CHRIS APPLETON: Bullies Spat on Me at School. Now I’m Kim Kardashian’s Most Trusted Hair Stylist

Summary

Summary: "CHRIS APPLETON: Bullies Spat on Me at School. Now I’m Kim Kardashian’s Most Trusted Hair Stylist"

Podcast: Great Company with Jamie Laing
Host: Jamie Laing (Jampot Productions)
Guest: Chris Appleton (celebrity hairstylist)
Release Date: May 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged and inspiring episode, Jamie Laing sits down with Chris Appleton, world-renowned celebrity hairstylist to the likes of Kim Kardashian, JLo, and Christina Aguilera. Chris opens up about his journey from a bullied boy in Leicester to a stylist atop Hollywood’s A-list, sharing vulnerable reflections on identity, resilience, reinvention, and self-acceptance. Together, Jamie and Chris explore how childhood traumas can shape our futures, the power of authenticity, and what it means to rise above shame and find joy. The conversation candidly discusses trauma—including suicide—and the healing that comes from facing one’s truth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chris Appleton’s Early Years and Bullying (05:35, 16:25)

• Chris reflects on growing up in Leicester, his early passion for hair, and the bullying he endured as a child:
  • “I used to do my mum’s hair around the age of nine because we were really poor...I kind of wanted to make her feel better about herself.” (16:25)
  • “I was told I was stupid a lot...I was, like, spat on and beaten up. And it was just because…I did hair.” (17:41)

2. Identity, Shame, and Coming Out (19:38, 20:14)

• Chris reveals his struggle with identity and the pressures to suppress his true self until age 27. He recounts the emotional fallout of coming out, his first relationship breakdown, and the devastating mental health challenges he faced.
  • “I think I didn't want to kill myself. I wanted to kill it, whatever that thing was. Well, being gay.” (25:40)
  • “When I came out as gay, everyone said, well, you must have always known. I didn't,” emphasizing the non-linear, deeply personal nature of identity exploration. (18:33)
  • “She [Kate, his ex-partner] saw me and still does...she saved me in many ways. She's the one that found me when I tried to kill myself.” (21:50)
  • On acceptance: “I guess that was one of the moments of looking in the mirror. And I just was like, what about if this is just who I am?” (25:47)

3. The Transformative Power of Hairdressing (15:38, 13:28)

• Chris discusses hair as a vehicle for self-expression by both client and artist:
  • “The possibilities are endless in what you can create. And I've done that with celebrities…but also women that came in the salon every week. It was really powerful.” (13:28)
  • “Hair is like an identity. But you carry it from a child...you're told as a kid who you are...then you get to an age where…I realized you could change.” (14:06)

4. Imposter Syndrome, Success, and ‘Your Roots Don’t Define You’ (11:18, 12:35)

• Chris opens up about his dyslexia and sense of being the underdog, and the disbelief at writing a New York Times bestselling book:
  • “If you'd have told me, then, I'd be a New York Times bestseller...I guess I felt like the underdog.” (11:18)
  • “You getting the New York Times bestseller is actually the true definition of your roots don't define you.” —Jamie (12:11)
  • “Even though I've done the work…and have that title you still kind of go back to that young kid. The difference is now I can kind of snap out of it...” (12:35)

5. Pivotal Career Moments: Celebrity Stories and Self-Belief (08:24, 15:42, 33:39)

• Chris recounts how his commitment to authenticity in his craft led to career-defining successes and viral moments:
  • On JLo’s Super Bowl: “There's this video of me brushing her hair...I'm like, oh my God, I've ruined it. I ruined the performance...I went home and cried...Next day I woke up and ... Vogue wanted to do this top thing...because everyone seemed to love her hair.” (09:19 to 11:06)
  • Working with Christina Aguilera: “I felt paralyzed...She sees me. She sees this little kid...I came back to adult Chris instead of this child version of myself...” (34:50)
  • On innovation: “When I got the job to do Ariana [Grande], ...what could I do that would make me stand out…a little twist on it.” (37:43)

6. Hollywood, Public Attention, and Handling Criticism (39:14, 44:04, 46:05)

• Chris shares what it's like to move to LA and suddenly be at the center of celebrity and scrutiny:
  • “I'm in America. I was kind of going with it. Fake it till you make it.” (39:14)
  • “Do you know why it's all right? Because I know who I am. My family knows who I am...I'm all right with that.” (44:04)
  • On backlash: “When the Jay Shetty podcast came out…some of the comments...he’s evil...I was, like, back to that time when I came out...” (45:37)
  • “If you put yourself out there, these people are invested in you and they want to know...sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad, but that's okay.” (44:56)

7. Lessons in Resilience and Advice for Others (48:27, 48:38)

• Chris reflects on envy, self-awareness, and the importance of being a "sponge":
  • “I've watched [Kim create Skims]...I've just been like a sponge absorbing it. I think what I...that’s the best advice for someone listening or watching. Now become a sponge.” (48:27)
  • “Jealousy can be really dark and it can get you to a really dark place...you could use it as motivation to get up and do something.” (48:40)

8. Quickfire Questions: Personality & Values (51:07 onwards)

• Chris delights in quickfire questions, revealing personal mottos and quirks:
  • Motto: “Die with memories, not dreams. So I really like to live.” (51:27)
  • On letting go: “I'm really loyal until I'm not. And once I'm done, I'm gone.” (52:49)
  • On what turns him on: “Honesty, Kindness, Passion. I think it's really hot when someone...loves it and you're passionate about it.” (53:31)
  • On body positivity: “That I’m proportionate…what’s your favorite body part?” (53:50)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the essence of his book:
  • “Your roots don’t define you. Because I've been talking about it so much, and honestly, I just think a lot of the time they do and it reminds me that they don't.” —Chris (51:09)
• On imposter syndrome:
  • “Even though I know everything that I know…you still kind of go back to that young kid.” —Chris (12:35)
• On breaking cycles:
  • “Maybe that's not who I am. Maybe I'm not that insecure kid or dumb kid, or maybe I’m not that person that someone’s put me in that box to be. Maybe I can break out of it, but it takes a lot of work…” —Jamie (15:18)
• On bold career decisions:
  • “If I do me and she doesn't like it, that's all right. We're just not a match. But if I don't do me…I will kick myself for the rest of my life.” —Chris (36:41)
• On public scrutiny:
  • “You can't go viral and there not be a conversation...some are good, you're only seeing the bad, which is what you do.” —Chris recalling advice from his publicist (46:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Chris discusses charging for a haircut and what goes into his prices: [05:16 – 06:18]
• The JLo Super Bowl viral moment, career breakthrough: [08:24 – 11:06]
• Book discussion, dyslexia, and message of 'Your Roots Don’t Define You': [11:06 – 12:35]
• Reflections on childhood, identity, and bullying: [16:25 – 18:33]
• Coming out, family life, and mental health struggles: [18:33 – 25:47]
• Acceptance and authenticity, learning to look in the mirror: [25:47 – 28:16]
• Working in Hollywood and with Christina Aguilera: [31:37 – 36:41]
• Building a career through innovation and reinvention: [37:01 – 39:01]
• Managing public attention and backlash: [44:04 – 46:43]
• On envy, mentorship, and staying motivated: [48:27 – 49:38]
• Rapid-fire personal insight questions: [51:07 – 54:33]

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Tone & Style

The episode is candid, heartfelt, and incredibly open, with Chris sharing both pain and humor. Jamie maintains a compassionate, easygoing tone, asking tough questions with a friendly touch. The conversation is peppered with British wit and warmth, making even difficult topics accessible and relatable.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a masterclass in resilience, self-acceptance, and the power of reinvention. Chris Appleton’s story goes far beyond glamorous celebrity hair—it's about facing trauma, transcending shame, and building an authentic life with courage. With practical advice for creatives and anyone feeling like an underdog, Chris and Jamie’s conversation will inspire, comfort, and challenge anyone striving to find their own identity and joy.

