JAMIE & NICK LAING: DAD TOLD ME THIS ONE THING THAT CHANGED MY VIEW ON FATHERHOOD

Summary

Podcast Summary: Great Company with Jamie Laing Episode: JAMIE & NICK LAING: DAD TOLD ME THIS ONE THING THAT CHANGED MY VIEW ON FATHERHOOD
Release Date: June 17, 2025

In this heartfelt and personal episode of Great Company with Jamie Laing, host Jamie Lang dives deep into the intimate dynamics of fatherhood with his son, Nick Lang. Breaking away from the show's usual format of featuring external guests, Nick brings his father onboard to share insights, experiences, and the transformative advice that reshaped his perspective on becoming a dad.

---

1. Introduction to a Personal Episode

[02:15]
Nick Lang sets the tone for the episode by expressing his excitement about impending fatherhood and his desire to discuss his feelings and thoughts openly for the first time on the podcast. He introduces his father, marking the inaugural father-son conversation on the show.

2. Nick’s Pre-Fatherhood Anxieties

[06:05] – [10:17]
Nick delves into his apprehensions about becoming a father, highlighting his struggle with the loss of control and the immense responsibility that comes with raising a child.

• “I was really scared about the responsibility with everything... I really panicked about that.” [07:16]

He reflects on his innate control-freak tendencies and how the idea of a child brings uncertainties that he couldn't previously anticipate. The conversation evolves as Nick shares a pivotal moment when he sought advice from his father, leading to a significant shift in his outlook.

3. Transformative Advice from His Father

[08:54] – [09:43]
Nick recounts a crucial conversation with his father that altered his mindset:

• “If I had never had kids, you and I wouldn’t be having this conversation.” [09:12]

This advice emphasized the value of embracing fatherhood and the unique bond it fosters, encouraging Nick to move past his fears and embrace the journey ahead with a more positive and accepting attitude.

4. Parenting Philosophy and Childhood Reflections

[16:17] – [19:30]
The dialogue shifts to discussing parenting styles, where both Nick and his father reflect on their own upbringings and the lessons learned.
Nick shares:

• “I think with worrying about exams or anxiety... I just accept it, that kind of makes it a bit more free.” [10:14]

His father adds insights on consistent and liberal parenting, stressing the importance of setting boundaries while allowing children the freedom to explore and make their own decisions:

• “Parents are making decisions for their children. When children should be making the decisions.” [30:49]

5. Relationship Dynamics and Emotional Growth

[23:25] – [34:34]
The conversation becomes more personal as Nick and his father explore their past relationship, acknowledging periods of absence and emotional distance.
Nick reflects on his younger years:

• “I was in my early 20s... I was just being selfish.” [33:32]

His father responds with humility and understanding, emphasizing the importance of not speaking ill of others and maintaining respect despite personal shortcomings:

• “He has never, ever spoken badly about anyone...” [35:00]

This segment underscores the healing and strengthening of their bond through open communication and mutual understanding.

6. Advice for Future Parenting

[34:56] – [47:58]
Nick and his father exchange valuable advice on approaching parenthood. They discuss the balance between supporting the mother and ensuring the child’s well-being without feeling sidelined.
Nick advises:

• “I just want to be a good dad.” [10:24]

His father echoes the sentiment of prioritizing the child and the mother, emphasizing support and presence:

• “Be there when you can.” [47:08]

They also touch upon the evolution of their relationship, the importance of family unity, and the excitement of welcoming a new life into the family.

7. Emotional Moments and Future Outlook

[47:42] – [48:35]
The episode culminates in an emotionally charged exchange where Nick expresses deep gratitude and love for his father, acknowledging past mistakes and looking forward to building a stronger relationship as they embark on this new chapter together.

• “You are the greatest person. All of us as kids love you so much beyond.” [47:56]

His father responds with humility, reinforcing the strength and beauty of their renewed bond.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Nick Lang: “I was really scared about the responsibility with everything... I really panicked about that.” [07:16]

• Nick Lang: “If I had never had kids, you and I wouldn’t be having this conversation.” [09:12]

• Nick Lang: “I just want to be a good dad.” [10:24]

• Nick Lang’s Dad: “If I had never had kids, you and I wouldn’t be having this conversation.” [09:12]

• Jamie Lang: “Can you imagine? This is. It's so true.” [25:48]

• Nick Lang: “You are the greatest person. All of us as kids love you so much beyond.” [47:56]

Key Takeaways:

• Embracing Vulnerability: Nick's openness about his fears and anxieties provides a genuine look into the emotional journey of impending fatherhood.

• Intergenerational Wisdom: The father-son dialogue showcases the profound impact of parental advice and the importance of understanding and evolving relationships.

• Parenting Balance: Striking a balance between guidance and freedom is essential for healthy child development, as emphasized by both Nick and his father.

• Healing and Growth: Addressing past relationship strains leads to healing and reinforces the strength of familial bonds, especially when preparing to welcome a new generation.

This episode serves as an inspiring exploration of fatherhood, highlighting the complexities, fears, and ultimate rewards that come with becoming a parent. It underscores the significance of familial support, open communication, and the willingness to grow together through life's pivotal moments.

Transcript

[Jamie Lang]

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[Nick Lang]

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[Nick Lang]

Hey guys, welcome back to Great Company. This episode is a little bit of a personal one, so you probably know that I'm going to be a dad, which is really exciting. And I've never really spoken about how I feel, what I'm thinking about in sort of a solo interview. So today we're going to be doing that. But we also have someone else who's going to be joining us, which is my dad. My dad has never done a podcast with me. He's never spoken out on anything ever really. And I've asked him to come on to give me advice, talk about our relationship. So we really hope you enjoy this personal episode. Remember to subscribe. Subscribe and get ready for this. Enjoy this episode of Great Comfy with me and my dad.

[Jemima]

Hello.

[Nick Lang]

Hello. Well, this is a special episode, isn't it?

[Jemima]

You took the words right out my mouth. There's some news.

