PART 2 RIORDAN MAYNARD - REBUILDING LIFE AFTER PRISON & LOSING EVERYTHING

Summary

Great Company with Jamie Laing

Episode: PART 2 RIORDAN MAYNARD - REBUILDING LIFE AFTER PRISON & LOSING EVERYTHING
Release Date: July 8, 2025

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Introduction

In the second part of the compelling conversation between Jamie Laing and Reardon Maynard, hosted by JamPot Productions, they delve deeper into Reardon's harrowing yet transformative journey of rebuilding his life after prison. This episode expands on themes introduced in the first part, offering listeners an intimate look into the challenges and triumphs of reintegration, mental resilience, and the profound impact on family dynamics.

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1. Discovering Life Inside Prison

Exploring the Environment

Reardon opens up about his initial months in prison, describing the stark monotony and the search for meaning within the confines of incarceration.

Reardon Maynard [05:28]: "I stumbled across this room which is like heaven. It's a music room with a piano, drums, guitars. I thought, why hasn't anyone told me about this?"

His discovery of the music room becomes a pivotal moment, providing an unexpected sanctuary amidst the bleakness of prison life.

Social Structures and Gangs

Reardon discusses the complex social hierarchies within the prison, particularly the role of gangs in establishing order and protection.

Reardon Maynard [07:29]: "The Italians were the absolute joy. They are incredibly good fun... they have a great time. They're basically that, you know, it's a family sort of thing."

He highlights how these groups, though forming protective alliances, also perpetuate a culture of fear and exclusion for those who don't conform.

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2. Building Relationships in Prison

Friendships and Alliances

Despite the harsh environment, Reardon acknowledges the presence of genuine friendships and supportive relationships.

Reardon Maynard [07:03]: "There are some lovely people in prison. Really... It's basically like normal life. You get lovely people and then you get awful people and people in the middle."

Navigating Trust and Loyalty

He elaborates on the necessity of trust within prison gangs, where proving one's loyalty is a matter of survival.

Reardon Maynard [09:01]: "You have to show them your transcript. And the transcript says, you know, he cooperated or this is the crimes that he's committed. As long as you're not one of them, you don't talk about why people are in. It's your business."

This guarded environment makes forming sincere connections challenging, as betrayal often leads to severe repercussions.

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3. Temptations and Offers to Return to Crime

Post-Prison Opportunities

Upon release, Reardon found himself inundated with offers to re-enter the criminal world, leveraging his business acumen for illicit gains.

Reardon Maynard [20:23]: "I was offered to become the European cocaine king... I met some serious cocaine people from Canada, Colombia, and Mexico."

Refusing the Return

Despite the lucrative temptations, Reardon remains steadfast in his commitment to a law-abiding life.

Reardon Maynard [21:30]: "I just don't want to go back in. I'm not doing that."

His ability to resist these offers underscores his personal growth and determination to change his path.

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4. Transitioning Back to Life Outside Prison

Starting from Zero

Reardon describes the challenges of reintegrating into society, emphasizing the lack of opportunities for former inmates.

Reardon Maynard [22:31]: "I'm starting from zero in terms of my own situation... But I've got my family."

Support Systems

He credits a friend for providing crucial support upon his release, helping him regain confidence and re-establish his place in the business world.

Reardon Maynard [22:31]: "One of my friends, the day I got out, said, come and help me with my businesses. That's been a remarkable gift."

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5. Mental Resilience and Mindset Shift

From Despair to Purpose

Reardon's transformation began with a critical choice between self-harm and self-improvement, leading him to redefine his future goals.

Reardon Maynard [43:54]: "It's a binary situation of am I gonna top myself or am I gonna get my shit together?"

Defining a Compelling Future

He emphasizes the importance of having a clear vision or "North Star" to guide one's actions and maintain focus amidst life's uncertainties.

Reardon Maynard [47:46]: "I want to be an amazing father and an amazing husband... If you have a view of where you're trying to get to and a view of what you need to get there, you feel in control."

Adopting Positive Behaviors

Reardon advocates for aligning daily actions with long-term goals, fostering behaviors that support personal growth and fulfillment.

Reardon Maynard [56:40]: "You've got to learn to love the life you live... defining what it is and creating the behaviors and the way of thinking about it that allows you to achieve what you want to achieve and love it."

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6. Impact on Family and Relationships

Strained Connections

Reardon discusses the profound strain his incarceration placed on his family relationships, particularly due to limited communication and physical separation.

Reardon Maynard [59:00]: "There's no contact at all... It's horrific on the family."

Rebuilding Trust and Love

Since his release, he has worked diligently to rebuild his relationships, expressing deep love and admiration for his wife and children.

Reardon Maynard [64:47]: "I would like to say how much I love them because I'm not very good at saying that."

His efforts reflect a sincere commitment to being present and supportive, essential for healing and strengthening familial bonds.

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7. Personal Growth and Future Aspirations

Continuous Improvement

Reardon acknowledges his ongoing journey towards personal betterment, striving to overcome inherent judgmental tendencies and focusing on being a better father and husband.

Reardon Maynard [49:54]: "I'm on the right path because I know... I want to be my version of an amazing father."

Authoring and Sharing Experiences

He mentions his endeavor to write books about his experiences and the mindful programs he's developing, aiming to help others navigate similar challenges.

Reardon Maynard [35:36]: "I've written three books... I'm absolutely passionate about Mindful Ca."

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8. Insights and Recommendations

Embracing Gratitude

Reardon highlights the transformative power of gratitude, a principle he honed during his imprisonment to maintain a positive outlook.

Reardon Maynard [28:51]: "One of the biggest benefits of prison is appreciation. Recognizing the good bits makes you feel better."

The Importance of a Support System

He underscores the necessity of having a strong support network, both inside and outside of prison, to facilitate successful reintegration and personal growth.

Reardon Maynard [25:10]: "I have lovely people who have supported me... I'm doing lots of work now with individuals on the Mindfort thing and with companies as well."

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Conclusion

Reardon Maynard's story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the profound impact of personal determination and supportive relationships in overcoming adversity. By sharing his experiences, he provides valuable insights into the challenges of life after prison and the essential components of rebuilding a meaningful and fulfilling life.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Reardon Maynard [05:28]: "I stumbled across this room which is like heaven. It's a music room with a piano, drums, guitars."

• Reardon Maynard [07:29]: "The Italians were the absolute joy. They are incredibly good fun... they're basically that, you know, it's a family sort of thing."

• Reardon Maynard [20:23]: "I was offered to become the European cocaine king... I met some serious cocaine people from Canada, Colombia, and Mexico."

• Reardon Maynard [43:54]: "It's a binary situation of am I gonna top myself or am I gonna get my shit together?"

• Reardon Maynard [47:46]: "I want to be an amazing father and an amazing husband... If you have a view of where you're trying to get to and a view of what you need to get there, you feel in control."