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Resources:

• Support links for suicide and mental health (see show notes)
• Link to Chris Appleton's book, "Your Roots Don’t Define You"

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(Ads, intro, and outro have been omitted for clarity and focus on core content.)

Transcript

[Jamie]

Guys, just before we start, I want to let you know this episode contains discussions around suicide, so please take care whilst listening or watching this. Now, if you or someone you know is struggling, support is available. Please see the show notes for more information and links to helpful resources.

[Chris Appleton]

I know so many secrets. I started working with Kim, did JLo. I did Christina Aguilera. Then I think it was like, Ariana Grande.

[Jamie]

Is it true that you charge 100,000 for a haircut? This is unbelievable.

[Chris Appleton]

People relate to your hairstylist being a therapist, right? Women, men, they open up. I was really good at making people see themselves in the mirror, look at where they're at, where they've come from, and where they could possibly get to.

[Jamie]

Is there a celebrity you wouldn't do their hair again?

[Chris Appleton]

Hey, I'm Chris Appleton and I'm in great company. The hairdresser of the year, Chris Appleton.

[Jamie]

So you got asked to do J. Lo's super bowl halftime show.

[Chris Appleton]

People still stop me in the street now. Like, J. Lo, super bowl hair.

[Jamie]

It was that huge for me in my career.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, it went viral.

[Jamie]

Kim officiated your marriage. Any part of you at the time, you're like, what the fuck is going on here?

[Chris Appleton]

I think everything was overwhelming. I'm in America. I was kind of going with it. I got a job in the hair salon at a young age. I was like, 12, 13 at the time. I just got bullied. They said, oh, you're gay. Because, you know, I did hair. But it was before I really even thought about sexuality. You know, I was, like, spat on and beating up. So I very quickly kind of thought, well, I'm not gay and I'm not stupid. And I just got really headstrong on wanting to prove people wrong.

[Jamie]

So you shut down that.

[Chris Appleton]

I think I didn't want to kill myself. I wanted to kill it, whatever that thing was. Well, being gay, I've done the work. I'm not ashamed of anything in my life now. I guess that was one of the moments of looking in the mirror. And I just was like, what about if this is just who I am?

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[Jamie]

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Great Company. Firstly, thank you so much for coming back. I'm really excited for today's episode. It's going to be incredible because we have the amazing celebrity hairstylist Chris Appleton on the show.

[Chris Appleton]

Now.

[Jamie]

The Met Gala has just happened so we thought this was a perfect time to release this episode. Um, Chris has done so many celebrities hairs from JLO to Kim Kardashian to Christina Aguilera and he's insanely famous. He tells me how he went from being a lad in Leicester to styling a listers in Hollywood. He opens up about so much of his struggles of what he went through, the hardship that he went through and where he is now today that finally he can accept himself. This is going to relate to so many people. Okay? You're going to love it, I promise you. So get ready for it. Now before we start, just a couple of things. Firstly, if you haven't subscribed to our show, please click that subscribe button. It takes one second it's completely for free, and it does so many amazing, wonderful things for our show. And you can join the amazing community that already following us already means we can keep making a better show, keep delivering on better guests, and keep improving for you guys every single time. And also, if you haven't listened or watched my show with my wife, newly parents, it's out now, wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, here we go. Enjoy this incredible episode of Great Company with Chris Appleton. Is it true that. Is it true that you charge 100,000 for a haircut?

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, God. I should never said it. I got dragged for that. I was awkward answering the question because they were like. And they kept pushing. I was set it. Do you want to be. Do you want to know the honest truth? It's success.

[Jamie]

Come on. It was more.

[Chris Appleton]

It was.

[Jamie]

Yes, let's go.

[Chris Appleton]

I said that it was 200,000, but I said 100 because I was afraid of what everyone would say. I don't know. I said it, and then I was, like, scared. Look, there's so much that goes into it. Like, there's plenty of times I do work for free. There's plenty of times I don't get paid that amount of money. And a lot of my world is this and that and this and that. So it's kind of like where something is great, then that has to last for a period of time. The other thing as well, just to sort of set the record straight, let me say, because it made me feel better, is that was like a bigger thing, and it was a lot of traveling, and it was a whole commitment. So when you break it down, it's not as much. Also, 50% tax in America, so that's half. And then your agent takes 20%.

[Jamie]

There we go.

[Chris Appleton]

And then your business manager takes five. So the answer is yes and no.

[Jamie]

Is there a celebrity's hair that you haven't done yet that you'd love to do?

[Chris Appleton]

Pamela Anderson.

[Jamie]

Ah.

[Chris Appleton]

I met her the other day. I never get starstruck, and I did get her starstruck.

[Jamie]

I actually interviewed her in bed once. Oh, I know.

[Chris Appleton]

Did you want to sleep with her? Be honest. Be honest. Yes. You did?

[Jamie]

Yeah, I probably did, but I was also this. Yeah. Which was Pamela Anderson. And then she gave me her number.

[Chris Appleton]

Did you sleep with her?

[Jamie]

I did not sleep with. But then she gave me her number. I'm gay, and I'd sleep, and she gave me a number. And then I phoned it, and it was a fake number. Very upsetting.

[Chris Appleton]

I gotta go. That's awesome.

[Jamie]

You.

[Chris Appleton]

Well, also. Why'd you call her? That's weird. You don't.

[Jamie]

Well, I did it. I thought it was a flex in front of. It was. It was on a show. And I thought, well, I have Pamela Anderson's number. And they said, this number is unrecognizable.

[Chris Appleton]

That is why she gave me a fake number.

[Jamie]

And then I was thinking, why would Pamela Anderson give me her number?

[Chris Appleton]

She wouldn't.

[Jamie]

She wouldn't.

[Chris Appleton]

She didn't.

[Jamie]

She didn't. What is the. Is there a celebrity. You wouldn't do that? Harrigan.

[Chris Appleton]

That's a bit. Not really. There's people I've said no to just because I don't think we'll be a match, but that's it.

[Jamie]

So how did you start working with JLo? I heard that you. I heard that you got an email out of the blue. Is that right?

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, yeah. So I was actually in. Like, I was in London at the time, and I just took on my phone. I was with Rita, or I just started working with Rita, and I kind of been posting my work on Instagram. And I. The Instagram had just started. And I remember I got this email. I was like. I was like, are you available to work with JLO for a Vegas tour? And I was like, cool. So I just deleted it. You know, like, stupid. And then a couple of weeks later, I got another email, and I was like, oh, maybe it's not spam. Maybe it is JLo. Maybe it is JLo's team. So I thought, well, how does JLO know who I am? And just Chris, you know, from Lester, I don't know if she knows who I am, but I thought, well, maybe I could go to America. Maybe I could do it. And that's, you know, one of the things that also prompted it.

[Jamie]

But what was that? The halftime? What happened at the halftime? So you got asked to JLo's halftime this super half time.

