EXCLUSIVE - TULISA'S UNTOLD TRUTH BEHIND DRUGS SCANDAL

Summary

Great Company Podcast – Episode Summary: EXCLUSIVE: TULISA'S UNTOLD TRUTH BEHIND DRUGS SCANDAL

Release Date: August 12, 2025
Host: Jamie Lang
Guest: Talisa, former lead singer of N Dubs and author of "Judgment"

---

1. Introduction

In this exclusive episode of Great Company, host Jamie Lang delves deep into the harrowing and inspiring story of Talisa, the former lead singer of the popular band N Dubs. Talisa opens up about her meteoric rise to fame, the devastating entrapment scandal involving drugs, and her remarkable journey towards healing and self-discovery.

---

2. Talisa’s Early Career and Rise to Fame

Talisa recounts her early days with N Dubs, highlighting the band’s modest beginnings and eventual rise to stardom. She shares insights into the band's dynamics, family connections, and the challenges they faced growing up in tough environments.

Talisa (04:00): "Talisa, Dappy, and Phazer were cousins, and we grew up amidst severe hardships. Despite being labeled as a 'bad group,' we broke through and achieved amazing things."

The band’s success culminated in sold-out shows and high-profile engagements, including Talisa becoming the youngest judge on X Factor.

Jamie Lang (21:17): "N Dubs became huge, and you then became X Factor’s youngest judge. It was high flying, and your name was on everyone's lips."

---

3. The Entrapment Scandal

At the pinnacle of her career, Talisa was suddenly embroiled in a scandal orchestrated by The Sun newspaper. She was accused of selling £800 worth of cocaine, an allegation that derailed her career and personal life.

Jamie Lang (05:12): "She was set up by The Sun newspaper, leading to her arrest for selling £800 worth of cocaine."

The sting operation involved persistent harassment from industry insiders demanding drugs, which Talisa repeatedly refused. Despite her refusals, the pressure culminated in her arrest.

Talisa (26:27): "They kept pestering me about getting drugs. I had to make excuses every time."

---

4. Legal Battle and Media Manipulation

Talisa explains the intricate legal loopholes that prevented her from defending herself effectively. Due to journalistic privileges, The Sun did not have to reveal their sources, making it impossible for Talisa to prove her innocence in court.

Talisa (30:39): "They don’t have to reveal that source in court because of journalistic privileges, so their word can be accepted."

Her defense hinged on revelations from Alan Smith, a long-time associate who recanted his false statement, ultimately saving her from wrongful imprisonment.

Jamie Lang (33:25): "He saved my life. Otherwise, I was going to prison because I couldn't defend myself."

---

5. Impact on Talisa’s Life and Career

The scandal led to the collapse of Talisa’s career, financial losses, and significant emotional and mental strain. She lost her branding endorsements, a house deposit, and faced a future with uncertain income.

Talisa (29:32): "I lost the half-a-million quid deposit on a house and had a million quid in legal bills to pay with no future income."

---

6. Path to Recovery and Personal Growth

After the ordeal, Talisa embarked on a journey of self-healing and spiritual growth. She emphasizes the importance of inner peace, self-worth, and balancing light with darkness to build resilience.

Talisa (17:37): "I'm just pure acceptance. If you can't control it, let it go."

She discusses how she overcame her past, embraced spiritualism, and focused on ascension to her higher self, which became her new purpose.

Talisa (55:29): "My purpose now is spiritual ascension for myself, inner peace, and happiness."

---

7. Writing and Releasing "Judgment”

Talisa spent a decade writing her book, "Judgment", chronicling her experiences with raw honesty and emotional depth. The book serves as both a memoir and a work of art, aiming to inspire others facing similar struggles.

Talisa (65:27): "I spent 10 years writing it, and it's bloody good. It's super juicy and exciting."

She narrates her writing process, the challenges of releasing such a personal account, and her desire for the book to serve as a beacon of hope and inspiration.

Talisa (46:15): "I set myself these time goals, and now I am over it. I'm ready to release the book."

---

8. Reflections on Life and Moving Forward

In the latter part of the interview, Talisa shares profound insights on life’s transient nature, the importance of letting go of resentment, and embracing one's true self. She offers heartfelt advice to listeners who might be in their darkest moments.

Talisa (45:44): "If you're holding so much resentment towards someone, you're relying on their actions for your happiness. You need to find inner peace first."

She emphasizes resilience, self-love, and the power of inner strength to overcome adversity.

Jamie Lang (45:28): "They might be in their darkest moment. What would you say to them?"

Talisa (45:44): "Hold on, set time frames for yourself, and see how you feel."

---

9. Quick Fire Questions

To wrap up the episode, Talisa engages in a quick-fire segment with Jamie, revealing lighter aspects of her personality:

• Favorite Saying: "You gotta go through it to grow through it."
• Scariest Aspect of Herself: "My dark side. In a zombie apocalypse, I would kill everyone and take over the world."
• Recent Crying Incident: "Yesterday, because of my dog."
• Guilty Pleasure: Reality TV.
• What Turns Her Off: Ignorance and oversized egos.
• What Turns Her On: Love, light, and empathy.
• Favorite Swear Word: "Wankstain."

---

10. Conclusion

Jamie and Talisa conclude the episode by encouraging listeners to purchase her book, "Judgment", which promises an unflinching look into her life’s trials and triumphs. Talisa’s story is a testament to resilience, personal growth, and the enduring human spirit.

Jamie Lang (67:27): "Talisa, you set this up so well. We hope you enjoyed the episode. Go and get this book, everybody. You're the best."

Listeners are left inspired by Talisa’s candid recounting of her struggles and her unwavering journey towards inner peace and fulfillment.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Jamie Lang (05:12): "She was set up by The Sun newspaper, leading to her arrest for selling £800 worth of cocaine."
• Talisa (26:27): "They kept pestering me about getting drugs. I had to make excuses every time."
• Talisa (30:39): "They don’t have to reveal that source in court because of journalistic privileges, so their word can be accepted."
• Talisa (55:29): "My purpose now is spiritual ascension for myself, inner peace, and happiness."
• Talisa (45:44): "If you're holding so much resentment towards someone, you're relying on their actions for your happiness. You need to find inner peace first."

---

Final Thoughts:

Talisa’s candid and heartfelt narrative offers invaluable lessons on overcoming adversity, the pitfalls of fame, and the transformative power of self-discovery. Her story serves as both a cautionary tale and a beacon of hope for those navigating their own challenges.

---

Stay Connected:

For more inspiring conversations and exclusive stories, subscribe to Great Company on your favorite podcast platform. Engage with the community via Instagram at @greatcompanypodcast or email at greatcompanyampodproductions.co.uk.

Transcript

[Daryna]

Hi, I'm Daryna, co founder of OpenPhone. My dad is a business owner and growing up, I'll never forget his old ringtone. He made it as loud as it could go because he could not afford to miss a single customer call. That stuck with me when we started OpenPhone. Our mission was to help businesses not just stay in touch, but make every customer feel valued, no matter when they might call. OpenPhone gives your team business phone numbers to call and text code customers all through an app on your phone or computer. Your calls, messages and contacts live in one workspace so your team can stay fully aligned and reply faster. And with our AI agent answering 24. 7, you'll really never miss a customer. Over 60,000 businesses use OpenPhone. Try it now and get 20% off your first six [e-mail] tech and we can port your existing numbers over for free. Open Phone. No missed calls, no missed customers hello.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of how to Fail. It's the podcast that celebrates the things in life that haven't gone right and what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better. Each week my guests share three failures sparking intimate, thought provoking and funny conversations you'll hear from a diverse range of voices sharing what they've learned through their failures. To join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jamie Lang]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com.

[Unknown]

Hey, do you want to hear the next big new tech podcast hit? Before anyone else, check out the Daily Tech News Show. At Experiment Week we're swapping out our normal shows to try out some new ideas. We've done this before and launched big hits like behind the Data, the Tech John and more. This year we have exclusive Android faithful reactions to the Pixel 9 event. It's all on the DTNS feed starting August 11th. Don't miss it.

[Jamie Lang]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com hello everyone, my name is Jamie Lang and this is Great Company. Welcome back everyone to Great Company Podcast.

[Elizabeth Day]

Happy Wednesday.

[Jamie Lang]

Happy Wednesday or whatever day you're listening to this Thursday Friday. There are two voices here. One is me, Jamie, the host and.

[Elizabeth Day]

You are Jemima, the producer.

[Jamie Lang]

She's the producer, pj. She likes to be called pj. And if you're new to the show, we basically talk to amazing guests every single week. And if you're an og and you've been here before. You know exactly why you're here, and it's hopefully something that you like and enjoy.

[Elizabeth Day]

Look forward to the highlight of your week.

[Jamie Lang]

100%.

[Elizabeth Day]

I've just got to say, Jamie is wearing a quite a noisy rain Mac. So if you hear someone shuffling around.

