JASON DONOVAN on Dr*gs, Partying in the 90s & Why Having His Daughter Changed His Life

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Great Company with Jamie Laing
Episode: JASON DONOVAN on Dr*gs, Partying in the 90s & Why Having His Daughter Changed His Life
Host: Jamie Laing
Guest: Jason Donovan
Date: December 17, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this candid and wide-ranging interview, Jamie Laing sits down with Jason Donovan, the iconic Australian actor and pop star, for an unflinching conversation about addiction, fame, reinvention, and the turning points that shaped his life. Jason opens up about the wild highs and chaotic lows of celebrity in the 80s and 90s, his battles with substance abuse, family dynamics, public scrutiny, and how the birth of his daughter was the catalyst for profound personal change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Childhood, Family & Upbringing (04:50–10:35)

• Growing up in Australia: Jason discusses being raised primarily by his father, actor Terence Donovan, after his parents split in 1972.
  • “My father got custody of me… He’s probably the only person in my life that's been part of my life consistently for 57 years.” (07:13)
• Complex family dynamics:
  • Jason’s relationship with his mother was distant at times, but improved as they both aged.
  • His grandmother (mother’s mother) played a significant role in his upbringing.

Early Career & ‘Neighbours’ Breakthrough (11:17–18:00)

• Entry into ‘Neighbours’: Jason recounts initially turning down the role, at his father’s urging, in favor of finishing school. The show was canceled but revived, and he eventually got the part of Scott Robinson right after finishing his exams.
  • “All the teachers unanimously said, go… And my dad said, don’t do it, turn it down.” (13:17)
• Learning to say no:
  • Jason reflects on wishing he had said “no” to more things in his career, learning its importance from his on/off screen partner, Kylie Minogue.
  • “No risk, no magic… sometimes say no.” (15:44)

Superstardom, Fame & ‘Jasonmania’ (18:00–20:59)

• Surreal heights:
  • The on-screen wedding with Kylie in ‘Neighbours’ was watched by 22 million, a cultural phenomenon that defined their early careers.
• The pressures of fame:
  • Becoming ‘owned by the world.’ Paparazzi, invasive fans, and relentless media attention took a psychological toll.
  • “People camped outside the house.” (19:58)
• Coping through work—then burning out:
  • An intense schedule with little respite led to overwhelming stress and contributed to beginning substance abuse.

The 1990s: London, Theatre, and Downward Spiral (20:59–38:56)

• Theatre reinvention:
  • Taking on ‘Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat’ felt like the right move—“a way of reinventing what I was doing” (22:36)—but the workload was punishing.
• Drugs as escape:
  • Jason began using drugs “to escape,” leading to increasingly dangerous binges.
  • “I started to get into drugs quite a bit to… escape.” (20:59)
• Infamous moments:
  • Describes the infamous Viper Room collapse at Kate Moss’s 21st birthday: “...suddenly finds himself in a stretcher with the room closed down. Jamie, nothing, nothing to be proud of.” (33:56)
  • Admits to consuming up to three grams of cocaine a day during binges.

Sexuality, Tabloid Battles & Identity (24:09–29:26)

• The Face Magazine lawsuit:
  • Jason sued after being outed without his consent. He contextualizes the climate of the late 80s/early 90s, stressing it was about honesty, not homophobia:
    • “It was not the issue about homosexuality… the suggestion that I was lying about myself was where it came down to.” (27:10)
• Reflection on public mistakes:
  • “I’ve had to make decisions sometimes with no experience… there’s no real rulebook.”

Addiction, Rock Bottom & Recovery (29:26–38:56)

• How addiction took hold:
  • Recreational use became sustained binges; Jason recalls going four days without sleep, having seizures, and feeling no filter due to “money and ability to do what I wanted.”
  • “I just got back on it straight away... No filter. Nothing.” (34:11)
• The true cost of fame and freedom:
  • “That’s the freedom of success and fame… but it’s a curse.” (34:38)
• Turning point — Love and Family:
  • The birth of his daughter Gemma and meeting his wife Angela were the catalysts for change:
    • “That was the get out clause I was waiting for.” (31:57)
  • Jason describes himself as “all or nothing”—he could not be “half a parent.”

Processing & Accepting Past Mistakes (38:56–42:46)

• No rock bottom—but lots of public fallout:
  • “I didn’t hit that rock bottom... I was having my teenage years in the public.”
• Coming to terms with the public’s perception:
  • Constant references to his relationship with Kylie, even decades on: “Every time I get into a cab now is, ‘How’s Kylie?’” (55:21)
• Learning not to chase ‘coolness’:
  • “I thought for a long time I wasn’t cool... there is no such thing as being cool.” (41:00)

On Love: Kylie Minogue, Angela, and Relationships (51:14–58:16)

• Art imitating life:
  • “Our connection and what we shared was on another level… your relationship is owned by the world.” (53:37)
• The aftermath of a public breakup:
  • Candid about heartbreak after Kylie began dating Michael Hutchence.
  • How public fixation on his old relationship affects his current marriage with Angela.
• Mature, growing love with Angela:
  • “It’s something that just grew… anything too quick and full on doesn’t have the meaning.” (56:39)

Masculinity, Insecurity, and Changing With Age (60:12–66:42)

• Losing hair, growing older as a ‘pretty boy’ icon:
  • Jason discusses hair loss, the stigma for men, and self-acceptance.
  • “I lost my hair… which I would argue was one of the reasons also why I probably started to go downhill a little bit.” (60:26)
• Male vulnerability and objectification:
  • “As an actor, you're not unless you look fucked up... unless you look, you're not versatile, you can't deliver the goods.”
  • On being objectified: “There is real prejudice towards that... I get shouted at from scaffolds... As objectified in a way.” (66:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On addiction as escape:

  "When we take substances, we're sort of putting a bandaid on pain."
  — Jason Donovan (00:13, 43:22)

• On luck and timing:

  "I don't believe in luck. I think you create your own luck in life… but timing is everything."
  — Jason Donovan (17:12)

• On the price of fame:

  "That’s the freedom of success and fame… but it’s a curse."
  — Jason Donovan (34:38)

• On fatherhood and change:

  "The catalyst for change was meeting my wife. She didn't change me, but that time changed me… the birth of Gemma, the realization that I could get out now…"
  — Jason Donovan (38:08)

• On vulnerability and masculinity:

  "The more lines, the more you know, the better you learn, the more interesting I feel."
  — Jason Donovan (65:14)

• On public scrutiny:

  "Your relationship is owned by the world and then you split up. That was a really tough, tough time."
  — Jason Donovan (53:37)

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------|---------------| | Family, Upbringing & Custody | 04:50–10:35 | | Getting The 'Neighbours' Role | 11:17–18:00 | | Peak Fame & Burnout | 18:00–20:59 | | 'Joseph', Reinvention, Burnout | 20:59–23:27 | | Face Magazine Lawsuit | 24:09–29:26 | | Substance Abuse Details | 29:26–38:56 | | Recovery & Fatherhood | 38:56–42:46 | | Finding True Self | 42:46–45:03 | | Jason & Kylie, Love, Relationships | 51:14–58:16 | | Aging, Masculinity & Insecurity | 60:12–66:42 | | Lightning Round/Q&A | 69:13–77:31 |

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Lightning Round – Quickfire Questions (69:13–77:31)

• Phrase that cheers you up: "The biggest fear is fear itself."
• Best complement you can receive: "That you’re authentic."
• Biggest fear about himself: "My OCD… it's getting worse."
• Last time he cried: Watching the Caroline Flack documentary.
• Guilty pleasure: "Long lunches with wine."
• What turns him off: "A messy house."
• What turns him on: “A clean house… and Jack Nicholson movies.”
• About himself he’s most proud: “My work ethic and my ability to talk to anyone.”
• Favourite swear word: "Cunt. It’s such a chunky word." (75:44)
• Favourite lyric: "If dreams were wings, you know I would have flown to you." ('Especially For You')
• Favourite 'Joseph' song: “I look handsome, I look smart, I am a walking work of art.”

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Tone & Style

The conversation is humorous, irreverent but always honest and vulnerable. Both Jason and Jamie move fluidly between deep introspection, gentle humour, and energetic banter. Jason is frank, reflective, and unafraid to own both his mistakes and his strengths, while Jamie’s empathetic, supportive questioning helps frame key moments with warmth and clarity.

