Guest Sharing Personal Story (2:53)

10.

Jamie Lang (2:54)

Really?

Guest Sharing Personal Story (2:54)

Yeah, 10. Quite difficult to process at that age. Death, you know, difficult thing for anyone to lose a loved one.

Jamie Lang (3:02)

But what was your relationship like?

Guest Sharing Personal Story (3:05)

He was my hero. I kind of, I loved him dearly but obviously it was, he was in his mid-20s or you know, coming into his mid-20s. 22 when I was 10. So, you know, huge age difference. It's not like, you know, we're outside playing sports together or so socializing together in the same circles or anything. He was very much. My dad would work a lot when I was younger so he was, he was away a lot of the time. Like I don't, I don't remember too much about my dad being at home with us. So Mike was, was there because James was away racing a lot. He was a professional racing driver. That's your older brother? Yeah. And so I was with Mike a lot. You know, Mike and I would, would play video games together, we'd play hide and seek together. You know, we, we were, we were pals, you know and he would look after me and I would always feel that, oh, that's nice. And I would always feel.

Jamie Lang (3:50)

So this is a picture of your bro.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (3:51)

He made me feel safe and he made me feel loved and you know, so did, so did my mum obviously, you know, but to me he was, he was everything to me as a, as I wanted to be just like him really. Yeah. You know, he was a great influence on me at a young age because.

Jamie Lang (4:09)

If so it's your hero, right? And when he, he goes up on Everest and he doesn't come home and how is that even like articulated to you at the time? How do you, what happened? How do you even find out at 10 years old?

Guest Sharing Personal Story (4:24)

Language. Language was used with me. That was accurate but that I didn't, that made it harder for me to understand.

Jamie Lang (4:31)

So explain.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (4:32)

It wasn't definite. It would be definite to an adult but not to a kid. So I came up to my parents room.

Jamie Lang (4:40)

Do you remember it?

Guest Sharing Personal Story (4:41)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was in, I was in, we were in the Caribbean at the time and my mum asked me to come up to their room and they said Michael is lost on the mountain. And to a 10 year old I was kind of like, well I don't understand what you mean, you know, surely. Okay, well he'll, he'll be found. It's fine. You know, it was lost, you know, to an adult or anyone that knows anything about Everest. If you're missing on Everest, your Chance of survival is. Is slim. You know, it would be near 0% to survive the night and then be found. Has happened, but it's. It's pretty rare. You'd need to be incredibly lucky. And Michael wasn't. Wasn't lucky. We never found his body. But it was.

Jamie Lang (5:30)

It was.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (5:30)

It was just difficult to comprehend as a kid. It didn't affect me at all for a little while because.

Jamie Lang (5:35)

What do you mean spen. How can it not affect you?

Guest Sharing Personal Story (5:37)

Because. Assumed that he was gonna come back. Yeah, for me, he was alive and well, so I couldn't really understand why my parents were crying. I couldn't understand why.

Jamie Lang (5:45)

Did you see your parents cry?

Guest Sharing Personal Story (5:46)

Yeah. Oh, I couldn't. I. But I couldn't understand that. To me, it was kind of like. But Mike is. He's super strong. He's super fast. He climbed Aconcagua, like, better than anyone else on. On, you know, at the age of 19. He's fit, he's strong, he's, you know, so to me, it was kind of like, this is all a big mistake and the phone's gonna ring and, oh, Mike's. You know, Mike went down with that. You know, you're a kid, you. You kind of fantasize about things that aren't possible.

Jamie Lang (6:12)

When did you understand that he wasn't going back?

Guest Sharing Personal Story (6:15)

Well, even at his memorial service months later, there was no body there, so. Because, you know, we weren't able to recover his body. So even then I had thoughts that he'd gone down into Nepal and was living in Nepal. And I was thinking, you know, maybe. Maybe one day he'll. He'll come home. And maybe. But then I couldn't quite figure out why he would want to do that to us. And then obviously, you begin to process the, you know, maybe. Maybe I won't ever see him again. But it took me ages to realize that that was a reality. Like, it never. It never hit me in the way that it would have hit James. You know, James would have heard, he's lost on the mountain. James would have gone, he's dead. And from that point on, you begin to process the fact that you've lost your brother. Whereas in many ways you're happy that you're a. You're a child in that instance, because you don't. You don't get the gut wrenching pain.

Jamie Lang (7:10)

We both thought that. That being on a show and being in that period would give us everything that we wanted, but in fact, it took everything away.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (7:17)

Yeah, I think that's fair. And also just the, the general. You know, just when you lose. When you lose someone close to you very young, I think it's, you know, it's. Firstly, we've established that it's hard to process, but it also makes everything else seem like it's not a problem. So I develop this very blunt nature of, like, if you had a problem, I wouldn't give a shit about your problem because it's not as big as my problem, you know, and it's kind of like it's this strange thing where almost nothing matters. It's a strange thing where almost nothing matters. And, you know, like, subconsciously, after a few drinks, it's kind of like, oh, how do you feel about, you know, the binky situation? Well, I don't give a fuck about the binky situation because my brother died. You know, it's. It's always there type thing. The binky situation is pointless and it's tiny and it's irrelevant.

Jonathan Fields (8:17)

Right.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (8:17)

Because I lost my brother. You know, so there's bits of that that are always kind of there when you're a bit drunk.