[Jamie Lang]

Shuffling, shuffling, shuffling or shuffling.

[Elizabeth Day]

I don't know, Shuffling. Give us a shuffle. Yeah, listen to that. That's just Jamie wiggling in his seat.

[Jamie Lang]

Shuffling, shuffling in his seat. Hey.

[Elizabeth Day]

Deeply distracted by that.

[Jamie Lang]

Gone, by the way.

[Elizabeth Day]

Gone.

[Jamie Lang]

We have an exclusive today.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's so exciting.

[Jamie Lang]

Very, very exciting. And this brings me back to, like, a real nostalgic time in my life when I was a teenager and a huge fan, because we have Talisa. Talisa, Talisa. On the podcast today, Talisa was the lead singer in a band called N Dubs.

[Elizabeth Day]

Can you remember what are their hits?

[Jamie Lang]

Oh, when I look in the mirror I don't really recognize myself I'm a world on the winner.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm sorry, Listener.

[Jamie Lang]

And they always used to say, na, na, na, na.

[Talisa]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

The two other people in the band were Phaser and Dappy. Dappy. Dappy and Talisa. Dappy, yeah. Dappy and Talisa are cousins. Yeah. And Talisa and Dappis were Dappy's father, Talisa's uncle. He was the one, the rock behind the band. And Talisa dated Fazer for a while. So it's a very much a family thing. And they grew up in really sort of hard times. I mean, really hard times. Talisa's mum has severe mental health issues and had a lot growing up. There's a lot of crime around them. And even growing up in the sort of public eye and being N Dubs, they had a really tough time. Cause they were seen as this sort of, like, bad group. Like, you don't want your kids to sort of represent what N Dubs represented, but they still broke through the surface and did amazing things.

[Elizabeth Day]

Cool, though. Bands like that people think are cool.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. But the amazing thing today, Talisa's written a book called Judgment, and it's out tomorrow. It's out tomorrow.

[Elizabeth Day]

If you're listening on Wednesday.

[Jamie Lang]

If you're listening on Wednesday. And what is so interesting is that Talisa had at the top of her fame, the very top. She suddenly got it all taken away from her because she was involved in an entrapment case involving cocaine.

[Talisa]

Wow.

[Jamie Lang]

Drugs. And what turned out is that she was set up by the sun newspaper. I've actually interviewed Talisa before for something else. And she didn't want to talk about this.

[Talisa]

Really?

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. And she says now you hear about this in the episode, she now feels comfortable to talk about it. So, listeners, strap in, strap in and get ready for this exclusive episode. If you haven't subscribed to our show already, just click that button. It does us absolute wonders. And let us know in the comments what you like about the show, what guests you think we should have on next. And also you can get in touch via Instagram, reat company podcast, or email us greatcompanyampodproductions.co.uk. you ready for this?

[Elizabeth Day]

That was wonderful. Jamie just took the reins on that whole interview.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm so sorry, Jamaica. Oh, no, sorry.

[Elizabeth Day]

I don't mean it like that. I just was really enjoying. I was like, I was on that ride. Well, you keep. Listen, you set up so well.

[Jamie Lang]

Really?

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

All right.

[Elizabeth Day]

I am strapped in. I've put my seatbelt on.

[Jamie Lang]

Get ready for this episode because it's an exclusive. An exclusive with Talisa on Great Company.

[Talisa]

Hey, guys, I'm Talisa and I am in great company.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you think people know that we've met before? Because I'm like, I told you this last time. I'm like, honestly, one of your biggest fans. I'm not. I told you this last time.

[Talisa]

I offered you tickets for the London show.

[Jamie Lang]

What did I say?

[Talisa]

You just didn't respond.

[Jamie Lang]

Get out of here.

[Talisa]

Get out of here. I messaged after. I was like, come down to the show. Bring so I've got.

[Jamie Lang]

And I just didn't respond. That's a can't be. I just don't believe that's true.

[Talisa]

Well, you've both got tickets to the next one if you want it.

[Jamie Lang]

So are you gonna. You're doing. You're doing more?

[Talisa]

Yeah, we will do. We're not. We've not announced anything yet, but we're looking. It won't be any later than 2027.

[Jamie Lang]

Because last time, remember, when we last spoken, you announced that NDEBBZ was coming back. The tickets sold out under 10 minutes.

[Talisa]

Yeah. Crazy.

[Jamie Lang]

That is wild.

[Talisa]

I think the first set sold out in three and then we did another four. 02s. No, another 3:02. So four in total.

[Jamie Lang]

Three minutes.

[Talisa]

Yeah. It's bonkers.

[Jamie Lang]

What do you guys open with?

[Talisa]

Ouch.

[Jamie Lang]

Come on.

[Talisa]

Has to be done. Has to be done. And the whole arena just erupts with 6:30 in the morning. And it's just. Yeah, it's mental.

[Jamie Lang]

That. That feeling when you're back on, like.

[Talisa]

Stage, like nothing like it. Nothing like it. I actually worried because in my younger years, I feel like I did all the tours pretty much drunk. I was just like, rock star vibes. So I would get through an entire bottle of JD per show, and obviously, you know, I've aged a bit. Haven't really got it in me anymore. So I'm all tea, total training in the gym. And I thought, how am I going to do this? So bar and best tour of my life.

[Jamie Lang]

Are you serious?

[Talisa]

Loved it. Loved every second of it.

[Jamie Lang]

Because you're. You're actually living it in the present and actually enjoying it. Yeah. You're in it.

[Talisa]

Present. For the first time. I actually. I could walk off stage and remember what happened.

[Jamie Lang]

Is that what used to have. I used to go through a whole bottle of jd.

[Talisa]

Yeah, I mean, we all did. We would walk on stage with the J D bottle. It wasn't like a secret. We get the audience to, like, neck with us and grab their drinks. We were just little rock stars.

[Jamie Lang]

But is that also because, like, the Persona as well? Right.

[Talisa]

Yeah. I mean, and we'd love to drink on stage. It was just a buzz, you know? I mean, when you're like, 21, you can do that, man.

[Jamie Lang]

I used to be the same. I mean, I like, it's When I found alcohol for the first time, I was like, what is this? Nectar?

[Talisa]

Like, how are you.

[Jamie Lang]

I think I was 16 when I really experienced it. Like, I had. I had a Bacardi Breezer.

[Talisa]

Okay.

[Jamie Lang]

When I was 14.

[Talisa]

Okay.

[Jamie Lang]

And then I had a Cosmopolitan. Oh, yeah. In Club Med.

[Talisa]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Real spicy. And then I got really drunk. Maybe 15. Maybe it's 15. I got really drunk and I remember thinking it was like, what is this.

[Talisa]

Like, feeling of sensation?

[Jamie Lang]

I, like, couldn't believe this was, like, a thing that. That people get to experience and have. And I was like, man, this is like the best thing ever.

[Talisa]

Yeah. I think I was 11, and my friend's older brother, he was like, 15, he walked in the house with a bottle of Jamaican rum, and her mum was out, and he was like, do you want some? And I was like, yep. And I basically took a glass just like this, maybe just a tiny bit under. So, like a whole mug full to the brim. And I nicked the Jamaican rum. That was my first ever experience with alcohol. And the first. The first. Maybe, like half an hour was the best half an hour of mine.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, yeah. Ye.

[Talisa]

And then when the illness kicked in. Yeah, it was an experience. Anytime I smell Jamaican rum to this day, it just makes Me, I. I had it.

[Jamie Lang]

Mine was absinthe.

[Talisa]

Oh, dangerous.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, it was.

[Talisa]

Jesus.

[Unknown]

We.

[Jamie Lang]

We used to do this thing. I was. My first time that happened, I was in Portugal and we used to drink this thing called gold strike and absinthe.

[Talisa]

Okay, what's gold strike?

[Jamie Lang]

Gold strike. It was like the shot that you would do and it. They said it had gold flakes in the bottom, right? And the gold flakes probably some toxic, like lead or something. I was like, necking and suppose the idea was you'd have gold strike and absinthe mixed. The gold strike would cut your throat and the absence would then get into it and it would go into your bloodstream quicker.

[Talisa]

Wow.

[Jamie Lang]

So I was, like, necking these things and I remember walking across this, like, bridge bit next to the beach in Portugal, and what I thought was Danny from McFly.

[Talisa]

Funny.

[Jamie Lang]

Like, at the time, I was like. I thought it was Danny from McFly. I was like, 14, walking across the way. The last thing I remember woke up on do we ever find out next to Danny from McBar.

[Talisa]

Did you ever find out if it actually was Danny from McGrath?

[Jamie Lang]

I don't think it was. It was a guy, weirdly enough. Do you know who I think it was?

[Talisa]

Who?

[Jamie Lang]

This is such a random caveat, but this is what I found out years later, right? A guy called Ollie Locke did a TV show with me, Made in Chelsea.

[Talisa]

I know Ollie. Cause he was in Big Brother with Daffy, wasn't he?

