KATE GARRAWAY: I'm No Longer Afraid To Seek Joy & Love After Losing My Husband

Summary

Podcast Summary: Great Company with Jamie Laing

Episode: KATE GARRAWAY: I'm No Longer Afraid To Seek Joy & Love After Losing My Husband
Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Jamie Laing
Guest: Kate Garraway
Production: Jampot Productions

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Episode Overview

This emotional and uplifting episode of Great Company features broadcaster and documentary maker Kate Garraway. In a deeply candid conversation with Jamie Laing, Kate opens up about her journey through grief after losing her husband, Derek Draper, to long-term effects of COVID-19. The discussion traverses topics of resilience, joy after loss, caregiving, how grief changes relationships, and embracing life’s unpredictability. Kate’s openness offers solidarity and insight for anyone dealing with grief or immense life upheaval.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Joy and Challenge of Celebrity Traitors (04:52–11:53)

• Kate discusses her experience on Celebrity Traitors, highlighting how it allowed her to reconnect with playfulness and relinquish control after years of serious caregiving and parental responsibility.
  • “It was like a license to play…for so long I’ve been having to manage life or death…and the children…and then with work and everything. So…a lot that has to be quite serious and challenging. But when you go into something like [Traitors], you hand over all control.” (05:27–05:55, Kate)
• She appreciated the sense of community viewers found in watching the show, and recounted forming friendships with the diverse celebrity cast, emphasizing the unexpected joy in moments of connection.
• Discusses why she may not project confidence despite her role as a journalist, revealing a vulnerability in social situations and highlighting the difference between professional and personal personas.

2. Upbringing, Family, and Security (11:53–19:58)

• Kate grew up in Abingdon, Oxfordshire, in a stable, loving home; her parents’ sense of security shaped her emotionally, something she’s acutely aware her own children lost after their father’s illness and death.
  • “The greatest gift my parents gave me…is that I always had a sense it would be all right… Sadly Derek and I can't give [that] to our children…” (14:23–15:28, Kate)
• She reflects on her “rebellious period” surprisingly happening in her 30s post-divorce, rather than as a teenager, and stresses how curiosity—not rebellion—has always driven her.

3. Meeting Derek Draper and Relationship Insights (19:58–32:09)

• Kate shares the comedic and poignant story of meeting Derek, with early impressions, his complex personality, and the development of their relationship.
  • “He was very intriguing… a brilliant mix… understanding people and also bombast and colour as well.” (25:11–25:43, Kate)
• She discusses how her upbringing made her fearful of conflict in relationships and how a breakthrough with Derek helped her realize arguments do not equal abandonment:
  • “He said, ‘No, no, no, you’re allowed to get cross with somebody and tell them what you feel… you have to tell me stuff’… and so that was my version of your calm.” (27:51–28:56, Kate)

4. Derek’s Illness, Becoming a Carer, and Grief (34:06–53:43)

• Kate recounts, often with raw emotion, the initial shock when Derek fell ill at the start of the pandemic, the harrowing early weeks, and the revelation that COVID could lead to a prolonged state of disability rather than a binary outcome.
  • “I was told it's live or die. He got into the ambulance and said, 'you're definitely going to see me again.' I didn't know that…the Derek in the form that got into the ambulance, I wouldn't see again.” (34:26–35:03, Kate)
• She speaks about the strain and isolation of caregiving, the financial and emotional toll, and the peculiar privilege and pain of losing her husband slowly.
  • On missing Derek before his illness: “This year…I think I’ve had the chance… to start really missing the Derek before 2020… it’s been nice to remember some of the other things pre-damage…” (38:47–39:54, Kate)
• Describes being present and able to say goodbye:
  • “I absolutely had the chance to say everything. And we had a moment when we were on our own in the hospital room… I was lucky enough to be there for the last 48 hours until he finally did pass away…” (41:23–45:24, Kate)

5. Documenting Derek’s Journey and Advocating for Carers (46:35–51:37)

• Kate explains the origins of her documentaries about Derek, why she fought for editorial control, and the importance of candidly portraying the realities of care and grief for others in similar situations.
• Launches “Sharing Life,” an online community for carers, where people can share stories, advice, and support each other in a safe, non-toxic environment.
  • “Often it’s the sort of message from a stranger who's lived the experience that…fills a hole that the experts can't.” (49:36–50:53, Kate)

6. Advice for Those Dealing with Grief (52:16–53:43)

• Kate’s advice: grief is not linear, don’t fear laughter, nor is joy disloyal; allow yourself happiness.
  • “Don’t be afraid to seek out joy, don’t be afraid to laugh. But also know that just 'cause you’ve had a great day doesn’t mean to say the next one won’t be hard. And that’s the journey.” (52:23–53:43, Kate)

7. The Power and Perils of the Mind & Perspective on Happiness (55:41–63:02)

• Discusses how the brain is built for survival—a flight or fight “computer”—and needs to be consciously reprogrammed to seek joy and happiness.
  • “Your brain is a survival computer…It doesn't give a damn about our happiness, doesn’t give a damn about our joy. It's programmed to make us survive. So we see danger on adrenaline shock…” (60:31–61:16, Kate)
• Shares tools for reframing negative thoughts and emphasizes “programming for joy.”

8. Looking Forward: New Love and Openness to Life (63:02–64:21)

• Kate’s not ruling out love in the future, but admits she isn’t ready yet and is “old school” in how she meets people.
  • “I wouldn’t like to think that I never had romantic love in my life ever again. I think that would be rather a sad way to go through life, wouldn’t it?” (63:12–63:38, Kate)

9. Rapid Fire (‘Eight Questions’) (66:42–76:56)

Jamie asks Kate a series of personal and lively “quick fire” questions, revealing topics from her favorite saying (“Seize the moment”), her British guilty pleasure (chocolate and tea), hoarding habits, what turns her on/off, and her favorite swear word (“bugger”)—all with warmth and humor.

• “I give out a lot of love, but people are lovely to me as well, so I’m very lucky.” (76:07–76:12, Kate)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Never wait to say I love you. Never wait to say anything…you just don’t know where the last moment is.” (45:07, Kate)
• “I always felt incredibly lucky, incredibly lucky that I had that five years [caring for Derek].” (34:56, Kate)
• "Don’t be afraid to seek out joy…not being scared to smile and laugh, that’s not disloyalty.” (52:23, Kate)
• “The brain is the galaxy that we really need to explore.” (69:37, Kate)
• On grief: “It will feel differently on different days…just ‘cause you’ve had a great day doesn’t mean the next one won’t be hard. That’s the journey.” (53:43, Kate)
• On the realities of caregiving and loss: “There are people doing it. Millions of them every day. Millions of them every day. And they’re not lucky enough to be talking to you about it.” (46:30, Kate)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [04:52] – Releasing playfulness through Celebrity Traitors
• [14:23] – Security of upbringing and parental influence
• [19:58] – Meeting Derek Draper: origins and chemistry
• [27:51] – Relationship conflicts and feeling safe
• [34:06] – The onset of Derek’s illness
• [41:23] – Being present for Derek’s final moments
• [46:35] – The financial and emotional toll of prolonged illness
• [49:36] – The Sharing Life community
• [52:16] – Advice for those grieving
• [60:31] – “Your brain is a survival computer”: reframing perspective
• [63:02] – Dating and new love after loss
• [66:42] – Rapid-fire personal questions

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Tone & Takeaways

Throughout the episode, Kate’s tone is warm, honest, sometimes vulnerable, but always striving toward hope, humor, and connection. Her message to listeners coping with loss is one of self-compassion and embracing joy without guilt. The conversation is a heartfelt invitation to see resilience not as mere survival, but as a way to actively seek joy and meaning even in dark times.

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Links and Resources

• The Sharing Life (Kate’s new community platform for carers and those in grief): [Link will be in show notes.]
• Kate Garraway’s Documentaries: Details available on her social media and ITV.

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If you are struggling with grief or need support as a carer, Kate and Jamie invite you to connect with the community at Sharing Life and reach out for support—no one should face these challenges alone.

Transcript

[Kate Garraway]

Coming up in this episode of Great Company.

[Jamie Laing]

When Derek, your husband, fell ill, did you know it was going to be as serious?

[Kate Garraway]

I was told it's live or die. He got into the ambulance and said, you're definitely going to see me again. I didn't know that. Actually, the Derek in the form that got into the ambulance, I wouldn't see again.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you get to say everything you wanted to say?

[Kate Garraway]

Hi, I'm Kate Garraway and I'm in Great Company. I'm Kate Garraway.

[Jamie Laing]

Welcome to the Microph.

[Kate Garraway]

Flabbergasting.

[Jamie Laing]

What were you like as a kid? Did you have a rebellious period?

[Kate Garraway]

I think it was in my 30s. I started going to festivals and hanging out with musicians. My parents managed to give me the idea that things would always be okay. My children don't feel that you must stay at home.

[Jamie Laing]

COVID 19 can be characterized as a pandemic.

