Cat Burns on Grief | GREAT MOMENTS

Summary

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Great Company with Jamie Laing

Episode: Cat Burns on Grief | GREAT MOMENTS

Release Date: January 19, 2026
Guest: Cat Burns (Singer-Songwriter)

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Great Moments" from the Great Company podcast features powerful highlights from Jamie Laing’s conversation with singer-songwriter Cat Burns. The focus is on Cat’s honest and inspiring reflections about grief, resilience, and the transformative power of vulnerability. Throughout the conversation, Cat opens up about the impact of her father's absence and eventual passing, her relationship with her mum, the inner work of forgiveness, and how personal pain translates into her music. The episode is warm, relatable, and moving, offering listeners comfort and insight around grief, healing, and connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Cat's Relationship with Her Parents and Early Grief

• Father's Absence and Loss
  • Cat shares that her father was not present much during her childhood and passed away four years ago, on Christmas Day.
  • "I didn't have the best relationship with my dad and he passed away four years ago. Christmas Day." (03:02)
  • The absence led to a deeper appreciation for her mum, whom she calls “the queen of my existence.” (02:54)
• Home Life After Divorce
  • Parents separated when she was 7, divorced by age 9.
  • Her mother became her main support; the atmosphere at home immediately improved after her father's departure.
  • "The vibes in this house are not good. So once he was gone, I was like, oh yes, the truth." (05:22)

The Nature of Grief and Love

• Connection Between Grief and Compassion
  • Cat reflects on the bittersweet beauty of grief, explaining that those who’ve experienced it are “some of the most loving people you could meet,” because they understand the fragility and value of love.
  • "We’ve learned the price we pay for love. ...It's a sad club to be a part of, but... it’s a beautiful one as well." (03:05)
• Forgiveness and Letting Go
  • Cat describes how she worked to forgive both herself and her father after his death, using active imagination and therapy to heal.
  • She chooses to take only positive memories from childhood: "Maybe I’m gonna pick things from my childhood that I actually want to take with me and keep and let go of the things that I don’t." (08:01)
• On Forgiveness:
  • “Forgiveness is for yourself.” (08:49)
  • Discusses how resentment often mirrors our own neglected boundaries, emphasizing the importance of self-surrender and acceptance.
  • “When you forgive yourself and shed this... most of life is about surrendering to it. And the resistance is what causes us to be ill and not be okay.” (09:35)

Emotional Resilience and Mental Health

• Survival Instincts and Suffering
  • The conversation touches on human tendencies to focus on suffering and disaster (a survival mechanism), making it harder to embrace positivity.
  • "We lean into that sort of suffering place. It's much easier for us to lean into the suffering, be a victim. It's much harder to not be and be positive and happy..." (10:00)
• Mindfulness and Acceptance
  • Cat shares practical techniques for managing anxiety—relaxing the body, breathing, and letting feelings flow through rather than resisting them.
  • “…We are stronger than we are told we are by society and all those things. ...You can just let it flow through you. It doesn't have to—You don't have to be like, no, I shouldn't feel this. I don't want to feel this. Just feel it.” (10:32, 11:02)

The Loss of Cat’s Father

• Details of His Passing
  • Her father died from cancer, after two years of illness (diagnosed when Cat was 18, passed away when she was 20).
  • "He got diagnosed when I was 18. He was in and out of remission, and then he passed. Christmas Day." (11:34)
• Impact on Her Life
  • The experience, though difficult, allowed Cat to grow in vulnerability and deepened her connections with others—both personally and through her music.
  • "It allowed me to connect with everyone in my life on a way deeper level...I feel like I'll be safe around you." (12:08)