[Jamie Lang]

Oh, yeah, exactly.

[Talisa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Ollie Locke said that he looked like Danny from McFly when he was younger. And. And he was also in Portugal in the same place. So I think it was Ollie Locke.

[Talisa]

This is. This is one of the world's greatest mysteries.

[Jamie Lang]

Mad.

[Talisa]

I love Ollie. He always sends me, like, little random DMs, like, out the blue, like, once.

[Jamie Lang]

Dappy's your cousin.

[Talisa]

Yes.

[Jamie Lang]

And Fraser was also friends with Dappy. And also you knew. So you were just a team together.

[Talisa]

Right.

[Jamie Lang]

And you and N Dub started at such a young age. I know you've spoken about that just before. People who haven't had the context. Just tell me, just really briefly, how that all started.

[Talisa]

Well, Daffy and Fasa met at the age of 8 years old in karate lessons.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

And then they became best friends. And so then I was always with Dappy. Daffy was like my best mate and my brother, even though he was my cousin.

[Jamie Lang]

Who was the leader out of YouTube when you were younger?

[Talisa]

Him.

[Jamie Lang]

Was he.

[Talisa]

He was the leader and the bad influence. Okay, all right. And I used to think like, he was super cool because he was Mr. Popular and I was a bit of a nerd. And then I obviously met Phaser through him. And then when we got to 11, I decided I wanted to move to Daffy's school, Daphne and Phaser's school to be with them. And I remember Daps and phase took me shopping to make me cool. You know, like one of those old school teen movies where the girl's like, super nerdy and she's got, like glasses and pigtails. And then Daffy's like, right, you're gonna wear these gap jumpers and get these night tns. And then he's like, are you gonna wear your hair like this? No, do it in a side part in gonna wear these earrings. And then he, like, brought me into school, like, this is my super cool cousin. And I was just there dressed up as an imposter. And yeah, we started making music from then, from the age of like 11 years old in my dad and my Uncle B studio. Little terrors, always bunking off school. But at least we're doing something productive, which paid off. And yeah, we. We didn't really get any success until the age of, I want to say 17. So there was a long run running up before we actually cracked it of us perfecting our craft and grafting away, making music. There's a lot of unheard when we were called the little rinsers.

[Jamie Lang]

Like the Little Rascals.

[Talisa]

Yeah, like the little Rinses. Because we rinse the mic. We were 11, man. I like it with a CK. The lickle rinses.

[Jamie Lang]

I read that when you were younger, all you wanted to be was rich and famous.

[Talisa]

Yeah. In that order.

[Jamie Lang]

Why was that? So why was that such an aspiration for you? Why did you want to get that?

[Talisa]

Life was just a bit crap for me. And I spent most of my childhood wanting freedom, wanting to live by myself, wanting to have my own place. And I felt like the only way I could do that and the easiest way I could do it was to utilize my talent and get rich and famous.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. It's funny because when I was younger, I. That's what I wanted to be. I thought that if I was. If I could get some sort of fame then and almost be, like, loved by everyone, then all of these sort of insecurities that I was feeling would go away. 100.

[Talisa]

But they didn't.

[Jamie Lang]

Oh, no, they got worse. Yeah, it got worse.

[Talisa]

Always the way.

[Jamie Lang]

It's weird. It's sort of be careful what you wish for.

[Talisa]

Yeah. And I think what it is, is you spend your entire childhood basing your life around this hope of this feeling that everything's going to be perfect if you can gain this. And then when you get there and you feel the void is still there.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

Then it's like 10 times worse because any anxiety or depression that you had comes crashing down even further. Because you're like, well, what now? Because at least you had the hope that if you got to that place, everything would be okay. And then if you get there and then it's not at all, then you're like, now what now? What's going to fill the void?

[Jamie Lang]

It's so right. We have this, like, blueprint sometimes. And when the blueprint doesn't live up to what it's meant to be, you're suddenly, like, stuck. You're like, hang on, my North Star. The thing that I thought was going to get me out of this place isn't.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And then you're suddenly thinking, fuck.

[Talisa]

Now what the fuck?

[Jamie Lang]

Now what the fuck do I do?

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Why did you want to escape your childhood so much?

[Talisa]

My mom had severe mental health issues, so she has schizoaffective disorder, which is bipolar and schizophrenia combined.

[Jamie Lang]

Man.

[Talisa]

She. Look, it's not her fault, but she was constantly going through waves of illness. I don't think I can remember longer than a year of her being completely well where she didn't, you know, take a turn. And it would. It would. We'd call it episodes. So it would kind of be this progressive journey where she'd start to change. The whole thing. Could last about eight months. After maybe a month, six weeks of the change, it would get really bad. Then she'd have to be hospitalized, and then she would remain in hospital for months and months and months. I would go to an aunt's house, and then she'd come out, start going into recovery. I'd be sent over for visits, and then I'd get slowly integrated back into the home again. But this would just repeat every year and a half, constantly. Um, so it just wasn't a great time. And I wanted my space and I wanted my freedom and I wanted to escape.

[Jamie Lang]

It's hard to understand that when you're a kid. Right. That's hard to process, comprehend. Really hard to comprehend.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And I always. I always find it's like. Especially people in the public life, especially, like, yourself, people just see you as like, Talisa.

[Talisa]

Yeah. We don't walk around with life stories slapped on our forehead, so it's very easy to just.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Is Your mum okay now?

[Talisa]

She's okay. Unfortunately, she has Alzheimer's now because of all the years of the constant medication she's had to be on. It shrinks the brain. So, you know, that's now another added thing to the situation. But, you know, it is what it is, as is life. And these things happen.

[Jamie Lang]

You're, you're. I can. Even the way you're like expressing it, right, I can almost feel like you, it's almost like in a box. You're just like, that's what, that's what it is.

[Talisa]

Just pure acceptance. Like I've just come to the point in my life where if you can't control it, let it go. And I'm like that with everything. I can't do that.

[Jamie Lang]

That's for me, that's a really hard thing.

[Talisa]

Sometimes I feel like there's no other option. I will go insane otherwise if I take like, I can't take on the weight of the world and constant stresses and drama. I'm just at the point where anything that stresses me out or disturbs my peace, I'm just like, I can't.

[Jamie Lang]

Good on you, man. Don't get through that barrier. Hold that armor.

[Talisa]

Oh, 100. Like, I couldn't be any other way. I think because I am prone to, you know, depression and stuff like that, my mental health can be fragile so I have to do the utmost to protect it. Which means surrounding myself with constant positivity. No negative energy, no toxicity, no low vibrational humans. It's just keeping the life, keeping my life the way I want it, creating the life I want to live and creating the environment that I want to be in. And a lot of the time we have a choice with that totally and we forget that and there's a lot we can do. And I always say when you're going through life and you're feeling like isn't right, look into you and go, okay, what is there for me to do? No matter how small or how big, what change can I make? Before you start, you know, moaning and looking out to the whole world going, you know, it's everyone else and putting blame and do what you can control first and then see how you feel.

[Jamie Lang]

Well done. That's a really great advice. It's 100% true. And I suppose when that's all going on at home and then end dubs is that huge escape. Right. So you're then like, right, I can just, I can put my all into this because this is going to take me away from all of that.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So Here we go. I'm going to. Just going to go full blast into it, 100%.

[Talisa]

It's like I was obsessed with it. I used to sit in my bed at night, banging my head against the wall, going, you have to let me make it like talking to God. Remember once I. It's so effed up. I made this like I thought I was making. Obviously God doesn't do deals like this, but I was like, I'm willing to sacrifice something. I said, I looked up to the sky and I said to God, you can take love away. I'll never have a partner, I'll never get married, I'll never have any children, I'll never be in love with anyone. Just give me my career. That's all I want. I'll trade that if I have to. I'll sacrifice it. Like. Like God makes deals. But that was. Yeah, but that was my thing.

[Jamie Lang]

Sometimes you make a deal with yourself, right?

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And so then you think you're making a deal with God, but actually making a deal with self.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And so therefore you do, you end up again. Be careful what you wish for because then what you do is you start sacrificing everything to gain that success. And normally that is social life, love life.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Friendships, everything.

[Talisa]

Yeah. 100.

[Jamie Lang]

When you became famous, what did it feel like to you?

[Talisa]

Oh, it was like, I've. I've done it. It was that. Yes, it was. I felt like I wasn't alone as well because I. It's all that I'd prayed for. So I was like, you gave it to me. So it was that kind of feeling life made. Life made. Nothing can describe that buzz, that initial buzz. When we first cracked it. I can remember doing the first show where we got success and it was in a place called Red Hill and there was like this, just a 2000 capacity club, but we'd sold out and we went in there, 2,000 kids singing every word to our song, back to back from the top of their lungs, screaming at us like we were bloody Justin Bieber and me, Dappy and baser, just looked at each other and were like, what is going on? And that was the moment. And then be got to see that Daffy's dad and then he literally passed like three days later. But he got to see the moment before he went.

