RIZZLE KICKS: MY ANXIETY PARALYSED ME

Summary

Great Company with Jamie Laing – Episode Summary: Rizzle Kicks: My Anxiety Paralyzed Me

Release Date: November 13, 2024

In this deeply personal and engaging episode of Great Company with Jamie Laing, host Jamie sits down with the dynamic duo from Rizzle Kicks, Jordan Stevens and Harley, to explore their journey through fame, mental health struggles, and their resilient comeback to the music scene. The conversation delves into themes of anxiety, ADHD, racial identity, and the importance of supportive relationships, offering listeners an intimate glimpse into the lives of these talented artists.

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1. Introduction to Rizzle Kicks and Their Return

Jamie Laing opens the episode with palpable excitement about welcoming Rizzle Kicks back to the show after a significant hiatus. He highlights their initial rise to fame, their decision to pause due to Harley's severe anxiety, and their recent resurgence in the music industry.

• Jamie Laing [03:44]: "We're really, really big. We're really amazing. We're really excited."

2. Childhood and Early Experiences

Jordan Stevens shares his experiences growing up as one of the few Black children in a predominantly white school in Brighton, reflecting on the normalized racism he encountered and its lasting impact on his self-esteem and racial identity.

• Jordan Stevens [07:06]: "I only realized the impact that had on me when I grew into an adult... It was so normalized that I kind of became part of it myself."

Harley echoes similar sentiments, discussing the challenges of being in a minority and the pressures to assimilate, which often led to a compromised sense of self-worth.

• Harley [09:42]: "If my being there is someone's only experience of being around blackness, they'll try things to see where the boundary is."

3. Navigating Mental Health: Anxiety and ADHD

The conversation shifts to the duo's mental health struggles. Jordan opens up about his diagnosis with ADHD at 15 and how it intertwined with his experiences of anger and emotional suppression during his formative years.

• Jordan Stevens [13:28]: "I was considered an A star student and I didn't get a single A... I threw my work at the teacher."

Harley discusses his severe anxiety attacks, including a pivotal moment on stage that led to a panic attack, forcing them to cancel their tour and prioritize their mental well-being over their burgeoning careers.

• Jordan Stevens [31:19]: "We took a step back and just said, look, we need to work on ourselves. That was the best thing we could have done."

4. The Impact of Family and Relationships

Jordan delves into his complex relationship with his father, a Nigerian man who struggled with his racial identity, and how this influenced Jordan's approach to fatherhood and his desire to provide a supportive environment for his own children.

• Jordan Stevens [08:25]: "I want to celebrate and encourage all my kids... I want them to have an understanding of it."

Harley shares insights into his family dynamics, emphasizing the lack of a present father figure and how meeting Jemima, his supportive partner, played a crucial role in his healing process.

• Harley [53:47]: "When I met my wife, she showed love but not the sort of validation love that I needed."

5. Overcoming Obstacles and Embracing Resilience

The duo discusses their collective decision to prioritize mental health over immediate success, contrasting their experience with others in the industry who succumbed to unhealthy lifestyles.

• Harley [35:18]: "We have to live with the expectation of something that we've overachieved, which makes you just a little lost."

Jordan recounts his struggle with OCD and how therapy helped him reframe his relationship with intrusive thoughts, leading to better coping mechanisms.

• Jordan Stevens [37:07]: "Once I understood that about OCD, it got so much easier to cope with."

Jemima highlights the importance of heartfelt connections and moving away from seeking external validation, fostering a healthier approach to both personal life and their music career.

• Jemima [43:17]: "I've only found that in the later part of my 20s, where now the friendships I have are based around a heartfelt connection."

6. Rebuilding the Music Career with New Perspectives

Reflecting on their return to music, Rizzle Kicks emphasize a more grounded and values-driven approach, focusing on love, connection, and resilience rather than the pressures of fame.

• Jemima [56:03]: "We are bringing through an energy that is reflective of something a bit more uplifted."

Jordan adds that their immediate success created unrealistic expectations, but their current mindset allows them to navigate the music industry more sustainably.

• Jordan Stevens [28:06]: "The album is double platinum now, which is insane... but our second album sold fewer because we haven't overachieved."

7. Personal Growth and Future Aspirations

As the episode draws to a close, Rizzle Kicks share their personal growth journeys, the importance of supportive partners, and their aspirations for future tours and projects. They also discuss the release of Jemima's book, which delves deeper into their mental health journeys.

• Jemima [59:42]: "People who struggle to read can listen to my book... It's written by someone who has a very dynamic thought process."

8. Quick-Fire Questions: Moments of Levity and Insight

To end the episode on a lighter note, Jamie conducts a quick-fire segment with Rizzle Kicks, revealing amusing and heartfelt insights into their personalities and relationships.

• Jordan Stevens [62:10]: "Harley, I love you."
• Jemima [64:14]: "Ing with your mouth open?" (Referring to a turn-off)
• Jordan Stevens [65:00]: "Harley, I love you."

9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Jamie wraps up the episode by expressing his gratitude for the openness and vulnerability shared by Rizzle Kicks, highlighting the importance of such conversations in destigmatizing mental health issues.

• Jamie Laing [66:10]: "Guys, honestly, I just want to say I really appreciate you guys coming on and your music's going to be amazing..."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jordan Stevens [31:19]: "We took a step back and just said, look, we need to work on ourselves. That was the best thing we could have done."

• Jemima [43:17]: "I've been listening to it and you're..." (Referring to her book’s impact)

• Jemima [56:03]: "We are bringing through an energy that is reflective of something a bit more uplifted."

• Jordan Stevens [28:06]: "The album is double platinum now, which is insane... but our second album sold fewer because we haven't overachieved."

• Jamie Laing [66:10]: "Guys, honestly, I just want to say I really appreciate you guys coming on and your music's going to be amazing..."

Key Takeaways

• Mental Health Awareness: The episode underscores the importance of recognizing and addressing mental health issues like anxiety, ADHD, and OCD, especially in high-pressure environments like the music industry.

• Resilience Through Support: Rizzle Kicks highlight how supportive relationships and therapy can play pivotal roles in overcoming personal struggles and fostering growth.

• Redefining Success: Moving away from immediate fame and embracing a values-driven approach allows for sustainable success and personal well-being.

• Celebrating Diversity and Identity: The duo's discussions on racial identity and their upbringing shed light on the complexities of navigating minority experiences in predominantly homogeneous settings.

• Authentic Connections: Emphasizing heartfelt relationships over superficial validation leads to more meaningful personal and professional lives.

This episode serves as a powerful testament to the human spirit's ability to overcome adversity, emphasizing that success intertwined with personal happiness and mental health is not only achievable but essential.

Transcript

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[Evan]

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[Jamie Laing]

Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Laing, and this is great company. Hello, Jemima. Jemima's laughing because I just coughed. She had a coughing fit before we started.

[Stephanie]

We've cut that out. We've got that out.

[Jamie Laing]

How are you?

[Stephanie]

I'm well. I've got a Cough, for starters. How are you?

[Jamie Laing]

I'm great. You should introduce yourself. I'm Jemima, the producer of the show. I am Jamie, the host.

[Stephanie]

I have an awkward twitch of doing a northern accent and I.

[Jamie Laing]

Cause you're not northern.

[Jemima]

Maybe.

[Stephanie]

I know, I know. You know, when you're nervous, you have. Sometimes people hum.

[Jamie Laing]

I do that.

[Stephanie]

Yeah. And sometimes when I'm on edge, I'll just say a word in a really dodgy northern accent.

[Jamie Laing]

That's really funny. Why do we get awkward, do weird things? Why do we hum?

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Stephanie]

You're like, good morning. Actually, so many of these podcasts are like that. It's because we're so nervous to be here, ladies and gents.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay, listen. Big episode today because we have.

[Stephanie]

I'm all over the place. Sorry, I'm knocking on people.

[Jamie Laing]

Table. Very exciting. Because we have Rizzle Kicks on the show.

[Stephanie]

Rizzle Kicks.

[Jamie Laing]

Jordan and Steven.

[Stephanie]

No, he's called Jordan Stevens. And then Harley.

[Jamie Laing]

We have Jordan and Harley.

[Stephanie]

Jordan and Harley. They're back.

[Jamie Laing]

They're back.

[Stephanie]

Rizzle Kicks are back.

[Jamie Laing]

If you don't know who Rizzle Kicks are, where have you been? Huge, huge sort of duo band a few years ago. We're really, really big. We're really amazing. We're really excited. Yeah.

[Stephanie]

10 years ago.

[Jamie Laing]

10 years. They grew to huge fame. And then Harley had severe anxiety and mental health and then they decided to take a pause and they haven't been back, but they're finally back. They're re recording music and they're going on tour and they're coming on both of them on the podcast, which is very exciting.