[Nick Lang]

There's been some news there's been some news.

[Jemima]

We've all heard about it. Jamie is going to be a dad.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah. It's very, very exciting and I suppose. So we thought what we would do today is instead of having our usual guest on, we would. I would be the guest.

[Jemima]

Yeah. We've interrupted the schedule. Cause it's quite a big deal.

[Nick Lang]

You suggested to me that it would be a good episode to do. Because actually, as much as Great Company is about the amazing guests we have on, it's also about, I suppose, my life. And it's about being honest and open.

[Jemima]

Through stories that we have. And the story of you becoming a dad is one that we've spoken about at Christmas and we spoke. I feel like we maybe might have touched on it in Iran. Did we touch on it?

[Nick Lang]

I've been touching it for the last, like.

[Jemima]

And every single person who comes on this show who is a parent, you.

[Nick Lang]

Ask, what's it like to become a dad? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jemima]

So people are invested.

[Nick Lang]

We're doing this today for some reason, I find. I always find these ones a bit strange when it's sort of turned on me. I don't know why. I'm much more comfortable sitting the other way around and just chatting that way.

[Jemima]

Yeah, that's fair. And we've got armchairs. And I just said to Jamie just before. I didn't realize I was gonna be recorded from the waist down. So I'm wearing shorts. And I didn't think that would be great on camera.

[Nick Lang]

You look so great.

[Jemima]

I'm Jemima. I'm the producer of the show.

[Nick Lang]

You sit behind the camera.

[Jemima]

I sit behind the camera. So, Jamie, I thought I'd just kick off with asking just a few things about whether, you know, how well you know what's coming for you.

[Nick Lang]

Okay, give us.

[Jemima]

How many times a day does the average newborn baby eat?

[Nick Lang]

Like milk?

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

Breast milk.

[Jemima]

That's what they'll be eating. Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

Okay. Not like a waffle.

[Jemima]

No.

[Nick Lang]

Okay.

[Jemima]

They don't.

[Nick Lang]

You've asked me that question. So it feels like it's gonna be a lot more than I think.

[Jemima]

Well, what do you Vision. What do you first think?

[Nick Lang]

Well, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Maybe tea in between. So I'm gonna. I'll go six.

[Jemima]

That's how many times you're feeding a baby. So it's about eight times a day, every two to three hours.

[Jamie Lang]

Wow.

[Jemima]

What's the average amount of nappies a baby uses in the first year?

[Nick Lang]

First year? I mean, I had a dirty nappy. Apparently my nappy was just horrendous. All the time. So if it's anything like me, two a day. So 700.

[Jemima]

2,500. No, you gotta change that nappy more than twice a day.

[Nick Lang]

I gotta change my business and start selling nappies. Are you joking? That is mad.

[Jemima]

When should you start giving a baby real food? So. So off milk one five to six months.

[Nick Lang]

Okay, okay. This has started really well.

[Jemima]

Do not listen.

[Nick Lang]

This is starting really well.

[Jemima]

How many days does it take for a baby to recognise their dad's voice?

[Nick Lang]

Well, I have a theory that I talk to the baby in Soph's tummy. So I feel like when the baby comes out, it recognizes the voice.

[Jemima]

Fourteen days.

[Nick Lang]

Oh, what? So what's the point? Talking to me.

[Jemima]

So it's got two weeks of bliss.

[Nick Lang]

Gonna waste my time not talking to the tummy anymore? Two weeks of bliss before it's then polluted with me?

[Jemima]

Yeah. For the rest of its life. Okay, what is most common food item that pregnant women crave?

[Nick Lang]

Gherkins.

[Jemima]

Yes.

[Nick Lang]

Is it Sophie's craving gherkins?

[Jemima]

Yeah. Pickles.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, Pickles. Yeah. She's absolutely obsessed with it.

[Jemima]

Sounds like you kind of know some things and some not. Which is about right.

[Nick Lang]

Well, sort of. My theory with all of this is that we never used to have books or social media or Internet or anything at all. And so we just kind of learn as you go. Right. I think that feels like what's going to happen. But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

[Jemima]

So your plan is no books?

[Nick Lang]

My plan consume nothing. Well, I think I'll consume a little bit. My plan in life has always been no business plan is the best business plan. So just going into it without really thinking about things. So I feel like, I don't know, that could be a good idea. I don't know. I don't. It's a wild west for me. It is a wild west. I'm nervous about the whole thing. I'm scared about the whole thing. I'm excited about the whole thing.

[Jemima]

Let's get into that because at. In December we did an episode and you spoke about being a dad, being something that kind of has made you feel quite nervous. And you spoke about how it was like the lack of control. How do you feel about that now and what changed since December?

[Nick Lang]

Well, I think for. I think that that's the big thing about. I think with maybe typically with more men. Right. Is that. And this is my experience is that it was really nerve wracking going into it because. Or thinking about it. Because there is no Control. And being a control freak, which I am I to control everything, my emotions, the things around me, things that are going on. I feel like I need to be in control of it. So, yeah, it was really, really scary. And that was really scary to think about all those things, not being able to control. But also the biggest thing that I was scared about was the responsibility with everything. Typically in life, you can drop it if you want to. Going to the gym, you don't have to do it. A business, worst comes to worse, you can liquidate the business, you can let the business fold. Friendships, relationships, you can kind of move away from them, anything. But with a child, typically, you sort of have. That's the responsibility there for life. And I really, really panicked about that. And I just couldn't get my head around it. I was just like, are you kidding me? I just don't. That was the one thing I was like. All of my friends, all of the people I knew were just looked so tired and so worn down, and they couldn't go to the gym and they couldn't do this and they couldn't do that, and that was really scary. And then I spoke to my dad, and I phoned up my dad to ask him for advice. And I said, so. I said, dad, so what do you. What do you think about kids? Do you think it's a good thing? And he said, well, I've got six of them, so.

[Jemima]

And you're one of them, and I'm one of them.