Creativity and Universal Human Connection

• Music as Therapy and Solidarity
  • Cat sees songwriting as a form of therapy that connects people through shared experiences.
  • “That’s why I make music in the first place… There’s something about, like, it could be really hard for someone to say something, but to sing it is easier...” (12:45)
  • She believes in music's power to assure listeners they're not alone in their struggles:
    • "Music is a way... to connect people to each other. ...there might be someone... who’s isolated... And then they can slap on a song and someone's talking about that exact scenario and being like... I'm not alone in this." (13:20)
  • Acknowledges that everyone experiences difficulty and isolation: “Our lives aren’t that unique. We’re all in the same simulation… so music is a way to connect people...” (13:05)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the nature of grief:
  • "People who experience grief are one of the most loving people you could meet. ...We've learned the price we pay for love." – Cat Burns (03:03)
• On home life after divorce:
  • "I was like, the vibes in this house are not good. So once he was gone, I was like, oh yes, the truth." – Cat Burns (05:22)
• On forgiveness:
  • “Forgiveness is for yourself.” – Cat Burns (08:49)
  • “Seeking revenge is like drinking poison and wanting another person to die. It only hurts yourself.” – Jamie Laing (08:41)
• On music as therapy:
  • “There’s something about, like, it could be really hard for someone to say something, but to sing it is easier... Music is a way… to connect people to each other.” – Cat Burns (12:45, 13:05)
• On feeling less alone:
  • "There might be someone sitting in their room who's isolated themselves... and then they can slap on a song and someone's talking about that exact scenario... and being like, oh my God, I'm not alone..." – Cat Burns (13:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:46–03:41] – Cat Burns shares her family background and early experiences of grief.
• [03:42–05:40] – Discussion of family dynamics, the divorce, and her mum’s influence.
• [06:00–08:09] – Forgiveness, healing, and actively choosing which parts of childhood to carry forward.
• [08:40–09:51] – On resentment, forgiveness, and the necessity of surrender in healing.
• [10:00–11:25] – Survival instincts, leaning into suffering, and how to break the cycle with mindfulness.
• [11:25–12:08] – The impact of her father’s illness and death on her personal growth and relationships.
• [12:24–14:02] – Music as a tool for healing and connecting with others in their vulnerability.
• [14:02–End] – Jamie reflects on Cat’s wisdom and encourages listeners to appreciate their loved ones.

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Takeaways

• The Power and Complexity of Grief: Cat’s vulnerability and honesty offer comfort to those struggling with loss.
• Forgiveness as a Self-Gift: True healing is about letting go for your own sake, not for the person who hurt you.
• Creative Expression: Cat’s music is an act of self-therapy and solidarity for listeners who may feel alone in their pain.
• Appreciate Loved Ones: Jamie echoes Cat’s message, reminding us to value the people in our lives while we can.

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This episode provides meaningful guidance on processing grief, exercising forgiveness, and harnessing vulnerability for deeper human connection—making it helpful listening for anyone seeking empathy, comfort, or inspiration.

Transcript

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[Kat Burns]

Did I talk too much? Can't I just let it go?

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[Jamie Laing]

Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Laing, and this is Great Moments. Hey, guys. This is Great Moments where I share some of my favorite moments from my conversations on Great Company. Now, we've had so many incredible guests on the show, and there are things they've said that have really stayed with me long after the conversation ended. So each week I'll bring you one standout moment, something that's made me think, made me laugh or cry or change my perspective. And hopefully there's something in it for you, too. So are you ready? Let's get into it.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Your dad wasn't around.

[Kat Burns]

I mean, like, not really?

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

So what was the relationship there? See, because your mum's your kind of rock, I imagine, Right?

[Kat Burns]

She's my queen.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Kat Burns]

She's the queen of my existence. I didn't have the best relationship with my dad and he passed away four years ago.

[Raj or Noah (Am I Doing It Wrong? Podcast Hosts)]

Wow.

[Kat Burns]

Christmas Day. Which is why I think, slightly a tangent, but still within topic. I think people who experience grief are one of the most loving people. Like, one of the most loving people you could meet. Because we know the. The fragility of life and how important it is to love people when they're there. And it's a sad club to be a part of, but the. It. It's a beautiful one as well, because you've. We've learned the price we pay for love. But. But it's nice because my mum. I can do random things. My mum will be like, you know, your dad did that exact same thing. Like, town to how I moisturize my face. Or like, I can personify anything. I could. I could do anything. Like, I've got my imagination is so, like.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

What do you mean?

[Kat Burns]

You could be sort of like, it. Like, I could. Like, I could just. It depends. Like, I could be driving and a random pedestrian just, like, crosses the street. I'll give them a random name. I've given them a backstory. I've been like, why have you done that, Janine? Why? What. What's your problem? Or like, I can just really. I can. I can personify any. I can build a story.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

You can build a world around anything and anyone.

[Kat Burns]

Exactly. And that's something that he would do. And he was always the. The life and soul of that. He would be the one giving advice to everybody and doing all of these things. But. And he wasn't able to provide that to his family. What.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

How old are you? When he wasn't around.