[Chris Appleton]

So basically, it was long story short. Probably a lot of people say to me, was there a defining moment in your career? Everything has just been a build, a build, a build, little builds all along. Because then all of a sudden, people know who you are and they see you and you get a title. Oh, you're the best hairstylist. You're all the best. This or whatever. But it's just been build, build, build, build. There was a defining moment in my career, which was quite a big jump layer, which was Super Bowl. I think, just because so many people watched the super bowl and there was so much conversation around it. So I did JLo's hair, and people seem to love it. But at the time she started a performance, and there was this video that went viral of me brushing her hair because they'd done her hair in the morning, and it was like, the big, bouncy hair. But any girls watching this know, like, everyone. Every girl loves a big, sexy blowout. It's great. They kind of bounce around. It's really nice. It doesn't last, though. It's one of those things you do, and it's just, like, kind of sinks.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

She basically performs at the Super Bowl. She's doing rehearsal and all that. And there's this video of me brushing her hair. And it looks like I'm doing it quite aggressively because I was. Because I'd not had a chance to brush her hair all day. And she'd done rehearsals, she'd done everything, and I was trying to bring it back to life. And also, she had all these beads on, and hair just gets stuck in beads. I'm, like, ripping it out, the beads, and I'm like, fuck, this is. Everyone's gonna see this. Gonna make sure it's good. So then off she goes on stage. She starts on this, like, Empire State build, and her hair's all, like, bouncy, and then she comes down. And then as soon as she gets into her first dance move, she, like, swings her head around, and this piece of hair just got, like, stuck in her eyelash. And then they're kind of, like, picking up. She's doing this dance move where she's on people's shoulders because she's like. She's trying to get. I don't know what's in her head. She's. This piece of hair is in my eye, like, and it's stuck in her eyelash. This piece of hair won't off. It was there the whole. It would not go. And I'm looking. I'm looking on these big, huge screens. I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I've ruined it. I ruined the performance. Like, she can't focus. Like, it's. Everyone went out that night and celebrated. It's the Super Bowl. It's the biggest night. And I went home and cried. I literally stayed in bed. I thought I'd absolutely ruined her performance. It was like my career was over. I was like, God, I can't even control the hair on the biggest. I can't even get it right then. I can't get it perfect. And I remember the next day, I woke up and I looked at my Phone. And I've never seen such a jump in followers on social media or the amount of messages I had. And Vogue wanted to do this top thing, and all these people reaching out because everyone seemed to love her hair. Everyone seemed to love the way her hair moved and bounced. And people still stop me in the street now, like, JLo, Super bowl, hair, get out of here. It was that huge for me in my career. Yeah. It went viral, and then the video went viral. Me brushing hair. It was just a really big moment.

[Jamie]

Your book is a New York Times bestseller.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

So how are you feeling about that?

[Chris Appleton]

Great. So honored I didn't anticipate it. I guess it means people liked it, which is what means the most.

[Jamie]

But why didn't you anticipate it?

[Chris Appleton]

I mean, I was never very academic at school. I was dyslexic, and that's why I kind of fell into hair. So if you'd have told me, then I'd be a New York Times bestseller. I just. I don't know. I just think it was achievable because it was kind of for clever people or people that, you know, went to university. I didn't do any of those things, so I guess I felt like the underdog. But the fact that, you know, it became a bestseller is. I don't know. Yeah, I'm really proud of it. I'm still kind of taking it in. Honestly.

[Jamie]

Dude, you're a New York Times bestseller.

[Chris Appleton]

I know. All right.

[Jamie]

That's freaking good.

[Chris Appleton]

Keep bringing it up. Every now and again. I do wake up in the morning sometimes. I'm a New York Times bestseller. It's a nice feeling, you know, the title.

[Jamie]

Your Roots Don't Find You. Right.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Which, by the way, very clever title.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. You see what we did?

[Jamie]

It's a double.

[Chris Appleton]

Yes.

[Jamie]

Because Roots is.

[Chris Appleton]

Yes.

[Jamie]

The hair.

[Chris Appleton]

Absolutely.

[Jamie]

But then Roots is also.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. And quite often, we are defined by roots.

[Jamie]

There we go.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

But it's true, right, that the reason why you probably felt that imposter syndrome, Right. When you were writing it all, when it came out, is because that goes back to our roots, is that you're saying, I was this dyslexic kid. I wasn't academic, so then I can never achieve something like this 100%. And then. So you getting the New York Times bestseller is actually the true definition of your roots don't define you. Which is kind of amazing, I think.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, absolutely. And even though I know everything that I know and I've done the work and, you know, I have that title you still kind of go back to that young kid. The difference is now I can kind of snap out of it and come back to myself and be adult me and be like, I'm proud of that. I did good. You know? Whereas for a long time, I think my imposter syndrome was so insane that it kind of really helped me do.

[Jamie]

You know, it's. It's mad, right? Remember at school when I was just not good at, like, maths and things like that?

[Chris Appleton]

Terrible.

[Jamie]

And I got told by the teachers I had to have extra teaching.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And it was, like, the biggest amount of shame, really, for some reason back then. I don't know why. And I didn't tell any of my friends. I didn't want anyone to know about it. And what is crazy for me is that our childhood, even though it's kind of a short period, it does kind of like, it stays with us.

[Chris Appleton]

Whole lives.

[Jamie]

Whole lives, Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

I mean, even that short period, that's why I wrote the book. I mean, the people relate to your hairstylist being a therapist, right? Yeah. So that, you know, women, men, they open up. I know so many secrets. But, like, when they sit in a chair, the reason being is because it's the one time you sit and you really look in the mirror. And a lot of people look in the mirror every day, I don't know, like 10 or 12 times a day. But not many people stop and really look and see themselves. They just see that reflection that they know. Whereas when you sit in a stylish chair, I think it's the time you really look in the mirror. And most women kind of do this and they're, like, pulling their face back or like, is this lighting bad? Because I kind of like wrinkles and they kind of start tearing themselves apart part. But it's the one time I notice where they're vulnerable enough to sort of open up. And the possibilities are endless in what you can create. And I've done that with celebrities, now that people know, but also just, you know, women that came in the salon every week, like cancer patients that lost their hair models on a Runway. And I noticed that when you really see someone and you really get into sort of where they come from, why they look, the way they look, and the possibility of, like, changing that, it was really powerful. And people really kind of related to that. All people. Not just, like, rich or famous or, you know, because hair is like an identity totally. But you carry it from a child. Because a lot of the time you told as a kid who you are you're like, you're the quiet one, or, you know, your brother's the clever one. You're the one that's artistic or, you know, or even as a job, like, I want you to be a doctor when you're older. Like, people go into relationships, jobs, make financial decisions, all based on what they were told to do or what society told them to do. And then you get to an age where. And I mean, I got to an age where I realized you could change. But not everyone does know they have the power to change that. And that's kind of what the book is about, is for anyone that's ever asked, is this it? Like, you know, looked in the mirror? Is this who I am? Is this. Was this my decision? Like, am I happy?

[Jamie]

That's a big moment, right? And I'm so. Dude, I'm so with you. Right? Because I think it takes a. It takes us a really brave moment to go, actually, maybe that's not who I am. Maybe I'm not that, like, insecure kid or dumb kid, or maybe I'm not that person that someone's put me in that box to be. Maybe I can break out of it, but it takes a lot of work in order to have the strength to break out of it.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. 100. It's kind of. Honestly, doing the work is kind of brutal because.

[Jamie]

Terrible.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. I realized I was really good at it. I was really good at making people see themselves in the mirror, look at where they're at, where they've come from and where they could possibly get to. Okay.

[Jamie]

Holy smokes.