[Kate Garraway]

I knew it was bad because people were dying there, hundreds of thousands. He was very quickly into a coma. He just looked like he was really struggling to breathe. And I said to him, I'm never gonna give up. I will keep going until you go.

[Jamie Laing]

Your husband falling ill and then he passes away. And they don't see everything else. The butterfly effect financially, the struggle and the strain and the pressure.

[Kate Garraway]

I haven't cried enough. Probably Jamie.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay, anyone listening now who is dealing also with grief? What would you say to them?

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[Jamie Laing]

Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Laing and this is great company. Guys, welcome back. Super excited to have you back. Just a quick one before we start. I said every single time and I just would like to ask it again if you could possibly subscribe to our show. It's completely free. It takes one second to do and it does us so many things. I cannot tell you. Keeps allowing us to get the guests that we want. Keep making the show that you guys like to watch. So if you can do that for us, that would be amazing. We have Kate Garraway on the show today. Kate is a broadcaster, She's a documentary maker. She was recently on the Traitors. We go into so many different things about death, grief, how her husband died from COVID traitors and so much more. It's one to not miss. I know you're gonna love it. So sit back and enjoy this episode. Of Great Company with Kate Garraway.

[Kate Garraway]

Hi, I'm Kate Garraway and I'm in Great company.

[Jamie Laing]

You won Traitors.

[Kate Garraway]

Oh, my God. I know. What an experience.

[Jamie Laing]

You were fantastic.

[Kate Garraway]

You were as what, Jamie, is my question.

[Jamie Laing]

Just as. Just as just everything. You were just. You were kind of, in a weird sort of way, a bit of the glue throughout. Yeah, I think you were kind of the glue. And I never watched Traitors until the celebrity version and I was hooked. It was just such amazing tv. And you said on it, it feels like the first time that you could play again.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah, it was like a license to play. So having been having to be for so long and sort of literally managing for a long time, Derek's life or death and then the children and then else, and then with work and everything, there's a lot of that has to be quite serious and quite challenging. But when you go into something like celebrity traces, you'd hand over all control. So they wouldn't even tell you whether it's day or night. Obviously you haven't got access to Internet or whatever.

[Jamie Laing]

Were you good at that? It's only relinquishing all control.

[Kate Garraway]

No, I can't. I tried, but I also just jumped into it. I thought, you can't fight this. And that's when you suddenly think, yeah, I'm gonna release the child. Be silly, play. And so. And what a group of people to be in with. I mean, who wouldn't want to hang out with that gang? So it was great fun. It was a chance to play. And I was also very aware that I am lucky. So lucky in life generally, but very lucky in the fact that to be given the chance to that. And I think that's why so many people really love this series, because it was two things. I think it was one thing, just a chance to watch something that's a great game that you can kind of play along with. Even though when you're watching it, you do know who the traitors are, which is quite a help. But, you know, you go along with it. Go along with it. But also, didn't it feel like a weird sense of old school community again?

[Jamie Laing]

Yes, 100%. Which we're craving, aren't we?

[Kate Garraway]

We're craving that people are saying, I'm gonna run because I wanna catch traitors tonight. Cause you didn't wanna risk missing it because it would be ruined on social media or something.

[Jamie Laing]

You know, it's the beginning, I sort of hope, in a very, very small way of that families, friends, communities coming together to Watch something because it was so exciting. And we realized that we want to almost be fed something that we can all sit and communicate over because it's exciting. Did you watch Traits? It's like, oh, my God, don't tell me. I want it.

[Kate Garraway]

It's hilarious. And you had something to do, and everybody had a theory, and you got things to talk about other than football. It was just. It just felt like a lovely thing, and I'm so lucky to be part of it. And the great thing about Celebrity Traitors is because it was done in the spring, I could then almost be a part of that joy. Even though I knew what happened because I was watching along at the time and I was watching each episode and saying, oh, you did put that in. But you didn't put that in, so it's great.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you make any unexpected friends?

[Kate Garraway]

Oh, I mean, I'd like to think they're all my friends. I'm not sure they are. They probably heartily sick of me. I don't know if they were unexpected, because I think you'd all want to be friends with all of them, wouldn't you? Yeah. I mean, who wants to listen to Stephen Fry? I mean, I felt like every sentence I was becoming better educated. Cause I didn't go to Radley College. I went to Fitzharris School Comprehensive. But, yeah, but no, every sentence was great. Cat. Oh, my God. Extraordinary. Such a musician. Somebody. I definitely wouldn't hang out with any of the Waterlight. Alan, obviously. Ridiculous. Celia Emery. I mean, it's bonkers. Joe M. Who I have met before and I've interviewed him before, but you know, what a different energy when you're spending consistent time. Nick, Mohammed. I'm gonna not name somebody. Cause there wasn't a single person in Paloma Faith that I love. My God, I love Paloma. I love Nico.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, Nico.

[Kate Garraway]

The nice thing that my kids were excited about was Nico.

[Jamie Laing]

We love Nico. We love Nico.

[Kate Garraway]

Just brilliant. Yeah. I love Paloma as well. And she and I, we're, you know, we're all friends. We're all still in touch as far as, like, well, they're all still in touch with me. I don't know. I can't speak to each other.

[Jamie Laing]

But also, you were such a good sport. Because there was a moment where people were sort of saying within it, like, you're not making a comment. You're not. You're sitting.

[Kate Garraway]

They always say, why are you not coming to the table saying, I know it's you. I was like, well, why are you coming to the Table saying I know it's you. And part of that was. Cause they all thought it was me. Every single round table until the one which is the last round table. Cause it was different in the final, the last round table, they all thought it was me. So I survived what, eight round tables and that was it for the ninth. But the final episode I wasn't in. But they, yeah, they all thought from day one it was me. Now I now of course know that it was a traitor stirring it. But a lot of it wasn't actually a lot of it wasn't being stirred by them. A lot of it people just thought why are you so curious? Why are you asking questions? And that's when it was quite a psychological. Then it became psychological as well because they were very, they were very different people and it wasn't their nature to do that. Even the other faithfuls. So do you think, would you say.

[Jamie Laing]

You'Re a confident person?

[Kate Garraway]

No, I don't think I am very confident at all actually. I think I'm very confident. I think.

[Jamie Laing]

But you're a journalist and you're. So when you have to have those hard conversations, you can. Cause I'm interested in this.

[Kate Garraway]

Is that confidence though? Is that confidence or is that being interested? See, I think it takes a lot of confidence to stand on your own inner room in silence and not care that people are uncomfortable. Whereas I instantly same.

[Jamie Laing]

I would be the same, yeah, talk, talk, talk.

[Kate Garraway]

I couldn't just stand there and say so you end up talking out of thing or inquiring or chatting. I don't know that I'm very confident. No, I mean, maybe.

[Jamie Laing]

Cause it's interesting the way, the reason I ask that is because in your sort of everyday role, right, when you're being a journalist, you have to have to ask questions that most people go, oh my God, God, you're asking these hard questions. And it's almost like when you're put into a role in order to do something, you can play the role and you can go, right, I'm in that at the moment. But then when it goes back, which I'm like in certain other situations, I'm such like a people person that I would hate to make people feel like they're.

[Kate Garraway]

But I guess it's the way you wait, you hope it's the way you ask it, isn't it? And in round the round table I was asking questions, they were just either lying or not answering them. So, you know, which I guess is the game to be fair. Now also the other thing is people were coming out at me, you know, because it was the nature of the game. And I think you have two choices then, don't you? You either laugh about it or you get really upset. And I just knew that it was the game. So I was kind of laughing at myself, Lo. Everybody was laughing at me, including me. And that's not a bad way to go through life, I don't think.

[Jamie Laing]

Where did you grow up?

[Kate Garraway]

A place called Abingdon in Oxfordshire. My parents still live in the same house, which is fantastic.

[Jamie Laing]

I went to Radley School, which is.

[Kate Garraway]

Me too. It's so close. I know Radley School really well. It was Radley School and Abington School were the boys competition, weren't they? Abingdon School, of course, produced Radioheads. So I don't know what you guys did.

[Jamie Laing]

Not much. We produced Andy Strauss at Cricketers. That's literally it.

[Kate Garraway]

It's a nice part of the world, actually. It's amazing to grow up. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Because you grew up slower. I grew up much slower.

[Kate Garraway]

Gosh. Yes. Instead of my kids. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What were you like as a kid? Were you serious? Playful.

[Kate Garraway]

Good question. I think I was. I was. I think I was very lucky, really. I was definitely a very hard worker. I didn't have any particular talents. None of this will be a surprise, but I always kind of jumped in to do stuff. I ended up doing quite well, you know, in a way. My mum was a teacher. My dad worked the civil service. That sort of. Not rich, but, you know, I learned to play instruments. I went off and was in orchestra and band and did sport and I did stuff. But nobody ever said she should go for the Olympics or. Nobody ever said this or that. So I just kind of threw myself into anything. I did think a lot. I've always thought too much.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you paint things up easy?