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Themes & Takeaways

• Fame’s hidden dangers: Even as external success grows, so can internal struggle.
• Complex family and self-identity: Family fractures and public life contribute to the quest for “true self.”
• Resilience and change: True change requires internal motivation and is often sparked by love and responsibility.
• Mental health & vulnerability: Jason’s honesty about OCD and mental health underscores the importance of seeking help and self-awareness, especially for men.
• Acceptance over coolness: Trying to be someone else or “cool” is a losing game; authenticity is the real win.

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For listeners who want a raw, relatable, and at times laugh-out-loud look at what lies beneath the public persona, this episode delivers both entertainment and insight, with plenty of life lessons for anyone navigating tough crossroads or chasing self-acceptance.

Transcript

[Jamie Laing]

This episode contains conversations around substance abuse. If you're affected by anything you hear in this episode, please check the episode's description for a list of organizations who can help and support coming up in this episode of Great Company.

[Jason Donovan]

When we take substances, we're sort of putting a bandaid on pain.

[Jamie Laing]

There's a story of you in the viper room.

[Jason Donovan]

Viper room. That's a true story. It was Kate Moss 21st birthday party. I just wanted to go crash out. My dreams came true when I was 20 21. Without a handbook, how to navigate my way through what was happening to me.

[Jamie Laing]

Consuming so 3 grams of cocaine a day. Right. Did you nearly die?

[Jason Donovan]

I'm Jason Donovan and we're in great company.

[Jamie Laing]

Please welcome Mr. Jason Donovan.

[Jason Donovan]

The whole Jason mania thing was. Was outrageous. You couldn't go anywhere without his face on something.

[Jamie Laing]

You were that peak of fame without. When you and Kylie got married on screen, it was watched by 22 million people. That is like a royal wedding, but a fictional one.

[Jason Donovan]

Your relationship is owned by the world and then you split up. That was a really tough, tough time. All they talk about is the wedding. Every time I get into a cab now is, how's Kylie?

[Jamie Laing]

Were you in love with Kylie? You're overworked, you're burnt out, you're tired, you're doing eight shows a week and then it all at some point just comes crashing down because you can't cling on anymore.

[Jason Donovan]

And I sort of didn't want to be that Peter Pan and blond haired, blue eyed kid and I get shouted at from scaffolds.

[Jamie Laing]

Objectified in a way.

[Jason Donovan]

Correct. So I tried to really screw up the canvas.

[Jamie Laing]

How do you find your true self?

[Jason Donovan]

Fuck, that's a tough question.

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[Jason Donovan]

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[Sarah Gibson Tuttle]

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[Jason Donovan]

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[iHerb Advertiser]

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[Jason Donovan]

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[Sarah Gibson Tuttle]

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[Jason Donovan]

Dave's looking for a gift. One you can't ignore. But not the socks he picked.

[Jamie Laing]

I know, I'm putting them back.

[Jason Donovan]

Hey Dave, here's a tip. Put scratchers on your list. Oh scratchers, good idea. It's an easy shopping trip. We're glad we could assist.

[Jamie Laing]

Thanks random singing people.

[Jason Donovan]

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[American Red Cross Advertiser]

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[Jason Donovan]

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[Jamie Laing]

Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Laing and this is great company.

[Jason Donovan]

We recently got a cat.

[Jamie Laing]

Oh nice.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, a cat in the house. We lost a cat this year and I wasn't particularly happy about getting a new cat.

[Jamie Laing]

Because you had killed the last one.

[Jason Donovan]

Cause the last one I killed to get rid of it's kindness. There's a great story about that one. Just really quickly, Pixie we had for 18 years and then two years ago she just disappeared. And we realized that she'd been outside the front of the house and jumped into an Amazon truck. I'm not joking, I'm not fucking joking. And ended up. She was chipped, right? So literally we were like, oh my God, this cat's fucking gone. We're putting posters up, you know, the whole, the whole fucking. The Cellar tape asking everybody around town got to the point it had gone, she'd gone five months ang walks out the fucking house and go, the founder. I'm like fuck, you are kidding. In Dagenham. And do you remember, do you remember? They, they they. They. Do you remember about a year ago that you had to have your. Your. Your animals chipped? It came into law.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

And this person that had been looking after Pixie and Dagan and whoever she was, we never got to meet her.

[Jamie Laing]

Laura's from Tagenham's a great part of town. Was it you, Laura, named.

[Jason Donovan]

Named a fucking musical after the play. I love Daganum. I had to get my satellite out and bloody pack a fucking, you know, suitcase just to go and pick the thing up. Literally took 5 hours return to get back from there.

[Jamie Laing]

But you found Pixie?

[Jason Donovan]

I found her, mate.

[Jamie Laing]

But then Pixie died.

[Jason Donovan]

Well, well, we found her, came. We. She came back.

[Jamie Laing]

Not.

[Jason Donovan]

Not the same cat. Lasted about a year. It's a true story. And then I'm thinking of the same cat. Well, she. She'd gone through a lot of, I think Amazon prime too. Fuck hell, mate. I mean, that was.

[Jamie Laing]

So you get this.

[Jason Donovan]

This is an absolute true story.

[Jamie Laing]

You grew up in Australia. Your dad was kind of your hero, right, Growing up. Which I find kind of amazing because typically when I talk to people, right, normally, and this is a generalization, when parents divorce and you go one side, typically you. It feels like the mum is the one that sticks around and maybe dad dress off and go to place. But in your case, your dad was your hero. He's there all the time.

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean, you've explained that in your book about your mum's influence, which was a great read.

[Jamie Laing]

Thanks, man.

[Jason Donovan]

I really appreciate that.

[Jamie Laing]

Thank you.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, I was one of the first probably people in Australia. 1972, my parents split up. I really haven't got still into the details as to why that happened, but my father got custody of me.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you personally know why that happened?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean, both my parents are quite strong characters, you know, and no, I don't really know the fine print. No, I don't. Again, strong personalities. But they split up. Dad got custody of me and I ended up spending my time with him, you know, a lot of which was on sets, going to work. Wow. You know, he's been part of me. He's probably the only person in my life that's been part of my life consistently for 57 years and recently just turned 90. My dad is an incredibly outrageously honest character. He's always kept fit, loves a drink, loves to tell the truth in a harsh way. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, that can be pretty.

[Jamie Laing]

That's harsh growing up.

[Jason Donovan]

It's tough growing up, right? Yeah, I faced a lot of. A lot of stuff with that like what?

[Jamie Laing]

Give me an example if you can.

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean, he would jokingly always say, you got the fame and the money. And he said I got the hair. You know what I mean? But I said to him once, dad, I've managed to work the hair out, I've done that one. So I've always found a way around. But you look, dad, if he's had a few drinks, will tend to go a little bit off piste, shall we say.

[Jamie Laing]

Jason, do you, do you have a relationship with your mum at all now?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, I do, I do. It's had its. It's had fractious times, but it's on a sort of a good keel now, I think. You know, I understand that she, you know, there's been a lot of issues in the past, I think, and you will find this with, with family and kids and the sort of. Not a change in the guard, but a change in the generations where, you know, certain people. I'm the oldest, I'm the oldest. I'm the only one from my parents marriage, but I have three stepsisters from my mother's subsequent marriage and one brother from my dad's subsequent marriage that all the old problems tend to sort of disappear a little bit and your parents almost become your children.

[iHerb Advertiser]

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[Jamie Laing]

This is what happens. It's weird, it says this whole sort.

[Jason Donovan]

Of what happens not just psychologically but physically. You know, funny enough, my grandmother, a lady called Joan, who was my mum's mother, played a big part in my upbringing.

[Jamie Laing]

Really?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. Even though my mother and I didn't see a lot of each other, you know, it's difficult. She started another life with someone else. Lived in a different part of town.

[Jamie Laing]

In Melbourne, but in the same town.

[Jason Donovan]

In the same town, yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people would say, you know, there's issues that probably haven't been resolved as a result of particularly maybe a mum leaving. I would like to think that both parents are sort of equal as particularly. We're living in a generation when that is more prevalent than it's ever been and. Great. Fucking great for that.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

But I, I also inherited a great stepmother. You know, dad had relationships. My grandmother came in from my mum's mum always felt love.