[Kat Burns]

But they split up when I was 7 and divorced when I was 9.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Same thing. My parents divorced when I was around.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Split up seven, eight, divorced.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

It's a tricky time for. As an individual. Not just the divorce time, obviously, that's tricky. But as a. In terms of growth, it's a real sort of precious time, I think, because you're still in that stage where I found that it's like, parents are everything. And then suddenly that separates. You're a bit like, well, the world's pretty scary because what's happening here and you don't really understand it as well. So I didn't process it very well.

[Kat Burns]

Right, interesting.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

I really didn't process it at all.

[Kat Burns]

Well. I think my. The difference there is I was happy. I was, oh, thank God. It just be me, my mom and my sister. We can just frolic around. This is vibes.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah, I was like, the vibes in this house are not good. So once he was gone, I was like, oh, yes, the truth. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

I mean, that's an amazing truth.

[Kat Burns]

And yeah, I was like, yeah. I mean, naturally.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

But explain that to. What were the vibes in the house before?

[Kat Burns]

It wasn't a good environment, I think. I think hostile.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Anything like that.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah, I think he. I think he was just. Again, as an adult and once I've unpacked in therapy, I just think lots. He's probably. Well, neurodivergency is paternal, so he most probably had ADHD and. Or autism. And I think he just had a lot of sensory overload. He wasn't able to regulate his emotions that well. And I think when you're in the household receiving that, that can make you well. That's what made me quite an anxious child. So then when he was out, I was like, thank goodness. Wow. And then as I got older, you know, you unpack, you. You develop, you know, you start to seek connection. And I think I was really boy crazy when I was a teen, which is crazy because I am a gigantic lesbian, but I was really boy crazy when I was a teenager. And even now thinking about it's probably because I was trying to seek some, like, a male love. And then as I got older and, you know, lockdown happened and you unpack things, I was like, I've got males in my life that I love. I've always had boy best friends throughout my life. So I'm like, I've got the males in my life that I love. I've got. I've got that. I don't actually like any of these. I don't like them, I don't fancy them, I don't want to be with them. And then when he passed away, it was. That was when the real growth happened. Because it was like, you can place blame and put anger on a person whilst they're still alive, but when they're not, it's just like you're smacking something at the wall when it comes straight back at you.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Totally. And that's dangerous.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah, exactly. So I had to really unpack and forgive myself and forgive him. And lots of active imagination where I just kind of close my eyes and think about my past and reassure in my inner child stuff and, like, really do the work. And I learned from that time from my childhood, when I think back to it, I'm like, as much as my dad wasn't great, I'm like, but I also had a mum who was really great. And I've started just taking control of my brain a little bit more and being like, well, I can actually. Maybe I'm going to pick things from my childhood that I actually want to take with me and keep and let go of the things that I don't. I had a really great mum who acted like a mum and a dad. She did the best that she could. So funny. Made me feel so safe. I can cry to her all the time. I can. There's so much love that I was, that I did have. And now I've got the tools to be able to look back and be like, I'm going to take this and this and this and just leave the. Leave the faff. Because that doesn't serve me. I've unpacked it, I've healed from it. I've forgiven myself, forgiven him. So I don't need to.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

That's beautiful.

[Kat Burns]

Thank you.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

No, that really is. It's an amazing way to be. And. And, yeah, I always live by a sort of rule which is. I don't know, I can't remember where the quote comes from, but it's. Seeking revenge is like drinking poison and wanting another person to die.

[Kat Burns]

Yes.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

It only hurts yourself.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

And as much as it's painful to try to forgive and let go, we must try and do that in life.

[Kat Burns]

Forgiveness is for yourself. I think the same with resentment as well. Like when I've learned or my idea of resentment is that person is just again, a mirror for all of the times where you didn't acknowledge your own boundaries. Does that make sense if you're in a toxic relationship, again, not an abusive physically or something like that, that person has got their own things that they're going through and should not take that on you. But I think if you're just in kind of a toxic Y relationship and you've got loads of resentment, I think that's just a mirror of every time you look at them, it's a reminder that you neglected your own boundaries or you didn't show yourself that respect that you needed to, and every time you look at them, you're like, it's just a reminder of that. So when you forgive yourself and shed this, I think most of life is about surrendering to it. And the resistance is what causes us to be ill and not be okay. When you just surrender to everything happening life Becomes so much easier to manage.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