[Chris Appleton]

I made a job out of it. It was great. I made a whole career out of it. Do you know what I never did? I never looked at myself. I was very good at making other people do it. I was too afraid to see myself. And that's when I came out at 27. That's when I had to see myself. And then that was incredibly hard. But I realized I made a whole career out of making people look and feel good and see themselves. I just didn't do it to myself. And I think a lot of people can sometimes be in those situations. It's easier to help others than to actually help yourself.

[Jamie]

Well, why were you too afraid to look at yourself?

[Chris Appleton]

I think what. As a kid, grew up in Leicester, found that I was good at hair at a young age. I used to do my mum's hair around the age of nine because we were really poor. And I kind of somehow wanted to sort of make her feel better about herself. She had A really. Her parents died at a very young age and in a brutal way. And I think, like, I recognized that trauma, and I could see the sadness. So I used to see these Hollywood stars, and I'd be like, I want to try and make my mom look glamorous. So I'd do her hair, and she'd stand up and look in the mirror, and I saw her react. So her shoulders would go back, she'd stand a bit taller. And I was like, wow, you get to make people feel something. And I loved that. So I was like, okay, I'm going to do this. So I got a job in the hair salon at a young age. I was like, 12, 13 at the time. And because I had a job in the hair salon, kids at school just automatically. The guys were. You just. I just got bullied. They said, oh, you're gay. Because, you know, I did hair. But it was before I really even thought about sexuality. You, like, 12. I wasn't. I was just having a good time. I don't know. I was just happy to find something I was good at because I was told I was stupid a lot of school because I was dyslexic, and dyslexia then wasn't really recognized. It wasn't really acknowledged. So it wasn't as though these things were said in a nice way. It was a very brutal way. I mean, I was, like, spat on and beating up. And it was just because, I mean, I wasn't.

[Jamie]

I didn't like the playground at school.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. And jumped. When I left school on the bus, it was just like, relentless.

[Progressive Insurance Ad Voice]

I didn't.

[Chris Appleton]

I didn't understand. I remember once I was walking home from school, I was up in my girlfriends, and we're having fun, and these guys jumped me from the back and were punching me in the head and pushed me to the gates. It was several of them. I just didn't know what I'd done. I was so confused. I was like, I haven't done any. I don't even know who they are. But it was because I did head. And they said, then you're gay. And like, I say so. I very quickly kind of thought, well, I'm not gonna. I'm not gay and I'm not stupid. And I just got really headstrong on wanting to prove people wrong. So you shut down that really badly. And I didn't. I would. I mean, if you've asked me through my teens and my early 20s, I would never have said I would. I didn't know. I wasn't aware that I was doing that, but I was on such a mission to prove everyone wrong and to do what society told me to do, which was be normal, be not. You know, I just didn't want to be different.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

When I came out as gay, everyone said, well, you must have always known. I didn't. I wasn't watching gay porn. I wasn't thinking about guys. When I was having sex with girls, I wasn't, like, secretly meeting. I felt like I. My life was Great. I had two kids. I had kids when I was 19. Like, I felt really happy. Happy. I felt great. So then when I did come out, because my relationship with my partner, we'd been together nine years, broke down, I kind of was just. I thought I was just, like, kind of having fun. My career was taking off. I was traveling a lot with work, and, you know, I hook up with girls. And then I remember one night, this guy, like, tried to kiss me. And we'd had a lot of drink, and I was always around gay people because of, you know, the industry I work in. It was not foreign to me, and I didn't think much to it. I thought I was just drunk, and I'm like, you know, just being a bit crazy because I'm heartbroken and I'm sad, you know. But then we kind of became friends, and we just had. It was a conversation over the phone. Didn't even live in England, but that was my first introduction into that of, like, feeling safe to talk to someone. It was just conversational. It went over months and months, and then it started to sort of feel like more. But then I very quickly shut that down again.

[Jamie]

Which you started to feel.

[Chris Appleton]

I just kind of felt I knew he was gay and I was. You know, I'd start to speak to him every day. I enjoyed speaking to him. So it went from being friends into feeling some sort of more emotional side to connecting to him. Then I got very afraid of what that was, and I thought, I'm just going through something, you know, I'll be fine. So I was fine for a minute until I wasn't. And then once I kind of opened those doors, I then had to understand what had happened for the last, you know, 15 years of my life. And that took a long time to figure out. That took years of work.

[Jamie]

Were you in love with the. And I. I'm sure you were the mother of your kids.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, I think it was an unconditional love. I think it's the greatest love apart from my kids, which we still have. I'll tell you for why. Because me and Kate got together when I was 19. When we broke up, when I was 27, it was really dark. When I came out as being gay, I tried to kill myself, which was terrible. I speak about this lightly now only because.

[Jamie]

Yeah, you do speak about lightly.

[Chris Appleton]

Well, I just think it's. Cause I've done the work. Those words don't scare me. And for such a long time, it was such a big secret. It was the darkest secret that I thought no one would ever know about because I was so ashamed. I'm not ashamed of anything in my life now. This is all parts of my journey that made me who I am today. And I'm all right with that. In my darkest times, when I couldn't see myself, she saw me. And for a lot of years in my life, I couldn't see myself. And she saw me. And not everyone has that, you know, Even when it was so painful for her and the shame of me being gay and how that made her feel. And I always get upset when I talk about this, but she. She saw me and still does. In actual fact. We spent Christmas together with the kids this year, and it was New Year's Eve and the fight, we had fireworks going off and stuff, and it was really cute. And I put my arm around her and she said. I said, oh, I did it, Kate. I did it because I just brought a house back in the uk, which was again, very kind of full circle for me. She said, oh, I always knew you were Chris. I always believed in you. I always knew you'd do it. And I thought I said I didn't. And she says, I know, but I always knew you'd do it. And she's just always believed in me.

[Jamie]

Always had your back.

[Chris Appleton]

Always believed in me. And, like, you know, although sometimes me and Kate felt so bad for our kids because they didn't have the conventional family, but they do have. I mean, I think we created two beautiful children we're so proud of. And it's maybe not conventional, but it's loyal and it's solid. And kids have always been a focus. Yeah. So I think there is an unconditional love. I mean, look, Soros will argue like cat and dog, but it's just like there was a pact we made with each other when we met. And I think in having kids, this bond that just never left and never will. And, yeah, she saved me in many ways. She's the one that found me when I tried to kill myself. And she was the one that, like, I Say, even when she was in the most pain and shame and probably should have just hated me and never want to talk to me again, she didn't because she could see what I was going through. She could see what happened to me as a kid. She could see why I was in the place I was. And that takes a lot of compassion for someone to be able to do that.

[Jamie]

Yeah. I think what's important here is, like, people listening right now who don't know your story are really going to connect with this. I'm at 100% because. You're kidding me. So many people out there are feeling shame, feeling guilt, feeling whatever is feeling, not themselves.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

So you talking about that is a really important thing.

[Chris Appleton]

I think I was trying to understand something that I didn't and couldn't because you can't. It took years to get it right and understand what had happened to me and why I made the, you know, decision to try and prove people wrong before I'd even let myself develop who I was. So when I did come out, it was very quick and everyone started to talk and there was just conversations all around. And when there's a secret, people want to know. Well, that secret is, you know, when people know, no one really cares, but, you know, when there's a secret. And so told k. Told my parents. And it wasn't like a nice way. I was. I was kind of shouting it. I'm gay. You know, it was like this because I couldn't stand it. You know, I couldn't get rid of it. And I wanted to. You know, every night I used to go sleep with a picture of the kids. And I just pray to God. It was just pray to God that I would wake up and it would be gone. Because I was like, why could I have done? Why? I was okay for so many years and I thought I was all settled and fine. And now it's like this thing I get rid of. And I just. I think I didn't want to kill myself. I wanted to kill it, whatever that thing was. Well, being gay. So the night we told the kids, we had to tell the kids, and it was just horrible. It was. It was awful. They were upset. I was upset. I was in no state to tell them.