[Jamie Lang]

And B was your uncle who basically made it all happen.

[Talisa]

Yeah, yeah. What Alleged props to Uncle B.

[Jamie Lang]

N Dobbs becomes huge. You then become X Factor's youngest judge on it. It's like high flying. Everything is going, yeah, and it is like you're the name on everyone's lips. Like, everyone.

[Talisa]

Yeah, it was a crazy.

[Jamie Lang]

It's, it was a great. I remember being at university and just seeing you and just thinking, you, you're the queen or you, you really, you were, you were just there. Yeah, 100%. I'm like, I'm sorry, that was the worst thing I've ever done. But you were like 100% like. And, and then the next stage is, what's happening is that the, the press is constantly like after you. They're constantly after you. They're trying to find things, they're digging things up, they're just doing everything. They're going for you, going for you. And then suddenly you're caught in a sting entrapment. Completely. Explain to me everything. I want to know every little bit of detail, honestly. Just tell me everything what happened?

[Talisa]

God. Okay, here we go. I had gone to la. I was really sick of doing X Factor because of the press attention and the media. It was really heavy for me. So I wanted an escape. So I thought, let me go into acting. It means I could move to la. I could, you know, become someone else when I'm working. As soon as I got off the plane, I had received like a Twitter DM from 21st Century Fox. Someone at 21st Century Fox using their official account, putting me in touch with these Bollywood sl. Hollywood producers that are interested in me for a movie role. A long story short is I go into about four to five months of meetings with these producers. I've flown to Las Vegas, like first class flights, hotels. They basically told me they're doing their first big Bollywood slash Hollywood production. It's going to have Kieran Knightley. No, not Kieran. It's going to have Leonardo DiCaprio in it. And the, the, the lead female is going to be this sort of ghetto girl, like a ghetto girl from Camden. And it's this kind of troubled love story because of a culture clash.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

But she's like really hood and she's kind of naughty and she's from the streets. And we think you'd be right for the role because you are that character in real life. But we want to give it to also possibly Kiera Knightley. So I know it's so messed up, but when you're getting DMS from 21st Century Fox and you're getting flown to Las Vegas and you're looking for your.

[Jamie Lang]

Way out, you're looking for that moment as well.

[Talisa]

Yeah. And there's a million actors that they've hired, right, so you've got. They've got their own accountants, they've got lawyers, they're pulling up contracts, they're pulling up scripts. Like, it was so extreme. Like, they're sitting down with my accountant talking about, you know, how I'm going to receive the 3 million pound fee. And then they've obviously, they tried to get me done for offshore accounts as well. So they were trying to put that to my accountant. Luckily, he was like, no, we don't do all that around here. But, yeah, and they just kept goading me to play up to the bad girl role. There was an assistant of one of the producers who was a female, and this assistant kind of befriended me. She said she was a big Talisa fan. She knew about my mum's mental health, she knew about how spiritual I was. She'd read my original autobiography and she's like, I really want to help you. And she would pull me in the toilet and take the recorders off, like herself. She would have left her recorders off. And then she'll say to me, listen, I need you to go up there, out there and up the ante. Like, you have to make him believe that you are this ghetto chick in the role, otherwise he's not going to give you the role, he's going to give it to Kira Knightley. So I literally go from saying, yeah, I used to smoke a bit of weed and I was in a bit of a, you know, rough group of girls and we used to have fights to, oh, yeah, I used to sell crack. You know, I know people with guns. I know every drug dealer in London. Like, I just. You can hear the difference from. Like, I have this prior conversation, then I've gone in the bathroom, then I come out and it's like, whoo. Off the Richter scale because all your.

[Jamie Lang]

Dreams about to come true.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So you're going to try and sell it any way you possibly can. Together.

[Talisa]

Does it make. In my mind, I'm like, I. I can do this role 100. So I'm. If you want me to just blag that, I'm super, super ghetto, I can block you. So I did. And then they just kept pestering me about getting drugs. Well, now, obviously I've said, I know every drug dealer in London and they keep harassing me like, oh, we need coke, we need coke. And I just kept making excuses, like, every time I was out with them, every time there's a dinner because I didn't know anybody, they kept asking for it. Yeah, like, can you get us Some coke. And obviously they're like Hollywood people, and, like, all the people are up to all sorts, so I wasn't surprised by it.

[Jamie Lang]

And were you feeling at this time that this is. This is weird? This is strange? This is.

[Talisa]

No, because half the industry does cocaine. So I didn't. I was just probably one of the only few that didn't. So to me, I was like, yeah, of course they're on gear.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

So I wasn't surprised at all. I should have thought, why can't they get their own if they got so many links? Why do you have to keep pestering me? But they just kept pestering and pestering, and I'd said no multiple times.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

And then eventually they got a telephone number and they called that number and they asked for £800 worth of coke in one call. £800. And then basically I was arrested for concern in the selling of £800 worth of cocaine. Class A drugs.

[Jamie Lang]

Man. What? Like, it's. It's.

[Talisa]

It's just mind blowing.

[Jamie Lang]

It's completely mind blowing, that. Okay, so what was the moment when you suddenly realized that was all a sting, that it was all entrapment, that none of it was real?

[Talisa]

My manager walked in. I was sat in the living room playing PlayStation, and my manager walked in and he just had this look of horror in his face, and he was like, it's all a lie. It was all a lie. It was all a lie. I was like, well, what's all a lie? And he was like, it was all a lie. And he's showing me the headline, like, the headlines come out, talisa's Cocaine Shame. And everything is in there. And the recordings of me saying all this messed up, you know, that I used to sell crack and everyone I know has got guns. And I know every drug dealer in London, they're just relaying that in the story, but not saying why. So there's no mention of the entrapment. What? All the things that they've done. They spent four months doing this. It's just Talisa went and set up £800 worth of cocaine to be sold, and she also said all of this to our person that was recording her. So, like, with no reason why. And then I had to stay quiet about that. It started when I was 24, finished when I was 26. And I had to stay quiet about the whole thing for that whole, like, two years of my life. Just letting the public think that while facing two, four years in prison, man.

[Jamie Lang]

I can't even imagine.

[Talisa]

Yeah, you.

[Jamie Lang]

You're. You're 24 at the top of your game. You have everything going for you. And then because these articles come out and element stops.

[Talisa]

Yeah. Everything's. Everything's gone.

[Jamie Lang]

Everything.

[Talisa]

So I don't have this movie role and now I haven't fought to keep X Factor because I thought, I've got the film. So that's why I just wasn't interested in them. All my branding endorsements, everything's frozen. I just put a half million quid deposit on a house and I hadn't completed the mortgage yet, so I lost the half. A million quid and then I had a million quid in legal bills to pay and no future income.

[Jamie Lang]

Oh, my God.

[Talisa]

Yeah. It's catastrophe.

[Jamie Lang]

It's. It's like. It's beyond. Yeah, it's the eye of the storm to. To the utmost level.

[Talisa]

Yeah, Utmost level. And then as well, they did. They did it in such a clever way. There's so many technicalities with the way they did this entrapment. When it gets to court, number one, entrapment isn't illegal. I thought it was in the UK at the time. It's not illegal unless they can prove if. If they can prove that they have a source that led them to believe that I actually was selling cocaine.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

So their theory was I was. I was a drug dealer. I was a X Factor judge slash drug. Drug dealer in my spare time. Right. This is their story. And that they had a source that could confirm this to them, which is why they came after me. But they don't have to reveal that source in court because of something called journalistic privileges. So if they couldn't prove they had a source, the whole case would have fallen apart. But they don't have to prove they have a source because of journalistic privileges, so their word, it can be accepted.

[Jamie Lang]

So they're in a loophole.

[Talisa]

Right. So they're in a loophole. Then the next loophole is I. My whole defense is this woman called Nish, who kept goading me and bringing me to the toilet, telling me to say this stuff. But Nish doesn't have to appear in court. She's just a journalist that he hired. And because of journalistic privileges, she doesn't have to turn up. And if she doesn't turn up, I can't speak about her, therefore I can't talk about my defense. So they locked me down in the position where I couldn't even say to the jury what had happened, so I couldn't defend myself in court. So it got to the point where my Lawyer was saying, you're gonna have to shout out what happened, the whole niche thing to the jury and they're gonna hold you in contempt and they're probably gonna drag you to a cell. But it's the only way they're going to find out because you're not allowed. They've basically. In the pre trial, I wasn't allowed to put forward my defense because it involved Nish and Nish didn't have to come to court.

[Jamie Lang]

Did you shout it out?

[Talisa]

It didn't get to that point. So what happened is a guy that Mahmoud worked with for like 20 years.

[Jamie Lang]

Plus, this is the daughter who acts as the sheikh.