[Jamie Laing]

Neighbors, right? Is a, is a, is a, is a big thing that a lot of people know and whether. It doesn't really matter how kind of old you are, you either watched it, heard of it, been a part of it, it's. It was like this just thing that was just so big and I remember Being young and my sisters being obsessed with it.

[Jason Donovan]

Right. How old are you? Were you.

[Jamie Laing]

I'm 37. So they're 10 years older. Right. But they were obsessed.

[Jason Donovan]

Exactly about the right age, man.

[Jamie Laing]

They were obsessed with it.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Walking onto set and being a part of something like Neighbours. When you were first getting into that, what was that like, if you could take us back then?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean, I always grew up on sets, you know. You know, there's pictures of me because my parents were divorced and my dad was a working actor, you know, and dad was in a TV show in the 70s for six years. And, you know, he would pick me up from school in full television makeup as a detective with a gun holster, you know, in his suit. And we drive to. We drive to, you know, drive to set because you have to shoot two or three scenes in the evening. And the company that he worked for, Crawfords, gave him a lot of scope to be able to look after me. They recognized that dad was a single parent, but I did a lot of shows in my teens. Then it came to my late teens and I got an audition for this new show called Neighbors. So I went along. I've seen pictures of the audition. I went on a tram, went to my gran's workplace.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you remember it?

[Jason Donovan]

I remember it very well. Went in there, went and auditioned for a character called Danny Ramsey. There were two households. There was the Robinsons and the Ramsay household. I got the part. I was 17 years old. I went to the school. The agent rang up my dad's agent. I inherited my dad's agent. Classic. And Gary Stewart rang up and said, look, you've got the part, you know, but I think you're gonna have to leave school. I was in my second last year of school. I went.

[Jamie Laing]

And you were good in school?

[Jason Donovan]

I was okay. I was a good worker. I was a good worker. Always had work. Not really academic, but I had a good work ethic. But I had a good work ethic, so I always got through sporty math. I was shit at maths. Not really sporty because I was the Aussie rules. They're too fucking, you know, too blokey. And I was always with the. With the. With the. With the cricket. I was always scared of the hard ball. Do you know what I mean? Anyway, I. I went to the school to see whether I should leave school. And all the teachers unanimously said, go. Are you serious? This is an opportunity? Yeah. They all said, go. And I went to Dad, I said, what do I do? And dad said, don't do it turn it down. He said, it'll come around again. And I went, fuck. And I rang up the agent and I said, I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say no. And I said, no. Neighbours got launched at Channel 7 in Australia in about 1984. And. And it lasted six months. It crashed, it got axed. And I thought, well, I made the right decision, didn't I? Because if I'd gone on that journey, I wouldn't have gone back to school. And that was my dad's argument. Finish your 12 years of school, get it done, then you can do what you, you know, you can do whatever you want. So, you know, I'm coming up to my hsc, your A level, last year exams, it must have been July, August, I get a phone call from my agent saying, Neighbors has been recommissioned at a new network, Channel 10, and they want you to go and audition for a character called Scott Robinson. Would you be up front? I said, sure. And that's what I did. And I got the part. I literally walked from my last exam into what now is, you know, sort of thing, the rest of my life.

[Jamie Laing]

But that's the big thing, right? And for someone listening right now, right, you know, firstly, interesting that your dad said. Said, don't do it, right, that for most parents, especially in that acting world, your dad would have known how kind of fickle that industry is and how hard it is to get in there, right? He would have known that.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. But he was a tight ass and he just wanted me to finish the school, which is another argument. But, yeah, keep going. Because he's a bit of a tighter. Yeah, I love him. But.

[Jamie Laing]

But, but also, you know what I mean? It's like that power, saying no to things is so important. But someone who's listening right now, how do you know when saying no is the right thing? How do you know?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, one of my problems, Jamie, if I'm honest, you know, is in my career. I wish I would have said no to a few more things at pivotal moments. Really? Yeah, I do, you know, like what? I wish I would have taken a few more risks. No risk, no magic, you know, it's quite simple. You know, I wish I would have just, you know, in youth, particularly with success, what was happening. Kylie was really good at that, at just saying no. I don't want to do that. I don't want to pose in that T shirt. I don't want to pose in. I want. This is the way I want to look. This is the way I believe and, and particularly with music industry, they're all sheep. They just follow the fucking trends half the time until you break the mold. And then they go with you because. Oh my God. A revelation. You know, she, she was right. I, I think it's, it's one of the things I would probably say to my kids who are 24, 25, one of which is embarking on a career in, in acting is sometimes say no.

[Jamie Laing]

But that sort of ability to say no to that at that age, saying no to Neighbors and then it coming back around and you getting Scott as the, the role, that is just like, that's the world. That's serendipity. That's something aligning. Just going, here's your chance. Well done for saying no. We tested you now here you go.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, you know, I, I believe what comes around goes around. I mean, you know, I believe, I don't believe in luck. I think you create your own luck in life. I really believe that. But timing is everything. It's on our hands. It's in comedy, it's in what we're doing at the moment. You set a time at 2:30 today for me to be here and here I am. It's timing. It's all about timing and how you place yourself within those allotted minutes, hours, seconds, days, years, months, life that you have to create the best out of your life. You know, it's not always about success. You know, doesn't.

[Jamie Laing]

But Jay, when you did in that Neighbors thing, right, you, when, when you and Kylie got married on screen, it was watched BY I think 22 million people. That is like a raw wedding look.

[Jason Donovan]

I mean, it was a different era, you know, golden era of television. You know it. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, it's a long time ago, Jamie. For me, man, it was a long day. Long three days. It's funny how your life doesn't get defined by that moment, but I certainly own it, acknowledge it and very grateful for it, which is why we all went back to Neighbors to say goodbye. That sort of false ending that happened a few years ago. A lot of people don't like to recognize their past. Cause they're embarrassed about the fashion, the looks, the whole, you know, that was clean. I don't want to. No, man, that show. And it's indicative of the great characters and maybe a bit of the Aussie attitude and a shift in generation that sort of says no. We need to acknowledge what that did for all of us.

[Jamie Laing]

So you wouldn't change it.

[Jason Donovan]

What then?

[Jamie Laing]

Then you Wouldn't change.

[Jason Donovan]

Absolutely not. No. I probably change a few decisions I made afterwards, but not neighbors itself, you know.

[Jamie Laing]

But did you find it hard when you became that famous and then, you know.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. I mean, it's invasive, it's claustrophobic. You know, on Notting Hill, you know, when you've got 30 people on a corner outside Portobello Road, two houses up from you, for four years camped outside your house, and you're watching you go in and out of your house, it's sort of, you know, that becomes very strange.

[Jamie Laing]

That's what happened, Jason.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

You had people.

[Jason Donovan]

People camped outside the house.

[Jamie Laing]

It's sort of 30 people to get photos. Yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

I mean, you know, that wouldn't always be that big, but, you know, those were. That was an era where fans for me would, quite respectfully, though, I always felt, you know, keep a distance, but certainly be in my radar as I would go to Tom's. When it was down in Westbourne Grove. Was it scary coffee? Well, I mean, I, you know, I sort of exploded, as is quite well documented, you know, post the Palladium. And when that fame sort of started to happen again in 1990, unexpectedly, eight shows a week, I was trapped a little bit. I sort of. That's when I started to get into drugs quite a bit to sort of, you know, just escape.

[Sarah Gibson Tuttle]

You.

[Jamie Laing]

You experience this fame in neighbors. You. Then you're in the UK and you go and do Joseph and Technico Dreamcoat at the Palladium, and you're saying to me that you felt trapped and you're not happy.

[Jason Donovan]

I think I just overworked, you know, I've been going since 80, 85, 86, you know, and I'd kept pretty much on the. I kept pretty much focused, you know.

[Jamie Laing]

Because that work ethic within you keep going.

[Jason Donovan]

And again, that's exactly what I was talking about saying. No, but. But you've got to understand the context of. Of the decision to go into. Joseph was the right decision. Lloyd Webber, you know, myself, Tim Rice, you know, what the currency of theater and popular culture was running side by side at that point in the sense of, you know, Andrew just done Phantom, he just done Cats. You know, these were big pop stars. Huge. Not just songwriters and legends, you know, as they are now, but, you know, big pop stars. So a bit like Stockholm Waterman. You join forces with these people and it's sort of the perfect storm, really.

