CHLOE BURROWS: I'VE FINALLY FOUND LOVE AFTER LOVE ISLAND

Summary

Podcast Summary: Great Company with Jamie Laing - Episode Featuring Chloe Burrows

Episode Title: CHLOE BURROWS: I'VE FINALLY FOUND LOVE AFTER LOVE ISLAND
Release Date: July 29, 2025
Host: Jamie Lang
Guest: Chloe Burrows
Produced by: Jampot Productions

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Great Company with Jamie Laing, host Jamie Lang welcomes Chloe Burrows, a renowned personality best known for her stint on Love Island. The conversation delves deep into Chloe's journey before, during, and after her reality TV experience, touching upon personal growth, mental health, and the complexities of navigating fame.

Chloe Burrows' Journey Before Love Island

Chloe opens up about her life prior to joining Love Island, highlighting her diverse endeavors in television, dating shows, and her burgeoning presence in the digital sphere.

Chloe Burrows [03:05]: "Since Love Island, I've done lots of different things, from doing TV shows to other dating shows to having a podcast, being quite big on digital."

Experience on Love Island

The heart of the discussion revolves around Chloe's experience on Love Island. She recounts the intense environment, the pressures of reality TV, and the emotional rollercoaster that comes with being in the public eye.

Chloe Burrows [26:02]: "It was an out-of-body experience. I didn't really remember how I felt during the first week, but it was intense."

Chloe details the mechanics of entering the villa as the first "bombshell," the structured yet organic nature of the show, and the challenges of forming genuine connections under constant surveillance.

Personal Challenges: ADHD and Mental Health

A significant portion of the conversation addresses Chloe's recent diagnosis of ADHD. She and Adam Grant (who also shares his ADHD diagnosis) discuss how understanding this aspect of themselves has provided clarity on past behaviors and academic struggles.

Adam Grant [10:37]: "After it was diagnosed, it gave me an excuse for a lot of things. Growing up made sense now."

Chloe echoes similar sentiments, emphasizing the importance of proper diagnosis and self-awareness in managing ADHD symptoms.

Navigating Relationships and Heartbreak

Chloe candidly shares her tumultuous past relationship with a married man, shedding light on the emotional turmoil and the eventual heartbreak that led her to Love Island. She discusses the challenges of poly-focused relationships and the lessons learned from such experiences.

Adam Grant [23:08]: "Everyone in there was in love. Your emotions are just heightened. I was in love for sure."

The duo explores the dynamics of toxic relationships, the importance of self-respect, and the empowerment that comes from leaving unhealthy situations.

Impact of Fame and Public Scrutiny

Both Chloe and Adam delve into the repercussions of sudden fame post-Love Island. They discuss the anxiety, loss of privacy, and the relentless public scrutiny that follows being a reality TV star.

Adam Grant [54:20]: "The first three months were an absolute whirlwind. I was going to Dubai, LA, and my life felt like a movie."

Chloe adds her perspective on handling negative comments and the importance of building a supportive inner circle to mitigate the pressures of public life.

Coping Mechanisms and Self-Improvement

The conversation transitions to strategies for managing anxiety and ADHD, emphasizing the role of self-awareness, therapy, and healthy communication in relationships. They highlight the significance of setting boundaries and prioritizing mental well-being.

Adam Grant [55:23]: "Sometimes life is really just five years was such a long time. When I came out, I spiraled but I chose to focus on what makes me happy."

Upcoming Projects and Future Plans

Chloe shares insights into her new documentary series, Dating in the Wild, which explores the evolving landscape of dating among Gen Z, moving away from digital platforms towards in-person interactions.

Adam Grant [64:45]: "It's about speed dating based on hobbies, ditching the dating apps. It's a big shift."

Chloe expresses excitement about expanding her horizons beyond dating-focused content, aiming to produce more diverse and immersive projects.

Interactive Segment: Eight Questions

In a fun and revealing segment, Jamie and Chloe answer eight rapid-fire questions that offer listeners a glimpse into their personalities, fears, and aspirations.

• Favorite Saying:

  Adam Grant [72:20]: "Dinner time."

• Best Compliment Received:

  Adam Grant [72:32]: "Someone on Snapchat said I'm like a rom-com in real life."

• Fears About Themselves:

  Adam Grant [72:42]: "Drunk Chloe. She should be locked up."

• Last Time They Cried:

  Adam Grant [73:21]: "Last week, watching TikToks about army soldiers coming home."

• Guilty Pleasure:

  Adam Grant [74:23]: "Eating Marmite with a spoon."

• Turn-offs:

  Adam Grant [75:00]: "Bad manners, no sense of drive, dirty trainers."

• What Turns Them On:

  Adam Grant [75:48]: "A good snog, especially a good tongue snog."

• What They Love Most About Themselves:

  Adam Grant [76:11]: "My sense of humor."

This segment not only adds a lighthearted touch to the episode but also deepens the audience's understanding of both Jamie and Chloe.

Closing Thoughts

Jamie concludes the episode by praising Chloe's openness and authenticity, reiterating the importance of genuine conversations in a world dominated by filters and superficial interactions.

Jamie Lang [76:23]: "I really appreciate your honesty and authenticness. It’s so key in this world of filters."

Chloe echoes this sentiment, encouraging listeners to embrace their true selves and prioritize mental health.

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Key Takeaways:

• Mental Health Awareness: Understanding and diagnosing ADHD can provide clarity and aid in personal growth.
• Navigating Fame: Sudden exposure through reality TV brings both opportunities and significant challenges, including public scrutiny and anxiety.
• Healthy Relationships: Recognizing toxic relationship patterns and prioritizing self-respect are crucial for personal well-being.
• Authenticity Matters: Being genuine and open in conversations fosters deeper connections and personal satisfaction.

Recommended Resources:

• Chloe Burrows' Podcast: Chloe versus the World
• Adam Grant's Documentary: Dating in the Wild
• John Ronson's Book: The Psychopath Test

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This episode offers a heartfelt and unfiltered look into the lives of Chloe Burrows and Adam Grant, providing listeners with valuable insights into personal struggles, growth, and the quest for authentic connections in both personal and public spheres.

Transcript

[Adam Grant]

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[Jamie Lang]

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[Adam Grant]

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[Jamie Lang]

Can you do that for me?

[Adam Grant]

All a father needs is a fighting chance. Everybody is looking for you. What do you do?

[Jamie Lang]

I'll keep you safe.

[Adam Grant]

Promise.

[Jamie Lang]

She rides shotgun.

[Adam Grant]

Rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent. In theaters Friday.

[Jamie Lang]

Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Lang, and this is great company. Well, hello, everybody.

[Chloe Burrows]

We have to start without you saying, well, you need a new way of saying, hello, Jamie. And I'm keeping all of this in.

[Jamie Lang]

Good morning, good afternoon, good night.

[Chloe Burrows]

No, no, I want something new. Something you've never done before.

[Jamie Lang]

We have a great show for you today.

[Chloe Burrows]

Oh, punchy. Okay, nice.

[Jamie Lang]

We do have a great show for you today. We have Chloe Burrows on the episode. Chloe is best known for being on Love Island.

[Chloe Burrows]

Yes. She'd be straight in, though.

[Jamie Lang]

I know. Well, I'm sorry. You didn't. You. You've made me not preheat the oven. I've gone straight in.

[Chloe Burrows]

Oh, yeah, we're cooking. We're cooking sausages in a cold oven here.

[Jamie Lang]

Great saying. I love that.

[Chloe Burrows]

I dare you to use that again today in a meeting. We've got a meeting later. Use that in the meeting.

[Jamie Lang]

What? We're cooking cold sausages in an oven today.

[Chloe Burrows]

No, I don't know how you.

[Jamie Lang]

We're cooking cold sausages.

[Chloe Burrows]

We're using sausages in a cold oven.

[Jamie Lang]

We're cooking sausages in a cold oven.

[Chloe Burrows]

That's how starting a meeting and asking people how they are is.

[Jamie Lang]

All right, I'm gonna try and use that in the meeting today, but. Hello.

[Adam Grant]

How are you?

[Jamie Lang]

Good, thank you. I don't know why I'm now going straight into it.

[Chloe Burrows]

Yeah, chill out.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. I'm very excited. Thank you for coming back to the podcast, everyone. Thank you for being fans of it and enjoying it. We love making it, as I always say, and really, really excited for today's guest.

[Chloe Burrows]

And this is Jamie, and I'm PJ producer Jemima.

[Jamie Lang]

This is Jemima, my producer, and I'm Jamie, your host.

[Chloe Burrows]

Okay. Now, Chloe. He's excited.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm very excited.

[Chloe Burrows]

Who is she? Go on.

[Jamie Lang]

Chloe is. She was on Love island in 2021. Since Love island, she's done lots of different things, from doing TV shows to other dating shows to having a podcast, being quite big on digital. And I was really interested to get her on because I love this whole idea of the landscape of Love island, what happens before and after, and especially what it does to you in terms of your career, on your mental state, on lots of different things. She's very open and honest.

[Chloe Burrows]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And I love people who have no filter.

[Chloe Burrows]

She does not.

[Jamie Lang]

She does not in every single way. So I'm excited for this conversation.

[Chloe Burrows]

I'm deeply fascinated. And you fall into this category of people who can have having to do relationships on a public space. Like, I like, as someone who doesn't do that, a normo, I'd like to call myself, like, you know, watching yourself kiss on tv.

[Jamie Lang]

Oh, my God. We talk about that. Breaking up, breaking up, talking about that.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Talk about families, talk about work. Chloe dated a married man without knowing he was a married man.

[Adam Grant]

Yes.

[Chloe Burrows]

I'm really interested in, you know, Love Island. They all say, I'm come here to find love. And you're like, have they really come to find love? Chloe was so smart when she did her. The vt. So the little video they played before, you know, when you introduce the characters, and she said, I'm partial to a married man. And I think that was so smart. She just knew what she needed because then you see when she. And then she. And I remember watching it and being like, who the hell is this woman? And then she comes on and I'm like, oh, she's wonderful. She is not that type of.

[Jamie Lang]

She's just.

[Adam Grant]

She's.

[Chloe Burrows]

Yeah, she just knew kind of what she needed to say, but I just think that's really smart. Yeah, but I just like, it is a game and like, being open about being like, it's a game. I'm coming on here for that.

[Jamie Lang]

I love that.

[Chloe Burrows]

Respect it.

[Jamie Lang]

So we have Chloe coming on and we're very excited about it. Remember, if you haven't subscribed to our show already, please do. It does us wonders. I just cannot tell you how much it does for us. And if you. I. I know the eyes are closed. I'm saying it. And remember, you can get in touch with us at Great Company Podcast on Instagram. Slide into our DMs. We see them All. Or you can send us an email. Great. Companyproductions.co.uk Everything is in the show description. Also, if you are wanting to watch the full video with Chloe, you can go onto our YouTube channel, great company and see it all there.

