Ep 110. Blood Serums, Big Pharma & Big Trees: Andrew Fucarino Joins Independent Tree Service

Summary

Green Side Up, Ep 110: “Blood Serums, Big Pharma & Big Trees: Andrew Fucarino Joins Independent Tree Service”
Release Date: February 5, 2026
Hosts: Jason Lee & Jordan Upcavage
Guest: Andrew Fucarino

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Episode Overview

This episode features the unique entrepreneurial journey of Andrew Fucarino—known locally as “the duck fisherman”—from his days in the pharmaceutical compounding business to his new role as Business Development Manager at Independent Tree Service. Hosted by seasoned green industry entrepreneurs Jason Lee and Jordan Upcavage, the episode dives into family business succession, adapting to industry changes, and boldly switching careers from healthcare to the tree care and landscaping sector.

Whether you’re facing career transitions, grappling with the realities of running a small business, or seeking insight on breaking into commercial tree work, this episode is packed with raw stories, business pivots, and practical advice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Andrew Fucarino: Duck Fisherman Turned Entrepreneur

Timestamp: 01:30 – 06:10

• Andrew’s reputation as the “duck fisherman” is cemented from neighborhood lore and a passion for duck hunting and fishing.
• He jokes about not being particularly successful but cherishes the experience:

  “I can put decoys out like you’ve never seen in your life. Just nothing lands at them.” – Andrew (03:00)

• Hunting in Florida is tough, but Andrew describes the spiritual aspect of getting outdoors at sunrise.

2. Family Pharmacy Roots & The Realities of Independent Healthcare

Timestamp: 06:10 – 19:04

• Andrew’s father started their family pharmacy in Carrollwood, Tampa, in 1985, moving it from a conventional pharmacy to a compounding specialty shop to survive big chain competition and insurance squeeze.
• Andrew dissects how independent pharmacies became marginalized:

  “My dad started compounding. That was a really unique thing where you actually make medication. So it’s specialized… It became a very lucrative business. It’s all cash—there’s no insurance.” (07:14)

• Compounding required making custom meds for people and even animals (from cats to elephants), but insurance audits and big pharma regulatory hurdles made the conventional business “not worth the risk.” (09:49)
• The shift to compounding was both necessity and opportunity, especially as insurance companies’ reimbursement got worse.

3. The Science and Market of Compounding Pharmacy

Timestamp: 12:42 – 19:04

• Andrew breaks down compounding: making patient-specific medicine from scratch, especially when commercially available meds don’t exist for particular needs.
• He describes creating hormone replacements tailored to blood/saliva tests, and custom meds for veterinarians.
• Notably, they did "blood serum eye drops" for severe dry eye—made from the patient’s own blood, a process previously limited by logistics until Andrew centralized and streamlined the process.

  “We started doing this blood serum, and I figured out a way… to get the blood shipped to us, make it, and ship it back within 24 hours.” (21:53)

4. Business Innovation: Blood Serum Eye Drops and Growth via Logistics

Timestamp: 19:05 – 26:37

• Andrew recounts innovating the process and scaling from a handful to 40+ prescriptions daily:

  “Once you get the first patient done... they just start sending them to you. And that’s what happened.” (24:26)

• Facebook advertising and direct patient outreach allowed the business to educate doctors and generate demand when few physicians even knew this solution existed.
• Their unique offering eventually drew acquisition interest from a large pharmacy in Atlanta.

5. Exiting Healthcare—and the Burnout That Preceded It

Timestamp: 30:01 – 35:00

• After the family business was sold, Andrew stayed on during the transition but ultimately found the healthcare sector suffocating due to overregulation, burnout, and loss of autonomy.

  “It’s just... I just couldn’t stand it anymore… I was so burned out with... just scummy and I just didn’t want anything to do with it anymore.” (34:10)

• He intentionally took time off rather than jumping immediately into another ill-fitting job.

6. Jumping Industries: From Pharmacy to Business Development in Tree Care

Timestamp: 35:30 – 40:31

• During his “retirement,” Andrew reconnected with Jordan, which sparked the creation of a new, undefined role: Business Development Manager (BDM) at Independent Tree Service.
• Both admit to having no blueprint for this, even using ChatGPT to brainstorm initial strategies.

  “We... invented a business development manager position that neither of us know how the hell to do.” – Jordan (37:53)

• They outline a commission-based, low-risk structure: Andrew leverages personal and family connections in Carrollwood to cultivate new business with HOAs, property managers, and commercial work.
• “Honeymoon unemployment” is short-lived; Andrew discovered he needs intellectual stimulation and meaningful challenge.

7. Strategies for Breaking Into Commercial Tree Work

Timestamp: 40:31 – 56:37

• The plan focuses on Andrew tapping into his personal and family network to access HOA board members and decision-makers (rather than just property managers).
• Jordan emphasizes the need for efficiency, budgeting conversations, and client education for successful commercial bids:

  “I hate wasting my time... If I can know what the budget is, then I can give me a range to work in. I am not wired to maximize your budget...” (49:30)

• They discuss joining industry groups (BNI, CAI, BOMA), though the initial push will be organic via warm leads.

8. Parallels Between Industries: Reputation, Relationship, and Referrals

Timestamp: 56:37 – 60:15

• Andrew relates the referral-driven growth in pharmacy to the tree service business.
• There’s an opportunity to build a trusted network provider list for HOAs—possibly expanding Andrew’s role long-term into a connector across other home services:

  “Who’s to say you can’t take some of your time and pump that into another service... It’s like Andrew’s list.” – Jordan (57:12)

• Andrew is energized by autonomy and the removal of regulations he found paralyzing in health care. Now, he’s hands-on and learning by doing.

9. Learning the Game: First Steps and Monday’s Key Meeting

Timestamp: 60:15 – 63:11

• Andrew is cold-calling, learning the complexities of HOAs, property management, and how decisions are made—with a key conference call scheduled with a major property manager in South Florida who’s also a family friend.
• The team seeks actionable insight on decision criteria, budget cycles, and effective communication to avoid chasing the wrong opportunities.

10. Looking for Support & Connections

Timestamp: 63:11 – 65:27

• Andrew (and the hosts) invite listeners with experience as BD managers or in commercial landscaping/tree care to reach out and share guidance or questions:

  “If you are a BDM, if you have a BDM, if you have wisdom, you can bestow... get in touch with Andrew at [e-mail].” – Jordan (64:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Career Transition:
  “I’ve been off for about two months and I just decided that I’m gonna... do something either on my own or something I actually really like.” – Andrew (35:07)

• On Compounding as a Survival Strategy:
  “If you think you’re going to do the same thing year after year, you’re not going to last.” – Andrew (13:14)

• On Solving Real Problems:
  “These people are desperate... this was really helping people and we were making money. And that’s a good combination.” – Andrew (26:24)

• On Network Power:
  “If you can get me an opportunity to bid... then you get a commission of that contract. That was the easiest, lowest risk way for me...” – Jordan (41:07)

• On Entrepreneurial Restlessness:
  “You get bored—not even bored like you, you’re mentally not stimulated. And I didn’t realize how important it was for me to be challenged.” – Andrew (39:40)

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Adapting to Industry Change: Andrew’s experience underscores the importance of pivoting your business model as markets and regulations change.
• Innovating Logistics: Streamlining processes and leveraging technology/logistics can create major growth opportunities in unexpected niches.
• Leveraging Trust & Networks: Warm leads and personal relationships, especially in industries based on reputation (tree care, healthcare), can supercharge business development.
• Open Dialogue on Role Creation: Sometimes, defining a new position is a collaborative experiment, and transparency about not having all the answers can foster trust and innovation.
• Seeking Mentorship: Both hosts and Andrew openly ask for feedback, knowledge, and network connections from the podcast community.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:30 – Andrew “Duck Fisherman” Introduction
• 06:10 – Deep Dive: Family Pharmacy & Compounding Pivot
• 13:45 – What is Compounding? Hormones, Animals, and Eye Drops
• 21:53 – Innovation: Blood Serum Eye Drops and Scaling Logistics
• 26:31 – Transition: Business Sold, Career Burnout
• 35:30 – New Venture: Business Development in Tree Care
• 41:07 – Strategies for Commercial Tree Work & Compensation Structure
• 49:30 – The Pain Points of Bidding & Client Education
• 56:37 – Referral Power and Cross-Industry Parallels
• 60:15 – Learning on the Job & Building Connections
• 64:33 – Listener Call-Out: Get in Touch With Advice/Questions

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Contact

• Andrew Fucarino: [e-mail]

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Tone:
Conversational, candid, laced with humor and self-awareness. Jason and Jordan foster a space where both tactical business talk and the variable chaos of entrepreneurship are welcome.