[Stephanie]

First ever duo.

[Jamie Laing]

First ever duo. What are you thinking?

[Stephanie]

I'm very, very excited to have them in. I think what they did in terms of taking a step back from huge success at that time was very brave. Very brave, but very modern, ahead of their time. You know, Simone biles back in 2021 in the O picks in Tokyo said, you know, this is. I need to. I need to not compete. Like, my head's not in a good place. And got a lot of flack for that. They did that 10 years ago.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And I'm interested to find out what the sort of decision behind it was, because peak of fame, young, all these different things and then taking a step back. It's kind of a wild decision.

[Stephanie]

It's also our first ever duo.

[Jamie Laing]

I know. So what should I do?

[Stephanie]

We've got different chairs.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay.

[Stephanie]

Because we only have two of these chairs.

[Jamie Laing]

Obviously they're not going to be sitting on the same chair.

[Harley]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

So they're going to be on different chairs and you're also going to be.

[Stephanie]

On a different chair.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay, fine. So if Anyone who's watching YouTube, you're warning them that they're on different chairs.

[Stephanie]

If you're interested, go check it out. Different chairs. Got that to look forward to.

[Jamie Laing]

That's cool. And it is a due. So I have to point.

[Stephanie]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

The conversation at an individual and not just ask broad sort of questions as a group. I suppose.

[Stephanie]

And also so with your briefing doc that we. We I separated into three sections. So there's a bit on Rizzle Kicks, then a bit on Jordan and a bit on Harley. Harley next to nothing out there about him.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. I think he's very private. I don't think he has social media.

[Stephanie]

No. So that's also going be a thing where there's like Jordan will have a. We know a lot. So there's a lot of things we can ask Jordan. Whereas Harley less so. But I also think because they're a duo, they're used to doing interviews as A2.

[Jamie Laing]

And also Jordan has discussed addiction and ADHD and we're going to get into all of that. So I'm very, very excited.

[Jemima]

Are you?

[Stephanie]

I'm very excited.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay. Also, before we kick things off, if you haven't already clicked that subscribe or follow button.

[Stephanie]

Such a tease. You thought the episode was about to begin.

[Jamie Laing]

I know wherever you're listening to this, it makes a huge amount of difference to us. So if you can please click that button, that would so, so much to us. Okay. You ready for this? Yes, please. Welcome to Great Company, Jordan and Harley from Rizzle Kicks.

[Jordan Stevens]

Hi, it's Rizzle Kicks and we are great company.

[Jemima]

What?

[Jordan Stevens]

Oh, my bones pick.

[Jamie Laing]

What is it, man?

[Jordan Stevens]

You nearly made me fat. Yeah, yeah, brother. Brother on my life. Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

So worry about it, man.

[Jordan Stevens]

Jordan knows I like sweets. Yeah.

[Jemima]

I mentioned it earlier.

[Jordan Stevens]

I'm like Friday, Saturday night, like treat vibe. Yeah, brother. I bought a candy kittens in the morning once and that's when I knew I had to never eat them ever again.

[Jamie Laing]

That's when the problem sets in, man.

[Jordan Stevens]

I never. I've not eaten them since then.

[Jamie Laing]

Well, you're getting. I get a whole bunch today, so I can't wait. I really appreciate it.

[Jordan Stevens]

Can I take a box home?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, you can take more than a box. I want to take it back. Okay. Because I want to talk about the, the. The music, you guys getting back together. But I want to draw it way back to the beginning and I want to. What I really want to do is get your individual stories as well. So I'm going to start with you. You grew up in Brighton, right?

[Jordan Stevens]

Well, grew up in London, then moved to Brighton for like, like secondary school. Yeah. Which was, which was kind of like. I only realized the impact that had on me when I grew into an adult. Like so bear in mind I grew up in like north London with green kind of like everyone I knew, all my friends were kind of like, you know, black Muslim, whatever, like loads of. And then I moved to Brighton when I was like 11 or 12 and I was like probably same situation to Jordan, one of three black kids in the entire school. And it was really strange because like racism was just like normal. I know we're getting like, I'm getting deep.

[Jamie Laing]

This is great, man. What do you guys think?

[Jordan Stevens]

It was, it was, it was like. It was so normalized that I kind of became part of it myself and was like, oh yeah, that was funny. That like racist joke you just told. And but, but you got. I got so acclimatized to it that it wasn't until I moved back to London when I was like 17, 18 that I realized how insane that that jump was going from, you know, a place with such like different energy, different vibes, different everything to like such a, like kind of close minded, one race.

[Jamie Laing]

It was a.

[Jordan Stevens]

And, and, and I think it played a big part on like my feelings as an adult. My feelings towards my color, my, my, my race, my heritage.

[Jamie Laing]

But explain that John. Did you have the same thing?

[Jemima]

Yeah, yeah, Brighton. I mean, yeah, Brighton's a. Was open minded in some senses and then, and just. I'm not. Some places would have been closed minded but I, I think just naturally when you're in a space where there aren't, you are literally the minority or whatever because like I say in London, the beauty of London is you have this like cauldro culture that you are, you know, rubbing shoulders with and you're able to grow with these people and understand, you know. Like when I was at school in Nice, then in primary school there were loads of Hindus in my school and I actually just developed this real fascination with Hinduism because I thought the gods were really cool and the stories were amazing and you know, so that's the kind of insight that would be in my mind that's the benefit of diversity in, in Brighton there was just less diversity. So if you're wanting to fit in or I was wanting to fit in. Some of the sacrifices of maybe self worth to assimilate are quite sad to look back on, you know what I mean? So if my being there is someone's only experience of, of like being around blackness, then they'll try things as teenagers will do, say things, act in particular ways to just see where the, the boundary is. Yeah, especially when we played football. I remember I played football and we would play like neighboring villages and towns and, and they were wild. Yeah, like, yeah, I mean it's got.

[Jordan Stevens]

Even more wild when I, when I started playing cricket. You'd be surprised how few.

[Jemima]

I'm not surprised about cricket.

[Jordan Stevens]

But there was, but there was like surprisingly small amount of like Asian community down that way because crickets are huge in Asian community. But yeah, it was, it was kind of a crazy experience that I don't, don't really appreciate. Not appreciate but understand fully until now. Until my. And that's why with my children, so they're my son especially who's six, he's, he's a tiny bit confused about his race because my partner's white and so he's, he's, you could tell he's mixed race, but he's very, he's very light skinned and so he's, he's baffed about like what he is, what color he is, what race. Yeah, he's really confused because like me and my dad aren't like super tight so he doesn't see him very often. So he doesn't have that side of his, his family to kind of like look at and understand. And so. But that's why a big part of me who wants to raise them in London as sometimes I have fears of raising my children London, but I want them to, you know, experience everything, understand everything. And I think that's a big part of why I wouldn't want to move out of this con out of the city.

[Jemima]

How aware I would London.

[Jamie Laing]

How aware of it at the time were you guys? Because I think Harley, as you said, you know, people were making racist jokes and you were just joining along with it and you said you don't really realize the impact of it. How aware of it were you at the time that what people were saying was wrong?

[Jordan Stevens]

I, that do you know what it was? It was, it was only within my friendship group and you know, like as we've gotten older, like the ones who are like more like into that have like profusely apologized and been like, you know, I was young and. But with them I kind of like didn't, it was nothing, didn't understand any of it. It was just like part of the culture of, of being a teenager. In Brighton. But if it was. But it was odd because if it was someone I didn't know, it was like, chaos. And I would get super angry and I would fight and I would. And weirdly, my friends would fight for me, despite the fact that they would, you know, also be kind of part of it. But let's say, you know, I kind of, like, was quite at times. Jordan seen it. I've. I've. I used to get really angry.

[Jamie Laing]

Really?