Jamie Lang (8:26)

That's very honest.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (8:27)

Well, yeah, but. But also it makes you.

Jamie Lang (8:30)

Yeah, but that's. I've never heard you say that ever.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (8:32)

Well, yeah, I don't think I've. I have said it before. It gives you. It gives you a lack of empathy as well. So I, I am. I do have empathy, but I'm not. It's not easily accessible because you're.

Jamie Lang (8:43)

Because your brother died.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (8:45)

I think it was so awful, the.

Jamie Lang (8:48)

Fact that you've broken up with someone. I don't care.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (8:50)

Because it's irrelevant.

Jamie Lang (8:51)

It's irrelevant.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (8:52)

Who could care less? Yeah, like, you know, it doesn't. This doesn't affect anyone, you know, so what? Wow.

Jamie Lang (8:56)

Because, you know, something like that affects.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (8:59)

You know, just, just. That's just a kind of thought that I just had that, you know, I. I think you can make a lot of sense. You can associate a lack of empathy with all kinds of stuff or lack of sympathy, a lack of empathy. But. But I think that. I think that when you have gone through something really turbulent as a kid that you struggle to process for your entire childhood.

Jamie Lang (9:17)

Yes.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (9:17)

Almost everything else feel like your business goes bust. So what? This is, you know, my family. My family is still alive. Yes.

Jamie Lang (9:24)

This is exactly 100, which I think that's exactly it. This is it. This is what I was saying at the beginning, that I think because that happened to you at such young age, such a catastrophic disaster, that after that you're just like, well, that doesn't matter compared to what happened.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (9:39)

And I'm also not, I'm not chucking our friendship into that category. But when you come at it from that angle, it's kind of like, you know, to your point, imagine telling Theodore that there's a loss in the family or something or, or you know, heaven forbid you lose a child. You know, that happened to my parents. Right. They lost one of their sons. And so I'm assuming that nothing could ever be as bad as that ever again in life. Right. So you lose a friend along the way. I'm not sure it's going to feel like it matters very much. You know, that's kind of spend.

Jamie Lang (10:09)

That's it. That's exactly it. Of course. And I, I can't believe I didn't even put one on one together like that is of course it. Because no wonder you were so blase about so many things. Because it doesn matter because I lost my brother.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (10:20)

Well, it didn't matter to me.

Jamie Lang (10:21)

No.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (10:22)

And you know, if you think I'm a prick because of that, then so what if something happened that, so that, that there was a lot of that in my teenage years. You've really upset this person. I don't care, you know, that kind of hard nosed like I'm just gonna do my thing and if it bothers you, I couldn't care less. Is something that I have moved through.

Jamie Lang (10:43)

Now because I think now because I'm just thinking if I lost man, if I. If I lost Sophie, I wouldn't care about anything. I just wouldn't.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (10:53)

I wouldn't, wouldn't care potentially ever again.

Jamie Lang (10:57)

No, I don't think I would. I don't. I would.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (11:00)

I'm not, by the way, I'm not trying to find some blanket reason for having behaved the way I behaved in Maiden Chelsea and stuff. I'm just, I'm just drawing attention to the fact that as a young man that was an easy. That was at the forefront of a lot of thoughts. It's like, oh, you know, it, it made it. And, and you know, I spoke to a therapist once about the turbulent drinking, the nature of my drinking. Right. Because at one point it was very.

Jamie Lang (11:26)

How bad was it as hard and heavy. How bad was what.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (11:29)

What day do you, what day do.

Jamie Lang (11:31)

You remember when even you went, this is bad. When it came to drinking, it got.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (11:37)

To a point where I began in the first time, for the first time in my life to. To kind of black out a bit. Like I wouldn't know where I was. Like I'd come to, I'd come to and I'd be like, just in some bar somewhere and I like with people and like sometimes I'd be like, I don't know who that person is. Like, like, you know, like so I, I, so I wouldn't be sure how I'd got to the place that I'm in. That probably only happened like two or three times in my life.

Jamie Lang (12:03)

Scary.

Guest Sharing Personal Story (12:04)

But it happens, it happened towards the very end of my alcohol abuse. And there were times when, you know, I think I've told you this before, I would drink quite early in the morning. Like you know, if I could walk past the liquor cabinet and there was nobody looking or nobody around, I might have a sneaky shot of tequila or something at, you know, 9:00am and then I'd go about my day and I'd lie to myself about stuff, you know, so you know, even sometimes Vogue would say like have you, have you had a drink today? And I'd just be like, no. You know, and all of a sudden you've got this, you're lying to the person that you love the most in the world and it creates this slight, albeit slight lack of trust. And all of a sudden you're living this like little lie and you know that it's wrong because you know you shouldn't be drinking spirits in the morning. And, and then it begins to have an effect on your self worth. Right? Over time, when you compound behavior like that over a long period of time, you start to feel quite worthless because you, you give yourself excuses to do it because you just go, well, you know, I haven't got much on today or you know, oh, this is a, this isn't a busy time of the year for, for me and it doesn't really matter if I make it to this meeting or not, you know, and you start to take corners and you start to do less. And for me that's like, that's real like the house is burning down mentality and stuff. You know, I, I, I'm a million miles from there now and you know, I'm really thankful that I was able to, to achieve that.

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