[Jamie]

What was the decision to tell them?

[Chris Appleton]

Well, I think everyone was just talking. Everyone in the town was talking and conversations and.

[Jamie]

Cause it's just gossip.

[Chris Appleton]

I just. Yeah, we just never wanted someone else to say it. And I just think we've always had very open relationship and honesty with our kids. So we told the kids I was gay. I couldn't even say it. Her mum ended up kind of just saying, your dad's gay. And they just looked so confused. And I remember my son saying, are you gonna have your arm like this? You know, like, he'd been told gay guys do this, you know, like, in the playground. I was like, no, I'm not gonna change, like. But I just felt like how bullied I was at school and how miserable my life had become because of that. I felt like I'd just given all of that to them and put all that shame, and they were gonna get bullied and just have the shit that I had to kid. And that was miserable. And as a. As a dad or as, you know, like, all you want to do is protect your kid. If someone kicks them in a playground, you wait, you ain't got to find that when the mom's not watching deck them, like, who was it? Like, you know, but when you're the one doing that, I just was like, I can't take that.

[Jamie]

I.

[Chris Appleton]

So I just thought it would be better for me to be dead than to be gay. And I just. Just switched. I don't know. I just needed to. I felt like I just need to get the. Away from them. I just.

[Jamie]

Yeah, but you know. You know, now looking back at that, that is, like, complete and utterly the wrong choice. Not because.

[Chris Appleton]

Well, there was a moment that when I woke up in the hospital several days, and I remember kept hearing people in and out when I eventually woke up, and I remember laying there and I thought to myself, like, okay, I didn't die. And I thought to myself, you know, I couldn't hate myself anymore. Like, I was thinking, what can I do? I was saying I couldn't hate myself anymore. Like, I literally tried to kill myself and I didn't die. And I thought, well, what's the opposite I can do? And I thought, what about if I just stop and surrender? And I think for the first time in my whole life, I think my shoulders went down and it was like a physical thing where I just sat there and I was like, I guess that was one of the moments of looking in the mirror. And I just was like, what about if this is just who I am? And I don't really know what's next, but maybe the first step is just saying, this is me. I'm Chris, and I'm gay, and I don't know what to do next, but I'm gonna start here. And that was the beginning. I think of me living and and being honest and authentic and, you know, it was definitely a journey, but it. Acceptance was just. It's like someone's trying to shut. It's like a mirror was in front of me whole life, and I kept dodging the mirror. Kept dodging the mirror.

[Jamie]

Yeah. You don't.

[Chris Appleton]

Exhausting. I didn't realize how exhausting it was, man.

[Jamie]

Because I, like, honestly, the. Indeed I remember. So I. In my. In my 20s, I, like, I had serious anxiety, right. And I had, like, a panic attack. And that panic attack was like a light switch. It just. Suddenly I just experienced this thing of, like, anxiety, and it wouldn't go. And so I'd suffered it for so long and for, like, ages and. Crippling. Crippling. And I never spoke about it to anyone. It's like my hidden secret. And I remember I was speaking to a therapist finally when I was like, I don't know how old, maybe like 29 or whatever it is.

[Chris Appleton]

Do you like therapy?

[Jamie]

Yeah, I love it. I've sort of stopped it now, but I think it's. If you can afford it and do it and you have access to it, it's the most incredible thing, you. Self awareness. Right. But the therapist said to me, jamie, I wish you could just accept. I wish you could just accept that you have anxiety. And I remember just going, all right, okay. And I remember I was on holiday, and I remember just thinking, all right, I'm just gonna accept that I have anxiety. I'm gonna accept it.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And I remember that moment that I just accepted that perhaps I was an anxious person. That didn't, you know, And I know it's different to what you were going through, but accepting that it was anxiety, it was my makeup, that's what I was dealing with.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

That was my. Relax.

[Chris Appleton]

I was like, wow.

[Jamie]

And that moment.

[Chris Appleton]

It's not a loud moment, though, is. It's really quiet.

[Jamie]

It's quiet. Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

And it's like, oh.

[Jamie]

And you suddenly have this, like, road to freedom where you're just, like, so crazy. Like. Well, for so long, I've been trying to, like, hold my breath.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And not breathe because I think it's going to. I know I can battle my way through this, but actually, the damage that

[Chris Appleton]

happens and also just fighting yourself, you know,

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[Jamie]

At McDonald's, a McDouble is $2.50.

[Chris Appleton]

So you can get your gym gains on or just get lunch for only $2.50.

[Jamie]

Get more value on the under $3 menu. Limited time only.

[Chris Appleton]

Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery.

[Jamie]

What's your relationship like with your kids now?

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, great. My kids are amazing. Kitty's 21, Billy's 23, and they're living their best lives. I'm so proud of them. They're incredible kids. I mean, I think probably one of the best things I did as a dad was they came to America. I think your kids leaving the town you grew up in is really powerful, I think, because it enables them to see there's more than just what's going on, you know, in the 2.4 children. You know, like they're kind of like, you know, you go to work, you come home, you know, you get married at a young age, you have a kid. I want them to experience some life, to see what was out there for them to make the decisions they wanted to make. And I'm incredibly proud of who they are and like I say, very open and honest. I take Kitty with me to all these different events and I mean, it's interesting. When she first moved to America, she couldn't even look the waiter in the eye. I remember we were ordering food at a restaurant and she was just so, like, you know, shy and timid. But now, you know, I see her and she, she handles herself, conversations with people and you know, she's just grown so much to see the growth in them at such a young age. I mean, I moved to America when I was 30 and that was really scary. To do it at the ages of 16 and 18. I'm just really proud of them.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

Because it's a huge jump, especially LA and Hollywood. It's a crazy place to live in. You know, it's fun and it's the land of dreams, but it's also. Can be a very sad and lonely place, you know, and, you know, a lot of people go there to be someone or be some things. There's lots of different things you have to learn about la. You know, certain people want access to things or you, you know, they want to be a part of something, like with celebrities or whatever. So, you know, you have to learn to protect yourself and protect your circle. But they're incredible.

[Jamie]

When you. When you arrive in la, right, and you get off the plane, did you suddenly go, okay, here we go, I'm here. This is it. Did it feel like you had turned this new chapter and started again?

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, it just feels crazy. I'm like, it's Hollywood. It's the land of dreams. Everywhere you look, it's just like, oh, my God, like. Like, go to get some lunch. It's like Brad Pitt's getting lunch.

[Jamie]

Or people, they sell slushies in the 7 11.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, my God, the food is crazy. And the suit. Everything's bigger. Supermarkets are bigger, the roads are bigger, the cars are bigger. Everything's just big, you know? Not everything's big. I don't know. I think the Brits.

[Jamie]

Not everything. Yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

I don't know. In my experience, for anyone wants to know.

[Jamie]

Well, the Brits are bigger.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

So no, I even like working. I did the Voice. I did the Voice here when I worked with Rita Oren. And the first job I got was with Christina Aguilera on the Voice, which is huge, man. Huge. I was like, wow, amazing. Let's go. And then I was like, oh, my God, it felt like Mount fucking Everest. It was like, it's Christina Aguilera. She's the most. She's so famous, you know, like, she's huge. She's worked with everyone. She could work with anyone. She wants every photographer, every house, you know, she's had the best. Why the fuck would she want me? So I turned up to do a on the Voice and there was like three hours for glam, but even the Voice was just bigger. I've been to the Voice in the uk. It's kind of nice. It was great. This was big. And there's like, you know, craft services and all these different things. And I don't know. I was sitting outside a trailer waiting to go in, and there was three hours for glam, which you might think is a long time, but it takes time to get.