• Reardon Maynard [28:51]: "One of the biggest benefits of prison is appreciation. Recognizing the good bits makes you feel better."

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a powerful narrative on redemption and the human capacity to change. Reardon Maynard's willingness to confront his past and actively work towards a brighter future offers hope and guidance to those facing similar struggles. Jamie Laing’s empathetic interviewing style ensures that Reardon's story resonates deeply, providing listeners with both inspiration and practical insights.

Transcript

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[Reardon Maynard]

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[Jamie Laing]

Hello everyone. My name is Jamie Laing and this is Great company. This is a very exciting day.

[Jemima]

Hello.

[Jamie Laing]

Hello Jemima.

[Jemima]

I thought you were gonna start.

[Jamie Laing]

Alright, how you doing? No, this is a very exciting day. Very exciting because it's a first. It's a first. So firstly, well, this isn't a first.

[Reardon Maynard]

This is a second.

[Jamie Laing]

But firstly, I want to say hello to all of you wonderful listeners. Welcome back to Great Company. If you're new to the show, I'm your host Jamie and this is producer Jemima. Correct. We had recently on one of our podcasts we had a man called Riordan.

[Jemima]

Maynard, yes, Spelt Riordan.

[Jamie Laing]

Spelt Riordan, but his name is Reardon. Now, lots of you didn't know who Reardon was and for us I didn't really know who Reardon was. Reardon and I met through a mutual friend. He said that he wanted to come on my podcast or our podcast. And I said, okay, well what's the story? And my friend said, well, he's just got out of prison. He spent six and a half years in prison. And I said, what for? And he said, well, let him tell you that. So I got on a zoom with this guy called Ridge and I never met, and he was beyond charming and beyond charismatic and his story was fascinating. And so I said, great, let's do it. So we did an episode with Riada Maynard. If you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to it. We're going to leave the link to the first episode in the description. And it was amazing about Reardon, who went to prison for tax evasion in the States in America, running his business. And what he went through was just truly unique.

[Jemima]

It was one of those episodes where we had to say, normally a lot of the guest people know, but it was one of those ones where we were like, trust us, you're going to enjoy. And the response was absolutely wild.

[Jamie Laing]

It was amazing. We spoke about prison, we spoke about family, so many things. And actually, because we spent so long talking, we didn't really have time to complete everything. So we decided to do a part two, which is happening today.

[Jemima]

It is happening today.

[Jamie Laing]

So trust us once again, this is going to be an incredible episode.

[Jemima]

And we heard you and we heard everyone wanted a part two.

[Jamie Laing]

So here's your part two.

[Jemima]

So we're asking. As we went through the inbox and we found a load of questions that people really wanted to know. What did you want to know? I wanted to know just more about the ins and outs of the fact he was in a gang. That absolutely fascinated me.

[Jamie Laing]

I want to know about that. I want to know about family. I want to know about. Mental resilience was a big thing. And so today's episode is all of that. All the things that weren't answered enough. Episode one are in episode two today. So get ready for this one now. If you haven't subscribed to our show, I cannot tell you how much it does for us. It does us absolute wonders. So if you can subscribe, that'd be amazing. If you'd like to get in touch, please do let us know what guest you want next. Anything at all. Get in touch with us on Instagram @GreatCompany podcast or you can send us an email. GreatCompanyamproproductions.co.uk Are you ready for this?

[Jemima]

Oh, we're all ready. We're chomping at the bit for part two of Reardon.

[Jamie Laing]

Please enjoy this episode of Great Company with Reardon Maynard. Again.

[Reardon Maynard]

Hi, I'm Reardon Maynard and I'm back in my third prison. I'd been there like two or three months. And there's nothing to do in prison, basically. You can read, think, eat, exercise. That's about it. And sleep and so it's bloody boring. Anyway, I'm in this prison, like for six, eight weeks, and people, you know, people in my group, my gang, are helping me out, telling me what's going on, and I stumble across this room which is like heaven. It's a music room.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you mean you stumble across this room?

[Reardon Maynard]

I'm walking around the yard and there's this door and I open the door and there's this glorious music room with a piano, drums, guitars. I think, why the hell hasn't anyone told me about this music room? I mean, maybe they don't know that I like music, but you would think that someone would say, oh, we've got a gym. And by the way, we've got this fucking amazing music room. You know, this is like you're living in. In a place which is. So it's barren, it's. There's nothing. And then there's this glorious music room. So I. I go in the music room, fiddle about on the piano and stuff. Think nothing of it. And I went back to the unit and I said, I found a music room. Why hasn't anyone told me about the music room? And they all looked at each other and they said, you don't want to go in the music room. I said, why don't I want to go in the music room? They said, we call it the Bang Bang Room. Basically, everyone goes there to shag and so it's basically the equivalent of going to a dogging site in the UK and, you know, you're basically asking for it.

[Jamie Laing]

And you went in there and played the piano.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, I'm in there merrily playing the piano and everyone's in there and looking very keen. I thought they liked my piano.

[Jamie Laing]

Did you ever form any close relationships when you were in prison?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yes. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's some lovely people in prison. Really? Yeah. I mean, I think I said this last time. It's basically like normal life. You get lovely people and then you get awful people and people in the middle. Um. But yeah, I definitely. I really.

[Jamie Laing]

Who did you like the most? What. What sort of groups of people did you like the most? Were there anyone?

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh, there's no question. The Italians were the absolute joy. They were.

[Jamie Laing]

Are they the Mafia, would you say, or.

[Reardon Maynard]

No, they would never say that. And I would definitely never say that. I don't know, Frank, Truthfully, I don't know. Because you don't really ask people questions about their day jobs when you're in prison, do you not? Never.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you ask them what they're in for?

[Reardon Maynard]

You're not meant to. The only thing you're. The only thing they ask you about is. And this is every prison you go when you get there, that you have to prove that you're not a pedophile or a snitch.

[Jamie Laing]

How do you prove that?

[Reardon Maynard]

You have to get your papers from your lawyers on your sentencing, the transcript of your sentencing hearing. Because in your sentencing hearing, the judge will always say whether you cooperated with the government or if you stiff someone in. You know, if you. For instance. I was always. They were always trying to get me to blame my CFO for my situation. My lawyers were always saying, you know, stiff them and you'll get a better sentence. Wow. Yeah, that's what they do. You know, that's their thing. Yeah, you always. They always want you to blame someone else rather than take the blame. I mean, I made the decisions. It's my fault. So. And also, how can you. How can you learn and develop if you don't take responsibility?

[Jamie Laing]

True, but it's very easy in that situation when your back is against the tempted. You're very tempted. I can imagine.

[Reardon Maynard]

So they, so they do. They do push you quite hard to snitch and blame others. And anyway, so when you get to the prison, that's what they're interested in. And so you have to show them your transcript. And the transcript says, you know, he cooperated or this is the crimes that, that he's committed. And, and then as long as you. You're not one of them, you. You basically don't talk about why people are in. It's your business. And, and no one really judges you based on it either.