[Jamie Laing]

That collaboration was his biggest.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. And Joseph, for me, was that moment, you know, and ironically, not many pop stars I couldn't think Harry Styles would put on a loincloth and a technicolored coat and do eight shows a week. But because I came from an acting background, I'd done musicals, it felt like.

[Jamie Laing]

The right decision and it felt different.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. And it felt different also. Way of reinventing what I was doing, and it was the right move.

[Jamie Laing]

Were you trying to, can I ask, were you trying to change this Persona of being this person just from Neighbors, be like, I don't want to be Scott from Neighbors. I need to be something different?

[Jason Donovan]

No, no, no, no, not really. It was just. I was looking for something else other than just being a pop star. Stockade and Waterman, you know, for all those hits and the success we had, that story was starting to water down. Do you know what I mean? And it need, you know, everybody needs to reinvent in some ways. And that connection with myself and Andrew and Tim and the Palladium and that show was, you know, the perfect, perfect sort of story.

[Jamie Laing]

Get it? I get it. I get what you. That is, it's where you're. It's a great way of doing it. It's. Everything starts to water down. So then you go in, into the show. So it feels like a perfect storm to do. And you go into it, you're overworked, you're burnt out, you're tired, you're doing eight shows a week, you're earning this unbelievable football wage money.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

So you're thinking, I've got to do it. And you're basically just clinging on.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

In life. And then it all at some point just comes crashing down because you can't cling on anymore.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. And then I had a pretty weird sort of court case which you. You may or may not know about, that sort of took things in a bit of a. A different direction with Face magazine. Yeah. Yeah. That was a bit of a. An odd moment for me.

[Jamie Laing]

Face magazine wrote an article saying that they. That you were gay around that and you decided to fight them because you said, hang on a second, you're writing these things about me. And what's interesting about that is that you won the court case, but you didn't take any of the money.

[Jason Donovan]

Well, let's put it into context. You have to have it in context. It's the late 80s, it's the early 90s, you know, there is a group of militant campaigners outing, trying to out mostly politicians on both sides of the pond that were making legislation against gay rights, but not really, but. But hiding their own sexuality at the same Time. So this militant campaign was initially trying to expose this injustice, which seems sort of relatively fair as it. Well, it's, it's sort of fair if people are making laws against stuff and, and not representing their true beliefs. I mean, you've got to want to do that. You can't change. But I don't think it was getting the traction that they wanted. And so they switched to celebrities. It started in New York with Tom Selleck, Whitney Houston, Tom Cruise, and then came across to the uk. And at that time I was in Joseph Technicolored coat, the colors of lgbt. You know, I was blonde haired, blue eyed, good looking boy, palladium. And what they did was they strategically took a post, a picture of me in a white T shirt that I'd posed many years ago and superimposed on the front queer as Fuck out put this poster campaign, as they did to Tom Selleck and Whitney Houston, in strategic places in New York and LA where journalists would see the poster, go back to their desks and write about it. Same thing happened in the uk, But I was the poster boy for that campaign and I didn't pose with those pictures. I didn't pose with the words queer and fuck written on my T shirt out. But the face, the tabloids didn't, because they knew it was litigious. The face, in their bold, brazen, cool way, decided to report on this event. And at that point I think the rumors had sort of gone too far. I felt it was going too far and they didn't ask my opinion when they presented. They didn't ask me to add to the articles. I probably think they would have known my reaction and they printed instead. Now I, it was not the issue about homosexuality. I don't care if you're gay, straight, black, white, whatever the fuck. I don't get, you know, I've grown up in theater and I'm an actor and I'm. I'm. Love, baby, love. You know, the suggestion that I was lying about myself was where it came down to, I'm not lying about myself. I wasn't lying and it's not the way I choose, you know, I've no, you know, and that's where I went. No, that's not right, Jamie. Honestly, it's part of almost like my cv. Is it something I'm proud of to, you know, have done? Not really. Was it the decision I made? Yes, it was. You know, I was the chairman of the board. You know, I had, you know, as I've done Since I was 18, I've had to make decisions, you know, that some people at 45, 50, 60, 80 wouldn't have to make. And I've had to make decisions sometimes with no experience. No experience. And you'll find this with your kids, you'll find you're going to have to make some, some decisions that there's no real rulebook on. You know, maybe management wise, maybe we could have thought a little bit more about it. But I found myself in the high court in this moment and I had to go through with it and for the right intentions.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

But you know, and maybe in a way. Sorry just to just. Yeah, maybe in a way, as I found along that journey, I was actually speaking up for those people that didn't want to be outed, but that wanted to be who they wanted to be. They don't have to fucking. You don't have to be told you have to be something just because.

[Jamie Laing]

No, and it's. And do you know what is so interesting?

[Jason Donovan]

It's not right.

[Jamie Laing]

And you know what? When someone is making lies about you, whatever it is, it's not about anything in particular. When it's making lies about you, that is upsetting. But I also love the fact that you saying you're owning your mistakes and I think that's really strong, you know, and also I always think the hardest thing, right, the hardest thing about life is it's, it's a. Not a dress rehearsal. We're going at it, right? That's what we're doing. We're going at it and we're going to make mistakes along the way. But the mistakes that you were making is in front of the world. And so if you make mistakes or say the right thing or do the right, wrong or right thing or whatever it is, you kind of. Everyone has a, an opinion and that's tough. When you found drugs, like, why do you think drugs helped you at that point?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean, you're going to go back a little bit. I never drunk until I was in my 30s at all.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you not?

[Jason Donovan]

No, no, no. I didn't touch alcohol until my 30s because I watched my dad and I thought he was a fucking dick, you know, and, and because he was my dad and I was only lived with him and you know, dad, you know, didn't smoke weed or do anything like that. But I, I smoked weed from a young age and I always thought, oh, late teens, okay. You know, and I always thought I'd rather walk, walk into a room full of people stoned than I would a bunch of piss heads. Basically and particularly as I got famous, you know, there's nothing worse than drunk people. It's just a.

[Jamie Laing]

Because.

[Jason Donovan]

It'S just a nightmare. So, you know, and I know a lot of people say, you know, smoking weed doesn't necessarily move on to class A. Well, it did for me.

[iHerb Advertiser]

Did it?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. Sorry. It just did. And you know, success, you know, money and what had happened after Joseph Face, you know, I just wanted to crash out and go surfing and smoke weed and do all the other things that I hadn't had the chance to sort of do in my life.

[Jamie Laing]

So many people, right, who are going to be listening to this and maybe in that same place where they're binging.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And then finding the way to get out of it, right? And, and maybe like yourself, what happens is you start taking drugs recreationally. Like it's a bit of fun, right? You go out on the weekend, you start doing it, whatever. And then slowly by slowly, it's like this cat that creeps into your life and it gets. Especially with something like cocaine, right? It's like a cat that comes up next to you suddenly gets his claws into you and then suddenly, without even realizing, it's taken over your body and over your mind and over your ability to do anything thing.

[American Red Cross Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And I have, I have friends and people very close to me who've, who've gone through addiction and come out the other side. And addiction is a total disease, 100. And it takes over your brain and your body and your whole existence for a bit. And it's a cruel, cruel disease. I think.

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I think, you know, going back to getting out of that is. You've got to want to change yourself. You know, there are catalysts for change, you know, and to cut a long story short, for me it was, you know, the birth of my, my first child and meeting my wife, you know.

[Jamie Laing]

Really?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. I just knew that this was, that that was the get out clause I was waiting for. But even reversing back, you know, my, my drug take was, was more binge, binge, but long binges. Like what? Oh, three, four days, you know. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

No sleep.

[Jason Donovan]

Some days. Yeah. I think I went four days without sleep once. That's true. Yeah. I used to have seizures too. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Because there's a story of you in the Viper.

[Jason Donovan]

Viper Room. That's a true story.

[Jamie Laing]

Can you explain what happened?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean, it was, it was, it was Kate Moss's 21st birthday party and you know, I flew in from Australia and, you know, scored some, some cocaine and it was Pretty. Pretty good quality. And I mean, that's the truth, you know, And I, you know, got on it as. As they say, and that was two or three days before the event. You know, suddenly I found myself, you know, amongst all these, you know, very famous people and, you know, like, who was there? I mean, you know, it's your Christy Turlingtons and your Linda Evangelistas and your Michael Hutchins and Gloria Gaynor and, you know, it was a pretty Johnny Depp. And, you know, it was that time and I just found myself overheating, shall we say, you know, and ended up on the. On the floor as Michael and Johnny were singing Gloria G L O R I Gloria. And then this sort of, you know, soap star from Australia who'd been sort of on a bender for two days, suddenly finds himself in a stretcher with the room closed down and the lights gone up. Jamie. Nothing. Nothing to be proud of.

