Podcast Summary: Green & Red – Trump’s Wars with Latin America w/ Prof. Aviva Chomsky (G&R 449)

Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Bob Buzzanco (C), Scott Parkin (B)
Guest: Prof. Aviva Chomsky (A), historian specializing in Latin America, labor, migration, and author of multiple influential books.

Episode Overview

This episode explores the recent intensification of U.S. aggression toward Latin America under Donald Trump, focusing particularly on Venezuela, with historical context and incisive analysis from Professor Aviva Chomsky. The conversation delves into oil politics, U.S. media narratives, “pink tide” retrenchment, immigration, the labor movement, and the bipartisan nature of U.S. imperialism in the region. Throughout, the panel connects current events to deep-seated historical patterns and structural economic factors, challenging humanitarian framings with political economy critique.

Major Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. Escalation in Venezuela: What's Different, What's Not

Timestamps: [02:26] – [06:41]

• Buzzanco asks how current U.S. aggression against Venezuela under Trump compares to previous actions, noting overt “gunboat diplomacy” and explicit acknowledgment in the New York Times of oil motivations.
• Chomsky notes the surprising candor in mainstream media attributing the aggression to oil, positing this criticism only surfaces because the press opposes Trump. She observes bipartisan imperialism:

  "We certainly don't see any anti-imperialism on the part of the Democrats when they're in power." ([03:35])

• On public awareness, she highlights students’ near-complete ignorance of Venezuela developments (in contrast to Gaza), signaling selective media penetrance.

Memorable Quote:

“There was not a single student in maybe one in my four classes who was actually aware that the United States had been bombing fishing boats off the coast of Venezuela ... they practically didn't believe me.” – Aviva Chomsky ([04:41])

2. Motivations Behind U.S. Policy: Oil, Geopolitics & Emotional Politics

Timestamps: [06:53] – [14:01]

• Chomsky critiques the reduction of U.S. motives to Trump’s family investments, situating them within broader geopolitics, the “Monroe Doctrine,” and deep-seated animus toward leftist Latin American governments.
• The Trump administration, especially via figures like Marco Rubio, displays "virulent anti-Maduro, anti-Cuban" sentiment, partly driven by a visceral hatred for the Latin American left.
• She notes a growing U.S. impunity, especially post-Gaza:

  “There's this sense of impunity right now ... any semblance of adherence to international law or international institutions [has been dispensed with]. So let's just show that we can do anything we want.” ([07:38])

• Actions like bombing fishing boats are described as a “caricature of US military power,” targeting the weakest to demonstrate strength.

3. U.S. Narratives: Drugs & “Easy” Interventions

Timestamps: [14:01] – [16:01]

• Buzzanco draws parallels between Venezuela drug allegations and past interventions (e.g., Noriega).
• Chomsky points out media and political arguments that a Venezuela intervention “will be easy, like Grenada or Panama—not like Iraq or Afghanistan.”
• She laments public desensitization:

  “There’s a kind of a numbing of the global population and the US population... Oh, we can just blast out of the world a few fishing boats. Oh, we can just take an oil tanker.” ([14:40])

• Notable legal attempt: Dan Kovalik is representing Colombian victims, suing the US government for attacks in international waters.

4. Bipartisan Imperialism & Manipulation of Democracy

Timestamps: [17:37] – [20:26]

• U.S. institutions and media show more outrage over process violations (e.g., lack of war declaration) than the substance of military aggression.
• Chomsky highlights how U.S. interference in Latin American elections is normalized, contrasting it with American outrage over alleged foreign meddling in the U.S.:

  “It’s sort of taken for granted that the United States can always interfere in elections in Latin American countries.” ([19:20])

5. The Return of the Far Right in Latin America

Timestamps: [21:11] – [26:58]

• Discussion shifts to the rollback of the “pink tide” as Argentina, Chile, and others swing rightward.
• Chomsky’s historical perspective: Latin America’s political swings are endemic—"like the weather in New England, if you don’t like it, wait five minutes."
• Governing poor, dependent countries is inherently difficult, creating cycles of high expectation and disappointment with left governments:

  “You can’t have socialism in one country. All the cards are stacked against.” ([23:15])

• Socio-political polarization in Latin America—deep class divides entrench enduring left and right wings, with a “middle 30%” swinging between them.

6. Neoliberalism, NAFTA, and Political Economy

Timestamps: [29:46] – [38:57]

• Chomsky and hosts reflect on NAFTA’s and Bretton Woods institutions’ impacts, highlighting Trump’s opportunistic anti-neoliberal rhetoric.
• Chomsky expresses discomfort at finding herself defending institutions she long opposed (e.g., USAID, free trade), since Trump’s alternative is to “replace it with something worse instead of something better.” ([31:21])
• Trade agreements were never really “free,” but always corporate-friendly; Trump exploits anti-globalization sentiment for political gain.
• Labor movement’s historic tension between economic nationalism and international solidarity is traced, referencing Dana Frank’s “Buy American.”

