Ep 112. From Fanboy to BDM: Eric's Gravely Journey and Growth Playbook

Summary

Green Side Up Podcast — Ep 112 Summary

Episode Title: From Fanboy to BDM: Eric's Gravely Journey and Growth Playbook
Hosts: Jason Lee & Jordan Upcavage
Guest: Eric, Business Development Manager at Gravely Commercial Mowers
Date: February 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the entrepreneurial “weeds” of the green industry, featuring Eric—a self-professed “fanboy” turned Business Development Manager (BDM) at Gravely Commercial Mowers. Hosts Jason and Jordan explore Eric’s career arc, the landscape equipment industry, and the practicalities (and psychology) of business development and growth in landscaping. The discussion oscillates between business strategy, war stories from the field, and hands-on talk about equipment, delivering real-world takeaways for owners aspiring to thrive, not just survive, in the green industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Eric’s Journey: From Fanboy to BDM

• Origin Story:
  • Eric shares his Chicago roots, recalling memories with Aaron’s mowers, cementing his long-standing affection for the brand ([05:32]).
  • After a chance airport encounter post-Equip Expo in Louisville with Jordan (October), Eric joins the Green Side Up crew to discuss his path ([02:16–03:33]).
• Company Background:
  • Gravely is a commercial division of the Aaron’s Company (privately owned, in its fifth generation), with a rich history in snow machines, hospitality (Olympic Nordic Training Center in Wisconsin), and a tradition of recognizing long-standing employees ([03:37–05:15]).
  • "Aaron’s is a big name up north. Right. So, not so much in Florida… but growing up, riding on Aaron’s mowers. That’s a thing." — Eric ([05:32]).

2. Industry Collaboration vs. Competition

• Collaboration & Growth:

  • Industry events like "Grow" (a major peer networking conference) foster community and knowledge exchange, illustrating that business owners across states face similar labor and operational challenges ([09:28–10:07]).
  • "You have your company, and I can be literally three miles away from you and have my company, and we can thrive ... we can live here together and be good business owners and thrive as a group." — Eric ([10:07]).

• Competitive Mindsets:

  • Discussion contrasts aggressive competitors who want to “mop the floor” with rivals against those who see value in nurturing the next generation ([11:54–12:20]).
  • "I want to crush my competition and raise the bar for the industry…" — Jason ([12:21]).
  • "If I don’t have a similar competitor, then it’s hard for me to raise that level ... a healthy competitor is very important." — Jordan ([13:05]).

• Race to the Bottom:

  • Cautions against underpricing services just to win work, emphasizing brand positioning—whether you’re the "Taco Bell" or "Chick Fil A" of landscaping ([13:24–14:21]).

3. The Realities of Business Development

• Growth Playbook:

  • Business development is about filling the sales funnel and tracking success—number of bids, wins, and actual relationship-building ([28:02–30:06]).
  • "A good business developer is out there just packing the top of the funnel with opportunities and only a trickler coming out as wins at the bottom." — Eric ([28:56]).

• Execution > Inspiration:

  • The challenge isn’t finding ideas or advice—it’s implementing them. Attending seminars and networking events is worthless without follow-through ([17:44–22:06]).
  • Memorable Moment/Timestamp: Eric’s Uber story—his savvy driver forgets Eric’s bag, illustrating the danger of business owners focusing on systems and sales at the expense of the actual customer ([17:58–19:32]).
  • "You can be the best business owner in the world by concept, and not think about the customer enough to get his bag out of the car." — Eric ([19:25]).

• Measuring BDM Impact:

  • Setting attainable, trackable goals is crucial; unattainable quotas are demoralizing ([29:41–29:50]).
  • Accept that not every lead or bid should translate to business—sometimes the best outcome is recognizing a mismatch early ([28:59]).

4. Growth, Motivation, and Scaling Pains

• Scaling Up vs. Staying Small:
  • Owners must define their “sweet spot” for business size and be intentional about growth—larger scale brings additional complexity, stress, and risk ([32:49–39:05]).
  • "As a business owner, where do you want to be?" — Eric ([38:10]).
• Offense vs. Defense:
  • In an increasingly competitive market, playing only defense leaves you vulnerable to hungrier, more aggressive newcomers. Business development (offense) is necessary for sustainability ([39:05–40:49]).
  • Quote: "If we don’t start playing offense, our defense is only so strong and we’re going to get whittled down. We’re going to have to play offense and defense at the same time." — Jason ([39:50]).

5. Hands-On: Equipment Talk & Landscape Rodeo

• Showcase of Gravely Innovation:

  • Eric previews Gravely’s major models for the Landscape Rodeo (the Ultra Pro-Stance stand-on, the 260 zero turn, Ovis remote-controlled slope mower, and the HD ZT), including advantages and applications ([44:38–59:12]).
  • The wide-tire Pro-Stance Ultra is highlighted for slope stability—“This thing is just sticking like glue” ([46:30]).
  • Pros and cons of stand-on mowers vs. ride-ons discussed; stand-ons offer ergonomic and safety benefits, especially on slopes ([46:53–49:58]).
  • Ovis Slope Mower: Remote-controlled, flail-mulching, ideal for hazardous, steep terrain ([53:57–57:14]).
  • HD ZT mower: Built for the serious homeowner or light commercial use—"That mower will last a homeowner with five acres through generations." — Eric ([58:57]).