[Talisa]

Yeah. So Mahmoud is the guy that acts as the Sheikh. And his, his guy that he works with, his name was Alan Smith. He plays the driver. And so he would drive me around to locations also recording me and listening to me. Now when they initially approached Alan, the police did. Alan had said that I had had a conversation in the car about being anti drugs, that there was someone that I knew that was hooked on drugs. How distraught I was about it. I was going to try and do everything to get them off of it and that I was going to try and bring them to my house and keep them there and get them clean and that I couldn't have drug dealers anywhere near my house. It was all anti drugs, anti drug dealers. And he gave that statement to the police, which is true. This is a conversation I had in the back of the car. Mahmoud realized that he'd made this statement and he got him to retract the statement. So then a week later or a couple of weeks later, Alan Smith calls back the police and says, oh, it wasn't her, I made a mistake. It was her friend next to her that had this conversation. But this is something my lawyers were bringing up in court and in the initial pre trial they had said some amood. Did you tell Mr. Allen Smith to change his statement? No, I didn't tend to do that. And then Alan Smith stepped forward the week of trial while we're in court and just handed my lawyers the email of him emailing him to change it. Like a guilt conscious guilty conscience.

[Jamie Lang]

God.

[Talisa]

And he saved my life. Otherwise I was going, I was going to prison because I couldn't even defend myself. I was banged to rights.

[Jamie Lang]

You think you would have ended up in prison?

[Talisa]

Yeah, because I couldn't even give my defense. What's my argument? I'm legally not allowed to say what happened.

[Jamie Lang]

There's mad at the, the legal system works that way. That you can't defend yourself when you have a. You have evidence and people there.

[Talisa]

No. Just because of legal loopholes. There's no, it's not about right and wrong. It's just legal technicalities.

[Jamie Lang]

And then this man, Mahmoud, he's now. He got sent to prison.

[Talisa]

He then got sent to prison.

[Jamie Lang]

What a fool.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

When you're in the court and you're going through that moment, you don't know what your future is going to hold. How, how scary is that moment?

[Talisa]

Do you know what? Like, I, I do mention a lot in the book is the hope I had this, this spiritual sense. There were times that I felt hopeless, but there were other moments like in the court. And I actually still have this note that I wrote. I used to doodle when I was in the courtroom and I just, I wrote this note that I said, good always prevails over evil. And literally within, I think it was like five minutes of me writing that note is when the case basically fell apart. So I have that piece of paper framed in my office.

[Jamie Lang]

You're like an ultimate manifesto.

[Talisa]

Like, oh my God, I'm so sick at manifesting.

[Jamie Lang]

That's unreal.

[Talisa]

Everything I manifest happens is crazy. That is wild, crazy stuff. But I always had a sense, like, I just knew and I knew he was going to get done in as well.

[Jamie Lang]

You knew it.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Daryna]

Hi, I'm Darina, co founder of OpenPhone. My dad is a business owner and growing up, I'll never forget his old ringtone. He made it as loud as it could go because he could not afford to miss a single customer call. That stuck with me. When we started OpenPhone. Our mission was to help businesses not just stay in touch with, but make every customer feel valued, no matter when they might call. OpenPhone gives your team business phone numbers to call and text customers all through an app on your phone or computer. Your calls, messages and contacts live in one workspace so your team can stay fully aligned and reply faster. And with our AI agent answering 24. 7, you'll really never miss a customer. Over 60,000 businesses use OpenPhone. Try it now and get 20% off your first six [e-mail] tech and we can port your existing numbers over for free. Open Phone. No missed calls, no missed customers.

[Elizabeth Day]

There will be animals. There's an awful lot of birds here.

[Talisa]

There's a lot going on.

[Elizabeth Day]

There will be chaos. He tugged and he ripped an ear off. He ripped the whole head off. And he just looked directly at us.

[Talisa]

And he was holding the ear in.

[Elizabeth Day]

His mouth and its Head was just hanging and obviously some fights for alpha status.

[Jamie Lang]

We've got the lake duck as well, which is the one that's got the largest penis relative to its body of any bird.

[Elizabeth Day]

This is Abby Clark, Zookeeper in Training. A podcast about animals, ambition and figuring it out as you go. What do sloths do?

[Talisa]

Not a lot. I've got.

[Elizabeth Day]

Got just six weeks to prove that I deserve a full time job at the UK's best zoo. No pressure. Gosh, she's so small for a giraffe. And it's all in the name of saving the world.

[Jamie Lang]

And it was the nuns that realized.

[Talisa]

That the species was actually declining in the wild.

[Elizabeth Day]

Listen to Abbey Clark's Zookeeper in Training wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jamie Lang]

What do you like in a relationship? Honestly, what do you think?

[Talisa]

The old me, bit of a demon, a little bit toxic. I think I. I was just very much the kind of person that I didn't like to be vulnerable, I didn't like to lose control and I, I wanted to be loved. I didn't do anything with malicious intent. But I probably play a lot of mind games because I wanted to reel someone in and have them in the way that I wanted them and wanted to be the one that was controlling where the emotions were going. So I was a little bit toxic. But it's something that I become aware of, become aware of a lot of things about myself. So in the past few years, the person I've become, I think I'd be an absolute. I think I'm a 10 out of 10 partner, to be honest. Got it all covered.

[Jamie Lang]

Because I. Because you said you were celibate for three years.

[Talisa]

I was.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay, let's go. All right, let's.

[Talisa]

Oh, that was, that must be a.

[Jamie Lang]

Wild ride with that.

[Talisa]

I was. No, that's in the book. I've spoken about that in the, in the, the prologue, in the end. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie.

[Jamie Lang]

You know, what was the reason to go celibate? Because you just felt like people think.

[Talisa]

There'S some kind of, like, vow I've made, like to God or like to myself. I just, I'm very picky. Finding someone that I actually like is very few and far between. And then if I do find someone that I like, I can feel physical attraction to them. I can enjoy their company, I can be very flirtatious, but I don't think about having sex with them until I start building quite a deep emotional connection.

[Jamie Lang]

Got it.

[Talisa]

And it takes me a long time and it has to Be a certain type of person that I really like to even want to get to that place.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

So it's just very few and far between with me. So it's less about like me going, no, I don't want to have sex with anyone. There's just no one I wanted to have sex with. I just didn't want to like there was, there was no point where I was like, yeah, this, this is right for me.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. And you feel like sex is like a sacred thing. Not sacred. Yeah. But it's.

[Talisa]

I think, I think my body is sacred. I think all women are sacred and they should be worshipped a lot more so than they are being treated in today's society.

[Jamie Lang]

I agree.

[Talisa]

I go good man.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. Yeah. I said I mighty woman. I said I don't agree.

[Talisa]

Bad idea. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Bad idea. Yeah. Because I do think we live in this time. Right. Just to get is like with onlyfans and people just hook up culture. It's not a. I. I don't think it's. And I. I'm a big. I don't watch porn.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And I.

[Talisa]

Good.

[Jamie Lang]

And I. I watched porn before.

[Talisa]

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

I did watch porn. Everyone. Yeah. But I. But I don't watch porn anymore because I definitely think that it desensitizes us. I think that, that, that quick.

[Talisa]

Did the research and became aware of.

[Jamie Lang]

That quick easy fix that you have the whole time.

[Talisa]

It separates you from the connection. 100 it should be about that sex is energy exchange and that energy is sacred. And you're also taking on other people's energy when. When you're sleeping around. You don't realize the things aside from STDs, the other things you're putting into your body. You know, you're messing with your energy field. The energy has got to be right when you're having that exchange. And it should be about the connection. So yeah, I'm just a bit of a prude.

[Jamie Lang]

You're not approved at all. I think it's the right way to be. Do you. Are you with anyone now?

[Talisa]

Not currently.

[Jamie Lang]

But you now want to find love?

[Talisa]

I don't believe in seeking. I think to seek is to be in a state of lack. I think.

[Jamie Lang]

Explain that to me.

[Talisa]

Well, if you're saying, oh, I need to find someone, I need to be with someone, I need this, I need a relationship or I can't be happy. You're devaluing yourself. Like what is it you're afraid of? Of being alone. And I feel like if you just let go, like the universe is Going to do what it wants with me anyway.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

I can't control it.

[Jamie Lang]

And you believe that, right? Yeah, so I believe that.

[Talisa]

But what is meant to be is meant to be. And I'm just like, cool, do what you want, mate.

[Jamie Lang]

That's freaking freeing to be that way. I know. I'm. I'm. I'm learning more and more to be like that. I definitely wasn't like that. I try to control everything.

[Talisa]

Yeah, same, same. So did I. But you, you can't. I had a. Course, I had a whole plan, but that's one thing you can't control. You can't control that.

[Jamie Lang]

So have you made peace with everything that's happened to you? Have you been able to forgive everyone?

[Talisa]

Yeah, but I'm actually. I've gone through this phase recently where at first when I came off, the trial was all love and light and literally, like, I would catch flies to release them out of my house. I wouldn't even squat a fly. It was like, that looked like Buddhism level.

