Green & Red Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: November 22, 1963 . . . The myths, fables, and conspiracies of JFK after 62 years (G&R 441)
Hosts: Bob Buzzanco & Scott Parkin
Date: November 21, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

On the eve of the 62nd anniversary of John F. Kennedy’s assassination, Bob Buzzanco and Scott Parkin revisit the enduring myths, fables, and conspiracies surrounding JFK’s life and death—especially those amplified by Oliver Stone and the so-called “conspiracy industrial complex.” The hosts interrogate why the Kennedy conspiracy fascination persists, how it shapes broader leftist politics, and why focusing on such conspiracies obscures a systemic analysis of power, the Cold War, and American empire.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role and Impact of JFK Conspiracy Theories

• Conspiracies like those surrounding JFK’s assassination serve as a form of “diversion” (ref. Booz Allen report, 1998, [03:25])—distracting from structural, systemic political analysis.
• Bob emphasizes that conspiracy theories are anti-political: they focus on a few “good people” battling the “deep state,” ignoring how the Kennedy family rose within the very system they supposedly challenged ([02:03]).
• The hosts note the modern spread of conspiracies—from QAnon to Epstein—tracing much of this culture back to the fallout of the JFK assassination ([03:25], [27:53], [28:03]).

“Conspiracy theories really is, I think in a lot of ways, anti-political...What it does is it essentially posits that there are a handful of good people trying to change things and do things the right way. And they're smacked down by...the deep state.” —Bob Buzzanco, [02:03]

2. JFK's Actual Legacy: Myths vs. Facts

• Civil Rights: Kennedy’s support was tepid and frequently reluctant. He supported Joe McCarthy, appointed segregationist judges, and delayed civil rights actions for political reasons ([06:42]–[08:31]).
• Cold Warrior: Despite his image, JFK was a prototypical Cold Warrior—escalating U.S. military budgets, pushing interventionism, and ratcheting up pressure in Latin America and elsewhere ([10:27], [11:23], [16:55]).
  • Bay of Pigs, Alliance for Progress, and support for coups in Latin America and elsewhere (e.g., Brazil, Guyana, Iraq).
  • Continued subversion and sabotage of Cuba post-Missile Crisis ([13:47], [16:55]).

“There’s no evidence of Kennedy having a change of mind or anything like that...Kennedy fully believed in the exercise of American power.”
—Bob Buzzanco, [20:10]

3. The Oliver Stone Effect & The “Conspiracy Industrial Complex”

• Stone’s JFK and its associated “assassinologists” (e.g., Jefferson Morley) have created a cottage industry of revisionist narratives, often embraced by left-progressive media outlets ([25:53]–[29:41]).
• Stone et al. claim JFK was killed for trying to withdraw from Vietnam, dismantle the CIA, and end the Cold War. The hosts debunk this, arguing it is based on selective reading, anecdote, and wishful thinking.

“This is the foundation conspiracy...One of the roots of this is this conspiracy, this JFK conspiracy industrial complex that's perpetuated by Oliver Stone...”
—Scott Parkin, [28:03]

4. Vietnam: The Myth and the Documentation

• The pivotal conspiracy centers on Vietnam: did JFK plan to withdraw? The hosts systematically dismantle the idea:
  • JFK ramped up U.S. involvement (advisors, weapons, chemical agents, direct operations).
  • NSAM-263 (National Security Action Memorandum 263), cited as proof of withdrawal plans, is misrepresented; withdrawals envisioned were symbolic, linked to “progress” and did not signal disengagement ([25:55], [30:33]).
  • U.S. orchestrated the coup against South Vietnamese leader Diem, fearing a negotiated settlement rather than simply responding to repression ([30:33]–[37:10]).
  • The U.S. military establishment was more skeptical of Vietnam than civilian leadership—debunking notions that militarists wanted JFK dead ([41:48]–[43:05]).
  • Public statements by JFK up to his death show unwavering support for remaining in Vietnam (e.g., interviews with Cronkite and Huntley, [37:31]).