[Nick Lang]

But he said the best thing. And this changed it all for me. He said, well, if I had never had kids, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation. And I went, oh, my God, that's so right. And I've always been someone in life who has always just done it. Climb to the top of the tree, I'll do it. Go running with the bulls and Pamplona, I'll just go and do it. Starting business, I'll just do it. I've always just done things and. And do I want to go through life and thinking, God, maybe I should have done that? Like, what if? What if? What if? And if I hadn't have done that, then I would never know what a conversation is like to hopefully have with my son or daughter, whoever it is, like my dad did with me. So that was the turning point for me. And so since then.

[Jemima]

When was that?

[Nick Lang]

Beginning of this year.

[Jemima]

Okay.

[Nick Lang]

And so since then, I've sort of succumbed to it. And it's. With all these things, it's like, with. It's like with worrying about exams or anxiety or everything, when you take away the fear from it and you just accept it, that kind of makes it a bit more free, I suppose. So I'm now in a space where actually I'm nervous and scared, but I'm also excited, where I used to just fear it. Does that make sense?

[Jemima]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Nick Lang]

Okay, well, there you go.

[Jemima]

So you're feeling anxious about it.

[Nick Lang]

I'm shitting myself still. I'm like, I'm absolutely about the same things.

[Jemima]

Or is it. Has it changed?

[Nick Lang]

I just want a healthy, happy baby, and everything else is a positive. That's all I care about right now. And I don't know, that's the thing which I think most people get scared about. Right. Is that you just want a healthy, happy baby. That's all you want. And if they're healthy and happy, okay, that's fine. That's all I care about. So it's a really beautiful, amazing time. But do I feel prepared to be a dad? No. Like, I can't even drive, like, but, you know, I need a license for that. Don't need a license to have a kid.

[Jemima]

It's wild.

[Nick Lang]

It's wild.

[Jemima]

Yeah. It sounds like the fear has moved from the fear of control to now it's a bit more focused of like, okay, this is happening, and I want a healthy, happy baby.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

How are you managing that anxiety?

[Nick Lang]

Well, I think. I think life and God and whoever. Whoever created all of this or whatever reason this was created, I really, truly believe the reason why we have nine months from conception to giving birth is so people can get their heads around the fact that they're actually going to have a baby.

[Jemima]

Trust the process.

[Nick Lang]

You slowly trust the process and you slowly get into it, and you slowly kind of go, okay, fine. This is actually happening. Because when Sophie told me.

[Jemima]

Yes, I want to know. Because in December, we obviously spoke about when she thought she was pregnant and.

[Nick Lang]

I left the restaurant. Yeah. Which was not a good move.

[Jemima]

Yeah. How was this time when it was real?

[Nick Lang]

Yeah. So if you haven't listened to that episode that Jemima and I did, Sophie thought she was pregnant before Christmas. And it really shook me. I was not prepared for it, and I was so anxious that I sort of had to leave the restaurant, which is not a very good thing to do to your partner, especially in those situations. And then when she told me, I said to her, the one thing I really would love you to do is just to film it. So she did film it, and that's.

[Jemima]

Why did you want to film?

[Nick Lang]

Because I just love capturing everything.

[Jemima]

Okay.

[Nick Lang]

For me, I, like, watch it back. Yeah. I just love it. I love it. Like, I have a really good memory, but I also have a bad memory. And I get, like. And pictures for me and, like, videos. My dad and my family, like, always, like, we filmed me growing up, right? With, like, video cameras. I had a video camera the whole time, wherever I went. So I love capturing everything. And when she told me, I was. It's like an amazing moment of like. Are you kidding? Are you kidding me? What? And it felt like the same moment when I proposed where you feel like you're slightly floating. And I can only imagine that's like severe anxiety that goes through your body, but also excitement at the same time. So it was just an amazing, beautiful moment. It was insane. It was insane.

[Jemima]

And you didn't leave and I didn't.

[Nick Lang]

Leave, which is the big thing. I stood my ground. I went. I'm so excited.

[Jemima]

Really?

[Nick Lang]

Yeah. And I was excited. And I wasn't pretending or trying to put on her face. I was excited. But I just want to make it. I just want to be a good dad.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

Like, that's the big. I just want to be a good dad.

[Jemima]

I just. You said something earlier about having nine months to prepare, and you were like, you know, whether God or whatever it is gives us. Have you got more? Because you've mentioned this quite a few times on the show about praying. Have you become more existential now? Because, like, life, death, those two things, when you lose someone or when someone new's coming into your life can make us really look at those two ends and get big. Have you got more existential?

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, I pray. I try and pray every morning and every night. And I. I don't know if I'm religious really. I don't really know what I am. And I. And I think being thankful for things is really important. So every night I go to bed, I thank for everything. And every morning I wake up and thank again for everything. And I just say simple things, you know, thank you for my health and thank you for my family's health and my friend's health. I always pray for the baby's health, and I just say thank you. And I think if you constantly. If you're constantly thanking, I think then for me, you're almost believing that you're never believing the hype of anything. Because I'm very blessed. I'm so blessed. Right. I have a roof over my head. My wife has fallen pregnant. You know, I can eat Food. I feel that's so lucky. With all the things that are going on in the world and all the news that we hear and all the terrible things that are going on, I feel very thankful. And so if you keep thanking for all the things that are coming, you'll never getting too big for your boots, ever. You never take anything for granted. You're always thanking it.

[Jemima]

Yeah. Also sounds a bit like you're kind of taking control of that situation.

[Nick Lang]

Oh, maybe that's. Is it back to control again?

[Jemima]

No. But maybe that's what it is. Like, the anxiety of, like, you can't control and wanting to control, and you're kind of like accepting that you can't control everything, but you're stopping and going. But I am thankful for this. I am taking a beat and getting.

[Nick Lang]

It's so important to do that. I swear to God.

[Jemima]

I just think that's really interesting when.

[Nick Lang]

I think never do.

[Jemima]

Yeah. Like the switch. Like, it feels like lots of switches. The lighting system in your head is completely changed. All the switches are different.