[Jamie Lang]

Well, because you were just so.

[Talisa]

I was so in a moment of.

[Jamie Lang]

Like, I'm gonna try and help everything because goodness, goodness, goodness coming to me.

[Talisa]

Like, just complete love alike. Like, I was just like super sensitive, super soft, like at my maximum level of empathy for everything and everyone.

[Jamie Lang]

That's because you were such a vulnerable place.

[Talisa]

Right, I get. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And that you were just so grateful that you're out of the trial, you're past it.

[Talisa]

Yeah. And I knew pain, so I was so sensitive to other people's pain.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow.

[Talisa]

So. And then I actually began having dreams where I'd have a. Being, so to speak, say to me, like, sometimes before I slept, I'd ask, like, what am I missing? What do I need to do here? And I kept being told, you need to balance the light with the dark. There's. You're too much on the side of the light where there's room for weakness. You know, you're leaving yourself open. There is darkness in this world and you. Sometimes you need darkness to fight it. So you need to balance yourself out.

[Jamie Lang]

So how do you balance that?

[Talisa]

Well, I had to toughen up a bit as well. You can't be too loving light because you're going to have no boundaries and you know, you're going to leave yourself open and be vulnerable and there's to fight in the world and who's going to fight the bad guys? If you've got no.

[Jamie Lang]

If you've got no resilience there, if you've got no, like, grit, like holding on Exactly.

[Talisa]

And so now I've come to the point where I'm finally at the balance period. So I have the total savage that I used to be kind of just parked in this little box. You know, female boss just kind of stays there until she's 100 necessary, and then I pop her back out, and I'm like, I'm not gonna deal with this one. I'll let her come through. So I have a tamed beast.

[Jamie Lang]

How. How savage were you back in the day?

[Talisa]

I. I was just. I was very ballsy. I wouldn't take crap from anyone. I always spoke my mind, but I was very fair with it.

[Jamie Lang]

You just. Boom.

[Talisa]

Yeah, just straight to the point. And I have become a little bit of that sometimes.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. Was it a Persona? Was the female boss a Persona, or was it actually you? Was it a part of you?

[Talisa]

It was a part of me that was created as a defense mechanism because I was dealing with constantly so much crap. So it was a Persona, but it became a real part of me because when you're dealing with constant nonsense every day, you have to deal with it, and I had to become that person to deal with that. So then it became a very real.

[Jamie Lang]

Part of me because there was. There's the. There's the iconic moment on the X Factor where you would come up and you would hold your. Let's freaking go, man. That's like my childhood dreams coming true. Are you kidding me? Brilliant, man. Because it. Because it. Like that whole X Factor was just. That's when it was. I mean, 40 million viewers a week or whatever. Crazy numbers.

[Talisa]

It was crazy.

[Jamie Lang]

You looked after little mix.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you still speak to the girls?

[Talisa]

Yeah, I do. I do speak to them here and there. Funny enough, people are like, oh, you know, did you take care of them afterwards? I was like, well, I went through this afterwards. So they were then the ones taking care of me. So I'd be getting, you know, flowers off them. They're always checking in. They've been so good to me. So good to me after.

[Jamie Lang]

Did Simon Cowell ever reach out?

[Talisa]

Yeah, he did. He brought me back on the show after, so not as a permanent judge, but as a guest.

[Jamie Lang]

I imagine there are people listening right now, right?

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And perhaps they're in their darkest moment.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

They're probably down and out. They've lost their job. They lost their relationship. Maybe they lost their kids. Maybe they don't know what to do. Maybe you're their inspiration, and they're just like, do you know what? I'm out. Yeah, I'M checking out right now. I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, like, where you are. What would you say to them?

[Talisa]

Well, number one, you just need to hold the fuck on. Hang on in there. I always set myself time frames when I'm at, like, my worst points and I just reach that peak of like, can't do this anymore. I go, okay, that's how it feels. Now you've got this, this and this happening. Give yourself to this date and just see how you feel then. Rather than, you know, making assumptions about your life and just kind of, I just go with it until that point. And it always changes by the time it gets to that point.

[Jamie Lang]

Really?

[Talisa]

Always. Yeah. I set myself these time goals and two of the reasons that I eventually was like, I want to get this book out now. All three, one, because I was really passionate about it and I worked super hard in it. And for me, it was a great little piece of art. I also felt like through reading it is the only way you could ever truly know me. Like, anyone that reads that, you're going to know me as a person now. And the last one was the inspiration. Like when you get through it at the end, it's. And this is me getting through it. Remember, I've had to re edit this a thousand times. Imagine me having to read over and over and over my own story. And I always start off going, oh, not again. And every single time I've read my own book over like 50 times. And by the time I get to the end, I'm like, feel like there's just so much hope in the world. There's so much hope and that feeling of hope and inspiration and miracles. Because I mentioned a lot about, you know, my spiritualism in there. And I just hope that it can do that. I just hope that everyone that reads it at the end comes out with this feeling of hope and inspiration for whatever they're going through. Like, you know, what if she can get through that and the miracles that have gone on in that situation, I can get through this, man, 100%.

[Jamie Lang]

It must be incredibly cathartic, right, to see how far you've come and got through it all and been there and like, you're here now, standing, going, like, right, I'm through it. I'm accepting crazy.

[Talisa]

Like, it's a crazy sensation. And like that every time I'd finished the read, like when I finished the last read and I just sat in my living room and I looked around and I was like, wow, like, how was I there? And now I'm here, man.

[Jamie Lang]

It's amazing. One of the reasons. Reasons you're here, right?

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Firstly, because we're buddies. I like to think so.

[Talisa]

Better replace my DM mate.

[Jamie Lang]

I know. Man down straight. But the other probably more important reason is that you've written your book Judgment.

[Talisa]

Yes.

[Jamie Lang]

We've got it here in front of us and reading it. But your. Your life has been very tough.

[Talisa]

Yeah. It's been interesting.

[Jamie Lang]

It's a bean. I mean, it's insanely, like, almost like takes your breath away.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

At certain places. And it's raw.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And it's honest and it's beautifully written.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And it's. It's heavy.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Because in the second paragraph, as soon as you start reading it, you talk about taking or trying to take your own life.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And you're almost put into the moment of what's going on.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Can you. Can you explain to me, like, firstly, why you wanted to start with that, but also what that moment was like and how old you and where you were?

[Talisa]

So it was. Obviously, it's 2013, so it's about the year of the trial, and I wanted initially, when I've written that, I've done it in the timeline of events in 2013. But when I pieced together the book as more of a work of art, what I want to do is instantly pull people in. So I thought, let's start with that moment. Because, you know, if you open a book, you grab someone in the first chapter. So if it starts with, you know, I want to kill myself, then you're going to want to find out why. So that was. I started with that for art purposes, man. I'm just like, yeah, well, to be fair, that was more of a. I call it like a lesser attempt. So I speak about two attempts in the book. And the first was just, I give up. I didn't even know what these pills were. And like I say in the book, I'm like, I don't know if they'd kill me, but I'm going to do it anyway. And they didn't. But then it was actually the second time. That was when it was all over. That was the serious time where I knew exactly what I was doing and how I was going to do it. So when I woke up in the hospital, I was like, why the hell am I here?

[Jamie Lang]

You know how, like that, like. Like from, like a fan point of view, but also, like, from someone who's spoken to you, that is, yeah. Like, distressing and upsetting and just every Part of my, like, body wants to say to you, like, why? Yeah, like, don't do that.

[Talisa]

Like, of course. Well, yeah, obviously now my head's in that space. But at the time, I don't know, it's weird because everyone would hear that and go, oh, my God. Like, that's so intense. That's so extreme. It was just like I was in this dark place. I was so super unhappy. I couldn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. And I thought, even if I push to get there, it's going to take me so long. I just don't want to spend any more time being here and being miserable.

[Jamie Lang]

And when you, when you wake up in the hospital.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And you realize that you're still alive, what feeling do you have?

[Talisa]

Then I was fuming. I turned around to my friend and said, why the am I still here? But, you know, that passed. It's all part of the journey. If I was going to go, I, I would have gone. So I obviously wasn't meant to go. So that for me was the universe's way of going, well, you ain't going anywhere. And I thought to myself, all right, I get the message. I'm meant to be here. I'll stick around. Whatever you got in store for me.

[Jamie Lang]

Man, that's like wild.

[Talisa]

Yeah. But I haven't ever tried to do anything like that again. Off the back of trying so hard and failing, I was like, okay, that's my sign. I'll take it. All right? I'll stick it out.

[Jamie Lang]

Why do you think these people wanted to set you up? Why do they go to all these lengths, spending all this money, going through all this time, putting you on first class flights, meeting you in hotels, meeting you everywhere to try and get you, try and get a headline, ultimately ruin your life and try and send you to prison?