“Withdrawal only makes it easy for the communists. I think we should stay.” —JFK (quoted by Bob Buzzanco, [38:55])

5. Hero Worship, Systemic Analysis, and the Left

• The desire for “heroes” such as JFK, AOC, or Bernie Sanders is a political dead end; transformative change comes from collective action, not parachuting saviors ([48:24]).
• Leftist media’s willingness to promote conspiracy-driven narratives is counterproductive and detaches activists from structural critique.
• New conspiracy theories—including that Israel killed JFK—emerge as older narratives lose traction, but these also have no documentary basis ([49:43]–[51:33]).

“Looking for heroes? You want to look for heroes? It’s the school kids in Charlotte. It’s the women in Chicago. It’s the local communities, the indigenous communities, the Mexican Americans in LA...But it ain’t politicians, and it was never JFK.” —Bob Buzzanco, [48:24]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Left’s Embrace of Conspiracy:
  “The reception on the left to this is really disturbing...they're taken very seriously and they're given a great deal of credibility in those. And I think that's so dangerous.”—Bob, [26:13]
• On Stone's Impact:
  “Oliver Stone being a very establishment Hollywood person, like, legitimizes these wild conspiracies even more. And that's deeply problematic for what's going on in our little d. Democracy.”—Scott, [28:03]
• Debate Challenge:
  “I'm now offering Oliver Stone $200 to debate. Right? You can. No holds barred. Don’t worry about it.”—Bob, [29:41]
• On the Military and Vietnam:
  “The military was far more dovish on Vietnam than any of the civilians were.”—Bob, [41:48]
• On Policy vs. Anecdote:
  “Anecdotes and even oral histories...aren’t really going to tell you much of the story...They might, they're useful...But they're not documents. They aren't the same as what's actually happening.”—Bob, [44:18]
• On Killing a President:
  “Killing a president isn't a small thing. It's a big fucking deal. And if you're going to kill a guy, you need to have a good reason to do it.”—Bob, [45:57]
• On Hero Worship:
  “If you need heroes, it’s people of Gaza...But it ain't politicians, and it was never JFK and it never will be somebody who reaches that level.”—Bob, [48:24]

Key Timestamps

• [02:03] – Why conspiracy theories catch on and their broader role
• [06:42] – RFK and the McCarthy committee; JFK’s civil rights record
• [10:27] – JFK as Cold Warrior: Cuba, Latin America, the Bay of Pigs, and beyond
• [16:55] – Kennedy’s covert operations: coups, assassinations, the “threat of a good example”
• [20:10] – No evidence of Kennedy’s supposed turn to peace
• [25:55] – Vietnam escalation, NSAM-263, and debunking “withdrawal myth”
• [29:41] – Challenge to Oliver Stone to debate
• [30:33] – The Diem coup: context, U.S. motives, and misreading by conspiracy theorists
• [37:31] – JFK’s actual statements about staying in Vietnam (interviews with Cronkite/Huntley)
• [41:48] – The “dovish” military and why the military/CIA-wanted-JFK-dead thesis fails
• [44:18] – Doing real historical work: reading documents over anecdotes
• [48:24] – The problem with hero worship and systemic politics
• [51:33] – The “Israel killed Kennedy” conspiracy and debunking
• [56:05] – The need for real critical analysis, not conspiracy
• [57:21] – Bob & Scott’s concluding plea for historical literacy on the left

Conclusion

This episode serves as a rigorous and often passionate corrective to the myths underpinning Kennedy conspiracy lore; the hosts argue that such narratives obscure the realities of American power, undermine structural critique, and ultimately weaken the broader left. Rather than idolizing politicians or chasing elusive conspiracies, they urge listeners to focus on collective action and systemic change.

Further Reading/Resources:
Episode notes include links to Bob Buzzanco's articles and prior episodes for deeper dives into JFK, Vietnam, and debunking conspiracy.