• Analogy:

  • Jordan likens business development style to fishing (waiting for leads) vs. hunting (proactively chasing business). "Some of the most productive fishing has been via hunting to go get it and not just waiting..." ([42:33–43:30]).

• Landscape Rodeo Event Tease:

  • The upcoming event (Feb 19–20) is themed as a “high-energy, hands-on showdown”—barrier-racing, blower soccer, mower demos ([44:21, 65:02]).
  • Gravely is a Platinum Sponsor, bringing innovative equipment for attendees to test-drive.

6. Final Thoughts: Customer Focus & The Circle of Life

• Focus on retention, relationship-building, and knowing when to say no to the wrong clients or markets ([41:35]).
• “If we don’t have a customer, we don’t have a business. You have a hobby.” — Jordan ([22:26]).
• The segment closes with a call for healthy competition and mentorship in the industry: "Go succeed and mop the floor with our competition and then nurture the young ones to be healthy competitors." — Jordan ([66:35]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You can have your company, and I can be literally three miles away from you and have my company, and we can thrive… and be good business owners and thrive as a group." — Eric ([10:07])
• “If you can, you do. If you can’t, you write about it.” — Eric quoting a cliché about business writers vs. doers ([20:38])
• “A good business developer is out there just packing the top of the funnel with opportunities and only a trickler coming out as wins at the bottom.” — Eric ([28:56])
• "If we don’t have a customer, we don’t have a business. You have a hobby." — Jordan ([22:26])
• On choosing between scaling or coasting: "As a business owner, where do you want to be?" — Eric ([38:10])

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:16–03:33] – Eric recounts first meeting Jordan, and his Aaron’s/Gravely history
• [09:28–10:07] – Reflections on the “Grow” conference and collaborative industry mindset
• [13:24–14:21] – “Race to the bottom” discussion: Pricing wars and market positioning
• [17:58–19:32] – Eric’s Uber story: The gulf between business acumen and customer service
• [28:02–30:06] – What makes a good Business Development Manager (BDM)
• [39:05–40:49] – The argument for playing offense in business
• [44:38–59:12] – Gravely product showcase & event talk: Pro-Stance Ultra, 260, Ovis, ZT HD
• [53:57–57:14] – Ovis Slope Mower: capabilities, applications, and competitive advantages
• [65:02–66:35] – Event wrap-up & final words on growth, competition, and mentorship

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Final Takeaways

• Real growth is not just about increasing sales, but setting the right goals, being deliberate about your business’ identity (offense vs. defense, hunting vs. fishing), and never neglecting the customer.
• Healthy competition and cooperation can—and should—coexist in the green industry.
• Hands-on equipment knowledge and demo opportunities (like the Rodeo) are crucial for staying current in the rapidly evolving landscaping business.

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Contact for Gravely Demo/Info:
Eric (Gravely BDM): 813-765-4288

Landscape Rodeo Event:
thelandscaperodeo.com
Podcast: Green Side Up

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Whether you’re a grizzled owner or just greening your thumbs, this episode is packed with wisdom, laughs, and actionable insights for thriving in the wild terrain of landscaping entrepreneurship.

Transcript

[Jason Lee]

Welcome to Green side Up, the perfect podcast for small business entrepreneurs looking to cultivate success in the landscaping and tree care industry. Join Jason Lee, a seasoned landscaper, and Jordan Upkavage, a true tree whisperer, as they share their wealth of experience and insights to navigate the challenges of growing your business. Get ready to hear real life stories, practical solutions, and invaluable advice that will empower you to thrive amidst the chaos of entrepreneurship. And now, let's keep the Green side Up with your host, Jason Lee and Jordan Upkevage.

Welcome back to this week's episode of the Green side Up podcast. Jordan, we're in person again.

[Jordan Upkavage]

We are. It's morning. The sun is up. This is not a 5, 10 in the morning recording. The sun is officially up. It is 8:15 in the morning. We're in the bunker of love. Jason. It is Valentine's Day. We're in the bunker. It's too early to have a beer as we normally do in the afternoon. We have hearts hanging from the ceilings. There's red, pink and white things and little tapestries all over the place. We got napkins. We are following the wake of Galentines and honey in the neighborhood. Moms came over here and clucked around

[Jason Lee]

last weekend and as we're recording in the daylight this morning. We were not recording last night in the daylight. We were recording last night with the not our finest hour podcast until, I

[Jordan Upkavage]

don't know, 10ish is 1015, 1030. When we turned it off, we were with the Canadians. It was we, we were learned information that they are at negative 77 degrees Fahrenheit. Fahrenheit. Negative 77 degrees Fahrenheit. And I was telling them that, well, my wife was in the backyard in a bikini last weekend and they thought it was crazy. Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

And I think that they're nuts because they're gonna like, people die.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Totally.

[Jason Lee]

I just think that we would die.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Well, Jason, we have a. An in person guest, a tall statured man named Eric. Eric used to be a stranger who I bumped into in an airport, of all places. And that was. When did we go to Kentucky? When was it? Quip?

[Eric]

October, I think it was.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay, so I met Eric in October in the airport. We had a conversation. Fast forward to today in February. He comes walking in my front door and I give him a hug. I was like, hey, dude, what's up? So Eric, welcome to the show.

[Eric]

My goodness, what a treat this is. I couldn't be more excited to hang out in the bunker with you guys today. This Is crazy.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. So, Eric, you. The way we met in the Louisville, Kentucky Airport is we were leaving the equip Expo.

