Green & Red Podcast: “In Our Future We Are Free” – Tracks the Decline of Youth Prisons w/ Nell Bernstein

Episode: #451 | December 22, 2025
Hosts: Bob Buzzanco & Scott Parkin
Guest: Nell Bernstein, journalist and author of In Our Future We Are Free

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the dramatic, largely unnoticed decline in youth incarceration in the United States over the past two decades, guided by Nell Bernstein's investigative book In Our Future We Are Free. Hosts Bob Buzzanco and Scott Parkin engage Bernstein to discuss the movement led by impacted youth, their families, and advocates that slashed the population of incarcerated youth, exposed abuses inside these institutions, and now faces political backlash. The conversation traces the arc from tough-on-crime 1990s policy, to organizing victories, to contemporary challenges in keeping and deepening those gains.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Decline of Youth Incarceration

• Historic Drop in Numbers: Incarcerated youth dropped from 108,800 in the year 2000 to 27,600 by 2022—a decrease of over 75%.
  • “We've seen this sort of stunning reduction... by 75%, which just blew me away.” — Bob (01:38)
  • “At least two-thirds of the youth jails and prisons in this country have closed down for good. So it is stunning.” — Nell Bernstein (02:59)
• Contributing Factors: The drop is attributed to both a 75% decline in youth crime and the result of multifaceted grassroots movements led by impacted young people, parents, advocates, lawyers, and some system insiders.
  • “There's also been a really powerful multifaceted movement on the part of currently and formerly incarcerated young people... lawyers, philanthropy, even some system leaders, to move us away from a really destructive practice...” — Nell (03:33)
• Parallel Decline in Adult System: The theory is posed that declining youth incarceration directly impacts future drops in adult incarceration.
  • “Youth incarceration leads to adult incarceration... as the adult system catches up with this decline, we're going to see even more significant drops.” — Nell (18:59)

What Youth Prisons Are—And Who They Hold

• Definitions and Euphemisms: Youth prisons are rebranded through terms like “training schools,” “academies,” and “boys camps,” but functionally mirror adult prisons and jails.
  • “I talk about youth jails and prisons because I've denied a lot of them and that's what they are.” — Nell (04:26)
• Age Range & Entry: Most are under 18 at the time of offense; in some states, children as young as six can be incarcerated, and many can be held until 21-25.
  • “In at least little over half the states, there's no floor. And that's where you see six-year-olds hauled out of classrooms in handcuffs.” — Nell (05:11)
• Nature of Offenses: The system historically incarcerates youth for both low-level (truancy, shoplifting) and serious (homicide, assault) offenses, with a majority previously for minor misbehavior.
  • “The vast majority of kids inside them were there for low or very low level offenses. Things like truancy, shoplifting.” — Nell (06:29)
• Racial Targeting: Black youths are five times more likely than white youths to be incarcerated, even more so for drug offenses.
  • “The drug war... became a mechanism for discretionary enforcement... for further racism.” — Nell (07:12)

Genesis of the Organizing Movement

• Origins: Early movement sparked by letters from youths inside solitary units, especially after abuses documented by lawyer Sue Burrell.
  • “Dozens of letters from kids who had somehow collaborated on this campaign, even though they were in around-the-clock solitary confinement...” — Nell (08:28)
• Tactics & Courage: Youths coordinated evidence and invoked legal protections even under brutal conditions.
  • “One young man had written down not just the name but the serial number of the grenade that had been thrown into his cell...” — Nell (10:00)
• Parental Organizing: Groups like Books Not Bars formed, leveraging personal narrative and direct action to force media and legislative attention.
  • “Parents did not allow their children to be invisible. They insisted again and again on their children’s humanity.” — Nell (31:30)
  • “Each time a child died in one of the institutions... they would come together... hold a candlelight vigil outside the capitol.” — Nell (32:08)

The Myth of Rehabilitation & Economics of Closure

• Rehabilitation as a Myth: Research shows incarceration is criminogenic—increases future crime—and does not rehabilitate.
  • “Locking a kid up not only fails to enhance public safety or rehabilitate... it is actively criminogenic.” — Nell (13:03)
• Financial Logic: Declining numbers raised per capita costs to over $1 million/year in some locales, making fiscal arguments more palatable for political moves to close.
  • “Advocates could... just say this is a huge waste of taxpayer money. That's a much more palatable argument for politicians...” — Nell (14:43)

Backlash & Political Whiplash

• Super Predator Rhetoric Returns: Politicians now resurrect 1990s-era “super predator” language, pushing legislation to charge children as adults.
  • “Whenever you hear young people talked about in that collective kind of language, you know your ears should prick up, because that's super predator talk.” — Nell (21:31)
• Systemic Reaction: Multiple states, including D.C. and California, pass or contemplate laws easing transfer to adult courts.
  • “They passed a law allowing 14 and 15 year olds to be tried as adults in D.C.... here in California... a new crop of district attorneys... are avidly returning to the practice...” — Nell (21:36)
• Counter-Strategy: Facilities are physically closed, some sold off and repurposed, making rollbacks harder.
  • “It becomes much more difficult to go backwards when you don't have those beds ready and waiting... repurposed as things like condo communities...” — Nell (22:51)

