when I'm writing, I stop being me. And I like that. And when I'm swimming, because I'm concentrating on swimming, I stop being me, too. So it's. Yeah, it's about. It's about losing.

[Jamie Laing]

Because you find it complicated being you. Sometimes I just.

[Jack Thorne]

Just got a noisy brain. And it's nice to lose that noise.

[Jamie Laing]

In 2010, you said, I want to write stuff, and I haven't yet. That says, this is the problem, but I don't necessarily know the answer.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

And then 15 years later, you've done exactly that with adolescence. And what was interesting, what I heard you talk about, adolescence, Right. Is that when we talk about toxic masculinity. Right. People look at those sort of big figures.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Of the world who we would say those are the ones who are causing it. And what you talk about is. No, it's the ones, the smaller ones, the ones in the gaming community, the ones around you don't really see that are the real problem.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

That's interesting.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah. It's not the top of the waterfall. It's somewhere halfway down. And it's about the things that Those people have taken on from the top of the waterfall and transformed. But the thing with it was also realizing who Jamie would listen to. Your question is always, who are the influences on my character? When you're building someone, you're trying to work out the tree around them and that tree is always full of lots of interesting things, lots of interesting fruit and flowers and fauna and, you know, it's a complicated mix of stuff. And with Jamie, I thought, I don't think he'd be that interested in Andrew Tate. I think he'd dismiss Andrew Tate. I don't think he'd find him particularly. He wouldn't be drawn to him. Whereas if he's interested in Dune or if he's interested in Minecraft, or if he's interested in any of those spaces, the people that would populate those spaces would be interesting to him. And then I can see him being pulled down by one of two people within that community into somewhere darker. And the thing about algorithms is as soon as you're watching the darker stuff, more darker stuff gets fed and more darker stuff gets fed and soon that's all you're consuming. And that's where I thought Jamie would go.

[Jamie Laing]

Speak about sort of the Andrew Tate's of this world. Right. Yes. Can I also ask, you know, someone like Jamie, right. In adolescence.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

The reason why, and maybe it's not the reason why he isn't looking at someone like Andrew Tate is because that's too obvious.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah. And that there's elements to Andrew Tate's diatribes which he would just be able to see past. The manosphere is a very complicated place and it's not like it's a single being. And incel culture and Andrew Tate don't belong together at all. And incel culture isn't that aggressive and isn't necessarily part of that more sort of posturing community. But I did think the idea in incel culture that 80% of women are attracted to 20% of men would be a very powerful idea for Jamie to hear. And I do think that idea feeds a dislike and a distrust that would have sat in Jamie's head and helped build everything up. But Jamie isn't only a response to incel culture. Jamie certainly isn't only a response to Andrew Tay. Jamie is a response to his nurture, He's a response to his schooling, he's in response to his friendship group, he's in response to his own brain chemistry. He's a response to his own relationship with Shane, which is born from, you know, what happened at his sixth birthday party, as much as it's from the stuff that he read when he was 12 on the Internet or the stuff that he heard or the stuff that was presented to him. So he's a complicated mix and I hope we caught all those complicated mixes and that he's not just reduced to being. This is what happens when you watch stuff on the Internet for too long. I hope that he's like a rounded character with lots of colors within him because that's, I think, a true portrait of damage and reducing him to one thing wouldn't be a true portrait.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you think we should be doing as a society to help kids like Jamie?

[Jack Thorne]

I think we should be doing a lot of different things. I think we. I do think a social media ban is a very good idea.

[Jamie Laing]

And Jack, I'm with you on that.

[Jack Thorne]

Oh, good.

[Jamie Laing]

But why do you believe that's necessary?

[Jack Thorne]

Because I think when brains are plastic, we need to protect them. And I think that we know what smartphones do to us, and I think it's destroyed people's concentration. I think it's done huge damage to girls as well as boys, and I think it feeds toxic ideas. And I think anything that has a profit motive in keeping kids addicted to it is not something that we should be encouraging. You know, we live in an age of the four richest men in the history of mankind and they have been made rich by keeping us on our devices. And we should be trying to keep kids away from that in the same way that we keep kids away from cigarettes. So it's about ideas, but it's also about, you know, attention spans. It's about all sorts of different things, I think, but alongside that, we need to be investing in after school programs. We need to be investing in ways to keep kids engaged in society. We need to keep, you know, we need to be encouraging those that don't love sport to have something that they can do out of school that gives them some ego boost or some feeling of belonging to something. In the last 20 years, the damage to after school clubs and everything else that came with it in terms of what austerity did and, you know, and the cuts to council programs which then led to councils having to cut all these different things that were available to children has done huge damage to our society. So it's a mixture of stuff. And we need to be encouraging more talk in schools and creating safer spaces in schools for communication.