[Eric]

That's right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And it was probably Sunday. Is that when it got over?

[Eric]

It was probably maybe a Friday, Saturday, something at the end of the week. It was a long week.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Whatever. The conference is over.

[Eric]

That's right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Everyone's going to the airport. You can. You can kind of pick who's been at a trade show. That looks like a beat dog.

[Eric]

Exactly.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So I think, I don't know if our flight was 10 minutes delayed or whatever. And I'm standing there, I got my backpack on, and I'm looking at you like, hey, you look like you got beat for three.

[Eric]

The same look to us. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I was like, you here for the Expo? He's like, yes, sir, I was here for the Expo. And then we got to chatting and I told you I live in Tampa and. And you're here in Brandon, right?

[Eric]

That's right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And then you told me what you did for a living. So break that down.

[Eric]

I work for Gravely Commercial Mowers, which is the commercial wing of Aaron's company. Ahrens is a name that's been around since 19. I'll butcher this, but I'm gonna say 1916, they started making farm equipment in the basement, the Ahrens basement in Wisconsin. And we are literally, we are a fifth generation Aaron's owned and operated company today. So we're still family family owned.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So is that the last name? Aaron's is still Aaron's company.

[Eric]

That's right. Aaron's is the last name. And it used to just be Aaron's Mowers. Right. But now Aaron's company equals Gravely equals Aaron's snow machines equals our hospitality division, equals our rapid care parts and service division. And so there's now a lot of encompassing that Aaron's family brand. So it's Aaron's company.

[Jordan Upkavage]

What's the hospitality?

[Eric]

Oh, my goodness. We have in Brilliant, Wisconsin, an Olympic Nordic training center. Holy smokes. Yeah, the whole Olympic team was just up there.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, wow.

[Eric]

For the getting trained. They're the ones that do the. I'm gonna butcher this again. The speed skating diathlon or something where you cross country ski and then shoot and then. I mean, it's incredible, right? It's incredible. The Aarons family is so generous. I mean, they opened that up place up to the employees. There's six plants, manufacturing plants up there, corporate offices up there. Brilliant, Wisconsin is about 45 minutes south of Green Bay. For some reference on where that Is. Yeah. And man, there's employees. 50 year employees up there.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Good lord.

[Eric]

Yeah, they just. They just. They. We had a few 50 year employees, had their anniversary and they were gifted some. Some Gravely side by sides as a thank you for your 50 year anniversary.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Like the buggies. The side by side buggies.

[Eric]

Like the four by four. Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

You can drive around and do a little mudding and.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah, These things are. They're all work. But yeah, it's so just super, super generous. Amazing. I'm a fanboy, if you can't tell. I grew up in Chicago area. And Aaron's is a big name up north. Right. So not so much in Florida. We could talk about that later. But growing up riding on Aaron's mowers. And that's a thing. It was a thing. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's like I'm an international harvester guy or. Okay, you're an Aaron's guy. So is. Is Aaron's privately traded employee owned? Is their company stock?

[Eric]

There's a board of directors, but it's privately held company.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay, so is there employee stock options or is it not there?

[Eric]

I don't know.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, okay.

[Eric]

If there is, I haven't. So I'll say no. I mean, if it was like, that's not something that. When you get hired, who's your. Here's your portfolio.

[Jason Lee]

It's not like public sanding out.

[Eric]

Yeah, right.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah. Stocks.

[Eric]

This is for you. This is for you. No, so I didn't know.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I mean, I don't know how big it is. Like, there's a tree service. Davey tree service.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Well, they're employee owned. It's like a whole different deal. But you can like buy stocks and do that sort of deal. It's kind of over my head. So Aaron's is the last name.

[Eric]

Aaron's is the last name. Yep. And then Dan Aarons is his. I don't even know. Great, great, great, great, great grandfather started the whole thing in this basement.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Must be a great guy.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

So when did Gravely come into the mix with the Aarons?

[Eric]

Go. Gravely's been making equipment almost as long. I think they were made in, I don't know, Kentucky, possibly. And Aaron's purchased the gravely brand 20 or so years ago and became our commercial division. And it was such a. There's so much heritage with. Even with the Gravely brand. You know, they've been. Gravelies have been around since early 1900s as well. There was a big manufacturing plant and had Gravely on the smokestack. You know, just really Cool old stuff. And, you know, Aaron's family was. Was driving through the. The town. They, hey, you know what? We want those letters. So they boop, boop, boop, boop. Popped all the Gravely letters off the smokestack. And now they're in the museum in Bronheon. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So was Gravely a competitor? Competitor in the same market space of geography, or were they not a competitor because they were more residential or commercial or how did that work?

[Eric]

Gravely really cut its teeth in snow throwing snow machines. And anyone who's been up north knows that they were called the king of snow.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Gravely.

[Eric]

Gravely. No, I'm Aaron's. Aarons is the king of snow.

[Jordan Upkavage]

They were the snow machines.

[Eric]

The snow machines. That's right. And, you know, single stage, two stage.

[Jordan Upkavage]

All these incredible homeowner ones and giant ones. Yeah, they had it all.

[Eric]

Yeah. And Gravely was more of the walk behind, walking down the plow row, tilling and agricultural. Okay. And so that grew into, you know, lawn care equipment. Well, Aaron's was also doing lawn care equipment. And then the acquisition, and now we're using that Gravely name as the commercial products.

[Jason Lee]

I remember back in student career days when we'd go to the college competition, which is now nclc.