[Kate Garraway]

Kind of. I also talked quite a lot. I mean, it was weird. My parents are wonderful hoarders. I say wonderful now cause they're gradually processing it through and there's so many reports which says Catherine. Cause of course, I was Catherine at school. Catherine is a huge pleasure to teach how I do feel if she spent a little more time listening and a little less time entertaining the class, things would go a little better. So there was obviously. I must have been a bit of a. You know, there must have been an element of that. But yeah, it was a nice. I was very lucky. I do feel I won the kind of ovarian lottery in my parents, really, because we weren't rich. We went on camping, holidays, but I never felt a sense of real danger. I was thinking about this the other day. I always. And I've still been given this by my parents. I always felt that things were going to be okay. And that's because my parents managed to give me the idea that things would always be okay.

[Jamie Laing]

Amazing.

[Kate Garraway]

And I'm very aware that Darcy and Billy, my children, don't feel that. I see it, particularly in my son. Because when you're a kid, the worst thing that can happen to you, I think. Well, not the worst thing that can happen to you. Cause we know horrific things happen to children everywhere. But in your head, losing a parent is one of the worst things. So when their dad got sick and then subsequently passed away, they definitely feel like if I say it'll be fine, they go, you can't say that, Mum. You can't say that. So I think the greatest gift my parents gave me. That I only realize now that I see that, sadly Derek and I can't give to our children, is that I always had a sense it would be all right. You know, we got to the campsite late at night. They were struggling to put off the tent. It was just funny. I never worried that the tent wasn't gonna be okay. Cause my parents would sort it out. And I feel a lot of children don't feel that about life anymore. Not just whatever their parents do. They might not have lost a parent. I feel like there's a weird sense that things aren't gonna be okay. That I was so lucky not to have growing up.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. Okay. I was saying this before. I felt like everything was gonna be okay. My name was sewn into my jumper. I knew my mom would pick me up from school. I knew that my toothbrush was gonna be there. I didn't think anything was gonna happen to them ever. You know, always okay.

[Kate Garraway]

It's gonna be all right. And, you know, we might not have. I never got the sense. And I'm sure my mum heavily budgeted, but it never occurred to me that there wouldn't be something to eat.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Garraway]

You know what I mean?

[Jamie Laing]

Never in a million years.

[Kate Garraway]

And so that sort of baseline of security, I think, is a massive thing for emotional health, isn't it? And I think we're very lucky to have had that. Because I think there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of kids that don't grow up, you know?

[Jamie Laing]

Were you close with your parents?

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah, really close. Really close. Didn't mean to say. I told them everything. I become very well.

[Jamie Laing]

What were you doing in Charter's nightclub?

[Kate Garraway]

They didn't need to know that. Whereas my Darcy was always saying a Darcy. My eldest daughter, particularly tells me everything.

[Jamie Laing]

But that's amazing. You have that.

[Kate Garraway]

I love it.

[Jamie Laing]

Yes.

[Kate Garraway]

And then sometimes I have to say, ooh, okay, okay. That's very. But I love that and I really encourage that. I've really encouraged that. And so did Derek, particularly. Cause he felt that sometimes his parents live slightly different lives. And I, looking back, I probably did like, you know. And obviously we don't know mobile phones. So I said I was going to stay with my friend Dan. He didn't really know what I was doing as long as I got home safely.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you have a rebellious period?

[Kate Garraway]

I don't. Well, I think it was in my 30s. Get out of here.

[Jamie Laing]

Get out of here. Really? What were we doing in our 30s?

[Kate Garraway]

Well, I.

[Jamie Laing]

You gotta tell us everything. Come on.

[Kate Garraway]

I've been married before and before Derek and I got divorced. And I had a weird kind of second adolescence where I started going to festivals and hanging out with musicians, which is so much fun. I mean, it obviously couldn't last. I had to grow up. So it wasn't anything rebellious. I don't. I mean, I don't think that's rebellion, but. No, I didn't really have a rebellious. I mean, I did have a rebellious face in the sense I discussed extreme politics and things like that, but I never felt the need. And I was. I think I'm lucky I never to storm the barricades, emotionally or physically. I think I'm too sort of like, oh. Also, I think actually being really curious means that you sort of think, oh, that's intriguing. I'll go and look at it. But you don't feel the need to punch, do you want.

[Jamie Laing]

It's so funny. My mum, right. So my mum got divorced as well. And she then she got divorced in her late 30s. And then to her 40s was her time to be rebellious. And she said, my mom's very open with everything. And she won't mind me saying this. She said, you know, before that she was, you know, my mum didn't drink, she never smoked. She hadn't really had sex with anyone. And then what if you hadn't really.

[Kate Garraway]

It's a bit like being slightly murdered.

[Jamie Laing]

She wasn't promiscuous, I think. Okay. And then in her 40s, she honestly goes like, I couldn't give a shit. I was just like, whatever, we gonna have a lot of fun. Cause she suddenly realized that she had been. She'd held herself back for so long, not just in life. You know, she went to Amsterdam and said, like, I smoked weed. You know, I did all the things that I hadn't done.

[Kate Garraway]

I can't obviously condone that kind of favor, Jamie. I'll have to have a word with your mother about that.

[Jamie Laing]

But it is. But when you go. I suppose what I'm asking is when you go through something like a divorce, like a. You suddenly realize, okay, wait, life is. Wait, hang on a second. What do I do?

[Kate Garraway]

What did you do? Yeah. And I guess, I suppose as I try to. So flight or fight, following Derek's passing away last year, I suppose I'm hoping that there will be an element of that now for me next. You know what I mean? That there will be a chance to. I mean, I may not go hang out backstage at Glastonbury because I'd look a little bit odd, but I think you look great. Thank you, Jane. God bless you. But I think. And actually, maybe that's one of the joys of being lucky enough to grow older, because, I mean, I always joke about the fact I'm so old because I'm surrounded by television and radio, very young kids who aren't actually that young. But actually, that's one of the great joys of being allowed to grow older if you don't lose your life and have something go wrong, because you actually have a chance to experience lots of stages, don't you? And shouldn't feel scared of it, really.

[Jamie Laing]

Where and when did you meet Derek?

[Kate Garraway]

Okay, so Derek was introduced to me by a girl called Gloria DiPiero. And in the old GMTV studios, they had the newsroom on the third floor, and the studios were on the fourth floor. And they'd constructed a staircase that went out of the building and back in. In this tall tower covered in glass, and it faced towards St Paul's Cathedral, this window. And we came out one day. I think I just got to the point, by the way of thinking, I can't spend my life hanging around ridiculous with young musicians. I've got to sort myself out. And as we came through the door to go down to the studio, she said, young musicians. I do a terrible accent, but I'd give it a go. Oh, my God. You and Derek Draper. I'm having an epiphany. I'm having an epiphany. And at that point, the sun rose over St. Paul's it was positively biblical. And I went, okay, who's Derek Draper? And she said, perfect, because he did have quite a reputation. The fact that I'd never heard of him was really useful to her. So. And then later she organized drinks at Claridge's. Lovely hotel.

[Jamie Laing]

Lovely hotel.

[Kate Garraway]

Lovely hotel. One of my favorites. Very special now, especially because of this lovely hotel, for a whole group of people. Told Derek that this was to arrange to meet me. He'd just come back from university, retraining as a psychologist in California, with. Back in London setting up his practice, rang to meet me. And so he'd Googled what he thought was me, and it was actually weather presenter Andrea. Andrea Maclean. And she's gorgeous. He was terribly excited about this blind day. Anyway, I went, not knowing it had been set up, chatting away, lots of drinks. Lovely. And then Gloria went over to Derek and said, what do you think of Kate? And he said, well, she's not showed up. And he said, well, she's over there. And he went, that's not Kate. Anyway, they looked at their phones and he realized he was horribly disappointed. But then we did end up talking and got. I liked him instantly and then.

[Jamie Laing]

Why did you like him instantly?

[Kate Garraway]

He was very intriguing. He was very interesting. Very intriguing. He also. Actually, because he'd been through a rough time and had his own breakdown, I thought he still had quite sad eyes. I thought, there's lots going on. Very loud, very chatty, very gregarious. But he was very interesting. And a friend had just broken up with a boyfriend, and he was sort of talking to her about that. And it was so interesting what he was saying. I thought, okay, yeah. And by this point, Gloria said, by the way, that's the person I mentioned. I was like, oh, right. So I was thinking, okay, I see why Gloria think we'd be a good fit.

[Jamie Laing]

Well, that's interesting. Cause that's interesting you say about the eye. Cause the eyes portray what the soul feels.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Really does. And I always look at people's eyes as well when I'm, like, trying to think. You can sort of see and feel what they. And I'm always interested when you see a story behind someone's eyes.

[Kate Garraway]

Exactly.

[Jamie Laing]

I get intrigued by that as well.