[Jamie Laing]

I'm in complete agreement. I think it's really important. I think that we have the responsibility to change this for the younger generation and what Australia have done is brilliant.

[Jack Thorne]

It is brilliant. And France going the same way and there's a lot of other countries that are along that path. But it isn't the only answer and it shouldn't be treated as the only answer. It's part of an answer which is vital. Vital, vital. Right now we can't look at this world and go, oh look what this beautiful place that we've made. I hope that our children are able to make a world like this one. What we need to do is try and encourage within them thoughts and a community that's better than ours so that the world that they then build is, is a nice one for us to grow old in.

[Jamie Laing]

You know your, your parents were big campaigners, right?

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

And forgive me if I got this wrong, but your mum before you were born went to jail for two weeks.

[Jack Thorne]

For the C and D. Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

For campaigning, for sitting on the road, right?

[Jack Thorne]

Yes, yes.

[Jamie Laing]

Which is fantastic. But that again, if we talk about like what you were when you were a kid and 6 years old, that's what would have been ingrained within your mind.

[Jack Thorne]

Oh yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And so therefore you must be within you a campaigner as well against certain things and have real passions against it.

[Jack Thorne]

But I tell you what I'm slightly sad about is that my son is not quite growing up in the same household. When I was a kid, the only topic of conversation at every dinner and lunch and breakfast was the world and was like, this is wrong, this is wrong. Oh, this is right. This is exciting. Literally studying the newspaper or listening to the radio or doing all those kinds of things. And I have not created a similar sort of place for Elliot because I don't quite have my parents self belief. I think my dad, when he was in his 70s, he was a volunteer at the Citizens Advice Bureau when he retired and he stopped because he was old and a bit tired and he was just like, you know what, I'll leave this to the next generation. And then six months later he went back to volunteering again because he said, I can't read the paper if I'm not trying to change the world. And my dad sincerely believes that. And I wow, that's amazing because I'm more timid than he is and I'm more timid than my mum is. I don't quite have that in me. And so I don't think that Elliot's been exposed to things in the same way that I was exposed to things. He's been exposed to different things, but I Am slightly sad that I haven't given him the same sort of grounding in, you know. And every now and again I try and talk to him about democracy or I try and talk to him about what's going on in America, but I don't see think I've quite created a febrile enough environment for him.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. But perhaps there is an argument suggests that these things skip a generation.

[Jack Thorne]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

So if your parents are quite bullish then you as the child probably not going to be quite as bullish. But then your child who sees their grandparents or see you not being quite as bullish then becomes quite bullish.

[Jack Thorne]

Oh wow. I like that.

[Jamie Laing]

But that's what you would sort of think, right, because you don't mimic it.

[Jack Thorne]

So what does that mean for your kid? What do you think?

[Jamie Laing]

Totally fucked.

[Jack Thorne]

Up.

[Jamie Laing]

But you must sort of agree, you know, in some ways with that. Right. You don't want to mimic your parents. Some do. Right. Some really do want to mimic their parents. But typically as kids you want to, I think you grow up, I think, wanting to be your parents and then slightly you become your parents.

[Jack Thorne]

I think it'd be quite amazing if the thing that Elliot took from his childhood is that he should be more like granddad Mike. But maybe my dad is quite a fierce granddad as well. As well as he was quite a fierce dad. So the grandkids love him dearly but they're all a tiny bit afraid of him. So I don't think necessarily that's where he'll go. He'll probably be more like my mother in law Sandy, who's just the most laid back, lovely person you can possibly imagine. Not that my dad isn't lovely. I love my dad very, very much.

[Jamie Laing]

I mean the amazing thing, you've created a show that's made, you know, conversation. It's kind of, it's changed how people think about society and our children growing up in it, which is amazing. You've shifted that and just with adolescence it's got 141 million views in its first week or something ridiculous like that.

[Jack Thorne]

No, it wasn't enough the first week, but I'd love it if it wasn't the first week.

[Jamie Laing]

Let's change that bit.

[Jack Thorne]

Listen, it took us all by surprise. It was the shock of our lives. And you know, the shocking thing was not the sort of like it doing well in this country. That was lovely. But we thought we made something powerful that people would like. The shocking thing was when we were number one in Saudi Arabia for three weeks because what they were able to take from. And this is the thing that TV is full of. TV is full of people thinking that the only thing that international audiences can understand from our culture is a rich guy on a horse or a detective looking a bit sad. And actually that thing of going. Because I was told again and again and again about shows that I was trying to sell that I'd made in other countries. No, the accents are too strong, the issues are too British. This is too much about looking in and people want to understand it. Whereas I think what Netflix are doing, not with adolescents, but with baby reindeer, with squid game, with shows like that is if you are specific and people understand your specificity, then they will like it wherever they are in the world and they will get what you're trying to do. And that was the amazing thing, that someone in Saudi Arabia understood what a kid from Pontefract was going through.