[Jamie Laing]

Who are you showing your papers to? To everyone?

[Reardon Maynard]

No, to your gang. The leader of your group. Yeah. They're vetting you basically, because they, they're letting you into your. Their group. It's like saying, give me your cv. I'm going to, you know, I want to see where you've been and what you've done. And so some people. L. When they get there, they lie. I mean, this is coming, the transcript's coming. So you're better off just getting it out at the front end if you're. If you're one of them. But some don't. They. They make out that they're not. And then the, their transcripts don't turn up anyway, they get seriously beaten if they, you know, because they're part of the group. And then if it's trans, if they transpire to be a snitch, then they get a serious beating.

[Jamie Laing]

Is. Is that the. Is that the sort of repercussions is always beaten.

[Reardon Maynard]

They also have a. You can be cast out in. They have a. I can't remember what they call it. A lot of the organization you can see at the, in the dining hall because everyone sits together, there's, you know, groups. You, you have the whites and then you have different race groups and you, you're not allowed to sit outside of your group. And I think there is a group that is not a group which is basically a bunch of cast offs who have upset someone or done something wrong or haven't conformed or something. There's something that they've done that means that they've been, you know, they've been sent into the wilderness and then they get no protection either. You know, so they're like.

[Jamie Laing]

So they're like a sitting duck.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, basically. Yeah. Is like. So that is freaking fascinating. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Just how do you become the leader of a group? We, I think we said.

[Reardon Maynard]

I actually don't know how that happens. I didn't see any of that. But there's obviously like any, any natural hierarchy.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, there's a, there's a system, right?

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh yeah. Oh, yes, very. Yeah. The structure I think it's based on. It will be. It is based on strength, respect, fear, those normal sorts of things for a natural hierarchy to occur.

[Jamie Laing]

Why did you like the Italians so much?

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, they are incredibly good fun. I mean, they have a great time. They're basically. I mean, I think, and this is just my conjecture, I was. Because basically I'm in, I'm in the whites. And a subsection of the whites are the Italians.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay.

[Reardon Maynard]

Because they are their own group, but because obviously there's not that many of them, although they do have a lot of power in the prisons. They've. They sort of ally with the whites. So they're a bigger.

[Jamie Laing]

So they're a big group.

[Reardon Maynard]

You're a bigger group. You're a group in the, in the scheme of things. And, and so they're slightly separate. They have their own table and stuff at the dining hall. And I always saw them, you know, when I come down for breaks, they're always having a great time. They're like a family. And I know, you know, you see all the. They are basically that, you know, it's a family sort of Thing, isn't it? Yeah, and. But it's just like you see in the films. I mean, they are just like. If you see them mucking about in Goodfellas, I mean, I hope they don't come and hunt me down. Now, if you're listening. Actually, I know they're listening because they wrote to me. I forgot to tell you, they wrote to me after the last podcast. Yeah, I'm glad I remembered that. Are you serious? One of the things I got from email on email was the heading. The title was Oi, you fucking wanker. What's up? Cause they love the word wanker in America. I mean, it must be because of Guy Ritchie, because, you know, in all his movies, Jason Statham is always wanker. Yeah. And anyway, so they loved that. So it said, oi, you fucking wanker. What's up? And then there's this lovely email from one of the guys heard the podcast. Why haven't you mentioned us? We took you in like a small boy. We looked after you. Yeah. So anyway, now I am wherever you are. This is your mention. Leave me alone. No, so I totally forgot. I don't. But anyway, they, they are, I will say they are wonderful people. I don't know what they do in the day and I can't judge anything about that. But as people in that environment, they were spectacular to me. You know, they took me in totally. I mean, I'm sitting with them every day. They, they taught me how to lift weights. You know, I'd never done weights before I went to prison and, you know, they showed me, you know, I was part of their weights group.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you make friends with people or is it complicated to make friends with people because of the environment that you're in?

[Reardon Maynard]

Some people do make very good friends. I, I wasn't keen to make friends really.

[Jamie Laing]

So you kept yourself.

[Reardon Maynard]

To be honest, as a human, I'm not very good at friends. I mean, I'm not quite.

[Jamie Laing]

I would disagree.

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh, thanks very much.

[Jamie Laing]

I think you're good at being friends.

[Reardon Maynard]

That must be my. The new version of me, the previous version. That's probably the wrong way to say what I'm trying to say, which is that I wasn't, I was like you. I didn't pay enough attention to friends, to friendship and relationships. I was too busy, too self important, you know, didn't need it. But from a prison perspective, it's a difficult balance because I met lovely people in there who were very supportive of me and helped me a lot. But also, I don't really want that to be my life.

[Jamie Laing]

I totally get it.

[Reardon Maynard]

It isn't my life.

[Jamie Laing]

No.

[Reardon Maynard]

I mean it's a moment in my life which has happened and I got huge benefit from it and lots of challenges from it. But I don't want to be defined by it.

[Jamie Laing]

No. And I don't think you are.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. And that's good because I, I love talk. I don't have any issue talking about it at all. And I find it amusing as well. I mean it's almost like I didn't do it. It's like someone else is doing it. But, but I don't want that to be my, my thing necessarily.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Reardon Maynard]

I don't know, you know, I, I.

[Jamie Laing]

Completely, I completely hear what you're saying, but it must be quite tricky, you know, and I want to talk about other things. Well, but I'm just going to focus on this for a second. It must be quite tricky as well. Right. Because I don't know, talking about what happened inside must be quite hard because there are people involved so you can't really say things and all that. Those kind of things. But also I remember we had a conversation and you said that coming. I, I would have. Individuals have no idea how much of like goes on in the underworld, how much business.

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh.

[Jamie Laing]

Is happening in the world of crime.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And you said it's probably the same amount as what's happening above board.

[Reardon Maynard]

I think it might be. I mean, I don't. That's a completely uneducated statement. Someone would know what the, what the crime, criminal world equates to in the context of the normal economy. But the money is just eye watering.

[Jamie Laing]

When you're in prison because basically it's, you know, when you go to school or university or you're, you're making connections. Was there any other points? I don't know how much you can say. Was there any other points that you were offered deals or business things or any opportunities that people said, oh, we can make this happen or that happen or make this, do this all the time. Really?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. I mean, firstly people would ask me for my advice because obviously I've come from a business background.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Reardon Maynard]

So there was lots of people who wanted, who genuinely wanted advice about, you know, because one of the great challenges for convicts is getting a job not whether they're capable or not or whether they want to, you know, change and become law abiding, but the actual process of getting a job is virtually impossible because you have a criminal record and in, especially in America they do everything possible to really you for life. I Mean properly, in what ways? Well, you have a criminal record. What they put on the Internet is bordering on slander. The way that they publicize their court wins. And then the general, I suppose, PR that surrounds people who've been in prison means that it's virtually impossible to get a job. So everyone wants to start their own business. If you're in prisoner, I mean, everyone wants to start.