[Kate Garraway]

I thought, there's a story there. This is interesting. I then, having talked to him, I said. He said, oh, do you know anything about me? And I said, I don't, actually. And I said, oh, I'm gonna Google you, though. And he said, please don't. I said, no, I am now it's too late. But yes. So that's how we initially met. And then he. A couple of weeks went by and he'd left a couple of messages, but I couldn't hear them. He was outside. I mean he's utterly hopeless. But he arranged to meet and then he called me on the day Jamie, on the day when I was blow dried fake tan, just putting on the double spanx, right. To say I'm gonna have to cancel this because something's come up. And I was like, okay, sure. And he said, I forgotten I'm supposed to be serving cheese and wine at the amateur watercolor exhib at my local church and having seen some of the escapades, you know, politically and known as Groucho Derrick and all those things.

[Jamie Laing]

Groucho Derrick, yeah. So he was wild.

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Yeah.

[Kate Garraway]

Oh yeah. But also. But also. But wild. And then actually you realize very, very safe and kind, weirdly.

[Jamie Laing]

But anyway, because Groucho is famous. Famous Groucho Club. Famous club where the Oasis used to hang out and everyone.

[Kate Garraway]

Because he used to. He was there sort of in part of the team along with Campbell Massively and Peter Manderson in the run up to the 97 election. There was a whole. Anyway, his story is a different podcast. But he. So anyway, he said it's come up. And I thought, well, this must be some kind of test, this must be a joke because you don't meet somebody. Do you encounter a cheese of wine or just it seems so incongruous. So he said, but if you were interested you could come along. So his church is St. Mary's in Primrose Hill that he went to where he lived. And so he. So I said okay. So I turned up thinking, this is gonna be a windup, there'll be a car, we're gonna. Or helicopter to Paris. Clearly, clearly something, something, something's gonna change. But no, there he was in a hand knitted pink jumper serving cheesy wine to the elderly congregation.

[Jamie Laing]

So I was like, oh, this is actually happening. This is actually.

[Kate Garraway]

First thought was I wish I hadn't wor. It's a cobbled floor. And second thought was this is not gonna be dull. And it was a brilliant mix with Derek of absolute sort of, well, very clever, really getting people, understanding people and also, you know, just sort of bombast and color as well. So yeah, that was the first test. And he just said, I don't know why you think that's odd for years to come, but he obviously did. No, it was odd. And so, yeah, that's where we went for that.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you really fancy him?

[Kate Garraway]

Yes, but I wouldn't now. I mean I would say this in front of him. I wouldn't necessarily. I mean, I Wouldn't have picked him off a dating site. It's definitely something, but I've never really.

[Jamie Laing]

Who would you have picked off a dating site?

[Kate Garraway]

Obviously Brad Pitt.

[Jamie Laing]

I mean, obviously Brad Pitt. Obviously.

[Kate Garraway]

What's wrong with you, Jamie? That's not even a question you ask. But, you know. Or many others. But. Yeah, but don't you find, though? I mean, you're a very handsome young man. I'm old enough to be. So I can say that without reproach, I hope. But, you know. But actually, don't you find, though, that it's not really. Don't you find that. I do think that. And it's not me that invented this, but I can't remember who said that great beauty is just like great disfigurement in a way that you don't notice either after a while. Particularly if the person isn't appealing in other ways. Do you know what I mean?

[Jamie Laing]

One million percent, Without a doubt. And I think. I sort of think now, relationship. I see it from my relationships. I used to think in relationships where if they were fiery and dramatic and this and that, and I was everything. I thought that's what a relationship was. But actually, it's exhausting. It's exhausting.

[Kate Garraway]

It's absolutely exhausting. And all you're living off is the adrenaline, aren't you?

[Jamie Laing]

Really, Completely.

[Kate Garraway]

You're loving the adrenaline hit. But it's just.

[Jamie Laing]

And then when I started dating Sophie, my wife, and it was very exciting and things like that, but then Sophie. And I was so in love with her, but everything was quite calm, and I thought that was boring at the beginning. I thought, well, I must be in a boring relationship, right? And then I quickly realized, no, actually being calm and still and just generally just happy and not dramatic and not this and not screaming down the street to one another, even though we have done that, it made me go, oh, wait, hang on a second. This is what a relationship should be. And she was my best friend. She was wonderful. It was wonderful. Yeah, it was amazing.

[Kate Garraway]

Whereas I sort of had the opposite experience with Derek. And I wonder what your parents are like. But it's not interviewing you, but my parents, I don't think I've ever heard them row. I've heard them be concerned, but I've never heard.

[Jamie Laing]

Never ever heard them row.

[Kate Garraway]

Okay. So I was quite fearful of conflict in a relationship. Not necessarily in the workplace, either in a war zone or anything else, but I was fearful. It felt quite unsafe to me because my parents had been together all their lives. So it felt very Unsafe to me that when there was a row, and I remember a breakthrough moment with Derek was. He was really cross with me. There was something. I was late and I was untidy. I don't know if this can't, you can't possibly imagine that those things would be something, my dear. Routine, somebody. Yeah, exactly. But anyway. And he was really cross and I was like. And then I was like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. And he was like, yeah, anyway, where are we going to eat? And I was like, oh. And he said, no, no, no, you're allowed to get cross with somebody and tell them what you feel. And he said, and you must do that to me. I'm, you know, you're, you, you have to tell me stuff. And I was like, oh, so you're go full blown arguments and it doesn't mean the end. Cause everybody I'd ever got out with, I'd always finish with me. And I was like, you're gonna have an argument, you can discuss it and it's end. And so that was my version of your car.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow. And must've been a huge breakthrough moment.

[Kate Garraway]

Oh yeah, it was. It's like, oh God, I'm actually being held here.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you know what that is? So you are the second person again. I don't know why I've never referenced my mum so much, but I was only in Carl because I probably am.

[Kate Garraway]

The same age as her.

[Jamie Laing]

But we were talking, talking about relationships, right? And my mum remarried my stepfather, right? And my stepfather's quite like remarried, so she divorced my dad and then remarried to my stepfather.

[Kate Garraway]

Felt like that was a whole journey that we needed to explore.

[Jamie Laing]

But she said to me, which was so interesting, she said she. Because I was talking about arguments in relation to you arguing. She said she used to be very passive, didn't want to argue as well, so worried about the fear of them just running away. But with Jonathan, my stepfather, she argued. She suddenly he pushed, push, push and she blew up, right? And he sat there and went.

[Kate Garraway]

And she probably thought, I've ruined it, I've ruined it.

[Jamie Laing]

And he went, well done, you spoke your mind, great, let's go for dinner. And for her again, the same thing.

[Kate Garraway]

It was a breakthrough. It was a breakthrough moment.

[Jamie Laing]

People don't run. You are allowed to voice your opinions.

[Kate Garraway]

And you're not gonna be abandoned.

[Jamie Laing]

But where does that abandonment come from? If your parents were just so you're content in your family, so then you have that worry about abandonment.

[Kate Garraway]

I don't know. I don't know really, because I never felt abandoned by. I can't put it there. Other than one person apart from Derek passing away, which I don't think we can hold him responsible for. Everybody is always finished with me. And so. And I realized what I would do is try and fix and try and fix and try and fix and try and fix and try and fix and try and, and fix. And it must have been so infuriating rather than just never really looking and thinking, actually this is so not working for me. I'm just gonna try and make it work until eventually the person was just like, this is working. And it is almost like. It's also probably rather a cruel thing to do actually. Cause you almost not cruel, but it's not a very grown up thing to do because you're pushing the decision to break up onto someone else else. But then that feeds it, I don't know.

[Jamie Laing]

And then you become first.

[Kate Garraway]

But it was a breakthrough, a breakthrough.

[Jamie Laing]

With him because I think so many people listening, right? And they'll be thinking about relationships, right? I know there are so many people right now who are going, I'm staying in this relationship cause I'm trying to fix it, I'm trying to make it work. And sometimes we just have to go.

[Kate Garraway]

I can't make it work. It's not my fault.

[Jamie Laing]

And it's not my fault. And stepping away and being like, okay, yeah.

[Kate Garraway]

And there could be a, you know, and if you're somebody that's interested in people, there could be a whole set of explanations of why that person's behaving that way. But just cause you understand why they're behaving that way doesn't mean that you have to fix it or that you need to be there to tolerate it. And I think sometimes I kind of being very interested in the way people's minds work and often having solutions to things, was trying to solve it. But actually it's like, no, actually that's just the side that, that that's their journey and you know, and deal with it that way.

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[Kate Garraway]

Do I am.

[Jamie Laing]

You have done three just incredible documentaries about Derek.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And I imagine you have said this story over in your head and over to other people and just everything. But I just know there are so many people now who are listening who just would like to hear from your own words. When Derek fell ill, did you know it was going to be as serious?

[Kate Garraway]

So he was unwell and taken into hospital right back to the very beginning of COVID before we had obviously before we had vaccinations, but also before we even had easy tests. So it was in that really first phase, just before lockdown, the very first lockdown. And so yeah, I knew it was bad because people were dying now, hundreds of thousands, you know what I mean? From COVID And so that was absolutely a flight or fight situation.

[Jamie Laing]

So you weren't thinking. Cause I imagine and I don't, I think in my head I'd go, well it's Gonna be fine. Why wouldn't it be fine? Of course it's gonna be fine.