[Nick Lang]

I used to pray as a kid at night.

[Jemima]

Yeah. I did the same every.

[Nick Lang]

Oh, my God. I used to say, please keep us safe this night, Secure from all our fears. May angels guide us while we sleep. To morning, night appears peers. And then I used to say, can that go for Mummy, Daddy, Sander, Emmy, Tash Gems. I would go through my whole family and I would do it all. Even including my silkies, which were my teddy bears. I used to say, and keep silky and little silky safe. I'd do that every single night. Every single night from about the age of 6 to 14.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

And then suddenly just stopped.

[Jemima]

Yeah. There's building healthy neural pathways as well, I think, doing that kind of thing.

[Nick Lang]

I think I was just anxiety and OCD at a young age. I didn't realize.

[Jemima]

Yeah. But also sounds like you're someone who always wants to, like, make. You've always wanted to make sure everyone around you is okay.

[Nick Lang]

Always.

[Jemima]

Which makes you'll be a great dad.

[Nick Lang]

Thank you. I hope so.

[Jemima]

Talking about being a dad, what kind of dad is that you want to be? So on this show, we talk loads about, you know, attachment style and, you know, loads of things which have happened to us as a child, which impact who we are today. How does that make you feel, bringing someone up, knowing when you look back and you're like, oh, I'm this. Because when I was a kid, this happened to me. You're gonna be doing that for someone.

[Nick Lang]

I think I was a very needy child. I was Very emotional. I think I still am very emotional. And I think I was also like a frustrated child as well, so I would throw a lot of tantrums and like be. Be frustrated all the time. But I loved being hugged. I loved like just being told that it was, you know, I just, I loved all of that emotional side. So I think as a, as a dad, I will probably be the same to my kid, which will probably be quite annoying. I mean, that probably means the kid will repel. But Sophie's not very emotional like that. So Sophie and I actually work quite nice in a sort of pendulum with each other where we sort of swing between each ways, which is quite good. And so one of each. One of each. I think you kind of need that.

[Jemima]

Yeah. What do you think that your dad did? Well, that you would like to.

[Nick Lang]

My dad was always consistent, I think. And I think for me. And as you grow up, you don't, you don't realize that, like I tell you, there's no. There are things that I've really learned growing up that I never knew before. So I wrote a letter to my grandmother and I found this letter the other day and I was terrible with money. I spent everything, anything. I. And by the way, I didn't earn the money. My dad gave me the money, so he gave it to me as pocket money. So I never earned it, it was never mine, never went out and had to work in a shop. I was very lucky he gave me. It wasn't a huge amount at all, but I had pocket money. And I wrote a letter to my grandmother asking for money from her. And in the letter I said something like, my train tickets are expensive and I'm writing to you, granny, to like, possibly have £200. Can you please send me £200? You'll be the greatest grandmother. And in that I said, I've asked my dad for 200 pounds. And he said no. And what a horrible thing that is. I now look at it and I go, what? That is exactly the right thing to do.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

But growing up, I think I expected a lot. So I expected that you would go on holiday or I expected that you were just given. If I. If I. If you ask money, surely you just be given it. And so my dad said no to things. My dad didn't like me drinking that much. And so my dad was very liberal in lots of ways. But when it came to serious things, things that in later life, you know, you need to have control over, he was very strong with them. And for me, I really want to Try and replicate that.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

I think it's so important to be a liberal parent for. Allow your kids to make their own mistakes. You cannot helicopter them, you cannot micromanage them, in my opinion. And if you do, if you, if you restrict them from doing things, trust me, they're going to go and do it 100%. They're going to go and do all these different things. And my dad never restricted me from really doing anything, but there were, there were boundaries and I knew I couldn't cross that boundary, but the boundaries were a good fence. And so you felt very safe in that place.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

And for me, that's a really good way to parent.

[Jemima]

I think just your, your kid is going to also grow up in quite like a, in quite a weird world because of who their parents parent. Yeah, their parents will be. So they'll probably have quite a lot of things that other opportunities and things.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

And be. Have some sort of privilege. How do you, how will you kind of make sure you.

[Nick Lang]

I will definitely 100% try and not spoil your children because if you grow up expecting, then that becomes a problem in later life. And I think work ethic is a really good thing. I, I try and understand why I have a good work ethic. My dad was an entrepreneur, so he, he was always going to work. But I definitely want to instill like you have to work towards something and I actually think for me, Sport did a lot of that. So I knew that if you put the work in to do something, at some point you would finally get it. And I think I kind of want to train that into my kids as well.

[Jemima]

Yeah, that's great.

[Nick Lang]

Is that a good thing?

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

Oh my God. I feel. Jesus. Am I saying the right things? I don't know if I'm saying the right things.

[Jemima]

I think it's you. Yeah. I think your instinct.

[Nick Lang]

What is wrong and right? I don't know.

[Jemima]

Instinct to follow your instinct. I think people have a lot of opinions in this space and like, you know, a lot of people have said you just listen to your instincts with these things.

[Nick Lang]

You just listen to your instincts.

[Jemima]

Yeah. Well, we have with us today, your dad is actually here. Nick, would you like to come on?

[Jamie Lang]

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[Jamie Lang]

BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com random podcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax.

[Nick Lang]

So this is my dad, Nick.

[Jemima]

Mr. Lang.

[Nick Lang]

Mr. Yeah. Well, I mean, how do you pronounce it, Lang?

[Jamie Lang]

Laying an egg.

[Jemima]

Oh, laying, laying.

[Nick Lang]

It's not laying.

[Jamie Lang]

It's not laying, but it's near.

[Jemima]

It's near that I'm laying an egg slightly.

[Nick Lang]

It's still wrong, but that's all right. This is my dad. He's never, I've never invited him onto a podcast. Don't really know why.

[Jamie Lang]

You don't love me.