[Jamie Laing]

Nothing.

[Jason Donovan]

I'm telling you right now, for all those people watching it, absolutely nothing embarrassing.

[Jamie Laing]

You know, through the roof.

[Jason Donovan]

Through the roof. Embarrassing. You know, it's just. Oh, you know.

[Jamie Laing]

But did you nearly die?

[Jason Donovan]

I don't know whether I. I can't remember, but I got back on it straight away. Oh, my God.

[Jamie Laing]

Because you had no care for your own health.

[Jason Donovan]

No filter.

[Jamie Laing]

No filter. Nothing.

[Jason Donovan]

No. And I had the money and the ability to. To do what I wanted to do. And also what I could do as well was, you know, if I wasn't liking what I was seeing in one country, I just get on a plane and fly somewhere else. Wow. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you know what?

[Jason Donovan]

Just that's. That's the freedom. That is the freedom of. Of success.

[Jamie Laing]

It's a curse.

[Jason Donovan]

And fame.

[Jamie Laing]

Because what happens, I imagine, right, is that when you have that money and that freedom, people go. That's all we want. That's whatever. I want that fame and I want that freedom and I want that cash. But actually that become. You get lonely and you don't have a purpose. And so then you have to spend your time filling it with something that either you find a great hobby or you go down a route which is not going to be healthy.

[Jason Donovan]

I got vilified in the 90s for announcing on a news show once that, you know, why did I take drugs? And I said, because I like them. Which was the truth. I, at the time, because I read.

[Jamie Laing]

That, and I think you said this in your sort of. That period of your life, you were consuming sort of three grams of cocaine a day, right. And you were kind of just authorized. You had the freedom and the ability to do it. You say you meet your wife, your kid is born. What is that moment that you suddenly go, I'm not doing this? Because what is that eureka moment? And how do you get through that?

[Jason Donovan]

Can I just say, with regards to the three grams a day. Sure. You know, there were. There were days, weekends that would begin on Thursday and, you know, sometimes not until the following Tuesday or whatever. But it was a binge. It's not sort of like a. I wouldn't say like a heroin type of situation. That's just sort of quite consistent, you know, your body has to shut down, particularly with something like cocaine at some point. I also would argue, and I will say I also kept working a lot, so work enabled me to switch off.

[Jamie Laing]

How did you balance?

[Jason Donovan]

I just. I just did.

[Jamie Laing]

You could just do it?

[Jason Donovan]

I could just do that. You know, that's. I'm quite disciplined. I'm quite a. I'm a bit of a, you know, all or nothing type of guy, you know, I also kept very fit. I have done all my life. And. And that's the little. The little thing that knocks on your door. Just go to the gym, have a steam, have a swim. You walk out and you've. You've done your big three day or something, and you walk out and you feel great and you go see Jason. That's what you can feel like if you don't get back on it again. Now you feel great for two days and then. Then that little demon in your head would come along and go, come on, let's. Let's do a cheeky one.

[Jamie Laing]

Let's blow it all up again.

[Jason Donovan]

Let's blow it all up again.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you.

[Jason Donovan]

And that's the problem. That was the problem, you know. But to go back to your point about changing, the catalyst of change was that, you know, I was the cat chasing its own tail. I was listening to so much bullshit from, you know, nightclubs and stories and Browns and China White and bloody, you know, all those clubs, Met bars and, you know, coming back to mine and getting on it and seeing the sunrise, playing table tennis, you know, in my muse house, you know, like, do you know what I mean? On one, it just becomes boring. It becomes fucking boring. Talking about yourself and chasing your own tail and, you know, the paranoia, particularly with cocaine, starts to set in.

[Jamie Laing]

In what ways?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, you know, 24 hours into something like that, you think, you know, there's the MI5 are outside your window. Do you know what I mean? And also you start to do it on your Your own, which is a trap as well.

[Jamie Laing]

And then you don't even realize that.

[Jason Donovan]

That'S happening, and it just catches up. So the good news is, the good news is I now know what I don't want to do and haven't done that for 20, 25 years. Congratulations. The catalyst for change was meeting my wife. She didn't change me, but the time that time changed me. The birth of Gemma, the realization that I could get out now, I was still in my 30s, you know, enough time for the body to repair. Do you know what I mean? There's enough time to get back. Time I hadn't blown out, you know, I hadn't. Was quite good with money, you know, I didn't blow all of that away, you know, I was quite good. Good like that. Still am.

[Jamie Laing]

But how was your mindset? Were you anxious? Ever? Were you ever depressed? Were you ever. Because it feels like. And the times that I've met you, right, you, You. You're so, like, generous with your time. You're very kind with your time. And I said, you know, even before we even knew each other, you would come up to me and say, hey, how you doing? Love what you're doing. You. You're kind of. You're kind of a supporter of people without even really knowing them, which was really nice to see. And you feel like a lover of life.

[Jason Donovan]

Tony. I got my dreams came true when I. I was 20, 21. Without a handbook, how to discover and navigate my way through what was happening to me. I built that tree, those roots, those foundations for a good life. I managed to burn some of the twigs and the leaves and along the way, but I believe I've still got some great foundations and maybe a bit of the Aussie, maybe the fact that I was in a TV series, Not a pop star who believed, you know, his own hype the whole time. Do you know what I mean? I didn't write my own songs. Bummer. But so, you know, I've always had my feet on the ground. So even when I went through my blowout period, I could never really sit in my bed after a bender and wake up and go, I've lost everything. It's just terrible because I didn't, you.

[Jamie Laing]

Know, know I really hit that rock bottom.

[Jason Donovan]

No, I didn't hit that rock bottom. That's why when someone said to, you know, you were out of control. What are you doing? I said, I'm just. I'm having my. Yeah, sort of teenage years in the public, you know, and. And. And driving up the coast in my VW combi, you know, smoking weed and just having a great time, but the world's looking at me. But how do I try working that one out?

[Jamie Laing]

Oh my God. How did the, how did the world find out that was happening?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean, it was on the front page of most papers.

[Jamie Laing]

Was it really?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, you know, yeah, it was pretty. Pretty.

[Jamie Laing]

And that didn't worry you? Embarrass you? Upset you, scare you? Nothing?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I just, you know, sort of just.

[Jamie Laing]

You didn't care?

[Jason Donovan]

Didn't really care. I just sort of. I put in the work and I was like, okay, I'll just go back and go out and have a good time and forget about it, you know. Also, I got into this notion and this is an interesting one. I thought for a long time I wasn't cool. Now I've never been cool. I don't really give a fuck whether I am or not. There is no such thing as being cool. So going back to the Palladium, when I was talking about the amount of money I was earning sitting there in a white fluffy loincloth with shoes, earning this extortionate amount of money at an incredible height. And to a lot of my parents and people at the time, they were like, this is amazing, Amazing. You're looking. You were working with Lloyd Webber. You know, I wanted to be a cool, grungy sort of pop star. This was when, this is when nirvana were just coming out, you know, And I was, I was this cheesy sort of what I thought, a cheesy little pop star from the 80s scene. Especially for you and I, you know, it's.

[Jamie Laing]

And you didn't want to be that.

[Jason Donovan]

And I sort of didn't want to be that Peter Pan and blonde haired, blue eyed kid. And so I, I tried to really screw up the canvas without actually thinking, you know, a little bit about what I was doing. And it's only ironic in life and in time and as a, as a person, a male, when you start to grow a few lines and you start to look a little bit like you've grown into yourself that actually you realize that the drugs, the nightclubs, London 90s is all, it's all bullshit, you know, I mean, you need to get to work and you know, that Palladium moment was fucking cool, man.

[Jamie Laing]

Maybe someone right now is listening and saying, I don't think I found my true self. Or maybe I'm in a relationship or a business or a job or a life that I feel like I'm not living my true Self. What would you say to that person? How do you find your true self?

[Jason Donovan]

Fuck. That's a tough question. Jesus Christ. Fuck. How do you find your true self?