Lessons from the Youth Justice Movement

• Narrative & Visibility: Making the harm and humanity visible was central to success—media coverage, hearings, personal stories.
  • “They insisted again and again on their children's humanity... it becomes a little harder for that child to be an abstraction.” — Nell (31:35)
• Coalitions & Leadership: Impacted youth and parents allied with legal advocates, shaped policy, and now see former youth leaders running non-profits, foundations, even serving in Congress.
  • “People... who were just as involved as teenagers 25 years ago, are now leading philanthropy, practicing medicine, running nonprofits, serving in Congress.” — Nell (36:28)
• Natural Growth, Strategic Support: National organizations (e.g. Annie E. Casey Foundation, Youth First) provided technical support; local/state movements learned from each other and adapted tactics.
  • “This is a movement that bubbled up from the... local and state level just because, again, that's where criminal justice lives.” — Nell (46:15)
• Books Not Bars Slogan: Bridged issues by connecting prison spending to lack of educational opportunity.
  • “The money we were spending on prisons... is causing your child’s school to be under resourced. That was just a brilliant rhetorical move.” — Nell (48:02)

Public Perception, Neuroscience & Lasting Change

• The Power of Story: Personal narratives—like family impact or stories from ICE detentions—can shift attitudes even among those usually unmoved by systemic critiques.
  • “Those personal narratives... seeing those images and hearing their stories, I think is getting people to respond who I think normally wouldn't be.” — Bob (37:00)
• Shifts in Developmental Understanding: Neuroscience and developmental psychology now influence law and public opinion.
  • “It’s pretty well established—the adolescent brain isn’t fully developed... the science also evolved over this 25 year period.” — Nell (39:34)
• Privilege and Systemic Inequality: Race and class impact who “grows out” of misbehavior without criminal penalty.
  • “White and whose parents had resources weren’t incarcerated and could laugh about what they had done... Black, brown, and poor kids don’t get to laugh about it.” — Nell (41:06)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “We’ve seen this sort of stunning reduction in... juvenile detention centers... by 75%, which just blew me away.” — Bob (01:38)
• “As youth crime dropped... the per capita cost of incarcerating an individual child rose. In some... as high as a million dollars a year per kid.” — Nell (14:43)
• “Locking a kid up... is actively criminogenic.” — Nell (13:03)
• “The super predator is a mythical creature... cooked up in a lab in Princeton... an old racist trope.” — Nell (24:09)
• “There’s a reason we put these places in the middle of nowhere... the walls and bars and razor wire that keep the kids in, keep the rest of us out.” — Nell (31:30)
• “People... involved as teenagers 25 years ago, are now leading philanthropy... nonprofits, serving in Congress.” — Nell (36:28)
• “We would be safer if we were not engaging in this criminogenic activity.” — Nell (13:26)

Important Timestamps

• 02:24 – Dramatic stats from Bernstein’s book
• 03:33 – The interplay of crime drop and grassroots organizing
• 06:29 – What are youth incarcerated for?
• 07:12 – Racial targeting and the drug war’s impact
• 08:28 – The organizing origins: Sue Burrell’s letters
• 13:03 – Incarceration’s criminogenic effects
• 14:43 – Cost arguments driving closure
• 21:31 – The re-emergence of the “super predator” myth
• 31:30 – Books Not Bars and tactics of visibility
• 34:41 – Strategic use of fiscal arguments for closure
• 36:28 – Impacted youth as movement leaders
• 39:34 – Role of neuroscience and developmental psychology
• 41:06 – Privilege and disparities in outcomes
• 46:15 – National vs. local organizing structure

Tone and Atmosphere

• Candid, critical, but ultimately (and unexpectedly) hopeful.
• The episode balances historical critique with the celebration of grassroots victories and lived experience, all while warning against newly resurgent punitive politics.

Resources Mentioned

• In Our Future We Are Free by Nell Bernstein
• Books Not Bars (parent-organizing movement)
• Annie E. Casey Foundation Juvenile Detention Alternatives Initiative
• Youth First Initiative

Conclusion

The episode serves as both a sobering exposé of the harms and persistence of youth incarceration—and a testament to the power of organizing, narrative, and personal experience. In a time of political reaction and public fear, Bernstein’s research is a reminder that movements, especially those led by impacted people, not only win material change but can shift the culture and possibilities of justice itself.

For more, see the book “In Our Future We Are Free” and check out Green & Red’s show notes for further readings and organizations involved in youth justice reform.