LOUIE SPENCE: I MAKE EVERYONE ELSE HAPPY BUT I CAN’T FIND HAPPINESS MYSELF

Summary

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Great Company with Jamie Laing

Episode: Louie Spence: I Make Everyone Else Happy But I Can’t Find Happiness Myself

Guest: Louis Spence
Host: Jamie Laing
Producer: Jemima
Date: August 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

This emotionally candid episode peels back the layers on Louis Spence’s public persona, diving deep into his struggles with anxiety, depression, and the search for happiness amid a career defined by relentless performance and making others smile. In an unusually vulnerable and honest conversation, Louis discusses his rise to fame, family history with addiction, the impact of his mother’s death, and his ongoing battles with mental health.

"I make all these people so happy. But then I can't seem to find happiness for myself."
– Louis Spence [36:47]

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Louis’ Public Persona vs. Private Reality

• Louis is widely known as a vibrant, flamboyant entertainer, from “Pineapple Studios” to “Celebrity Big Brother.”
• Jamie and Jemima discuss at the top of the episode how most people know Louis for his energy and humor but sense that the real person is “very different.”
  • “He seems to be this larger-than-life, happy-go-lucky character. But what we learn… is his persona is very different to his real self." – Jamie [04:04]
  • “Louis leans towards the sort of darker side of life…” – Jamie [04:18]
• Louis himself immediately sets the tone:

  "I make all these people so happy. But then I can't seem to find happiness for myself." [36:47]

2. Rise to Fame and Working Life

• Initial successes as a professional dancer: Louis toured with the Spice Girls and starred in West End productions, most notably as Magical Mr. Mistoffelees in “Cats.”

  “It was the peak of their fame and we were like performing in front of, like, 90,000 people… They were a joy to work with.” – Louis [10:14]

• Transition to TV fame: Pineapple Studios was an unexpected hit.
  • The show was organic and unscripted, allowing the natural eccentricity of the dance studio to shine.
  • Fame led to sudden wealth and attention, which Louis describes as surreal but fleeting:

    “I bought a house, I had the flash cars, bought the Rolexes, loving myself sick, paid off my parents' mortgage…” [14:06]

• Cynicism about celebrity: Louis describes celebrity as finite, and he never expected it to last.

  "Nothing lasts.” – Louis [17:46]

3. Family, Addiction, and Grief

• Openly discusses the death of his mother, Pat, from alcoholism in 2012:
  • The family didn’t notice her drinking due to her extreme control and presentation.
  • She hid vodka in water bottles and topped up wine with spirits.
  • The revelation was sudden and devastating:

    “She said, ‘I don't care. If I'm going to die, I die happy.’ That’s what she said.” [23:10]

• Addiction history runs in the family: His grandmother, aunt, and uncle also died due to alcoholism.
• Profound impact of loss:
  • Initially, Louis was numb and matter-of-fact about his mother’s passing, only breaking down years later.

    “Three years later, I broke down… that’s when I first went on medication.” [28:47]

• Sympathetic understanding:

  “She couldn't find happiness in herself and that's why she died the way she did. And I completely understand that.” [27:36]

4. Lifetime of Anxiety and Depression

• Struggles from childhood:
  • Experiences of physical anxiety from as young as eight.

    “I would get like, where... my heart was beating so strong… I just didn’t know what it was.” [40:14]

  • Anxiety manifested as health anxieties, phobias, and panics over family safety.
• Genetics and family history:
  • Anxiety appears deeply rooted in his family, particularly on his mother’s side.
  • “All my family suffer with forms of anxiety.” [41:54]
• Chronic nature:
  • Louis describes a “black dog” of depression and a cyclical battle.

    “I've tried every therapy you can think of.” [33:34]

5. Responsibility, Self-Doubt and Children

• Fear as an obstacle:
  • Anxiety has prevented Louis from pursuing things like parenthood.

    “The thought of having kids is too much… I would worry that… I can’t provide for them…” [32:23]

  • He is candid about the paralyzing effects:

    “Anxiety and depression can make you the most selfish person in the world.” [31:49]

• Ongoing self-doubt:

  “There’s a voice in my head telling me, get out of this, get out of this, but I can’t get out…” [32:20]

6. Impact of Fame: Joy vs. Inner Emptiness

• External validation didn’t bring inner peace:
  • Despite making others happy (“100% of my comments are, ‘you make me so happy’” [36:47]), happiness eludes him.

  “I can’t remember the last time I laughed like that…” – Louis [38:44]

• Joy from performing, but not from daily life:
  • Finding happiness in moments on stage, but not in general life:

    “Moments I’ve had when I’ve done things… but it wasn’t in my general life.” [38:07]

• Post-fame ‘emptiness’ crept in:
  • “That real emptiness came after I became famous… I still felt… empty. So, searching. Why was I empty? What is it?” [62:53]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On making himself and others happy:

  "I make all these people so happy. But then I can't seem to find happiness for myself and it's not like I don't have an incredible husband. There’s nothing. I am loved. But that’s the word: you can’t find it." – Louis [36:47]

• On showing love:

  “My love has always been shown through... not material things, but making sure we were well, had nice clothes, were fed. That’s my way of showing love.” – Louis [67:52]

• On family addiction:

  “My mother, my grandmother, my uncle… all died of alcoholism. But I don’t blame her.” – Louis [27:10]

• On childhood:

  “I never felt different. I never felt as though anyone bullied me. I had an amazing childhood.” – Louis [45:21]

• On public perception:

  “People think, ‘mate, they’re having a great time…’ Underneath it all, they are maybe not what it says on the surface.” – Jamie [04:46]

• Quick-fire round:

  • What scares you most about yourself?
    “The voice in my head.” – Louis [70:30]
  • Guilty pleasure?
    “I don’t feel guilty about anything.” – Louis [71:19]
  • What do you like most about yourself?
    “I try and be generous.” – Louis [72:05]
  • Favourite dance move?
    “Slut drop.” – Louis [72:18]
  • What turns you on?
    “Cleanliness next to godliness, darling. And he loves us, doesn’t he? The gays.” – Louis [71:52]

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Standout Segments & Timestamps

• [05:39]–[17:46]: Early career, rise to celebrity, realities of show business
• [17:46]–[32:33]: Mother’s illness/death, family history of addiction, processing grief
• [32:33]–[33:34]: On not having children, how anxiety holds him back
• [36:47]–[38:43]: The impossibility of happiness, performing happiness for others
• [38:43]–[41:54]: ChiIdhood experiences of anxiety
• [53:16]–[55:44]: Upbringing, family sacrifices, attending stage school
• [68:06]–[71:59]: Relationship with husband, love, self-reflection
• [69:41]–[72:21]: Rapid-fire “8 questions” with Louis’ humorous, candid responses

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Tone & Takeaways

Despite his often comedic, effervescent external persona, Louis’ candidness in this episode highlights the universal truth that appearances can be deceiving. He is articulate, funny, and charming, but his struggles with mental health, grief, and the enduring search for personal contentment are front and centre. Jamie navigates the conversation with sensitivity, allowing both laughter and tears.

The episode stands out as a testament to the importance of speaking openly about mental health, the complicated nature of happiness, and the hidden battles beneath the surface—no matter how glittering that surface may be.

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Additional Resources

If you or someone you know is struggling with grief, addiction, or mental health, Jamie invites listeners to check the episode’s show notes for support resources.

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Listen to "Great Company" for more revealing, thoughtful conversations every week.

Transcript

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[Louis Spence]

Wait, did I say job title yet?

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[Jamie Laing]

Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Laing and this is Great Company. Well welcome back everybody to Great Company Podcast. It's your host Jamie here and you.

[Jemima]

Are the producer Jemima.

[Jamie Laing]

Yes you are Jemima. Thank you very much. Jemima's wearing a fleece today.

[Jemima]

I am wearing a fleece.

[Jamie Laing]

And you're also reading a book which gave me anxiety of how Big. It is.

[Jemima]

It is a big book. It is. If you listen to Chloe Burrows, it's fourth wing. Fourth wing. Sorry, I should give more context that Chloe Burrows mentioned. She's reading a book. It's called Fourth Wing. I am reading that book. It's very big.

[Jamie Laing]

Is it about the fourth wing of a house or is it a fourth wing?

[Jemima]

Only you would think that it's about dwagons, wagons, dragons.

[Jamie Laing]

Oh, not about wagons, but dragons.

[Jemima]

I couldn't say my R's as a child.

[Jamie Laing]

And then you learned how to say them.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

Concerning when your surname starts with an R. Rathbone.

[Jamie Laing]

So you say Wathbone.

[Jemima]

I did. Not anymore.

[Jamie Laing]

Anyway, anyway, well, today we have a really exciting episode because we have Louis Spence on the show.

[Jemima]

Louis Spence. Now tell me how, before meeting Louis, what was your like, thoughts of Louis?

[Jamie Laing]

Well, I've met Louis before.

[Jemima]

Okay.

[Jamie Laing]

But only briefly. And Louis has been kind of on TV for many, many years. He's done lots of different shows, starred on Pineapple Studios. He's done Celebrity Big Brother. He's done recently SAS who Dares Wins. And actually on Sas who Dares Wins, he was kind of coming up quite a lot on the show and it really made me go back into thinking, who is Louis Spence? Yeah, like Louis Spence has kind of been on our TV screens and in our kind of zeitgeist for sort of a long time. But actually, I don't really know the real person.