[Chloe Burrows]

Jamie and Chloe look related.

[Adam Grant]

I think we look very similar.

[Chloe Burrows]

You're both wearing. Well, you've got navy trousers and a white top and she was wearing all navy.

[Jamie Lang]

Go check it out.

[Adam Grant]

Hair color.

[Chloe Burrows]

Check it out, check it out.

[Jamie Lang]

Are you ready for this?

[Chloe Burrows]

Oh, Chloe's also got a new show coming out. It's about dating. Can I ask her about it?

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, I'm going to. Of course.

[Chloe Burrows]

Good lad.

[Jamie Lang]

Are you ready for this?

[Adam Grant]

I am.

[Jamie Lang]

Here we go, Jemima. Enjoy this episode of Great Company with Chloe Burrows.

[Adam Grant]

I'm Chloe Burrows and I am in Great Company.

[Jamie Lang]

Biggest ick.

[Adam Grant]

It's probably like turn up. What, of myself?

[Jamie Lang]

No, in life.

[Adam Grant]

None. Biggest ick in life. Maybe bad teeth or is it meant to be like a deep aggression?

[Jamie Lang]

No, no, that's it. That's it.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, what is it all like bad breath. Oh, roadman. What? And that's all I attracted after Love Island. I checked my DMs. I was like, you'll be. Oh. Because I get a lot. A lot of people watch my stuff in jail. Yeah, they do. No, they do. And I've been told and on Snapchat it's like, oh, sweet one, can I take you out? Not today. I don't like that. Especially if you're 30 and you speak like a roadman. My hyper fixation is like reading and I love, love books like Romantasy, Smut and Booktok is huge.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm not even kidding. I've read this book. Okay, so Sophie was. She's not very tactile in any way whatsoever. Like, she's really not like, like a finger on my leg and that's like what I get. And she's just really not.

[Adam Grant]

Fair enough.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, fair enough. But there was this one night where she. She's reading this book and it's by. It's called like the Housemaid or.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, good book.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Housemaid. And the always the. The sort of people in it sort of are quite good looking and hot. Anyway, yeah, she suddenly came downstairs and like, like started like snog me and I was like, what the hell is going on? I was like taken aback. I'm not. That's never happened. I was like, what the hell? And I so was like, this is weird what's going on? And then she got angry at me. Anyway, she. She let me borrow the book afterwards. So I was reading the book, right? I got to the chapter where they start having sex and I was a bit like, this is friggin great.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, yeah, that's what's up.

[Jamie Lang]

And then I was like, that's why she was trying. Because of this.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

I've never realized books can do that.

[Adam Grant]

Oh my God. My boyfriend was in for a treat when we went to the Maldives. I read this one called Fourth Part. You read it? Best book ever.

[Jamie Lang]

Wait, what's it called?

[Adam Grant]

Fourth Wing. And it's about dragons riding dragons. Like, sh. Everyone's got powers. But it's like, you know, there's a lot of sexual tension. And I've been reading this book. I put it down, like, right, pants off, let's go. And it was like, so good. Are you serious?

[Jamie Lang]

It's that good?

[Adam Grant]

Honestly, it's like a. It's so. I don't know, it's palpable when you're reading the book. And I think it's my go now. I've read about these.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you know, like, not. It's not again, like. But that's what you realize the difference between like men and women are like. Men are literally like, like dogs. Like, can we just have sex? Like, that's what. Like, why can't we just have sex? Women, you need to like, you need to build up. They need to build up and the emotion and everything towards it.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Tip to men out there. Don't just say that. Because I think that was my problem with Sophie. Oh, let's just, you know, come on.

[Adam Grant]

I had to say that to my boyfriend. Like, do you want to have sex with me? Like, yeah, but give me a minute. Like now, you know, you've ruined it. And obviously consent is sexy, but you, when you just turn around, it's like, sure, we have sex. Like, oh, yeah, great. Wait for you to ask, man. No, no.

[Jamie Lang]

So what advice? So what is the best advice to do in a relationship like that? How do you. How do you. How do you ease it into that? What is a great way?

[Adam Grant]

Well, read smart books. You must.

[Jamie Lang]

So go and buy that and put it on your partner's pillow. Have a read of this and put a little post it note in the little chapter.

[Adam Grant]

I think. Well, I just had to break it down. I don't think I'm very good at like delivering bad news, but I was like, when you turn around and say, can we have sex? It makes me hate you. So don't do that anymore. And he doesn't.

[Jamie Lang]

I have a great friend. Not Jemima here, but another friend called Jemima who. She left a voice note on Sophie's phone. I overheard it. We just had a wedding. And she said, she said, I couldn't sleep last night because my husband was trying to have sex with me for two hours. I then had to move into the bathroom because I was like, wanted to sleep. Is that what it's like in relationships? Sometimes, yeah. I just think, am I like that? Am I like?

[Adam Grant]

So, yeah, but I think you just get into, I've made up my mind, I'm going to bed now, I'm going to sleep. Like, shagging isn't on that menu, you know? And then if you like, if I'm trying to sleep and someone's trying to stick you on you, like, where's the romance? I'm just being rubbed by a boner. I'm not loving this. Like, does that mean I must take my pants off?

[Jamie Lang]

No.

[Adam Grant]

And like, stop, stop. But then, you know, it's like kicking a puppy, isn't it? Like, no, down. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

When did you find out you had adhd?

[Adam Grant]

After Love Island. I didn't know before and talk me through it. So on the show you have like a welfare and a psychiatrist and they kind of watch you and then they follow you after the show. And she said to me straight after, like, our first catch up after a week. And she was like, and obviously, how's your adhd? And I was like, pardon, you've got adhd? I was like, no, that's new. So I thought, okay. So I asked my mum, my dad, my brothers, of course, got it. So then I thought, right, I'm just gonna go to a doctor. So I went to one and he was like, yeah, for sure. But I wasn't quite convinced because it was like a half an hour session. I'd spent a bit of money, I thought, okay, I'm gonna get a second opinion, spend like three hours with someone. And then they were like, yeah, you, you have big adhd. All right, all makes sense.

[Jamie Lang]

I, I had the, I did the same thing. So I thought I had it as a, as a kid, I was kind of diagnosed. But you just, someone just told me you got adhd, right? So I didn't really think about it. Then recently I went to go and get a test and probably the same as you, you're a bit like, everyone has adhd. Like, how does that change my life? But then you get properly diagnosed after like a three hour thing going back in history, looking at Reports or whatever it is and they tell you. But for me it didn't really. It wasn't like a light bulb moment. It didn't really change much for me. Was it for you?

[Adam Grant]

Yes, I know now I've got an excuse, I think for a lot of things. So actually I was really pleased with it. But a lot of things like growing up made sense and now I'll get like a hyper fixation. Obviously I know the terminology now and that makes a lot of sense. Like I had a drum kit going, going up and then I had a PlayStation. I was like, it's just all of this stuff made a lot of sense. And then at uni I had to. I remember when I was like doing my degree and I'd be in the library and everyone be sweating it and I would have like headphones on with music friends playing on a laptop and like doing mind maps because I was just really trying to stimulate myself to get the information. And everyone said it was really odd and I, I found it odd that other people didn't need to like watch, listen, entertain yourself to do stuff. But no, I think it just, yeah, just gave me an excuse and an answer.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you know, that's so interesting. I had the same experience with that. Right. Which is where I couldn't understand at school or university where people could sit in and focus. Yeah. For that long. It was like. It was my. I went to Leeds University.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And I didn't have a library card until my last term of my last year because I just couldn't concentrate in any way whatsoever. It was, that's what I found really hard. And so then learning that, it was a bit like, okay, now I kind of get it.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

But then the hyper, hyper fixation. That's because I used to, I used to hyper fixate on things like breathing and.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, tell me more. I haven't had that one yet.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm sure it's coming now I've said it. Get ready. Yeah, well, I don't know, I think because of my adhd, what I didn't realize is that like you had. I. I sort of hyper focused on lots of different things and then when you're in a negative spin, you focus on the negative.

[Adam Grant]

Oh yeah, for sure.

[Jamie Lang]

Have you had that?

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, but you know, that's now part of my task of the day. Get up, think about all the bad things and then that, that's my mood for the day. And then sometimes I forget to do that and then it's fine. But yeah, I think like, say like, mean comments. I'll get up and I'll see that. And all day I think, oh, my God, I'm the worst person in the world. Everyone hates me. Everyone hates me. And it's really bad. But it's. It's. I'm so used to it now, I don't think it impacts me. Do you know what I mean? Because when I'd go to uni, maybe I'd go out with all my friends and maybe I would. I mean, drug clothes, a different subject, but maybe I would say something bad. Like, there's anxiety and then there's hyper fixating on that situation. I'm like, I actually can't see anyone.

[Jamie Lang]

Explain that to me. What do you mean?

[Adam Grant]

So, you know, like, everyone gets anxiety and they're like, oh, I said something bad. But then I will then replay that conversation all day, and then for days I'll think about it until I do something bad again. So actually, when I was at it with my friends, I know I made a bit of a comment. I won't repeat it. But then I.

[Jamie Lang]

What did you say? Come on, just give it to me. This is a safe space.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm gonna share everything with you. You can share everything with me. This is a deal.

[Adam Grant]

My friend got a bit too drunk, and it's even me or him. And I just said, oh, I'm just so bored of, like. Like, it's always you. And then he was like, it's always you. And I just thought, well, thank God it's not me today. It's not even that bad. But it's just even me or him. That's always my smash. I was. I'm so bored of it. Like, so bored of you doing that. And he was, I'm bored of you. And then I just thought about, oh, yes, I was nonverbal yesterday because I felt so bad. And I texted him this morning, like, oh, I'm really sorry. I'll never get all of it. Which is a lie. I probably will, but I just had to repair the situation. And he said, oh, it's so fine. It's so fine. But I had to call my other friend to talk about it on the way here because I was like, God, it's really bad.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you think because of your personality, because the way you are, because you're upbeat and quite energetic, that some people get the wrong idea, that actually you can be pretty sensitive and the things that you say you actually do think about and people don't realize you're like that?

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, for sure. But I Think People obviously see all the stuff of me online and obviously when I'm at work or there's a camera and I'm switched on, so, like, they get that version of me. But then when I'm at home, like, I'm non verbal, I'm not chatty, like, you know, I obviously live with Millie. I spend more time like in my room, like, not speaking because I think you, you do give, like so much of yourself on camera.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

So then that's when I'll sit and like, think. And I think people would be surprised, like, to know that it is sensitive. But I'm not, you know, getting myself down about it. I'll feel bad, but it won't, like, impact. It's un. It's not going to change the route of my day. Do you know what I mean? Because you have to just keep going.

[Jamie Lang]

Are you introverted, extroverted?