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to the point when it. It doesn't happen as that much anymore. But see red, like, if I. If I feel a level of, like, disrespect, nothing else really comes in. I just see red and I get very, very, very angry very quickly. And that often happened when I was a kid, which obviously didn't help, like, my labeling as, like, a angry black kid. All that kind of thing that just like, kind of fed into it a lot more. And I don't think, you know, I love my mom, and we've gone through some rough, rough patches where we're good now, but like, she. She also didn't understand that kind of thing and would, you know, would. Would often, you know, wouldn't understand why I was getting so cross and why I hated living where I lived at the time. And I didn't really understand, so I couldn't really verbalize it properly. But it's just. It's small things, you know, like, even I had, like, big afro. I. Big Afro hair. I. I always saw my afro as kind of like a sign of, like, who I was in a sense, because I see kids now in London that. And their hair is, like, so well groomed. It's, like, so well oiled, so well kept. And, like, my hair was just like a mess, you know, it was all over the place, like, because my mom just didn't know what to do with it. And that. And that for me, I think back and I'm like, I wish I was, like, proud to have that hair, but back in the day, it was like. It was just so messy, naughty to the point where I'm just shave it, you know, and. And even that, like, now I can't grow hair when I really want to have hair. You got to give me your guy, by the way.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, well, the one that did the plugs of it. But it's confusing, I think, is as teenagers, what you. It's like a really confusing time. And then you had these anger issues, and then you got d. Diagnosed with ADHD when you were 15. And that man is Confusing because, you know, I. I can even see it. I. Adhd.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Some form, but the form. Yeah. Forgive me for. For trying to diagnose it, but. But you have the. More fidgetiness and we can see it here. Right. So.

[Jemima]

And.

[Jamie Laing]

And it shows. Or. When I've been with you, you find it hard to sit still. And so, you know, especially in a conversation like this, I can tell I'm the same. It's like, you know, you. You can get distracted. So how. As a teenager, that's hard.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

I didn't like school. I didn't get along with school. But in terms of, like, understanding, you know, my place in Brighton, I am an only child. I think so. Well, for most of my life, I've been an only child.

[Jamie Laing]

And let's go deep as well, guys.

[Jordan Stevens]

This is deeper than. Deeper than.

[Jemima]

This is the deepest Harley's ever gone. I don't even know. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, so it's. It's. Yeah, it was. I just. But I was like. I was completely delusional as a teenager and I was seemingly completely. I. I'd been embarrassed and rejected so often that in my. In my school life, like, I was bullied when I was at school and in primary school and then in secondary school, I kind of wasn't bullied, but I was definitely odd because I didn't understand the. How that friendship really worked. I didn't understand why people were doing nothing together. Like, I had this productive mindset when I was a teenager, so I really just kind of. I didn't think I needed anything other than my own time and space in order to push me and my mom out of the space that we were living in. So when I got diagnosed with ADHD at 15, I actually didn't really care. And when I had the exam, I hated exams. I missed all my targets at school. I was considered an A star student and I didn't get a single A, I don't think. I just didn't. And I wasn't stressed about it. I was like. I didn't think I needed it to. To go where I wanted to go, so. Really? No, not at all. I was stressed at the time because obviously, like, I got like, unmarkable. I think in one of the exams, I got an E and arcs. I threw my work at the teacher. But it was. But. But it wasn't like an aggressive, violent thing. It wasn't at the teachers, like, towards the teacher.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

In a safe. In an artist.

[Jamie Laing]

It was in an artistic way. Yeah. Wait, this is art what are you talking about?

[Jemima]

Well, he just like, he mugged me off. I know I won't get into it, but, you know, even lessons, I really enjoyed the coursework side of it, I'd nail. It's just like the exam. An hour to prove what I've learned over two years. It just fundamentally doesn't make sense to me. I don't think. Makes sense in many different spaces.

[Jordan Stevens]

When did you know you had like, some kind of.

[Jemima]

I don't think he's actually. You've not been diagnosed?

[Jamie Laing]

I'm being diagnosed at the moment. I had it as a. I had it as a kid. They. I got diagnosed. But I mean, it was like a weird thing at school. They said, oh, this, this. It wasn't. It was add that. That. They said. But then, dude, as a kid, I. I couldn't sit still. I had tantrums. I. Unless I was highly focused on, like, sport or something like that, that was my outlet.

[Jemima]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

So that kind of really helped me. But I. But I think what's interesting is also my family life was a bit, you know, divorce, sent to boarding school, but it was all like, a lot going on.

[Jemima]

How long were you at boarding school?

[Jamie Laing]

I went to boarding school at eight.

[Jemima]

For how long?

[Jamie Laing]

Eight years.

[Jemima]

How many years?

[Jamie Laing]

Ten years.

[Jordan Stevens]

That's insane.

[Jemima]

Yeah. What the.

[Jordan Stevens]

Where did you grow up?

[Jamie Laing]

I grew up in. Near Oxford and then moved to London when my parents got divorced around 7. Went to boarding school.

[Jemima]

How often do you see your family when you're in boarding school?

[Jamie Laing]

Every three weeks for a weekend.

[Jordan Stevens]

That's insane. As a child that young. That's blowing my mind.

[Jamie Laing]

So. So what's interesting for me is do you think that's.

[Jordan Stevens]

Sorry. Do you had an effect on anything as you've gotten older?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, yeah. Huge effect. To the point where. Oh, I mean, like, suppressing emotions. Yeah. I just, you know, wanting to please not be able to. Being embarrassed about saying anything. Because you're in a dormitory of 12 kids and if you cry, you're the weak ones, really.

[Jemima]

That hierarchical thing just happened straight up, straight away. Like there's the, Like.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, yeah, straight away. And you. And you. It's. It's a. It's a food chain. Straight away, you go in there and you. Straight away, eight years old, notice who the lions are. And you.

[Jordan Stevens]

And was it full of people who'd already been there or was it like.

[Jamie Laing]

All you, same year? So you go in eight. They're older years.

[Jordan Stevens]

Right.

[Jamie Laing]

And the older years is even more hierarchical, as you can imagine. Yeah, it's it's wild and so, but so, so I always look at, you know, we, we. I always look at family life and honey, you mentioned that you're, you didn't have a relationship with your dad and John, you mentioned that your mum was like, what was your relationships like with your parents? With growing up.

[Jemima]

My mum and dad have always been mates. I can't, I don't really have any memories of them together. But yeah, my mum was like very creatively supportive of me. Like she enforced, not enforced, she encouraged like a creative expression and celebrated it. And so I really had a belief in my own creativity as a child. And then later on, you know, I had to kind of reckon with perhaps how my mum treated herself, you know, because she was, she's a fighter but she, you know, it's tough being in that space. And also we live in a world in a system where if not on top of the capitalist expectations of society, it crushes you, you know. So all my early memories and experiences are seeing people, you know, on the dole, on estates, struggling to keep their head above water and being punished at every turn. And I, and that just doesn't make sense to me. And, and to be, and to be fair, you know, I think the highest, the most represented demographic of ADHD boys in single parent, low income households. So there's definitely, I'm a, I'm a firm believer in Gabon, mate' to the outlook on ADHD and that there's, there's a. You're born with a propensity, you know, because I think my mum and dad do explain that.

[Jamie Laing]

What do you mean?

[Jemima]

Like my mom and dad are definitely, you know, I guess being that they're creative and whatever else, the way they approach life and organize and don't organize and my dad's quite clumsy and all these kind of things. There'll be some kind of, you know, obviously when they're growing up they don't have the same analysis and given these titles. So that'll be in my wiring being that I'm halfway my mom and half my dad, but it's the environment that I'm born into. The Gabor Mate says the environment can basically like trigger those. The argument is like, I could have an opportunity if I'm to have a child in the future, I could have an opportunity for my child to maybe not take on so many of my symptoms. If they're encouraged to settle a little bit more in their environment or they're given everything they need in order to feel more secure. I mean, you just had Alan de Botton on. You don't need me for this.

[Jamie Laing]

No, man, no. But you speak from the heart.

[Jemima]

He's one of the guys I listen to about this stuff because it is, it is. I think it's nature and nurture, basically. That's what I mean.

[Jamie Laing]

And that's what I'm sort of getting at. And Hadi, what about you? What was your relationship like with your parents again?

[Jordan Stevens]

Weren't, weren't. Don't have a memory of them being ever together. My relationship, my dad is more of like an interesting one because he's like, he's like a really good man. Like, he's like a good man, but he, you know, he's moved over here from Nigeria when he was, like, pretty young and then his parents wanted him back, so he got sent back. He was back and forth between here and Nigeria for a long time and then ended up being fostered by a lovely woman called Jocelyn. But he, he is crazy to me because, like, he hates his blackness, like, beyond I've ever experienced. So, like, obviously he experienced bullying to, like, another level, right? Growing like, in the 70s in London as a full, full, like, Nigerian man. Like, it was bad for him, but, like, to the point now where, so for example, my, my, my daughter's called Awala, which is like a Nigerian name. And she, but she's even more than my son. She, like, she could probably pass as a white girl, but my dad was like, you shouldn't have called her a walla, because now people are going to know that she's African. And to me, I was like, that's, that's, like, that's really sad. I, I, I understand, like, what has happened to you and like, and you know, it's not completely a different world, but it is to a degree. And I, I, for me, like, blackness, I want to celebrate and like, encourage all my kids and like, you know, if they want to identify as whatever they want to do that' like, I want them to at least, like, have an understanding of it. Whereas I never had that understanding because me and my dad don't have that kind of relationship. And even if we did, he would have, like, suppressed it and squashed it anyway because of his hatred towards his own race and skin color. And, and yeah, he's a good man, but, like, he didn't really have an understanding of how to be a dad because he never had a dad, you know, and that's something I've only begun to understand since becoming a dad, is that if you don't have that Kind of person to learn from when you're super young. Like, it's tough and like, I wouldn't say I'm the best parent in the world, but I, I've always grew up with the mentalities. I really want to be a good dad because I want to prove that you don't have to have like a super present father figure to actually be a great father. And I think I've somewhat achieved that. But he's a good part. He's a good person. He's not like a bad like, like runaway dad who's like, you know, he's the type of person who like will never text you. Never in a Millionaires will ask you if you want to hang out or do anything. But if you say to him like, do you want to cancel all of your plans like in the next four hours and like go and do something with me and the kids, he'll be like, just give me time and place. You know, he, I think he's a little bit autistic. I just don't think he fully again, understands like pretty normal social cues and understand. I don't know. Again, I'm self diagnosing.