[Jemima]

I only know him as a dance. And also from that, that meme.

[Louis Spence]

What's it called?

[Jamie Laing]

I'm Like a Whippet.

[Jemima]

I'm Like a Whippet Chasing. I'm Like a Whippet. That's all I know.

[Jamie Laing]

And he seems to be this larger than life, happy, go lucky character. But what we learn on the episode today is his Persona is very different to his real self.

[Jemima]

There's so many people like that.

[Jamie Laing]

There's so many people like that.

[Jemima]

Most people relate to that.

[Jamie Laing]

Louis leans towards the sort of darker side of life. I would say he has experienced anxiety and depression throughout his entire life. He was very close to his mum who died of alcoholism, and he talks very openly about that in the show. He talks about a lot of things that I just really wasn't expecting.

[Louis Spence]

Wow.

[Jemima]

It really makes you. We were talking about this earlier, but when you're sat opposite someone on the tube and you don't know what's going.

[Jamie Laing]

On, you don't know what's going on in their life. And I think that's exactly what this episode represents. When you see someone on your screens, on the tube, in your life. And you think, mate, they're having a great time. They're having a really happy time. They must be having the best time in the world. Underneath it all, they are maybe not what it says on the surface.

[Jemima]

Yeah, no one ever is.

[Jamie Laing]

So we really hope you enjoy this episode. It's a deep, meaningful, kind of resilient episode, which I hope you enjoy. Now, if you haven't yet subscribed to our show, please do just click that subscribe button. It does us wonders. It keeps allowing us to make the show that we love and keeps getting the guests that we want to get for you. And also follow us on social media Reat company podcast and you can send us an email. Greatcompanyampoproductions.co.uk let us know what guest you want us to have on next. Okay. Enjoy this episode of Great Company with Louis Spencer.

[Louis Spence]

My name's Louis Spence and I'm in Great Company.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you like ss? Who does wins?

[Louis Spence]

Look, I never watched it. And people say, oh, you must. I promise you I didn't. And they told me to watch it, but I thought, if I watch it.

[Jamie Laing]

You won't do it.

[Louis Spence]

I won't do it. So I will just go on what you're telling me. I think the concept is great. I think the other people I did it with, some of them were so enthusiastic. I mean, literally, they were so excited about it. Like, you know the guy from Love Island, Adam, I think his name's.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, Adam. Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

I was only there, so short. And then Lucy Spraggan, she so wanted to do it, you know, and Bimini. And like I say, I was like, I got there and I was like, oh, I don't have. It's not there. I don't have that.

[Jamie Laing]

I don't have that drive.

[Louis Spence]

I don't.

[Jamie Laing]

I don't have that design.

[Louis Spence]

And, you know, I've never, ever, ever left the job voluntarily. But I just knew.

[Jamie Laing]

You just were like, I know people.

[Louis Spence]

Can say, well, why did you do it then? Because you don't know until you try, do you? It's like a towel. I tried vagina once when I was 12. I never went back. I went straight to Mr. Whippy for me fucking nuts on my nine to nine and thought, do you know what I mean? You try something, you know, if you like it. It just weren't for me.

[Jamie Laing]

When Pineapple Studio started.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And it blew up like that. Did you expect it to blow up?

[Louis Spence]

No, absolutely not. We had few, you know, we had lots of people come in and talk about, oh, fuck off. You know, because we were far too busy having our fabulous own time. We didn't want people to.

[Jamie Laing]

You had a few people coming in.

[Louis Spence]

Saying, oh, yeah, yeah, lots of different people. You know, it's a really interesting place. We have people like, you know, Madonna was in there, Beyonce, you know, Spice Girl. All these people come and rehearse all the West End show. There's a great hub of. You couldn't go wrong. Anyway. But this guy comes in, I see him like I'm standing at the reception, obviously pretending that I'm artistic director, doing nothing, you know, because that's what I did, really. I just minced around and did nothing. Just spoke to everyone, just, you know, made people smile, made sure that the people that come in, that they felt welcome and all that. Anyway, this guy pulls up, salt and pepper in the hair and. And he gets off this bike. But it's a bit worried about. It's one of those little foldy ones. Yeah, yeah. I was like, girl. No, she's like, that's too much. Anyway, so then he comes in and like I said, he had a ass like two hard or boiled eggs and a handkerchief. I was like, hello. I said, laura, yeah, he wants to come and talk about. So we've got him in the office and we're supposed sitting there looking at him like that. And I'm just like, you know, looking. And he had these beautiful blue eyes and. And he was really quite quirky and funny and he said about wanting to do this observational documentary and I was like, well, I'm the one you need to speak to because, yeah, I'm. I'm the artistic director. Gave himself that title. I was never given that title. I gave myself it. And anyway, and then I sorted out with the owner, Debbie Moore, obe, should be Dame. And. But she's not quite yet. But she should be. And so I spoke to her and anyway, we only got him in. We thought he was quite cute and that's the only reason we did it. Did we think it's going to be hit? No, it was on Sky. I was like, well, who has sky if it ain't on one to five? Then there was an awesome terrestrial who's going to watch it? So I thought, you know, like I said, we weren't being paid, didn't give a shit, you know, really didn't. Had no.

[Jamie Laing]

No idea. Nothing.

[Louis Spence]

No. And like I say, everything we did on there was totally real. We had a cameraman with each one of us. There was no storylines given to us. There was no can you do.

[Jamie Laing]

You were just having fun.

[Louis Spence]

We were doing. The place was a hive of theatrical activity. There was dancers, there were singers, there was gays, there were straights, there was bi, there was tris, there was trans, there was fucking all, darling. Do you know what I mean? Literally everything was in that building and everyone was just free there. So you put a camera in there and someone just guiding it, you're gonna get a great show. The things we did do was like the choreographed the little dance routines.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, they were amazing.

[Louis Spence]

But apart from that. No, that was, that was it. No. Did we think it's gonna be a hit? Absolutely not. Your life is saying.

[Jamie Laing]

Because also I you doing that. You were doing western shows. You toured with the Spice Girls.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah, that was incredible.

[Jamie Laing]

What was touring with the Spice Girls.

[Louis Spence]

It was the most incredible job because we went around the whole of North America, the whole of Europe with as dancers. Dancers didn't get to do that kind of job because we always had the American artists like, you know, Janet Jackson, Madonna, Michael Jackson. They always brought dance sober. Yeah, we never had an act going there. Dancers that broke America. I mean, the Beatles maybe broke America years ago, but before, after that, there's never been somewhere what would take a group of dancers. It was always the American artists coming here. We were treated like royalty. The girls were amazing to us. Five star hotels. The gays slipped in the private jets a couple of times. Only the gays, though.

[Jamie Laing]

Just amazing.

[Louis Spence]

Literally, they, they. It was wonderful. It was, it was. They.

[Jamie Laing]

And this was like the peak.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah, yeah, it was like, you know, it was the peak of their fame and we would like performing in front of like, you know, 90,000 people, you know, did Madison Square Gardens. Literally we went, we went everywhere and they were, they were a joy to work with. They really were. And like I say you've never. I know the Spice was only lasted for a short period, but the amount of stuff they did in that period would last some people a lifetime. I swear to God, those girls didn't have time to fart.

[Jamie Laing]

Did they not?

[Louis Spence]

They were constantly doing an interview. If having their makeup done during a radio interview, doing a voiceover for this. They would fly from Paris to Norway after a show to do an interview there, fly back that night, the next morning before the show, fly there. You've never. Honestly, I'm surprised any of them are sane. They, they, you know, they deserve everything they got. They worked incredibly, incredibly hard and they were amazing to work for.

[Jamie Laing]

Is it as glamorous as you think or is it not as glamorous when you pull back the curtain?

[Louis Spence]

No, of course it's not as glamorous because, I mean, you know, I think. I'm sure that if you spoke to any of those girls, they. They wouldn't have had any time while they were doing that to enjoy anything, because they didn't have any time. So I'm sure that, you know, there's lots of glamour come for them after. For us, it was glamorous. You know, meeting Madonna and Prince and Michael Jackson and that was glamorous for us. But we were just the dancers mincing through. We didn't have to then, you know, do all this work and do everything they had to do.

[Jamie Laing]

Why did you stop being a professional dancer?

[Louis Spence]

Because I got to. After Spice Girls, the last job I did was magical Mr. Mistoffeles in Cats, which I was. I think I was 28 when I finished that. I done my first, like, western show when I was 12.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And I just thought, you tired. I was just so. I don't want to be one of them old hoofer trying to stay behind. Now, the pop group coming up after the Spice Girls, if I was doing commercial, they were going to be like 17, 18. I didn't want. I'd done it, I'd done West End, I'd done commercial, lots of commercial stuff, and I just didn't. I just. I lost. I love to dance, but I lost the passion. I didn't want to be that old person trying to hang on.

[Jamie Laing]

I get it.

[Louis Spence]

And like I said, I went to work at Pineapple in a place which I loved. I loved being surrounded by all the people I loved. Dancers, actors, singers. I was in the hub of. So I was in a place that I was still very comfortable and very happy. And there was always something going on. So it was perfect. And like I say, then Pineapple Dance, Judas, and the rest is history.