[Eric]

Nclc.

[Jason Lee]

National Collegiate Landscape Competition.

[Eric]

Next month. We'll be there. Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

Gravely. Gravely was all. I remember getting the Gravely hat or. Yeah. I mean, so it's been. It's been around for a while.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And they're cool colors. I mean, you got red and I mean, my company's color scheme is red and black. Independent tree service.

[Eric]

Right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

That's a damn good looking lawnmower there, I tell you.

[Jason Lee]

So, Eric, now obviously you said you're growing up there. Gravy's going to be at nclc. You guys do. Obviously you do a lot of events in your position with the company. And I think what you were just at GCSAA and you were at another event. Grow.

[Eric]

Yeah. So. Yes, that's right. This week, Dallas was a grow. You know, without getting too specific and plugging Marty Grunder's company. It's a great opportunity where the green industry comes and networks and peer groups together. And this whole three day marathon is about how do I become a better business owner or a better business developer or a better shop manager. And there's 100 breakout sessions and there's keynote speakers and all of the. I think there was 1400 people there.

[Jason Lee]

Wow.

[Eric]

This week from around the country. And they really are part of peer groups. And what are you doing? What are you doing? And there are a Couple of awesome takeaways from that is Gravely's been a big sponsor of that for many, many years, since it's really inception. The biggest takeaway, when you talk to these folks from, you know, they might be from New Hampshire or New Mexico or Arizona or Tampa, or they have the same problems, and it's usually labor, you know, costs and how do I manage these things? And their biggest takeaway is, look, I'm not alone. You know, this isn't my problem. This is everybody's problem, which makes me feel a little better about it, that I'm not doing something wrong. How can we get together and learn how to do this better? The green industry is incredible in that it is so homogenous. Like, there's enough work for everybody. You can have your company, and I can be literally three miles away from you and have my company, and we can thrive and we don't have to pop each other's tires at night and key the trucks because we're mad at each other. We can live here together and be. And be good business owners and thrive as a. As a group.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And in a way, like we were recording last night with these Canadians, and there's three different business owners that were on the other side of the Zoom call, and me and Jason are on our side. And one of the guys, same age as I am, he goes, I want to take my competition and I want to mop the floor with them. I want to crush him. He goes, that starting out landscaper with the pickup truck and dump trailer, I want to put him out of business and make them bleed. I wish him well, but not in the landscape industry. I want to own all of it.

[Eric]

And I was like, oh, my goodness.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Well, I am a male full of testosterone and aggression, and I like to eat meat, and I can feel the same way with my competition. And then one of the other guys that's in his 50s, he goes, Man, I want to take these kids. I want to nurture these kids. So it was the exact opposite. It was like the I want to kill everybody to then the grandpa that wants to raise the grandkids.

[Eric]

I love that.

[Jason Lee]

I can appreciate both points of view.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Totally.

[Jason Lee]

I want to crush my competition and raise the bar for the industry, but that's it. I personally, I want to crush my competition or at least gain enough market share where I can do what I want in my business, but at the same point, going to events like Grow or, you know, any other conference like that where everyone's working together and learning and raising the bar for the industry. My thing is, even with the. Even with us doing the podcast, right? If we can share our experiences and help somebody, help somebody with the business, then we're. We're helping our industry.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I want to. I want to crush them and put

[Eric]

them out of business.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Or maybe not out of business, but I just want them to know that I'm hurting.

[Eric]

They need to hurt.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So listen, I just want to squeeze them. But I like what you're saying. My point is healthy competition is excellent.

[Eric]

Yes.

[Jordan Upkavage]

If I don't have a similar competitor, then it's hard for me to raise that level. I mean, if I'm constantly bidding against ding a ling over here, the money's going to be separate, and there's nothing to compare of similar quality to. So a healthy competitor is very important.

[Eric]

And that was some comments this week. Was, you know, there. Some people are considering maintenance, which is, you know, what we do. Landscape maintenance is just a race to the bottom. Like, what. What do you mean by that? Well, everybody is just throwing on a cheaper price to get the business, and so the cheapest price wins. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not the case. That shouldn't be your business model, because it isn't healthy and it does nothing to help grow our industry.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Well, it could be your business model if that's what you want. Right. If you want to be Taco Bell, be Taco Bell. If you want to be Chick Fil A, we'll be Chick Fil A. Right. It's okay to be the discount TJ Maxx of landscaping. If that's where you want to live, that's cool. Or if you want to be Neiman Marcus, well, that's cool, too. You just got to figure out where your values are, what you want to do, and do it the best you can.

[Eric]

Who do you want to be?

[Jordan Upkavage]

I would prefer not to be the best price person. That's not where I want to live, but there's a space for that. For instance, the guy that cuts my grass is the price guy.

[Eric]

You know, it's perfect.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And I don't talk to him. And I pay him every six months and pay him in full and in advance because it's too cheap to write a check. Like, 35 bucks a month. Are you paying, like, like, 11 a cut? Insulting.

[Eric]

Since your high school neighbor.

[Jordan Upkavage]

That was some dude that was cutting my neighbor's yard. Like, how much for just the front?

[Jason Lee]

But he probably does every yard on the street, right?

[Eric]

Perfect.

[Jason Lee]

And it doesn't take him that long.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I know.

[Jason Lee]

So it probably works.

[Eric]

For him.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Well, he must run such a poor business.