[Jamie Laing]

What was it like working with Stephen Graham again?

[Jack Thorne]

I love him. Yeah, yeah. It's the sixth thing we've done together. So it's not like, you know, it's like putting on a pair of socks rather than necessarily going, oh, I'm working with Steve. It's like, oh, right, okay, him again. And he's as used to me as I am to him. So, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

I sat with him on a table once and I met Owen Cooper, who I love.

[Jack Thorne]

Owen Cooper's a lovely boy. Lovely boy, yes.

[Jamie Laing]

And he grounded.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes, well, his parents are really nice. His mum, I know very well, Noreen, she was a care worker like my mum was a care worker and, you know, worked through the pandemic, was cutting her resident's hair through the pandemic. You know, one of these people that was like the unsung hero of COVID And I think Owen's got really good sort of solid people around him that won't. That will keep him in a good place.

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[Jamie Laing]

You mentioned earlier that you have autism.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

The diagnosis was in 2022, is that right?

[Jack Thorne]

I don't remember, but I like that, you know.

[Jamie Laing]

Well, I suppose when you were diagnosed with autism, did that. Was that a relief? Was that helpful?

[Jack Thorne]

Yes, it was a relief. Not necessarily for my present, but for my past. I think that thing of when you look back and you try and make sense of the decisions you've made and the times when you've been a less good version of yourself. I don't say you can forgive those things, but it helps you understand why you behaved in a certain way. And for me, autism helped me understand why I behaved in a certain way and why. And why I and gave my anger with that younger version of myself a sort of nice flannel to soothe it with.

[Jamie Laing]

You said earlier that you'd be in Ravenclaw. Yes, with people that don't wanna lead the world. But your writing clearly influences society in a big way. So therefore why would you be in Ravenclaw?

[Jack Thorne]

I think you can be in Ravenclaw. It's about a desire to be visible, I think. I think if you're on Gryffindor, you want to be at the front holding the sword, don't you? Whereas I think if you're in Ravenclaw, you want to be behind and you still want to be part of the mission to change things, but you don't necessarily want to be holding the sword at the front. Which doesn't mean you don't want to be attacked, you just want to be attacked in a slightly different way.

[Jamie Laing]

So you don't like. You like to be the step back, you like to be the one behind.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah, yeah. I seed power effortlessly.

[Jamie Laing]

So you like, you don't like being in control, you like being led.

[Jack Thorne]

No. When Rachel, when my wife and I are on planes, she's very nervous, right. She doesn't like flying at all. I relax completely. I can travel on any plane and relax completely because I have total faith that the pilot will do their job. I don't have a second thought about whether the pilot will do their job. Whereas if I was flying, the thing, I would be a mess, you know, if I don't drive. And when I used to drive, I would just see a thousand accidents that I was going to cause and the damage I would do to other people. Whereas if someone else is driving, I just stare at the window. I don't go, oh, Mum, you're driving and you're going to crash us. I just go, oh, that's fine. I'm just going to look out the window now and think my thoughts.

[Jamie Laing]

Because you fear responsibility?

[Jack Thorne]

Because I fear myself in responsibility. It's less a thought and more a knowledge. I know what I am when I'm driving the car. I'm someone that shouldn't be driving the car. You know, I'm just. I'm a danger to others and whereas if I'm part of something, if I'm part of a team, I have faith in my ability to be able to contribute. I just don't want to be the one that's got the gun at the front.

[Jamie Laing]

You're a true team player.

[Jack Thorne]

I'm a coward who doesn't want to be the captain. Whereas you were. You're Ralph, you want to be the captain.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, but. But I like being the captain. I am, because it made me feel good as a kid. I think. I think as a. When I was younger, I thought the only way to stand out was to be the leader. Yeah. And. And so I desired to be the leader.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

So it was for ego, in a way, which is not a healthy thing or it's.

[Jack Thorne]

It's a self belief that, that you think you can do good and it's something to be admired. We need people like that.

[Jamie Laing]

So you don't drive?

[Jack Thorne]

No, I did learn to drive and then I got ill and when I got ill, I wasn't able to drive and then I stopped taking the amount of pills that I Was which meant I was able to drive and I just decided, I just can't do it. I've the same thing with alcohol. I stopped drinking alcohol, then I stopped drinking caffeine, then. So all that stuff got cut out when I got ill, and then I didn't bring it back. And that included driving. And I think that's better that, you know. But I failed my driving test five times. I passed on my sixth attempt. So, you know, I was never particularly someone that would be of great use to the roads.

[Jamie Laing]

You mentioned that you got ill. What happened, can I ask?