[Jamie Laing]

I totally understand that mentality. Right. Is when you're in the performance world, it's like job to job.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

You do a job, you finish a job, you try and find another job. That's what happens. And then suddenly you're thrown into. This is like 2010.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Pineapple Studios comes out, you're the breakout star. And if anyone hasn't seen it, man, we were talking about it earlier. You were fucking just amazing on it. And it like, it's not even a moment in time. We were rewatching clips today. It, like, travels through time. It's still amazing today because now it's.

[Louis Spence]

Been Made lot things have been made into memes and everything, those kind of things.

[Jamie Laing]

But, but you came out of the. So you then come out, you get all this money suddenly thrown at you. What does that do to you?

[Louis Spence]

Well, initially, like I say, it was so insane. I did not stop working for like I'd say a good two years. Like literally, you know, my agent would send me. Like when you're a dancer, you work, you, you, you have an agent.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

You wait three months to get your paycheck, you're always in overdraft. You know, they would always hold on to the money, then they're keeping it in their bank account.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

You know, whereas when I became a celebrity or you know, known whatever it was then when I did some jobs like within like two weeks or something, the money would be paid to my bank account. So I thought, hold on, this is the easiest job of my life. You know, they're just paying me to be. Spin around with a speech impediment, do a hike and be gay. So I'd say for about the first like three years.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

It was just, you know, I bought a house, I had the flash cars, bought the Rolexes, you know, loving myself sick, paid off my parents mortgage, you know, and still working, working, working, working. So it didn't really change because I was sort of spending it like that. But I wasn' really looking at how much I was accumulating because I really wasn't, I wasn't looking at my bank account every day. I was just had these silly checks coming in. Like I say it started off with.

[Jamie Laing]

A check, like monopoly money.

[Louis Spence]

Started with a check for like 10 grand. That one.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And then in the like peak of it, every week I was getting like my agent was sending me 30 grand, 40 grand, 60 grand. And not that you become used to it, you don't. But where I was working as well, I didn't have time to sort of think, oh, you know, sort of this. But about three years later when, you know, I'd had a real intense three years and then, you know, it just riding the wave, which I was absolutely fine with. Like I said, I never thought this was going to last at the same level. And I'm not somebody who's terribly ambitious either. If someone comes to me with something and wants me to do it, then I'm there, I'm creative, but I can't. I think about things, but then I think, oh no, that means I've got a talk to that person. Then I talk myself out of it.

[Jamie Laing]

Really?

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Even As a creator or creative.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. Because even like with podcasts, people, you'd be great at podcasts. I'm like, yeah, but I would. But yeah, I would. Because I can talk the leg of a chair. I think I can talk to anyone. But the fact is, it's depending how I feel on that day, because from day to day, I could be either in a black hole and not want to speak for a week, or I could be telling myself, you can't actually do it, you can't do it. There's no way. What are you going to say to them?

[Jamie Laing]

You know, you got that self doubt coming in.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. So I know I can do it. If you ask me to come and do it, I can do it. Because you're responsible. I don't have the responsibility. I don't like responsibility. You know, I don't like that pressure because that pressure gives me anxiety and all of that.

[Jamie Laing]

Anyway, just quickly. But again, I don't want to go from our original point. But that's, that's interesting, right? Because I think a lot of people have that. It's that fear of failure. It's that fear of like, we won't be able to achieve things and. But okay, before I go into that. So why didn't you think the fame would last?

[Louis Spence]

Because my whole career as from I did my first West End show when I was 12.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And like I say, every job you do in show business has an end. You know, it's not like if you're going to go and work in a bank and you're going to have that for life and be promoted up. And especially, like I say, as a dancer, I could go from pop to West End to commercial stuff. That's fine. But when you're in show business, as in the now I became a celebrity on this side of it. I'd seen that when I was working with people like the Spice Girls or Take that how, you know, when I was working with take that in 1995, they were at the peak. And then, you know, when you see people of such massive celebrity all of a sudden sort of disappearing or they're not spoken about anymore so much, obviously Take that then had a revive. I'm just using them as an example.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

[Louis Spence]

So this little like hiking homosexual with a speech impediment, this ain't gonna last. Right. And there's gonna come a point where I've peaked and I've done celebs on the farm, celebs on the ranch, celebrity big Brother. Anything with celeb in it, darling, I was there. Do you know what I mean? So there's gonna come a time where it's, it's just gonna plateau or it's just gonna fall off. So I'm. I was never expecting even. Not three years of constant work. I was expecting every job would sort of be the last one and not on a negative, on a reality thing of. The fact is, you know, it. Nothing lasts.

[Jamie Laing]

Your mom, Pat passed away in 2012. 2012. How was that? Must mean awful.

[Louis Spence]

So my mum, I mean my mum was my world, you know, she was fantastic. She could never do anything wrong. You know, she was full of anxiety. She was always searching for happiness and that's why she died the way she did. She, My mum, when we were younger was so controlling about because of her anxiety. She'd only ever have two Bacardi and Cokes and a packet of 10 number six cigarettes, push up pack little ones like that. So she. And she, if she ever went. That's only when she. Now she didn't drink at home or anything. Anyway, fast forward so many years I'm in London all this time right up until really 2013 is when I bought the house back in Essex after my mum died. But then I was going home more often and even when I become famous, my mum come done a few bits in the show, you know what I mean? And I didn't realize my mum was drinking and I'm from a normal family where, you know, I think my dad drinks a bottle of wine a day or two.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

Do you know what I mean? It's like, you know, and you know, it's like at the weekend you get drunk.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

Not, not drunk but you know, you have your drinks. My mum never did that. She was always controlling. But anyway, she must have. This is how I get it through my head at one point had that one extra drink rather than the. And just thought, well, actually I feel calm, maybe not happy, but she felt.

[Jamie Laing]

Relaxed because she was always took away the anxiety.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. So obviously what's happened. And I didn't see it and nor did my sisters really. I think my dad did, but my dad was drinking as well. But not. Anyway, I didn't really see it and my sister didn't. My mum was never falling over, she was always. The house was spotless. My dad's tea was always cooked. She was always well presented, never smelt of alcohol. Yeah, whatever. Or I wasn't going home so much anyway. Then I went home. I'd become famous in 2010. So this is in 2012. Just one day I went home and I stayed for a couple of days. Don't ask me why, because, you know, I never sort of went home and stayed. And my mum had this cough and I remember saying. I remember her saying she had to collect some antibiotics from the doctor, but she weren't going to bother. And I remember thinking, that is the weirdest thing, because my mum, if we were. When we were kids, my mum literally, I thought I was going to start ovulating with my sisters because when they started their periods, anything was wrong. I went to the doctors with them as well. We all had the same thing. So one had a cold, we all got antibiotics, you know, so it was really unlike her. And I was thinking, that's strange. Anyway, I thought she looked a little bit sallow, but anyway, she was fine, you know. Anyway, and then the next morning I woke up and I looked at her, I was like, wrong with you. I said, you're like Bart Simpson. Literally. Her skin had gone, like really yellowy like that. And I could see in her face, she went a bit, you know, panicky. Not panicky, but you know what I mean. Anyway, so I got straight down the doctors, you know, I did do the celebrity card a bit, because you can't get a doctor point for love nor money. So I went down there, done a little spin, whatever, said that if you don't see her, then if anything happens to her and, you know, then I'm going to hold you responsible, you know, I'm sure. Juno, don't mess with me. I've been on this morning with Holly and Phil when they were on it. Anyway, so anyway, get to the doctor that said, oh, we'll do some blood tests. I said, what? I said, what are you going to do? Blood tests? I said, look at her. I said, look at the color of her. And I said to him, she looks like Bart Simpson, you know, because we always have a joke about this.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, yeah.

[Louis Spence]

That's how our family is. Anyway, he said, well, you know, I'll bring the hospital, you can take her down there. Took her down to the hospital. She went behind this curtain, the hospital doctor's examiner, and he said, I can see from your records, Mrs. Spence, that you were told to stop drinking last year because you've got cirrhosis of the liver. Anyway, so then she comes out and I go, well, she's. Oh, no, he didn't say that. He didn't say, you know. Anyway, then from then on, like, I was rehearsing for panto on the 2nd of December. So this was a few weeks after. No, she'd already gone into hospital for a little. For about a week.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And they told us that the state of her liver should have five years. So she'd have five years to live because she had damaged her liver that much.

[Jamie Laing]

From alcohol?

[Louis Spence]

Yes, from alcohol. And I swear to God, she was. When I say, I promise you, she didn't smell literally, well presented.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow.

[Louis Spence]

You know what I mean? But what she was doing was. This is how clever they are. What she was doing was she'd always have a water bottle with her. Always have a water bottle with them, always. She had this for years, this water bottle. So vodka doesn't really smell, does it? Yeah, apparently. I don't know because I don't drink. It was vodka in there. So all these years, you know, she's always got this water, but she's knocking back vodka. When she went in hospital, my sister went to have a glass of white wine, my white wine, it was white wine topped up with vodka. And I swear to God. I swear to God, you're going to say, well, how can you see it? Why didn't you know? I wasn't at home so much. My sisters had their own family. My sister's here. But I swear she was well presented, you know. Anyway, so she got taken to hospital for a couple. Did you.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you confront her? You say, what the hell is this?