[Jamie Laing]

Literally everyone.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. Because they know when they leave they've got two options. Start your own business or go back to what you were doing that got you in there.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow.

[Reardon Maynard]

So that a lot of people ask for advice. I was obviously very happy to help wherever I could with people with their planning and what they wanted to try and achieve. And. And I did a lot of this, mind, fought stuff in prison with. With prisoners, you know, and that was very, very. It proved to be very successful. And so. And so that's. That's on the other side. You get all sorts of offers. I mean, I was offered to become the European cocaine king, which, on the face of it, sounds quite interesting, but I just don't want to go back in. I've got nothing against cocaine, but I just don't want to go back in. I'm not going back. So that, I mean, I must have met. I reckon I met. I don't know what the cocaine business is worth, but I met some serious cocaine people for Canada and from Colombia and Mexico.

[Jamie Laing]

Are you serious?

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And so I offered that. And then.

[Jamie Laing]

What do they expect? You don't have to say who it is, but what do they offer? What do they say.

[Reardon Maynard]

They want roots into the market, basically. I guess. I mean, it's like any. I mean, what's interesting about crime is it's like any business. Yeah. You know, these people, I said to a lot of them, why don't you just switch off the criminal element, apply your skills. Because they're bloody good business people, you know, they're seriously impressive. They got, you know, they understand distribution, pricing, competition. You know, they know how to deal with competition big time. They've got marketing there. I mean, they are the sales. They get procurement, they get all the bits.

[Jamie Laing]

They get recruiting, they go recruiting.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. And so I often said to them in all seriousness, not that criminal element on the. On the head, apply everything, you know, to this bit and you'll be off. But, yeah, so they, they offer me the ability to buy their product, basically, and distribute it, which I, you know, just for the record, I'm not doing.

[Jamie Laing]

You're not doing that?

[Reardon Maynard]

Not interested. I Am. I've learned my lesson. So from that perspective, the justice system does work. I'm definitely not going back. But, um. And then there's just tons of money. You know, one person offered me a hundred million dollars to invest in businesses. Yeah. Because they just have so much cash. I mean, so much cash. They don't. I mean they've got to, then they've got to clean the. I mean, I don't know. This is me, this is me speculating. I don't know what, how, how it all works. I didn't ask any questions about their world. That wasn't, that's, it's not my world. But, but yeah, they have a. They. I got tons of offers.

[Jamie Laing]

One of our listeners, we had so many messages. Anna has written in to ask, she said, what has it been like returning to non prison life and the uk? Did you have to start from zero?

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, it's been spectacular, amazing just being out of prison. Obviously I am starting from zero in in terms of my own situation. Well, that's not quite fair because obviously I've got my family. But where I've been incredibly fortunate is one of my friends, the day I got out said, come and help me with my businesses. And that's been just a remarkable gift because the process of arrest, trial, well, the process of business failure to start with, without all the criminal stuff is quite gutting for someone like me because, you know, I've got an ego, I've got fear of failure, I've got all this, all the stuff you, everyone. Yeah, the checklist for everyone who started a business. And so failing is horrible. If you fail very publicly, very obviously, then it's, it's pretty crushing and so, so that in its own right affects your confidence. You start to think you're pretty and, and then you add on to it the arrest which is slightly traumatic. Then you add onto it the trial which is like I told you this last time is like a sort of tsunami of hate against you. I mean it's like that's the worst bit. And then you add on the prison. Anyway, so my confidence completely wiped out. So my friend giving me this opportunity to help him, that's really good for my self confidence. So he. I'm answering the question about whether I started from zero. I did in theory, but I'm a very lucky guy. I've got lovely people who have supported me. I mean amazing. Whilst I was away, so many people supported me. You know, just, just making an effort. It's not easy writing to people in prison. Firstly, you have to get paper. No one's liking that anymore. And a pen and a stamp and they don't make it easy for you to get it to me. And lots of people have made an effort, but specifically being back now, I have lots of opportunities and I'm very busy and I'm doing lots of work now with individuals on the mindfort thing and with companies as well.

[Jamie Laing]

Did any. Any of your friends cut you off completely?

[Reardon Maynard]

No, I don't think anyone has.

[Jamie Laing]

Shows kind of what a person you.

[Reardon Maynard]

Are, then I would say I. I really hope so. I mean, I think everyone is. Everyone is of the opinion that I'm an idiot, including myself. They are also of the opinion that the judge is completely mental for the sentence is lunacy. And I think most people just. They're not accepting of what happened so much as they think, okay, that's a bit of a hard hit you've taken and you've dealt with it well, and now you've got to get on. And I think that's how it should be. You know, really, you should have a second chance if you've fucked up.

[Jamie Laing]

You believe in second chances?

[Reardon Maynard]

I think you have to, don't you? I always have. I mean, in touch base, we used to employ people who'd fucked up.

[Jamie Laing]

This is your business.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. And we employed one chap who'd been to prison. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I've. Cause I do think you've got to. Otherwise, how does it work? How does this sort of principle of forgiveness and, you know, when you sort. What. How can you learn? Because I don't think you can actually progress without the failure.

[Jamie Laing]

I don't think you can either.

[Reardon Maynard]

I think you've got to experience it and then move on from it, which is why I think it's been very good for me.

[Jamie Laing]

Another listener, Greenie, says, ask about your emotions that you've experienced outside of prison. Did transitioning back to life outside also bring anxiety? Because I imagine there must be some PTSD with it.

[Reardon Maynard]

Right. Yeah, I think there is.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you mean, you think?

[Reardon Maynard]

I've got this weird thing where it's almost as if it didn't happen, and I wonder if that's how you cope with it.

[Jamie Laing]

Really?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, I mean, I definitely get ptsd, no question. When I hear a bell, that's like movement. No, seriously, that's true. Better get moving. We've only got 10 minutes. I told you last time, I'm much more emotional. I mean, I'll be walking along. I was walking along Bond street and suddenly I start thinking About Tara and the children, I start welling up. I mean, it's so alien to me because I'm so excited about them coming.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you. What is it you think about them when that makes you well up?

[Reardon Maynard]

Being together, you know, as a family. And to your earlier point, that must be based on the fact that you. I now know what it's like not to be because we were always together before and I never took it, I never appreciated it. But then when you can't have it, you appreciate it.

[Jamie Laing]

So in some ways it's some sort of gift to know what it's not like to have.

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh, that's one of the biggest benefits of prison, is appreciation. In fact, one of the things I think people, we should do as an absolute discipline daily is work out what's brilliant about our life and recognize it either. You know, people talk about gratitude.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Reardon Maynard]

I do think that is a. That's quite magical. Gratitude.

