Podcast Summary

Green & Red: Podcasts for Scrappy Radicals

Episode 443: Trump vs. Mark Kelly... War Crimes, Venezuela and Blowback
Hosts: Bob Buzzanco and Scott Parkin
Date: December 2, 2025

Overview

In this incisive episode, Bob Buzzanco and Scott Parkin delve into the interwoven crises and scandals enveloping the Trump administration’s military policy, recent alleged war crimes, and the political and human blowback stemming from decades of U.S. foreign interventions. The discussion pivots around three major current events: the war crime allegations in the Caribbean, the sharp conflict between Trump (and his Secretary of War Pete Hegseth) and elements of the U.S. military, and a tragic shooting in D.C. by an Afghan former CIA-backed operative. The hosts critically assess the implications for U.S. politics, military ethics, and the fraught history of American imperial ventures.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump, Hegseth, and Military Tensions

• Military Purge and Discontent:

  • Bob explains that over two dozen high-ranking military officials, particularly those associated with former Joint Chiefs Chair Mark Milley, have been fired since Trump and Hegseth took charge.
  • “It's very clear that Hegseth is... reviled within most quarters of the Pentagon since Trump and Hegseth have taken over...” (02:11)

• Department of War & Internal Military Resistance:

  • Recent renaming spectacles and public chiding of the military by the administration are causing “cracks” and profound unease within military circles.

• Firing of Admiral Alvin Halsey:

  • Halsey, head of Southern Command, likely removed due to misgivings about U.S. operations around Venezuela, alleged “drug war” justifications, and unauthorized violence in the Caribbean (03:10–04:10).
  • “None from—there’s no record of any fentanyl coming in from Venezuela... this is about oil and trying to get rid of Maduro.” (04:10)

• Dismissal of Naval Academy Commandant:

  • Early termination of Captain Gilbert Clark, possibly to disrupt ethical and legal military training norms.

2. The Double Tap War Crime Allegation

• Incident Details:

  • On September 2, a U.S. military boat attacked a vessel near Trinidad, and then allegedly returned to kill survivors on Hegseth’s order (“double tap”) (04:40–06:00).
  • Trump administration's tone is proudly unapologetic: “They doubled down. ‘Yeah, I did it. So what?’” (03:34).

• Context & Coverup:

  • The killings are defended instead of denied, with the administration justifying them as anti-narcotics operations—a claim both hosts ridicule as false.

• Rules of War and Accountability:

  • The show details the basic premise that soldiers must refuse illegal orders, a point underscored by a viral video from Senators Mark Kelly, Elise Slotkin, and others urging military personnel to uphold their oaths (06:52–09:26).

3. The Kelly/Slotkin Video and Trump’s Threats

• Video Contents:

  • Democratic officials issue a direct message to military personnel: “You must refuse illegal orders. No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution.” (08:56)
  • Trump’s reaction: calls for public execution, labeling their statement as “seditious conspiracy” (07:55).

• Political Fallout:

  • Threats to reactivate Mark Kelly for court martial, though hosts see this as “zero percent chance”—more political theater than imminent risk (11:30).

• Kelly’s Profile Rises:

  • Being targeted by Trump boosts Kelly’s political fortunes and fundraising, with speculation about a 2028 presidential run (12:08–12:49).
  • “Getting attacked by Trump is actually good for your political career. Right.” (12:50)

4. Congressional and Political Realignments

• Bipartisan Reactions:

  • Figures like Roger Wicker (R), Mike Turner (R), Mike Rogers (R), Jack Reed (D), Rand Paul (R), and even Marjorie Taylor Greene (R) break with Trump over the Venezuela operation and military conduct.
  • “Rand Paul, more than anybody—even more than Bernie Sanders—has been very outspoken on Trump and Venezuela and Hegseth.” (14:50)

• Republican Coalition Fraying:

  • Hosts note increasing public dissent within the GOP, especially regarding war crimes and overseas adventures (15:50–16:30).

5. Legal and Historical Rules of War

• Universal Code of Military Justice (UCMJ):

  • Discussion of how the law (and military culture) codifies refusal of illegal orders and prohibits targeting civilians or surrendering combatants (16:20).

• Historical Examples:

  • Reminders of infamous incidents from Vietnam (My Lai, Tiger Battalion, Phoenix Program), Iraq, Afghanistan, and WWII.

• Modern Realities:

  • Hosts argue the “rules of war” mean little as state actors circumvent or brush them aside, referencing recent Israeli actions and U.S. behavior (16:20–17:36).