[Jamie]

Yeah, yeah, I get that.

[Chris Appleton]

Looking gorgeous.

[Jamie]

Yeah, 100%.

[Chris Appleton]

I mean, I was in glam this morning for two and a half hours.

[Jamie]

Six hours.

[Chris Appleton]

Did it in five minutes, mate.

[Jamie]

Well, and you look. And it looks.

[Chris Appleton]

I don't even have any makeup,

[Jamie]

so I.

[Chris Appleton]

The makeup artist goes in, and I got left outside. So an hour went by, and I'm like, an hour of anxiety is not great. So I feel, like, a little bit like I can't move, but still didn't get invited in. An over hour went by. Anyway, last 20 minutes, they're like, okay, she's ready for you. And I'm like, well, probably someone else has done her hair, and I'm just gonna finish it. Finishing touches. Right? 20 minutes. Finishing touches. What can you do in 20 minutes? Well, you.

[Jamie]

I can with this.

[Chris Appleton]

So 20 minutes. I go in and I'm like, hey. And she's like, what do you want to do? And I'm like, okay, cool. And I had all these hair pieces. Very prepared, had all these pieces done. Like, I thought I could put this wig on the back, like a half piece. It would be a quick way to change it up because I'm not like the beachy wave kind of guy. I'm not like, same as usual. I'm always very much like, who do you want to be? Let's kind of reinvent some things, do something different, you know, I love kind of transformation. So I was like, oh, I think these, like, wigs could look really good, these hair pieces. She's like, I don't like wigs. And I was like, oh, cool, okay.

[Jamie]

And I thought you were like, nor do I.

[Chris Appleton]

No, you know what? No. Nor do I. I'm like, who?

[Jamie]

Obviously, I don't. Did I say wig?

[Chris Appleton]

I don't. What I meant is I want to go home. So I just like, oh, cool. Okay. Course you don't. In my head, I'm like, why would you like any. She sees me. I was like, she sees I'm a piece of shit. So I was like, okay, cool. So I did that thing hairdressers do where they basically just kind of like, they just move your hair.

[Jamie]

Fuss.

[Chris Appleton]

They just fuss. They're just moving it, and they're hoping something's going to happen. So I'm just, like, moving it and thinking I'm just gonna touch on it. And she's probably what the Is he doing? Like, when you're at a wedding and you feel really uneasy and you just,

[Jamie]

like, move your tie, just start moving things.

[Chris Appleton]

And then I felt paralyzed. I felt the fear come in through my chest, come out through, like, my arms. I felt like I couldn't move. And I felt like, she sees me. She sees this little kid. She sees Chris. Just this. She knows I'm from Leicester. She knows I'm, like, stupid and just trying to. Of. Who am I kidding? You know? She conceived me for who I am. Like, you guys are all famous and stars. I'm not. And I came back to myself. I came back to, like, adult Chris instead of this, like, child version of myself. And I was like, you know what? You've never tried one of these pieces. Like, let's just try it. Because they were all prepared and they were good. I know they were good. So I got one and put it on ahead. And she was like, oh. She said, oh. And the stylist looked over. She was like, well, I like it. And she's like, okay. So I put it on her head, and it was like, 10 minutes. I buried her hair underneath, and off she went on the show. And I remember taking pictures of the screen. And then she came off the stage, and she looked over at me, and she was like, everyone likes your wig. And then she, like, carried on talking to the contestants. And in that moment was the defining moment where I realized, like, oh, my God, I did it. And I nearly. Because I nearly didn't do it. I nearly really didn't do it. And if I hadn't have put that wig on, if I hadn't have come back, back to myself, and I hadn't. I've been able to ground myself and have those. The technique to be able to come back to myself, I would have not done a good job on a hair. I don't know what I would have done. There was 10 minutes, and I wouldn't be here now. I wouldn't have written the book. I wouldn't be in America. I would still.

[Jamie]

You really think that defining moment was everything?

[Chris Appleton]

Believing a version of myself that I was told 100%, without a doubt, because you're only as good as your last gig. And that was my gig. That was. That was my chance. That was my chance.

[Jamie]

What's amazing, though, that having that confidence in the moment say, I think this is going to work, having your opinion, that is so important to have sometimes. And we don't do it because we're scared of the reaction we're going to get right and you kind of just push that forward. It's insane.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah. And it wasn't in an arrogant way. Like I was 30 years old. I spent my whole life in my craft and I didn't know what I was doing. And I was like, this is what I thought. If I, if I do me and she doesn't like it, that's all right. We're just not a match. But if I don't do me and if I don't show up to be my best self, I will kick myself for the rest of my life.

[Jamie]

So when did you start working with Kim Kardashian?

[Chris Appleton]

Who? Huh? What? Waiting for you to bring that one up. I started working with Kim about 10 years ago. Did you? Yep. From. So I did JLo. No, I didn't do JLo. Actually. I didn't do her for a minute after I moved to America. I did Christina Aguilera then I think it was like Ariana Grande. But every time I did something like Ariana Grande put the hair hoops, those hoops in her hair, that kind of became a thing. And I made a ponytail longer.

[Jamie]

And so all of that is your little ideas to like.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, like Christina Aguilera did like lavender hair. She had like lavender hair on the. And we put the hoops in. And then someone saw that. Who did that? You know, it's like a knock on effect.

[Jamie]

Totally.

[Chris Appleton]

It was like social media was posting my stuff. People look. And honestly, anyone watching social media, we have a love hate relationship with it. But anyone that doesn't want to succeed, I'm always like, find out what, like sell the sizzle, not the sausage. Like show people what you're good at. Show people what you're thinking is my thing was like reinvention. I love to do different things, even if it was just a little twist on it. Like when I got the job to do Ariana, it was like a test. And I knew she had a ponytail. I don't even know if that is her ponytail. If it's her. I didn't know what it was, but I was like, what could I do that would make me stand out from someone else? Three of us having a test. What could I do that would just put a little twist on it? And I loved, like I say these, these hoops and I kind of was like her ponytail, but with this interesting detail and that kind of. So I think I've always just tried to be like, well, why me? Why am going to stand out in that situation? So, yeah, in Answer to sort of getting acknowledged, I guess, in America was I did those little things that made a difference. And then one day, I got the call from Kim's team, and I walked in. Sh. I've heard you're really good at, like, wigs. And I was like, yeah.

[Jamie]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Appleton]

I think I was changing. Christina was hair on the voice. You see the thing that she didn't like wigs and then got known for. And we did this short. Like, I remember Kanye came out, and I sat down and had a conversation with him. He's like, we're doing this, and we're doing that. And she was going to do blonde, and then we ended up doing this, like, short.

[Jamie]

You were telling Kanye about you being like, hey, we're thinking about this. And he was like, I don't know. Maybe.

[Chris Appleton]

Well, yeah, it was like. He was like, you know, this is kind of where I was, like, that kind of whole Yeezy era. And I'm like, were you not like

[Jamie]

any part of you at the time? You're like, what the going on here?