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Summary By:
Green Side Up Podcast Summarizer
(Covering the messy, human reality of entrepreneurship in the green industry.)

Transcript

[Jason Lee]

Welcome to Green side Up, the perfect podcast for small business entrepreneurs looking to cultivate success in the landscaping and tree care industry. Join Jason Lee, a seasoned landscaper, and Jordan Upkavage, a true tree whisperer, as they share their wealth of experience and insights to navigate the challenges of growing your business. Get ready to hear real life stories, practical solutions, and invaluable advice that will empower you to thrive amidst the chaos of entrepreneurship. And now, let's keep the Green side Up with your host, Jason Lee and Jordan Upcavage.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Welcome back to the Green sideup podcast, everybody. This is one of your co hosts, Jordan Upcavage.

Jordan, Jason Lee.

And we are. Good to see you, man. I guess we don't need to say that to each other. We've been looking at each other for several hours now.

Yeah. For our listeners, it sounds. Hopefully it sounds good.

Yeah, it's. It's day of. This is a live episode. Welcome to live recording from the Bunker here on a beautiful Thursday morning. And we are in person and we have a guest speaker that has a unique journey from professions and also a good friend of mine, Mr. Andrew Fuccarino. Welcome to the main stage.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Appreciate you guys having me. My first podcast ever. So let's see how it goes.

[Jordan Upcavage]

It's. I think you're going to kill it.

You're AKA Duckman.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Duck Man.

[Jordan Upcavage]

AKA Duck Man.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Duck fisherman.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Duck fish. Duck fisherman.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Correct. Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Well, according to Papa Jerry, you are the duck fisherman. It's like. Who's Andrew? It's like the duck fisherman. Oh, Andrew Duckman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Andrew, why don't you introduce yourself and maybe you can explain why you are coined the duck fisherman.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

I appreciate you guys having me. Yeah. Jordan and I've known each other quite a while. We're down the street, neighbors and always good to be funny guy to be around. So. Yeah. So I am from Tampa, Florida. I born and raised, went to Florida State, came back here after my dad owned a.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Well, tell me before you say dad, right, Tell me how. Why you're a duck fisherman.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Okay. Duck fisherman. So I love duck hunting. I've always loved it. That was my. My first passion. I grew up hunting, period. But then when I started duck hunting, that's my absolute passion. The fisherman part, I think, only came because I like fishing too, but. And I think Jordan's dad decided that that's how he would remember me by so and so instead of just duck hunters. Duck fishermen. So it's kind of stuck.

[Jordan Upcavage]

So are you any good at it?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

I suck at it both of them. You suck. I would. I went. I'm really good at getting out there. I can get out there.

[Jordan Upcavage]

That's the most important part.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

I can put decoys out like you've never seen in your life. Just nothing lands at them. The problem. So now you know Florida is tougher. Duck hunting, if anybody's listening that's from Florida, you probably know what I'm talking about. But you can go hunting and put all your effort in and maybe not see a duck or like the last weekend we saw thousands and only a couple decided to land. So it's tough in Florida. But I love it. That's my absolute passion. So growing up in the bay and just getting out there in the morning and watching the sunrise come up, you know, even that's worth getting out there. But I still love it. I'm probably going to do it again this weekend, so last weekend to do it so. But yeah, so that's what I do. And I do love fishing. I. My first job out of college was for a fishing tackle sales company of one of the biggest distributors in the country. They supplied Walmart and all the big, big people Bass Pro, all those like

[Jordan Upcavage]

hooks in line and everything.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Everything you can imagine. So they Tsunami lures.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Yeah.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

You've heard of them? So that they are. That's their brand. So yeah. So I don't know if I would name drop who it actually is but they huge company now. They have Salt Life is their. Their clothing line, all that kind of stuff. So they've gotten huge since I left there. It's probably since I left they got much bigger. It's not. Or is because I was there that they weren't growing. I don't know either way.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Well, I've had the pleasure to go duck fishing with you say duck hunting, but for the at least twice I can recall duck fishing, never once pulled the trigger. Right. But we did see a lot of pelicans that were definitely within shooting range. But you told me that you know the season, whether it's open or closed doesn't matter. It was. They don't taste that good.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Cuban chickens. We got a lot of ibis, so it's hard. Is that what they're called?

[Jordan Upcavage]

The Cuban chickens?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Ibis.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Sorry.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

A white ibis called Cuban chicken. So apparently they taste good. I've never, you know, on paper I've never eaten one, so.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Yeah, well, sandhill cranes are delicious. I have eaten the ribeye.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

I would love to try one.

[Jordan Upcavage]

The ribeye in the sky. Allegedly they're legal to hunt In Texas. And allegedly. The one I was eating was allegedly harvested in alleged Texas during the alleged season. And it was not allegedly delicious. It was delicious. Absolutely bomb.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

We have hundreds of them fly over our head almost every morning. And it is one of the hard. The. The talk of shooting one of those has happened every single time. Never done it just because the consequences are too. But one day, one day.

[Jordan Upcavage]

One day when you're in Cuba and you're really hungry and go get yourself,

[Andrew Fuccarino]

they might open it up. They've actually talked about opening it up in Florida, but I doubt it.

[Jordan Upcavage]

There are quite a few of them.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Oh, yeah, it's. There's. I know no one cares about this, but there's a subspecies in Florida, and that's why you're not allowed to shoot them. There's a. There's a lesser and a greater, and the smaller ones are not in danger, but they're preserved. You know, they're. They're under protection. And you can't tell the difference in the sky which one's which. So if you. Those greater ones, there's millions of them. There's a lot more than there used to be. And so theoretically, they don't want you shooting the ones that are protected and the ones that aren't.

[Jordan Upcavage]

But how do you make a difference

[Andrew Fuccarino]

when they're standing next to each other? Like, you see, I have them in my backyard. And, like, you'll see one. You know, some of them are as tall as me. Dang near as tall as me. And then there's some of them are, you know, three feet off the ground. They're just a little bit smaller. So that's better. Or it could be a adolescent. You know, it's hard to tell. That's why they don't let you shoot them, is because you don't. You can't tell the difference, especially when they're flying. You have no way of knowing. Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

You must have a very unique subspecies. One that's 5 foot 10. That is a tall. I think those might be cranes. All right, well, tell us. All right, now go back to. Now that we get that out of the way, go back to. Finished at Florida State and move to Tampa. And dad tell me the. The nepotism story of dad's business.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, when I first, I wanted nothing to do. First of all, I grew up. My dad owned this pharmacy. He bought it when I was a year, took a loan out for my grandfather, moved into a smaller house, like, you know, classic. Busted his butt to get what he's Got. So he actually bought this small pharmacy from my great uncle. So it's been in the family since our small little area at the time Carrollwood had started. And so he bought that when I was a year old. So 1985, he bought it. And so I grew up in that business. Didn't want anything to do with it,

[Jordan Upcavage]

you know, like CVS pharmacy.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah. So yeah, yeah. So started out that way. It's a mom and pop small pharmacy. Before there was a big change before there's, you know, if you remember the name, Eckard's and those kinds of places, so conventional, you know, same medicine you go now to get Walgreens, stuff like that we would do. It was also an old school pharmacy. So they had all the, you know, band Aids and everything you can imagine. So lotion, condoms and all that crap. So then things started to change when the big chains started coming because of the huge competition and my dad started compounding. So compounding is a really unique thing where you actually make medication. So it's really specialized. You can make medications that aren't commercially available for kids. Veterinary hormones was a big thing, especially for women going through menopause. That was kind of his specialty. And it became a very lucrative business. It's all cash. There's no insurance. Insurance became so bad with especially small pharmacies. There's no reimbursement. So say you gave your heart medication, it costs you $15. Insurance paid for 50 of it, you know, $50 of the, whatever the copay. You may get like 15 cents out of it. So you got your liability, you're paying a pharmacist however much per hour, ton of money per hour, all the liability ordering all the time, and you're making 15 cents off something. So my dad tried to find another way. Thought outside the box. I think I get that from him.