[Louis Spence]

I said, yeah. And she said, I mean, this is the thing. She said, I don't care if I'm going to die, I die happy. That's what she said, right. What can I say? That's your life. You know, we say, you stop. You know, we send you. So anyway, it was too late for that because then she started this whole hospital thing. Then she went into hospital for a couple of weeks and then I started rehearsal for pantomime. She came out and then within three days later, they took her back in. I was rehearsing on the. It was on the 2nd of December, I got a phone call. Mum's been taken back into hospital, went home, got picked up. My dad and I think, went to the hospital. She's there with the little thing up her nose. A bit of oxygen there. Anyway, then we. We go home and come back, she's got the little mask on like that. Then when we come back, this is all in the same day. So then we say, right, we're going to go and we'll come up in the morning, right? Go back. Two hours later, we get a phone call. You need to come up. You need to come now. It's like, you know, they told us you've got five years to live. All right, it's not great, but she's got five years, you know. Anyway, we come back up, we get taken to a room and they say to us, do you want to resuscitate? What? No one has come and said, like, you know, this is. We think that, you know, she's on her way out kind of thing. No one had said even that. Just my dad was, like, in shock. Like what? You know. Anyway, we said yes because we were in such shock. We're like, someone told us, you got five years. You're telling us she's gonna die, you know. So we went straight in the room this time. When we're in the room, she had this mask all over her face. It's like a snorkel mask all over her face. It's a big tube. And the oxygen, you can see it going up and down like this. Anyway, she's on morphine and everything. Then we're there for, like hours. And then she's out of it on this morphine. She's just, like, out of it. Then she sits bolt up, right, like this. She takes this mask off face, which is the only way she can breathe, otherwise she can't breathe. And she says, no, she takes it off her face and I sort of push back down. I'm trying to push this mask back on her face and calling for the nurse. No nurse came, she sat back up, took it off and said, I've had enough. What? Completely coherent, like from on morphing like that, as clear as day, completely. I've had enough. She took the mask off. I mean, I put it back on her face once. I thought, well, what do I do? We're calling for. No, she took her mask off and I swear, within 10 or 20 seconds, she just went like that. You heard this horrible gurgle. It's like a. I don't know, it's like the fluid or whatever. And she turned her head, a bit of dribble, and she was dead. That was it.

[Jamie Laing]

Oh, my God.

[Louis Spence]

And, yeah, my worst nightmare had come true. The fact she was dead and I was just in complete shock. And everyone else around me was like, crying. Everything. I was just like. And after five minutes, this is the thing I regret. I took my dad out. I said, come on, we're going home now. I was very matter of fact, I said, right, what do we do? Next morning, I'll come and, you know, get A death certificate. I said, all right, then, you're fine. Literally arrange the funeral. On my day off from panto. And I was. That was on the third. I was in pink tights and tattoos on the fifth, doing pantomime. And that was it. It was. It was. It didn't affect me for years. Two years after, I just didn't. And it was. It was. She drowned. That's all I say. People, you know, it. The thing is, it's really difficult because you're thinking, they chose to leave you. Why did they leave me like that? And I have. I don't. I don't blame her for anything. She was an addict, you know, she. She made that choice along with not having the strength to not. And it was too late anyway, in a sense, you know, she would. Well, I say, live five years. I don't blame her. It still hurts, the fact that she chose alcohol, you know, over my dad and us. But she didn't, because she couldn't.

[Jamie Laing]

Because she's. And it's a disease.

[Louis Spence]

She. She couldn't. She couldn't make that choice. But also, my grandmother died of alcoholism. My grandmother, her aunt died of. My mom's aunt. My mom. Nan, my mom's mum's sister, died of alcoholism. My uncle just died of alcoholism.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow.

[Louis Spence]

Her brother and my mum.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow. It's. And it's hereditary.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. There's definitely something in about. But I don't drink. My sisters don't really drink either, but there's definitely something.

[Jamie Laing]

So she left you?

[Louis Spence]

Did she leave you? I'll tell you why she. Hang on, this is the point. Now I understand. I think I try and understand it because my mum was never happy either. She was always searching for something. She was. My mum was jolly and laughing and she, you know, she could be the life and soul and she was really funny, you know, But I think the reason the drink took over, because she was the same. She was looking for something that wasn't there. She was searching for happiness and not about the love of her children. That gave her. Not the love my dad gave her. She couldn't find happiness in herself and that's why she died the way she did. And I completely understand that. And that's why I don't blame her. I wouldn't blame her anyway, but because I think that she just chose to carry on with it and die because.

[Jamie Laing]

The other side was so much harder.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. I mean, it's so powerful. You and your sisters are breaking the cycle.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Which is amazing.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Like, I Said, yeah, I mean, I'm just too controlling to.

[Jamie Laing]

What's so interesting for me is when you said like it was all of your worst fears ever since you were a kid. And it happened and then it happened right in front of me.

[Louis Spence]

And I was so matter of fact, when it happened three years later, I broke down. Did you? That's when I went.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow. So you, you held it? Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

Oh, no, no. About a year. No, about a year. Two. Two year. Two years after that's when I first went on medication because I had to do the medication as an intervention. Not that I was going to kill myself, but I was so. I was so low, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't move my. I, I have thought I. I mean, I was going insane. I mean, I felt like I was going. And apart from mentally, I had this constant feeling of that I was going to. I couldn't breathe and that my heart was racing and that I had pins and needles in my tongue. My hands were numb, you know, I was dizzy, I couldn't focus, you know, all of this. So that's when I went on the medication. And then like I say, then I realized that wasn't for me either.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you ever think about having children? Or was that a. Was that a responsibility? Too much?

[Louis Spence]

No, no. Well, my husband, my husband's Spanish, so, you know, from a big Latino family. You know, he's very family orientated. He's in fact brought. My family's very close, but he's, you know, we're constantly. Have dinners at mine and whatever because he's a real, you know, bring family together. Now we did speak about it after I'd sort of first became famous. So in like 2011, maybe 2012.

[Jamie Laing]

How long you guys been together?

[Louis Spence]

We've been together 25 years now. And we did, we did speak about it. So if you've got to think, then I would say I became famous at 41. So it was about 42. So, you know, there was a whole thing. So 42, so another 20 years I'll be 62. That's still young enough. So we did speak about it, but then one my anxiety kicked in. I thought, actually the sound of it is nice. And I know when people say, like my sisters would say to me, but you just learn to do these things right, that's fine. Because when you're heterosexual, you can just happen to get pregnant and you go through with it like it's, fuck, we've done it, let's have the baby. Yeah, now that's not going to happen when you're gay. It's a very. It's a very conscious decision. Okay. Mentally, I thought I could not have a child because I would worry that, like every parent does, I'm sure they're going to die, that it can't breathe. What if they get ill once they start to go to school, and then I won't know where they are. What if I can't provide for them, whatever. And like I say, when you're heterosexual and your wife gets pregnant, it's a joyous thing. And it's like you don't have a choice in a set. Well, you do, but you have that choice. It's natural. It's what happens. But like I say, when you don't have that natural ability, it's a very conscious thought. And when I see gay parents, I think it's amazing. And it's so joyous. And anxiety and depression can make you the most selfish person in the world. Because when I'm having my bouts of it, which is like I say, I'm like this. I don't want to speak to anyone. I don't. I get very quiet. I get very dark. There's a voice in my head telling me, get out of this, get out of this, get out of this. But I can't get out. And I can only get out when I'm ready. And for anyone else within that thing, it's like they don't exist. Yeah, my husband could go or my family could go because I. I just can't get out.

[Jamie Laing]

It's a really interesting way to put it. So the thought of having kids is too much. You wouldn't. You can't.

[Louis Spence]

No.

[Jamie Laing]

It's so fearful to put yourself. That's what I was getting at.

[Louis Spence]

Like, I say so in one.

[Jamie Laing]

Because it's the biggest responsibility.

[Louis Spence]

Oh, there's no way. There's just, you know. So is that.

[Jamie Laing]

Can I ask, is that. And I want to go back to your childhood, but is that sometimes because of your anxiety or depression, because your mental health that's hindered you from doing things? Do you sometimes.

[Louis Spence]

So many things.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you sometimes go. I just. Why me?

[Louis Spence]

Oh, absolutely. All the time. Well, I've got to. That. I've got to that point now, actually, at the age I am now of realizing that I've always had this from a child in different forms. Yeah. I've sort of got past the why me now? And I have got to terms with the fact this is just who I am. And I have tried. I have tried. I've Done every therapy you can think of. Talking therapy, acupuncture, cranial osteopathy. It's this, it's that, it's, you know, eating this food, eating that food. Medication, you know, antidepressants. I've done it, all, right?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And I have certain. There's certain. The antidepressants put you on a level of nothing. You have no emotion. You have no empathy. I mean, someone could drop dead and you would step over them. You can't. You cannot cry. No sex, because you don't want sex. You have no. And you can't even get an erection anyway. Do you know what I mean? Because the antidepressants are giving you erectile dysfunction. I'll get back to a story on that in a minute. So sometimes I do some. Sometimes I do that. Why me? And I just wish. Like, this sounds really awful. We have a flat in Waterloo. Yeah, haven't been there for years. And I used to walk home from work and there was always the same guy, homeless guy, and I should give him. Buy him cigarettes or give him some money or give him. And I remember one day, I see him convolting and I was freaking out. Anyway, he got some help, and then two days later, he was back there kind of thing. And I remember, like, literally walking past thinking, I bet he's happier than me. Because the fact is, every day is a battle for me to get through. Because with the physical anxiety, the panic attacks, you think you're gonna die when your heart races, all of that. So you have this whole physical anxiety, then the mental anxiety. And I think. But it's really hard to die as well because this guy is, like, abusing himself with, like, drugs, alcohol, and he won't die, but he's still back there. And he's obviously a cog in his head, but I would compare myself to.