[Nick Lang]

Okay, come on, here we go. The table's now gonna turn. It's all coming out. But I had, you know, we've spoken about this, Paul. We can speak about it here. We had Amal Rajan on the podcast and we spoke a lot about dads on that. And I realized that, you know, you and I, we had never had like a conversation about parenting or anything like that properly. And so I spoke about it on the podcast and it was kind of a very emotional moment for me.

[Jemima]

Yeah. And I think a lot of people were very invested. We've had so many people email in.

[Nick Lang]

And say, Jamie, well, father son relationship is a strange thing, right?

[Jemima]

Yeah. What was Jamie like as a kid? Nightmare, really.

[Jamie Lang]

Absolute nightmare from beginning to end.

[Jemima]

It's starting.

[Jamie Lang]

Everything starting to ease now.

[Nick Lang]

I think it is. I actually think it is time to ease now. Can't be totally honest. How bad was I?

[Jemima]

Because baby one was, well, Alexander, who's older. Your.

[Nick Lang]

So. So baby one was Tash, who for my dad's first marriage, baby Two gems, baby. Three with my mum was my brother Alexander. Fine, then I was the next.

[Jemima]

Alexander was an angel child.

[Jamie Lang]

Still is.

[Jemima]

And still is. So I guess it makes sense. The second one's going to be a nightmare. A nightmare, yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jemima]

But from, from the, from the get go.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I think his. What was the horoscope. Beware the Scorpio. Born at dawn. He was born at dawn.

[Nick Lang]

I was, I was a nightmare.

[Jamie Lang]

And so he came out a nightmare and just continued.

[Nick Lang]

And I used to, I used to, I used to steal things from my dad. Like I used to steal money and keys.

[Jamie Lang]

It was the house keys. That was the. And we found them down the drain.

[Nick Lang]

I don't know why it's mad.

[Jemima]

How did you, did you understand why he was like that? Were there things that he would do where you were like, oh, I was a bit cheeky, or.

[Jamie Lang]

The answer is you didn't really bother about understanding it, just trying to deal.

[Jemima]

Find the keys.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nick Lang]

That's hilarious. You didn't even think of. You think why he was doing it. Do you know what's so funny? That is so true. Back then you wouldn't, you know, you're not thinking like, is there something odd with this child?

[Jamie Lang]

No.

[Nick Lang]

You're just thinking, where's he put the keys?

[Jamie Lang]

Where's he put the keys?

[Nick Lang]

And now.

[Jamie Lang]

And when I find them, I'm going to give him the rocket of his bloody life.

[Nick Lang]

That's true.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

This is. It's so true. When. Now we think, and maybe we overthink it, we think, oh, well, there must be something wrong with the child. Maybe there's something going on there and maybe I was just. I was probably just a naughty kid, I think.

[Jemima]

Yeah. A lot of energy, though.

[Nick Lang]

A lot of energy. Yeah. Needy dad. Was I needy?

[Jamie Lang]

No. I don't think you were any needier than any of the others. You just were different, you know? But every child's different. Every child has their own characteristics. And whether one's good or one's bad, it's. It's what's what they are and you kind of roll with it.

[Nick Lang]

So. So then, in your opinion, what's the best way to parent a child, would you say?

[Jamie Lang]

Don't read the books.

[Nick Lang]

Really?

[Jamie Lang]

No.

[Nick Lang]

Why? Explain that to me.

[Jamie Lang]

You remember your childhood?

[Nick Lang]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. I mean, the thing is, I mean, one of the most important things is you're not going to get it right. Okay? No one does. And perhaps there are a few exceptions, but most people don't get it right. You're going to make mistakes. We all make mistakes. And you will look back at your childhood and there will be good bits, there will be bad bits for whatever, you know, different reasons, and you learn from the bad bits. And I mean, that's, you know, in sort of traditional societies, it was the grannies who helped bring up the children.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Because they've got the experience, you know, they've done it before. So when you. We've kind of lost that in our culture, which I think is a shame.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, we did. You were brought up by the village.

[Jamie Lang]

Absolutely. And they instilled in, you know, into the child, you know, the culture and the parameters that, that you grow up with. You don't need books.

[Nick Lang]

No, it's actually interesting.

[Jamie Lang]

That's an old fashioned view, I'm sure.

[Nick Lang]

But it's, but it's. Yeah, but we've been through centuries doing that.

[Jamie Lang]

Right.

[Nick Lang]

And so there is a way of doing it. And I, I definitely think there's an argument to suggest that we are too overcome with information, that when there is too much information, we don't really know the good from the bad, the left from the right. And so it's like going through weeds and you're like, well, hang on, do I need to do this or do I need to do that or what do I do here or what do I do there? I don't. You don't really know what is right. And everyone has an opinion.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, everyone.

[Nick Lang]

Everyone has an opinion, which is a tough thing.

[Jemima]

Do you find that calming when he says don't read the books?

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, massively. Honestly, Massively.

[Jemima]

That's what dads do.

[Jamie Lang]

Calm you down and don't overprotect.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, but how do you not do that? Explain that to me.

[Jamie Lang]

It manifests itself in hundreds of different ways, I think. I mean, I, I look at, you know, parenting today with, you know, parents much younger than me, and they, they don't give their children the freedom they need. I notice it in, in so many ways. I mean, even when it comes round to, you know, disinfecting kitchens or not letting their children scrabble around in the dirt and put their fingers in their mouth or get licked by the dogs who 10 minutes before have had his nose up another bottom, you know, it's you, you, you build immunity. You know, if, if you, if a child gets its hands dirty and puts the dirt in its mouth, it's not going to die, you know, it's fine. It's just going, the system will create, will deal with it. Let them do it. It's fine.

[Nick Lang]

You were quite liberal like that. You let us climb trees and you let us go on like, different things and you let us like. But everything, everything. We lived on a farm when we grew up and so it was just like a playground for a kid. Can't imagine growing up on a farm, what that is like, from hay bales to combine harvesters to lambing to like. I mean, it was a playground and so many dangerous things.

[Jamie Lang]

Well, you had a trampoline in the garden with no net net.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So if you bounced off, you bounced off.