[Jordan Upcavage]

So trying not to do amoxicillin. Right. And normal.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Right. And you back in the day, you could make a living off of that and mom and pop. That's why you saw a bunch of mom and pop pharmacies. It was. It was lucrative to do that, you know, not, not none of them were getting rich. But, you know, it was enough to get by and make a decent living as a pharmacist. And then, like I said, the chains came in. That was the first big impact on the industry, I guess. And then insurance billing got really bad. And then it got to the point where it just didn't make any sense. And the other thing that would happen is at the end of Every year, or not even end of every year, you get audited by these insurance companies. And all they would have to do is find one mistake that you made. Like you didn't. The doctor didn't sign and date it correctly. And they would. They would take. They wouldn't just take back what you made on that prescription. They would fine you for it. And it got to the point where you would get so financially struck by these things, and we were so good with. With documentation that it didn't happen very often. But I mean, it got to the point where you literally would are spending more money than you're making just off these stupid things. So it's got to the point I had to beg my dad when I started working for him to rid of the conventional side because it just didn't make any sense.

[Jordan Upcavage]

It's not worth the risk.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

No one.

[Jordan Upcavage]

There's not enough juice and lemon.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Right.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Right. To make that 15 cents. Plus you're taking unreasonable amounts of liability.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Right. The good. The only thing there was a draw or the idea that you didn't want to get rid of it, which there was some. Some sense to it is we had a ton of longtime customers and we were afraid we were going to lose those customers that were getting conventional. So we had a ton of. You know, it was a family small, essentially small town. Carrollwood's kind of a weird place if you're not from Tampa. It's like. It's like a. Within a big town and people know each other and they've known each other for years. And it's a very unique place.

[Jordan Upcavage]

So it was like the suburban community before.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, it was a dirt road. Dale. Maybe it was a dirt road.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Yeah. It's the community that was built. There's a golf course there. But it was before the master plan type communities, like, you know, the Lennar Homes, the Dr. Horton, the Lagoon type stuff. It was before that. So it was like a golf course community. All public roads, so no gate. Right.

It was part of the extension of the city.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Part of.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

It's like one of the first. Not a big suburbs. Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

It was like. Yeah. And a suburb in the unincorporated county that was public roadway.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Hence Carrollwood.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yep. Yep. And there's a big lake that kind of sails. Centers around and then Lake Carroll. Yeah. And you know, that's become a very wealthy area. It wasn't back then. You know, this was. It started just like every. Like the baby boomer time where they were just making, you know, blue. I wouldn't call it blue collar but, you know, nicer than, a little bit nicer than, you know, your typical row homes. But it was, you know, very, you know, I always, I always joke that it's like Mayberry and now it really isn't just because things have changed so much. But it was back in there when I was growing up. I mean, it was like everybody knew everybody. I couldn't get away with crap because everybody, my dad and it was like, you know, it was good, it was a good way to grow up. So. And of course, like anything, things change.

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[Andrew Fuccarino]

to the compounding part of it. But so my dad started making medication. That's a very unique thing to do. A lot of pharmacies don't want to do it. A lot of pharmacists don't want the liability. It is costs a big investment right up front with equipment. He did it slowly. There's a lot less regulation back then so it was easier to get into. Nobody's opening a compounding pharmacy right now unless they have a ton of money. Just because it's just you got to have a ton of money to get started and back then you didn't need that. So he started doing that, got really good at it, built a lab out. It became the primary, I would say in Florida we were probably one of the top three company pharmacies for quite a while. And then a lot of them started popping up for nefarious reasons and for just because people realized that billing insurance, you just weren't going to make it as an independent pharmacy anymore. So, so he, he pivoted and to his credit, you know, like anything in businessman, you got you if you Think you're going to do the same thing year after year. You're, you're not going to last, you know. And so he realized, you know, the, the old way of doing things, we're going to do it. So he started compounding. We started.

[Jordan Upcavage]

What is compounding?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yes. So it's making a commercially unavailable. And the reason it has to be that is because any drug that you're getting, like talking about, like amoxillin, anything like that, they're all patented. You can't infringe on a patent, obviously. So they will come after you. You can do it in a small scale, start second, you start getting big, you'll have, you know, Pfizer coming after you with $100 million worth of lawyers. So you got to play by the rules. And the good thing about it is you're not going to do. Everything's custom made per patient. So we're not making scale stuff. You're making a medication for a kid or a cat or a. We did the medication for the penguins at the aquarium. We did medication for elephants, for Ringling Brothers. We did very unique things. So, you know, if an elephant needs. Has an eye infection, you're not going to Walgreens and getting drops for the elephant. You got to get something made. And that's what we did. We did these super unique things. A lot of hormone replacement for women going through menopause. Like I said, it was his big thing. And those specifically are made for that patient. So they get a blood test or a saliva test to find out what they're deficient in and replace it. Exactly what they're deficient in. So it's a really unique thing. A big pharma can't do that. They're not going to do that. It doesn't make sense for them. We could do that. So that's kind of where he found his niche. And then we started doing sterile compounding, which is another level, which sterile is injections or eyedrops. A couple other things too, like IV kind of stuff like that.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Hold on, let me just make sure I understand what compounding is. So I spit in a cup, you do a blood test. I need hormone replacement or eye drops or whatever. And then from the lab, you find out that I'm 0.6 megatrons deficient in kryptonite. Okay. So then you go to the shelf and you take 0.04 kryptonite and you're going to mix it with 0.32 of this and then this filler, and then you Take all of those custom weight or volume ingredients and then pack them together in a pill or a solution. And then you say, okay, here's your custom blend of fertilizer or whatever. And you need to dose yourself with this amount of custom blend at this frequency. That's what compounding is.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

That's compounding. So. Yep. And that's why it's kind of a, it was a very niche or niche, I don't know what you want to call it, thing for small independent pharmacies. So they were the only ones capable of doing that. It's very hands on. A lot of patient contacts. You know, you go to Walgreens now, how many people have talked to the pharmacist in the last 10 years? They're like, you don't talk to them. Well, compounding, you talk to the pharmacist constantly, especially in the beginning, because it's a lot of high touch. It's all cash, which is great because you're not dealing with insurance. You're not getting audited every year.