[Jamie Laing]

Because you found it. You accepted the fact that you were like even. You wanted to be cool. You wanted to be a nirvana. You wanted to be in a band, but you.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, you know, I always wanted to be the lead singer of a rock band. How do you find your true self?

[Jamie Laing]

How do you accept this?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, for me, you know, for me it's about nature and nurture, purpose, and I can only just go back to a bit of purity and, you know. You know, when we take substances, we're sort of, you know, putting a band aid on pain a little bit. And I've never had. I've never had psychiatrist, so.

[Jamie Laing]

So you've never been to therapy?

[Jason Donovan]

Never really been. You've never done that? No, no, because I've just gone out and gone for a swim or gone for a bike ride. Do you know what I mean? And also in my life, I've had journalists talk. You'd sit here and talk. I'm talking to you now. I'm learning more about myself just by. I'm not saying you're a journalist, but I'm talking it out.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

And I don't have any ambitions to not.

[Jamie Laing]

Hang on. You've never spoken it out to anyone.

[American Red Cross Advertiser]

I have.

[Jason Donovan]

I have, but I. But I was, you know, and I remember there's a couple of high profile people that said, listen, you need fucking help. And there's someone in Harley street and you go to Harley street and there's this guy sitting there in a Versace fucking outfit going, what the fuck do you know about what I'm going through?

[Jamie Laing]

Because you didn't trust me.

[Jason Donovan]

Maybe I didn't find the right people, you know, maybe I never found the right people because I was Jason Donovan, you know, and, you know, these sort of high profile, you know, therapists, you know, I'd rather go to someone in a, you know, a town hall and sit down and have a, you know.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you do that?

[Jason Donovan]

No. I didn't either. I don't know. No, I, I just. I. I guess I was just, just, just, just lucky, you know, that I. I embraced the moment when it needed to happen before it became, you know, too much of a story. Yeah. I nipped it in the bud at the right. At the right time and, you know, Ange and I, it's no secret, weren't together. When Gemma was born, she wrote a letter to me saying I'm gonna have this child and I know you're not gonna take that very well. And I was at my house and I didn't have any other options, but I couldn't be half a parent. Wow. That's the thing in my life, I'm either in or not. And I, and I'm, I'm clear in my vision and my life to know what I want and what I don't want. And I wanted that enough to go right. This is the moment you step up. This is the moment you, you, you know, you see the sunshine, you clear the clouds a little bit. This is, this is it.

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[Jamie Laing]

Back in the day, when you were sort of, I would say, at that peak of fame, right when it was the 80s, the 90s, the early 2000s, right when it was just madness. People must have taken your words out of context the whole time. Everything you did, you. There was nothing long form, it was quite bite sized. You do interviews and stuff like that. That must have been tricky. Probably made you not want to do pressure or speak to people because everything was taken out of context. Or was it not?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I think the thing you've got to understand about the press is they're only interested in two things. When you're up and when you're down and when you're in the middle, it doesn't really make for great conversation. I've spent a lot of my life recently in the middle ground, which is very, you know, which I'm very, very content about. You know, success is a funny sort of thing. And how you process what was happening to me in the 80s and early 90s, at the age of 21, 22, 23, 24. I mean, that's a whole psychological analysis. And then the sort of the falling off the cliff moment for me, particularly in the 90s press. Yeah, I mean, you look, it's always been a necessary part of what we do, you know, and I think there are people that, going back to that era, you could pretty well trust. You know, for me, neighbours, being an actor, you know, playing the character of Scott and then Charlene and then Kylie and myself, which was sort of art imitating, imitating life. Life imitating art.

[Jamie Laing]

Explain that to me. What do you mean by that for anyone who doesn't.

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean, look, you know, it's no secret that now it's no secret that Kylie and I were in a relationship. I mean, that didn't initially start. But if you go back, the history between her and I, we played brother and sister in a TV show when we were in, you know, 1112 and then met on the set of Neighbors in 1987. And I don't know whether we were actually initially destined to become this on screen romance, but that's just sort of how it worked out. And then the relationship sort of blossomed. You know, we never openly went out and told anyone that we were going out because we felt that we had to have an element of privacy to ourselves, you know, but it was sort of an unwritten rule that people sort of knew, but they didn't. It was a. It was a game. It was a sort of a game.

[Jamie Laing]

But I explained that to you. What do you mean by the game? Because it's. I know what you mean.

[Jason Donovan]

It is a little bit. You want.

[Jamie Laing]

You want them to have a little bit, but then you don't want them to have everything.

[Jason Donovan]

So also, you know, as a male, maybe there's an element of, you know, I mean, I don't know whether I agree with this now that the fact that you're, you know, single or you're not going out with someone or makes you more, you know, in fans world, accessible or there's an opportunity. I don't know. Do you know what I mean?

[iHerb Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

It's sort of what came first.

[Jamie Laing]

Was it the real relationship or the fictional one with you and Cody?

[Jason Donovan]

The fictional one.

[Jamie Laing]

Did it really?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That didn't really sort of blossom straight away until I think we were filming in Sydney. I mean, if you want to be really specific about it.

[Jamie Laing]

Oh yeah, I like that. You can give me Jason. I want everything. I want you of your life.

[Jason Donovan]

There was a story about us in a Travelodge and actually I think it's sort of pretty true, you know, on the North Shore. But you know, that whole time and that, you know, neighbours and, you know, the pressure, the not pressure, I mean, it was, you know, and her career particularly was sort of started to really take off in the musical sense and with Kylie, really interesting because she, you know, she started out as this sort of rough mechanic on Neighbors. Yeah, Permaid, sort of tomboy, like Carrot and just sort of blossomed, you know, it was. It was a phenomenal thing to watch. And then came Locomotion, the single, which really complemented, you know, her public Persona outside of Neighbours and just gave a reinvention of her. So I, you know, initially I think it was probably more her chasing me and then I think it sort of. It sort of flipped a little bit.

[Jamie Laing]

Were you in love? Were you in love with Kylie?

[Jason Donovan]

I think so, yeah. I think so, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, that was my first.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, I get it.

[Jason Donovan]

That was. That was my first profile. It was. Well, not the profile. Wasn't that. That's.

[Jamie Laing]

It's a lot to handle.

[Jason Donovan]

That's all. That's all. But it's, you know, our connection and what we shared was. On another level, mate. On another level. But imagine all that happens for four years of your life. You live art imitating life. You become these people that are possessed. Not possessed, but Sort of owned by the world. Your relationship is owned by the world. And then you split up and, you know, that was tough. That was a really tough, tough time.

[Jamie Laing]

Heartbroken.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, the circumstances. You, you know, you know, she went out with Michael Hutchins after me. That was a pretty tough old time. But then for the rest of your life, when you're on Instagram or, you know, I mean, imagine even someone like Ange.

[Jamie Laing]

I know it's hard.

[Jason Donovan]

Can you imagine that? I know, I know. Can you imagine when people just. All they talk about is the wedding and yet. Hold a second. I've spent 30 years with this man, or do you know what I mean? And I don't think for one amazing woman. Yeah, that's what I. That's what I want to pay tribute to that. When you talk about love and people and. But can you imagine just, you know, that gets pushed in your face all the time and has done for how long? This is pre Instagram, you know, there's tape is television, you know, because they.

[Jamie Laing]

Think it's a scoops. They just want it.

[Jason Donovan]

They want it. Every time I get into a cab now is, how's Kylie?

[Jamie Laing]

Are you serious?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, I'm serious. You know, I mean, it's that iconic, man. It's, it's. That's how to a generation, you know, it still happens and I'm at peace with it. It's all cool, but it's, it's, it's.

[Jamie Laing]

And how does Angie take that?

[Jason Donovan]

She think initially it was pretty. Pretty hard. I mean, I hope she doesn't mind me saying that.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. Because I could imagine, you know, that.

[Jason Donovan]

That is a big. A big thing to get your head around. But I think, you know, we've proven in time that, you know, it's, you.

[Jamie Laing]

Know, you have bumps in the road and things are said and you just. Yeah, I get it.

[Jason Donovan]

We're 25 years in. Let's go. You know, that says it all to me, you know, and she is my best friend and, you know, the love of my life.

[Jamie Laing]

Where did you. Where did you meet Ange?