[Jack Thorne]

I had this condition called colonurgy urticaria, which is an allergy to heat. So when I was in my final year of university, I had a sort of complete physical breakdown in that I became allergic to sunlight, radiators, and finally I became allergic to body movement because every time you move, you generate heat. So I was flat on my back for six months waiting for the pills to sort of kick in. And then they found the right pill combination and then I was moving gradually and for about 15 years I was quite seriously disabled by it.

[Jamie Laing]

I am so sorry.

[Jack Thorne]

No, no, it's fine. You know, it happened. You know, my dad has a phrase every year, he says every year has been the best year of his life because every year is brought into the place that he currently is. And I sort of subscribe to that. I like that idea that, you know, and so if I hadn't been that ill, it wasn't a great year, but if I hadn't been that ill, I wouldn't find myself here. So then I've got to be grateful for the illness.

[Jamie Laing]

So you believe everything happens for a reason, in a way?

[Jack Thorne]

No, I think that everything builds you. I don't think anything is fated. I think everything builds you and then you end up in a situation where you are who you are. And I'm very happy with who I am. I feel very, very lucky to be able to do the job I do. And I feel even more lucky to have the family I do. And because of those two things, I go that took me here. And if I hadn't had that, then maybe I wouldn't have met Rachel. And if I hadn't had that, then I wouldn't have written and, you know, all those different things.

[Jamie Laing]

The butterfly effect, right?

[Jack Thorne]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Though everything I wrote when I was in bed, I did write and I had this feeling like, you know, this great pain will cause me to be a great writer. Because that's what you hear about, don't you great writers are in great pain. Everything I wrote was so self absorbed and absolute bullshit. It was horrific. It was so crap. Yeah, because I felt so sorry for myself. I felt so sorry for myself. And you could just feel it in the writing.

[Jamie Laing]

But it's scary when that's happening to you so young and you don't. You haven't experienced it before. You feel like this is going to be eternal. You feel like it's never going to end. And that's always quite a upsetting place to be in.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes. And I had a doctor that said that he didn't think I was going to get better. So I did think at one point this was it, I was going to be in Wales on my back for the rest of my life, mentally.

[Jamie Laing]

What does that do?

[Jack Thorne]

It doesn't take you to a pleasant place.

[Jamie Laing]

No, no, I can imagine. So you. Then you get better, you start writing. So then that's interesting that I. Where you write about the things that you're feeling at a time. Are you still like that?

[Jack Thorne]

No, no, no. Now I don't know what I'm feeling. So I do know what I'm writing. So yeah, do I am talked about.

[Jamie Laing]

Lord of the Flies. It's one of these, you know, books that we. Or plays that you see that we kind of grew up with. Right. As kids you sort of studied it. Why have you decided to be a part of it now?

[Jack Thorne]

It's something I've always wanted to do. This project started with a conversation in Joel Wilson. Joel Wilson, who's the exact producer of this project and whose company made it. I was in his house having Sunday lunch, he's a mate of mine. And he said, go on, what's the book? What's the one book you've always wanted to do? And I said Lord of the Flies. And I'd tried to do it previously when I was in my early 30s and just been rebuffed by the estate. But it's a book that I remember reading very clearly for the first time and then I remember rereading and it's just one that I've revisited over and over again. I think it's extraordinary and I think it's used as shorthand in the worst ways. It's used as shorthand to express moments which are all about simplicity. And actually I think Lord of the Flies is an incredibly complex and interesting book where he cares about all those characters. He cares about Jack. You know, Golding really does care about Jack and He presents a 3D portrait of Jack. Roger, I think is probably lost to the waves. But he's trying to express something about society that's complicated. And people use it as something and use it to express something quite simple about society, about hate. And actually, he's showing all sides. Sides of hate. So, yes, I think it's brilliant.

[Jamie Laing]

Explain that in more detail. What do you mean he's showing all sides of hate?

[Jack Thorne]

Well, if you read the book, and hopefully we brought it out in the show. Jack is someone that has a relationship with love. That's difficult. He has a relationship with shame. That's very, very clear. And he has a relationship with the need to lead, the need to be Ralph, which is very, very. I don't want to use the word complicated again, but that is the right word in this. There's so many shades to him as a character. And without him, that island becomes a safe place because he is the ingredient that changes things. Maybe someone else would emerge, but, you know, Jack is the match that sparks the rift. Jack is the match that then sets fire to the island. And yet, if one or two moments were different, the whole story would change. If one or two moments, if Ralph and him managed to find each other in one or two moments, if Jack had less of a violent reaction to certain things, in one or two moments, the whole story becomes different. And so it's a tragedy, and it's a tragedy that's about the little things we do, the little decisions we make. And trying to capture that is almost impossible in story form. But Golding does it, and Golding does it seemingly effortlessly. It feels effortless as a story. And so I think it's an amazing story to tell, and it's an amazing story to bring to tv. I mean, we're lucky enough to be the first people to bring it to tv. And I think it's a story that suits tv. And the longer form. No, it's never been done on TV before.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow.