[Jordan Upcavage]

You know, when you mean cash, it's money, direct money transaction, no insurance. So it could be credit card.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, yeah, right. But it's not in the industry we call cash. Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Waiting to get billed by a third party.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Right. Or, or finding out that the insurance isn't going to reimburse and all that kind of stuff. There's none of that. It got to the point you go to your, your doctor now. You know, a lot of these doctor offices, you notice when you go in, it's not the one doctor that you went to when you were a kid. It's 55 doctors, 110 employees. And you know, those huge offices have the people out front and you see them on the computer all the time. They're doing nothing but insurance billing. So they're, they're, all they're trying to do is get reimbursed. They're trying to put it, you know, put it in the right way so that they get reimbursed or get more money for this. I mean, it's, it's ridiculous. And that's why these, you don't see independent doctors anymore because they can't afford to do it anymore. So, you know, it's classic government getting involved in insurance. And we'll get political on that. But in 2008, everything changed quite a bit, especially with that. So, you know, it. Getting out of the insurance game was a survival tool. And that's why you don't see too many. You know, very rarely you see independent Doctors or independent pharmacies, because it's impossible to do so. So. And that's why compounding was kind of a survival tool for my dad. And it worked out really well. He had some big things that he did. He did some stuff for AIDS back in the day that he was able to make a medication that, I mean, it saved a ton of lives. There's no question about it. Especially when AIDS was new there, whether he wasn't. Nowadays people can live with it pretty much, you know, medicated with what's available. And back then it was a death sentence, you know, and there was a medication, I can't remember the name of it now, but he was able to compound it, and, you know, that was very lucrative for him. And then that became commercially available. And that's the problem with compounding is the second a big pharma company finds out that something's lucrative and then they can make big batches of it, they'll patent it. Can't make it anymore. So, you know, that's the name of the game. Just like any business, you gotta. Gotta constantly adapt. And so that's what we did. And my dad went from that to doing hormone replacement for women. And then we did a lot of eye drops. Eye drops were a big thing when I started working for my dad. So just get back to my story. But I didn't want to work for my dad. Want nothing to do with pharmacy. Didn't want anything to do with the medical field. My brother's a doctor, Mom's a nurse, Dad's a pharmacist. I was the rebel. I didn't want anything to do with it.

[Jordan Upcavage]

So I'm the duck fisher.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, I'm the duck fisherman. And I can't pronounce things real well. So I. So I didn't. Reading stuff in Latin to me is, Isn't. Doesn't go so well. So I, I decided I just didn't want anything to do with it. And it didn't, it didn't excite me too much. But then worked for a couple companies. I got out of college doing mostly sales stuff. And then my dad offered me. He said, hey, listen. He's like, I am getting closer to retirement. I want to retire in the next 10 years. He's like, I need help with the business side of it and I can't do both. And he's like, I know you have a business angled mind. He's like, you don't need to do the clinical side. I want the business side. And so I did that. And you know, it started slow. The hard thing, just like I was talking about earlier with anything in the. In pharmaceutical or just medical field in general, is it's so regulated. So if you think outside the box, you are totally handcuffed. You come up with a good idea, you're probably breaking a law. You also come to the realization that you follow all the rules, you're doing everything right, and then you got some guy coming behind you that doesn't follow the rules, is going to skip town the second he gets in trouble and he's coming and poaching all your stuff because he's. You know, I've always put it as. Imagine playing basketball game, and one team is allowed to travel and the other team isn't, or playing football, and one team's allowed to line up offsides, the other one isn't. You're never going to win the fricking game, right? Even if you're way better than them, you're better at everything. You're never going to win. And so we were going against these people that would break every freaking rule and do it for cheaper because they weren't following the rule and they weren't doing so. It's just. It was really disheartening. And I found that out pretty quick. So the one way I think we kind of adapted is we came up with a. Well, we didn't come up with a doctor came to us with an idea and we actually said yes to it because no one else was doing it. And it's actually eye drops for dry eye. And you actually make the drops out of a patient's blood. So it seems crazy. When he first came to us with it, I'm like, there's no way. You got to think about a sterile environment and you're throwing blood into it. It's just like it's the last thing you think you'd want to do. But the really cool thing about it is it's incredibly effective. And it works really well for people with dry eye and people with dry eye. Imagine having sand in your eyes 24 7, right? You get that dirt in your eyes and you're trying to wash it out. Imagine living with that for years, every day, day and night, especially at night. So anyways, we started doing this blood serum, and I figured out a way to. The big problem with that is you got to get the patient's blood to you. So, you know, typically with any medication, we have it sitting on the shelf. Well, this is a patient having to get their blood drawn and get it to Us, So it's kind of a logistics nightmare. And so you think, well, you can only do that locally. Well, I figured there's a lot more people that need this. And so what I figured out a way is to get the blood shipped to us, make it, and ship it back to him, and we do it within 24 hours.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Holy smokes.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, so now we were restricted to Florida only, because in pharmacy, you have to have a license in every state that you ship to. Getting a pharmacy license out of state's crazy expensive. The pharmacist has to have a board. Take the boards in those states. And some pharmacies do that. The one that bought us out did have all those. They have all 50 states. But at that time, you know, it was unusual that you'd ship out of your state because there's just so much regulation. So we were only in the state of Florida, but I found there was a huge need for it. And no one, no one was doing this. Like some patients, some pharmacies were making these. Nobody was shipping it. Right. So if you didn't live near that pharmacy, it was a nightmare. And even if you did live near it, it was still a nightmare because they didn't care about the logistics.

[Jordan Upcavage]

So is that your job that you were taxed with? Dr. Had the idea about centrifuging blood to make eye drops, and then your dad goes, yeah, that sounds cool, Andrew. Figure out how to make it happen.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Right. So. And honestly, when. When we. The first patient we got that was out of this, we didn't even have an account really with ups. So, like, we didn't know how to ship anything. Like, we. We would send stuff in the mail. We would send some stuff through UPS if it needed to be cold.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Cause all your local people are just coming, picking.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, they're coming to pick it up. So we didn't ship. Yeah. So I didn't know anything about shipping. I didn't know anything about logistics. I didn't know anything about getting the blood drawn. You gotta find places to get blood drawn for people that. In, you know, fricking Podunk, Florida, you know, like. And. And no matter what. But one thing that I did is when a new doctor would call, you know, what's one of those unique things? Same thing, I'm sure in any industry, if you got someone wanting your services, especially that first one, you want to make it work, because you go, all right, there's a ton of potential here. This one's going to suck. But if I can figure this one out, I'm going to get a bunch more. And that was totally true with this. So we first it was in Fort Myers. There's a lot of older people and a lot of older people have dry eyes, especially older women. So I found a small lab down there that was willing to work with us. A lot of labs don't want to do this because it's just strange like Quest and all those places don't want to do it. So I found a small lab there and you know, it was great because they wanted business, I wanted business. They wanted our customers to be happy so they'd come back. This is a lifetime thing. They're going to be on it the rest of their life, which is awesome. Like that's the greatest thing in the world when you have medication, right?

[Jordan Upcavage]

Renewals.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yes, exactly. So and once you get the, once you get the first patient done and it works out well, they just start sending them to you. And that's what happened. And so we went from doing a couple per week to 40 per day and. Yeah. And so. And it got to the point where I was spending, I don't know, three or four hours every afternoon just shipping, like just packing eyedrops and shipping. And we almost got to the point where I hired someone just in the afternoon. We ended up getting another tech to do it. But yeah, I mean it was awesome because it's very high touch obviously. But once they start rolling in it just, it kept going and growing and that's why we got bought out. So my dad decided that he was going to put his to sell the pharmacy. I didn't want any. I, I knew from the very beginning I didn't want to take over the pharmacy. It's very hard to be a non pharmacist and own a pharmacy. You need to have a pharmacist that's names on it, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, long story short, he decided, you know, we're going to sell it, put it up on like a brokerage thing so they find people that want to buy it. And so we had a giant pharmacy in Atlanta actually buy us out specifically for those eye drops. Like we had plenty of other business too, but not enough to where they would have bought us out.

[Jordan Upcavage]

It was the reoccurring revenue in the specialty of the eye drops.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

And we had a reputation, so we had a reputation of a being a very, a very up to date board certified which is really hard to do especially in sterile compounding pharmacies. It's like there's very few people that have that credibility. And we already had the trust of the doctors. We had a huge patient base to begin with and they wanted to spread it all over the country and do the same thing that I did in Florida and just recreate it all over the state. And like I said, I mean, it became my, it wasn't. The reason I got hired is to do that. It became my full time job is doing these eye drops. That was it. It was talking to the patient the first time, making them feel comfortable talking to the doctors.

[Jordan Upcavage]

All that kind of stuff created a job.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Which is where this is going in the next, you know, in the next 35 minutes is where this is going to go.

Yeah. And so before we jump into the next. So would the doctor init the eye drops or would you all educate them?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, that's a good question.