[Adam Grant]

I. A bit both. I'm, I think, fake it till you make it. So in a group of people, I know that they expect me to be loud, so I'll be loud and like, be that person. But before I go, like, say if I'm meeting someone who I, like, practice the interaction in my head and I'm like, what am I going to say? Like, what? I even do it when Millie comes home, which is like, I've lived with her roommate. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like, oh, I haven't seen her in a few days. Like, what do I need to say? I'm like, oh, hi, you are. And then I'll kind of think of all the things I need to tell it have happened. Not that I haven't text all day, but I'm like, oh, my God, like, have you seen this on TikTok? And I'll know what I'm going to say.

[Jamie Lang]

Wait, hold on, let's get it. But that's the funny thing about this, right. Which I learned from podcasting. You've done it from podcasting, is that everyone is so different, but also at the same time. We all have the same things and we think the way that we interact or do things is so unique. But actually when you talk about it, you go, God, I have that, I have that. I have that.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So when you were going to meet me today, did you have you played that out in your head?

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, yeah. But I've been a fan of you for age, so it's very easy to, like, have things in your back pocket. But say if I was meeting someone that I didn't really know and had nothing to say. You've got like, I always have ice, icebreakers in my back pocket. I'm like, oh, thank God for the weather at the moment. We can just talk about the weather. Yeah, I know.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay, wait, so. So throw me some of your icebreakers that you're good. So what do you go? So if you, if you're going to meet someone, you're going into a big meeting.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. And it's about one of your documentaries you're going to do and you want to nail it and you want to get it. What are you going to the meeting with? What do you say?

[Adam Grant]

The classic is all like. Because obviously London's awful for traffic. Awful. And they'll be like, oh, where did you. I'll ask them, oh, where did you travel from? And then they'll say, and I always like, oh my God, I love it around there. They have the best cafes. I don't know, I've barely been anywhere in London and I'm exposing myself. But then they feel comfortable and then they start talking about it and then it takes pressure off me because now they're talking about them. Do you know what I mean?

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. So what do you think? What do you think your superpower is? If you had a superpower? Because I think as humans, we all have superpowers.

[Adam Grant]

I think my dad actually said this the other day. He was like, you're really good at disarming people. Because I think I shock them with how open and honest I am. So they then feel quite comfortable around me because I'll tell you something awful and embarrassing, like, no shame. So then they're like, oh, well, if she doesn't care about that, then why do I care? Which I find in my pod. I'll give one embarrassing story and it's like a trade off, isn't it? I think I'm quite good at that. Breaking the ice quite quickly.

[Jamie Lang]

Where do you think you learned that? Because I, that's exactly what I'm quite good at doing.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And as a host or as a person, that means you can, you, you can, you can disarm the room.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So straight away that they feel comfortable. And when someone feels comfortable, that's when they start telling you stories or feel like they're friendly with you. Where did you learn that, do you think?

[Adam Grant]

I. Maybe when I was cold calling, you know, because I was bad. I used to cold call for a bit before I went on Love island in like sales and I was imagine, you know, I would call older men who had like Big companies, imagine them answering the phone to me like they're not serious. And then I would just like, oh, you know, how's. I'd kind of Google where they were from and then just start talking to them about that. Or, you know, I'd Google image where their building was, whatever, and it was about that. So now I think maybe that's a skill. I don't know. But I've always been an attention seeker, so maybe I realize when the attention's on me, then people want to get involved. Maybe it's that I don't know where I got it from.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay, so you go on Love Island.

[Adam Grant]

I did.

[Jamie Lang]

I want, I need every detail of how, like, how does that happen? What, what happens? Do they send you a message? Do you do interview. What goes down when that happens?

[Adam Grant]

Okay, so I had a friend of a friend who was an exec on a few shows and they were trying to get me to go on Celebs Go dating as a deity for Wayne Lineker and Tom Zanetti. But I had.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, that's combo. That's a big.

[Adam Grant]

And I almost did it. Joking. I did it.

[Jamie Lang]

I did it a little bit.

[Adam Grant]

I lost about you for a bit. But no. So they. So she was trying to get me and I had this call, but I had a job like in finance. So I, after cold calling got moved to because I got my degree in marketing. I was like head of the digital marketing bit for this like finance company. I thought this is not worth the risk because I would be so sad. Like, there's no way you can go to like financial services after being on TV snogging Wayne. That doesn't happen. So I thought, no, this isn't worth the risk. And then they called again for James Lockey. And I thought, no, don't want to do that either. Like, no, no shame to him. But I thought, if I'm getting air time, it's got to get me a new job. I mean, I'm getting so sacked. Because I thought, no, not that one.

[Jamie Lang]

And then they call me entrepreneurial view to think like, if this is a stepping stone, it has to offer me something. The risk versus reward has to be good.

[Adam Grant]

Well, actually, if you want the truth, I was interviewing for other jobs, but I could not get a job. I thought, well, if I'm sacked, I'm actually. Because I haven't got a job and I've got one. Imagine if I'm unemployed and not being able to interview. Like, I can't.

[Jamie Lang]

You can't do that.

[Adam Grant]

Okay, so then there Was this other show when on itbt, I can't remember what it's called, but it was basically one single girl and 12 boys. And six of them had taken. Six of them are single. And she had to, like, date them all. And at the end she would pick one and if he was single, they'd split the money. But if he was taken, him and his girlfriend would take the money anyways. That was the premise of the show. So I was thinking that. I thought, should I do it? Should I do it? Should I do it? And I've got. That was like a few zoom calls, because I think it was Covid. And then at the end I was like, I just don't know if I should. And then the girl forgot her name. Georgia.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

She was like, okay, I actually know exactly what show you should be on. She was like, right, I'm gonna pass your number along, Whatever. And then the next day I was working from home and I just got a call and it was like, is that Chloe? I was like, yeah. They were like, do you want to go for a long hot summer? I was, yeah. I was like, yeah, I do. What do you want? So they'd obviously had my details from producers. And then I think I jumped on a zoom the next day and they just asked me a bit about myself dating history. And I was just saying whatever I thought would get me on that show. And then they called me down to London. They said, yeah, you're going to be the first bombshell. And that was kind of signed to, delivered in a month. And I knew when I was flying out because I said some horrific stuff.

[Jamie Lang]

Probably because I think what you. You're. You're entrepreneurial, like, yeah, 100%. Because I can see it in the way that you sort of view things, which is a really good way. You're not sort of part of the system. You're always looking at ways, how can something offer me and if I need to get it, how am I going to find. If I want to get something, going to find a way of getting it. Yeah, right. That's always the. Always the really good way of doing things. I always think, what horrific stuff did you say in the interview?

[Adam Grant]

Oh, I'm sure you might have seen a clip if you use TikTok or social media. I basically said that I'm partial to a married man and they loved it. The story of that, I have addressed it a few times. Basically, when I worked in finance, I met this man. We fell in love. Obviously he was my new hyper fixation. And Then I found out he had a wife and kids, and I dumped him. But obviously I oversold it because the producer's like, oh, do you like married men? And I was like, I fucking love married men. Because I was getting on that show regardless. You. And they ask you questions like, what if a girl tried to move to a man? I'd be like, well, it's not friend. I learned, like, no girl can ever take a man from me. I didn't mean it, but I knew what they wanted me to say. Like, I'm not dumb. So I just gave her what they wanted.

[Jamie Lang]

So there's a few things. Firstly, how not everyone knows that, oh.

[Adam Grant]

Come on, it's love. I take your man. You're not gonna be like, have a nice chat.

[Jamie Lang]

No fight for him. But. But I think no one. That's. That's confidence. Like. Like whether you're meaning to be confident or it's. It's just like, no, if I'm being so honest here, like, if someone. If someone got me an interview and said that, I would be a bit like, oh, I don't know. I'd probably chat about it and, like, see if, like, we could, like, work out some sort of deal. Like, that's what I would have done. Like, having not had the TV experience. Like, having had the TV experience. Now I know what they want. But being naive to the situation, which you were. How do you. Knowing what they want? That's unique, man. I'm not. It is 100 unique, perhaps.

[Adam Grant]

But then I spoke to Millie. Millie said the same thing. I think everyone who goes on there is a bit bullshking. Well, on our season, it was like, quite all of us, like, you can't talk to my man.

[Jamie Lang]

You know, the married man.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. What a guy.

[Jamie Lang]

When you find out they have a family.

[Adam Grant]

I was heartbroken.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm sure you were.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. Just another awful person.

[Jamie Lang]

No, but how do they hide that from you? Where? I mean, sorry to be graphic, but where were you guys, like, sleeping together? Like, would you wear, like, no doubt? And that was not a flag.

[Adam Grant]

Something you've learned. I don't see red flags. Like, I just. I just want that man. So, yeah, you were literally, like, I.

[Jamie Lang]

Guess this guy lives in a hotel. Like, he obviously just lives in a hotel.

[Adam Grant]

I thought he was, like, flexing his cash and I thought, great. I love hotels. Please.

[Jamie Lang]

Were you not ever, like, don't have.

[Adam Grant]

Common sense when it comes to boys? Like, I'm aware. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

But after, like, the. Whatever. The fifth time in the. We, like, should we not go, like, back to like, cook food or something. Like, why are we doing?

[Adam Grant]

I was loving bed and breakfast, but this is. He would leave.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay, here we go.

[Adam Grant]

He would leave and he. He had quite a good job. So he would leave and I would think, oh, okay. Like, he has to. I. Looking back now, I am an idiot. You know, I'm a fool. Yeah, but whatever.

[Jamie Lang]

You're in love.

[Adam Grant]

I thought he was amazing. Like, I actually. I remember the first time I met him when I went back to work and I said to my. I was like, I believe in love at first sight. I've actually just fallen in love. Like, I can't believe he's not tried to call me up. And then he did the next day, but I was so shocked. I was like, oh, my God, I love him. So I just went with it.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So to go a bit. So when you find out he's married.

[Adam Grant]

It was so bad. My age. Yeah. I literally was in love. Like, I thought, wow, endgame, amazing. My manager mentioned it, and then my heart fell out my ass. I was at work, I was like, oh, my God, what do I do? And then he kind of. I kind of spoke with him and he was like, yeah, I thought, right, well, we're done. Then obviously, I think he thought I knew. And I obviously was so, like, dumb.

[Jamie Lang]

Because you were taking it back and it's just like, man.

[Adam Grant]

So then that was kind of that.

[Jamie Lang]

And you look in that situation, that's when anger steps in and you kind of think, well, I'm heartbroken, I'm hurt. I can either just leave this or I can be angry. What did you do? Do you just leave it?

[Adam Grant]

I just left it. It's not worth the act. And also, my manager was the one to deliver the bad news to me. Like, I'm at work. I have to work. I actually can't make this a big deal. So, yeah, I just left it.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you know if he saw you in Love Island?