[Jack Thorne]

There's been two films, one in the 60s, one in the early 90s, with a sort of third chance of. Of dramatizing it. And it's so suited to tv. And it's not a show that rushes. It's a show that sits and carefully observes these children. And the performances are just incredible. I don't know how Mark. Mark Munden, who's a brilliant director, I don't know how he got these performances out of these kids. They are sensational, and they do show every color of these very, very complicated children.

[Jamie Laing]

It's so interesting. You talk about. It's those little moments. Yeah, that. And we don't realize that what we think in life is. I don't know, it's those sliding doors moments.

[Jack Thorne]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

It's like we think it's the big moments of life that change the course of everything.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

It's those little moments, those one conversations, the fact that we left home a little bit later or whatever it is.

[Jack Thorne]

Those.

[Jamie Laing]

The little ones add up to what actually happens. And you're so right. Within Lord of the Flies, there are so many moments where it doesn't have to go down that way, but it does.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah. The trailer got released yesterday, and there's been all this sort of people tweeting and retweeting this Tongan story. Do you know this Tongan story that a group of Tongan boys ended up on an island, a desert island, and they actually lived very happily on that island. And people are going, well, this could never happen. Look, this happened here. And it's like. But actually, that backs up what Golding's saying, because everything they do in this story is inflected with what they've been taught. And this society of British boys have been brought up in such a way that, you know, when you talk about those little moments, the choices made in those little moments are full of the history of these boys. And the way that they meet these moments is as a response to 11 years of learning. And those Tongan boys, whatever they were going through, were able to live this harmonious existence. But Golding recognized in that time, in that. That age of his was post war, with populism still very much in ascendance, with hatred still very much visible around in our country, that they took all that with them to the island, and then this tragedy paid out in response to that. And I think there's something about doing this show in this moment that's very interesting because of that, because we are, again, in a moment it feels like, where it's easier to hate than love. It's easier to pull someone down and push them up, and where populism is in a very, very dangerous place.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. And it's those things where the audience or whoever. You're an audience of life. Right. Where we're screaming, why are you doing that? You don't need to do that.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And with Lord of the Flies, it's kind of the same.

[Jack Thorne]

You're.

[Jamie Laing]

You're kind of going, don't do that. That doesn't need to happen.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And that's why it's such a tragedy. Right?

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Because you can see the other road.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes. Can I ask you because another thing that's laid at Lord of the Flies is that it's a takedown of public school boys. And I don't think it is. I think it's a takedown of boys that have been placed in different circumstances, and a number group of boys would have done something differently, you know, depending on where they're from, you know. But the point is the history, not the. Necessarily the class makeup. Do you think that's true, or do you recognize that there are things in the fact that this is a public school that you can see play out amongst these kids?

[Jamie Laing]

It's a really interesting question. So. Yeah. So having gone to a public school, right.

[Jack Thorne]

And Radley. Right.

[Jamie Laing]

I went to Radley, which is quite.

[Jack Thorne]

A public public school.

[Jamie Laing]

It's a very public public. It's a very Radley school for boys. Very public public school. We wore gowns. But what's interesting, right, is when I went to Radley, what I realized is, is the only way to describe it is I loved my time.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

At the school because I got to play sport and I. There were grounds to run in, and it was just. It was magical for lots of reasons, but the only way you survived there is. You had to. It was the survival of the fittest.

[Jack Thorne]

Really.

[Jamie Laing]

Truly. Yeah. It's. It was a food chain, so you had to be the lion in order to survive.

[Jack Thorne]

And did you watch other kids fade?

[Jamie Laing]

Totally, 100%. And what I realized very early on, so my very first year, right. Is that the older we lived in, they were called socials. A, B, C, D, E, F. Right. That's what it was. Those. The houses that you in. And each house had. I don't know.

[Jack Thorne]

So they didn't have names. They were literally, just.

[Jamie Laing]

Literally letters. Yeah.

[Jack Thorne]

Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

And each house would have. Well, how many would have been 20, 100 to 150 boys, right. Maybe 100 boys. And I very quickly realized that in the house, the top year ran the house.

[Jack Thorne]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

And the leader of the top year ran the whole house. The teachers didn't, the boys did. And so therefore, your mentality is, right, You've got to survive. So what I did is a survival mechanism, right, Is you became friends with the top years. That's what you would do. Right. But then as you came up the years, you would then become leader yourself. So it's very hierarchical. It was.