[Jamie Laing]

I do it all the time. Every morning, every night.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. Because we spend a lot of our life worrying about what about it. And of course, you need. You do need to recognize the bits you want to change and things that are not quite going where you want them to go, which is. Which is why you need this to define where you're going and how you're going to get there. But also there's almost always good bits that we can zero in on and enjoy. And just that very act of recognizing them and appreciating them makes you feel better.

[Jamie Laing]

You were in prison for six and a half years.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What changed from the moment that you went in to when you came out? Ah, there's an amazing moment. And I go back to Shawshank Redemption, which I love. I watched the other day.

[Reardon Maynard]

Although talking of ptsd, I'm struggling to watch any prison related content currently, but.

[Jamie Laing]

In Shawshank, Spoiler alert if you haven't seen it. But there's a moment when one of the old prisoners gets released. He's been there for most of his life and he says where he. You know, when I came out, when I was a boy, when I. Before I went in, I saw one motor car. Now I came out and they're everywhere.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And you kind of forget that, that you go into a place where the world is this and then when you come out, the world is different.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

So what was different?

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, I think mine wasn't as accentuated as that. There are people in there who are there for 30 odd years. You can't imagine. Well, they're just. They can't even get back to life, I don't think. But in my case, the biggest thing I noticed and bear in mind I was in the mobile business, in the communications business. So I'm into phones and I'm into technology and stuff. But the biggest thing I noticed was how the human race has basically been taken over by the screen. That was the biggest change because obviously before I went in, I wasn't in 20 years. I mean, we had iPhones and we had iPads and people were using their phones, but nothing like when I got released from my last prison before they then put me in another one, which I wasn't expecting. I was allowed to travel from Pennsylvania to Denver on the train on my own. And so they, they literally let me go.

[Jamie Laing]

How weird.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, bizarre to move across country. It's called self surrender or something. And so for just 20 hours I was free, completely free. It was amazing. But the thing I was.

[Jamie Laing]

That amazing.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, that was amazing. It was odd. But the thing I noticed the most was people on their phones and adults, not children, but like with this, this motion just scrolling to the hours, sitting on the train like that. And, and I mean it's no, I mean there's no news to anyone because we all know it's, it's happened. But that was a big one. And then the other thing was the cost of everything because I started business. Well, I started working in about 87, started my own business in about 92 or touch base in 92. We had that little mobile phone place before that. And in 92 there was a big recession, proper recession. But since then we haven't really had inflation, we've had crashes, financial crashes, but not inflation. And that was one of the biggest things I noticed was the cost of everything. I went to get a Starbucks and you know, I love coffee and one of the things I dreamed about in prison was having a coffee because they have the worst coffee you can possibly imagine. And I love coffee. And so I was. I dreamt for five odd years about having a coffee. So I went to Starbucks and when you leave for your trip, they give you $20 to fund, you know, bits and bobs. And so I went to Starbucks, ordered my regular, which is strong.

[Jamie Laing]

Was that a weird moment?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, oh yeah. The whole thing was freakish. And I looked like a tramp. I mean, I looked proper hobo because I'm wearing like these. When you leave prison, they give you these jeans, but they're not jeans, they're like, they're like tracksuit bottoms that look like jeans. Anyway, you look awful. You got this terrible T shirt on. I look like a. I had a string bag with all my possessions in and. Oh, and my hair is just down to like a.1 razor cut, like a skinhead. And so. But anyway, I. I ordered the coffee. It was $10 for the coffee. $10.

[Jamie Laing]

Half your money.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. And then consequently, I noticed how expensive everything had become. And then the other thing on the flip side of that I've noticed is how much money there is around. Now, I know that's a silly thing to say because there's a lot of poverty, but at the top end, so much. Yeah. And I was brought up in the 80s. My. My working life started in the 80s with, you know, greed is good, Gordon Gekko, Wall street, you know, and that was my. I loved it. You know, I loved that. That's why I got into business. And. And at that time, they said it was the time of excess, but this is nothing like this. I mean, this is extraordinary.

[Jamie Laing]

We've had an email from a prison officer from Felton Prison. They said, has Reardon written a book about his experience? I'd love to share it with the prisoners I work with. Have you written a book? If not, would you?

[Reardon Maynard]

I have basically written a book, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

But it's not been published.

[Reardon Maynard]

No, it's in my handwriting. I wrote it while I was in prison. I've wrote three books. One which was based around this program, this mindful program. Second one is called. It's a bit of a popular title currently, but 50 rules. But it's basically 50 rules that I want to live by, which ties in with all the beliefs stuff. And then the third one is like a business system to.

[Jamie Laing]

You should get these published. I mean, it's amazing that an officer.

[Reardon Maynard]

Is a bit cliche.

[Jamie Laing]

It's not cliche.

[Reardon Maynard]

I don't think man goes to prison, man writes book.

[Jamie Laing]

I don't think it is. Especially if it's helping.

[Reardon Maynard]

I might do. I'd really. I mean, my big thing. I'm going to plug myself now.

[Jamie Laing]

Do it.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. Is this Mindful?

[Jamie Laing]

Which I've been doing it as an incredible.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, I'm absolutely passionate about it. Mindful ca.

[Jamie Laing]

I'm going to put the link in the show description so people can click it. I think it's amazing.

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[Jamie Laing]

Describe to me quickly what a normal day in prison is like because I want to understand your mindset now.

[Reardon Maynard]

Well you get up, I'll talk for myself. It's pretty similar for everyone but I I would wake up at 4:30 and do some sort of yoga ish type movements, mobility stuff and then they call you for breakfast at about 5 and it's like anytime food is involved I always felt like I was at a farm because it is just like watching animals because and I'm one of them. I mean I'm not calling everyone else. Everyone's the we are basically animals because the gates closed, you know the doors closed to the unit until they open it and let you go to eat. And that's everyone's lining up pushing to get the food's going to be there, it's not going anywhere anyway. So they open you go and have.

[Jamie Laing]

Your just People run.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, people are running. They're trying to get which sort of makes sense because then you don't have to line up but they are running down the corridor trying to get to the food. And it's not very good food, let me tell you. Really bad. The food. Actually, it was quite good. In one prison, one was inedible.

[Jamie Laing]

Not inedible.

[Reardon Maynard]

No, listen to me. 1. We went. We had to go on hunger strike three times because one of the guys in the kitchen found the meat packaging and it said not for human consumption on it. And I'm not lying. That is true. Not for. This is a private prison for profit. Not for human consumption. Anyway, that was. I was in that prison. It's mental, isn't it? I'm in that prison. Can't eat the food. The food is absolutely offensive. I ate packets of fish. This. I'm not lying. Packets of fish, peanuts and Milky Ways. For nearly two years, that's all I ate. I was like Christian Bale in the Machinist. I don't. You know.

[Jamie Laing]

So you have your food and then what happens after that?