[Adam Grant]

Absolutely no clue. I haven't got a clue. We haven't spoke. So this is when I was like 21, maybe 22.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. So you go on Love Island.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

You're the bombshell when you go in. When you go in as the bombshell, how nerve wracking is.

[Adam Grant]

Was an out of body experience. I don't know how I did that. They kind of said, you pull up. And they always say to you as well, like, the pressure's on. They say, you are not in that villa until you are in that villa. Like, even if you're Waiting outside. They might turn around and say, actually, no, you know, and you don't want to do anything wrong. So I thought, I'm going in that villa. They put me in a port cabin.

[Jamie Lang]

In a porter cabin.

[Adam Grant]

They have loads. Well, they did. I don't know if it's changed, but they had, like, porter cabins outside the villa. I don't know what for. They were like, all the way up the road and I was held in there and I had my chaperone. And we. They don't really. They didn't really tell me what was going on. I knew I was gonna be a bombshell. But it was day one, so they were all doing the coupling. So I must have got there like 3pm and I was just sat. Oh, I got my hair and makeup done. And I thought, yes, please, I shouldn't have done that. I looked unwell, but got my hair and makeup done. And then they kind of do the outfit options. And then they came around and said, okay, right, so what you're gonna do is you're gonna send a voice note saying you're outside the villa and give the boys an option to come and meet you. I thought, what, you set me up here? Just let me walk in and say hello and pull someone for chat. So I was like, okay. Obviously I didn't say anything. I was like, great, can't wait. That's exactly what I wanted to do today. And then they came around and were making me do this voice note. And I was so nervous and I had to be like, he, boys, I'm outside. This voice came out of me inside. She's like, hey, boys, Chloe here. I don't. I've never spoke that way since. I don't know. Yeah, hey, boys, Chloe here. I'm outside the villa. I kept doing it and they're like, can you make it sexier? I was like, no. So I did that. And then they. They just led me up. They didn't tell me who was coming. How many to kind of throw you in?

[Jamie Lang]

What is the experience like being in there? Like, for someone who. Someone who knows it, but also who doesn't. It's. It's pretty real. Like, it's obviously structured in a way. I know tv, there's producers and things this. But it's pretty organic, pretty real. It's a big brother house, but sexy, fun and with a swimming pool.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

It was just surreal. It's much smaller in real life. I remember walking, thinking, oh, my gosh. But I think I don't really remember like, how I felt during the first week. But it's intense and it's like, go, go, go. And then I think I kind of clocked on earlier because the producers will pull you in the morning and at night and they kind of suss where your head's at for the day and what you want to do. And then perhaps they'll say, oh, why don't you go and have this chat? It's not. You need to say this. Do you know what I mean? And they'll kind of nudge you along. But it was very go, go, go. I remember because I didn't really, like, I got along with the girls, but we weren't like besties, because obviously I was the first bombshell. They'd already, like, made their group on the first day, so they did that. And then I didn't really have. I was probably closest to, like, Kaz and Lib when I first went in there, but then there was a whole situation with Toby. Kind of put the cat among pigeons. And then Millie and Lucinda came in, and that kind of changed my whole experience because we just got along, like, from the second we met. And then it was just became a lot more, like, fun and less serious. Because when you're in there, like, you're fighting for your life.

[Jamie Lang]

You are. Right. That's exactly what it is.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. And it's intense. And you. There is a pressure, you know, to go and speak to that boy. And I've met these boys for two days. I got a fucking clue. They are. Oh, and I'm sharing a bird. Like, it's very. You just. You've got to take it in your stride and just go, go, go. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And you've also. You also think in your head, you're like, I've made the decision to do this.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And so now I'm in the situation where I'm now going to be on Love Island.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

That means that my life back home is going to change in lots of different, especially from going into, like, getting a job and things like that. Because people, rightly or wrongly, are probably going to view you in a. In a different light.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jamie Lang]

And so then you're thinking, well, I have to make this work.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. And I thought you. I've got to be in here more than four weeks. Like, I actually knew in my head to make it worth it, I haven't got a job when I go home. Like, I've actually got to be in here. So. Wow.

[Jamie Lang]

That's quite like a defining, like, thing to have, like, because I remember when I did Made in Chelsea. Like, I remember that's what my thought process was. It was like, okay, I've decided to go down this show. Doing a reality show.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

That means this life of going down wealth management or being a broker.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Or whatever I was wanting, that's now gone.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So I've got to make this work.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And that, that was very. Anxiety. I had a lot of anxiety because of that. Because I was like, I now have no plan B. Especially at that age when it's all a lot in the air. It's quite a lot.

[Adam Grant]

You're right. Like the birth of like people being famous of like on social media, like, that's even more pressure. I feel like people from IC's numbers love Island. Been on a minute. There was kind of a blueprint as.

[Jamie Lang]

Such, hooking up with people on camera. Weird.

[Adam Grant]

Didn't care. I think. No, it was.

[Jamie Lang]

Have you ever watched yourself? I've watched myself. No, I can't, man. I've watched myself kiss. I look like a dementor. I'm like, someone suck out their soul. I like, what am I doing?

[Adam Grant]

I can't do that. I physically will not ever be doing that. I don't need that embarrassment. I can live by happily. I think because you do it a lot. You're just non stop snogging in there. Games perhaps, you know, so you can't really think it's a big deal. Everyone else is doing it and there's, you know, 20 of you or whatever and there. So you just have to kind of get over it. I do remember, like I snugged Hugo. I thought that was a weird kiss. Then you just have to get over it because something else is happening. You don't have a lot of time for like, what do you mean?

[Jamie Lang]

It was a weird kiss because we.

[Adam Grant]

Were in a friendship couple and it was like, we're in a challenge and then, you know, we were half naked, covered in pain. And then like all of a sudden was nogging and I was like, oh, okay, let's go. Like, it was just very strange. A lot of what we did was strange. There was one where I dressed up like a cat and I'd like milk poured over me. And then I was nogging again. Like, what the. It was.

[Jamie Lang]

Oh my God. But people also have sex on it, right?

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, chugging was everywhere and that was it, really.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, but people don't. They don't show it really, do they?

[Adam Grant]

No, they do tell you, like, look, we're not shooting a porno. It's Love island. Like, so you're kind of like, great, well, I'll crack on. Great. This Friday, starring Taron Edgerton. Holly Dangerous men are coming for us. I want you to be brave. Can you.

[Jamie Lang]

Can you do that for me?

[Adam Grant]

All a father needs is a fighting chance. Everybody is looking for you. What do you do?

[Jamie Lang]

I'll keep you safe.

[Adam Grant]

Promise.

[Jamie Lang]

She rides shotgun.

[Adam Grant]

Rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent. In theaters Friday.

[Jamie Lang]

Hello, everyone. I'm Jamie from Nearly Parents Podcast.

[Adam Grant]

And I'm Penny, Jamie's mum.

[Jamie Lang]

You're on the podcast today, aren't you?

[Adam Grant]

I am.

[Jamie Lang]

What do we talk about?

[Adam Grant]

We talk about childbirth. I give you lots of advice.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. We talk about sex and relationship questions.

[Adam Grant]

We talk about your conception.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. And you find out what a wizard's sleeve is.

[Adam Grant]

I can't even remember what a wizard's sleeve was.

[Jamie Lang]

Well, find out what it is on the podcast and listen to Nearly Parents wherever you get your podcasts. What were you like as a kid? Where'd you grow up?

[Adam Grant]

I'm from Bicester, so. Grew up there. Went to, like, state school. I was. What was I like as a kid? I played sports. That was probably my hyper fixation back there. But I loved school. I was good in school until I was. Maybe when I was six. When I was at. Was that 17?

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

And then I discovered boys in the park fields with little tinnies of white lightning or whatever. So I started doing that for a bit and then. Yeah, but I think it was cool. I just. I loved learning. I loved being, like, around, like, everyone. I had an all right group of mates, I suppose. It wasn't, like, you know, anything. Nothing to report home about. But if anyone's been to Bicester, you'd know there's not really a lot to do, so.

[Jamie Lang]

Parents still together?

[Adam Grant]

No, they broke up when I was 15.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, that's always the.

[Adam Grant]

It's always the kicker. It's always the kicker. But I think I was. I'm the oldest of four, so I think I kind of saw it coming anyways. I wasn't surprised. And then it was like, oh, there's three other kids there who are younger than me, so come on, let's get it together.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

But I. Can I. Yeah, go for it. Because I can feel there's maybe like. Like, there's like. Right. My parents got divorced when I was 8.

[Adam Grant]

Right.

[Jamie Lang]

And I remember it, like, for some reason, it was like such a. Such a big moment, like, for me. And I remember the moment where they came and they told Me. And it was. And it's very weird as a child because you think your parents are meant to be together forever.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And when that doesn't happen, it kind of breaks every sort of glass that you think exists.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. And then you don't know what happens next. And then you're like a little bit lost and you're like, okay, well so they're not here, they're not in the same house. So where do I go? And then there's obviously, who's your favorite? I mean that happened for me. It was like, oh, am I speaking to my mum more? Am I speaking to my dad more? I didn't want anyone to feel left out. Like it was a whole thing.

[Jamie Lang]

But yeah, that is a lot.

[Adam Grant]

It was. But then also where I'm from, in Bicester, like it was like less common if your parents were together. Like everyone, you know, something in the water. In Bicester, like most kids in my year parents have been through divorce, so it wasn't like shocking. And I think, I mean my parents weren't the best of friends, so it wasn't a shock. But then it was just, okay, well, where do I go now? Like, oh, am I living here? Am I living with them? Like, what's the right thing to do? And obviously you don't know. And then they're like in the midst of their kind of massive life changing thing. You don't really get all the information. But I suppose you wouldn't as a kid.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, you don't. But then you're kind of left in the dark. And that's the thing when people go through breakups, is they. Because they're dealing with their own situation, they're sort of forgetting about what's happening with the kids and their. Because the kids are going to school, playing sport, whatever it is, you forget. But actually it's pretty hard that whole time.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. I mean it's not nice, is it? Your whole life changes. You don't know what's going to happen next. Obviously I had younger brothers and sisters. Like my youngest brother, he's 10 years younger than me. Like he was a kid. So it was just like, oh God, where are, where are we going? We didn't know where we were going to live. I remember that being such a big thing, but then I suppose. And then everyone else in the family gets involved and it's like you're kind of being dragged everywhere. It was just, it was like really chaotic. But I actually, after Love island, when I went to go see the adhd Matt and he was asking me about when I was like 17 to 19. I can't remember it. And I wonder if that's a knock on. Well, that's what he decided. He was like after your parents divorce and the dust settled. I actually really can't remember what happened in those years. I know I had some sort of boyfriend and like knew where I lived. But then I was thinking our day to day, like nothing significant sticks out. And he was like, well surely there's some things, like everyone's got things every year that stick out. I was like, honestly, no. And I called my friends like from school and they're like, oh, do you remember this? Do you remember this? I was like, yeah, I haven't thought about that obviously since I was like 16, 17, like could you just block it out? So I think that's what happened. Like I don't remember the intricacies of like after the divorce or like when I was kind of in sixth form and then I remember going to uni.