[Jamie Laing]

No, but, but, but, but I get it. But I mean, what's amazing, right, is that I like, I'm assessed with sort of male role models and things like that. And I think they're so important in life. And then, you know, John, you found, you found it hard to find male role models, right, in life, isn't that right? And yeah, and what I find interesting, right, is that you guys then meet each other and it feels like like you suddenly found that sort of role model in each other.

[Jemima]

Definitely not.

[Jamie Laing]

But how did, well, how did you.

[Jordan Stevens]

Guys do not think what we.

[Jemima]

Each other's role models.

[Jordan Stevens]

I don't think role models may be the correct word.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, but you found a brotherly love with each other that you haven't had before and so you could connect maybe with a male in your life. You're like, oh my God, we like the same thing. We like music. Oh my God, this is great. Let's do this.

[Jemima]

Has a brother.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah, but I don't. It's different. He's like 10 years younger than me.

[Jemima]

Yeah, true.

[Jamie Laing]

You guys find each other in Brighton. You connect, you start creating this music, you put it on YouTube. You're found on YouTube, you know, island Records, isn't it that, that, that say, right. We want to sign you guys for any like, especially at that time. The sky's the limit.

[Jordan Stevens]

It was organic for sure. That's. That's what it felt like compared to this day and age.

[Jemima]

You know, we got like, you know, we got. Yeah, three or three. Three offers and. And we went with a guy called Nick who's. He signed. He had signed Adele and as your article. So we were like, yeah, he sounds good. And then another guy offered us an iPad and we thought I was a bit dodge. So we just. So that wasn't the only deal as well as money. It wasn't just his. And iPads at the time, bro, iPads were wild. This is like. This is. This is 2010. IPhones came out in 2007. So that was like revolutionary to have like a. But yeah, it was. It was. Yeah. But again, like, I really emphasize, I was truly delusional as a teenager. So I didn't even think it was weird. I was like, oh, yeah, we'll get signed, sure. And then I reckon we'll probably just like be high in the charts.

[Jamie Laing]

But isn't that the magic of being a teenager, being young as well? Right. There's no experience. There's always that poem, which I love, which is about innocence and experience. How experience kills innocence.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And actually we kind of want to say innocent forever because then we're not learned. We don't learn on these things.

[Jemima]

Yeah, but isn't innocent there just being used as a replacement for ignorance? Yeah, possibly because. Because like the whole. Yeah, you get a beautiful window where you can. You can excuse idiocy and like, with. You can have. Be overconfident and be like, you know, I'm being. You can be overconfident and stupid, but it's excusable on. Based off of age. But the dream is to be so experienced that the confidence comes from. From an informed understanding of what you can do in the world around you. That's the. That's the kind of dream, you know. But I do think, yes, the innocence and the naivety and the overconfidence based off of, like, what is the world? Brilliant and super fun. But for me, personally, I can't speak for Harley. One of the hardest things, when we put razor kicks on ice and then we're trying to grow up and. And be more grounded and. And establish, you know, healthier roots. One of the biggest complexes I had to overcome was the reality that not everything I tried guy first time is going to be successful. That was wild.

[Jamie Laing]

Explain that more.

[Jemima]

Well, it is unusual to see a video on YouTube from a record label perspective even go, all right, these boys are good. You know, I mean, we've got like appeal. It's kind of, you know, there weren't many other acts similar to us in that space. And then we tried. We put out one song and it, it went to number eight off within a month and stayed there for like almost two, three months. And then another song comes in it's top 10 and another song comes in it's number. Then our album, like that first, first try, that's not usual. And, and for us, not only did it create a space where I didn't even acknowledge that we had achieved all of our dreams within one year, but then it was like, right, where's the second album? Do you know what I mean? And then we are now having to live. We have to have to live with the expectation of something that. Where we've overachieved, essentially.

[Jamie Laing]

So, so, so what you're saying, we haven't overachieved.

[Jemima]

The album is six.

[Jamie Laing]

Thank you. And the album is, is sick albums. But the, but the. What you're saying is that having that immediate success is incredibly dangerous.

[Jemima]

Yeah, yeah, I would say that.

[Jamie Laing]

So, so then what's, what's the counter to that then? Like if you, if you. Because. Because all you want, you're going into this industry and all you want is success.

[Jemima]

No, it's the, it's climb, not climax.

[Jamie Laing]

Like. Holly, were you the same. Did you have the same sort of mentality? Because I know what you're saying. Do I agree with, with you. You're just like. You're not used to failure. So then when failure hits you, it hits you.

[Jordan Stevens]

Like, what's wild is that like. So our first album, Stereotypical, it's double platinum now, I think, which is, which is insane.

[Jamie Laing]

What does that mean for the listeners?

[Jordan Stevens]

Like, it's, it's over 600,000 record. And in a time, you know, that's, that's a lot.

[Jemima]

No one has platinum albums anymore really. Unless you're like a super, you know.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah, it's a lot of records basically.

[Jemima]

But then physical as well.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah. So. And then on our second album, which, you know, I'm super proud of that album. It's, it's. It went gold, which, which is amazing. Which is incredible. But it's only a hundred thousand. I think it's done like over 200, 000 now, but like at the time, over a hundred thousand and. But because that wasn't as good as our first album, it was not seen as like a failure. But like you want a business to, you know, if it's not going up, then technically it's a failure. But like, if, for example, the first time around we had sold 50,000, 50,000, the label would be like, wow, that's great for new artist. And then you, on the second one, you set do 150,000, I go, wow, it's growing, it's growing. But because we sold 600,000 on the first try and then only 100,000 on the second try, you, your, your view of what success gets so skewed to the point where you just then are like, lost a little.

[Jamie Laing]

You guys are young, you think you're cool. There's a huge success straight away. Unfortunately, that is typically a recipe for disaster in terms of, you know, we can get into it. Right. There's drugs.

[Jordan Stevens]

Very similar, ish experience.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, but, but for you guys, you're young, you're successful, you're good looking.

[Jemima]

Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

How do you, how do you, how do you not drift into that dark side of life?

[Jemima]

Can I say, yeah, I didn't think I was cool. I, I, I definitely enjoyed the music that we made, and I understood that we were good at it. Like, I, I thought my delusion was like, I know I'm good at writing lyrics. And people would actively be like, you're like, your, your music's awful. I remember I tried to sing on a song when I was younger, and somebody like, clipped it up and just send it around. Everyone on MSN and in me just like, laugh, laughing at me, saying I was, but this is, but I'm saying it didn't. That was normal to me. So I didn't think, like, oh, everyone's gonna think I'm cool. I was like, I'm gonna show these cool kids what hard work means. And actually my drive and ambition was, was spurred on again. This is another thing I'm now dealing with as a response. I'm now having to motivate myself from a place of harmony, not having to prove people wrong. And I found that hard. That's something I still struggle with, you know? Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Because I think, you know, what I was, I, what I was getting is that you guys had sort of these two journeys where John and you've been vocal. I want to talk about it, about drugs and alcohol and that space and, and I admire you for being open about it. Right. But, Hari, what a lot of people may not know is the anxiety attacks that you had. You, you, and I remember speaking to you, Jordan, about this years ago, and you probably won't remember. You were on stage, you had a panic attack, and that was like a light switch for You.

[Jordan Stevens]

That was it? Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What happened? Tell me about it.

[Jordan Stevens]

Like, yeah, in like kind of like a physical sense. It was just we. Me and I'd started like doing this other music. Music project and.

[Jemima]

Which is amazing, by the way.