[Reardon Maynard]

I. I would always go to. To exercise after that.

[Jamie Laing]

And you have how long to exercise?

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, the way that the day is structured usually is you have these things called movements. So every hour you can move for 10 minutes. Does that make sense? So they. You get the bell and then you can move anywhere you like, but only for 10 minutes. And then you're in the place you're in. So let's say you go to the gym. You have to stay there until the next movement. What?

[Jamie Laing]

It's like some sort of game?

[Reardon Maynard]

I've never thought of it like that, but yeah, it is.

[Jamie Laing]

It's like, see? And then you're in that position. For how long? In that place? For how long?

[Reardon Maynard]

Up until the next movement, which is an hour, basically.

[Jamie Laing]

So you have 10 minutes to get to the place that you want to.

[Reardon Maynard]

That's it.

[Jamie Laing]

So if you're in the bathrooms, you're stuck in the bathrooms? No.

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, you have the bathrooms in the units.

[Jamie Laing]

In the units.

[Reardon Maynard]

And then. So you have these movements and then they count you all the time. So then every about six times a day, you have to go back to your unit at a specific time and then they count you. You have to stand by your bunk.

[Jamie Laing]

In case anyone's escaped.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, they're paranoid about people, but no one escapes. I don't. Well, you do see the odd one, don't you, on the news? Yeah, it's quite unusual. I mean, certainly I didn't see any evidence of people even trying to escape. Although I. I would say it probably happens more with people who've got much longer sentences. Because if you've got a short sentence.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, you don't do it.

[Reardon Maynard]

You wouldn't do it because you get automatically 10 years.

[Jamie Laing]

And so then you. You're stuck in that place. Then you wait for the next bell, then it's lunch. And so it's. And it's. And then anything else happens in the day, you don't. Nothing else.

[Reardon Maynard]

Nothing else.

[Jamie Laing]

The boredom.

[Reardon Maynard]

It's so boring.

[Jamie Laing]

The repetition.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, that is. That's what it is. It's a repeating. It's the same day every day.

[Jamie Laing]

Because that brings me on to, you know, the last time we spoke, you told me how hard the first few months were.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

You said you were depressed, you didn't know how you were gonna continue on, and it was a pretty low moment. But then you changed your mindset.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And that's pretty amazing. And having spent time with you, and for a lot of the listeners, you may not know, but Reid and I, you've been coaching me.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

The last few weeks. And lucky you, very lucky me, you haven't charged me yet. That's the only thing I'm still conscious.

[Reardon Maynard]

Of that you said, just accrue. So I'll just. I'll just send you a big bill.

[Jamie Laing]

But the reason why I did, after our conversation, and we hadn't met up before our conversation, that was sort of the first time we had met in person. And then after having our conversation, I think your mindset is pretty spectacular where you have shifted your way of thinking, and you've taught me in certain ways how to do that as well. And I realize now in my life, I've been doing that. So my question to you is, how did you shift your mindset from being that depressed, anxious self imprisoned with no hope to then thinking, right, I need to change this.

[Reardon Maynard]

That. The decision to change it basically came from a binary. It's a binary situation of am I gonna top myself or am I gonna get my shit together?

[Jamie Laing]

Those were two options.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, basically.

[Jamie Laing]

So the two options were you were gonna take your own life or you were gonna change your mind.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, sort myself out. And so they often say, don't they? They often say, you've got to get to the bottom before you can get back out. Yeah. And so I think I also said last time when we spoke, it was very unusual for me to feel like that in my life. I hadn't felt like that before because I'd always had a lot of control over things and where I was going and what I was doing. And I was very optimistic and motivated. And so for the first time, I completely lost sight of Any version of a compelling future, of a reason for being. And that's really my. That was what I discovered is that having decided, right, I better get my act together because I've got five lovely children, I've got an amazing wife, I'm going to come out of here in five years or six years time. What do I want to be when I come out? And that really started to motivate me because I then started to think, well, actually this could be a gift because I've got all this time to achieve things, whatever those things are. So then I thought, okay, what do I want my life to look like? And that started me thinking about my future in a positive way, not a negative way, but started to think, okay, well actually if I take what I've done so far, work out the bits I like and work out what I want to be, then turn that into some sort of view of a future, I call it a compelling future. I must have taken that from somewhere. Nothing I say has come from me.

[Jamie Laing]

It's all just, yeah, but anything we say from anything comes from somewhere, right?

[Reardon Maynard]

A compelling future. And then I define that. I sort of know what I want to be, where I'm going. And as soon as I'd done that, things started to change. I start to. Everything I think about starts to. The thinking is in the context of that.

[Jamie Laing]

So break that down for me quickly because I think a lot of us and a lot of people listening, we don't really know what we want our lives to be like.

[Reardon Maynard]

Agreed.

[Jamie Laing]

So then how do we define our life if we don't really know what we want?

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, I think that's the basis of a lot of the trouble in modern life. We don't know and there's no certainty in us because we don't know. We're sort of just stumbling through life being told what we should like, being told what to do by all these influences that we have on us, either technical or human. There's no sort of defining version of your future. And that means you've got nothing to anchor your thinking on or your emotions or the way you process stuff or your beliefs.

[Jamie Laing]

Because we're just floating.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, because you're not. You have, you're not. You have no direction, you existing. But you don't have a north star, I call it like a north star that pulls you, that you think, okay, well one of mine is I want to be an amazing father and an amazing husband. Because I know historically, in my view, I haven't been. So that if you said, okay, what does your future look like? My future looks like me being my version of an amazing father. And I've got that all. I know what that means to me.

[Jamie Laing]

What does that mean to you?

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, being present, which is tricky because they. Because they live in America, so at this stage, not doing so well on that one.

[Jamie Laing]

But being present.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. Being obviously supportive, loving, non judgmental, which is a big problem for me.

[Jamie Laing]

Why? Because you are judgmental.

[Reardon Maynard]

I'm very judgmental, yeah, generally.

[Jamie Laing]

Are you?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

In what way?

[Reardon Maynard]

I just have very strong opinions about things. And. And they're not necessarily right.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, well, as.

[Reardon Maynard]

As most. Most, you know, with most people, they're not necessarily right, but they are strong.

[Jamie Laing]

They are.

[Reardon Maynard]

So, um. So I. I'm trying. I try. I'm really trying to, you know, like. Monty, my oldest, he's amazing and he's a very spiritual chap. And he looks like Robert Plant out of Led Zeppelin. He's very attractive. And he's got long hair. He's got this beard, you know, like Guy Fawkes. And.

[Jamie Laing]

My guy talks. I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Reardon Maynard]

And he looks amazing. But to me, I'm like, get your fucking haircut. Sort the beard out. Get a job. You know, I'm just like. And he's like. What does he say to me anyway? He's got the most wonderful sayings. He's very laid back and. Take it easy, man.