[Chris Appleton]

Like, this is. I think everything was overwhelming. I'm an American. I was kind of going with it. So, I don't know. Fake it till you make it. Yeah, I kind of. We did this, like, shorter look on Kim was different, and no one knew it was a wig. Ever thought she'd cut her hair off again. That was another moment. And then people saw that. So everything was just like. Everything was just like a leaping board into the next thing. But if I said to you, how are you where you're at now? Like, did you just get a core, you know, overnight sensation?

[Jamie]

No.

[Chris Appleton]

It's like so many little builds. Right. Always knock down and then build and then knock down.

[Jamie]

Kim officiated your marriage.

[Chris Appleton]

I was waiting for you to bring that one up.

[Jamie]

Did you like my tone of voice where I went upbeat?

[Chris Appleton]

It was a little bit awkward. Okay. Yeah.

[Jamie]

But you got married in Vegas.

[Chris Appleton]

I did.

[Jamie]

What to see on the Kardashians.

[Chris Appleton]

Yes.

[Jamie]

But then you. The marriage broke down.

[Chris Appleton]

You got a divorce. Yeah.

[Jamie]

What I noticed about you, Chris, is you're pretty brave at making big decisions. And I don't know about your marriage. I don't know about your relationship.

[Chris Appleton]

Right.

[Jamie]

But you. You know, you make the decision to come out at 26, you make the decision to go to America. You make the decision to put the wig on. You make these big, bold decisions. You. You get married, and then you make the decision amicably or whatever it is to. To have a divorce as well. Even Though it is so public. Yeah, they're big, bold decisions. And sometimes in life, I think that a lot of us get stuck in situations and we're afraid of the outcome, so we just stay in it. That can be a job, that can be a relationship, that can be anything. And you don't do that. You. You feel that something's not good for you or you're not feeling it, and you do make that decision. You almost, like, breathe.

[Chris Appleton]

I mean, I think. I think a lot of people in this situation with that, like, you know, maybe said that it was reckless, but I think sometimes it can be more about hope, you know, than recklessness. And I think sometimes we shame people too much for, I don't know, following their heart. And, you know, people say, well, I know that wouldn't work. And I think I'd rather feel like I lived than, you know, never lived at all. But I think the important thing that I've always done is try to learn by my mistakes and try and look why I make the decisions I make and, you know, not wanting to make the same mistake twice. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Why do you think the marriage didn't work?

[Chris Appleton]

I think probably what I've done my whole life is think that love is enough. And unfortunately, love isn't enough. And I always just thought, oh, we'll figure it out. Out. Love's enough. Love. Love will win. Love is the ultimate thing that will win, which I'd love to believe is true, but unfortunately it's not. And I think alignment is a true. Is really important. I think honesty. I think two people that have, you know, aligned intentions, and I think those are things that I never really looked at, you know, throughout any of my relationships or even. Even friendships. I don't think I've done that. I think I've just kind of thought, oh, it'll be fine, and it not. But I think unfortunately, now that's why. Well, unfortunately or fortunately, that's why I've been single for the last two and a half years. Because now I do know what's important. I know what works for me. Whereas before, I kind of just wanted to make something work. Whereas now I'm like, what works for me. And when you realize, like, what does work for you, the pool of people become much smaller, you know, and that's okay. I'm all right with that.

[Jamie]

Well, yeah, it's. It's a big moment when you realize you don't have to be friends with everyone and then that you can just have this select few. And actually, that's okay.

[Chris Appleton]

In life, yeah, 100%. And I think it's just really important to whatever you get yourself, you know, I don't have any regrets about my past. I have no regrets. I think everything's took me to a place now of where I'm at. Like I said, I don't try and delete it or ignore it. I just think some things for a season and some things are more for a lifetime. And I know the mistakes I've made in my life, and I'm, you know, know aware of who I am as a person, and that's all I can do. I can't be accountable for other people and their actions. You know, I think that's their journey, and I'm all right with that, too, but it's tricky. But when something doesn't work, I think, I hope that I still feel that I am confident enough to say as much as. And it's not without, you know, working hard. I'm not. I'm not a flaky person. I'm very loyal. I'm probably too loyal. But when something just isn't serving you anymore, I do think it's important to say I have to just step away. And, you know, all right, you talk about my marriage and a public experience. It's very interesting when you have the whole world's opinion, you know, when you have people's opinions. I say whole world. That sounds.

[Jamie]

No, but it feels.

[Chris Appleton]

You know, people talk about it, but

[Jamie]

it feels like when you're in that moment, it's like you feel like it is the world, because you feel like every single person is looking at you, they're messaging you, they're saying all these things, and it feels like a lot.

[Chris Appleton]

Do you know why it's all right? Because I know who I am. My family knows I am. The people that I love know who I am, and I'm all right with that. And I also am not naive enough to know that if you do do something like get married on the Kardashians, there's not going to be opinion. Or if you do go on podcasts and talk about your life, or if you do, you know, you know, you go on a beach and you get photographed, you can't complain. Oh, God. It's a possibility. I mean, it's all right, though. It's okay because. Because you put yourself. I know what I'm doing. I'm putting myself out there enough to know that there is gonna. If you go to a restaurant, people might do videos of you or take pictures of you, and then that Ends up on a website, you know, I'm aware enough to know there's going to be a conversation. I'm all right with that. I don't. I don't. I don't love it when people be like, oh, I hate that side of things. Because I think when people are invested in you. Yeah. That is a part of, like, you

[Jamie]

know when people say everything right.

[Chris Appleton]

Totally. And they'll come to you, hey, can I take a picture? And I was drinking. It's nice and it's flattering and, like, it's very sweet. I just think it's like, if you put yourself out there, these people are invested in you and they kind of want to know and there's going to be a conversation. And look, sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad, but that's okay. I remember once there was a conversation that went out and I was, like, freaking out of my publicist and I was like, this. We need to. I shouldn't have done this. We should took it down. It was actually when the Jay Shetty thing came out, to be really honest, why not? So the Jay Shetty podcast came out and everyone was like, he knew he was gay. He ruined that woman's life. And I was looking at some of the comments and I was on a plane. Things always happen to me when I'm on a plane. I was stuck. Why open the door and jump out? And the WI fi is, you can't ring anyone. I love to have it's that all

[Jamie]

night time at like, it's like a Sunday at like 11 o'.

[Chris Appleton]

Clock.

[Jamie]

And you're like, what?

[Chris Appleton]

Wake up. I need to talk to people. I'm like, what the. So I'm looking at these comments. It's like, he's evil. And I'm like, oh, my God. There. I literally was like, back to that time when I came out, I tried to kill myself. I was like, you know, Right. Like, I'm the worst.

[Jamie]

And also, you've also. You've also been open for like the first time properly.

[Chris Appleton]

And so we've come a long way, people, you know? Nope. Right. Okay, cool. So I was like, get this video taken. I should never. Like, let's get it down, please. Let's take it down. Like, I can't.

[Jamie]

This is.

[Chris Appleton]

I can't take it. I was like, I'm having a panic attack. And I felt like I was bringing. Making everyone ashamed again and bringing all this shit up for people. I was so afraid. And my publicist was like, chris, it's viral. And I was like, I know, and it's bad. And she was like, chris, you can't go viral and there not be a conversation you have. You want to get it taken down, we'll take it down. But. But some are good. You're only seeing the bad, which is what you do. You only see the bad. And I was like, you know what? Do you know what?

[Jamie]

That's such a good. And also, it's so true when you say your truth. Right. Whatever it is, once you are honest about yourself, yeah, there's gonna be judgment, especially when it's in the public eye. And it can't always just be good. You're going to get banned.