[Kate Garraway]

Well, I thought, it won't happen to him. Yes, of course. But then I also thought, why wouldn't it? You know, why am I special? Why am I special? Not to deal with what mothers, fathers, sons, you know, daughters all over the country are having to deal with. So. And also I was told it's live or die. And so I went into solution mode and adrenaline mode and. Right, let's do everything we can. Everything we can. Because he was very quickly into a coma after being into hospital. I guess what I didn't realize was, is that. And I don't think anybody did at the time, so I thought Covid, and I think we all approach Covid at the time as binary. You either lived or died. And it was so horrific because so many were dying before they could even get to hospital. And there was no medicine. There was not even ways to mitigate it at that point. So the medical profession did everything they could with a brand new virus that was a killer. But I thought it was binary. What became extraordinary to manage is that when he began to come out, when they tried to bring him out of the coma, sort of eight to 10 months later, he suddenly couldn't. And we realized there was a third option, which is Covid either killed you or people came back to work feeling exhausted and a bit down, but otherwise fine. But actually, life would be changed forever and you still lived. So I don't think people. Because we all thought it was about the lungs, didn't we had a cough, cold, lung. It was acute respiratory rate killing people. What we didn't understand in 2020 was that it's inflammation that runs through your body. So liver, kidneys, lungs, brain, every cell, skin, everything was damaged by the virus and to a greater or less grief. We now know it now because we know there are people, millions of people with long Covid. Sometimes they just feel a little bit out of breath, or sometimes they feel they have credible fatigue. And some people are in wheelchairs and not walking still. And they contact me all the time. So that I didn't know when he got into the ambulance and said, you're definitely gonna see me again. I didn't know that. Actually, the Derek in the form that got into the ambulance, I wouldn't see again. And obviously neither did he. But actually, so much of Derek came back. We always felt incredibly fortunate that I had the trouble to be a carer and to care for him. It's a wonderful, wonderful honor. It's tough as heck for both of us involved and obviously family and his parents and all people that loved him. But actually I always felt incredibly lucky, incredibly lucky that I had that five years. And actually at the point when he passed away, he was doing better than he ever had. He'd nine days before just got up and walked and was speaking better than before. But the damage, the doctor said the end, what they call end organ damage. So the key organ damage was so great that despite the incredible life force having even after that final heart attack though he still came back and was able to hear. He couldn't speak after that, but was able to hear and respond to us by squeezing our hands. And it was a big life for us. And I hope that's a comfort to the children because they definitely saw, which I think was true, that he wanted to be around for his family, wider family and smaller family. I hope that's a comfort that it was not his choice not to be with them, you know.

[Jamie Laing]

So heartbreaking to still lose him even after he feels like he was recovering.

[Kate Garraway]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. And also the strange thing is last year I was again in the adrenaline mode. Definitely really very focused on the children. Very focused on what do we do next. Very focused on the huge debts that are accrued or let's not set cart start on the care system but it is carers rights day again coming up and you know, anyway, let's not start on it. So very focused on financially getting the family on its feet. And strangely this year I've really, I think had the chance. I'm going to look at it that way rather than regret it to start really missing the derrick before 2020 because everything was really about finding a new love between us in the state he was in that it's been nice to remember some of the other things pre damage, I think. So that's the sort. And it makes me much sadder than last year in a way because I haven't got the life sort of the padding of adrenaline. But also I think it's probably really good to be able to celebrate.

[Jamie Laing]

Firstly, thank you honestly for sharing because there is something when you lose somebody slowly.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah. And especially it's something I think there's lots of things.

[Jamie Laing]

Something harder almost sometimes I don't and I don't want to say that because.

[Kate Garraway]

The weird thing is is that it's strange because I don't think there was. We didn't know the end of the story and I often wonder if that was better or worse. I think it was better that we didn't. Because every day felt like there was a chance to get better. And we were told by the medical profession that he wasn't gonna get worse, that this was the worst it was gonna be, and we could see improvements. So I wonder if that is wonderful. I think that is a gift. Whereas I think sometimes some might say. And I've had friends and relatives that have died of things where, you know the end of the story and you're fighting against it and. And you're prolonging the time, but maybe there is some peace in that preparation. I don't think there's a better or worse, really. I think it's just everybody listening to you will have something in their life that's like that. And life is just. It is, to quote Roland Keating, a rollercoaster. Jamie, if I can be flippant. But it isn't it, though. And we enjoy. We have to just enjoy all the little things along the way as well as the big.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you get to say everything you wanted to say to Derek?

[Kate Garraway]

Yes. And we had three or four weeks where he. When towards the end, where we were. The challenge was so many times the doctor says, he's not gonna come back. He's not gonna get out of this. He's not gonna come out of the first comer, he's not gonna survive sepsis, he's not gonna survive all the other. The line that made him return to hospital. And every time he did that, actually part of the responsibility I felt very strongly at the time was that help that to understand the children. Because I said, oh, say dad's in hospital. And the doctor's saying that this is not looking. It's in a bad way. And they were like, okay, cool, well, we'll go and see him. Because they didn't believe it. You know, they didn't believe that it was going to happen. But, yeah, I absolutely had the child to say everything. And we had a moment when we were on our own in the hospital room, because we were there throughout the end. And I was lucky enough to be there for the last 48 hours until he finally did pass away, which is really special, I think, and be able to hold his hand and continue to talk. Because one of the last things that goes and comes back in any state of unconsciousness or coma is hearing. So even the most cynical doctor will say, don't stop talking, because we won't know if he doesn't make it, whether he could hear you. And if he comes back, it's no problem that he was hearing you. So we were talking the whole time talking about music. And that was lovely. But I remember once when I really felt like he was. I don't know, he just looked like he was really struggling to breathe. And by this point, the breathing was assisted. And he just looked. I don't know. I just had a moment. I thought, you look so beaten up, darling. And I said, look, if you can't do this anymore, we know we'll be fine. And he did, for a second, stop breathing. And I was thinking. And I was like, this is okay. This is okay. And then he took this most enormous guff of breath, and I said, okay, then we'll keep going. And I said to him, I'm never gonna give up, so don't worry about that. I will keep going until you go. Don't worry. I will never let that go on. But if you need to go, just go. So I felt it was really important to be able to say that to him because, you know, you don't know when someone's been very ill for a long time, whether. Whether you're keeping them going for yourself. But when he could speak and when he was fine before the last heart attack, he always. There was no question that he wanted to get better, never mind be around. But we were very precious. It was very precious. I think, that we had that. And when you think of all the people. Not only did we have five years of so many moments of joy and laughter when things were much better before the end, that were just wonderful. Real classic Derek moments. The humor was still there. It was all there. Think how many people go into hospital every day and don't get that chance. And how many people during COVID knew it was gonna happen and couldn't visit and didn't get that chance. So we are very fortunate. But it does remind you. I'll wipe my eyes a minute. We does remind you that actually, you know, it's a cliche, but, my God, cliches are true. That you just don't know where the last moment is. So never wait to say I love you. Never wait to say anything. Give me a hug. Never wait to say, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Never wait to say. I don't say it enough, but you're amazing at that. You just have to. Don't we? And we all forget. But yeah, yeah, the duh.

[Jamie Laing]

I mean, honestly, it's. And it's such a. The way that you're almost in that moment, sort of thinking about other people as well, because I don't Think I would be. Firstly, in that situation, I don't know if I would just probably be very angry. I think I'd find it. Yeah, I think I would. I think I would find it really unfair. I don't know if I. I'm just trying to. Whenever you say that, I think about Sophie.

[Kate Garraway]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

Oh, my God. And I can't. I can't even. Man, if. You know, I just. Yeah, it would be horrendous. And then, as you said, the financial people see, right, unless they watch your incredible documentaries or they really look into it, they see your husband falling ill and then he passes away and they don't see everything else. The butterfly effect of everything around it financially, the struggle and the strain and the pressure. The amount of money you have to be paying and doing and looking after the kids, juggling your job, getting up early in the morning, still doing it, then caring. I mean, it is. I don't understand how you could breathe.

[Kate Garraway]

Well, there are people doing it. Millions of them every day. Millions of them every day.

[Jamie Laing]

I know, I know.

[Kate Garraway]

And they're not lucky enough to be talking to you about it. And that's why I feel a big responsibility now because.