That's so much harder to do as well. It's so funny. Do you know what I find so strange is. It's like, I think as humans we. I think it's like an evolutional thing, like evolutionary thing, which is like the save. We always thought the saber tooth tiger was out there. So survival. Always be scared. The stick breaking behind you in the middle of the night isn't, you know, your neighbor saying hi. It's, you know, it's something scary. Right. So we lean into that sort of suffering place. It's much easier for us to lean into the suffering, be a victim. It's much harder to not be and be positive and happy and take the good things out. And so I think in life you have to try as much as it's difficult to not lean into that sense of suffering.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah. But it's almost. You have to be aware that you're doing it. Because sometimes I can get super anxious about something or find myself ruminating, and then I'll just be like. When I'm in tune with my body, I'll be like, we're literally tense. So first of all, let's just take a breath and actually just relax all of our limbs. We've got the tools. Let the. Let the feeling flow through you. It will pass, as will everything. You. You are like, I think we have to give ourselves enough credit. We are stronger than we are told we are by society and all of those things. Like, we are very strong humans. When you feel an emotion, you have got the. You can just let it flow through you. It doesn't have to. You don't have to be like, no, I shouldn't feel this. I don't want to feel this. Just feel it. Just feel it. And it will pass. And then you can go about your day.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

How did your dad die? Quickly?

[Kat Burns]

Cancer.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

That old?

[Kat Burns]

Yeah, it's the. It's. It's not a good one, is it?

[Raj or Noah (Am I Doing It Wrong? Podcast Hosts)]

Not a good one.

[Kat Burns]

No, no. But it was. It was two years, so he got diagnosed when I was 18. He was in and out of remission, and then he passed. Christmas Day.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

I'm really sorry. You've just. All right.

[Jamie Laing]

It says.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

It says, yeah, but grief, you know, back to back is like. It's. It's tricky.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah. So I guess it's happened when I've been quite young, 20 and 24. But again, I think it's part of my story and it's allowed me to be more vulnerable than I've ever been in my life.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Kat Burns]

And it allowed me to connect with everyone in my life on a way deeper level. And I've had people in my life like, oh, my gosh, when I eventually experience grief, I feel like I'll be safe around you.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

I think this is why your music is so amazing.

[Kat Burns]

Thank you.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Because I think what you. As you said, what you do is you encapsulate feelings and emotions and you're very honest. You know, one of your songs about coming out is, you know, is queer. And that's quite a bold thing to talk about in a song.

[Jamie Laing]

Right.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Because it's a very personal thing to you, but you decide to make music about it.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Great Company Podcast Host)]

Which I think is amazing.

[Kat Burns]

Yeah. That's why I make music in the first place and why I love music because it is therapy. And there's something about, like, it could be really hard for someone to say something, but to sing it is easier in a way of a poem. And I just found, I think, again, not in a mean way, but our lives aren't that unique. We're all in the same simulation. We're all on the same earth. So music is a way, I think, to connect people to each other. Because there might be someone sitting in their room who's isolated themselves and is like, I'm the only one going through this thing. Like, life is just awful. I can't. I don't know why this is happening to me. And then they can slap on a song and someone's talking about that exact scenario and being like, oh, the song has literally been written for me. I'm not alone in this. Maybe. Maybe these things do happen to everybody. It might be a really awful breakup or death or something. And being able to listen to a song where someone else has experienced that exact thing and being like, oh, my God, I'm not alone, is such a comforting feeling, especially as someone who feels different from everybody else and wanting to seek connection in every way possible.

[Jamie Laing]

That was from my conversation with Kat Burns, the incredible singer, songwriter, and celebrity traitors legend. I loved that show and I loved having Kat on Great Company now. She spoke about so many amazing things. In particular, her perspective on grief. That kind of really stuck with me. What she says about how people who experience grief are some of the most loving people you can meet. It's such a beautiful, kind of powerful way of looking at things. Talking to Kat also reminded me how important it is to appreciate the people you love whilst they're here. Be vulnerable. Allow yourself to connect with people on a deeper level. Don't take loved ones for granted. Enjoy your time with them. Okay, it seems so obvious, but it can be so easy to forget. Now if you enjoyed that great moment, you can listen to Kat's full episode on Great Company wherever you get your podcasts. We're going to leave the link in the show description below. You can click on it and Kat is just one of many incredible guests we've had in Great Company. So if you haven't already, make sure you go and check out some of the others too. And don't forget if you can follow and subscribe and I'll see you next week for a brand new episode of Great Company.

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