[Nick Lang]

And I bounced off a lot. Yeah, but it's true. You do. You become resilient and you learn because.

[Jamie Lang]

You bounce off once. You don't bounce off again.

[Nick Lang]

Okay, so can I ask you then another. So in your opinion, what are the don'ts as a parent don'ts?

[Jamie Lang]

I think it, it's that, it's the. You've got to create parameters. You just touched on that earlier on. But within those parameters, I think you should allow your children the freedom to express themselves and, and, and, and forge their own paths. But I think it's, I mean, it's, it's obviously, you know, age related. You know, when they're younger, perhaps they need a little bit more channeling. But as they grow older, they have, they have to be able to express themselves and, and, and make their own decisions. Parents, parents are making decisions for their children. When children should be making the decisions. You, you should be there as a, you know, for advice.

[Nick Lang]

The one thing that you did care about was alcohol. You always had a thing about alcohol.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, but that's probably because my dad was an alcoholic.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

So conscious of it.

[Nick Lang]

I wish you'd. That was one thing which I wish. I drank way too much in my 20s.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, but you also spent too much money.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's true. It's true. It's true.

[Jemima]

How did you just talking about letting kids make their own decisions. Obviously Jamie made the decision to go on Made in Chelsea and then is kind of catapulted into this very public Persona which he's, you know, absolutely thrived and built this amazing career in. How was that for you? Because all of a sudden there's there's so many opinions about your son on tv. Every day you're seeing him maybe doing things which maybe you wouldn't have heard about. Like how did you find him suddenly.

[Nick Lang]

Being in public eyes as.

[Jamie Lang]

I don't do Instagram, actually. I don't know anything that's happening probably quite.

[Jemima]

But when he first went on Chelsea, we. How did you find him suddenly everyone knowing who your son was?

[Jamie Lang]

Well, because in, in Jamie's way, he, he rang up everybody. He rang me and said that he, you know, had this opportunity, should I do it? He rang his mum, said, I got this opportunity, should I do it? He rang everybody. You could think of saying he'd already made the decision, he knew he was going to do it, but he just needed that reassurance.

[Jemima]

Yeah. And then when he did do it, and he's, you know, five years in, he's a known character, was that hard watching or seeing?

[Nick Lang]

You know, be, be honest, were there any moments which you were just like.

[Jamie Lang]

No, not, no, not at all. I mean, you know, pinnacle of my career is, you know, Jamie Lang's dad. I've had my photograph taken. Jamie Lang's dad.

[Nick Lang]

I think there were moments though, I think there were moments though, where like, I, I was just not present for many years, I wasn't present. And dad finds it just to carry it. Dad finds it very hard to talk about. Like, dad's not an open book. That's why coming on the podcast today is quite like a dad will come and talk about travel, business, he can talk about countries, he's got a plethora of knowledge about different things. But talking about emotional side of things. Nick Lang is not good at that. So a lot of people aren't, a lot of people aren't Asian, but you can be honest. Cause it doesn't affect me one bit. But I was not present and I wasn't always there for a lot of the period, was I?

[Jamie Lang]

No. Yeah, you were in your, in your, in your early 20s.

[Nick Lang]

You were on a different planet, totally different.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, we didn't see you and you were fickle as well. You, you would say you would do something and then you, and you let people down badly. And that was, that was not good.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, it's a really bad trait to have. It was a big wake up call at some points, but suddenly I realized it and you don't realize it because you're being selfish and you think, well, if it doesn't bother me, why would it bother the other person? So you think about it wasn't good.

[Jemima]

Yeah. But also it's letting your kid make their decisions and.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, no, no, absolutely.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

Dad never said anything. He never said anything. Dad never. You really didn't. You really didn't. Like, if I'm being totally honest, you never said to me, you're being an idiot or you're being a Bit of a dick or you're letting your family down. You didn't really.

[Jamie Lang]

Wouldn't have made any difference.

[Nick Lang]

No, it probably wouldn't have at the.

[Jemima]

Time, you know him.

[Nick Lang]

But there were. There wasn't any of that where my mum made it quite clear a lot of the time, which made me retract even more. A bit.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

Cause you were like, well, hang on. So you don't know what. What I'm going through or what I'm dealing with. All these different things. So it was a sort of ongoing battle.

[Jemima]

Yeah. Can I ask, and possibly again, don't have to answer. How, when you and Jamie's mum separated, how has that experience, parenting from as when you're separated?

[Jamie Lang]

That's a difficult one. Which I'm not convinced I'm going to air on the show.

[Nick Lang]

Do you know what I can tell you about my. The one thing about my dad, right. I've said this before. When parents separate, right. You know, as dad said, in life, people make decisions and people do things, and no one's had a dress rehearsal. They just. You go into life and expect, you know, what life happens. And as a child, I think you think that your parents have all the answers all the time. And I always say this. I think. I always think that at 30 years old, someone's gonna open the door and go, come on in. I've got all the secrets for you. Then I turn 30 and realize that everyone's guessing. And that's a scary moment to suddenly realize, right? But I tell you the one thing my dad has never done, ever. My dad has never, ever spoken badly about anyone or anything during that time, ever. Not in my whole life. Not even now. Not that he would. I spoke this on Amal's podcast when I was with Amal, right? I had a narrative in my head that, oh, it was possibly more one side's fault or this is what happened. It's all nonsense. You know, people grow up and it takes two to tango, but as a kid, you don't realize that. And so for me, growing up and realizing that everyone's just guessing and trying to do their best the whole entire time, the fact that dad has never, ever said anything bad, ever, never said one thing, never said one thing about my mom, never said one thing about the separation, never about anything, and just always kept it to himself, is hugely honorable, I would say, because it's very easy during those times, especially with a kid who's a bit of a nightmare, who is being a dad. I said on the animal's Podcast just being a bit of a dick a lot of the times. Dad just knew probably at some point it would come back round, which I think it has done now.