[Jack Thorne]

And were there years when the top years were dominated by Jacks, and there were years when they were dominated by Ralph's.

[Jamie Laing]

Without a doubt, my first year was dominated by Jax.

[Jack Thorne]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

So it Was tough. So, I mean, I could tell you some horrific stories which happened to us. I mean, some people call it horrific. I saw it. What was very odd, right, is that if you were. This sounds terrible and my. I'm sure it's all changed, but at my school, if you were strong enough, you were kind of picked on by the old years. If you weren't, you were kind of left. It's okay. So. Because I was. Seemed to be quite cocky and confident, it was a sign of respect to, you know, be picked on in a way. So I had things like one night they came and sprayed links on me and set fire to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was.

[Jack Thorne]

Set fire to you?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, they lit it. So it all came off me. Like, things like that. Yeah. But it was a sign of respect. It was very strange. So it was so. And they. And it wasn't.

[Jack Thorne]

Do you guys know this?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, yeah. It was very weird. It was. It was kind of weird. But if you were. If that happened to you as a sign of respect, which is quite odd. And so what happened was. Is that.

[Jack Thorne]

And were you burnt?

[Jamie Laing]

No, not really. But it was.

[Jack Thorne]

Not really. Not really. Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

It's quite weird to think about it, right? It was. And it's now completely changed. This would not happen, Right. This is back in the day.

[Jack Thorne]

I hope so.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. But it was. It was very much so, from my experience. Right. And then I remember my very first year, Radley, I did Lord of the Flies. I got it. Yeah. I understood it straight away. I understood that if you. If we were to be said, if I group of boys, 20 in my year with central Ireland, that would happen. And you could call out the Ralph, the Jack, the Piggy, you could do that.

[Jack Thorne]

But if your group. If Your group of 20 had been sent because you would have been a leader, you might have been a Ralph, and so you might have made friends with the other Ralph and it might have been a harmonious island, potentially.

[Jamie Laing]

I look at it like my year, Right. And the thing is, I think, why the differences equally.

[Jack Thorne]

What could have happened is someone could have just got link sprayed on them and then burnt to death.

[Jamie Laing]

But also I. If you look at. I sort of think that, you know, there's that quote. When you view. If you have a barrel of apples and there's one rotten apple in it, everything turns rotten, right? You just. That's the tricky thing.

[Jack Thorne]

No, the interesting thing is that the real rotten apple is Roger. Would Roger have been given the opportunity to have the power he had if it wasn't for Jack and so. And is Jack half rotten, half fresh? That's what makes the book interesting. It's not about one rotten apple. It's actually about apples that are all a bit different. And the one that you would think as the most dangerous needs to be given his spurs by someone who's perhaps not as dangerous.

[Jamie Laing]

If you could pick something else to another adaptation like Lord of the Flies, what would be your next?

[Jack Thorne]

It was Lord of the Flies. That was it. This is it. This is the one that I've been waiting all my life to do. So I don't. I don't have another one that sort of lined up after that. I'm sure I will do adaptations again, because I love doing adaptations. But. But Lord of the Flies was my dream book, and I'm so pleased we managed to persuade the estate to let us do it.

[Jamie Laing]