[Jordan Upcavage]

You're moving across the state. How did.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, it's a good question. So when we started doing this, I, I remember when the doctor came to us, he's a really well known doctor in Tampa and he came to us and I thought it was the craziest thing I'd ever heard of. You know, like most people, when I tell people the first time, think what the heck. I googled it. And the only thing back then when you google what this was, it was for veterinary use. And people in Europe doing it on their own, they were doing it in their house. Like they would get, they literally would draw their own blood, they'd put it in a centrifuge and they'd pour it into a dropper bottle and they just drop it into their eyes. Which is beyond not sterile. But at the same time, these people are desperate. And I realized that too. I think for me, especially in the medical field, I would get burned out because you feel like you're not doing anything or helping anybody. Then this was really helping people and we were making money. And that's a good combination. To have you that feeling of helping somebody's awesome. Plus you're making, plus you're making money and, and people are coming to you, asking you for it, you know, like you're helping, you're solving a problem, which is. I love that feeling. I get that you get the high from that. So, yeah, so back to your question. There was such little stuff about it and these people are miserable. Like there's been a couple other commercial drugs that come out to help dry eye and they do work. But back then, you know, this was 12 years ago probably there really wasn't much. And this was on the Internet. And people that were using it were saying, this is life changing. And so people were doing their own research and looking for it, but no one was doing it and no one could get it done. Doctors wouldn't write for it because they were like, that's fricking nuts. I don't know who's going to do that. So I actually advertised to patients initially on Facebook. So what I would do is I would go to these central areas, like Fort Myers. That's how it happened. I would go on Facebook. On Facebook, back then you could do with medical stuff. Now you can't. You can pick an area, you can pick a income level, you can pick male or female, you can pick anything you wouldn't believe, like all the little nitpicking stuff. And you can advertise directly to them. You pay advertisement. And it was super cheap back then. It was like you could reach thousands of people for 20 bucks. Right. And especially back then, and still today, I think our target audience was older women. They're the ones on Facebook, they're the ones scrolling, looking at their family's picture. Like most kids now are on, you know, TikTok and Instagram and all this kind of whatever the other things are. So back then it was like perfect timing for that. So I advertise pretty heavily in those areas. And so the patient would call us saying, hey, I want these. And it's like, well, we still need a prescription. Who's your doctor? I would call the doctor, I would, I would mail, fly like a folder with everything they needed, all the information they needed. We're a reputable pharmacy. So like if they googled us and said, who are these quacks? They look it up and go, it's a real business. It's a board certified sterile, common pharmacist. They've been around since 1965. Like, we're not fly by wire. Like, this is a legit place. So then you would get that doctor call. I mean, our biggest doctor was sending 20 per week to us. And he literally called me one day, just called the pharmacy, talked to me for 20 minutes, felt comfortable and sent one patient. And then they just were like rolling in. And it was from a patient going to him saying, hey, I found this online, can I please try this? I'm miserable. Like, I don't care what happens. Like, what does your dad give you?

[Jordan Upcavage]

A pat on the back, a handshake? And he's like, yeah, so. And that's, that's why I hired.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, exactly. So I. Yeah. And you know, at the time, it was. It was right when I was like, before I was getting married, before I had kids or anything like that. And I was just like, anxious, you know, like, I wanted to make more money and. And I didn't see, honestly what we were doing at the time. Everyone was doing. We weren't. We weren't unique anymore because there were so many other company pharmacies doing the. This made us unique. And when you make that, something like that, you know, especially a big drive like that, it's. You know, it was kind of amazing. So, yeah, so we did that. Then my dad decided. So like I said, these. These people came down and talked to us from Atlanta. And this is a big. I mean, I wouldn't call it a corporation, but they're huge. They have 100 something employees. They. We were doing 60 prescriptions a day. These people were doing 300 prescriptions a day. Like, it was a big pharmacy, right? And. And they were nationwide. They were shipping all over the country. They were doing other stuff that are very high touch kind of like this, and they just wanted to get in on it. So anyway, so sold the pharmacy. I decided to stay on with them. It was kind of. I wouldn't say contractually, like they wanted the deal. They wanted me. And honestly, I. I wanted to stay too, because I. You have to understand, too, like, this pharmacy is. You know, it sucks because I wish. I do wish it was still in my family somehow. It doesn't make sense. It wouldn't make sense unless I. Hey, if I was a pharmacist or just the regulation changes, you know, all these small independent pharmacies are getting gobbled up by bigger ones, unfortunately, it's kind of the name of the game. But I wanted to see them do well, obviously. And so I pretty much set. I was like, I'm gonna do one year. You guys are gonna learn everything from me, and then I'm gonna be. I'm gonna do something else. Like, I knew I didn't want to be in this the rest of my life, so. And I didn't see a huge future in it either. Like, I want to, you know, I want to be a little bit more. I don't think I realized at the time how much I enjoyed being. I wouldn't saw. I mean, my dad was always the boss, but I was pretty close, and I liked being that. You know, I don't like someone else telling me, you know, not so much what to do, but like how to do stuff. And when it's, you know, it's a Bad idea and you have no say in it. You know that that always bothered me when I worked for other people. So we sold. I worked for them for more like two and a half years instead of one year just because I was scared to venture out on my own. But it worked out well. You know, I don't have any hard feelings towards them. I hope they do well. And all the employees and we have, we have employees that have been there for 25 years and they're all still like family to me.

[Jordan Upcavage]

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put in your two weeks, months ago, months ago and said, I'm, I'm out, I'm out. And what did you have lined up where, hey, I'm out. You already were. I know the answer to this. But you already had another job lined up. Career change.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

I knew I didn't want anything to do with healthcare. That was my thing, okay? I was like, I don't want a dang thing. I actually had quite a few people right after I, they found out that I left there. I had a couple other offers from people that I worked with in the past. One of the blood draw places, all these places, they're like, hey, come work for us. You know, we have this and this. And I'm like, I don't want. It was like I was miserable. I was absolutely miserable in that, in that space. And like, I was so burned out. I was so burned out with, you know, when they, when they hired me, my role changed to 100% sales of going into these doctor's offices and trying to get more business. And like, even though I did that in the past and I did over the phone, mostly because we didn't have to, you know, I wasn't going out in the field so much. I would do it when I had to, but, you know, I was doing doctor lunches and like, it's just, it's just. I just couldn't stand it anymore. So, you know, once I got out of there, I was like, all right, I want to get out of here. I've always been drawn towards more like the trades or construction or like, you know, my mind works that way more. There's a lot more freedom in it. You know, like I said, the healthcare industry is just so over regulated and kind of just scummy and I just didn't want anything to do with it anymore.

[Jordan Upcavage]

So.

So you quit. You retired.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Retired.

[Jordan Upcavage]

And then did you jump into another job that you had lined up? I did not.

Okay.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

I've been, I've been. I've been. I've been off for about two months and I just decided that I'm gonna. Instead of jumping right into something else that I'm miserable in, I'm gonna really think about this and do something either on my own or something I actually really like. And I'm not gonna just, you know, I'm not going to just jump into something I hate and then be stuck in it for another 10 years and be 50 years old and.

[Jordan Upcavage]

All right, now let's get straight to the point of what Andrew's really doing here with independent tree service.

So.

And let's get into the nitty gritty, all right, because we've, we've talked about

[Andrew Fuccarino]

you and there's a.

[Jordan Upcavage]

This mythical person now.

Now we know, now we know that Andrew is vetted.

Yes.

That he's a hard worker.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yes.