[Eric]

That's a good point.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I write the check to his name. So of course there's no tax. Right. So there's embezzlement there. And then he does. He forgets to invoice me. So he's cut my yard for like four months and I've never paid him. And then I was like, antonio, do I owe you money? I don't know. So that's why I started paying him six months at a time because I'm more concerned about paying my bill than

[Eric]

he is for money. That's a good guy. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So I am promoting your problem, Jason.

[Eric]

Thank you.

[Jason Lee]

That's what we're trying to prevent. But that's why.

[Jordan Upkavage]

But I'm not going to pay a professional to cut my front yard.

[Eric]

It ain't going to happen.

[Jason Lee]

Well, going and having people. I operate and grew a business for years and years and years and was not as profitable as I could be because I didn't know some things.

[Eric]

Oh, sure.

[Jason Lee]

And so now if we can help people learn things as they're starting out and avoid being that low cost price, unless that's your model and you want to do that. But if you're doing that unintentionally and just because you don't know and you just started a business with no plan like I did, then I want to. And I think our industry is trying to prevent that race to the bottom.

[Eric]

Right.

[Jason Lee]

Because it's real and it can even be from. And it starts with a new person starting out like or Antonio cutting Jordan's grass or Yardenique is a top 100 company on landscape.

[Eric]

You bet.

[Jason Lee]

They came into the Florida market last year and blitzkrieg all of commercial properties from top to bottom across the state. They lasted six months. They bid work at $30aman hour. They destroyed our market, at least locally in Gainesville, they destroyed our market price. So now everyone in Gainesville thinks that we should be paying this price even though they failed at their service and all these things. But now it's going to take us two to three years to recover from that, you know, race down to the bottom. So it is real. It's.

[Eric]

It's real.

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[Jason Lee]

Grow.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And the resources to grow a better business or maybe run a business smarter. And I don't want to cast a shadow.

[Eric]

I'm going to tell a practical story that happened to me yesterday. So grow was right. We talked about all those incredible things. The breakout meetings, how to be a better business owner, being cognizant what your ebitda. Why is all that important? I'm in an Uber going from the hotel to the airport. Going to DFW yesterday and Dallas, if you'd ever been there. Crazy traffic's unbelievable. So I'm just so grateful to be in an Uber. And I put my bag in the back, he hits the button, closes the door, I'm in there. And the driver's super chatty, great, fantastic guy, right? But he knew his business forward and back, up and down, how to be the best Uber driver there was, where he needs to be to get to be most profitable, the times he needs to work, who he needs to call on. How did he get to the next level? I mean, he was just dialed in with his business. And I was so impressed with this guy. Like, man, this guy, he's on it. You are gonna be, you're gonna own this company one day, my friend. Or you're have a fleet of cars. And we got to the airport. Okay, thanks. It was great. I hop out and I go walk around the back to get my bag. And he takes off. He takes my bags in the back of the car.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, no.

[Eric]

So thank goodness we're at the gate. And so he has to, you know, 10ft forward, he has to stop and wait for somebody. I hustle up to the car, I knock on the back and he opens up. Oh, sorry, my bad. Take my bag and thank you. Appreciate it. I go back, go inside. I'm like, man, how you can be the best business owner in the world by concept and not think about the customer enough to get his bag out of the car.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah, Eric, that's Perfect. That warmed up my point. So all of these different tools and seminars to grow a better business, you have grow. Leanscaper, Jeffrey Scott, Tony Bass, James. Any. Any ding a Ling. On YouTube, there's so much resource on how to do it. And you go to this thing and you pay them money and you buy an airline ticket and you get a hotel and you make friends and you do all this stuff and you're like watching it and you're like, yeah, it's like a pep rally. The hardest part is to come home and then fricking do it. It is so easy to watch. Like, there's almost too much out there of teaching and people. I hate talking. No action. I just. I don't like it. I would rather have no talk in all action.

[Eric]

I get that.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Can't freaking stand it. But there's so much talk and people like, well, here's what you need to do. And well, you know what? It's. Go out and do it. And it's really freaking hard. It's really hard to try to start implementing things and not just living in a fantasy.

[Eric]

So this might be controversial, but I heard this years and years ago about sports writers, right? Like, people hate sports writers. You know, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And it was like somebody said regarding sports writers and athletes, if you can, you do. If you can't, you write about it.

[Jordan Upkavage]

They have the same thing about teachers, Right. And professors.

[Eric]

And so it is you. You go to these things and it is exactly that you leave so jacked up, man. I'm gonna conquer the world. And then you forget to let the guy get his bag out of the back. Yeah. Like, what good was all that if I didn't even think of the customer? Hey, get your bag out. Thank you.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Did he ask for the five star review on Uber?

[Eric]

Of course.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, did he verbally ask for it?

[Eric]

No, but he told me how to get to it. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So he checked that box?

[Eric]

Yeah. He was very thorough and he was showing me the screen and all the different. And it was amazing. This guy was so dialed in to his profession and his craft, and he was absolutely squeezing every last nickel out of everything to get where he wanted to be. And he drove away with my bag. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

He needs to have, like, the bullet points of. Hello, my name is David. I'm your Uber driver. Confirm name. Confirmed. Destination. How's the temperature? All the way down to the last of. Okay, we're at your destination. Let's double check for bags. Like, is there a Baby in the back seat, you know, he needs an add an extra bullet point.