[Jamie Laing]

Is that why you did the documentary, do you think, as well? Because you wanted.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah, absolutely. So the first documentary was in the height of COVID wasn't it? At the very beginning. And it started because Derek was in a coma. And the only way to communicate. Cause we weren't allowed to Visit was via FaceTime. And the doctors would say he couldn't speak, he was in the coma. But the doctors would say talk and talk. And then he began to just have open his eyes and start to track. And they said, right, we need you to tell us if you see any reaction to what you're saying. That's different, because we didn't know him before. So I started filming that because when I was speaking to him, it was such an emotional thing. I couldn't really be scientific about observing and then would watch it back myself. And so I'd collated months and months and months of footage of different things and stuff that we did. And also the children talking to him. So then they said, we'd like to make a documentary with you. When I was approached to. And I said, first of all, I'll have to have complete editorial control because if you're going to come and be with me in this really difficult situation, I can't. I've got to focus on Derek and the children. I can't be thinking, what am I saying? Is It Correct. So I just have to be completely open and then we'll sit down and then we'll decide what is inappropriate to go in, you know, what is too intrusive on Derek, what's too, you know, where the limit is for his privacy, because I've got a responsibility to him. So that was the first thing, but also it was, I think, a useful thing. And Derek, luckily, because he lived, was the one that chose to make the third one, because the first one was really the pandemic and Derek is the unfortunate sort of representative of lots of things people were going through. And then the second one was really my journey into the extraordinary nature of the care system we have and how it doesn't catch you where you fall, despite being filled with angels working in it. And the third one was Derek's. And he suddenly said to me one day. Cause it was quite patchy, the speech. It was a long time, unlike before, the journey between brain and mouth. He just said, are we making another documentary? And I just said, well, I hadn't thought of it. Why, do you want to? And he said, yes. And so this was the one in his voice with me as a backstage. Unfortunately, he passed away in the middle of it, so we had to finish it with half him and then complete it, you know, afterwards with more of me than I probably anybody would have wanted, and the children and everything else. But I just felt like he wanted to say a lot about the healthcare system, about, you know, about what it was. And so we gave him that journey. So. So, yeah, that was why they became made. And then, of course, as soon as it was fun. Well, the thing about it is, Jamie, is that the reaction for people saying, thank you for telling our story. You know, I'm on my own 24 hours a day with my mother. I'm utterly isolated with this. Thank you for saying. What it's like was so overwhelming and so wonderful and it made me realize that I was very lucky because. Because without that, I didn't connect it up. And actually I have started something which is my gift back Bazali. I thought about that called the sharing life. Have you heard about this? Yes, yes, of course I mentioned it. Yeah. And I've just started that because I was very aware that I was getting messages which is so helpful, me on social media or on email, on handwritten, beautiful notes. And often it's the sort of message from a stranger who's lived the experience that that's in the right place and in the right moment fills a hole that the experts Can't. So we're just getting it off the ground. And I'm hoping that sort of, now that I no longer, sadly for me, am a carer for Derek, I don't want to abandon that. And then that will be for carers, but also other problems. You know, if you've cared for somebody, some people care for people for 15, 20 years. Their life is based around it. And then they die. And then there's a grief because then.

[Jamie Laing]

There'S a loss of the purpose.

[Kate Garraway]

And then there's a purpose, there's a purification of grief, there's loss of the person that they're grieving and there's a whole. So there's so much that we want that we're talking about. So it would be lovely if you could get that message out in your podcast. Actually, totally free to sign up.

[Jamie Laing]

We'll put the link in our show description as well.

[Kate Garraway]

That would be amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Without a doubt we'll do that.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah. Cause it just hopefully will give people some of the benefits that people say, oh, it must be awful doing that on telly. There was lots of things that were quite challenging. Yes. But actually one of the things was, is ease the utter isolation because people would. Were able to get in touch with me because I was. So hopefully this will provide something of that for everybody else.

[Jamie Laing]

Your community that you're setting up, sharing life is. It's where people can go on completely for free and they can connect with other people. Right.

[Kate Garraway]

So the sharing life is the thing to search for. We are just join up, we're building the platform so it has a lot of things, but at the moment it's about people sharing stories. And then with some expert helped as well, to be careful. People are able to share advice for each other on there. So hopefully that connection can breed them. Then people will be able to choose what they'd like the community to talk about. Because we need a place that isn't toxic to be able to share, don't we?

[Jamie Laing]

Okay, anyone listening now who is dealing also with grief, what would you say to them?

[Kate Garraway]

I'd say it's not linear. I'd say that it's about sort of understanding it will feel differently on different days. Not being scared to smile and laugh, that's not disloyalty. Not being scared to allow joy in because you know they'd want that.

[Jamie Laing]

Yes.

[Kate Garraway]

Seek it out. Seek it out.

[Jamie Laing]

Cause you feel guilty. Don't you want to?

[Kate Garraway]

I mean, luckily with him, he would say, and it was part of our married life together. That he embraced silliness and joy. Cause he said that's why comedians are often quite dark, because it's the offset of. It's a way of our personality, a way we manage deep feelings. So I know he'd approve of silliness and he would. He definitely. He had a stone next to his bed when he was selling this California. He bought some stones with different words on and he took out the one that said joy and it's still there next to our bed. And he was always seeking joy. So I'm lucky in that. But not everybody might feel that. But I think don't be afraid to seek out joy, don't be afraid to laugh. But also know that just cause you've had a great day doesn't mean to say the next one won't be hard. And that's the journey.

[Jamie Laing]

I've got a big question to ask. Why do you leave the tea bag in your tea?

[Kate Garraway]

Well, because I'm lucky enough that lots of people sometimes make me tea. Right, okay, okay. So it is rarely too weak, but if you leave the tea bag in, you've got an opportunity to do it. Also, I feel like I'm constantly in a rush and you know, that whole. I don't know who said it first, but it's a very good piece of advice. Never pass a toilet without using it. I'm the same of tea. I'm the same of tea. Never say no to a cup of tea because you don't know when the next one's coming from.

[Jamie Laing]

That's great advice.

[Kate Garraway]

I know, but if you see a toilet in a shop or a pub, use it, use it because it could be hours before you see another one.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you drink coffee?

[Kate Garraway]

I used to drink coffee way too much. In the days before Good Morning Britain, there was a show called Daybreak that people don't talk about a lot now. And I was entertainment editor on that and then ended up doing a lot of the hosting in the morning as well. And so, and I was, it was crazy. It was like up at 3 and then doing late nights as entertainment editor. And I drank so much coffee that one day in the dressing room I couldn't get up. I was so freaked. I had come off air. I was so over caffeinated and so.

[Jamie Laing]

Much adrenaline, like anxiety and adrenaline, it.

[Kate Garraway]

Was just like I'd just gone too crazy. So I thought, right, this isn't great.

[Jamie Laing]

This is not a good place to be.

[Kate Garraway]

I feel like even I'm getting the message, this is not good. And actually I went and had some tests and I was massively, massively vitamin D deficient. And we worked out that I was getting up early in the dark, was working all day, mainly inside, and then I was working at night and I just. So, vitamin D. So I had like about six months of ultra high vitamin D and it evened out. And at that point I thought, right, this is a good sign to not drink coffee. Still drink notes of tea, which has got loads of caffeine in, but I do try not to drink coffee. I still love the smell of it, though.

[Jamie Laing]

My God, you didn't have enough vitamin D. Yeah.

[Kate Garraway]

But to be honest, Jamie, most people in the country are very low on vitamin D. I remember sitting next to a plastic surgeon at a charity thing, obviously deeply excited about it.

[Jamie Laing]

Couldn't wait.

[Kate Garraway]

I mean, on every level. So I said, what would be the thing that you would do? Hoping he'd say, you don't need any work, Kate. He said, well, there's obviously work to be done. Like that, roughly in front of my face.

[Jamie Laing]

Did he do that?

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah, he did that. He said, there's obviously work to be done. However, the biggest thing I tell everybody is everybody should be taking vitamin D supplements, women particularly, because we've all got much more sensible and makeup has got very good at having a lot of high factor in, which is great for skin and stuff. But actually most of us are vitamin D deficient. You only actually need to be exposed flesh for about 15 minutes to half an hour a day and that works, and that's enough. But you can very easily not get that, especially if you've got makeup on. But do you.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you get. I get. I think I get something called seasonal affective disorder.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah, Sad.

[Jamie Laing]

Sad.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah. I think people do. Although, weirdly, I think we all do a little bit, don't we? I think February is one of the worst months.

[Jamie Laing]

February is shocking, isn't it?

[Kate Garraway]

We're all broke from Christmas.

[Jamie Laing]

Correct.

[Kate Garraway]

Horribly long period till your December pay from January. And then it all just goes on, on everything you bought for Christmas. And then you haven't quite got. Maybe you're lucky to have a snowdrop, but you haven't got the daffodils and the croakhail and all that coming up. And it feels like spring's a long way away. But also, weirdly, I actually feel more now that actually being in nature, whether it's bare trees or not, is massive. For me, it's the best. Right. But also I do feel as though you can sort of talk yourself into and out of Something of sad. Of sad. Because today it was a really grim morning, wasn't it? There was loads of rain and sleep. And I just thought, actually, do you know what? Everything is sort of in my crazy, juggling life, slightly in place, and so I'm just gonna enjoy the cold on my face. And it's hard to explain, but I think sometimes you can embrace bad weather and dark skies. If mentally you've got yourself in the right place. I think if mentally you're not in the right place place, then sad. You almost don't recognize how much it's affecting you.

[Jamie Laing]

But, Kate, I also think you're right in that I think you can also, mentally, sometimes, like I remember when I was. I used to have. It's very easy, metaphorically, to think tomorrow's gonna be a bad day. And we can go, tomorrow's gonna be a bad day. But if you just say to yourself, it's gonna be a good day, it's gonna be a good. Even if you don't believe it, feel it. But if you do that in that constant narrative, sometimes it can lend you to start thinking. You know, there's this amazing thing which I saw. Right. Okay. So if I was going to say to you, so close your eyes for a second.