[Jordan Upcavage]

That he can create a job out of. Not a job.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yes.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Create a need and a niche. Capitalize on that niche via hard work and go creatively thinking to Facebook, get it through the patient to the doctor. Want it. Get credibility over the phone. Go from one patient to 40 prescriptions a day. Blast it up to where it is. So financially valuable. Out of state money. Want to buy it because there is recurring revenue in a niche market. So he's vetted. Talented, good looking, can hold a conversation can. Great duck fisherman, poor harvester. So I'm driving around. I've known Andrew since I bought my house in 2016. You have a young kid named Carter. I got young kids. We're bebopping around and this is a couple months ago and I'm going through the pains of Independent Tree service. You know, year following a hurricane we're kind of slow. There's some commercial work out there that I want but I don't know how to get it with HOA CDD's commercial work and came up with a phantom position of business development manager and through a couple of golf cart passings and driveway talk said Andrew, would you like to come work for me at Independent Tree Service to be a business development manager to go out and get commercial work. And it's so nice to have this talk with you because this is the longest we have talked really in this venture and that you described that you didn't like work. You don't, you like being the boss and or very close to being the boss but you don't like being told necessarily how to do something or do something that's stupid. So I and we Jordan and Andrew have invented a business development manager position that neither of us know how the hell to do. We chat GPT how to do it in your living room the other day and that's a good start.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

It's a good start here these days

[Jordan Upcavage]

and I can promise I am not going to tell you how to do it because I sure as don't know to do it or am I going to pretend to do it. So where this is going is Andrew is part of Independent Tree Service to be the BDM and you have an email from Independent Tree Service which is andrew independent treeservice.com and a password now and a password Genuine bonafide. You're in. So that's kind of like hey man, here's this dude that he's a good dad, lives right there, rightfully unemployed and has tons of talent. And did the honeymoon phase of unemployment get old after a while?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, you know, I think some people can do that. You know, you always hear people when they retire, they're like, oh, it's the greatest thing ever. Then you see some people that are like miserable. They die a year after because they're just miserable.

[Jordan Upcavage]

They're bored.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

They're bored. Yeah. And like, you know, I was, I was super fortunate enough, you know, throughout my life, like I was financially stable where I could do that. Like not many people can take two, three months off and like not be broke or you know, sell their house or something like that. So I knew I was going to take that time off. I, I didn't realize how quickly I would get. You get bored? Not even bored like you, you're mentally not stimulated. And I didn't realize how important it was for me to be like challenged and stuff like that. And you really. I wouldn't recommend it. When you're young, I would not recommend doing that. You know, like now you, you, you know, make a, you know, $100 million and you want to go live on a yacht somewhere. It's great. I guarantee you after a year you're going to be just as miserable.

[Jordan Upcavage]

So you can't guarantee that because you don't have $100 million on a yacht sailing all the way around.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, I'll be nice. Yeah, I, Yeah, well, if, if you're. Yeah. Sitting at home sucks. So I, you know, and I did a lot of things for. In the beginning I stayed busy, but now it's just like, it's at the point where I gotta, I gotta you know, do something in, you know, obviously I can't be unemployed the rest of my life, so.

[Jordan Upcavage]

So. And you don't pressure wash your driveway anymore?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

No.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Or you won't have a driveway left?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

I don't have any concrete left. No. I, yeah, every house project is done, I can tell you that right now. So I, but yeah, I mean, you know, and I think some people are built that way where they can sit down and do nothing or you know, be fine. But I'm not built that way. So.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Okay, so what's the plan that Chat came up with and what's the first step for a plan of attack?

Well, so it was challenging to figure out on my end. Okay, compensation. How am I going to pay for this? All right, that was challenging. And then it was, okay, Andrew, how much of this do you want to do? Do you want to work 40 hours a week and this is your full time deal? Do you want to work 10 hours a week, 20 hours a week? How are we going to do this? So we talked about base play plus commission. We talked about all commission. It's still gray and muddy and we're not really clear. But the way that I can rationalize this is there is time and effort needed to make the relationship, to get the opportunity to bid. So Andrew, if you can go to Carrollwood Apartments. Okay, let's start. I would think the least barrier to entry is start with the personal network for the people that you already have earned trust. Okay, so that's pulling on you growing up in Carrollwood and your life and Carrollwood is an affluent part of town. You know, maybe in the 60s when 70s when it was built, it wasn't, you know, million Dollar houses. But there's million dollar houses there. Now, if you have the Andrew Fucarino network, that is then paired with Dan Fucarino, your dad, who everybody knows Dan Fucarino. And Dan, your dad knows other people that have other businesses. Like, we don't need to go through details, but some very successful restaurant chains that network, you already have the trust. If you can pull on that for HOA board representatives, then that's your way in. That's not directly through the property manager. That may change hands a ton of different times. The board is like the golden nugget for decision making. So the idea is, all right, well, let's start on the board who you personally know and conjure that, you know, brew that cauldron. And if you can get me an opportunity to bid, let's say I'm going to bid a project and it costs $30,000. Okay. If I get awarded that contract, then you get a commission of that contract. Just like a lot of salespeople are commission based or base plus commission. Okay. So if it's commission based, it's not taking a ton of overhead expense on my end because you're rewarded on the deals that we actually earn. Another spitballing idea is, okay, here's a deal. And you could say, jordan, I didn't work very hard for this one, or Jordan, I had to work crazy hard for this one. I want X amount of dollars if we get the job. Say it's $500, say it's $5,000. It doesn't matter. Well, then when I go to estimate this assignment, I can put that payroll number into the job to where if I win it, that's your cut. So that was the easiest, lowest risk way for me to rationalize how to start this and not pay a however many thousands of dollars salary of risk because we haven't even swung the bat yet. Now, we have had one formal day at work together. It was two weeks ago. Ish. We went to a construction site that is an apartment complex that is under construction. Right. They just demoed all the trees and we have to do some pruning. So you walked with us, you know, boots on dirt, you know, construction site. And you got to see all of the work that goes into preserving the trees that have to stay. And you were like, holy crap, I had no idea. This amount of thought went into the trees that have to stay. So you spend a day with me on a commercial site I would love for. We need this goes back to our discipline of put together a come to work day next week, and you come run normal sales calls and see what consumers are thinking and see how my interaction with, let's say a homeowner would be. And so, yeah, this is Andrew Fucarino, business development manager of independent tree service in the infant stages of. We're trying the hell to figure out how to. How to do this. But you found some information on the computer. Jason, you just hired Aaron Alvarez as a business development manager. So this is an awesome time to shed some light here and then figure out how to push baby Moses down the river in a basket.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Yeah.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Well. And the one day we spent together, like Jordan was saying, like, first of all, it made me realize I always knew Jordan knew his craft crap with tree stuff. But, like, you realize when you get in that, like, this guy knows a ton and is a huge resource to these people. I mean, it's, you know, it's. It was leading the blind on that one. So he.

[Jordan Upcavage]

He did.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

I realized, too, if I can get Jordan in front of somebody, it would be that's game ending. Right? Right. Just, like, once you get the trust that. That I think he can create with some of these people. And I realized, too, and I've talked to, I don't know, three or four different HOA board members just from family connections and another one that someone else gave me, and you really realize, too, is like, it's a huge headache for them. It's a huge headache. You know, these board members aren't making any money. They're not. They're doing this on. They don't want to deal with it. The property managers don't want to deal with it. They don't want to deal with a bad job. They don't want to deal with any of that kind of stuff. So, like, just like, bring it back to the eye drops thing. Like, you're solving a problem for both sides. And, you know, I don't know how to solve that problem yet because I'm brand new at it. And, you know, like I said, I'm freaking cold calling, you know, random property management companies trying to figure this out. But I think there is a huge. There's a huge problem that needs to be solved in knowing Jordan, knowing Independent Tree. I mean, their reputations.