[Jordan Stevens]

Thank you. And I had a show and look, I don't know, I'm starting to learn a little bit more about it, but I don't want. Want to like, put confirmation on that in terms of why it happened, but a big part of it because as. As you can, you know, see in our dynamic, Jordan's very upfront. He's like, very good at talking to people. He's like, you know, probably the best conversationist I've ever met. And.

[Jemima]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan Stevens]

And. And when. And. But that also translated to being on stage. So, like, I kind of got used to being able to like go on stage, John, like ramping up the crowd, like doing this, and then I'd be able to just like chime in with a little sign, whatever, and it was cool. And I always fe. Felt comfortable. But like, even if, like Jordan, like went off stage, like change his T shirt, whatever, I'd be on stage, like, I wouldn't feel nervous. I don't know what to say. And I think, you know, doing that thing on my own without Jay was like. I felt all of a sudden, like really exposed. And also a lot of the music that we wrote, especially on our first album, was. It was fun, it was happy, it was jolly, it was about kind of random you do as teenagers. But this was this music. I was heartbreak, a lot of heartbreak stuff, a lot of love songs. And I used to be a very emotionally shut off person. Like a. Like a stone, like proper, like, stoic man, no emotion type thing. And all of a sudden I'm in a room of people singing about how I got my heart broken. And all of a sudden it's just like this wave of like, oh my God, I can't believe you're exposing yourself like this. That hit me and. And then, yeah, so we. From that, like, you know, I had a panic attack. John was there, there, ambulance was there. I thought I was having a heart attack. All this. And then we had a tour. Had to cancel that because I just couldn't visualize doing that, which was, you know, I still feel awful about that, but at the time I had to take care of myself. But that anxiety spilled into everything, every part of my life. You know, I couldn't get on the tube. I couldn't, like, I couldn't. I couldn't even like Like, h. The idea of doing this, like, you know, I've said this before, but the idea of, like, sitting opposite you and, like, having a chat in room of like, 10 people, whatever, if this was, yeah, four or five years ago, I would have found any excuse not to be here. I would have, you know, crumbled. I would have been in bed for days. I would have, you know, been throwing up. I would have had anxiety. It would. It was like. And this is so, like, cas. And like, nice and like, relaxing and lovely. But, like, the idea of it just, like, really, I hated it. And.

[Jemima]

And.

[Jordan Stevens]

It kind of caused me to, like, spiral into quite a deep, deep depression because the thing I love doing, being a performer, being an artist, being a person who likes being around other creative people, was, like, zapped away from me, taken away from me. And I was kind of left with, like, this idea of who I used to be and, like, that longing to be that person again, but with the physical incapability of doing so. And, yeah, it really sent me into, like, a fucking dark, dark place, man. And that was a big part of why we had to. We took a step. Step back and just said, look, we need to just work on ourselves. And. And, you know, that's the best thing we could have done. Like, we could have. I could have powered through and could have, like. Because I think a lot of people do because they're so addicted to kind of like, that lifestyle and that celebrity culture and that, like, you know, onslaught of, like, people appreciating you that they can't take themselves out of it. But I think, you know, we. We were strong enough to kind of remove ourselves. And, you know, I had a family. I've got an amazing partner who's, like, super supportive. And I had good people around me, great friends. My children are amazing. And just living in that existence of just, like, wholesomeness and harmony was really important to be able to. Now I've, like, grown and like, sport, like you mentioned earlier, like, I use sport, like, like, as a. That's a big thing for me. Like, I need that now I'm a person. And that, don't get me wrong, like, there's going to be moments during this process where I might have a little fumble or have a little, like, moment where I'm like, oh, that's a big deal. Don't have feel about that. But I now have the tools and the understanding of myself to take that on. And, you know, Jordan's always been, like, a huge supporter of, like, since I started feeling that in that way. And it was never. I never felt a pressure to be like, let's get back on this wheel. The reason why we started making music again was, like, super organic. We just, you know, loved making music together. And that was where it all stemmed from. And it started extremely low pressure, low key. We just got in the studio, did some bits, and it was great. It was really great. And that also gave me a lot of confidence. But, you know, it's. The past, like, seven, eight years is. The early part of it was horrible. But the past, like four, three, four years has been a lovely, beautiful journey. And. And that wouldn't have happened if I'd. If I'd kept myself in. In that space, you know?

[Jamie Laing]

I mean, what said, dude? Honestly, I think really. I really appreciate you for sharing that. Because you know what the worst thing is, is when you're. The joy that you have turns into torture. And when the worst thing, which I'm sure, John, you've experienced as well. You have. I know I have. Is when you're. You feel like your brain is failing you. And it's not your physical body, it's something that you can't control and you can't start doing the thing that you still love because something's happened within you that you can't see.

[Jordan Stevens]

Did you have similar.

[Jamie Laing]

Oh, man, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I. I had same panic attack, but I was too addicted to the fame, so I didn't stop. I just drank.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

But, you know, forgive me for digging deep. I just think, look, I think we're three guys sitting here and being vulnerable, and I just think that's amazing. You know, when you go. When you. How dark did it get for you?

[Jordan Stevens]

Pretty bad. Yeah. Like, I. I always knew I had, like, some kind of ocd, but my OCD got really bad. And I think what people. People, surface level, ocd, it's like, oh, I've got to turn that light off. I gotta, you know, gotta be super tidy, like. But ocd, which I've learned through lots of therapy, is actually when it gets more intense and more difficult to deal with, is when your brain attaches itself to certain thoughts. So, for example, say you're in the market for a new car and you want to buy a Mini, right? You're gonna see a Mini. You're gonna notice Minis on the street now every time you see a Mini, because it's like, in your mind, OCD is the same thing. So you'll have, like, a thought and because your brain has attached some kind of importance to that thought. You can't let go of that thought. And. And I've had some, like, horrible ones, which now I'm like, you know, okay with. But like, even like stuff with my children, like, when I thought horrible, it's most darkest, most awful stuff that. About. About my. My family and like, what I'd. It just got really, really difficult to deal with. And. But I. And you. And you think like, this is me. This is who I am. I'm. This person has these horrible dark thoughts. And then I spoke to this therapist for a long time and she was like, how do those dark thoughts make you feel? Like, do they make you feel. And I was like, I'm terrified of them. And she was like, people have experienced dark thoughts like that and are those people feel vindicated by those thoughts and enjoy them, you know? And I was like, that's. I'm so terrified of these. And she was like, that's who you are. You're a person who is so terrified of like, being this horrible person that your brain is attached some weird importance to it to make sure you don't do that. And once I kind of understood that about ocd, it got so much easier to cope with. And, you know, I've now, I think, all the good parts of OCD where I am a clean freak. And he's so clean and like. And. And you know, I. I'm very like, you know, on the school run in the morning. I'm very. My son has to leave at this time, and he's never like, he's never been late for school. Don't get me wrong. But like, Joe, like, when I say it got. Got bad, it got really, really, really bad. I never, like, you know, I think it was like.

[Jemima]

I think it was. It was like kind of paralysis. I think your.

[Jamie Laing]

Your thought process has become so dark that you don't want to put yourself anywhere because the fear of anything that your thoughts are going to become true, that you're just like, I need to remove myself from anything.

[Jordan Stevens]

That's exactly.

[Jamie Laing]

And I totally understand. And that happens to. Dude, just. That happens to so many people.

[Jordan Stevens]

I know I've learned that now when I've. When I've. Sorry. When I've been open about like some of the darker thoughts I've had, had to my friends and to my family, they're like, wait, you. Does that. Is that real? Because, like, I've had that like so many times. Like, and I've been so worried that this. I'm this person. I'm like, no, no, you're good.

[Jamie Laing]

You're good. Don't worry.

[Jordan Stevens]

Like, you might be going through a tough time at the moment, but, like, you're good.

[Evan]

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[Harley]

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[Jordan Stevens]

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[Jamie Laing]

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[Jordan Stevens]

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[Jamie Laing]

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[Jordan Stevens]

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[Jamie Laing]

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[Jordan Stevens]

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[Jamie Laing]

Seeing a friend in that space. Not even just a friend, you know, your, your teammate, your, your, your brother, your, your, your business partner, your, your artist together. That's tough, right?

[Jemima]

Yeah, listen, it was. Yeah. We were saying just the other day that around that time actually I was so based off on productivity. Like my issues would come later. I was kind of living from the head up. I'd say I was in this kind of suspended. I would. Our response to intense anxiety differed in that it would cause Harley to freeze. And with me, I would. What is it? Fight, flight or freeze? I guess I'd fight. I guess in some sense I would embody the anxiety and just run. One of the first things my therapist said to me, which is in my book, is, no, I'm joking. One of the first things my therapist Said you should read.

[Jamie Laing]

I want to give the book. The book is called as well.