[Jemima]

Well, that's what I want to ask you next. You guys obviously have a really beautiful relationship, but also I'm enjoying sitting with you both. But also he. He sounds like he. Yeah, he was a bit lost in his early 20s and maybe, you know, wasn't as present as he is now. Was there a point? Do you remember what was the thing when Jamie returned or Jamie came back to. Or. I mean, you.

[Jamie Lang]

I don't think there was a definitive moment. It's been a sort of gradual progression that he sort of.

[Nick Lang]

I have my little brother George.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

Who is 20 now, about to be 21 in August. He's at Edinburgh. He's the best. So my stepmother Katya, who is just a brilliant person. That's George, who's my brother with Katya and Dad. And he's like, you know, one of my best friends in the world. And I think he was the one that I just like, loved hanging out with so much and being around and just being with. And so that was like, bring me back to family a lot of the time, I think, from my side.

[Jamie Lang]

But going back to the parenting side, you were very good with him as a baby.

[Nick Lang]

Was I?

[Jamie Lang]

When he, when he was a baby.

[Nick Lang]

I remember this.

[Jamie Lang]

He. When he was a baby, when he was little, you absolutely bonded with him instantly. Alexander wouldn't even pick him up. Whereas you, you know, you were up. You were bouncing him up and down, throwing him in the air and giving him a hug. You know, when he was, you know, a year old. Right from the very beginning, there was.

[Nick Lang]

This moment where I was asked to look after him for the afternoon. He's very young. And this was when dad, you know, dad came upstairs and said to me, he was like, just let you know, I'm. I think I'm. I'm going to marry Katya, my stepmother. And my first answer was, don't have any kids. Straight away. Did not say why he did.

[Jamie Lang]

I don't know, because it would disrupt the family unit.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

Okay.

[Nick Lang]

I was emotional and, you know, I was. It would disrupt and I think. Yeah. And I didn't. We're okay, we're here now. I don't want anything else coming in. Nothing else. Nothing else. Let's keep it here. And thank God dad did not listen to me. Wouldn't listen to a 10 year old or whatever I was, but thank God he didn't because Then George was born, and I was looking after him one day, and my wonderful stepmother and I. She probably had a bit of a handful with me because, you know, my mum was my mom and Katya was my stepmother. And that was a bit this and that at the beginning. And when George came along, I was looking after him and he started to have a coughing fit. And I thought, oh, my God, he's gonna die. And Katya's gonna think that I've done this on purpose. Cause I'm looking after him. So I didn't know what to do. And I was like, help. And then he just stopped coughing. I was like, thank God. Terrifying moment. This sweet little baby. It was amazing.

[Jemima]

Nick, how did you react when Jamie said that him and Sophie were having a baby?

[Jamie Lang]

Oh, I was thrilled.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Oh, it's the best news. It's, you know, it's the most natural progression, I suppose, in the world. It's so exciting.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Nick Lang]

I told my dad. Oh, yeah.

[Jemima]

How did it happen?

[Nick Lang]

I. We went to see my grandmother up In Scotland, who's 92.

[Jemima]

Is this Grandma Scotland?

[Nick Lang]

Granny Scott?

[Jemima]

94.

[Nick Lang]

She's 94.

[Jamie Lang]

Back to me 5.

[Jemima]

There's a lot of fans of Granny Scotland who listen to the show you do.

[Nick Lang]

I was in the car and I had told my mum on the Friday, I think it was, and we hadn't told anyone else. And I then got in the car with my dad. I wanted to tell people face to face. That was my thing. I didn't want to want to do it on phones or stuff like that. And I got in the car and I told dad in the car when we were driving to see, when it was quite late, I just picked me up from the station at Edinburgh and. Yeah, you can't. It's an amazing thing. It's like the reaction when you tell a parent that you yourself are having your own kids. It's unbelievable. And dad just smiled. You didn't say anything. You did the same reaction when I said to you I was gonna marry Sophie. You were getting on your motorbike, too. Cause dad drives motorbikes and he's getting on his motorbike. And I said, oh, by the way, I got one more thing to tell you. I'm thinking about marrying Sophie. And dad, same thing. To smile went.

[Jamie Lang]

At last. At last.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

What's taking you so long?

[Nick Lang]

I know, but it's an amaz. I can't tell you. It's like. It's just a wild moment. And for me, son, telling a dad that first you're Getting married, but also that you're having a kid. Yeah. It's unbeatable, I think.

[Jemima]

Yeah. It's closing the loop, you know.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, it is.

[Jemima]

Son becomes dad.

[Nick Lang]

What? Dad. Why tell me now? Because I told you said on the podcast, right, that you said that thing we. You wouldn't be having this conversation with me if you didn't have kids. And how many times did I phone you saying, is it a good idea, kids?

[Jemima]

How many times a week?

[Jamie Lang]

We had that conversation a number of times over a number of years, I have to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, we did.

[Nick Lang]

Why do you think it's. Why are kids a magical thing to have if you can have kids or want kids?

[Jamie Lang]

There are some people out there who can't have kids.

[Nick Lang]

I know, I know. Exactly.

[Jamie Lang]

And when you've got kids, you understand that's very sad for them, but lots of people, you know, don't want kids for whatever reason it is. For me, I. It's what's so magical. It's. They're part of you, you know. You know, I created you. Well, two of us did. And, and, and. And it's flesh and blood. And the excitement of watching a child grow and develop is something that you can't really explain because, you know, you start. There's this little sort of squeaking ball and of nothing. And. And then you start to walk and then you start to talk properly and then you go to school, you wear your uniform and you, you know, you've grow up and become. You don't.

[Nick Lang]

Because you'll get me going. That's not allowed, dad. That's not allowed.

[Jemima]

And then I'll go. And that's just weird.

[Nick Lang]

That is not allowed on this. That's not allowed. None of that.

[Jemima]

That's so beautiful.

[Nick Lang]

None of that part.

[Jemima]

No, it is allowed on here.

[Nick Lang]

You can. It's the one rule.

[Jemima]

Yeah, no, you're allowed. Your whole run was about. It's allowed to do that.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jemima]

That's really beautiful, Nick. Your heart running around.