[Eric]

Exactly. Yeah. But so that was, that was just a little glimpse of wow. You know, we can go through all these things, we can get all the tools, we can have all this knowledge, but if we're not implementing it and thinking of the customer, then it's all for not.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Because if the customer dies, we're out of business.

[Eric]

Out of business.

[Jordan Upkavage]

If we don't have a customer, we don't have a business.

[Eric]

No business.

[Jordan Upkavage]

You have a hobby.

[Eric]

We're doing it for a hobby.

[Jason Lee]

So Eric, how long have you been with Gravely?

[Eric]

I've been with Gravely for just over a year. Right. Like I said, I've been a fanboy my whole life. So funny story, prior to this, I was a business developer for a large publicly traded landscaper in Polk county in Florida. Shout out to fans of Sheriff Judd. Yeah, we love it out there.

[Jordan Upkavage]

That's the home of Publix.

[Eric]

Yes, all of that. So I really cut my teeth in the green industry working for that organization, which was fantastic. Fantastic. And prior to that it was selling building materials, some composite decking and such. Another. A family owned company. Love the family owned companies. I'm just a big fan. So you know, you get on LinkedIn and you're just, you know.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Well, what's the position? You said Developer manager.

[Eric]

Today's position is called. It's a bdm, a business development manager.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay. And is that the same hat for the other two companies?

[Eric]

It was okay. It was, I don't know. So I've all of a sudden become a specialist here in business, developing business. So I cover the states of Florida, you know, half of Georgia, a lot of South Carolina, most of Alabama, those kind. And there's other me's running around the country and my role is to take equipment to landscapers that might not have heard about the brand or had a bad experience years ago or didn't know we had a brand new standup that has a 1000cc Cowie engine on it. They didn't know you could all these things and educate and spend time sharing equipment, sharing knowledge and just sharing experiences and growing the brand. Then on the other side, there's district managers that work for Aaron's company that really live at the dealer level. And those guys are looking at inventory and helping with sales and mow the distance and advertising. So my world is more.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So the district manager would manage one office or more than one retail office.

[Eric]

Oh my goodness. Some of them have, you know, 40, 50. We have, we have Our dealer network is nationwide.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay.

[Eric]

We're global. Right? We're global manufacturers. Okay. And so each district manager might be like, oh, I have all of south Florida. I have my man shout out to Eric Spivey. He's like, I four up to Jacksonville and halfway to Pensacola. And Bonnie, she's from Ocala.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I know that name.

[Jason Lee]

I know that.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Is that Choo Choo?

[Eric]

No, no, Spivey. He had a. Yeah, you would. Him and his brother had a. A dealership in Ocala.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah, I've driven past it or been there or something. I don't know.

[Eric]

Good folks. So, yeah, yeah, Spivey and those guys deal with that dealer. What's your inventory look like? How's all those things? And I'm not removed from that, but I like to help grow from a little lower level. And then when it's time to purchase something, we pair them up with the right dealer.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And.

[Eric]

And if that landscaper doesn't know who that dealer is, then we make introductions, and we get everybody on the same page. And here's how we move forward.

[Jordan Upkavage]

You don't. Let's say, I want to buy a mower. I don't say, hey, Eric, will you sell me a mower? You're not getting a commission off of my purchase. I would assume you would say, all right, I'm gonna put you in touch with Spivey or whoever, and you're gonna buy the mower from them.

[Eric]

That's right. So we would be. You know, it's a conversation. What are you looking for? What do you wanna do with it? You know? Okay, well, here's. We got some great options, you know, would you like to ride one? And we get to the point. Yeah, I love this thing. What do I do now? Now we hook you up with.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So you're visionary, right? It's the relationship visionary.

[Jason Lee]

It's a relationship building.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah. Now we. We hook you up with a grass pro or a Choo Choo or a less of Tampa Bay or, you know, if I could say every. Every dealer we have, I'd. We'd be here for a long time. And they're all amazing, you know, Crystal Tractor or Mowers Inc. Or, you know,

[Jordan Upkavage]

so it's interesting, I didn't know you were a business development manager because I didn't look at the business card that you handed me on the airplane because I just saved you in my phone as Gravely aired.

[Eric]

You know, that's the world we live in.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So here's the question, and then I'm going to back it up with a why? I'm asking the question for a business to start a business development manager position that is going to take overhead to pay for with the purpose of that person will bring in more revenue than what the payroll is.

[Eric]

Sure.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Simple business. Okay, so how do you measure the difference that you're making? It would seem very hard to measure your difference unless you have a widget. And the reason I'm asking this question is I just hired a business development manager.

[Eric]

Okay. Congratulations.

[Jason Lee]

As did I. We're both doing that simultaneously.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Two weeks ago.

[Eric]

Very good.

[Jordan Upkavage]

To go out.

[Eric]

Very good.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And spend the time that you're spending right now. I don't have time to spend where I'm at. So that's.

[Eric]

Absolutely.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So I asked the question and then I can tell you more about what I'm doing and what Jason's doing and maybe you have some super cool wisdom. So how does that work? Like, how do you measure your deliverables to like, validate your position?

[Eric]

Yeah. So there's goals, Right? We all have goals. And I am the worst at being like, hey, it's New Year's Eve. What are your goals for next year? I am the worst goal setter on the face of the earth. I set goals and then, you know, a day later, like, they're all shot. The important thing is to understand what do you want to get out of this business developer? I want to grow sales. Okay. Or I want to have a bigger clientele or I want to have, you know, and if it's I want to grow sales. Where did we start? Where are we after a year, after two years, you know, keeping an eye on what is this person bringing in. And, you know, so it's a big funnel. Right. A good business developer is out there just packing the top of the funnel with opportunities and only a trickler coming out as wins at the bottom.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Because you might find that you're not the answer for that person.