[Kate Garraway]

Okay.

[Jamie Laing]

So close your eyes for a second.

[Kate Garraway]

I haven't blended my eyeshadow, so don't judge me.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay? And then open your eyes. Okay. And look for everything that is brown in the room. Look for everything that is brown in the room. Okay. So you try and find everything that's brown. You're seeing that everything's brown. Okay. Right. Now, how many things were red?

[Kate Garraway]

Don't spot it.

[Jamie Laing]

You don't spot it. But now, if you look around, how much of the room is red? Can you spot different red things?

[Kate Garraway]

Loads.

[Jamie Laing]

Exactly. And the point is, is that sometimes in life, when we're looking for something, we'll find it. Right. And when we're not looking for it, we won't find it. And that is mood, that's emotions. That's everything. And sometimes we have to. So if we think negatively, if we think tomorrow is gonna be a bad day, most likely it probably is gonna be a bad day. But sometimes we have to try and look for those good things.

[Kate Garraway]

Absolutely. I used to call it the new car syndrome. If you buy a new car or if your dad got a new car when you were little, suddenly you'd see, and you'd never even thought of it before. As soon as you're conscious of something, I mean, one of the fascinating Things I think about the brain, which is fascinating is the wrong word. But one of the tragedies of Derek being affected by Covid, my husband, in the way he was, is that his brain was everything to him. And he'd chosen to go and retrain as a psychologist as well. So it was even more conscious. And one of the many conversations we have would be about the brain. And one of the things that was fascinating is I had to really learn as much as I could to help support him, post the damage to his whole body, including the brain. And I found that something that there's so much you can read, isn't there? But something that really struck a chord with me is your brain sort of isn't your friend. Cause I kept on saying, oh, the brain has been Derek's friend all his life. And now he says it, he used to tell me it's now my worst enemy. It's not actually. What I realized is the brain is a survival computer, right? So when we were.

[Jamie Laing]

Explain that to me.

[Kate Garraway]

So when we were in the caves, you know, obviously this is all slightly fantasy, but when we were in caves and a saber toothed tiger came to the door, we had two choices. We had to run or fight. Flight or fight, right? And so our brain is hardwired to keep us alive. Only that doesn't give a damn about our happiness, doesn't give a damn about our joy. It's programmed to make us survive. So we see danger on adrenaline shock. In our modern world, we can see news reports, for instance. Often it's me delivering them of a terrible, terrible earthquake. The other side of the world, our brain reacts as if the earthquake was at our front of our cave. We have massive shuttle of adrenaline and stress, but actually we can do nothing to help those poor people. And really what our brain wants us to do is to shut that out. Because if you tell your brain all the time, which the modern world does constantly, be on alert, be on alert, be on alert, be on alert. It's absolutely overloaded. So you have to retrain your brain to look for joy. I mean, it's the classic way we sell newspaper headlines, isn't it A brilliantly beautiful headline on a front page. There's been no trouble today is not going to make you notice, see and buy. So our whole commercial world basically is based on tapping into the fact that our computer is designed to be programmed for danger. So when I was feeling quite overwhelmed sometimes in the first period of Derek living or dying, and later on just managing the care of keeping him alive, and being the carer, I had to really talk myself into finding space. And I would kind of look at the sky and think about the infinitesimal nature of the universe and think actually, you know, the cells, everything, the spaces in our body. I don't know if you've ever done it. If you have to get up early in the morning, I, I do this probably more than you, that you can look at the clock and think, God, I've only got three hours. And you totally panic about it. But I go, actually, I've got exactly the amount of sleep I need, otherwise this day would not have been the day that it was meant to be. So just relax and sleep. And then I wake up. Okay. Probably not as good as I would be with eight hours. So I've just consciously all the time trying to program myself for joy and happiness and try and put that into my brain because I did live for six years on high level and I've got to try and offset that.

[Jamie Laing]

Would you ever, at some point, now that you're sort of back in, maybe a bit more and you feel like you can breathe again, would you ever think about dating again?

[Kate Garraway]

Well, I wouldn't like to think that I never had romantic love in my life ever again. I think that would be rather a sad way to go through life, wouldn't it? Yeah, but I, I'm, no, I, I, I'm not there yet. I don't know if anybody would want me. Jamie, Kate, listen, go and talk to your mates. Find out if any of their dads are single. That's your task. That's your task.

[Jamie Laing]

Jamie, would you ever use a dating app?

[Kate Garraway]

No.

[Jamie Laing]

You wouldn't?

[Kate Garraway]

Of course not. I've never used this. I never really dated.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you not?

[Kate Garraway]

I don't think I've ever really dated. Cause everybody keeps asking me about dating. So I don't think I've ever dated in the way that you guys see us dating. I think it's a really deeply uncomfortable thing to do to go and meet somebody you've never met. I just end up interviewing them. I will get a word in edgeways. It's, the whole thing is just, I don't know. So I think I'm, I'm of the old school where you lived alive, did things you love and met people along the way. I don't know. But maybe that doesn't happen anymore.

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[Jamie Laing]

You're so brilliant. Honestly, you are just beyond amazing. And truly the way that you just speak so eloquently and when you talk about Derek and your family, there's so much love and just so much. I know people listening to this and watching this will just connect with you and that's why the documentaries are so. But it truly is 100%, because the amount of people you must have helped and given a voice for is just endless. So I just. And I.

[Kate Garraway]

They've helped me.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. And I can't imagine, you know, the pain. I cannot imagine. And being brave enough to put yourself out there and talk about it and document it and say, look, this is what's happening to me and me and my family and us. But I know it's happening to millions of other people. So I'm going to be that subject to show what happens. Amazing. Truly amazing. It's really important. So thank you.

[Kate Garraway]

Well, thank you for allowing me to waffle on for so long.

[Jamie Laing]

Are you kidding me?

[Kate Garraway]

It's great fun.

[Jamie Laing]

Thank you, Kate. We'd like to end the conversation with.

[Kate Garraway]

Eight questions oh, God, I haven't looked at these. It doesn't matter.

[Jamie Laing]

That's what we like.

[Kate Garraway]

Okay. All right, here we go. You ready?

[Jamie Laing]

What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? Oh, God.

[Kate Garraway]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I have one phrase. I guess one phrase I always think of is just like. I think it's a bit of a seize the moment rather than seize the day. If I'm feeling a bit blue. I just think seize the moment. Moment. Have a run a bath, you know, close your eyes for five seconds, look at a flower.

[Jamie Laing]

Best compliment anyone's ever given you.

[Kate Garraway]

Oh, my gosh. I don't know what's the best compliment.

[Jamie Laing]

As Brits, we hate this. Honestly. Americans are literally that I am brilliant.

[Kate Garraway]

To be honest, any compliment is a great compliment, I think. Don't you think? Especially if it's a genuinely well meant compliment. Rather just trying to, you know, work you.

[Jamie Laing]

That was a good answer. What scares you most about yourself?

[Kate Garraway]

I don't know that. Well, the thing is, I think I do scare other people. I think I'm quite a lot for people, but it doesn't scare me because I'm inside my head.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you think you are? I don't think you're a lot of other people.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah, maybe not. Maybe when in. Maybe I don't scare. Are you scared? Just.

[Jamie Laing]

Well, I think I'm not scared at all of you, but I think.

[Kate Garraway]

Butch has you responded to that.

[Jamie Laing]

But I suppose I. I mean, I think that. Look, there's a freedom from fear that comes from grief, I imagine as well.

[Kate Garraway]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

Because when you.

[Kate Garraway]

I'm scared of a lot of things. I don't think there's anything particularly that scares me about me. I guess everybody worries, don't they, about getting older and not feeling as strong.

[Jamie Laing]

Mine is my mind sometimes, like yours, my mind doesn't stop. And that sometimes.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

I wish I could just.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah. Shut it down. Yeah, yeah. But then you can. But then you can practice. That's solvable. I always think life or death is the big one. And everything else is kind of admin. Everything else you can tackle, can't you? You. You know, let's so. And let's just start from okay, alive at the moment. What do we need to do next? And that's how I had to live for a long time with Derek. You know, the doctors would say. And literally the first question I ask is, is he alive? And if they said yes, I was like, okay, tell me Then what actually is going on and then feel like after that, it's. It's kind of admin. So that's a bit of admin for you.

[Jamie Laing]

That is amazing. I love that. But the other quote that you said to me recently was, like, from. Was that the brain is the galaxy that we need to explore more.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah. The brain is so fascinating. You know, we haven't quite, I don't think, gone to the deepest ocean. We certainly haven't gone into space. But looking in, that is the galaxy that we really need to explore. We can't see it. We can't even detect brain cells in there. We could only see a fraction of them, even though we now have the technology to say billions. And the brain is the galaxy that we. That we need to explore. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Apart from today. When was the last time you cried?