[Chris Appleton]

You have to accept that and that it's actually. It's all right. It's healthy. It's healthy for there to be a conversation. And I'm kind of like, all right. Do you know why it's all right? Cause like I said, say I kind of. For the first time in my life, I. I'm good with who I am. I never have been. I think I would have been so knocked before. And for anyone watching this who do struggle with it, if you are so knocked, maybe there is a bit of work you need to do in finding yourself and knowing who you truly are. And that's, like, kind of why I wrote the book, to help these people. From my experience of how I found. Some of that doesn't mean you're perfect. It just means that you can kind of be solid enough not to be completely knocked over with every gust of wind. And, you know, honestly, sometimes I think some of it's a little bit funny. Some of the comments, really, people say. People say about my face, my hair. I'm like. I'm like, do I have a big face? My face. Everyone says I have a big face. But in the book, I write a whole chapter about envy and about how dark envy can be. And in my life, I could be very envious from many people that I've worked with in my life because they have it all or. Or seem to.

[Jamie]

Oh, okay.

[Chris Appleton]

I have. I've try to. And thankfully, it's been something I've always done. Even if I was passing pins, learning how to do hair at a fashion show, and I was the bottom of the barrel, passing pins. I would watch the headstarts. I'd be like, what makes him the head stylist? What makes him the best? How does his hands move? How's he talking to people? How does he conduct himself? And I would just absorb it, absorb it. And so even with the women I work with, some of the most successful women's in business. Look what Kim did with skims. I'm just like a sponge. I watched her create skims, come up with, you know, it was originally kimono and then she changed the netting. I've watched the whole and I've just been like a sponge absorbing it. And I think what I.

[Jamie]

That's the best advice for someone. Someone. Someone listening or watching. Now become a sponge 100%.

[Chris Appleton]

But you could quite quickly become a cunt because you could just become jealous.

[Jamie]

Yeah, a lot of people become jealous.

[Chris Appleton]

You go on social media, I want that body. Why do they always have that partner? They look like they've got it easy. Look how luscious the hair is. They don't even want a hair extension. It's like so easy to get jealous. Oh, my God. They go to everything. They get invited to everything. Jealousy can be really dark and it can get you to a really dark place. And I encourage people and talk about it in the book of trying to get to a place where you can look at the person and acknowledge there's something about what they're doing. I like. There's something that I want about what they've got. So using that person as more of motivation and a bit more of a mentor to be like, how did they get to where they've got? And I use the men as a bit of an experiment to like dissect how they got there and their challenges and stuff. And then first of all, you sort of then realize the build and it makes you more empathetic, but it just takes that kind of the green, dark rootedness of envy, because envy can just make you sit at home and be a miserable. And, you know, I think that's really sad. Whereas in actual fact, you could use it as motivation to get the up and do something, you know?

[Jamie]

Damn straight. Yeah, let's go.

[Chris Appleton]

Let's go. Who we jealous of?

[Jamie]

No one.

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[Jamie]

thank you. Man, by the way, this has been freaking great.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, good.

[Jamie]

And also it's one of the things because you are British, right? And we see you just killing it in the US I think Brits are always a bit like, yeah, let's freaking go. Oh, like that. There is a lot of that, I think now, which is good. Where before? Yeah, for sure. So, man, you and being open and honest and just fun and everything is just the best. So thanks, dude. I appreciate it. We have eight last questions. You ready for this?

[Chris Appleton]

Let's keep going. I'm going to be aware now.

[Jamie]

Here we go.

[Chris Appleton]

Here we go.

[Jamie]

What's the saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up at the minute?

[Chris Appleton]

It's your roots don't define you. Because I've been talking about it so much and honestly, I just think a lot of the time they do and it reminds me that they don't.

[Jamie]

Best compliment anyone's ever given you.

[Chris Appleton]

I have a huge personality, which I think goes a long way.

[Jamie]

What scares you most about yourself?

[Chris Appleton]

Just that, you know, I think I like to. My motto is always to like, die with memories, not dreams. So I really like to live.

[Jamie]

Live Great one love that.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, I think that's really powerful.

[Jamie]

That is a good.

[Chris Appleton]

And you know, like when you were talking about my marriage earlier or different decisions I've made throughout my life, I think that's one of the things, like I try and follow my heart as much as I can. And I think sometimes the thing that scares me though is, is doing that because I think sometimes a little bit more reality is needing. I think it's in that one.

[Jamie]

When was the last time you cried?

[Chris Appleton]

I cried the other day. Talking to someone. I'm kind of talking to you right now and talking about my life. And I was speaking about Kate and that she was the one that saw me and talking about love and what that means, and I got really upset and cried and then they cried. I know.

[Jamie]

Are you open for a relationship now?

[Chris Appleton]

I don't like open relationships. I've been in them. I just didn't know.

[Jamie]

But are you open?

[Chris Appleton]

They didn't tell me. That was one of the. That's the other problem, you see. That's the other problem. Problem. I'M like, I've always been in monogamous relationships, but not apparently.

[Jamie]

But are you. Are you also open for. Because you're single right now or are you not single? Okay.

[Chris Appleton]

Whoa. What am I? I don't know. Okay.

[Jamie]

All right, we'll leave it there. What's something you can't let go of?

[Chris Appleton]

I think I've tried to get to a place where I am really good at letting things go. Like I said, I'm really loyal until I'm not. And once I'm done, I'm gone.

[Jamie]

What's your guilty pleasure?

[Chris Appleton]

Many things. Things I can't say on this thing. I don't know. Guilty pleasure just generally is like. Probably binge in a Netflix show, eating way too much. No.

[Jamie]

What is the one you've been watching? The ice hockey thing.

[Chris Appleton]

Heated Robbery. Yeah, but that made me sad.

[Jamie]

What turns you off?

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, just liars, people that lie, people that are inconsistent, people that talk the talk and don't walk the walk. Walk. I just think I've. I'm allergic to that.

[Jamie]

Now, what turns you on?

[Chris Appleton]

Honesty, Kindness, Passion. I. I think it's really hot when someone, even. I don't care if you work at Starbucks, but if you love it and you're passionate about it, that's really.

[Jamie]

Passion's everything.

[Chris Appleton]

Yeah, passion.

[Jamie]

What do you like most about yourself?

[Chris Appleton]

That I'm proportionate. Are we talking about physique, physical, or. We're talking about. What are we talking about?

[Jamie]

Can be anything you want.

[Chris Appleton]

Why are you laughing at me?

[Jamie]

I wasn't expecting that answer.

[Chris Appleton]

Oh, I asked that question a lot on days I. What's your favorite body part? Yeah, what's your favorite body part?

[Jamie]

Mine is my feet. I have good feet. I actually do. I'd show you that. I have good feet.

[Chris Appleton]

I have really good feet, too. I'll show you mine.

[Jamie]

Well, maybe not say, but I hang out. I have quite.

[Chris Appleton]

Did I have a pedicure jump? Pedicure. Yours?

[Jamie]

I've had one before, but I don't typically have a pedicure.

[Chris Appleton]

Are they cute?

[Jamie]

Your feet are bigger than mine. Jeez.

[Chris Appleton]

I've got this tattoo on.

[Jamie]

Yeah, we got good feet. There we go.

[Chris Appleton]

That's my wedding date. Look, I bit on my ankle. Forgot I had that.

[Jamie]

Chris. Thank you, man. Honestly, I want everyone to go get this book. We're going to leave a link in the description where you go and click on it as well. You're incredible. You're amazing. Thank you so much. We adore you, man. You're the best. Thank you so much.

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