Guys, I'm just gonna stop the podcast there because the next part is brought to you by audible, okay. Where you can find all the wellness hacks and guidance you might need for the new year and beyond. Okay? So red alert. It's the new year. I don't know if you know that, but it is. And you know what that means. It's time to think about our wellness habits and really try to make those resolutions that we're trying to make stick, actually stick this year. I'll go first. Okay. So this is my current wellness routine, and I want to know what you think of it. So I get up and I go to the gym. It's really important for me to kind of really get that energy and endorphins that I get from it, whether that may be a run or it may be some weights or it may be some cardio. It may be even a walk. Now that I have a kid, I do a lot of walking. Right. It's much easier than actually going to the gym. But for me, that is kind of a fundamental thing that really helps me with my wellness routine. Without a doubt. My wife takes a lot of vitamins. I've started taking vitamins. That really helps. And also, one of the big things that I do is electrolytes. Take your electrolytes, put it in your water. Those kind of things really help you feel hydrated throughout the day. Now, those are kind of the simple things I do. The other things on the side of that, yes, I've tried meditating. A lot of. You know that meditating is quite hard to switch your brain off. But I try and do some sort of meditation, whether it's reading a book, a moment of silence, Playing a game like chess, whatever it may be, to have those relaxing moments, it's really important. And then one of the things I really do in my routines is I sounds a little bit cheesy, but I give gratitude and thanks. So every morning and every evening, I will always give thanks for my family, my friends, for the things I get to do. And that kind of gratitude towards life really makes you fills your cup up. Well, for me it does. And lastly for me, Healthy diet. It's so hard to be healthy, especially when the weather is a bit miserable, especially when it's raining outside. You want to come home, eat all the things that make you feel good. The pizzas, I know, the sweets, the ice creams, whatever it may be. But actually, if you try and be a bit more strict with yourself, especially with your diet, it can help you so much throughout the week, throughout the days. Even though I've got my wellness routines, there's definitely a few I'm keen to try out this new year. Now, a few things I'm going to throw at you. Natural sunlight exposure, getting outside, maybe for 30 minutes. Walking when you wake up. Okay, it sounds so strange, but actually getting outside and getting that sun on you makes you feel so much better. Digital sunsets. Okay, check this out. Turning off all electronic screens an hour before going to bed helps your brain produce the melatonin it needs for deep rest. I mean, you should really try it. I actually sleep with my phone outside of the room, and I learned that from someone called TJ Power who came on the podcast. I don't sleep with my phone in the room. Daily gratitude journaling is another thing I want to try. Writing down three specific things you're thankful for rewires your brain. Now, I do this by talking, but actually writing it down. Your brain notice the positives rather than the stresses. Try and keep a journal, a log, whatever it may be. It will really, really help. Now, as you can see, there are so many different ways to find the wellness that suits you. And it all starts with learning and inspiration. Okay? And there's no better place to find a range of audiobooks and podcasts to find your wellness than at Audible. For example, if you're wanting to know about your diet and how crucial food is for wellness, then tune into okay, reset your health with my buddy Jamie Oliver. In this series, he talks to six experts who can cut through the noise about our diets. That's just one place to start, on Audible. So if you want to get your fix of wellness content, visit audible.co.uk to find your wellness today. See audible.co.uk for terms. Quentin Tarantino. Do you like Tarantino?

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay, so Tarantino says that he believes that writers, creators are like boxers. You know, you only have a certain amount of rounds in you.

[Jack Thorne]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you believe that in terms of creating shows, movies, writing, whatever it may be?

[Jack Thorne]

No, I don't believe that. I think that there's moments when you hit better form and there's moments when you hit worse form, really, and you've just got to sort of navigate your way through that. But this sort of 10 films thing, I don't think it's done him any favors, and I don't think he's done the world any favors. He's a magnificent maker of stories. You know, if you look at Spielberg's career or you look at Scorsese's career, you know, these are people that have done 50 years at the cliff face, and there's moments when they've done stuff that's perhaps not the best work that they've ever done. And there's moments when they hit the heights. But. But it's not like they had 10 films, you know, if you'd stop Spielberg's career at 10 films, I'm not even sure you get to Shinda's list, you know, like, you know. You know, I'm not sure you would. And you certainly wouldn't get to Lincoln, and you certainly wouldn't get to, you know, west side Story, which was magnificent. You wouldn't. You wouldn't get the other things. And. And with Scorsese, arguably, he's making, you know, he's just made the best film of his career, you know, like, you know, so, yeah, I don't think people should be put in any sort of box. And we're always kind of negotiating our way out of it.

[Jamie Laing]

And do you. Do you worry for cinema? Leonardo DiCaprio, who you locked eyes with.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

You know, your friend. I love that you locked eyes with him.

[Jack Thorne]

I would throw anyone off.

[Jamie Laing]

Oh, God, it's Leonardo. It's like you're the Mona Lisa.

[Jack Thorne]

Yes, it really is. It really is. It really is. And the Golden Globes. The Golden Globes is constructed so that there's the famous people are on the floor bits, and then the less famous people are on. So I'd not seen any of these famous people until I walked down, because I was in the. In the, you know, in the sort of like nosebleeds. And then. And then suddenly I was facing them all.

[Jamie Laing]

I could keep on talking and I Know you can't because you have to other places to go. I just want to say thank you.

[Jack Thorne]

No, thank you very much. Like I'm an odd booking, so I'm grateful you. You brought me on.

[Jamie Laing]

No, you're kidding. Me too. You were fantastic booking because everything you've done, everything you kind of stand for, it's. It's a complete honor to talk to you, to be honest.

[Jack Thorne]

Well, thank you very much.

[Jamie Laing]

We like to end the conversation, yes, with a hundred questions.

[Jack Thorne]

I'm aware of this. But yes, I've listened. And some do well at this moment and some do less well.

[Jamie Laing]

Eight questions. You ready for this?

[Jack Thorne]

Yes.

[Jamie Laing]

What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

[Jack Thorne]

Be good. And I have it inscribed on my body.

[Jamie Laing]

Best compliment anyone's ever given you.

[Jack Thorne]

Although Jack Thorne seemed to be suffering from a head cold, he did very well in the part of Ronnie Winslow. My first ever review. Well, I played the windslay boy.

[Jamie Laing]

That's great. That's good. Get that tattooed on you. What scares you most about yourself?