[Jordan Upcavage]

It's the same of Carrollwood Farmers.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Exactly. And what makes me really drawn to it is it's also a father and son business, and I love that. Like, I have so many friends that, you know, took over their dad's businesses or work with them, and, you know, there's a lot of drawbacks to it personal wise, just because it's tough to deal with family. But it's also an amazing thing. And I love to. I love to watch businesses go to the next generation. And so, you know, if nothing else, like I told Jordan from the very beginning, I was like, dude, you're my friend. I want to help you. Dude, I was like, I just, I want to see your business do well, and if I can make some money, that'd be great. So, yeah, so that's kind of where we're starting. Like you said, I am. This is a totally new industry for me. I think my strong suits will be really good with this. But so, so like Jordan said, like,

[Jordan Upcavage]

I'm figuring out a similar position at the same exact point in time. Like actively right now.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Aaron's official. I don't know when this is going to air, but two to four weeks of being here officially at Sky Frog. Obviously Aaron and I have a history together from in with Jordan, and we all went to school together and she and I worked together and ran a business in college. So, like, we, we have some history and she has an extensive amount of knowledge in the industry. So. But like, with our plan of attack with her starting, it's, you know, on this business development position. Like when I used to work at Austin Outdoor, there was a guy, Barry. Barry was the BD guy. No one knew what Barry did. Not a clue. Barry took people to lunch. Barry played golf. Barry got people to send RFPs to Austin and then we got to bid them. So it was all really, it's all relationship building and then education of what? You know, how we can help, you know, how can we help with this construction project? How can we help with, you know, for us it's, you know, landscape maintenance in an hoa. We just had, we're having our weekly meeting yesterday morning. Into the meeting, we're talking about the same exact topic. Like, where are we gonna, where are we going to go?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

What are we going to do? How are we going to do it?

[Jordan Upcavage]

You know, and part of that is education. Well, one is getting in front of the hoas, if we're using that as an example. So getting in front of the hoas, educating them on whatever they're interested in, whatever pain points they have with their service or on our end, we can talk trees too. It's like, what do you want to talk trees? Like, we'll talk anything with you and at the end, you know, let them know that you can help them out with X, Y and Z problems in the future and, you know, make a little bit of a sales pitch, but, you know, really presenting with them on the educational side of things. And as we're discussing this in the office, Michelle turns around and runs out and she's like, oh, this neighborhood just called and they want us to come out and give a talk. And so it's like, oh, well, perfect. So, like the. The communities, especially the ones, I'm sure you're gonna have HOAs, where the boards aren't that active, they're not that big, they still need tree work. So you might have to lean on the property manager there. But I mean, they. They want the education. They want someone to come, especially if you get the Karens and the squeaky wheels in the neighborhoods that are throwing a fit about whatever the topic might be. Let's quiet them down by somebody that's going to come and educate them on the right way to do things. So that's.

And if the problem can be solved, here's the problem that I think I'm creating in my head. I hate wasting my time. I hate not knowing, especially when it comes to multifamily or commercial. It's hard to have an idea of what are their objectives because they don't know their objectives. It's easier. Or, well, let's say this. The stuff's hitting the building. The stuff's too low for the parking. Got it. There's dead branches falling. Got it. We can provide that obvious service for you, but there's looming future problems where we have a tree that's declining that should be a candidate for removal at some point now or in the future. And then let's add more to increase scope. There's pruning that can be done to reduce likelihood of failure on trees or tree parts that have defects or that may not be attached very well, like reduction pruning. Okay, well, if I'm going to go. If the property manager says, hey, I need a bid to trim all the trees, then I have to have the. Okay, what are you looking for? Oh, it's low and there's some deadwood. Okay, I can give you that number. What about this reduction pruning? Oh, yeah, sure. You can put that in there if you want. So if I put it all in there, my number's higher because there's more work. Or if I separate the numbers for the obvious pruning and then the upsell of structural pruning, I had to put a lot of time into making that separate line item, too. And in the proposal I have to educate the decision maker of why this is important. Well, the property manager I met with, I might attempt to educate them and then I'm relying that they are going to relay that information via words to the decision maker and they're not. It's just going to be on the paper. So I'm going to spend all of this time pouring my heart and soul into the piece of paper just to hope that they have the budget to do that. And this is what I don't want to do is waste time. If I can know what the budget is, then I can give me a range to work in. And I am not wired to maximize your budget. If you have $100,000 budget and I think the obvious work might cost 60 grand, I'll say, hey, it might cost 60 grand, but you really have another $200,000 that could be done here. Let's either do it now, special assessment, or let's not maximize your budget. Let's come in under if you're at 100, let's come in under at 60, let's bank that 40 for the next two years, then you have enough money to do the bigger project and then we can get ahead of the problems and stop being so reaction driven, be a little more forethought and preventative driven. But that is like the unicorn and takes so much effort with a low likelihood of success. So if you can bring me opportunity, you can vet what the objectives are, then I can be more efficient with my time. If we establish the trust and we start doing work together with the company, then the upsell of reducing the likelihood of future failures is a lot easier to be done because we have that trust. But it's exhausting where me in my position, I'm wearing so many damn hats to put effort into making this happen. Something's got to give. I either do this and I offload all my residential duties or I offload this venture into somebody else and I keep doing what I'm doing, which is what I want you to do, Andrew. And then after you've saturated the Andrew Fucarino Carrollwood network of who you know, then there's new business to go after. That's the long game. So we could try a rotary, a chamber of commerce, a bni, there's organizations like BOMA or CAI that you can join in to then be. And this is later down the road, right? We gotta start with the low hanging fruit of the Carrollwood network. But the BOMA is like a two or three year play of getting in and Being known. That's the trust establishment. And then opportunities come from there.

So I would say if. Well, also it depends on if Andrew wants to work seven and a half hours a week or if he wants to work closer to 40 hours a week.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Week.

[Jordan Upcavage]

But if he wants to work 40

hours a week, it's seven and a half hours a day. Or it's 14 hours a day.

No, in between. But if you want to.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

But the.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Because Aaron is also getting back in the BNI group.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

We.

[Jordan Upcavage]

My previous designer was in the BNI group for a long time and then she drank the Kool Aid. She went, she did all the things. It kind of ran its course. We got out. But like there's benefit to it. We don't have boma, which apparently is a pretty good organization anyway in this area and some larger, larger municipalities. Little Gainesville, we don't have one. But like my recommendation would be to get in one now is that takes time to build. So like while you, while you're over here with the people you know and the maybe warmer connections, like go ahead and jump right into this and start building those connections so that when this is done, then this is warming up.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Yeah, just move.

[Jordan Upcavage]

You're moving down the line.

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[Andrew Fuccarino]

I do have a ton of connections on me. Everything I've, almost everybody I've talked to has been somebody through somebody I've known so far. And the good thing with that is, you know that even though it might exhaust out during that time of, of going to a new HOA or going to these new properties, I'm gonna I'm dance to know somebody else get a new contact. They're gonna see your work, they're gonna build trust and you're gonna, you're gonna constantly be, you know, same thing happened with the pharmacy stuff. Like, you know, I would even every time a new doctor would call, say hey listen, like you know, Dr. So and so in Fort Myers. Like, oh yeah, he's like the, he was like the dry eye guy. I was like, he uses us. I was like, call him. I was like, talk to him about it. You know, it's like. And so you're going to get those recommendations through doing good work through that kind of stuff. So we'll, you know, I think or it'll organically happen through once I exhaust the people I know. And I think those B and I things like I, we did that with pharmacy for a little while. It made no sense for pharmacy. It's just not the right group for us. But I mean they do, I mean they obviously have a ton of connections in there too. So.

[Jordan Upcavage]

And I think that you're already, you're already ahead in the game with what you're going to be doing because in a different market you might be at the point where you need to be educating them that they need a budget for tree work. Yeah, that between the city of Tampa and Hillsborough county, it's sounds like everyone is scared to death anyway of trees and the regulations and it's a pretty well known thing what needs to happen happen in that industry compared to other places where you might have to start with, you know, trying to reinvent the wheel. Right. Right here it seems like the. I would imagine that the customer is already somewhat educated in the necessity of it.