[Jamie Lang]

So all of that period is kind.

[Adam Grant]

Of don't know and I know it was messy and I know like it was very discombobulated with like my parents. I've obviously just decided no, I don't remember.

[Jamie Lang]

I don't remember that moment. Yeah, yeah. I actually had therapy and when I was in the therapy they, the therapist started asking me saying what happened when, when the parents got divorced, what happened? I went, oh yeah, well I then was sent away to a boarding school, right. And they said, well what happened at boarding school? And I couldn't remember.

[Adam Grant]

I got close.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, I could remember being in. I could remember like being in the dormitory but I don't really remember. I remember playing a bit of sport but I couldn't remember anything at all. And which was quite strange. And so then the therapist said, well you should probably bring in one of your parents to talk about it. And so I brought my mum in.

[Adam Grant]

Oh really?

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, which was really interesting. And we sat with each other and she said, do you remember this? Do you remember this holiday? Do you remember? And I went, oh yeah, I haven't. I do remember that but I don't really remember what happened. Yeah, but then I think for me what happened was is that because I had locked it in so much and I had just protected myself, it kind of came out many years later in a probably negative way.

[Adam Grant]

Oh really?

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, a little bit. I like dealt with anxiety and just drank a lot through it.

[Adam Grant]

Oh yeah, that's me, that's actually me. Yeah. I feel like I've been doing that for years. Yeah, but it's fun. Like Dutch courage. You can only do so much and I'm starting to realize it. Yeah, no, I definitely do that. So I dabbled in therapy and I always find I'm, you know, I don't know why I've got this opinion. They are too nice. I could tell you I beat up an old lady on Saturday, and she'd be like, there was a reason you did that. Have compassion for yourself. I'm like, no, I know it's bad. Why have I done this bad thing? And they just kept doing it. I thought, I'm telling you really, really bad things. And like, you know, I'm ashamed. I know I'm ashamed. But, like, why? Why am I doing this? And then she's like, you're thinking too much on it. Oh, no, I'm not.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm actually trying to tell you they've done something bad here.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. So, no, I'm having a break at the minute. Maybe I'll go back.

[Jamie Lang]

Wait, what kind of bad things that do you think you've done that you would, like, do? What things do you regret if you look back on it? Because I can say some things I've done.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. I think especially when I came out of Love Island, I spiraled. I loved partying and I'd go out until whatever time and then I wouldn't show up the next day or the way that I kind of deal with, my brothers and sisters say I really lack empathy, which really surprises me because none of my friends or anyone would say that. And I think after Love island, there was kind of a whole thing going on with my family, which I won't delve too much into. But I was just like, just get over it. Just get over it. Like, why are you so bothered now? I look back and I'm like. When I was speaking to the therapist, I was like, why do I not have time for people's problems? Like, what is. Why do I not want to take that on? She was like, just have compassion. I thought, no, no, that's not helping me.

[Jamie Lang]

That's not helping me right now.

[Adam Grant]

Maybe I got it from her. I get over it.

[Jamie Lang]

So you. You go to university? Where do you go to university?

[Adam Grant]

Liverpool.

[Jamie Lang]

Good fun.

[Adam Grant]

The most fun ever in the whole world. That place should be studied. It doesn't sleep. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can go out all day every day if you want. And I did, but I've not been back there since. Left my peace without Blaze. Love you, Liverpool. But not that much. Yeah. It was so much fun. I loved it.

[Jamie Lang]

Did you go into halls or anything like that or did you go.

[Adam Grant]

I did. I. I went to uni of. And I think I wasn't meant to. I did much better than anyone thought I would do in my A levels. I just randomly pulled out the bag. So I was going to go to Trent or Bournemouth to do marketing.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

Then I got my result. They weren't amazing but they were, you know, way more than I needed to go to the other university. So I went through adjustment, not clearing. I went up.

[Jamie Lang]

Let's go.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. Yes. Where's Best Marketing? Uk. And it was like Newcastle, Liverpool. So I don't know, I just said, oh, Liverpool is. Called them up and they're like, yeah, we'll see you in a year. I thought, great. Because I was taking up here anyways because I had to earn some money. I didn't go traveling or find myself. But yeah, then I went there. I didn't even visit and I just looked, what's the nicest? And it was like Crown Place. I thought, great, I'll stay there. So we went there and obviously I hadn't come from like a minted background or anything. I turned up and it was all like, everyone's got loads of money. Like very unrelatable, very posh. Or like, not from England. I thought, oh, what am I doing here? It was very strange. Yeah. But my friend who I knew from before going to uni, we worked together and she was at the other hall, so I just met her and we made loads of friends that way.

[Jamie Lang]

So you're. You're at Liverpool, you meet all the posh people.

[Adam Grant]

Yes. Hell yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

What did you think of posh people?

[Adam Grant]

It was a culture shock. You know, if someone's be like, where do you summer? And I was like, England, sometimes Portugal. Up to you. Do you know what I mean? I didn't come from like, you know, my background isn't. I would say we were all right, like well off. My dad did well, but then when my mum split, like, that was a whole tumultuous thing. So it's not like I didn't go without holidays and, you know, whatever. But then meeting like rich, rich people, it just blows your mind. And they just had like four phones, new Apple Macs, like, cool. Some of them had Louis Vuitton bags for their laptops. And I was like, this is insane. This is insane. So I bought a fake and I wore it every day. Yeah, no, it was a lot.

[Jamie Lang]

And it's a Bit of a cult shock, isn't it? Because shock I came from.

[Adam Grant]

You did mention boarding.

[Jamie Lang]

Spoiler that.

[Adam Grant]

Just to let you know, now I'm not best friends. I went to boarding school. Like, I think I can get in with them, but when I first met them, it was just like the abundance of things. You know, we go to Tesco's and they were like actually paying seven pound chicken breast fillets. And I thought, I'm getting 16p into me.

[Jamie Lang]

Come on, what does it make you feel? Because I'm going to tell you my experience. Right. So when I first got to Leeds, I remember I went into my. I did drama at Leeds and I got into my first. Whatever it was, and we were talking and one of the girls came up, she said, you're posh. And I went, okay. And I'm like, I'm like 19. I didn't even, really, like, know what the hell's going on.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And she said, I want to ask you a question. You went to a boarding school, right? And I went, yeah. She went. I went to a state school, but we're both at the same place.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So why do your parents pay for your school? And I went, well, I don't really know. But what I. What I felt from my position was that I felt almost at the beginning that I was sort of targeted because. For being posh.

[Adam Grant]

Really.

[Jamie Lang]

But what's interesting is that obviously from the flip side of it, there's an insecurity as well because someone isn't considered posh. And so both sides are feeling insecure, but no one's really talking about it. And that kind of feels like maybe the experience that you had as well. Does that make sense or no?

[Adam Grant]

No, completely does make sense. But I also think when I was at uni, more people were posh than they weren't. Like, they, you know, maybe that was just the circles I was in, but more people were, like, quite well off. Off, like, that I'd met. So it wasn't. I thought maybe it was the other way, but also like, what am I gonna do? You speak better than me. Great. I can mimic you. And I can also speak really great. I just. It was just. It wasn't shocking. Maybe it was, but it was. I was consumed by, like, I loved, like, all the tales that they had. And I thought it was amazing. I thought, yeah, I want to ski every year and I want to go on Thailand for Christmas. Like, I wasn't jealous, you know, I want to do that too.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

So. Yeah. But now all my best friends Are. Gosh.

[Jamie Lang]

Wait, but do you have a boyfriend?

[Adam Grant]

At uni I was in a five year situationship from hell. Hell itself gave me that. I must have done something awful in the past. Yeah, but. So we met when I was in like the first week of union and that went on through union afterwards. But yeah, it was bad. But I think when you're in the thing, you just don't know why you do that. Like I was obsessed with this boy. I thought he was amazing and he would just go and cheat on me every. Well, we weren't together. Who bloody reminded me. And I just forgave him and forgave him and forgave him. Like all of my friends said it was awful, but I was just in the thick of it. But for five years I did that, which was intense. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. But you shouldn't also like brush over it like that. So many people have that.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

When you fall deeply in love with someone.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And they are just everything and they.

[Adam Grant]

Know that they can do whatever. So they do, you know, they do just treat you awfully. But. But I think. Not that it had to happen. I'm kind of glad it did because after that I don't take shit from anyone. I'll never ever. And now when I see other people putting up with it, I just. I don't understand. Like, come on, let's just leave. But everyone was thinking that when I was with him. But no, that was. It was bad. And I would like spend. So he lived in London at the time, obviously. I was at uni Liverpool. Every Friday I would drive town to London to see him and then come back on Sunday. Like that's a fucking long trip. Do you know what I mean? But I don't actually know why I liked him so much.

[Jamie Lang]

Oh man. I could, I can like feel like. Because I just, I. I had my own like heartbreak experience when I was really young. But it wasn't like that. There was no cheap. But I. The heartbreak is just the, the worst thing in the world.

[Adam Grant]

Character defining and. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And also was if you have adhd, the hyper focus.

[Adam Grant]

Oh yeah. It's limerence, isn't it? So I just, you know, I was stuck, to be honest. And then it broke down in. In lockdown and something just snapped in my head and I was like, oh my God, I hate you. Go away. And just never spoke to him again.

[Jamie Lang]

How funny is that? It's like a light switch, isn't it?

[Adam Grant]

No, that's literally what happened. Like I couldn't explain it, because we'd argued 10 billion times. We blocked each other. Well, I never blocked him because obviously I felt like I couldn't, but he blocked me 10 million times. And then I just woke up and I thought, I hate you. Get out. And that was done.

[Jamie Lang]

It sounds quite controlling from him.

[Adam Grant]

It was. Was VV bad? I'd actually say he was narcissist. Like an actual narcissist. It was insane.

[Jamie Lang]

There's a. There's a really interesting guy called John Ronson who wrote a book called the Psychopath Guide or something like that. And we'll find out the name. It's called Guide to a Psychopath or something. I actually interviewed him and.

[Adam Grant]

Wow.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. And I interviewed him with my friend Spencer Matthews, who after that has diagnosed himself as a. As a psychopath. Slight narcissist. Right?

[Adam Grant]

Really?

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. And we. I asked John Ross, I said, if Spencer is a narcissist, what would be your advice? And he said, don't be friends with him. On the. On the podcast, it's called the Psychopath Test.

[Adam Grant]

Is it out? I'm so glad.

[Jamie Lang]

You should.