[Jamie Laing]

And you don't have to be judgmental, so you're stripping out any judgment towards.

[Reardon Maynard]

I've got to stop. Why? Well, who am I to tell him he needs his fucking haircut? I mean, he looks great. So, anyway, sorry, Monty, I don't. I mean, I don't want to sing.

[Jamie Laing]

No, but that's. But that's amazing. I get what you mean.

[Reardon Maynard]

You asked me the question about being a father. That's. Those are the types of things I'm really working on. Because let me be clear. I am not fixed. There's lots. I mean, we are all a work in progress, aren't we? But I'm on the right path because I know.

[Jamie Laing]

So you think that once you have that North Star, once you know your compelling future, then you can understand what you want to achieve in life. And then when you know where you want to get to in life, you can block every. All the other noise out?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, basically. I mean, once you've got that view of your future, I think you then need to sort of distill that down into the things you should really be focused on. I call them obsessions. Things that you should really be obsessed with. So from my. In my world, it would be my children. They should be an obsession for me, not in a negative way, because some people think the word obsession is a bit too strong. But. But that's, you know, and another area I'm absolutely passionate about is my health and fitness because I. Because I used to be. Couldn't care a toss about it, you know, because I've been very lucky. I'm. I'm quite a fit guy anyway. I don't have, you know, fortunately, I haven't had any issues and health issues, and so I've sort of taken that for granted. But what I did realize when I got to prison was if I don't make some conscious effort to sort my health out and my fitness, I'm going to come out decrepit. I mean, my kids. My youngest is 10. I'm not going to be able to run around the fields with him. I might not even better get up the stairs. I mean, you see some of these people in prison, they're. They're finished.

[Jamie Laing]

Are you serious?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. Yeah. Because all you do all day is lie on your bed. That's it. That's your day. Imagine lying on your bed all day. That's it. There's nothing else to do.

[Jamie Laing]

Nothing else.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. So you're either, as I said earlier, exercising, obviously you're not lying on your bed then, or you're thinking, reading. That's lying on the bed. You're eating. That doesn't take long. Or you're sleeping and you're on the bed. So you're in this. You're horizontal like this. All your body wears away. When I came out, I had no. All my muscles were gone. Yeah. I mean, I'd worked them quite hard in prison. But you're. You don't have that sort of natural movement that we get in our.

[Jamie Laing]

Because there's no enough. There's not.

[Reardon Maynard]

You're not moving.

[Jamie Laing]

You're not moving enough.

[Reardon Maynard]

You know, you wouldn't do. You probably don't do 500 steps a day.

[Jamie Laing]

You know, when you're feeling depressed or anxious or in that sort of dark hole, it's very hard to see the light. It's very hard to get. Especially if you've never experienced it before, which you hadn't. So I'm interested as. Like, how do you change that? How do you change the chapter? How do you force yourself to go? That is not my thinking here. I want to think this.

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, I want. Perhaps you need someone to help you get there. I don't know. In my case.

[Jamie Laing]

In your case.

[Reardon Maynard]

In my case, it just. As soon as I had defined this future, my view, vision of my future, everything changed. Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

Because you knew where you wanted to go. You knew everything that you wanted to.

[Reardon Maynard]

And I could put my current situation in the context of that. And so then I started to have some certainty. And certainty is really what we all need, even if it's fake. Because there is no such thing as certainty that is there?

[Jamie Laing]

No.

[Reardon Maynard]

Because we don't know what's going to happen this afternoon. We've got no idea. But if we have a view of where we're trying to get to and a view of what we need to get there, and we know what behaviors are required to implement that plan that's going to get you there, and we're doing the stuff necessary, we feel in control and that gives us certainty. And that makes you feel like a billion. I feel like a billion dollars all the time.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you feel great?

[Reardon Maynard]

I can't explain why. Yeah, because, I mean, my life's not brilliant. I'm penniless. I got my family in Denver and, you know, I'm sort of getting back on my feet. But I still feel remarkable every day. I mean, literally, like someone's pumped me full of cocaine every day.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you know what's interesting is that you in business, right. When you're running a business, the most important thing is to have a vision, to have a North Star, to know where you're going. And we do that. Every successful business knows what they're doing. If you look at the Googles or the Facebooks or the Apples of the world, they know exactly what they're doing. They know exactly their vision, they know exactly their mission statement.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

In life, we don't do that for ourselves.

[Reardon Maynard]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

And what you're telling me here is that that's what we need to do. We need to have a mission statement. We need to have an. A compelling future. We need to know where we're going, and then that will bring us the sort of happiness and contentness and understanding of where we're going in life.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. As long as you change your behavior. Because the principle, all the stuff I've just talked about is quite well known that if you have this view of where you're going, if you have a good plan, if you have specific goals, it's well known that that helps you achieve what the theories miss. I think is how do you turn that into reality? Because you've got to change your behaviors, you've got to change the way that you think in order to become the person that can achieve the plan and reach this future that you've defined. And so, you know, for instance, if you've. And this doesn't just apply. I mean, people think this just applies if you want to make more money or you want to be successful, as we define success, it isn't that it's to do with anyone's life. It's to do with working out. Well, I call it. You've got to learn to love the life you live. And that means that whatever you believe is important in your life, you've got to learn to love it. And that means defining what it is and creating the behaviors and the way of thinking about it that allows you to achieve what you want to achieve within it and love it. Whether that's your wife, I mean, or your partner, your husband, whatever it might be, or whether it's your children or whether it's your work or whatever it might be, you've got to learn to love it or get rid of it and do something else, because what's the point otherwise? I mean, I just don't understand. Why would you. We're not here very long. And why would you spend one minute in that abyss that I was in when you don't need to. You just don't need to be in it? There's. There's some steps you can take to fix it.

[Jamie Laing]

You are the first guest ever we've had on twice.

[Reardon Maynard]

Is that true?

[Jamie Laing]

We've never had anyone on twice.

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh, well, that makes me feel quite good. Thank you very much. I must actually thank you for putting me on the first time. I mean, it was very brave of you, I think, because it's quite a contentious subject.

[Jamie Laing]

Well, why. Why do you think it is?

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, because I really fucked up, didn't I? And, you know, some of my decisions were not great. And so for you to give me the opportunity to come and sort of tell my side of the story is much appreciated.

[Jamie Laing]

There were two parts to our conversation that we had. One which was about prison. Well, there were three parts. Prison, mental resilience and family. When we were talking about prison and mental resilience, you were very measured. And when it came to family, that's when you probably were a bit wobbly.

[Reardon Maynard]

Understandably. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

We had a email in from your son, Gussie.

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh, my God, don't do that. Yeah, I don't need that. No, I do need it, Gussie, but I'm not saying I don't need your email. Oh, shit. What's he said?

[Jamie Laing]

Gussie's.

[Reardon Maynard]

You're hijacking me or whatever the word is.

[Jamie Laing]

How old is Gussie?