[Jemima]

Avoidance Drugs, Heartbreaking Dogs. Yeah, I'll sort you out. So like. But she said it's adhd, right? Yeah. Anxiety is my petrol. That's one of the things she said. So she asked me, do you want to get into this because you're going to struggle maybe to motivate yourself once we do the work. And I did, but we did the work and now it's coming from a healthier place. But I was so proactive that when Harley was going through these troubles, I was like, all right, he doesn't get it. I don't get it. Let's go on a journey together to discover what is that's going on with Harley. And in that process of that journey, I then realized that I also had all these issues and I was like, this journey sucks.

[Jamie Laing]

I was sweet before this.

[Jemima]

Yeah. But like, but you know, I think the ultimately aside of my own naivety and, and, and you know, again, we were both in a space where the conversation around mental health was in its own early ish years. So we're literally googling things together, trying to understand that.

[Jamie Laing]

Because there' knowledge as well.

[Jemima]

Yeah, we were trying to understand like, how does this go get past it. I'm literally sat in his house looking through things, going, do you, do you feel this? Do you feel this? And he's going, yeah, no. Yeah. And then we were recording it, all this kind of stuff. Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

You're just trying to. Guess you're trying to.

[Jemima]

We're just trying to. Well, we. Again, Harley eventually was. Got into therapy and, and you know, then I am whole came off of after this. This was like a year after.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

Like Harley said, the main, the, the most. Most I guess important choice that was made was it was a 100 mutual agreement that our own. Well, being a personal like harmony was way more important than, you know, keeping up with the other, you know, staying in this rat race and, and trying to compete with all the other artists around us. I just didn't. It's not a disturbing spec. It's more, you know, I mean, you can't put like, I. What does it mean if we went and worked our asses off in the. In spite of being and then like doing well, then you're still. The emotional world doesn't give a. About material. Well, it doesn't matter if you've got a new car. If you feel like a, you know, I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't matter.

[Jamie Laing]

But what does the what does your management say?

[Jemima]

It doesn't matter. It didn't matter. It was just if.

[Jamie Laing]

What.

[Jemima]

What they could. They. You know, a manager. He didn't. He didn't. Sorry, just for context, he didn't, like, try and make us. You know, there were. There are people around us who would encourage us. Of course, the booking agent was devastated. We canceled the tour. And, you know, our manager would try and. Actually, to be honest, he didn't at all. I think he was actually just one thing. If anything, he could have tried a bit harder, actually, to get our same music. He was actually really sure. He just. To be fair, he was like, yeah, it to be.

[Jordan Stevens]

To be. To be fair to him. He was the one who. He. He introduced me to therapists and he was very helpful in that space.

[Jemima]

Yeah. But it was also new, man. It was really new.

[Jamie Laing]

But it's amazing because Simone bars was the same thing. Height of the height of the game, and then just going, you know what? I need to look after myself. And. And it's rare. And we. The flip side of that is you see awful things like Avicii and. Do you know what I mean?

[Jordan Stevens]

If. For you. If you never gave your. When did you heal? Like, when did you give your chance?

[Jamie Laing]

When I met my wife.

[Jordan Stevens]

Okay.

[Jemima]

Really?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, I think. Think so.

[Jemima]

Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah. And she. She showed love, but not the sort of validation love that I needed. So I. I thought I need to be stroked all the time. And you know, that's not healthy. Like, she just did it in a great way.

[Jemima]

So she naturally knew not to caretake. She just. She just.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, it's just. Just was. Yeah.

[Jemima]

Wow. So she was like, secure in herself.

[Jamie Laing]

So secure, man.

[Jemima]

That's a gift, bro.

[Jordan Stevens]

It's.

[Jamie Laing]

It's an insane gift. She had so much love as a kid that she didn't understand was not having. She was just like. Yeah.

[Jordan Stevens]

So that's cool.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

Which is amazing existed, bro.

[Jamie Laing]

Not a lie, buddy. That's wild.

[Jemima]

Especially.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah, I don't know about that.

[Jemima]

God damn. I've heard about this in books.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very talent.

[Jemima]

Did you tell alone about this?

[Jamie Laing]

I tried to. I think I did.

[Jemima]

Yeah. Wow. Just give him some hope.

[Jamie Laing]

But, but, but, John, you. You have been open about your issues with drugs and alcohol, and that got pretty bad, didn't it? At some point, like, the best.

[Jemima]

The best way to encapsulate, like, the state we'd got to is actually in and around Harley's panic attack. If you don't mind me repeating the story that My dad said the other day that I put on the app album. Oh, not album. Wait, you know, album. Is that like is is. So Harley was on the phone to me when he had this panic attack. So he had basically. Anyway, the point is he had a big explainer.

[Jamie Laing]

I like this.

[Jemima]

Well, he had the panic attack. It was the first time I think he'd had a full blown panic attack. It obviously had real. Yeah, real bad anxiety. Stage anxiety. He had the nausea. But this was like seriously scary for me and him because I'm hearing him hyperventilating on the phone. He just about passed the phone to the driver and then the draw. I just asked the driver where he was and then. But the funny thing was I had been out all night, so I had, I hadn't slept in like 36 hours. I just done the worst dj set of all time in a Timberland store.

[Jordan Stevens]

I came.

[Jemima]

Yeah, I didn't remember that you came. I don't even remember that you came. It was like dreadful. I was like, just trying to get a bit of extra money probably for drugs and. And then he's had this panic attack. I've turned up like a, like his wild. You know, I've jumped out of the car like, Harley, what do you want? Do you want some Tangfastics? Sorry, Candy Kittens was around there. It would have been bones picking.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

But then, then, so then I've like run off to get him these, this, these sweets. Just a little sugar surge at the time because obviously he's, you know, just a comfort food for him at the time. And then I didn't realize that at the Timberland show I'd lost my wallet. I didn't even realize. So I've run up into Tesco's, grabbed some sweets and been like, I can't pay for. And they're like, okay. So now I've run back to everyone there, including a paramedic being like, has anyone got a five? So I mean.

[Jamie Laing]

And it was like that, that chaos.

[Jemima]

Yeah, it sums up kind of where we were both at. And yeah, for me it was, it was bizarrely. I actually probably did with my therapist in the, in my, the second half of my 20s, we untangled where the anxiety ended in the ADHD began because I think I conflated the two quite, quite heavily. And if I think back actually to the beginning of, of the, the rise, I too was experiencing quite overwhelming forms of anxiety. But I was introduced to cocaine. So like, efficiently that, like that and, and that cocaine ends up being a medication. It's an amphetamine, you know, I mean, it was probably cut with a similar chemical compound to what I'm now prescribed. Anyway, it quieted your thoughts. Yeah, so. And I remember that, you know, I used to go into these environments where we'd meet people I'd seen on telly or even weirder, you know, footballers I'd controlled on the computer, on, on the PlayStation, you know, and I would be so panicked about how I would appear to them or like how to say hello, how to say goodbye. I would overthink all of this. I was overthinking and then this, this upper would just take that away. So I was just then surfing this, this wave of, of, you know, living up here, thinking, thinking, product, creating product, you know, like being productive and, and it was this mania that sailed me into my second half, my 20s. But I, I wasn't really able to connect with my body, to people. And I've only found that in the later part of my 20s, actually, really up until turning 30, where now the friendships I have, the relationships I'm in, they are based around a heartfelt connection. My heart is open, but, you know, for a long time I couldn't even feel my toes. And I only realized that when I could feel them, which was literally at like 28. I'd just been on this wave, you know, so, yeah, it was, it was super fun, a super hedonistic, you know, irresponsible and misguided, you know, and I didn't have an understanding of my own energy. I was certainly searching for validation externally. 100% didn't have my, my forwardness and, and social mobility was like, definitely informed by like, quite cripplingly low self esteem. But it's hard to identify that because I'm the, you know, and then people, some people might even think I'm good looking and I would, and I'd be like, all right. But did I really believe it in myself? I. I can say, I think from my own introspection, know, and actually since I did start to believe that in myself, that my beauty was from a deeper place than how people who I didn't even respect perceived me, now suddenly my life is, is better.

[Jamie Laing]

Love that, man. Well said, dude.

[Jordan Stevens]

That was well said.

[Jamie Laing]

That was well said, man. I like that.

[Jemima]

And then loads of drugs, though.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How are you saying you have your family, you have your partner. Yeah, you know, that's amazing. And Jordan, you have, have your partner who's also a superstar.

[Jemima]

Yeah, massively.

[Jamie Laing]

Massively, dude. And, and you mentioned that she's the only person that you've really connected really.