[Talisa]

Yeah, well, it's something that I deliberate, you know, a lot in the book and I might hint at things, but, you know, a long story short is I think my, my short time in the larger, more commercial industry, I think I ruffled a few feathers. I think I wouldn't play the game. And I think to some people, I ended up as a little bit of a, of a threat and they wanted to take me out because I had, they'd maybe given too much power to the wrong person. I just want to play the game.

[Jamie Lang]

It's an extreme way to go. Did you sue?

[Talisa]

I did.

[Jamie Lang]

I mean, suing, winning, whatever that is, it doesn't even like. It doesn't even the damage that it does. Mentally, physically, to the ripple effect, the butterfly effect of friends and family to everyone around you.

[Talisa]

Yeah, of course.

[Jamie Lang]

Man. I'm so sorry.

[Talisa]

It's okay, honestly. I'll tell you honestly, Jay, I wouldn't take back a second of any of it, really. Yeah. Like that year before the sting happened, you know, we were talking about getting to that place.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

You've achieved everything. Sure. You can't fill the void. That is where I was at. I'd got to the biggest position I'd ever wanted to be. I was living the dream. I was an expats judge. I had everything. I was in my massive mansion, mills in the bank. And I was like, I'm gone.

[Jamie Lang]

Clear.

[Talisa]

I'm flying. And I was so, so depressed and empty inside. The most miserable I had ever been. And my whole life, as I told you, I'd pray, success, give me success. I want to be successful. And for the first time ever, I stopped praying for success. And that year, I prayed for. My words were, I pray for enlightenment. I want to see things clearly. I want to see the world for what it is. I want to feel things clearly. I wanted to be fulfilled internally. And then the sting happened, and I'd literally said, give me my year of enlightenment. And through that, I learned on a very long journey off the back of it. But through that, I learned in a piece.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow.

[Talisa]

And I don't think I ever would have without the start of that journey and the journey it took me on. I used to think that the purpose was success, the maximum success, and, you know, the outside things and the surface things, the material things. Now I understand that the purpose is becoming my higher self, ascending to the highest version of myself, vibrating on the highest energy, seeing the most clearly I possibly can, being in touch with myself, with others, it's way, way deeper. My purpose now is. Is spiritual ascension for myself. That. That's the purpose. And inner peace and happiness. That's the mission. And I would never have really got to that place without that experience and every other experience in my life.

[Jamie Lang]

It's quite an accepting thing from you to be like, this has to have.

[Talisa]

That has to happen to have happened. And I know it could not. I could not have got to this place any other way.

[Jamie Lang]

So you religious?

[Talisa]

I'm. So I'm on this, like, thin line between religion and spiritualism. So I believe in some aspects of religion. I'm an omniscient. I believe in some aspects of all different religions. Um, but I feel like too much of religion has been written by a man and man that may twist words and things for their own ends to divide and conquer. I don't believe if there was this higher power, he would decide to send individuals to one place and then leave the rest of the world in despair. I think it would make sense that there would be, you know, someone sent down to everywhere. What's happening is the men in charge of these stories are just changing the stories to make it separate. I think we're all God's children, but I don't believe in God in the sense of how he's necessarily described in the Bible. Yeah, I think it is a. It's a consciousness in the universe that we're all a part of.

[Jamie Lang]

But when. When our loved ones leave us, where do you think they go?

[Talisa]

I think they go to. I believe in the reincarnation process. I'm very much into. I say to describe my spiritual beliefs, you'd have to read the Emerald tablets of Thoth, the Atlantean, and.

[Jamie Lang]

Sorry, sorry, I've just finished holes. Do you remember that book?

[Talisa]

You should have just finished Judgment.

[Jamie Lang]

No, sorry, I started again. I just finished Judgment. What is that again?

[Talisa]

It's basically. I mean, Thoth never claimed to be a God, but the people deemed him to be a God.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay.

[Talisa]

Like the God of wisdom and knowledge. And these emerald tablets were found. It was actually copies, not the actual emerald tablets themselves. And it speaks about basically pretty much the meaning of life, the reincarnation cycle, the different ascension levels that we go through. I feel like Earth is the school of learning. And we send ourselves down here and we sign these soul contracts before we come down. We agree to even, you know, me and you are going to have this podcast at some point, and your mom's going to be your mom. You guys will be dad. Your partner is going to be a partner. And we live out our life with all these experiences that we kind of pre choose to help us ascend. And each lifetime with someone different, completely different situations. And through continuously repeating that process, every time we kind of go back up, we remember who we are and we have. And go, oh, my God. We have that information. And then you go in again, oh, my God, I've just lived that life. And so by the end of it, you can imagine the kind of wise and ascended being you would be. And when you're talking about getting to heaven, for me, it's about ascension, maybe higher realms. And to do that, you have to repeat through the reincarnation process. If I was to bet my life on it, like someone said, press a button now you have to pick something. That is what I choose. But I am fully aware that the man who thinks he knows it all is the stupidest man in the world. So I also could be completely wrong, and I'm completely aware of that as well. There could be nothing.

[Jamie Lang]

Could be nothing.

[Talisa]

But if I had to lean on something, what my heart and my logic and research tells me, that would be it.

[Jamie Lang]

The reason I ask is because. Rich, I heard your dad, Steve, passed away a couple weeks ago.

[Talisa]

He did?

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. I'm really sorry.

[Talisa]

It's been a crap month, man. Yeah, it is. What is part of the life process.

[Jamie Lang]

I know.

[Talisa]

Yeah. And I'll see him again in the next one. And so I think it makes it easier for me to handle death in some situations because of my beliefs. Also, I think my spiritualism has a big effect on all areas of my life.

[Jamie Lang]

Were you close to your dad?

[Talisa]

So we became friends again after a period of not speaking for a while. And then now in my older years, we became close again, which was nice that we got to have that makeup period and get that bond back before you passed away. But it leaves you with a lot of regret because we had a bit of a troubled relationship at time.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

You think, oh, years wasted, but you made it up. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And that's beautiful.

[Talisa]

Exactly.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

Yeah. It's.

[Jamie Lang]

I had. Yeah. I. It's funny. We get to this age now, we suddenly start to realize that, like, maybe you realize way before me, but I'm definitely realizing now, and I've said this before, like, life is temporary.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And I. And I've only started to look around and realize that it is. And it's really precious and fleeting. And sometimes I've had. I. I think sometimes we hold grudges or resentment, or we hold anger towards people, and actually that only sort of hurts us, and there's no point doing that. We need to sort of get rid of that, and that's.

[Talisa]

And let it go.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. But how do people do that? If you have resentment towards someone, maybe it's a parent, a loved one, a sibling. I don't know what it is. How do you let that go?

[Talisa]

I feel like you can't really let it go until you find peace within here. If you're holding so much resentment towards someone, you're basically saying, I'm reliant on your actions for my happiness. I'm relying on your actions and for you to be good to me, to validate me. So you need to start distinguishing the way you view yourself and the way others view you is not personal. It's not about you. That's about them. So you need to work on how you feel about you.

[Jamie Lang]

Great.

[Talisa]

And until you really find that inner peace and self worth and self value and self love internally, only then can you look at what other people do and go, well, it, it doesn't, I know who I am.

[Jamie Lang]

What makes me so angry is that to get a headline, people are almost willing to let someone die in order to happen.

[Talisa]

Of course. Especially about them. I mean, that is, it's crazy, isn't it?

[Jamie Lang]

It's more than crazy. It's like it makes me so like, like, like, like angry inside that people do that, that, that they can see people in the public eye and, and use them as fodder to try and sell.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Newspapers.

[Talisa]

Yeah. And I go into it a lot in the book about all the other crazy stuff that was happening. It was more than just the sting. It was 100, the 24 hour surveillance, another repeated attempted sting out in Dubai. I was at the point where I was literally fearing for my life. And it was quite literally the craziest year I have ever experienced. And then at the same time, I was going through this extremely, like, I met someone and ended up falling in love that year. And I had this extremely chaotic love life happening. And when I first started writing the book, I was like, well, I'm just gonna kind of document everything.

[Jamie Lang]

And you did, you started documenting everything?

[Talisa]

Yeah. And, and I started doing that. And then I, I met, I call him Jacob in the book. And then I met Jacob and then I started writing about that because I was just writing about my everyday life.

[Jamie Lang]

Like journaling in a way.

[Talisa]

Yeah, like journaling. But then I would go into story tangents where I'm telling it like a story, like a novel, but a first person narrative.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow.

[Talisa]

And then I, I, I kind of had this crazy, chaotic drama slash love story going on when I'm reading back it. And I was like, well, I'm going to write in novel form. So I stuck to the first person narrative and the storytelling aspect. So when you think, oh, oh, I brought out an autobiography about 2013, it's not an autobiography in that sense. It's actually if you didn't know who Talisa was and I gave you this book and you read it, you just think it was a novel. 100 unless someone told you it was true.