[Jamie Laing]

Him and just go. And I think a lot that happens a lot of the time where you compare yourself.

[Louis Spence]

What does make you happy?

[Jamie Laing]

Like, you know, and you can't understand it.

[Louis Spence]

He's got that. And we're both battling this kind of thing, but he's like, literally, I don't drink. I don't take drugs, because I'd be the one what would, you know, have a. A reaction to the drugs. And I don't, like, drink because then I'm out of control, because then I can't get home. I got all this kind of thing. And I think, look him there. He's like, you don't give a fuck. And he doesn't care. If he even dies.

[Jamie Laing]

And you'll think in your head, I have all of these things happening. I have all of these things. I have a flannel Waterloo. I have everything going for me, and I'm still not happy. Why am I not happy? Yeah, why can't I find that?

[Louis Spence]

That is. That is the word happy. And this is what I said to. This is. This is the thing with my anxiety and depression is that with. When I made all of. All of this happened, you think that paying your bills, not actually having a house, let alone not having a mortgage, I thought, oh, you know, never have, like, a house in the country with a lake and room for a small pony. But like I say, you know, that's the word. And that's what I would say to my husband. And God knows why he's still there. He's the most incredible person. But I would say, I can't find happiness. And you know what if you were to go on my Instagram, right? And I know my Instagram isn't the world with my followers, but, you know, I'll put posts up, you know, and I'm like, most of the time I post, I'm not going to put posts up saying, oh, God, I feel really bad today and I'm in a black hole because it's the last thing I want to do. I don't want to go on Instagram.

[Jamie Laing]

Or be and be out there doing it.

[Louis Spence]

So the posts I do normally are when I'm on my jollier side and nearly 100% of my comments are people. Oh, you're my therapy. You're my sunshine. You make me so happy. Or you make me laugh. Right. Which is wonderful, you know, and that is part of me. And I think I make all these people so happy. But then I can't seem to find happiness for myself. And it's not like I don't have an incredible husband. An incredible. There's nothing. I am loved. But that's the word you can't find. It's like, why can't I find happiness?

[Jamie Laing]

But, Lou, if I asked you, if I asked you to think of a time in your life that you remember was happy, when were you happiest?

[Louis Spence]

See how hard it is? Because I've been like this for so long now. Really? Yeah. I mean, literally, I mean, no, don't get me wrong. I'm not. I don't walk around, but I say, but you.

[Jamie Laing]

But Churchill, Winston Churchill used to call it the black dog. He always said that there was a black dog always chasing him. His depression, it was always there. Whatever he was doing, it was always slightly there. And I think a lot of people, whether you suffer with anxiety or insomnia or OCD or depression, it's always kind of there. But what do you remember? There was a time when you were like, oh, this is just brilliant.

[Louis Spence]

See, that's really hard. There's moments I've had when I've done things like, you know, when I was dancing or whatever, you know, felt wonderful in front of an audience and that, but it wasn't in my general life. But look, don't get me wrong, I am. I'm not. I don't want to sound like a victim, and I'm always so unhappy. I am not. But what I'm saying is I. My husband, for example, listens to podcasts all the time on his headphones. He walks around the house laughing. And, you know, and I listen to him, you know, every day. I think, God, that's amazing.

[Jamie Laing]

So lucky to be that free.

[Louis Spence]

Because free or free, he laughs all the time and he belly laughs. I can hear him if he's upstairs going, I can't remember the last time I laughed like that. That's how, you know, I can't remember the last time. You know, when you just laugh and you just laugh, that you cry and it hurts.

[Jamie Laing]

When you came here, right? You and the times that I've met you, you've been enlarged in the life character. You're always fun, you make everyone feel good. You almost give everyone else joy and forget to give yourself joy. And you said when you were a kid, you had. So do you always remember, ever since you were young, having this? From what age?

[Louis Spence]

Well, when I was younger, it was more anxiety, as in, I would have physical anxiety. So I would get like, where are.

[Jamie Laing]

We living at the moment? Where. Where were you?

[Louis Spence]

Oh, I'm talking when I was eight, like, the first time I had it, when I was. And you were in Essex, I was in Essex. I was in my MFI bed with Chester drawers underneath. I don't know if you'd know what MFI was. It was like a really cheap B and Q. Anyway, they used to make this furniture out of plywood.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And it was this white, you know, that shiny, kind of cheap. Anyway, I was in the box room. My sisters had the big room, three of them in there. One of them used to piss the bed, so I was quite glad I weren't in there. Anyway, she used to have an alarm that used to go off every night. She had this sheet under her Bed and a plastic sheet, and every time she started to piss, the alarm went off. So I thought, I'm glad I'm not in that room anyway.

[Jamie Laing]

And wait, there's three sisters.

[Louis Spence]

Three sisters? Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And older than you?

[Louis Spence]

Two older. I'm the third. And then I've got a younger one.

[Jamie Laing]

Amazing.

[Louis Spence]

Anyway, so I remember I. My heart was beating so strong, but as a kid, it didn't freak me out. I just didn't know what it was. And I remember because you're not.

[Jamie Laing]

You're not. You're not experienced with it. You don't know what.

[Louis Spence]

My anxiety was. Having a, you know, a racing heart. And I remember putting a pillow on my chest to go to sleep because then I couldn't feel the heartbeat through my mattress. So I can remember back that young. And then when I was 12, then I started to have, like, just feelings of. Like this feelings of whooshy dizziness, like, you know, and it was. There was nothing wrong with me. I. You know, I got checked. There was nothing wrong, but just these weird feelings.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And when you suffer from anxiety, if you look at symptoms, you can go from dizziness, you can go from losing your sight. You know, there's all different. There's all different things. Not permanently losing your sight, but if you get. If you have an anxiety attack, you think your vision's going. And anyway, so lots of different things from when I was younger and all the way through my career as a dancer, it then develops into phobias.

[Jamie Laing]

But what was happening? If you go back to 8 years old and you're lying in your bed and you're three sisters in your own room and you're in Essex, what is going on at home?

[Louis Spence]

What is happening? No, I thought my parents were gonna die. I think lots of children have that feeling that their parents are gonna die, you know, what if something happens to them? My parents are incredible. Working class, you know, we never had loads, but we had everything we needed. We were always clean, we always love, yet we had love. Not, not, not physical cuddles. But we were, we, we, they. We were loved by. They gave us everything they had, you know, but, you know, the fear of, like, if my parents went out and we had a babysitter, then the fear that they're going to have a car crash and not. And this is like, at a young age. I think lots of children have.

[Jamie Laing]

Lots of children. Yeah, I know you do. Lots of.

[Louis Spence]

I think it's that fear of, you know, losing.

[Jamie Laing]

It's like separation anxiety that then you've had the fear that something else worse is going to happen.

[Louis Spence]

But also I do think it's just in my genetics, my mu. A very anxious person. Like she had a nervous breakdown after she had three children by the age of 19. In between 17 and 19, nervous breakdown after each one. She was on uppers and downers because her mum was very anxious and she had put her on uppers and downers from when my mum was about 12. Because they didn't used to have like medication we have now, you know, not like all the sertraline and cetrilopram and all these other ones. It was uppers or downers or Valiums. And so my mum had been addicted to these as well, because she was. As a child, she would have anxiety and pass out. You know, my sister would have anxiety. My sister's one who wet the bed. She would wake up in the middle of the night in anxiety and just collapse, you know, pass out, you know, right into, you know, right into adulthood, you know. All my family suffer with forms of anxiety.

[Jamie Laing]

And so it's hereditary, you think?

[Louis Spence]

I think there's partly nurture, partly hereditary. Genetic, was it?

[Jamie Laing]

And at school, when you were at school, you. I. I read that you said you weren't bullied at all because you were the life and soul of the. The party. You made everyone laugh and everything.

[Louis Spence]

I never. I was. I can, I can't say I'm one of these, like, what are we called now, darling? They've got so many letters after our freaking Alphabet now. We're queer now, aren't we? Gay, queer. I don't know anymore. It's too much for me even. Fuck knows what the heterosexuals do. I don't even know what my own community is called anymore. I'm so confused. I honestly. And I mean that in the most loving way. I love everyone. I don't care what let you are. I fucking love you. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? But I get confused. But we're queer. We've reclaimed the words. Yay. Hallelujah.

[Jamie Laing]

So when did you realize that you were queer?

[Louis Spence]

Oh, I mean, I think when I fancied Mr. Whippy.

[Jamie Laing]

Get out of here.

[Louis Spence]

No word of a lie. No, you're lying. I used to fancy Mr. Whippy. I think I was about the ice cream. Yeah, the ice cream man, Mr. Whippy. I was seven or eight and I think that's why I like Latino men. He was dark and I did. He was always really nice to me. He gave me extra sauce and nuts on the 99. He did and he was so nice to me. I did have fancy Mr. Whippy. I remember it was a cream van on the top, pink at the bottom and had his little white coat. I said, can I have extra nuts and sauce?

[Jamie Laing]

And he's good. And so you realized then that you.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah, I fancied Mr. Whippy.

[Jamie Laing]

But were you nervous to say it? Were you nervous to say that, Oh, I think that I fancy voice.