[Jemima]

Properly on the level that you are, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. That's the most open my heart's been. I had a real understanding of what I wanted from love, which I didn't know for a long time. And she's more than capable of providing that. Yeah. And it. I literally. Dude, in lockdown, I literally wrote a list of what I was looking for, what I wanted. I tried to manifest this. I don't know if you're into manifesting whatever. I take everything with a pinch of salt. But, dude, I could show you this list. It's Jade. You know what I mean? And then she just popped up. Yeah, man. Seriously, like, listen, when I met jj, like, I wasn't. I hadn't been out of a. My past relationship for that long. So when I was chatting to her, it was. It was an ego driven thing. I was. I've always talked about how much I love little mix. I couldn't believe that, like, we had a mutual friend, me and Jade. And so when I'm chatting to her, I was like, boys, I'm chatting to one a little bit. And then like a couple of weeks went past and I'm there going like, damn. She's like. She's funny. She's. She's interesting. I hadn't met her at this point. This was, you know, because it was at the end of lockdown. But then, you know, I was like. I remember thinking, like, I said, I think I need to meet her because we're talking a lot, actually, and I don't want to get into like a thing where, you know, I was thinking I'd be this kind of available. And then I met her and I was just like, what? I'm not gonna waste any time here because, you know, well, what am I gonna do? Like, pretend this isn't a vibe for like a few months. Just for my own.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you believe in marriage?

[Jemima]

Yeah, But I guess I believe in it existentially. Yeah. I don't know enough about. As an institution. I wasn't raised to believe in. In it being an important aspect of a relationship, but saying that I've been to a lot of weddings recently enough. I like the idea of people coming together to celebrate love. Conceptually, is just fucking brilliant.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

And I love that.

[Jordan Stevens]

When did you get married?

[Jamie Laing]

Last year.

[Jemima]

Did you do it like your own way? A little bit.

[Jamie Laing]

I did it my way, not my wife's way. And that was a big sa. She really didn't like it. Yeah, she had a really Tough time with anxiety leading up.

[Jemima]

How have you done it with the names and that? Just take your name.

[Jamie Laing]

I, we have, we haven't. I think, I think she's going to probably take my name, but that's cuz she wants to. But I win. I don't mind whatever she wants.

[Jemima]

That's what I mean. While I was hesitant about the, my immediate reaction is just because again, a celebration of love and potential tax relief, brilliant. But the, the, the, the religious, there's some religious.

[Jamie Laing]

I, I know what you're saying.

[Jemima]

Yeah. The twist on it where I'm like, like me and Harley went to a wedding once where the father of the bride joked about like where his sheep were because he was like, that's part of the exchange. You've got my daughter. Where are my sheep? That's. Those are the original vows, if you want to look into them. So the idea of like a father giving their daughter away. Yeah, that kind of, I'm like, nah, I'm not asking for permission. And well, actually I shouldn't say that, but it's just like I just that like I believe in just in just celebrating love.

[Jamie Laing]

Can you, can you say for the listeners who Jade is, She's actually Jade now.

[Jemima]

I'm on him, bro. That's that solo shit. Let's go.

[Jamie Laing]

Just straight up Jade. But Jay was in the band. Little mix. Big, huge little mix. Huge band. Global success.

[Jemima]

Yeah. Look, what can I say about it that I haven't already said about with Jade. I think for me and I think Harley, we can definitely back this up. Like she's 100% a superstar and that's brilliant. But those two weeks I'm talking about where I'm suddenly like, whoa, this is different. Is she has this really grounded, unaffected spirit that you wouldn't know. Do you know what I'm trying to say? You wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't meet her and be like, realize that she.

[Jordan Stevens]

Would, you wouldn't think she was one.

[Jemima]

Of the big superstars.

[Jamie Laing]

Guys, it's the greatest thing in the world when you meet someone and the unexpected happens. You go, what? What?

[Jemima]

Yeah, yeah, she and she and it's, yes, it's a beautiful trait of hers. And also I fuck love how successful she is.

[Jamie Laing]

I, I good on you, man.

[Jemima]

It's great. I didn't interview the other day and sometimes I say some like, you know, I can be a little off on tangents and sometimes interviewers like specifically transcribe what I've said and I kid you not, I read an interview the other day where someone said, like, asked me how I feel about Jade's success being that she's a woman. And I went, well, I know that some people find that intimidating, but I find it very hot and relaxing.

[Jamie Laing]

And I was like, like a sauna, like a bath. Didn't I say that going out with.

[Jemima]

Jane is like being in a bath? Hey, listen, I'm here for it.

[Jamie Laing]

Do you know what I find about you guys, which, do you know what really stands out about you both, which is amazing, is the love and respect you have for each other. And, and I, I think you see it in bands, you see it in TV shows, you see it in relationships. And let's talk about the son of respect, right? And the, the fact that the success feels like you guys just had this level of respect for each other, that even though, Jordan, you were maybe more of the hype man, you actually, you know, how you fell into the role of, like, quite liking being backstage, for sure. But that's amazing. And that really shines through, guys. It's, it's, it's. And this is why there's new music coming. And I swear to God, I want people when I do. I, I swear to God, I'm not lying when I say this. I swear to you, I'm looking in the eyes. I swear to God. God, I. Now go on the Rizzle kicks. TikTok.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

To see you guys dancing, we're doing.

[Jemima]

That at gunpoint, bro. It's so good.

[Jordan Stevens]

It's.

[Jamie Laing]

I don't know what about your rhythm or the vibe. Like, there's something within, just.

[Jemima]

Dude, I just think we're, it's so, it's.

[Jamie Laing]

I, I, I can't express more how, how good is.

[Jemima]

I definitely think there's, there's. We feel less pressure this time just because, like I say, our values in life. I can't speak on Bhari, but just from seeing Harley's life choices, our values have shift and we're very much, you know, Harley has had this experience of having two children and feeling that shift of priority, of value, like the, a desire of wanting to give love constantly and provide and be there and be present, you know, so slightly less affected by the fact that we have to do 100 TikToks a day.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah. That is wild, man.

[Jamie Laing]

I like it.

[Jordan Stevens]

It's good.

[Jemima]

You're really fucking good at it.

[Jordan Stevens]

I don't have any. Any.

[Jamie Laing]

You're nothing.

[Jordan Stevens]

I'm on nothing, bro. So this is wild to me when, like, when we have to turn up and she's like, we got to do this thing. It's like a trend or whatever. I'm like, why do people like that?

[Jemima]

Like they tried to make a video about Hippo the other day, bro. It's crazy.

[Jamie Laing]

I can ask you do a Tik Tok after this and I can't wait. Honestly, I can't wait.

[Jordan Stevens]

I mean, look, I don't like that look. I don't mind doing those content days. I'm just, it just blows, blows my mind.

[Jemima]

I actually love tik Tok but I watch conspiracy videos.

[Jamie Laing]

The great thing about soul mates, they don't have to be lovers. They can be friends.

[Jemima]

100 man.

[Jamie Laing]

And you guys, I think personify that in a beautiful way. You really do.

[Jemima]

100. We got some funny ass videos of us when we're like 18 years old, man. Just like filming ourselves being like absolute blancos. It's great. We'll use it once for the dock, you know, whatever.

[Jamie Laing]

Guys, honestly, I just want to say I really appreciate you guys coming on and your music's going to be. I imagine you're thinking about a tour and things.

[Jemima]

Yeah, We've got some shows coming up.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

Grace's mom are going to be front row icon. Yes.

[Jemima]

Great. We'd love that. Yeah.

[Jordan Stevens]

Just come whenever. Just let us know.

[Jamie Laing]

Guys. Everyone loves you and the fact that you're back for some reason, it's a.

[Jemima]

Real lift in like inflation has actually dropped by 2%.2%.

[Jamie Laing]

There we go.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

You, you guys, respect you guys. Just quickly, you have got your book out.

[Jemima]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

And, and I know that your, your mind is incredible. And so I haven't read it yet. I haven't even got. I haven't got a signed copy yet.

[Jemima]

You can get, you can also listen to it. You know, a lot of people, people who struggle to read can. I've been listening to it and you're.

[Jamie Laing]

Saying I struggle to read.

[Jemima]

Do you struggle to read?

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, I do.

[Jemima]

I've actually put the way.

[Jordan Stevens]

But I think, I think the way it's written. Will, as someone who's potentially got ADHD yourself. Yeah, it will. Because for me, for me, when I read it I thought it was really. I found it like sometimes a little bit jarring because it's, it's because I'm someone who's like very calm, doesn't have ad. And it's written by someone who very.

[Jemima]

Clearly has a. I don't like commas basically.

[Jordan Stevens]

Okay, good.

[Jemima]

So I just, it's like full stop, full stop, full stop.