[Jason Donovan]

Ange and I. She was a stage manager on the Rocky Horror Show, 1998. Sort of in the peak of that mad, crazy time, you know, and we were sort of, you know, pretty mad together at times. But, yeah, we.

[Jamie Laing]

What kind of love was it? Or is it. But was it at the beginning?

[Jason Donovan]

It's something that just grew, which is, I think, been part of the true relationships in my life, if I'm absolute honest, anything that's too quick and full on. Tends to. Doesn't have the meaning, you know, and that's something. I'm only talking to you now, actually thinking about it is probably the truth.

[Jamie Laing]

Because we think that fire and that excitement when it's like this, it's like this, but actually that then fizzes out and you go like, well, that was exciting and fun and dramatic and everything. But it was quick. And it's those ones that you. I look at with Sophie and I.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, I know, because you. With, with. With your.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, so you.

[Jason Donovan]

With the show. With the show as well, though. And I remember that. That in your book, when you had to. You were sort of confessing to her on. On a bench, if I remember. Is that correct?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, that. I just. I said, look, I. Yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

And you were like, oh, fuck, what am I saying?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, and it was weird. And I was so addicted to. I thought like a real relationship was one where you had to fight and argue. It's like fireworks all the time. And I'm leaving. Okay, you leave. It was all like that.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And with Sophie, it wasn't like that. It was actually karma.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And it grew. And the love just grows and grows and grows and grows. And then you go, not just love, respect. And you grow your friendship and everything just starts. It's like a sponge soaking up like an espresso. Yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

It's like a macchiat or a cortado. It's like a low tide cortado. Is she younger or younger? Younger. How much?

[Jamie Laing]

Five years.

[Jason Donovan]

Five years. Okay. How is Angela's? A little bit about the same, actually. Listen, it's about best mates. It's about authenticity, you know, we're a team.

[Jamie Laing]

Are you doing a tour next year? 2026, baby.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. Well, we got. We got 30 dates out this year and. And it went well. And then as I said to you before, it's up to me to either press a button or not press a button. And everyone's going, look, we could do another 14. I'm going, oh, that sounds. That sounds quite cheeky. Little sprinkle. Let's have a little encore, shall we? Let's just, let's just add a little bit more. And you know, the show, you know, a lot of my stuff's quite nostalgic and personal, but that's sort of. That's where we're gonna do bunch of cities that we didn't do this year.

[Jamie Laing]

Would you love it when you're on stage?

[Jason Donovan]

I like, I like, I like performing. I like the adrenaline. I like the instant feedback. Yeah. And I think, do you know what? I think I've got better at it in my older age. I'm more comfortable, more confident, I'm a better singer. You know, that's another thing I struggled a lot with, particularly in the 80s with success, was that I had all these hits yet, you know, the overdubs were left, right and centre in the songs. I struggled. You watch people like Kylie in the studio that just picked up things like, like that. You know, I really struggled with music, but it, it mystified me because I wanted to be a pop star. Maybe I was in a way.

[Jamie Laing]

You sold 13 million albums.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it was, it was, yeah, but I, I think it, that was, you know, I, I, I, I, yeah, I was doing something right.

[Jamie Laing]

Can I ask you a thing about. This is just a slight tangent, but because you were so good looking, right, and you were such an icon and so those kind of things, as you get older, right, we typically lines start to form, maybe our hair starts to go. Was that an issue at any point?

[Jason Donovan]

Well, I mean I, I, I lost my hair in my, I started to see that happening in the 90s, which I would argue was one of the reasons also why I probably started to go downhill a little bit. I was starting to see the aging process happening. And you're right, you know, I was always known as the blonde haired, blue eyed kid. I remember once someone ringing me up once in my muse house and this nervous voice on the phone saying, look, I'm so and so from a production company. And we've had this idea, I've got your number from so and so. I'm like, yeah. He said, we've got this idea, we'd really like to do a documentary on famous people losing their hair, going bald. He said, I said, get fucked. This was probably about 1996. Fuck off. Why would I want to do that? And then I was watching, you know, it's funny, I was watching the other day, I'm a celeb, which I did in 2006, or seven or eight, something like that. And I really did see I was losing my hair. But then I think I did my first transplant in2010.

[Jamie Laing]

When were you, when were you honest about it?

[Jason Donovan]

Because I've never, I've never been dishonest, okay? But what I have been is it's not something I'm gonna go out and publicize, is it? Not like, I mean, God bless him, Shane Warne, our beautiful bowler who's up there looking down Great guy. Shane, you know, really embraced it with a company called Advanced Hair. He's the face of it. He became a face of it as as many celebrities had. I didn't feel the need to do that, you know, but I got. I was. I was sort of really right at the sharp end of. Of it. And it was such a. When it happened, man, I couldn't believe how good it. Just my confidence, everything.

[Jamie Laing]

It's amazing.

[Jason Donovan]

Everything. And I got it at the right time. I've always thought with hair transplants, the technology is relatively the same. Yeah. It's the person that puts it in.

[Jamie Laing]

Because they need to be an artist. Yeah. They need to be an artist.

[Jason Donovan]

Correct.

[Jamie Laing]

They need to be an artist.

[Jason Donovan]

I always said to the lady I went to in Paris, you know, in 2009, I. I said. I said. She handed me a pen and said, where do you want your hairline to be? I said, don't give me a pen. I'll probably do a. Do a. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

I want to.

[Jason Donovan]

Darn it.

[Jamie Laing]

I want so much. I want to look like Chewbacca or.

[Jason Donovan]

The guy from the Muppet.

[Jamie Laing]

But do you know what is interesting about this thing, right? Is this. Is that as guy, I've had it done, so I had to put my head up.

[Jason Donovan]

I sort of figured that.

[Jamie Laing]

But for me.

[Jason Donovan]

Don'T know how to take that.

[Jamie Laing]

Thank you.

[Jason Donovan]

In a great way.

[Jamie Laing]

But my thing is this, right. My thing is, for some reason, as guys, we feel it's tricky to talk about our looks. The fact they may go. The fact that we care about aging or balding or our height or whatever it is. Women are typically much more open about their insecurities because perhaps they have their friends or their colleagues or their partners or husbands. They have. They feel like they. They're not as ashamed about it for some reason. Yes, there's shame that 100.

[Jason Donovan]

But they.

[Jamie Laing]

They can voice it. Men, we don't voice it so much, so it's an internal shame. So then when we start to talk about it, it feels like we want to vomit. So we don't actually. So we push the.

[Jason Donovan]

Just.

[Jamie Laing]

We go back and we keep it inside. So as we don't talk about it because we feel that being vain is a weakness. And I think that's why. And I'm even struggling to, like, work it out now. Why did I find it so hard for so long to say about my hair transport? The insecurities I had or the insecurity I had about weight or whatever it was, you know, like, so many things, being conscious of our bodies and our image doesn't feel like a very masculine thing. So we deny ourselves from being able to talk about it.

[Jason Donovan]

It. I think I agree. I'm just trying to think about women and men and how we all age in different ways too. But I'm also trying to contextualize it in the sense of when in 2025. It's not such a big deal.

[Jamie Laing]

And it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal.

[Jason Donovan]

It's not a big deal.

[Jamie Laing]

And I think we've come so far. Right. And we can talk about it and I think there is an open space to do it. But if you go back 15, 20.

[Jason Donovan]

30 years ago, of course, you know. Of course you know, I think, yeah. I've always find for me as a male, you know, the older I've got, the more lines, the more you know, the better you learn, the more interesting I feel. And, and I think, I don't know about women, but I think that's the, the male journey. Yeah. In a way is that sort of, I now feel I felt like the blonde haired, blue eyed, good looking guy was a bit of a hindrance for a while really with me. And, and because you certainly had to.

[Jamie Laing]

Keep it as well.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. Maybe. Or just that that as an actor you're not, you're not unless you, you look fucked up. You're not, do you know what I mean? Unless you look, you're not versatile, you can't deliver the good and you're not.

[Jamie Laing]

Taken seriously because you're just a good looking one.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. And there's prejudice towards that. There is real prejudice towards that. I've always found being famous as, as a male and, and blonde haired, blue eyed, there's a lot of prejudice there too, you know. You know, I, I, I get shouted at from scaffolds.

[Jamie Laing]

You do?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, I wish I was. Do you know what I mean? It's like, hey Jace, you know? Do you know what I mean? I felt, felt like, I felt like it's a role reversal in a way.