[Louis Spence]

No, no, I never said it. I never even said I'm gay. I never said I fancy. I just didn't. It just. I was just you. Yeah. And I was brought up on a council estate and everyone was, we all just hung out and played together. I had two older sisters and it was a very close knit community on the estate. You know, my neighbors, you know, there were seven in their family. Then we had the Joneses up the number three, the Sherlock's next door and then we had, you know, the people around the corner.

[Jamie Laing]

It's like a big tribe, it's like.

[Louis Spence]

And you all hung out together. So no one, no one really mentioned the fact that I was, you know, like spinning around, doing like cartwheels and you know. And also I remember Nadine Lester, you always remember the names. Nadine Lester became carnival princess. I was beside myself when she got the fucking tiara. I went straight round her house, fucking tiara on. I got my old neck and put it. I fucking minced around the estate with the tiara on, thinking I was, you know, the carnival princess. But no, I never felt different. I never felt as though anyone bullied me. I had an amazing childhood.

[Jamie Laing]

Isn't that amazing though? It's amazing that you didn't feel that way because there's so many people I've spoken to. I spoke to Luke Evans, the actor. Luke Evans had a terrible time growing up in Wales. There were lots of things going on and he sort of covered up his eye, his sexual identity, didn't want anyone to know. He felt embarrassed about it and he had an awful time doing it. And there are other people like yourself who had had a brilliant time and an amazing time. And were you happy then?

[Louis Spence]

I think yeah, actually when I was young, like then, can you remember looking.

[Jamie Laing]

Back going, God, that was a happy time.

[Louis Spence]

I, I do look upon those times as being happy. Like I say, the, the anxiety had. There was. I didn't understand it.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

So it, it wasn't an issue. Once you understand and then you try to try and self diagnose it as you get older and think that you've got brain cancer, you've got stomach cancer, you've got pancreatic cancer. I mean, I went through that whole. What is it called, what's name? Anxiety. Health anxiety. You know, there wasn't a thing I didn't have checked and I didn't have, you know, apart from a vagina, you know, I mean, that's the only thing I thought, you know, that's definitely not.

[Jamie Laing]

Well, because you had this. There was done with bigger balls because you. There's a.

[Louis Spence]

The.

[Jamie Laing]

The moment which you said the health anxiety really kicked in is when you were young and you thought you had aids. When the.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah, I mean, as soon as them adverts started on the tv, you wouldn't remember, you would have been far too young. There was adverts on the TV saying AIDS kills. And it had a tombstone. I don't think you've ever seen that advert replayed. And it was all dark lightning. And then this tombstone would fall and go. Not only was that on the tv, then you'd get these leaflets through the door. So I remember picking the leaflet up and then, I mean, at 12, I knew that I was gay, you know, after I thought, you know, looking at the boys who had already had pubic hairs at like 12, you know, in the changing room, thinking then quite big, you know, and thinking, there's a bit of an interest there. Then I sort of, you know, I knew I was. I liked boys, I suppose I knew I liked boys when I was about.

[Jamie Laing]

But you. But you kind of like.

[Louis Spence]

It wasn't.

[Jamie Laing]

It wasn't a thing.

[Louis Spence]

No.

[Jamie Laing]

You don't think it's subconscious?

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. I wasn't. I wasn't trying to have sex with anyone or. I wasn't, I wasn't. I wasn't active in that way mentally. But I didn't tell anyone. But like I said, why did I have to? Because everyone just liked me anyway, so what age.

[Jamie Laing]

So can I ask a really personal question? What age? When did you have your first sexual experience?

[Louis Spence]

19.

[Jamie Laing]

So much so then. So what was the fear of then getting AIDS when you were so young?

[Louis Spence]

Because I see the adverts on the TV saying that if you're gay then. And then on the. You'd see things on the news. So it was all these gay people, men who liked men who were dying. So I knew that I didn't like girls, apart from wanting to put like, you know, Nadine Lester's tiara on, you know, apart from that I knew. So I knew that I was what they were saying. So that's sort of How I identified with who I was through these people dying. Actually, you know what, you might have just hit the now and then. That's maybe where I've become totally up as always thinking I was going to die. Yeah. But literally identified with these people what are dying. And, and I remember, see, wow, how.

[Jamie Laing]

Interesting is that, that you. That even though you weren't having any sexual experience because you identified as suddenly that you like boys.

[Louis Spence]

And it was on the TV all the time about this, you know, this disease, the gays, this disease, you know, they're infecting the world. And I thought, well, that, that, that's obviously if I like boys, then I'm going to get that if I have sex. And I remember.

[Jamie Laing]

So you never, you never wanted.

[Louis Spence]

I didn't even had sex and I thought I had it.

[Jamie Laing]

It's insane that an advertisement, an advert can make you have that much anxiety. That's what it did to you. So did you then not want to have any sort of sexual interaction with anyone because you were so scared?

[Louis Spence]

Wow. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

So then when you did first have your first sexual experience, were you not terrified afterwards or were you okay?

[Louis Spence]

Yes, absolutely.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you talk to anyone about how you were feeling?

[Louis Spence]

No, but then I had really frigid, like relationships, as in I wouldn't be adventurous in sex, you know, I wouldn't want to do things because I would think even though you're my boyfriend. Because I had a boyfriend, you know, I had my first boyfriend, seven years, he was wonderful. But in my head I was always thinking, I can't trust him because I can only trust myself because he might be going out and shagging someone else, even though Sandy loves. So in my mind I'm always.

[Jamie Laing]

I was thinking the worst.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. And then that, that's the thing like this, this thing about the anxiety about dying. And I thought, well, if I am going to die, I don't want to die like that. Because the only way I'd seen people die with HIV that then developed AIDS in the very early 80s. It was so tragic.

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Are you ready to get spicy?

[Louis Spence]

These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy.

[Jamie Laing]

Maybe it's time to turn up the.

[Louis Spence]

Heat or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha. Spicy but not too spicy.

[Jamie Laing]

Can we talk about stagecore quickly? Because I read your. Yeah, amazing. And your. Your parents remortgaged their house to pay for your school fees.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah, well, I mean, the thing is, that's when Margaret Thatcher sold all the council houses. That's why there's nowhere for anyone to live now because they were all sold up then. But it was a great thing to do because I think my, my parents bought their house, I don't know, maybe for £27,000 or something. A three bedroom semi, you know, and, you know, my dad was at the limit. My mum was like working two jobs. I've got three sisters.

[Jamie Laing]

Your mum was working in a factory and she was also a. Yeah, yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And she was also a cleaner at the school.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

And my dad was like a painter and Decker worked in the tire factory. You know, they, they just, like I say, we had a lot of love.

[Jamie Laing]

So you've seen hard work.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah, they, they, they. But I wanted to go and I'm sure, like I said, I've said it before, my dad's answer would have been no, I'm sure because he couldn't take any more on. He couldn't take any more on, you know, it was just too much. But my mum would have convinced him.

[Jamie Laing]

And you had a good relationship with your dad?

[Louis Spence]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, my dad lives with me now.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. When my mum died, we. I moved back to Essex and bought a house and my dad lived with me and my husband. So. Yeah, I mean, but when I was younger, I did not have a bad relationship with him, but I didn't have a relationship with him because he was always working. Yeah, everything was just through my mum, mum.

[Jamie Laing]

So then, so then they, so then they remortgaged the house and they said, you can go to this dance school.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. And you know, it paid off in the end because, like I say, it's like, you know, 20 or 30 years later. I paid off their mortgage, of course. You know, so it sort of finally sort of got there. But it was a big. It was a big thing for them to do, especially my dad, because I say, my mum, I mean, if she wanted something, she'd get. You know, we'd have the profit man. I don't even know a proper man is. No, you wouldn't. You. Two parts. So the profit man, would you come and knock on our door? He's someone you'd borrow money off, like a bit of a loan shark.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay.

[Louis Spence]

They used to go around the council estates and I think his name was Ian. It was quite nice, actually. I fancied him. And the profit man. Anyway, so the profit man would lend you money, so if you needed £100 or 200, and then you'd pay him back. And obviously with a lot more to pay.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

So every time, it's like, profiman, like, we'd have to fucking close the curtains, hide behind the sofa and don't make a noise. And he'd be shouting through the letterbox saying, we know you're in there. No way. Because my mum would always borrow money off the proving man. See, my dad didn't know because the proving man would always come round before the husband's come home from work, really, because it was always the wife got borrowed money for everything.

[Jamie Laing]

Was that scary?

[Louis Spence]

No, not really. Because it happened all the time, you know, once a week, he'd always knock on the door until she had something to give him. We'd just always be hiding behind the sofa, which he paid for. Lovely draylon sofa we had in the 70s, darling. Brown Draylon and a shag pile. Honestly. My dad built a brick wall. We had. We had patio doors at the back. Honestly, double glazing. We were so posh on the estate.

[Jamie Laing]

But you went to this dance school. How good were you? Honestly? Does it separate yourself from your own? How good were you?

[Louis Spence]

I was. I think I had a natural ability, so I was lucky. I didn't have to fight for dance. I was never a triple threat, as in singer. My singing was awful. I mean, I suppose I could act a bit, but the dancing, it was a natural ability, you know, I was like.

[Jamie Laing]

You could just feel it. You could just feel it.

[Louis Spence]

I could just do it. Nothing was a struggle for me. My body. I had to. I could do splits, I could do backflips. I didn't have to Push myself. So I had a natural, A natural talent in that.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you love it?