[Jordan Stevens]

It's just like loads of little sentences, but you can't. You can't put it down. You can't like, stop that. You know what I mean? It's not just like, oh, that's the end of the sentence. It's like four sentences in one sentence.

[Jemima]

Yeah, but like, it's just like. It's just grammatically incorrect, basically. But.

[Jamie Laing]

And it's avoidance, drugs, heartbreak indoors.

[Jemima]

Yes. And. But the number one bit of feedback that we've seen, which is amazing, like, across wherever people can give feedback, is that a lot of people I don't use usually read, but I've read this, which I love, so it's great.

[Jamie Laing]

And you know what? Your music as well as optimistic and the world needs that.

[Jemima]

The album is that look. We definitely are bringing through like a. An energy that is reflective of. Of something a bit more lifted. We talk about these values. We talk about the, like, nature, like, we talk about, like, our biggest flex.

[Jordan Stevens]

Is how much water we drink.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, that's it.

[Jemima]

That's a big flex. We talk about love a lot. We talk about love, which I. I.

[Jordan Stevens]

Think love for love and love. I think for a lot of. A lot of, like, people like, like men in. In this industry and for. For. For younger men, there's not enough men who. Who celebrate being in love with one person.

[Jemima]

Except see people who start podcasts with their.

[Jamie Laing]

They're their wives. And you have to.

[Jordan Stevens]

Because, you know, you see a lot of it is just like, I've got this person. I got that. And. And I think, you know, it. It feeds into this whole. Like, I don't. But, like, I think more men need to celebrate how amazing it is to actually be in love.

[Jemima]

Yeah. Connection.

[Jamie Laing]

I believe personal opinion is that being in love with one person is more magical than you can possibly have. It's the best. Guys, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for doing this. We have five questions that we normally end with a bit more, but we're going to do five because there's two of you. So be as honest and as quick as you want to. It's quick fire.

[Jemima]

I mean, you should encourage me to be quicker.

[Jamie Laing]

Okay.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What saying or phrase? Phrase Always makes you smile or cheers you up?

[Jordan Stevens]

Harley, I love you.

[Jemima]

That's too wholesome, man.

[Jordan Stevens]

But from. From my. Yeah, yeah.

[Jemima]

Family.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah.

[Jemima]

Not from. Not from like someone standing across the road.

[Jordan Stevens]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jemima]

And Jay calls me a daft cunt a lot. That's quite funny. That always cheers me up.

[Jamie Laing]

I like it. Jon, what scares you most about yourself?

[Jemima]

Me. That was deep. I Definitely have, like, a. A rooted kind of lack of self worth, which I try and, you know, nurture. So I don't want to fall back into that love that man.

[Jordan Stevens]

Honey, I don't know. I've got bad knees.

[Jamie Laing]

Good one. All right. I like how you went deep, and then right now you're just like, when was the last time you cried? And why?

[Jordan Stevens]

Brother, I cried. And I never cry at this kind of thing. I'm actually not a massive crier, believe it or not.

[Jemima]

Are you not? Yeah, you are.

[Jordan Stevens]

I go through. I go through. Like, you're always talking about crying, man, I love crying. I've nothing against that, but I, I. It takes a lot for me to cry, but I've not been, like, in an anxious, depressive hole for a while.

[Jemima]

That's not why you cry these days. You cry out.

[Jordan Stevens]

I'll tell you what I cried out the other day. What's it called? Straight Guy. Queer Eye for a Straight Guy.

[Jamie Laing]

Really?

[Jemima]

It's a new series of that.

[Jordan Stevens]

I don't know. I just. I've never watched it. I've never watched it before. And I'm. And my partner said, I think you'll this show because we got into watching, like, mad wholesome stuff. And I was like, yeah, okay, I'll give it. Give it a go. Watch one episode. Unbelievable. I was sobbing. I was weeping.

[Jemima]

Wow.

[Jamie Laing]

What are you.

[Jemima]

Oh. Watching Iron Claw. I was on the edge for a lot of the end part of the film. The second they show the real person gone. Bus.

[Jamie Laing]

It's a good movie. I only watched half of it was good.

[Jemima]

Same thing happened to me with Hidden Figures. Same thing happened with Lion. Like, it's the second I see the real person gone. Like, once it was I watched lion on a plan. I had to go into the bathroom because I was audibly sobbing. Like, it was. I was just like, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

What turns you on?

[Jemima]

Debate.

[Jordan Stevens]

Candy. Kittens. Intelligence.

[Jamie Laing]

What turns you on?

[Jemima]

Curiosity.

[Jamie Laing]

Good one. What turns you off?

[Jemima]

Ing with your mouth open?

[Jamie Laing]

Last one, because we had a real wholesome episode, and I loved it, man. What do you like most about yourself?

[Jordan Stevens]

The fact that I'm a good dad.

[Jamie Laing]

A. Yeah, Jen.

[Jordan Stevens]

And my right foot when I'm playing footy.

[Jemima]

I don't know.

[Jamie Laing]

Yeah, you do. Come on. Come on. Dig deep.

[Jemima]

I'm like. I'm like, very encouraging.

[Jamie Laing]

You found that hard to say?

[Jemima]

No, but I like it. I get a real joy out of, like.

[Jamie Laing]

You are encouraging. You're a hype man in the best way.

[Jemima]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Laing]

I love that last one. Favorite Swear word.

[Jordan Stevens]

Hundred percent.

[Jemima]

Because it's like so cunt for some.

[Jordan Stevens]

Reason has turned like. Actually, it's actually a really horrible word, but it's actually.

[Jemima]

The root of it isn't, but I actually is not.

[Jordan Stevens]

For some reason. It's like kind of Tourette's. If I do something wrong, I just. I'm not gonna say the phrase, but it involves that word in it. Like, and. And I remember seeing a funny tweet once which was like, definitely say the phrase.

[Jemima]

Because it's so dynamic.

[Jordan Stevens]

It's really weird. It's like a Tourette's thing. That's it.

[Jemima]

Say it.

[Jordan Stevens]

Cunt wagon. I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know. I don't know why, but I.

[Jemima]

Where did you get that from, brother?

[Jordan Stevens]

I don't know, but I. I guess.

[Jemima]

You'Re just kind of attached.

[Jordan Stevens]

My friend saw a tweet once, was like, I just tackled that guy from Rizzle Kicks and he called me a cunt wagon.

[Jamie Laing]

Guys, I want to say a big thank you for being so open today. I know that's difficult sometimes. I really appreciate it. You have the best energy, your music is amazing, and thank the world that Rizzle Kicks is back you gu a little bit. Appreciate it.

[Jemima]

Thank you.

[Jamie Laing]

Wow. What? That was amazing.

[Stephanie]

That was fantastic.

[Jamie Laing]

I love that.

[Stephanie]

I love that. I could have listened to that for hours.

[Jamie Laing]

When you. When we finish an episode, do you think, oh, how are you going to edit it?

[Stephanie]

Yeah, sometimes, but I less so now. I think I did to begin with, but I just. I kind of quite in the. Quite in the moment, to be honest. I'm concentrating a lot, so there are occasional bits where people are talking where I know I can take a brain breather. A brain breather.

[Jemima]

A brain breather.

[Stephanie]

A brain breather. Because I'm like, this ain't going in the show. Say, just.

[Jamie Laing]

I can't.

[Stephanie]

Like, sometimes when you just talk about things that I think are boring, I'll be like, brain breather.

[Jamie Laing]

I love that. But that. Any brain breathers throughout that one?

[Stephanie]

No, I don't think so.

[Jamie Laing]

Good. That's good. Hey, I'm pleased with that. Well, thank you. Thank you for that.

[Stephanie]

I really, really enjoyed that. Sometimes you go and you're like, that's going to be hard to cut down, which I think that one be okay.

[Jamie Laing]

Good. Well, I'm glad. Hey, listen, if you enjoyed this episode and you haven't already, please subscribe yes to this show. Click that button. Because it really makes a huge difference to us. It means we can get bigger guests and it means we can keep making a great show and we can keep paying for Jemima to keep making this show with us. Please, please do it. And also get in touch great [e-mail] or you can slide into our DMS at great company podcast. Ask us anything we want to hear from you guys. So if you have any questions about the show, please let us know. And hey, we're going to see you next week week, aren't we? We are for another episode of Great Company.

[Harley]

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[Brittany]

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[Jordan Stevens]

Did you know that two out of three listeners say podcasts are the best way to learn about the things they care about most. That makes podcasts the perfect place to introduce your brand where ads are more relevant and trusted than any other media channel. Want to learn more? Download the full podcast pulse2024. Report now at podcastpulse2024acars.com and see how you can make your brand part of the conversation.