[Jack Thorne]

Hurting others?

[Jamie Laing]

That is my favorite answer. That's great. When was the last time you cried and why?

[Jack Thorne]

My son read out a story to me a couple of nights ago that's called My Neighbor's a Zombie, which was brilliant and beautiful and, yeah, made me cry.

[Jamie Laing]

What's something you can't let go of?

[Jack Thorne]

Shame.

[Jamie Laing]

Wanna talk about it? What's your guilty pleasure?

[Jack Thorne]

The NFL.

[Jamie Laing]

I'm a huge NFL fan.

[Jack Thorne]

What's your team?

[Jamie Laing]

We used to be Pittsburgh Steelers. Cause I used to love Rosalberger and I used to be a huge fan.

[Jack Thorne]

Now you miss Big Ben and you can't find a replacement?

[Jamie Laing]

I can't find a replacement, but now I'm more Chiefs, and that's not because of the glory, but I just loved Mahomes when he was a rookie and I just became a fan of that, so I kind of liked everything. Who's your team?

[Jack Thorne]

Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Do you know Mike Evans?

[Jamie Laing]

Yes.

[Jack Thorne]

Wide receiver Mike Evans is the sweetest, kindest, nicest man in the whole world. And he can run like a train and he's built like a tank. I think his mum had him when she was 14 and then when he was 9 or something. I'm getting these details wrong. His uncle killed his father, so he grew up in a very, very difficult place. And he's emerged with it with so much class and generosity. And so I love him as a person and I love him as a wide receiver. And when he got a thousand yards. Not this year. But the year before, when he was.

[Jamie Laing]

The last 10 seasons in a row.

[Jack Thorne]

And it was the last of the game, I made a noise that I don't think I've ever made before or since. I was just so happy for him and it was just such a beautiful moment. And literally my mother in law was upstairs with my wife and came down the stairs because she was concerned for me. But I was so happy for Mike. So I love Mike.

[Jamie Laing]

That is brilliant, you know, that is. I love that. Yeah. He got a thousand yards for 10 seasons in a row and it's never been done.

[Jack Thorne]

It equal Jerry Rice's record.

[Jamie Laing]

Equal Jerry Rice is amazing. Just amazing. What turns you off?

[Jack Thorne]

Oh, that's a difficult question. I'm very easy to please. Selfishness.

[Jamie Laing]

What turns you on?

[Jack Thorne]

Kindness. Mike Evans.

[Jamie Laing]

I might start supporting the Buccaneers as well. What do you like most about yourself?

[Jack Thorne]

I like being able to write, you know, like, you know, it gives me great pleasure. Great pleasure. And would even if no one was interested, just the ability to write. And everyone's got that ability, but just I like that ability in me.

[Jamie Laing]

I would do podcasting even if no one listened. I actually genuinely would. I love it that much. Bonus 1. Which actor would you most want to work with next?

[Jack Thorne]

I mean, Stephen Graham. That's the honest answer. You know, it's always Steve. He's off being fabulous now, but he'll come back to me.

[Jamie Laing]

And last bonus one for me. Would you ever write a role for.

[Jack Thorne]

Are you looking twice?

[Jamie Laing]

Don't worry, I can act. Oh boy.

[Jack Thorne]

I can act right when I do Lord of the Flies, but everyone's a bit more grown up. You're Ralph? Yeah. Is that a deal? Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Thank you very much. Jack Thorne. Thank you so much for coming on.

[Jack Thorne]

Thank you very much for having me. Thank you. That was amazing.

[Jamie Laing]

Thank you so much. That was fantastic. I could have gone for hours. Guys, I really hope you enjoyed that episode. Firstly, a huge thanks to Jack Thorne. What a great guy. I mean, that moment that he said that he didn't really have friends until he was 32 years old and then he married his best friend. That really, really got me. Just an incredible guy. Really talented, super smart and just empathetic and kind in lots of ways. So many things I took from this episode. I mean, my main point is, is the whole conversation around social media. Look, I'm a huge consumer of social media. We know that we probably see my stuff online the whole time, right? But the more and more I spend online, the more and more I realize how bad it actually is for us. And now just becoming a dad. I really worry about that for my younger baby. Right. Growing up with social media, we don't really know what it does, where it's going, we don't see the harmful effects it's had because it's kind of a new thing. So I'm a big believer and I, you know, some people may be against me, but I'm a big believer in not allowing younger kids to have smartphones until they're a certain age when they can make choices. I think we should treat it like drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, like we do in the uk. That conversation was incredible. Jack, thank you for being so open and honest about so many different things. And we hope you really enjoyed this too. Now remember to subscribe to the show if you haven't already. And of course we're going to be back next week for another episode of Great Company.

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