[Louis Spence]

I loved it, but it needed to be nurtured and, you know, at stage school, I must say, at stage school, I didn't really learn a lot more than what I did. I think I was kept back a bit because some people weren't as advanced as me, naturally. But I learned how to be, you know, a fabulous gay and tap dance, you know, honestly. And like I say, you know, I met some incredible people. The environment was full of young, like from 12 to 16 year olds in the lower school who were just like. It was like fame. It was like what you see on tv.

[Jamie Laing]

This is Italian context.

[Louis Spence]

People would sing and dance and people would camp and funny and you just. I just learned so much about life and being with like, you know, you had the me who was there, you know, my parents scraping every penny. Then you'd have people like yourself or not you actually, because you'd never have got in. But you'd have like three members from one family and their parents were paying for that. Who. They would stay in their dad's flat when we're at the Barbican. In Barbican, because their dad had a flat, you know, so there's a real mix of people.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you feel, especially back then, was the sense of opportunity so exciting? Yeah. Like it was everything to play for.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah, yeah. Because they had an agency at the school as well. So then you'd do, you know, there'd be a notice come up on the board of who was going to do Grange Hill, which was a show there, like as an extra. And then I was in Bugsy Malone in the West End, you know, that was your first role, like in the West End. Yeah. So you know who's going to audition and then when you get the job and you know, so you go and see on the ball, there's an audition coming up for. I suppose now it'd be like, you know, if the kids were there for the Harry Potter films or whatever, you know, they'd be the audition. So they go to all them schools first. So it was fantastic. It was absolutely incredible, you know.

[Jamie Laing]

Was there a part of you? Because I think a lot of. I remember acting and wanting to go into acting and being on stage and being in front of audience because I think I definitely felt a sense of a real sense that we all do have insecurity and I thought being in front of people, being on stage where you were loved, would cure a lot of things I had that was giving me Some validation. Do you have any of that? Or you just actually just love performing?

[Louis Spence]

No, I just love performing. I mean, there's nothing like. I mean, I love performing because when I dance, like I say when I did something, I did feel like sometimes, like, when you do things like, I call it a turn for now, like a pirouette, it's when you turn on one foot or something, or you jump in the air, you know, or you do, like I used to do lots of flips, like somersault. And there's a moment where you feel suspended. Like when you're doing somersault in the air and you feel amazing, you can literally feel yourself going through there and you can see the ground and. And you know that you are looking amazing. I knew I was fucking great at tumbling, you know, and you just knew. And that feeling that you knew you were incredibly better than anyone else at that point. And the whole room is looking at you and they're all your, like, peers, all other people, but you're that little bit better than them at that. Do you know what I mean? There was no better feeling than that.

[Jamie Laing]

There was something there.

[Louis Spence]

And it wasn't about the applause from the audience that came after. With becoming a public figure and knowing that I could, like you say, I can't help myself when I come in here. They put me in a room downstairs, which was lovely, I must say. Lovely little room, nice decoration, same as wherever else. Not enough sweets in that. Said, I didn't see any sweets in there, so I thought, I'm not sitting in here. So I went straight upstairs, yeah, went straight into the room with the girls, had a chat with the girls and the dog found out one of the girls went to the same school as me. And then, you know, I went in and see, the marketing team asked, my sales was going, sales are good. I said, well, that's good. And then I got to eat the new peanuts, you know, which are new, the chocolate peanut ones. And I said, my husband get me some of them from Tesco's, but actually they're nowhere near as good. And I'm not just saying that because the Tesco ones, the chocolate's not very healthy, not very nice chocolate, and it doesn't have the crunch. Anyway. So I just went and introduced myself. Then I went up to the top office where you've got your accounts or whatever, and then the, you know, we. There's a little boardroom at the end.

[Jamie Laing]

And you've always been like this.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. Oh, I can't help myself.

[Jamie Laing]

But what is the what is the difference between going to that I have.

[Louis Spence]

People I love, people I love, I love just like everyday people and I feel as though I can, I, I know I have the ability to walk into a room, you can light it up. You could have like I say the straightest, maybe homophobic in a sense person and I know I could make them smile or I could do something or I know that I could make that room laugh and I do it in a way sometimes with shock factor but I'd never do it in a way where I'm being insulting someone or if I thought I would never pick on someone to make them feel uncomfortable to get a laugh for myself.

[Jamie Laing]

No, you would never, you would never.

[Louis Spence]

Do it self deprecating, you know what I mean? But I like that and then I see they smile and they laugh and it, yeah, that gives me joy.

[Jamie Laing]

But what was it like going to, you know, going to your school, performing there but then going back to Essex? Was it completely two different lives or not really?

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. Would you know that's the thing. I didn't really used to go back, did you know? No.

[Jamie Laing]

It was the age of 12 once.

[Louis Spence]

I was in London, that was it. And even for one of my sister's weddings, I say one of them because it wasn't the first one. I didn't even bother going back. I was like, I was living this, I, I love them. Of course like I say, one of my sisters lives with me as well now. Do you know what I mean? She's in the annex darling that I had to build, you know, so we're a very close family. But at that time did you lose.

[Jamie Laing]

Yourself in that sort of.

[Louis Spence]

Oh absolutely. And I'd always ring home every night and say hello Mum, yeah, what's going on? Yeah, right Leah, love you, bye. But things like weddings I thought wasn't exciting. I don't give a shit about. I don't want to go and go to fucking wedding and you know, it's like I couldn't, I couldn't be bothered which sounds wrong because, but you know by that time I think my sisters had two kids each. Anyway they were getting married, they'd already done the date.

[Jamie Laing]

What was the excitement? Where was the, where was the drive? What were you, what were you seeking? What you after? What did you. What was more fun? Was it the party, the connection, the roles? What was it?

[Louis Spence]

No, I mean what staying? Like not going home?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, not going home and being there.

[Louis Spence]

I was just like I say I was just. I had my friends and we had our flat and we had our. Our world. Yeah, we would do like, you know, go and do dance class in the morning and the afternoon, go back, shower, pick up a free fly from a gay bar. So on Monday night we'd go down to. I think it was Bang, which used to be a story on Tottenham Court Road. Tuesday night we'd go to Daisy Chain, which was in Brixton. Never paid to get in because you already get the flyer thing.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

Wednesday night we'd go to Pyramid at Heaven. Thursday night we'd go to Bang. Friday night we would go somewhere else. Saturday night, heaven again, you know, so it was like our world was taken up. We're doing class and like I say, I was in that circle of like, this community of people where, like, you know, just. It was constant laughter and fun and.

[Jamie Laing]

You just felt there, you felt at home, you felt like your families, you didn't want to leave, that it was.

[Louis Spence]

Too empty when you left it, you know, it just felt so flat, you know. And like I say, being immersed in musical theater and with people from the theater, you know, you have like. You know, people say that I can be funny and that I'm entertaining, I can do this. I learned this from people in the theater. There's people who work in the theater or in show business who just haven't made it, haven't had that lucky break. Well, there's not loads of me around, but there's lots of people who are very funny, quick witted and from being a dancer, I'm very physical when I, you know, if I explain something, I'll be, you know, you know, and then I give it a yes, and that's what gets the laugh. It's the physicality. Do you know what I mean?

[Jamie Laing]

Yes.

[Louis Spence]

So. And when you've got a group of people like that, you can imagine that you're all not fighting for the attention, but it's just.

[Jamie Laing]

Louis, was there a point? Because, see, you're in this, you're dancing, you're having the best time. It's all going, going, going, going. Everything's great. Was there a point when suddenly everything just started to, like, move away? And then suddenly this sort of quiet came in. Because I remember when I was 27, I remember it must have been 26, 27, and I was doing a TV show, I was going out, I was having fun. It was just great. I was like, everything, everything. And then I remember 27 years old and. And it was in the summer and I was meant to go and film in France and I Suddenly just sat there in my flat and I went, wow, I feel really lonely.

[Louis Spence]

No, that didn't happen to me until after I became known. Because like I say, I've always suffered with the anxiety and the depression and the lows and the, the. All of that, but that real emptiness.

[Jamie Laing]

It was suddenly covered up with all the stuff that was going on.

[Louis Spence]

That real emptiness, I suppose, came when I became famous. So before that that emptiness wasn't there as much because there was always this community of people, you know. And then when I moved back to Essex, you know, after I became famous, there was more time to think, more time. And also I was older then, but yeah, that emptiness came after. I had money, security, an incredible husband, wonderful family, but I still felt, like I say that I felt empty. So searching. Why was I empty? What is it? What is it? What is it that will make me happy? What am I searching for? And it's not knowing. And still now I think I'm better than I was. But I do think I, I don't want to die. I don't want to be on my deathbed and think. So every day, not. Well, yeah, most days I struggle to try and be happier than I am because I don't want to be in my deathbed and say I was always concerned about not being happy or worrying about this or worrying about that. And now I'm. I'm dead or I'm done.

[Jamie Laing]

You don't want to spend your whole life thinking about that, then suddenly get to a point where it's like, well.

[Louis Spence]

The hell I'm better than I was. Because I remember that in my 20s, I remember thinking I'd be dead by the time I was about 30. Why do I. No idea. Just thought I would make. Because I.

[Jamie Laing]

Obviously, because you were chaotic and you're all okay.