[Kate Garraway]

I haven't cried enough, probably, Jamie, about all that I've been through. I think probably a bit of sobbing needs to be done. I don't really let it out. Cause I don't let it out. I'm not there yet to have the space to do it without things falling apart a little bit, if you know what I mean. I've got to keep going. But I cry a lot about other things. I mean, Christmas ads. I mean, for heaven's sake.

[Jamie Laing]

That I know.

[Kate Garraway]

What on earth.

[Jamie Laing]

That John Lisbon. I don't even know what.

[Kate Garraway]

That John Lisbon.

[Jamie Laing]

I don't even know what it's about.

[Kate Garraway]

I don't know, but it's about.

[Jamie Laing]

It's just about a dad and something.

[Kate Garraway]

There's a dad and a child, and you're like, I know.

[Jamie Laing]

I watched the Halifax one where they lose. She lost the scarf on the bus back in the day.

[Kate Garraway]

I know.

[Jamie Laing]

The weight behind the scarf.

[Kate Garraway]

It's gorgeous. They're all gorgeous. So, you know, at Christmas, you've got kids. We're all on, you know, a hair trigger, aren't we? So I cry a lot anyway. I cry at films, I cry at movies.

[Jamie Laing]

But I think you should give yourself space to allow yourself to cry at something.

[Kate Garraway]

I reckon that sometimes you cry more about things you wouldn't cry about because it's so stressful. Because that's your body and your way of letting it out. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What's something you can't let go of?

[Kate Garraway]

Pretty much everything. I'm a horrific hoarder. I mean, so horrific. And I'm really, really trying. So I don't let. Well, I mean, I'm not the source of a Channel 5 documentary, Jamie. We're not hard to the ceiling, but I'm a massive order. No, no. I find it hard to let go, so I'm trying to let things go because, you know, you just have to. So there's a lot that I don't let go. I mean, weirdly, I do let go of being cross with people. I don't.

[Jamie Laing]

I'm quite good at that.

[Kate Garraway]

I'm really good at that.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you remember, though? Do you forget or. I don't. I go, oh, well. But I kind of go, like, I sort of.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah, it takes a lot to make me angry, so therefore, yeah, I do remember. But, yeah, it's not that I can't let things go in an argument at all, but. Yeah, no, in terms of stuff, I mean, you know, I've arrived with a suitcase today. Not going anywhere. I just wanted to work. Well, you don't realize that that's work. That's work. I mean, admittedly, I do have to have outfits to change into and things for my work, but even so. That is abnormal. That's abnormal. My friend saw a picture of me with a suitcase. She said, what is in that bag? I was like, I'm not entirely sure. One day, one day, Ben shepherd pulled out a bird's nest.

[Jamie Laing]

No, I'm not joking.

[Kate Garraway]

I'm not. It was an abandoned one and it had been in there because of show and tell at school. You'll go through all this. But I just hadn't noticed it. He was revolted and barely spoke to me for a week because he said, you've had that in your back. Think of the germs. I just was delighted, excited to have found it. I was really pleased and made sure I put it somewhere safe.

[Jamie Laing]

What's your guilty pleasure?

[Kate Garraway]

Well, I don't know. I'm not remotely guilty about it. Chocolate. But in fact, actually chocolate. But I don't. I, I.

[Jamie Laing]

What type of chocolate?

[Kate Garraway]

What's your favorite chocolate about? Pleasures. Really?

[Jamie Laing]

Chocolate with tea.

[Kate Garraway]

Chocolate with tea. Yeah. Chocolate, tea, chocolate.

[Jamie Laing]

Dairy milk.

[Kate Garraway]

Always particularly big on. On posh chocolate.

[Jamie Laing]

No, nor am I.

[Kate Garraway]

It's a dairy milk button. It's a galaxy.

[Jamie Laing]

What turns you off?

[Kate Garraway]

I really hate graffiti. And litter. Now. I know some.

[Jamie Laing]

Not expecting that, do you really? Out of nowhere.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it.

[Kate Garraway]

Do you know what I don't like? Now there's some graffiti, obviously. That's absolutely. What I don't like is the sort of oppressive nature of litter. It makes me sad that people care so little for where they are or care so Little for where they're passing through that they think litter. I think it's okay. They just think it's okay to do that. And if you're living in a house and somebody graffiti is the side of the house unless you give them permission, it's like, why did you think it was okay for you to impact everyone else's environment? So people that go to the park and play their music loud. Let me buy you some headphones. Happy to do that. Why do you think that your particular taste of music, even if I like it, should be shared? We live in a city there's no chance of silent. You got me started now. So late in the day.

[Jamie Laing]

What turns you on?

[Kate Garraway]

Oh, like, we're not going down that.

[Jamie Laing]

Listen, is there anything you want to know?

[Kate Garraway]

You haven't sorted out the dating situation with your mate's dads yet, so we're not. We don't need to get into that. Jamie, this afternoon. That is months, if not years away generally. Oh, my God. I love everything. I mean, the really confusing thing about me, there's very little I'm not interested in. I've realized I even spent about 45 minutes recently talking to people about Morris dancing. Not something that I put at the top of my list to discuss that afternoon, but it was fascinating. So, yeah, there's very little that I don't find interesting.

[Jamie Laing]

You're like me. I get excited about people getting excited about stuff.

[Kate Garraway]

100%. 100%.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you like most about yourself?

[Kate Garraway]

I don't know. I don't know. Oh, I don't know. What do I like most about myself? About myself or about my life?

[Jamie Laing]

I reckon you're incredibly incredible. I reckon you're incredibly caring and loving and open.

[Kate Garraway]

Right, okay, Sorry. I like that. I like that. Caring, loving and open. I like that. Is that a kind of, like, euphemistic version of intrusive? Talks too much?

[Jamie Laing]

Not at all. Not at all. But I reckon. That's what. I reckon.

[Kate Garraway]

You.

[Jamie Laing]

You give out a lot of love rather than almost. You don't. You don't.

[Kate Garraway]

I give out a lot of love, but people are lovely to me as well, so I'm very lucky. I'm very lucky.

[Jamie Laing]

Bonus one.

[Kate Garraway]

Okay.

[Jamie Laing]

Because you're on tv.

[Kate Garraway]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And you never swear?

[Kate Garraway]

Absolutely.

[Jamie Laing]

What's your favorite swear word?

[Kate Garraway]

Bugger.

[Jamie Laing]

Get out of here.

[Kate Garraway]

It's so good.

[Jamie Laing]

It cannot be your favorite. Oh, bugger it. Bugger is not your favourite.

[Kate Garraway]

Why'd you say that? Why'd you say that?

[Jamie Laing]

I was hoping you were gonna go.

[Kate Garraway]

For A big one. I feel bugger is a big one.

[Jamie Laing]

I thought you were about to go.

[Kate Garraway]

I love bugger.

[Jamie Laing]

Your favorite swear word is bugger.

[Kate Garraway]

I also really like the word sod. There's something about sod, but that's because I read a lot of Irish protein. They talk about sods of earth when I was younger, so. Yeah, but no, bugger is great, isn't it? It's beautiful.

[Jamie Laing]

Kate, you have been glorious in every way. Thank you for coming on. Great company. You're amazing.

[Kate Garraway]

Thank you. Thank you to you.

[Verizon/Mint Mobile/Instacart/Aramco Ad Voice]

Thank you.

[Jamie Laing]

Guys. I hope you enjoyed that episode. Firstly, a big thank you to Kate, Gary, for coming on and being so open and honest about everything. One of the big takeaways I got is that sometimes we forget to think about the butterfly effect that it has on the whole family. The financial, the stress, the emotional stress that goes on. Just shows how incredibly resilient someone like Kate is. I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did recording it. And if you like this episode, we have so many more that you can click on and go and watch. And without a doubt, we'll see you next week for another episode of Great Company.

[Kate Garraway]

Yeah.

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[Paige from Giggly Squad]

Hey guys, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. And if you're anything like me, holiday shopping has officially started. And you know where I'm going. Ulta Beauty. They have the cutest gift sets right now. Like the Sol de Janeiro Shea Rosa and Cheer perfume. You miss Trio. It smells so good. I've been misting it everywhere. On me, on the street, on my pillow. It's a whole vibe. I'm obsessed with the Tarte Kindness Cafe Collector set. It's packed with everyday makeup must haves and it's honestly too cute to wrap. And if you need a cozy little self care moment, the Moroccan Oil Hand Care Essentials kit is luxe, hydrating and smells delicious. Don't worry if you can't decide right now. An Ulta Beauty Gift Card is the perfect gift for everyone. So whether you're gifting your bestie or yourself, make the season yours and head to Ulta Beauty. Today. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here this holiday season.

[Verizon/Mint Mobile/Instacart/Aramco Ad Voice]

Millions of families will pack their bags, load up the car and head off for a family vacation. But not every trip is going to be somewhere fun. The American Red Cross responds to about 7,000 emergencies during the holiday season alone, from home fires to natural disaster disasters providing families a safe place to go when the unthinkable happens. But they can't do it without your support. Please [e-mail].