[Eric]

Absolutely.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Which is a win. So you didn't spend more time on them.

[Eric]

Absolutely. Or you might find that your services are overpriced. Or we're not winning as many. You know, we bid on 50 jobs this month and we won three. What's going on? So we can evaluate where we're at. So it's things like how much is going in the funnel, how many bids are going out. If you want your business developer to be super active and be throwing out bids like crazy. Okay. I need you to put. I'm making numbers up. I need you to put out 250 bids a month. Okay, that's my number. How are we doing against that? Oh, we're crushing that. Or that's a real struggle, and here's why. And then we can reevaluate, but maybe adjust the goal. Exactly.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Make sure it's attainable.

[Eric]

That's exactly right. Unattainable goals are absolutely worth it. That is the worst thing you can do.

[Jordan Upkavage]

If anything, they're. They're going to kill. They're going to disincentivize.

[Eric]

Oh, my gosh. You're like, where did this random number come from? Is this. Anyway, okay, so then that's one. That's one measure. How much is going into the funnel, and another measure is how much is coming out of the funnel, which are the jobs that we've won. You know, how much money, how. How much bigger is that trickle now than it was before?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yep.

[Eric]

And those are, those are just some really quick key indicators of, of. Of what is a business developer doing? How many events are you going to. We need you to attend some events because if nobody knows who we are, it's going to be in the landscape world. It was much easier to sell a landscape maintenance package to folks that knew you and you weren't like, hi, I'm Eric. Here's my proposal. Let's go to work. It's like, well, I came in and There were also 17 other proposals. And they've been working with these other companies for years.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Trust in the goodwill. And they don't know who you are.

[Eric]

So you need to get out there and meet these people and let them know who you are and what it is you stand for and what you have to offer. And that can be a long game. Right. That's not like, hey, I met you yesterday. We're in.

[Jason Lee]

Could be years.

[Eric]

Yeah, absolutely. My biggest sell at this company took several years. Took several years.

[Jason Lee]

So we were members of, you know, going back 10 years ago, we were members of the North Central Florida Apartment association for our landscape maintenance division. So we were members of that. And maybe, maybe my salesperson went to one meeting, one luncheon, and other than that, we didn't go to the trade shows. We didn't participate. We got a few properties just from being on the list and getting phone calls. We got a couple jobs over the years, but now we're evaluating it and we got some new team members and we have this business development position. It's like, hey, like, are you guys in the apartment Association? I was like, ah, no, we got out of that. He's like, man. He's like, I've sold x amount of work through that over the amount of years. Like, we really need to do that.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

He's like, and you. But you know, you go to this event and that event and that event and it's like, oh, well, yeah, let's do that.

[Eric]

That sounds like a great plan.

[Jason Lee]

You know, it's a very simple thing. You just have to put it into action and something.

[Eric]

That's right.

[Jason Lee]

We weren't doing that efficiently.

[Eric]

And as business owners, you can't wear every hat. You can't. I mean, you can try, right? But every hat's not going to fit, right? It's not. You know, you can't. You can't. You've got to have people that you entrust with this and this and this. And yet you're overseeing the umbrella, right? This is your umbrella, this is your piece of piece. But you literally will kill yourself and you will not do the best job possible if you're trying to do everything, especially as you grow. Okay, I can do that. I'm a million dollar company, I can do that, right? But now to get from one to two, I need some help. To get to two to four, we need to bring out a bunch more people. To get to 5 to go from 5 million to a $7 million company, you've got quite a few folks helping you along the way, and those are your business developers, your maintenance people, your oper, because you just can't literally do it all.

[Jordan Upkavage]

That's the exact spot that we're in, right? Where high fours, just under five and we're like, well, what do we coast here? Right? That's okay. You got to find the sweet spot. Coasting there is fine. You live a happy life, you provide for your family. The world goes round and around. So whether it's $700,000 or if it's 400 grand, it doesn't matter, you know, Find what works for you and your sweet spot, right? But I'm in that spot of Eric. I don't set goals ever. I don't. I just wake up and like to kick ass.

[Eric]

We're a lot alike, you know, for

[Jordan Upkavage]

instance, I went, I got a personal trainer and I go work out with them on Mondays and Thursdays. Those are the two days my kids go to school. I take them to school, then I hit the gym immediately afterwards, shower, go to work. So if I pay money to the personal trainer, I'm gonna show up. So if I pay money on Monday, I'm more likely to go on Tuesday, more likely to go on Wednesday. Because I'm paying that guy on Thursday. So it's a straight relationship that I have with money. It's not about, like looking fit, like living longer. It's a relationship with money.

[Eric]

100%.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I got. The personal trainer goes, all right, Jordan, well, what are your goals? You got like a vacation that you're trying to get sexy for? I was like, no, dude, I don't have any goals. I just want to trick my wife into sleeping with me from time to time and, like, be healthy. And he goes, oh, well, that's unique. You know, most people. Hey, good morning, sweetie. So anyways, yeah, I don't, I don't know where I'm going with this tangent about not setting goals. Oh. But in the business, right, we're somewhere between four and a half and five and we're, we're chugging along. And I want to grow because it's fun and, you know, build people into better people than when I employed them, made them better Americans. And then now I'm in that spot of why? Well, I have a salesman. I have me selling. My dad does some sales. We have an ops manager. We got a bunch of crew leaders. My sister's in the office on the phone. I can only do so many sales. I do. Out of the three salesmen, me, my salesman and my dad. I sell the most out of those. That takes a lot of time.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And I want more, More commercial work. I have, I think I figured out the residential. Right. We're pretty good at that. But it's the commercial opportunities that are in a way easier to manage because I can have a crew parked there for multiple days.