[Louis Spence]

I had this physical anxiety, so I thought I'd been to the brain specialists, I'd been to the, you know, I'd had stomach cancer. I hadn't, you know, but you convince yourself so much that I would come out in rashes, that I would, you know, because you're so. And I remember thinking, and then I remember thinking, once I got past that age, well, I'm not dead. And then, you know, so as I'm getting older and I'm getting closer to death in the sense of I've got. I'm on the last leg of my life. Do you know what I mean? I'm not middle aged anymore. I'm beyond middle aged, you know what I mean? So.

[Jamie Laing]

And then suddenly the anxiety sort of starts to come back because you're almost like worried about. You're worried about something that's not going to happen, but then when you get near it, you then start worrying about it. So it's like a whole life.

[Louis Spence]

So, in fact, I'm try. I try not. I don't do that as much now. But it is that thing of, like when people say, you know, oh, you know, live for the moment, live for the day. It's fucking hard. You know, it's easy to say. And you can do your fucking chakras and your breathing and, you know, your humrung, a ding, a danga. Do you know what I mean? I like a big donga. Do you know, you can do it as much as you like, darling, but, you know, it works that moment. Like for me, all of those things, the breathing, the yoga, all of those things at a moment, they will work. And I know you have to practice it every day in that. But sometimes you don't practice it that next day because you'll wake up that next day and you're in that hole again. So you don't care about practicing that because you don't care about anything.

[Jamie Laing]

What's your greatest achievement, personally?

[Louis Spence]

Oh, well, I think. I think. I don't know. That's so hard because I get through every day. I mean, I mean, I don't mean that in a dramatic way. I just mean I. I really don't. I really don't know. Like I say, there's the, the, you know, I think being in a relationship.

[Jamie Laing]

For 25 years, I think I was.

[Louis Spence]

Just about to say, I think being with my husband, but I don't know if that's my achievement or his really, because I wouldn't be with me. And that's not as a drama thing, but because of the way I am, I couldn't cope with someone like me because I would be like, fuck that. I can't fucking live with you. Cause it's bad enough, you know, being me, but fortunately he's not like me. But I think, what a great guy. Yeah, I think it's not so much my achievement, it's his achievement because he's so supportive and yeah, I don't. I do.

[Jamie Laing]

You guys have a great relationship.

[Louis Spence]

We, we do have a really good relationship. A great relationship. But it's. Sometimes I just like, you know, and he will hate me for saying, you know, if he listens this, and I've said it before, I wish I could show him more love because my love has always Been shown through. Not material things. Like with my parents. Like, they would always, like, make sure we were. Well, make sure we had nice clothes, make sure we were clean, make sure we were fed. And that's the kind of way I show my love by, you know, making sure that, you know, I don't want him to ever have to worry about anything.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

Not that he does it. His own man, he can look after himself, but it's just the way I am. That's my way of showing you that, you know, I really care. Like, if he says, oh, I've got a headache, it's for a brain scan. And I'm not joking that, you know what I mean? Because I'm thinking, oh, my God. All right. It's like, no, I'm fine. You know, it's like I've just got a migraine. I'm like, no. You know, so that's my way. But some. I'm not on a. I'm not a. Believe it or not, I'm not a cuddly.

[Jamie Laing]

Are you not?

[Louis Spence]

No, I am with, like, like, like. All right. You know, all of that. But I'm not. I'm not a cuddly, affectionate person. And he really is. I'm a bit of a cold fish.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. But yin and yang is always quite good.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What's the best thing about your husband?

[Louis Spence]

I mean, there's so many. He is honest. Really honest. Really honest, Kind, compassionate. He will hate me saying all these things. Gentle and love. It's just like his unconditional love is just. He's just, you know, I know it sounds really wanky, but like I say, being. I've explained what I'm like, right? How I can not talk and get in all of that. So for someone to be with someone for 25 years and long before we had anything we had financially or the properties or all of that. So that whole period before and still, you know, and really battles to get me out of those situations. Won't give up.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow.

[Louis Spence]

He won't give up.

[Jamie Laing]

Resilience.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. He's a. He's a very, very special person, you know, and he's really handsome. He's really handsome as well. You know, it's like, you know, thank God I just had my eyelids done, darling. Took a few years off me. Do you know what I mean?

[Jamie Laing]

I just want to say, like, you're man, you're just. Your career, life, everything is just amazing. You're.

[Louis Spence]

You're.

[Jamie Laing]

I hope you realize you're an amazing person.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. I mean, look, you should do.

[Jamie Laing]

You're like. You're amazing.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah. I don't think that I'm not a nice person. I don't think I'm amazing. I think I'm a good person. I think you are.

[Jamie Laing]

No. You light up the room. And you're great in every way.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Louis, you have eight questions.

[Louis Spence]

Quite far.

[Jamie Laing]

Are you ready for this?

[Louis Spence]

Oh, God.

[Jamie Laing]

Come on, you got this. Here we go. What's the saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

[Louis Spence]

Oh, fucking no. See? No, no, no. You put me under pressure. Hold on. Let's start again.

[Jamie Laing]

What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

[Louis Spence]

Oh, I don't know.

[Jamie Laing]

It's hard.

[Louis Spence]

Saying or phrase.

[Jamie Laing]

What's a saying or phrase? It makes you smile or cheers you up. It can be anything. It could be I love you. It could be I missed you. It could be welcome home. It could be something your sisters say.

[Louis Spence]

I don't know. Fancy a rim?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. Best compliment anyone's ever given you.

[Louis Spence]

I didn't know you were gay. I was, like, really? Obviously someone was lying. I don't know if it's a compliment.

[Jamie Laing]

Or what scares you most about yourself.

[Louis Spence]

God. Oh, God, there's so many things. What scares me most about myself? The voice in my head.

[Jamie Laing]

When was the last time you cried?

[Louis Spence]

Not fully cried. I, I, I think I was watching something to do with dogs on Instagram. You know, with these abandoned dogs.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Louis Spence]

But I had to turn off before. But I haven't sobbed for years. Not that you know, when you really go.

[Jamie Laing]

When you really go for it. You haven't done that.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What's something you can't let go of?

[Louis Spence]

My husband.

[Jamie Laing]

There we go. What's your guilty pleasure?

[Louis Spence]

I don't feel guilty about anything.

[Jamie Laing]

Would you love that? Would you love, like, my guilty pleasure is something like I don't even know what my godly pleasure is exactly. See, what is a good pleasure? I don't care what anyone think. Yeah. I don't feel guilty ever.

[Louis Spence]

I don't. I don't. There's nothing I feel guilty about. If I like it, I like it. It's like it's nothing. Guilty.

[Jamie Laing]

I love rom coms. Love a romcom.

[Louis Spence]

Oh, God.

[Jamie Laing]

Nothing. Maybe it's nothing. Nothing's guilty. That's fine. What turns you off?

[Louis Spence]

Bad breath. Well, a fucking ptosis.

[Jamie Laing]

What turns you on?

[Louis Spence]

Cleanliness next to godliness, darling. And he loves us, doesn't he? The gays. We're all welcome up there.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you like most about yourself?

[Louis Spence]

What I like most about myself, I suppose I says I'm generous. I suppose, you know, that's. But that's my way of showing love. I try and be generous. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And last one, what's your favorite dance move?

[Louis Spence]

Slut drop.

[Jamie Laing]

Louis, thank you so much.

[Louis Spence]

Pleasure.

[Jamie Laing]

You made me backwards. Okay. What did you think?

[Louis Spence]

Wow. Wow. Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

Very deep episode.

[Jemima]

Very deep. And absolutely not what I was expecting.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. And I just. How Louis. Louis started going all over the place in lots of different directions, on tangents, and trying to bring him back to what I really wanted to discuss was kind of quite complicated. And because he's done TV for so long, it sometimes feels like he feels like he needs to entertain and make stories. And then what was interesting afterwards is he said, God, I think I'm a bit boring. I don't think that's interesting.

[Jemima]

Could you relate? Is that. Did that like, ring a bell for you? Because you've spoken about that.

[Jamie Laing]

I used to have that.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

I used to have that because I. When you. When your whole life is about entertainment, sometimes that can happen. I think Louis spends his whole life being this person. So when he's not being that person, he thinks he's boring. But actually the real Louis Spence is far as far more entertaining, far more interesting, far more amazing than he could possibly ever know.

[Louis Spence]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

So on that note, we really hope you enjoy the episode. If you yourself are struggling or know someone who's struggling. We're going to leave some links in our show description to places where you can go for support and help. Please subscribe to the show if you haven't already. Follow us on social media, Great company podcast and send us an email. We want to know what you think about the show, what guests you want us to have on Next great [e-mail] and of course we're on YouTube as well. Well, and we'll see you next week for another episode of Great Company.

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[Louis Spence]

Fell in love with them, we took them off the menu.

[Adam Grant]

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to us either. The Colonel lived so we could chicken. Backed by obsessive demand, the bold flavor of KFC's spicy wings and fluffy potato wedges.

[Louis Spence]

Come and get them.

[Adam Grant]

Prices and participation may vary. Only available while supplies last.

[Jamie Laing]

Hello everyone. We're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from Newlyweds and then Newlyweds.

[Louis Spence]

But now, guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet. Becoming parents. Yeah, that's right.

[Jamie Laing]

Newlyweds is now Nearly Parents, and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood. I guess.

[Louis Spence]

Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying to not to kill each other.

[Jamie Laing]

Get ready for Nearly Parents, your favorite new podcast.