And I don't want to discourage you from personal growth. I want you to win. I want to win. If you as the BDM part of independent tree service kicks ass, that's great. But this could for you be a bigger thing where maybe independent tree service isn't the only widget that's under your wing. Right. You, you could be an employee, you could be a contractor, you could be a sub. So if you have, if you figure all this crap out with me, who's to say that you can't take some of your time and pump that into another service? Right, Right. It could be the landscaper, the roofer, the plumber. And if you have trust with these decision makers, then they're the first phone. Andrew, I need a tile guy. And that you have. It's like Andrew's list. Right. But that's Like, I'm looking up in the stars, fantasy lands, but who knows where this could go?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

That's exactly what I was thinking when I started. When you initially came to me too, I was like. And I started googling and trying to figure out if there was already a service similar to that. And there are some that are big, broad HOA type things. But like you said too, I mean, you know, initially start out with this and then like I said too, as long as they're not competing, like, you know, we know. I know I pretty much know somebody that either owns or is big up in some trade that I know every one of them, like roofing, ac, plumbing, like, I know all these guys. And if you can be the reputable person to recommend those people, I'm sure they would love that. Like I said, you just want a chance to bid. You don't even know these things are happening. Right. And I'm sure they're the same way. Like I have. My cousin has a huge AC distribution company. He's the same way. He's like, man, I don't know half these places that are going to bid because I don't even get a chance on it. I don't have the time to do it. So there's definitely a big part of that. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to. Like I said, it's tough because it's brand new. So I'm learning every time I call somebody, you feel like an idiot at first. But then honestly, everybody I've talked to has been super helpful with let me know how the whole system works. I've never lived in an HOA my entire life. This is more. I've learned more in the last two weeks about hoas than I've ever known. So I. Yeah. And you know, and I've kind of realized too with hoas is they have a lot of the stuff that I found was these statutes in Florida, these places. The reason a lot of times they hire these property management companies is because they have lawyers on staff for all this stuff because they need to have it documented the right way. They need to have. They don't want to get sued, they don't want to do all this kind of stuff. So there's like a lot. So if you can, if you can streamline that to the point. Point. Especially with like tree work, there's a ton, I'm sure of liability involved with that. So if you can streamline that for them, it takes a huge weight off of both of them to know that they got a reputable person coming in there and not freaking, you know, pirate tree company. So yeah, so I'm looking forward to it. Like I said, I'm a little, it's brand new so it's a little nerve wracking, but I think it's gonna turn out all right.

[Jordan Upcavage]

We have a conference call scheduled for Monday, four days from now. So who are we talking to? Yeah, about.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

So I. Another kind of somewhat family connection. But I, I was just googling property management groups in Florida and I kept seeing this one pop up. I'm not going to name drop him yet because I haven't talked to him so I want to make sure he does. But I recognized his name and I couldn't remember why I recognized but I'm like, man, that name sounds familiar. And he's the owner of this, this big company. It's one of the biggest ones in south Florida. Unfortunately they only go up to about Fort Myers and down. So it's probably not something that we're going to be able to help him with stuff. But he, I told, I called my dad, I said dad, how do I know this name? He's like, we've been going, we've been mountain biking with him a hundred times. And I realized who it was and it's roundabout way, it's one of my dad's good friends. He worked for the same giant roofing company supply company for years and he went off on his own to do because he was in that industry. He realized that these HOAs in, in proper management was where he wanted to start a company. And so I called him and I said, hey, you probably don't remember me. He's like, dude, of course I remember you. So he's like I'd love to talk to you. How about Monday at 10? And he's like, you can pick my brain. He's like, I would love to hear what you're thinking. And, and so super nice guy. I, I realized who he was after my dad told me and I think he's gonna be a huge. We'll learn. Like I said, you'll learn more in 30 minutes with him than I'd probably learn in a year doing this crap on my own. So it'll be good. I mean like I said too. I, I talked to a couple board members on hoas just to learn. Like how does, how do you guys do this? You know, like, and their pain points. Like he hates being on the HOA board. He's like, I don't want to be on it. He's like, I had to re up every year. I hate it, but no one else will do it. He's like, so they hate it. They don't want to be on it. You always think like, oh, these guys are in Florida is unique because they. From what I've found is they're very restrictive on. They don't want. What you classically hear hoas doing is making money off contracts. And being you, you always hear about my aunt. I remember my grandmother, they had to redo their roofs in their condos. The HOA member made like a hundred thousand dollars off of the roof thing. And he's like, they can't do that anymore. They used to be able to. They can't do that anymore. So unless there's some roundabout way, they do it illegally. But so anyways, it's, you know, right now it's a learning game and I love it. I mean, the good thing about it compared to the medical field is the handcuffs are off. You know, it's like I was so handcuffed and now they're off. Like, I can run Sea Biscuit until I'm haze. I haven't run it, boss. So it does. It feels good to make the connections I like doing. I kind of forgot that I like doing that. So I think it'll be good. Yeah.

[Jordan Upcavage]

But that'd be interesting on Monday if we can get some wisdom on what qualities and things they're looking for. So we know how to represent ourselves and then how to make contact with the right people that can make a decision.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Right.

[Jordan Upcavage]

And how budgets work, how budgets budget season, what questions to ask, what not to say, or just how to represent yourself and identify what their problems are and if and how we could solve them and see if we could figure out really quick with a short amount of time if we are a good fit for them. Independent tree. And if they're a good fit for

[Andrew Fuccarino]

us without wasting time.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Without wasting time. Because if we're not a good fit for them, it's not going to work. If they're not a good fit for us, it's not going to work. So let's just be. Be very direct. It's like speed dating after you've been divorced. You're like, all right, I'm not dating this person for an extended period of time. Like, are we getting along or not? You know, it's not the third grade romance.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Right? Right. Yeah. And I think to the other thing is, I realized this, you know, in my past life, but it took me forever to ask for contacts, to ask for references, to ask for that stuff. And when I started doing that, it made a huge difference. And, like, you just can't be afraid to ask because, like, you know, people don't mind. Like, they, especially if you, they think you can help somebody else, they're not going to be. And they know you're not, you know, a telemarketer that's going to bomb their phone. You just, you just want some names, you know, like, get me. Get me in. So I think with this guy on Monday, I think, you know, he's in that world so much that he probably has some context up here that at least maybe we can just pick their brain and figure it out, you know,

[Jordan Upcavage]

so, yeah, so if, Andrew, I want you to use your most current email address. But if we have a listener, and here I, oh, I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna try to remove myself out of this and let the king ding, a ling of the committee do the king dinglingery. So if there is anybody with a business development manager position, if you are a bdm, if you have a bdm, if you have wisdom, you can bestow on Green side Up podcast or if you have questions you want to ask, I'm doing the same thing and starting, how do we do it? Where are you at that? How can a listener get in touch with you, Andrew, to either give guidance or ask questions?

[Andrew Fuccarino]

So that would [e-mail] so that's AndrewDependentTreeService.com Blow me up.

[Jordan Upcavage]

And if you happen to be a landscape company in the greater Tampa area, feel free to reach out to [e-mail] if you need tree work done on any of your properties, or if you're

an hoa, you're a property manager, or

if you're Trey Roquin and you finally want to throw your boy a bone, you know, hey, or Ryan, if you're listening, you know, cool.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

That'd be awesome.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Well, that is the journey in the saga of Joe Dirt. And by Joe Dirt, I mean Andrew Fuccarino.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

They call it worse.

[Jordan Upcavage]

From college to duck fishing to stocking shelves with band aids, compounding, mailing stuff out, growing a business so it's so valuable someone else wants to buy it. Living the journey of a family buyout company, sticking with that company, retirement, fixing your house, boredom, golf cart conversation, and what the hell, let's do an experiment.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Absolutely.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Andrew Fucarino, 2026.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

That's right there.

[Jordan Upcavage]

Well, Andrew, thanks for walk down and, and recording with us.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Today.

[Jordan Upcavage]

And we have the professional bull rider rodeo that we need to be attending in a few hours at Amelie Arena. The. The old pbr. All right, amigo.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Jason Lee]

As you continue your journey toward entrepreneurial success, let Jason and Jordan be your trusted companions on this uphill climb. Don't miss out on future episodes of the Green side Up podcast. Make sure to hit that follow button to stay updated. For more ways to connect with the guys, check out the podcast description. Thank you for tuning in. And remember, keep working hard so you can play even harder and keep the green side up.

[Andrew Fuccarino]

Sam.