[Adam Grant]

You should for sure.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. It's a great thing. And you should read the book because lots of people are in relationships with perhaps narcissists or. And you don't realize that you're in the relationship until afterwards when you look back and you're like, what was I doing? Because it's so manipulating, it's so consuming, it's so controlling that you almost feel like you're the one doing something wrong.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, my God. I was apologizing all the time and it was. It's so bad. But if he was in a bad mood, wouldn't speak to me, I could not function. I remember one time, I don't. I think I'd gone on an hour, not answered my phone, and I'm he. Then where was I? I think I was living in London at time. Either way, he'd gone for me and he was like, wow, you're blocked, you slack. Da da, da. And I felt like I was actually having like a heart attack. And I drove to my mum's and I was just on the floor in pieces. She couldn't pick me up. My brother had this huge football tournament. She took me in the car and I was screaming in the car, crying. And then he was having a football tournament and I was crying floods of tears on for. Cause he wouldn't speak to me. So I remember I took my mum's phone and I was like, one for warning, like Please, please speak to me. Like, how has that actually ever happen? Why did I care? It should be studied. But yeah, like, it was so bad. And that was just every weekend. That was stuff like that. Oh, God, it's awful. And then I remember I went on his laptop. I spoke about this in my pod, but I went on his laptop and I saw an actual gallery of, like, videos, pictures of him just, like, with other girls. So I was like, oh, my God, this is awful. So I called him, like, come back from jam. And I cried and I drove home. And then he did. Didn't Me talking. Like, he had the audacity. The man was insane. He didn't even try and call me. Whatever. So I called him and I was like, oh, I'm so sorry for leaving. Like, I look back on it now. I think, what the. Chloe, like, so bad.

[Jamie Lang]

By the way, you shouldn't feel ashamed by any of that. Like. Like, I, like. I know, because I think there's a tendency. I think there's a tendency especially because you're obviously, I can. Like, you're. You're a strong woman. Right.

[Adam Grant]

You're.

[Jamie Lang]

Your opinionated. You're strong. You. You don't take any now. And so looking back at that version of yourself, you. You obviously it's very easy for someone to be pissed off with themselves for allowing someone to do that to them.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

But. But I don't think you should ever feel that. And not that you do, but I think there are a lot of people probably listening now who are going through something similar. Who have been through something similar.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Who probably are pissed off for themselves or ashamed or whatever it is. And you never should be because it's just. Life is sometimes.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, sometimes life is really. It's just five years was such a long time. I always wonder, like, why on earth did that happen? But it did. And thank God he's gone now.

[Jamie Lang]

When you leave the show, how does your life change?

[Adam Grant]

Like, it was insane. I think we were quite lucky, though. So it was not Covid's lucky. But we left and we had to isolate or quarantine because we'd flown from a different country and we all had to get tested. So we had like five days at home with our family to just settle in and just do nothing because you weren't allowed to leave the house. House. So I just went home, chilled, kind of took it all in. Was on social media such a high.

[Jamie Lang]

Such a high.

[Adam Grant]

It's insane. Like, we were in the airport and people, like, taking pictures.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

This is crazy. But we didn't do the rounds of, like, interviews and stuff because we couldn't leave our house. And then I think, like, maybe a week later, it was like, talk of management. I think it's a bit different now because I think you leave and they hold you in London. Then you're doing all radio and GMB and all that. We didn't do any of that because obviously we couldn't leave the house. But that was a mental five days. And then I remember we went out in public and it was just insane. People asking for your pictures, people secretly filming. I went to Tesco's, no makeup on, and this girl was like, oh, my God. I had the camera in my face, like, what the fuck is going on?

[Jamie Lang]

Exciting, thrilling.

[Adam Grant]

But also.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, yeah, I loved it. Good on you, man, for saying that. Do you know what someone always said to me? They were, like, doing Made in Chelsea. I remember we were going around a circle and we were asked, like, early days, why have you done Made in Chelsea? And everyone was giving an answer like, oh, I wanted to do it because of. I thought it was a great social experiment to find out what humans do. I was like, what the is everyone saying? I was like, I just wanted to get laid and, like, be a bit famous. That's what I. And I couldn't believe that people were trying to find an excuse.

[Adam Grant]

What are they getting out of that?

[Jamie Lang]

Good on you, Cl. Because lots of people don't say that a lot of the time.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, they should come on. And also these days, like, well, I'm going on there to meet the lovely life. No one is doing that anymore. We weren't doing it. It just. It is weird, though, because you're in this environment and it's so intense, and you do love that person. So I can vouch for it. But my intentions were just to go on and get famous.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

You know, but obviously I had a different journey, but, yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Did you fall in love with Toby?

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, I was in love with him for sure. It's very, like. I think everyone in there was in love. Like, your emotions are just heightened. But it's like, you know, oh, my God, I love this boy of every single ounce of my being is like. Like, you don't have that in normal life. You don't feel that way when you meet someone for a couple dates. Like, it's very different when you.

[Jamie Lang]

You know, there's a big thing with reality TV as well, right. Is like. And I get this question a lot, but I have to throw it around to, like, both of Us like that aftercare, right? Because we, we really like what happens is on reality tv is you go and do the show and it's everything. You have your food done, you have this done, you have that done, you come out and you're famous and you this and that. And with all these things, like there are only a certain few people who break through that surface and continue in this incredible world of entertainment. You, of course, have done that in all the things you really have. And you're killing it. Right? But there are some people who don't do that. And this life is tough and scary and unpredictable and then people do get themselves in.

[Adam Grant]

I understand. And I can't. Like, I've been really, really fortunate and it is kind of. I. It's more maybe the expectations I set for myself. I was either gonna go all in or I was gonna fall on my ass. And I was determined to make it work. But you have no idea what the audience think of you. I had no idea if I was doing well or if I wasn't well. So when I came out, I was, you know, overjoyed that I'd done better. But you don't understand the public's perception. And it's not a 247 live feed, unfortunately, and editing, etc, so some people do get dealt a bad hand. But you did sign up to do it in a way. I don't know, it's tough.

[Jamie Lang]

But did you, did you, when you came out, did you get. Did you feel anxiety or worry or stress or anything like that?

[Adam Grant]

I think the first three months were just an absolute, absolute blood. It was just an absolute whirlwind. You know, I was all of a sudden going to Dubai and like LA and all this. I'd never been. I was working like jd. It was like my life was a movie. You almost like you get on this treadmill, I think, and you're just waking up and going through the motions. You don't actually sit back and take it all in. And then I think anxiety definitely crept about. Maybe it was after my ADHD diagnosis, I started to become more aware of like me and myself. And then anxiety just creeps in and then you have more time. You. The first six months are just a big blur. Like if you kind of make it to the final, you don't take a minute. And then after that I kind of had more time. And then you start to look at the comments and you're just so self conscious anyways because you think everyone's looking at you all of a sudden. So I'm just more aware of like me, myself, what I'm saying, what I'm doing. So then anxiety like crepts in. But I think maybe in the past two years because the more obviously you do, the more you get like attention and comments and stuff. The past two years I've definitely had like awful anxiety.

[Jamie Lang]

Have you?

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, but it's not uncommon. Yeah, you know, be, it's not debilitating. I just know and you know, double black coffee in the morning doesn't help and I'm very aware but it's, I, I don't know whether it's just me give myself tough love. It's part and parcel. I asked for this and you know, okay, cool. If I feel anxious, then you just do.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, no, I, I, I, I totally hear what you're saying. I think it, it is one of those things. I also think, you know, my wife Sophie said to me once, which I, because for some reason I don't know and I don't want to generalize this but from, only from my personal view, I don't, I don't care about comments. Like I don't care. I actually lean into, I find it funny if someone makes one of my appearance, whatever I, it doesn't phase me.

[Adam Grant]

Maybe that's so good.

[Jamie Lang]

Maybe because I've done it for, I've done it made whatever it was. But Sophie. And it all makes me so upset. Even though Sophie once, she was very upset and I said, and Sophie's tough cookie, right? She's like tough. And she said I'm starting to believe the comments that made me so sad. And I went, you kidding me? This, you, you're, you're believing what these people are saying. And she said it was about a couple years ago and it made me realize that actually especially maybe as a woman, people can be really hard.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, it's, it's disgusting. And I actually was saying the other day, I wish I could just filter out people. You know, the girls are welcome on my page. Unless you are over like 45 and you just hate me. But it's, it's, what I've noticed is it's men and boys, not every single one. But when you start seeing the comments, the way they objectify you and they think you're dumb and they call you a slag, like, it's so disgusting and degrading and frustrating. I just want them off, like, go away. I put up a TikTok the other day saying, oh, I've had a really good weekend because I managed to go to the F1. And I'd read two books and the comments under it are disgusting and like dumb sag. And I just. But the abundance of. It's got like 3.2 million views. And all the comments discussing, I thought, what the has my TikTok done to you for you to take time of your day? And I was looking at them, they're all men or boys, and I think, get off. Go away. No, fuck them.

[Jamie Lang]

Fuck them.

[Adam Grant]

I wish. They need a filter to get rid of. Oh, I just love the girls in the kids. Gays.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

And I'd have a lovely time.

[Jamie Lang]

But, but, but, you know, you just. And for anyone who like any comments like. And this like, relates to, like, it's really tough because you're in the public eye. So people feel they have, like they have. They can comment. Right. Which is one. Firstly one thing, but then I think about, like, kids at school who are, like, getting online bullied just because, I don't know, whatever there wore a pink jumper and someone wants to take the piss. And you. And then as humans, we have to realize that we now live in this space where people just love to comment about it. But those. Those people are idiots.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

They're morons. And it doesn't mean that you're a brilliant, wonderful, beautiful person. Give a. When any of those things.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. Where it's like, it's scientific, isn't it? We look for negative bias, even if there's loads. And I'm like, I'll see one and that's it. And I've started commenting back. If you're allowed to comment on me, I'm coming on you too. I'm thinking, no, meet me outside. I'm not saying that. But they said, oh, it's so ugly. And I say, I'll post a selfie. Or, yeah, if I haven't got time, I am replying, now it's time to take a stand.

[Jamie Lang]

You're in a new relationship.

[Adam Grant]

I am, I am. Poor bloke.

[Jamie Lang]

No, he's good.

[Adam Grant]

He's good.

[Jamie Lang]

You're in love.

[Adam Grant]

I am. I really, really am. He's just like the nicest, best person ever. Yeah, I know. He's so different to anyone I've ever been with. So it's good at the moment.

[Jamie Lang]

And I know you don't like talking about it because you want to keep it kind of private. Right.

[Adam Grant]

I mean, every day I say, this night, wake up. And I just share more on the Internet. So ask away. I'll ask you questions.

[Jamie Lang]

What do you love about him?

[Adam Grant]

He is so understanding. And he's selfless and he really kind of gets me. I think I'm quite hard to deal with because my mood really, really, really fluctuates. And so I know I can be a bit of a handful. But he just completely gets it, knows exactly what I need in that moment. And he just, you know, does everything for me. Not that I don't do stuff for him, but even this morning, getting up, he went downstairs and cleaned the kitchen. You don't even live here. That's amazing.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow.