[Jamie Lang]

100 and that is exactly what it is. And, and, and that's why people listening right now, you need to go and get this book. Because it is not only Gonna delve in so much more to everything else. But it does. It reads like a novel, and it's honest and it's fun and it's exciting and it's dangerous and it's.

[Talisa]

It's actually like. It's. It's. There's, like, parts where it feels like a bit of a thriller, then it feels.

[Jamie Lang]

Helen has written down. It's also really sexy.

[Talisa]

Did you get to read it?

[Jamie Lang]

Helen is, like, obsessed. Helen is.

[Talisa]

Honestly. You loved it. Yay. That's what we like.

[Jamie Lang]

Honestly, I promise you, Helen is, like, like obsessed.

[Talisa]

Yeah. No, I bloody know it's good. I spent 10 years writing it.

[Jamie Lang]

But, man, isn't that. Isn't that amazing that, like, documenting and journaling and keeping all of these things and then getting it together and having this moment to write it?

[Talisa]

100% well. I wrote it all on. I wrote it all during 2013. And then I continued writing. So this is where I have a part two. I continued writing for the next two years, like, the aftermath. And then I was left with three novels worth of material. So I whittled it down and then split into two. And then I spent the last 10 years going back and forth editing it again. And then every two years, I always feel like I kind of evolve as a person. And then I'd go back and kind of adapt things, putting in a part of who I am now.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Talisa]

And then I was terrified to release it for the past 10 years because I knew there's so much juice in there. There's so much goss. It's just headline after headline central after headline. And that feeling for me was like, oh, my God, I don't know. I do not. Like, I can't do it. I can't cope with all the headlines because I'm giving everything in there. It's literally like. And I'm not just everything, but it's done in a way that it's just all the best bits. So it's just juice, juice, juice, juice, juice. All the best moments. Whether it's the crazy moments, the thrilling moments, the terrifying moments, the sexy moments back to back. It's just like, how mad would it.

[Jamie Lang]

Be if, out of all of this, this became a movie and you starred in the movie?

[Talisa]

So. Because that is my. My thing, I think it could, you know, because it's such a craz story when I'm telling you it is mental. But that would be the dream.

[Jamie Lang]

Why. Why do you want to release it now? Why is this moment. Is it now? You're like, this is the time.

[Talisa]

Because now I'm over it.

[Jamie Lang]

Really?

[Talisa]

Yeah. And now I'm, you know, like, when I went in the jungle, I said I was doing it because I wanted to overcome this fear. And I've had this anxiety for so long, and it did the trick. So it's like, I don't mind dealing with press.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. You sure?

[Talisa]

You know, being in the public. And I don't mind those headlines coming out because they were over 10 years ago. Like, it's done. Write it.

[Jamie Lang]

He said, honestly, Like, I just want to say, like, a big thank you. I want people to go and get this book. So when can they get it?

[Talisa]

Tomorrow. It's out tomorrow.

[Jamie Lang]

Let's go.

[Talisa]

And the audiobook's also available. I narrated. That was an experience. Narrating the whole book as well. But, yeah, it's super juicy. It's super exciting. Like, I'm not making this up. I work my ass off on this book for 10 years. It's bloody good.

[Jamie Lang]

We like to end the conversation with eight questions. Are you ready for quick fire?

[Talisa]

Okay, go for it.

[Jamie Lang]

What's the saying? A phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up.

[Talisa]

You gotta go through it to grow through it.

[Jamie Lang]

Let's freaking go. Best compliment anyone's ever given you.

[Talisa]

Oh. Oh, my God. But it's kind of toxic.

[Jamie Lang]

Go for it.

[Talisa]

Oh, no. One of my ex boyfriends said that I was a huge human cancer that rots the brain. But it was only because he was, like, a total F boy and I basically won. I was the kryptonite. So the fact that he said that about me, I was like, yes, I got him.

[Jamie Lang]

What scares you most about yourself?

[Talisa]

My dark side. I think if I was in a zombie apocalypse, I would just kill everyone and take over the world.

[Jamie Lang]

You. You would get through it. Yeah. You get through it. When was the last time you cried?

[Talisa]

Yesterday.

[Jamie Lang]

Why?

[Talisa]

Because of my dog.

[Jamie Lang]

That's the hardest.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

What's something you can't let go of?

[Talisa]

Something I can't let go of.

[Jamie Lang]

Maybe nothing cheating.

[Talisa]

Yeah. You're out of here.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. You get out of here. What's your guilty pleasure?

[Talisa]

I don't think it is a guilty pleasure. But, like, all, like, reality tv. Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

My wife's essentially freaking.

[Talisa]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm on, like, the hundred seasons of Atlanta. Real dogs, wives, whatever. Like, I honestly is, like. It's honestly like, I don't know what we're watching. Like, now. They're like, I don't know, buying up. I don't know what it is.

[Talisa]

I don't feel guilty about it, though.

[Jamie Lang]

No.

[Talisa]

I mean, I have a wheat intolerance. And I still eat pizza. Yeah. For myself. But that's like. I'm not really guilty about anything I do. That makes me happy. That's my business.

[Jamie Lang]

I love that. What turns you off?

[Talisa]

What turns me off? In a human.

[Jamie Lang]

Anything.

[Talisa]

Turns me off. Ignorance. Ignorance and oversized egos.

[Jamie Lang]

What turns you on?

[Talisa]

Love and light and empathy.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. What do you like most about yourself?

[Talisa]

My ability to care for and advise others.

[Jamie Lang]

That's great. And bonus, favorite swear word.

[Talisa]

Wankstain.

[Jamie Lang]

Jeez, you're the best man. I really appreciate. Go and get this book, everybody. You're the best. Thank you so much.

[Elizabeth Day]

I'm glad I had my seatbelt on.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay, good. Because it was bumpy.

[Elizabeth Day]

It was a wild ride.

[Jamie Lang]

There you go.

[Elizabeth Day]

What a life.

[Jamie Lang]

What a life. What a woman. What a woman. Lots of things to understand and take from that. I mean, yeah, it's completely wild that. So the man who set the whole thing up is now in prison because he lied and was just deceitful.

[Elizabeth Day]

But also that thing she said about when she was in court, knowing good will prevail.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah. That's strength to have that.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah. That is mad. And she wrote that down.

[Talisa]

Wow.

[Jamie Lang]

We really hope you enjoyed the episode, as always. Get in touch with us at greatcompany podcast on Instagram or greatcompanyampodproductions.co.uk. everything is in the show description, as always. And remember, if you haven't already subscribed to the show and let us know what you think of it, what guests you want us to have on next because we, as a community, want to know what you guys think. Okay. Jimmy, we're gonna be back next week, aren't we?

[Elizabeth Day]

We will be back next week.

[Jamie Lang]

Are you ready for it?

[Elizabeth Day]

I am really excited, actually. Next week's another biggie.

[Jamie Lang]

It's huge.

[Elizabeth Day]

It's another biggie.

[Jamie Lang]

It's another exclusive.

[Elizabeth Day]

Yeah, it actually is.

[Jamie Lang]

We have another exclusive next week, guys.

[Elizabeth Day]

Hold on to your hats all week.

[Jamie Lang]

Strap them on, strap them on.

[Elizabeth Day]

Put your seatbelt on, hat on, everything. Goggles as well.

[Jamie Lang]

We'll see you next week for another episode of Great Company.

[F]

You know that thing called AI Supposed to make the workplace super efficient? Well, there's something better. DI Delicious Intelligence. It's tech that helps make work efficient and Yummy. Leading the DI revolution. EasyCater. A workplace food platform that connects you to tons of favorite restaurants with tools to save time and stay on budget. Need tacos for 20, falafel for 40. A variety of vegan breakfast sandwiches. Now that's a tasty prompt. Join the DI Revolution. Order [e-mail] now you can fly anywhere.

[Unknown]

In the world and pay discount discount prices on your airline tickets. Book a flight today to London, Paris, Madrid or anywhere else you want to.

[Talisa]

Go and pay a lot less guaranteed.

[Unknown]

Call the International Travel Department right now at low cost airlines, 8002-1551-4180-0215-5141. That's 800-215-5141.

[F]

Hello, I'm Katherine Ryan and.

[Talisa]

This is Write Me Dirty the podcast, where two comedians write steamy, ridiculous erotica about each other. I give them a bizarre prompt, think apocalypse must include a zombie, and they read their spicy stories aloud while I judge them on sexiness, funniness, and sheer chaos. It's hilarious, awkward, and occasionally kind of hot. Write Me Dirty Thursdays just got thirstier. Write Me Dirty.

[Jamie Lang]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com.

[Unknown]

Hey, do you want to hear the next big new tech podcast hit before anyone else? Check out the daily tech news show Experiment Week. We're swapping out our normal shows to try out some new ideas. We've done this before and launched big hits like behind the Data, the Tech John, and more. This year we have exclusive Android faithful reactions to the Pixel 9 event. It's all on the DTNS feed starting August 11th. Don't miss it.

[Jamie Lang]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast. Com.