Memorable Quote:

“How did we find ourselves defending USAID? We’ve spent our whole careers denouncing them!” – Aviva Chomsky ([31:33])

7. Human Rights, Humanitarianism, and Depoliticization

Timestamps: [38:57] – [40:04]

• Chomsky critiques the depoliticization of human rights activism, noting how it can divert attention from structural injustice, both in Latin America and in current debates about Gaza:

  “If Gaza is presented to the world as a humanitarian issue, you can bring in a lot more liberals. But you’re kind of missing the point too ... it’s also a political issue.” ([39:35])

8. Immigration: Political Economy Over Morality

Timestamps: [40:04] – [54:22]

• Chomsky analyzes Trump-era immigration policy as a blend of criminalization, white nationalism, and political maneuvering.
• She unpacks the paradox of U.S. economic dependency on immigrant labor, even as politicians demonize immigrants:

  “The neoliberal global economy has created huge demand for immigrant workers in the wealthier countries ... and at the same time neoliberalism in places like Mexico and Central America [creates] huge new opportunities for US investors which mean displacement of rural populations.” ([46:50])

• Remittances now far exceed U.S. aid, acting as a safety valve and sustaining systems of inequality at home and abroad.
• Humanitarian framings (e.g., “kids in cages”) can obscure underlying systems of exploitation and capitalist dependence on cheap labor:

  “That’s the problem with the humanitarian and human rights approach ... you miss the political economy of what’s going on and how to actually solve it.” ([53:06])

• Ultimately, systemic change requires recognizing both the moral and structural aspects of immigration and labor policy.

9. Electoral Shifts Among U.S. Immigrant Communities

Timestamps: [54:41] – [58:27]

• Recent local election results in Miami (and New York) show shifts away from Trumpism among certain immigrant-dominated constituencies, potentially due to economic hardship and disillusionment.
• Chomsky explains how earlier, elite immigrant waves (Cuban, Venezuelan) have disproportionate political and organizational power, while newer arrivals are less represented.
• Racial and class tensions persist within immigrant communities:

  “He asked if they encountered racism in the US and they said, well, not from white people, but from the Cubans. They’re incredibly racist. They can’t stand us.” ([57:43])

Notable Quotes

• On selective media criticism:
  “The ability to say that it’s about oil, I feel just shows how much the New York Times hates Trump, because that’s not the kind of thing they usually say.” – Aviva Chomsky ([05:04])

• On left-right convergence in U.S. foreign policy:
  “When Democrats have been in power too, ... those far right isolationist types have been the ones who were against going to war in Iraq, against going to war in Afghanistan. ... Where there is no light between Democrats and Republicans.” – Aviva Chomsky ([27:23])

• On economic nationalism and labor:
  “There was a lot of economic nationalism in the labor movement and there were only small pockets that were thinking about international solidarity.” – Aviva Chomsky ([37:24])

Episode Structure & Key Timestamps

• Main topic intro and Venezuela escalation: [00:20] – [06:41]
• Media/Narrative analysis, oil motivations: [02:26] – [06:41]
• Trump admin motives, GOP politics, historical context: [06:53] – [14:01]
• Drug war, ease of intervention, public numbness: [14:01] – [16:01]
• Bipartisan imperialism, U.S. election interference: [17:37] – [20:26]
• Far right resurgence in Latin America, root causes: [21:11] – [26:58]
• Neoliberalism, NAFTA, economic drivers: [29:46] – [38:57]
• Human rights activism critiques: [38:57] – [40:04]
• Deep dive: U.S. immigration as labor and economic necessity: [40:04] – [54:22]
• Immigrant politics in U.S. elections, Miami case study: [54:41] – [58:27]

Final Thoughts

• Chomsky suggests that Trump’s unpredictability, global far-right alliances, and attack on international institutions represent both continuity and escalation of longstanding U.S. imperial practices.
• The humanitarian impulse must be tied to a broader understanding of structural and economic power if lasting change is to be achieved.
• The solutions require both political-economic analysis and moral commitment:

  “Is this the kind of world you want to have? ... We need to understand what is wrong with it in order to be able to understand how to change it.” – Aviva Chomsky ([53:41])

This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in U.S.-Latin American relations, the intersections of foreign policy, economic systems, and migration, and the enduring patterns of empire and resistance.