[Adam Grant]

Clean the kitchen. What a guy.

[Jamie Lang]

10 points.

[Adam Grant]

Yes. Yes.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, we do gold stars.

[Jamie Lang]

I need a run home.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, we do gold stars and devil stars.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you?

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Wait, come on, give me this. What do you mean?

[Adam Grant]

Okay, so if he does anything good, he gets good gold star. But if he does something annoying. Devil star. You've got a devil star.

[Jamie Lang]

And where do the stars go? Is it metaphorical?

[Adam Grant]

Well, I might start doing on post its, but I'll just say it to him like, that's bad. Devil star. But it's good. It's a good way. Like perhaps I'm really immature relationship. It's a good way for me to communicate that you actually do my fucking head in. Because before I go 0 to 100 and I would just scream it in, but now it's like, oh, I had devil star.

[Jamie Lang]

That is a great way.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah. So he knows.

[Jamie Lang]

This is interesting actually, because Sophie. Sophie react went 0 to 100. Yeah, Sophie. And she would be, she would admit it. She goes naught to 100. 100.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And then what would happen is I would then react because I. Because as I didn't understand that there's been little things that I've irritated her.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Throughout this entire time. So my experience was like suddenly naught to 100. And I was like, hang on a second. Why is that happening? Her experience is. No, no, you've done all of these little things. And now I'm annoyed.

[Adam Grant]

Yes.

[Jamie Lang]

And so the communication is so key. So now I've realized that I do a lot of devil stickers.

[Adam Grant]

Devil stars.

[Jamie Lang]

Devil stars.

[Adam Grant]

So does he. God, like I do think that when you kind of have your honeymoon period and then you get the is this actually going to work? Period and you just notice all these. It's not red flags. It's just little, you know, annoying things I don't like. But he obviously knows something about me. And I thought, I wasn't saying. I thought, no, he's a godsend. He's a godsend. He's a godsend. He just did one annoying thing. I think he asked me the same question twice. I just let him have it. I was, oh, my God, I can be the same question all fucking time. Hung up. I felt really bad, but now it's like, oh, okay, just. Why are you asking me, Devil star? You've done.

[Jamie Lang]

That's how you communicate. That's a great way of doing it.

[Adam Grant]

It's working.

[Jamie Lang]

It works well.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

You said your mood can. You can. Sometimes your mood can go.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, changes by the hour. I get up, I'm tired. I'm kind of annoyed. But then he might say something nice, and then maybe it's very hot in the UK at the moment. I'm in hell. I hate it. I hate it. So I'm automatically in a bad mood. And then if he's calling me, he's on the way to work. I just think, what point you bring me right now? And he doesn't, you know, so then I'm annoyed, but then, you know, maybe an hour later, I'm actually ready for work. I'm on time. I'm fine. I'll call him. Right, babe? You guys are what the man. Like, he actually thinks, but he's so used to it now.

[Jamie Lang]

It's a roller coaster sometimes. Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

But I think it has to do with, like, whether I'm overstimulated or not hot. It's not like I'm bored, dude.

[Jamie Lang]

When there's lots of people in a room and all that, does that make you feel too overstimulated? Sometimes, yeah.

[Adam Grant]

I can. I can't do it for, like, long periods of time. Like, going to a festival is pride of hell. So I don't, you know, if we're in a really busy, loud restaurant, I. I'll be all right for a bit, but then I think it'll just, like, start taking over and I won't be having the best time.

[Jamie Lang]

So I don't. So many things you're saying is what might happens with my wife. Yeah. 100. Which of her to learn. Like, Sophie's like you. She's, like, extroverted, but also can be introverted. She likes her own time. And she get. And what I didn't read, she gets overstimulated by stuff. So if she's overstimulated, that's when she gets really frustrated. And I didn't realize that before. So then her frustration would she just very outward frustration. So she would say things. And so now I've realized actually the frustration isn't at me. It's about the scenario. But I'm the outlet, I'm the one who's getting. And so I had to learn all of those things.

[Adam Grant]

Things, yeah, no, for sure. If I'm really it. I just think your patience just disappears when you're over stimulated and you can't. Especially if you can't remove yourself from that situation. Even the other day I was in the garden, I was trying to read my book. I love reading at the moment. And it was 1 million degrees and then my neighbors were just playing music so loud. And then my dad called me and I was like, oh, can you just call me back? And you just snap. It's just too much on your plate at that time. But it, you know, it's not necessarily loud cars and shouting. It's just. Just random things.

[Jamie Lang]

But you have the self awareness to know that you're doing it as well when you snap.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, well, I'll apologize an hour later. Like I don't know, in that moment I just see red. And then now later I'm like, fuck. Sorry. Like whatever.

[Jamie Lang]

If someone's listening to this right now. Right. Who is a fan of yours, is in a relationship. If they're going through a tough relationship.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

What would your advice be to them?

[Adam Grant]

What do you mean by tough?

[Jamie Lang]

As in something that you went through where you feel like they know they're in a relationship that's probably not right for them.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

That they are being walked all over. Maybe they've been cheating, cheated on. What would you say?

[Adam Grant]

I just think as I'm a lot older, you know, done bad things, had bad things done to me. You just have to. It's almost like what's worth your time. Would you rather spend longer being absolutely miserable or would you rather change it and just make the best of what you've got? Like if something happened in my. I was so hesitant about getting into relationship I'm in now because I was so scared about everything had happened. I was kind of on a bit of a whirlwind, whatever. And. But now I just think it. This is what makes me happy today and this week. So this is what I'm doing and I will. I'm not hurting anyone. I'm just gonna be happy. And this is what I'm choosing. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Who knows? But just choose yourself. Always put yourself first, which is maybe bad advice. I don't know.

[Jamie Lang]

You have your new show, I do love in the Wild.

[Adam Grant]

Yes.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay, tell us about it.

[Adam Grant]

Okay, so it's with Untold working with the same production team who I did my first one with. So it's amazing. All women, proud to the people. And we looked at. Basically there's a huge shift with J Gen Z who are not as keen on using online dating like dating apps anymore. So it's a big shift to doing it in real life. So, like speed dating based on hobbies, ditching the dating apps. And I just thought it was amazing. I loved that people are doing that now. Like dating apps are a lot. They're not going anywhere. They're, you know, a staple in society. They're not gonna be eradicated, but.

[Jamie Lang]

But they feel like a hookup mechanism rather than like an actual sort of long term relationship thing. It's. For me, I, I never use a dating app. I've never used one ever.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, ever?

[Jamie Lang]

Never, Never.

[Adam Grant]

Wow. Well done.

[Jamie Lang]

I've never ever used one. And I don't, I think, I mean, I probably would now if I like, I would use it, but I never used it because I used to do the old. I used to go up to people in restaurants and ask the number, see, you're confident.

[Adam Grant]

Then.

[Jamie Lang]

Well, I just thought there's something to lose. I basically, when I was younger, I was sitting on this. I always had this mind. I sat on the rocks with this girl and I never kissed her. And then years later when we're like 16, she said, why don't you kiss me? And I went, what? What? And she had a boyfriend. I was like, what?

[Adam Grant]

I, I can't now.

[Jamie Lang]

I can't now. Like, what? And so from that moment on, I thought, well, if I ever fancy someone or think someone's beautiful, whatever it is, I'd always ask them. And also, it's always a compliment when someone walks up to you, say you're a beautiful person. It's a compliment, right?

[Adam Grant]

It depends who it is. And in the circumstances, let's not encourage everyone to just approach people, you know.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. You're very.

[Adam Grant]

I love the old fashioned way. I mean, I went on like a couple dating apps. I didn't go anywhere. And when I was single after Love Island, I tried to get on RA. I had 37 referrals and they wouldn't let me on there.

[Jamie Lang]

Can't be true.

[Adam Grant]

I don't have the app, obviously, but I had 37 referrals. Anyone I would meet, I'd be like, get me on that. And I got on, so didn't really do it. But I do prefer meeting someone, you know, in person. And that's how I met my Boyfriend now. Like, we met in person. So where did you meet? We actually met. He's actually Liam. Liam and Millie's. He's his, like, really, really good friend. So we met a few years ago. I've kind of always known him, but we were both in Australia at the same time at Christmas. We just fell in love there. No, we were the only single ones.

[Jamie Lang]

So there you go. Yeah, so it's convenient.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, it worked out for me.

[Jamie Lang]

So this. So the new show. So you basically go and experience what it's like to go on, like, dates and different stuff, scenarios. Like, what can you do? Speed dating? Yeah, I heard there's, like a tantric dating. What is tantric dating?

[Adam Grant]

It was very intense, so I didn't really know too much about tantra and whatever. I kind of just went in a bit blindfolded. Didn't do a lot of googling. Yeah, perhaps I should have. Tantra is all about touch and, like, experiencing things together and almost like a meeting of the mind. So we did, like, one circle of boys, one circle of guys, and every, like, few minutes, you do an activity with the person in the circle. So one was, like, just staring at each other for two minutes.

[Jamie Lang]

Get out of here.

[Adam Grant]

And then one was, you know, holding hands and hugging. And then one was. Oh, it was so embarrassing. It was like dancing to Kesha. For two minutes I was sober. I was so bad. It was like, yeah. Yelling, timbal, what the fuck are we doing?

[Jamie Lang]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Grant]

It was just very out of my comfort at time, that is. But the people in there were loving it. Like, they were all exchanging numbers at the end. Like, it obviously works for some people, which is great. More people should do it. If you like touching, I reckon you'd.

[Jamie Lang]

Be quite good on a first date.

[Adam Grant]

No, come on. Bad.

[Jamie Lang]

Really?

[Adam Grant]

I have no game.

[Jamie Lang]

Get out of here.

[Adam Grant]

What do you mean?

[Jamie Lang]

I think you would have game.

[Adam Grant]

No, it's more like an interrogation for me.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay, so role play. So. So we go on a date together. Okay. So I come and sit down.

[Adam Grant]

Hey, you.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, you know, we. We know each other. We know each other. Yeah, we've been set up.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, great.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. So I'm. And I've arrived late.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, only.

[Jamie Lang]

Only a little bit late. Okay. But I'm bribed in them, so I'm going. Sorry I'm late. Hey, how are you?

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, really good. How are you?

[Jamie Lang]

Good. So would you.

[Adam Grant]

Why are you late?

[Jamie Lang]

I already feel hostility. I'm pretty. Like, I'm already on the back foot.

[Adam Grant]

And I'm probably four drinks in at this point, anyways, to good luck, Charlie.

[Jamie Lang]

You don't have. You must have game. You must.