[Jamie Laing]

As, as objectified in a way.

[Jason Donovan]

Correct. Exactly the word objectified.

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[Jamie Laing]

Man, can I just say this has been fun.

[Jason Donovan]

World class.

[Jamie Laing]

Listen, we like to end the conversation with eight questions. Are you ready for this? Yeah. What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

[Jason Donovan]

The biggest fear is fear itself.

[Jamie Laing]

Love that. Best compliment anyone's ever given you.

[Jason Donovan]

That you're authentic.

[Jamie Laing]

That's great. The best compliment you can be given from anyone. What scares you most about yourself?

[Jason Donovan]

My ocd.

[Jamie Laing]

How bad is it? Bad in what ways?

[Jason Donovan]

It's getting worse.

[Jamie Laing]

Is it really?

[Jason Donovan]

Oh, it's terrible. I can't. It takes me like even leaving the house today took me an extra 10 minutes.

[Jamie Laing]

Light switches.

[Jason Donovan]

Light switches. Doors. Doors is bad. I'll go back three or four times. I'm now Onto the gas hob. I'm checking taps because I think the place is gonna flood. It comes out of anxiety and fear and responsibility. Cause you know, if you didn't have it, you just walk out of your hut and go for a surf.

[Jamie Laing]

Have you always had it?

[Jason Donovan]

No, it's got worse.

[iHerb Advertiser]

Really?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, really bad.

[Jamie Laing]

Jason, what do you think? What do you think triggered it?

[Jason Donovan]

I need help.

[Jamie Laing]

Really?

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, I do need help. And my daughter said, you know, everyone said, I need help.

[Jamie Laing]

Why won't you go and speak about it?

[Jason Donovan]

I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm gonna do that in, in the next, the next hour.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you promise me you're going to talk to someone?

[Jason Donovan]

I, I, I, I am, mate. I, I see, I am.

[Jamie Laing]

So next time I see you, I.

[Jason Donovan]

Have, you know, I'll be like.

[Jamie Laing]

Cause it's one of these things, right?

[Jason Donovan]

Have you got, Is it, is it, is it? I had it for a bit, right?

[Jamie Laing]

I had it for a bit leading up to my wedding. I had, and I obviously had serious anxiety and mine wasn't as crippling as that, but it got to a point where I, I had one day where, where I had a mayonnaise pot and I couldn't find a position in the fridge to put it in. And I just, and I was like, what? I couldn't find a place in the fridge because it wouldn't fit. Oh, I didn't like it there. It didn't look neat. And I was, in my head, I was, I was like, well, hang on a second. What, what is going on here? And it was just like, if I, if I didn't find a place for it that was going to fit, all I was going to do is think about it. It was going to consume my thoughts.

[Jason Donovan]

Is that not perfectionism?

[Jamie Laing]

Rather than, I don't know, maybe a form of ocd? I don't know what it was, but it was, it was something. But I had also a friend who used to do light switches before. And they'd have to leave the house 30 minutes before. He said it took him 28 minutes in the morning.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

To get out of the house because he was checking light switches on and off.

[Jason Donovan]

There's a Jack Nicholson film about this called as Good As It Gets, which is all about that. It's bad, mate, and I recognize it. And part of thing about these problems is knowing you've got the problem. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

When was the last time you cried?

[Jason Donovan]

I watched the Caroline Flack documentary last night that really, we talk about a lot about fame you know, here. And you know, just because you're in the public eye and just because you have things that people may think other people don't have, does not mean you are not vulnerable to anxieties and insecurities and doubting yourself. And through her life, we saw what can happen. And that really, really hit home and made me upset.

[Jamie Laing]

100%. What's something you can't let go of?

[Jason Donovan]

My hair. Good one.

[Jamie Laing]

I think I'm the same.

[Jason Donovan]

That's good. I'm so happy for you.

[Jamie Laing]

What's your guilty pleasure?

[Jason Donovan]

My guilty pleasure is long lunches. Long. Long lunches with some wine. Long lunches with wine.

[Jamie Laing]

Have you ever tried Kylie's rose?

[Jason Donovan]

I have.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you like it?

[Jason Donovan]

It's good.

[Jamie Laing]

It's good.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah, it is really good. She sent me a few bottles. Did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, man. I'm. I'm. I'm. Yeah, great. Love Rose. Long lunches are long lunches with a couple of vinos. Fucking great, man. And then a little snooze in the afternoon and then maybe go, okay, let's go. Let's go again. And then everyone's like, God, have you got a problem? Fuck, here we go. The world's a circle, not a square.

[Jamie Laing]

What turns you off?

[Jason Donovan]

A messy house. Yeah, I'm a big, you know, cleaner. I love. I just. I'm not. I'm not, like, it has to be, you know, spotless, but I like to walk in and see the canvas clean. I just don't. I don't want.

[Jamie Laing]

I'm with you, by the way.

[Jason Donovan]

You know, I like to start the day with my bed made and. And it just looking nice. And then when I come home, I. I feel, you know, biggest.

[Jamie Laing]

Biggest advice I ever got from someone. When I was going through that process of, like, understanding myself for more was they. My, like, ADHD and stuff was off the chain. They said you got to do the little things. Right. Put the keys back in the pot. Hang your jacket up. Make your bed in the morning. Do that. Do the little things. Keep everything tidy and the big things will fall into place.

[Jason Donovan]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

You have a tidy place. The other stuff will.

[Jason Donovan]

Stuff tends to 100%.

[Jamie Laing]

What turns you on?

[Jason Donovan]

What turns me on? What turns me on? What turns me on turns me on.

[Jamie Laing]

Chase has gone. He's gone. Too many things.

[Jason Donovan]

Have you got. Have you got. Have you got what turns me off? A dirty house. What turns me on? A clean out. Let's just. Let's do the. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And Jack Nicholson movies.

[Jason Donovan]

Yes. And Jack Nicholson movies.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you like most about yourself?

[Jason Donovan]

My work ethic and my. Maybe my ability to talk to anyone. I like to think I'm a man of the people, really, you know. Yeah. With an extraordinary life that I've had so far.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, you got a lot.

[Jason Donovan]

So hopefully there's a bit more to go. My dad 90, but let's see, there's.

[Jamie Laing]

A lot of time left. Bonus one.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

You've got an option. You can do your favorite swear word, favorite lyric you've ever sung, favorite Joseph song.

[Jason Donovan]

Favorite swear.

[Jamie Laing]

Let's do all three.

[Jason Donovan]

Okay.

[Jamie Laing]

Favorite swear word. You can say it if you want.

[Jason Donovan]

I mean, cunt really is probably the word.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, there you go.

[Jason Donovan]

And do you know what? It's such a chunky word. Cunt. It really just Australian.

[Jamie Laing]

It works.

[Jason Donovan]

And I talked about this to an actress once many years ago. She's really good. And she was like, you gotta own cunt. You've just got to fucking own it. Get it out, you know? It's chunky. It's. It's got depth. It's like a steak. It's like a good wagyu burger. You just want to bite in and juice it up. Oh, fuck.

[Jamie Laing]

Favorite lyric you've ever sung.

[Jason Donovan]

Shit. Favorite lyric I've ever sung. If dreams or wings, you know, I would have flown to you. That's from. Especially for you. That's pretty dull, but it's quite a nice lyric. It's quite. It's quite a. It's quite a nice lyric. If dreams were wings, you know, I would have flown to you. That's quite a good lyric. I'm only saying that because it's the only one I can think of, but it's a. It's a decent lyric.

[Jamie Laing]

Favorite Joseph song. None of them.

[Jason Donovan]

No. I love.

[Jamie Laing]

I love.

[Jason Donovan]

I look handsome. I look smart. I am a walking work of art. Do you know. Do you know the score? Do you know. You know. You know Joseph?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, I know Joseph. I was taken as a kid.

[Jason Donovan]

Were you?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Donovan]

Fuck. Great.

[Jamie Laing]

Love it.

[Jason Donovan]

Love it.

[Jamie Laing]

Jason.

[Jason Donovan]

Thanks. That was cool.

[Jamie Laing]

Unbelievable.

[Jason Donovan]

Yeah. Really good. Good fun.

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[Jamie Laing]

Espanol Parle italiano if you've used Babbel.

[Jason Donovan]

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