[Reardon Maynard]

18.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay, so Gussie said. I'm Gussie, Maynard Reardon's son. I would like. The next time you're with him or next time he does the podcast, tell him you're a little wuss boy.

[Reardon Maynard]

That is Gussie.

[Jamie Laing]

But tell him it's anonymous. Can't let his ego get too high. Now he's on a podcast. Thank you.

[Reardon Maynard]

That is Gussie. Yeah. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, he is. He's pretty direct.

[Jamie Laing]

Cause I think the one thing. And I want to get into lots of different things. More about mental resilience, more about your time out of prison, and a bit more about prison. But the one thing is the whole experience was like, for your family and what it was like when all of that happened, because from what you've told me, you don't have any contact with them when you're inside.

[Reardon Maynard]

No, that's.

[Jamie Laing]

You do, but. But it's not. There's not a huge amount.

[Reardon Maynard]

No, you. You're highly restricted. They issue you with a number of minutes per month, which are.

[Jamie Laing]

How many?

[Reardon Maynard]

300. Actually, it's 150 minutes a month. But because of COVID they doubled it because I was in during COVID And so for two and a half years or however long that went on for there, there was no visitation at all. Not. Not that it was easy anyway, because I was miles away from the family, but there was no visitation. So we had. I had 300 minutes. And so I could basically speak to Tara once a day for a few minutes, and then the children once a week, and that was it. And. Yeah, but you have no. There's no. They can't contact you, and so you can only contact them. And so you can never be there if they need you, ever. Because unless there's a catastrophic event, in which case you. They can contact the prison, the prison can come and get you, you can't. So there's no contact at all. I mean, it's. It's horrific on the family. I mean, I think I said last time, I think the real punishment in this scenario is not on me. It's on the family, because I'm, you know, I get completely looked after by the state. I mean, everything I need is given to me. But they're left completely destitute with no support system, nothing. And it's especially accentuated if you live in a foreign country because you're. You don't even have your extended family around your family to support them. And so it's you sort of double whammy.

[Jamie Laing]

Because how does your relationship during that period change with your family, would you say, for most people who go to prison, would you think?

[Reardon Maynard]

I think it decimates the relationship for most people. I don't think it did in my case, only because of Tara, because she didn't vilify me and. Which is. You would sort of. You couldn't blame her if you did. And that meant that she kept the children engaged with me all the time. And so we managed through it. But it's an odds. It's very odd because you become a distant almost. You become a virtual part of their life, not a real. You're not, you're in, you're not in it in any way physically. And so it's an odd, it's quite odd. You become like a pen pal type is. It's an odd relationship and it probably.

[Jamie Laing]

Makes you realize how important family is.

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

You realize that it's everything, basically.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Because when that's stripped from you. Right. And you're just taken. When you're left with yourself and as you said, you only have the few things you have, your mind, the, the gym, all you think about is your family.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, that's totally true. Yeah. And. Well, that's true of, of everything. You start to appreciate everything.

[Jamie Laing]

What has been your relationship like with your family since getting out?

[Reardon Maynard]

Oh, spectacular. I think, I mean, in and progressing. So you start. It's a bit odd when you, when you get, when you get out and you, you interact. It's a bit odd. You know, I've been away.

[Jamie Laing]

Describe it to me.

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, it's like, it's a, it's like being a stranger with someone you know really well. Yeah, it's an odd, it's a really odd dynamic. And you know, there's a lot of angst, unspoken angst, because the, the, the, the events, they're so torturous mentally that there's all lots of built up angst everywhere. And so you have to sort of go through. You're almost going through the motions initially and then you've got to see how it develops. And in, in this case, for me, it's been just remarkable. My relationship with Tara is amazing.

[Jamie Laing]

Now, isn't that amazing?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is amazing. Yeah. But that's again thanks to her because she could quite easily, you know, think, what a fucking ass. I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to spend one more minute with this chap. And so she's. Yes, mainly thanks to her. But it's. It's remarkable. And with the children, you know, really fantastic.

[Jamie Laing]

Do they ask questions?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, they do. But it's interesting, with children, there's an age where they do, and then there's an age where they stop. I've noticed.

[Jamie Laing]

Really?

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

I would ask questions all the time. I do. When I'm with you, I ask questions all the time.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah, I know you do. Yeah. Yeah. That's why you're rather good at your job. Yeah. They're always asking questions and. But now it's sort of back to. It's relatively normal. I mean, I would think, if, you know, because, of course, we're separate, they're in America and I'm here. But they are coming next week for a few weeks.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah. Which will be amazing.

[Jamie Laing]

I've got one more question for you.

[Reardon Maynard]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Podcasting is a great time to kind of speak your mind and say what you want and for people to hear it and people to listen. Do you think there's anything that you would like to say to your family that you've never said?

[Reardon Maynard]

Well, not that I'd never said, but I would like to say how much I love them because I'm not very good at saying that. I find that quite hard to say for some reason. I don't really know why, and obviously I miss them very much, but I'm very excited about them coming. I'm very proud of them and. Yeah, yeah, I see what you're trying to do.

[Jamie Laing]

Brittany, you're amazing. You're incredible. Thank you so much for these two episodes. It's been fantastic, and I'm just very excited to see where all of this takes you.

[Reardon Maynard]

Me, too.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. I'm going to be enjoying the journey with you, I think. I think it's great. I think. Yeah. I think what you've done, made mistakes and done your time and come out and trying to do things better for people and life and everything. I think it's pretty special. So thank you so much for coming on again and giving me your time. This has been amazing.

[Reardon Maynard]

Thanks, Jamie.

[Jamie Laing]

Amazing.

[Reardon Maynard]

Was it all right? It was amazing.

[Jamie Laing]

There you go. What a great one.

[Jemima]

That was great. I feel like episode one was very kind of overview of everything, and this was just the deep dives of all the spaces that we wanted to go.

[Jamie Laing]

And he's just. He's so scary. He's never done a podcast. That's what's so funny. He has never done a podcast apart from with me and he feels like he's a seasoned pro.

[Jemima]

I know. And everyone was so excited to have Reardon back in the studio today.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, he's part of the furniture in lots of ways now. He's amazing. He's incredible. We really hope you guys enjoyed it as well. It's a real lesson of how you can turn your life around and when you're really at the top, which Reardon was never. As soon as you think you're at the top, that's the moment it starts to fall down. So, so many lessons in that now. We hope you enjoyed the episode as always. Please get in touch, let us know what you think of the show, what guests you want on next, anything at all. Company Podcast on Instagram or you can send us an email great [e-mail] and of course we're going to see you next week for another episode of Great Company.

[Reardon Maynard]

Hey, it's Mark Marin from WTF here to let you know that this podcast.

[Mark Marin]

Is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because.

[Reardon Maynard]

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[Mark Marin]

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[Reardon Maynard]

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