6. Blowback and the D.C. Shooting

• Details of the Shooting:

  • Recent killing of a National Guard member in D.C. by an Afghan ex-Zero Unit squad member, once a CIA-backed child soldier now tormented by trauma and substance abuse (20:35–22:48).
  • “I can’t think of a more obvious example of blowback in recent days than what has happened with this shooting.” (21:57)

• Blowback as a Recurring Theme:

  • CIA “Zero units” in Afghanistan, U.S. legacy of creating and importing traumatized, dangerous operatives.
  • Hosts cite other recent instances of ex-U.S.-backed Afghans involved in violence in America, part of a broader pattern (24:53).

• Domestic Political Exploitation:

  • Trump and allies immediately use the incident to justify anti-immigrant measures, inflame Islamophobic rhetoric, and press for expanded military deployments in American cities (29:15).

7. Political Violence and Incitement

• Escalating Rhetoric:

  • Trump’s pattern of violent language and distraction tactics, e.g., attacking Somali Americans, mocking political opponents on personal grounds.
  • “Trump incites violence every time he opens his mouth. And that to me is, if there’s one issue here... all he has... is violence.” (33:20)

• Systemic Incompetence and Bureaucratic Leaks:

  • Discussion of leaks undermining Hegseth, Kash Patel, and Kristi Noem, revealing inner disarray in the Trump administration.

8. Broader Implications and Realignment

• Political Opportunity:

  • The hosts emphasize the lack of effective organized opposition from mainstream Democrats; real vulnerability for Trump comes from protests in the streets and cracks within the military and Republican ranks (35:58).

• Populist Cross-Currents:

  • Figures as diverse as Marjorie Taylor Greene and Zohran Mamdani evoke “America First” rhetoric with a populist (sometimes anti-imperial/left) twist—highlighting how anti-war and anti-austerity themes can unite unlikely political actors.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk. This administration is pitting our uniformed military and intelligence community professionals against American citizens like us.” – Mark Kelly & co., [08:30]
• “You must refuse illegal orders. No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution.” – Mark Kelly & co., [08:56]
• “Trump called for public execution... said they should be hanged. There should be public executions.” – Scott, [07:57]
• “Getting attacked by Trump is actually good for your political career.” – Bob, [12:50]
• “Trump's basic argument now is if the President says it, then it's not illegal. It's the old Nixon argument on steroids.” – Bob, [17:03]
• “It’s a clown car. Except they got a lot of power and they're hurting a lot of people.” – Bob, [19:02]
• “I can't think of a more obvious example of blowback in recent days than what has happened with this shooting.” – Scott, [21:57]
• “This country is getting scarier and more violent by the day.” – Bob, [29:15]
• “Trump incites violence every time he opens his mouth...” – Bob, [33:41]

Timeline & Timestamps of Core Segments

• 00:24–02:15: Introductions; Trump, Hegseth, and military infighting.
• 03:10–04:10: Venezuela, Halsey firing, and fraudulent “drug war” justifications.
• 06:55–09:26: Kelly/Slotkin video, its contents, and immediate right-wing backlash.
• 11:30–12:50: Trump’s threats of court martial and Kelly’s rising political capital.
• 14:35–15:50: Emerging bipartisan criticism and Republican fractures.
• 16:20–17:36: Rules of military justice; historic atrocity cases.
• 20:35–22:48: D.C. shooting by ex-CIA Afghan paramilitary, explained as blowback.
• 24:53–26:32: Other cases of CIA-backed foreign operatives engaging in violence in the US; historical parallels.
• 29:15–31:26: Gun violence; Trump’s responses to the D.C. shooting; further militarization.
• 33:16–34:41: Trump’s violent rhetoric analyzed.
• 35:58–38:24: Systemic opposition to Trump; anti-imperial populism crossing partisan lines.
• 38:56–41:45: Wrap-up; future shows will revisit these unfolding events.

Conclusion

This wide-ranging episode dissects the cascading crises set off by the current administration’s militaristic policies, the exposure of war crimes and extrajudicial violence, and the dangerous, inciteful rhetoric of Trump and his allies. With a blend of historical perspective and contemporary analysis, Buzzanco and Parkin stitch together the ways these threads—illegal orders, political careerism, the legacy of blowback, and shifting party alignments—all portend a volatile period for U.S. politics and society. The show maintains its signature radical, acerbic tone, calling out both governmental hypocrisy and failures of mainstream opposition.

Final Takeaway:
The empire’s violence abroad inevitably comes home, and the cracks in the military, political parties, and American society are deepening under the weight of these self-inflicted crises.