[Nick Lang]

You're going to have to talk for a second.

[Jemima]

I'm going to.

[Jamie Lang]

Have you got another question.

[Jemima]

When we go through this whole thing, baby names.

[Nick Lang]

But I tell you what, I tell you what it is making. And I won't be able to look at dad at this, but making your. For me, making your parents proud is.

[Jemima]

Yeah, well, I was gonna ask you that, but I don't actually think I need to ask if you're proud of Jamie, because everything you say, images.

[Jamie Lang]

I'm proud of all My children.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Because each of them. I mean, okay, I know he's famous, but each of them, in their own way.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

Have achieved, you know, what they wanted to achieve. And that's the great thing. They're all completely different, which is lovely.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lang]

And a joy.

[Jemima]

Yeah. A load of him would be quite a lot for any parent.

[Jamie Lang]

Can you imagine?

[Jemima]

Wonderfully as he is. One is enough.

[Jamie Lang]

One is enough. And absolutely.

[Jemima]

Okay, well, I'm just gonna. I've got a few last little. Any tips for. For Jamie?

[Jamie Lang]

Okay.

[Jemima]

So when Sophie goes into labour, any. Any do's don'ts.

[Jamie Lang]

That's a conversation in itself. It's the most amazing moment possibly in your life to see your child born. And it depends sort of which end you're standing, obviously.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, I'm gonna be fully that end.

[Jamie Lang]

It's whether you're down the rough end.

[Nick Lang]

I'm gonna be fully down the. Oh, my God. I would be fully down that end with a GoPro on. I would be going hell for leather. I can't wait to see every single bit of it. But that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm in, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in.

[Jemima]

Okay. And then I just want to ask these last few months that Jamie has with Sophie, preparing for this baby, any things, you know, like, not to take for granted or to.

[Jamie Lang]

Like this last few months.

[Jemima]

Yeah, pre baby.

[Jamie Lang]

Last few months. Enjoy every single second, because from the moment it's born, your life changes forever. Forever.

[Jemima]

There's the anxiety back, full circle back to the anxiety.

[Nick Lang]

But in a beautiful way, sometimes it's hard work.

[Jamie Lang]

It's hard work to begin with. It's hard work. You're tired.

[Nick Lang]

I get that. But I can be tired. I'm fine with tired.

[Jamie Lang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nick Lang]

And I'm fine with playing whack a mole. But the one thing I don't want to do is I want to still. I think the one thing that I hear from a lot of couples that they say, oh, we had to learn to fall back in love again. And for me, I just want to make sure that Sophie and I are always the priority. And then there's also the baby as well.

[Jamie Lang]

It's not going to happen.

[Nick Lang]

Okay, well, I'm good. It's like my idea. I'm out.

[Jamie Lang]

The baby is the priority for Sophie, and you are nothing on the sidelines.

[Nick Lang]

Just get used to it.

[Jamie Lang]

Okay. You know, you'll be. You'll be brought back in again.

[Nick Lang]

And don't argue back.

[Jamie Lang]

No, no, no.

[Nick Lang]

Yeah, that's the one thing that I.

[Jamie Lang]

You know, and, and, and do your.

[Nick Lang]

Bit, which is whatever it.

[Jamie Lang]

Whatever it is, whatever works for you. There's no right or wrong, but. And I think at the early days, it's the baby and the mum who, you know, are together. She's breastfeeding. There's not a lot you can do. So, you know, just give her the support, bring her the tea. Be there for her, you know, when she needs you and she won't. But. But, yeah, be there when you can.

[Jemima]

Thank you.

[Nick Lang]

Dad. You're the greatest. You really are. You really are. Yeah, that's it.

[Jamie Lang]

What?

[Nick Lang]

No more. But I do.

[Jamie Lang]

Second episode.

[Nick Lang]

I do. I want to say this though. You're the greatest. You are the greatest dad in the entire world.

[Jamie Lang]

I don't think so.

[Nick Lang]

You really. Well, for me you are. And I know for all of us he will try and shut it down, but you really are. You're the greatest person. All of us as kids love you so much beyond. And I said amos per second, but if I ever was not quite present over there, I am sorry and I love you very much. And I can't wait to have all these years ahead of you with not just me, but the little baby as well and Sophie and everything. It's gonna be the most magical thing ever.

[Jamie Lang]

Do you think it'll have blonde hair like you?

[Nick Lang]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

Thank you so much for coming on this show.

[Nick Lang]

Thank you so much. It's been amazing.

[Jemima]

That was lovely.

[Nick Lang]

That was amazing.

[Jamie Lang]

Hi, I'm Adam Grant, host of the podcast Work Life. For over 20 years, Paylocity has been simplifying work with innovative solutions that that teams love. Like on demand payment, which offers employees access to wages prior to payday, flexible time tracking features which enable staff to clock in and out through their mobile device and numerous other cutting edge solutions that simplify collaboration across hr, finance and it. Learn more about how Paylocity can help streamline work and enhance business outcomes for your [e-mail] simplified if you work as a manufacturing facilities engineer, installing a new piece of equipment can be as complex as the machinery itself. From prep work to alignment and testing, it's your team's job to put it all together. That's why it's good to have Grainger on your side. With industrial grade products and next day delivery, Grainger helps ensure you have everything you need close at hand through every step of the installation. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Jemima]

Are your ULCERATIVE colitis symptoms proving difficult to manage. Tremphya Guselcamab can help you manage the cycle of UC symptoms. At one year, many patients taking Tremphya achieved clinical remission and some patients also achieved endoscopic remission. Individual results may vary. Tremphya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tb. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Ask your doctor if Tremphaya can help you manage the cycle of UC symptoms. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tremphyaradio.com.

[Jamie Lang]

How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer?

[Jemima]

Too many to say here.

[Nick Lang]

Multi vehicle discount Safe driver discount New.

[Jemima]

Vehicle discount Storage discount Legacy how many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com autodiscounts restrictions.