[Adam Grant]

No, my boyfriend notoriously says to me, I'm incapable of flirting. I will say, like, you look nice. And it. I mean that you look nice, you know, I'm not saying, oh, you look really sexy in them jeans. Like, I won't do that.

[Jamie Lang]

But it's amazing that these documentaries that you're making, this is amazing. Surely then this is where. The place where you want to spread out and do more. More. Right.

[Adam Grant]

I would love to. I think with the two that I've done so far, it's been like, quite immersive. So the first one I loved because we kind of pulled a little prank on the press and pretended I had boyfriend set up. That was so fun. And then this one, it was me actually, like, getting my teeth stuck into dating and relaxed. You know, I went rock climbing day and I was actually climbing rocks. I mean, who would have thought? I love the way you can get your teeth. Really? Yeah. It was a good day. No one wanted to, like, be on camera for that one, which is fine. But I want to do. Do more things. But I think I'd like to move away from, like, the dating. Right. Like me dating. I mean, obviously I can't date now I have a boyfriend, but I'd like.

[Jamie Lang]

To feel like you've done that, You've done that, you've done that area. You want to be something else.

[Adam Grant]

You know, Love island slurs. Go dating. It's a lot of what I've done is dating and stuff. I'm getting a bit old for it.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you think. Do you think because of. Because of Love island and because of those things you get sometimes put into a box?

[Adam Grant]

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so much stigma around it. I'm actually quite proud of it. But I do. It's very hard to break away from Love Island. You know, there's only a few that have really done it. I'd say, like, Kem, Molly May, Liv Atwood, like, they've really, you know, them for everything else they've kind of done now. It's hard.

[Jamie Lang]

It is hard, but. But also that, you know, that takes. It takes time to do that. But also I'm so glad that you're proud of it as well. Like, same with me. I'm so proud of the roots that I've done and if you. And why, like, forget what we've done. Like, Love island is a good, amazing show.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And like, people don't realize, like, you're there for eight weeks being filmed every single day. You need the energy and the charisma and everything. That is a hard gig.

[Adam Grant]

It's hard.

[Jamie Lang]

And people just think because you're just acting yourself, it's kind of easy, but it's not.

[Adam Grant]

No. It was like boot camp for TV that, you know, any show after, there's probably a lot. Although. Slow day. Did you do slept, go dated?

[Jamie Lang]

No.

[Adam Grant]

That is graft.

[Jamie Lang]

Is it really?

[Adam Grant]

That was a lot. I thought it was more intense than love. I learned it was up, so it's all like, west Can. And I lived in Essex, and it was like, the morning, we've got this, then you got the dating agent, and then you got this. And I was like, I'm so tired. I can't anymore.

[Jamie Lang]

I don't want to date anyone. Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

I'm so done. Yeah. No, that was gonna.

[Jamie Lang]

Chloe, man, you. You're so great.

[Adam Grant]

Thank you.

[Jamie Lang]

I've enjoyed, like, every moment of this. I love how open you are. Like, and I think especially people in this industry, that honesty and that openness and that authenticness is so key. And we live in this world of, like, filters all the time, that we have to pretend what. Yeah, we are. And, like. And that's just not. And being real and true is really important, so I really appreciate it.

[Adam Grant]

Well, very easy to chat to you. Did my thing where it's like, I'll tell you if you tell me. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Adam Grant]

Sure enough.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. We just did it together. Together. We like to end the conversation with eight questions. You ready for this?

[Adam Grant]

Oh, my God. Okay, go.

[Jamie Lang]

What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

[Adam Grant]

Saying or phrase. It, like, dinner time or something like that. Ready? Not very one for, like, quotes or stuff like that.

[Jamie Lang]

Best compliment anyone's ever given you.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, someone on Snapchat said to me that I'm like a rom com in real life, and I thought, that's really good. I feel like I am.

[Jamie Lang]

That is nice. What scares you most about yourself?

[Adam Grant]

Drunk Chloe. Don't know that woman. She should be locked up.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you have an alter ego name for it?

[Adam Grant]

Claire. It's Claire. She loves arguing, biting, sleeping, and swearing. She's horrific.

[Jamie Lang]

Has Claire ever done anything really bad?

[Adam Grant]

What do you mean? She's not good. She's awful. I'm just. Once I have one drink, I have 10. Like, I'm not. I'm all or nothing, but there's always a drink around, so it's always Claire.

[Jamie Lang]

What's Claire's favorite drink?

[Adam Grant]

Oh, spicy Margarita, let's go. They're good.

[Jamie Lang]

Let's go. When was the last time you cried?

[Adam Grant]

I cry all the time. I love crying. When's the last time I cried? Oh, last week, but it was at, like, tick tocks, you know, when army soldiers come home.

[Jamie Lang]

That's mine.

[Adam Grant]

Really?

[Jamie Lang]

I swear to God, they just kill me. It's unbelievable.

[Adam Grant]

Every time.

[Jamie Lang]

And they hide behind them. Like, that's something I watch all the time.

[Adam Grant]

Or like the kids in school and they run and they're like, dad, oh, my God. I don't know anyone who's been to war, but I relate to it. Like, wow, I would love that if that was me and someone came back from war.

[Jamie Lang]

I now onto the pets. Have you seen the pets when they come home and their dogs recognize.

[Adam Grant]

I've not seen them for ages. Or they walk past them and they.

[Jamie Lang]

Walk and they suddenly start to realize and they don't really know what's going on. Good stuff, man, that gets me. What's something you can't let go of?

[Adam Grant]

I don't know. I think I kind of just let go of a lot of things. Oh, drunk Chloe. She won't go away.

[Jamie Lang]

She s. Yeah. What's your guilty pleasure?

[Adam Grant]

Well, I. I just love anything with Marmite. I got my Marmite. I'll eat it with a spoon. I did it this morning because I like a bagel with Marmite, so I do that. But then what else is my go?

[Jamie Lang]

You eat it with a spoon?

[Adam Grant]

Ah, hell yeah. It's delicious.

[Jamie Lang]

Butter underneath or just straight up on a.

[Adam Grant]

Depends on the day.

[Jamie Lang]

No way.

[Adam Grant]

Today I was making a bagel and then I just like, spooned it in my mouth and then had it with bagel.

[Jamie Lang]

It's quite like. Yeah, it's entirely like I describe it. It's like quite party or like. Oh, my God. That's in your teeth, is it?

[Adam Grant]

Right. Wake up, caller.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, let's freaking go. Okay. What turns you off?

[Adam Grant]

Bad manners. No sense of drive. Turtlenecks. Skinny jeans. Black trainers with socks up. Repulsive, Dirty train up. Loads, loads. Dirty trainers are repulsive. Turtleneck violently against them. And when they pair it with, like, you know, the check trouser. What the fuck? I hate that. Do you know what I mean? Oh, my God.

[Jamie Lang]

I have a picture of me wearing jet trousers. I always want to get it up. I always want to get it. I saw it the other day and I was like, what is that I'm wearing?

[Adam Grant]

That's an intense outfit.

[Jamie Lang]

It was like an mic scene, Jemima. Like tartan trousers. Polyneck.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, my God.

[Jamie Lang]

I could find a picture of it. That is so freaking funny. We'll find it somewhere. Somewhere. What turns you on?

[Adam Grant]

I like it to start, you know. Don't just rub your boner on me. I love a good snog. Like a good tongue snog. That's good for me.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm a good tongue. Snog is so underrated.

[Adam Grant]

The art of snogging is lost.

[Jamie Lang]

Thank you.

[Adam Grant]

You know, people have got hard tongues out here. Like, go away. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

What do you like most about yourself? Yourself?

[Adam Grant]

Well, I think my sense of humor, it's quite good.

[Jamie Lang]

Come on, Chloe, you're the best. I can't wait to watch your documentary and just see. Go for strength. And strength. You've also got your podcast, which is so funny.

[Adam Grant]

Yes. The podcast is called Chloe versus the World.

[Jamie Lang]

Everyone should go and check it out. And everything you're doing. You're amazing. Really appreciate this. Thank you so much. You're the best.

[Adam Grant]

Thank you for having me. That was so good.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow. I told you, be good. Oh, yeah, that was fun. Have you ever dated a married man?

[Adam Grant]

No. Have you?

[Jamie Lang]

No, but I would consider it. No.

[Adam Grant]

You are a married man.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm a married man, but I'm not dating myself. Yeah, she is.

[Chloe Burrows]

I'm a married man and I'm not dating myself.

[Jamie Lang]

Dating myself.

[Chloe Burrows]

Good. Good to hear it.

[Jamie Lang]

She was great. Fabulous, amazing.

[Chloe Burrows]

And afterwards, we did a little tick tock tick a tock tick a talk.

[Jamie Lang]

So you can go and check that out.

[Chloe Burrows]

And the tick tock was doing maths.

[Jamie Lang]

She's a genius at maths.

[Chloe Burrows]

Jamie lost his mind. She is so good at math.

[Jamie Lang]

But I couldn't believe how good she was. It was. I mean, that is a real talent.

[Chloe Burrows]

And then afterwards she was like, what can I do with that? You know, you're like, honestly, so many things.

[Jamie Lang]

So many things. Like, like, what can I do with this?

[Chloe Burrows]

Being really good at mental maths.

[Jamie Lang]

She's like a human calculator.

[Chloe Burrows]

She could work in a shop.

[Jamie Lang]

Shop. She could. Yeah.

[Chloe Burrows]

She could be a builder.

[Jamie Lang]

Be a builder. She could be accountant. She could be a maths teacher. I mean, there are so many opportunities out there for.

[Chloe Burrows]

Why is she not doing those things?

[Jamie Lang]

I know, but go and check it out on our social media and also, as Jemima said, go and check us out on YouTube where you can see the whole video as well.

[Chloe Burrows]

Yeah, that's what I said in last week's episode, actually.

[Jamie Lang]

You did. Okay, guys, thank you so much for listening, for watching, and we will see you next week. For another episode of Great Company. Hey there. You hear that, right? You don't? That's what it's like to order food for your workplace with EasyCater. No hold music while you wait to place your order. No tap tapping as you type in special dietary instructions or long, complicated searches for options in your budget. No crinkling of paper receipts.

[Chloe Burrows]

Just dang, these are some tasty sandwiches.

[Jamie Lang]

EasyCater the better way to Order Food for work order [e-mail] hello, I'm Elizabeth.

[Adam Grant]

Day, the creator and host of how to Fail.

[Chloe Burrows]

It's the podcast that celebrates the things.

[Adam Grant]

In life that haven't gone right and.

[Chloe Burrows]

And what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better.

[Adam Grant]

Each week, my guests share three failures.

[Chloe Burrows]

Sparking intimate, thought provoking and funny conversations.

[Adam Grant]

You'll hear from a diverse range of voices sharing what they've learned through their failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week.

[Chloe Burrows]

This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony.

[Adam Grant]

Music Entertainment original Podcast. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.