[Eric]

Absolutely.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Then the tons of one offs. If I'm going to come to Eric's house and trim his trees, my crew might be on site for an hour and a half. Well, that's a lot to manage. Then they got to go to this two hour job. So I got three things to individually manage versus one big deal. Like an apartment or a business place.

[Eric]

Yeah. You know, a 600 home community. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yep. So that's why where they planted all

[Eric]

the oaks too close to the driveways.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yes. Perfect. Let's structurally prune them for the next 10 years and then we'll cut them down because they're lifting your sidewalks. And we'll fertilize them along the way. Ultimate business model. Cut them down and plant new ones. It's a subscription plant. Healthcare seems to be all the buzz in the green industry right now. Are you like many business owners that don't know how or where to start or are you looking to add a new tool to your PHC toolbox?

[Jason Lee]

Mitigro is an innovative product that focuses on root and soil health. A different approach than loading up the ground with more npk. Mitigro is a blend of mycorrhizae, fungi, bacteria, vitamin B and iba, which is a rooting hormone.

[Jordan Upkavage]

The concept is simple. More roots equals a healthier and more robust plant. This simple concept is exactly why both Jason and I have incorporated mitigro into our PhD program. Deep Root applications on my end for mature or struggling trees, soil drenches and spray applications for when Jason installs trees and installs new sod.

[Jason Lee]

Give Mitigro a shot for yourself. Their product is easy to apply and no special licenses are needed. Visit mitigrow pro.com to learn more. That's M I T O G-R-O-W P R O.com so that's why I did

[Jordan Upkavage]

the the whole BDM of I Need help. I can't do this. I can only, you know, ignore my family for so long and work the whole time.

[Eric]

Yep, absolutely. Interestingly, going back to my I know this isn't the Eric show this morning, but here's another one going back to my days selling composite decking. We did a lot of work with marine contractors and you know, in Florida, composite decking is everybody's not building a deck on their house, right? We're flat. We don't have a billion two story beautiful decks. We got docks, there's a lot of water and boom. There. Yeah. So we're building gorgeous docks with this composite decking. Stuff was amazing. And then I bumped into a fellow, we became really good friends. And he was at the same point you are okay.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And he said, in the dock business.

[Eric]

In the dock business, he says, I can either grow or stay where I am. And he's looking at all the other companies around him growing. And he got a little jaded and he says, if I want to grow, I gotta hire more people. They gotta get more sales. Now I gotta get more equipment, another barge, another crew to run that barge. And to pay for that, I need to get more sales. And now I got so many more sales. Now I got to get another barge. And he says, where does it stop?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Wherever you want it to.

[Eric]

And I said, that's up to you. You know, that's up to you. Absolutely, 100%. As a business owner, where do you want to be?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. Is it because it's a headache, every one of those, or it's a responsibility, it's a liability, it's a privilege. You could look out however you want, but it's another potential phone call. You know, the bigger you are, the more surface area you have. Oh, yeah. For success, for risk, problems to solve.

[Eric]

You bet.

[Jordan Upkavage]

You just got to figure out if are you. And it's, it's interesting because some people are motivated to grow for money. Some people are motivated to grow for ego. Right? Some people are motivated to grow, let's say myself for maybe both or I really don't know why I'm motivated to grow. And I just wake up like, well,

[Eric]

what the hell else am I gonna do?

[Jordan Upkavage]

I guess I'm gonna work hard today because I like it. And I'm kind of growing by accident because, well, what else am I going to do with my time, right? You know, I don't know.

[Jason Lee]

Good point for us. I mean, we're adding in the position as a. We've gotten to a point we need to grow in our business to be more profitable. And that's just what our budget tells us. But it's also, at least we've been in business for 15 years. We've got a decent reputation in Gainesville. We've got commercial maintenance leads that come to us. And we've just kind of gotten. We've fallen into the trap of we just accept whatever comes in. We did that work. Whatever we win, we win. And it's great. It's gotten us to where we're at that. But it's like as we get, as we have other companies that are growing and are pushing out into the marketplace, we're being out competed on the offense. So we're just sitting here playing defense while other people are playing offense. So at some point, if we don't start playing offense, our defense is only so strong and we're going to get whittled down. We're going to play offense and defense at the same time.

[Eric]

Absolutely real. And in the fact that if nothing else, know that your competitors are playing offense. They are. And if you're just like, hey, no, we're settled in. Everything's life is good. Look around. Because there, there's others business owners just like yourselves that are like, they had that flip switch, that switch flip, like,

[Jordan Upkavage]

I'm gonna go eat his food.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And so when you, when you say playing offense, they're gonna be like, chad,

[Eric]

Chad, I'm gonna crush him.

[Jason Lee]

I'm gonna mop the floor with sky frog landscape. Yeah. He said today, sir, blood started coming from his child.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I wish you lived down here, I'd hire you. So when you say playing offense, you mean marketing or going after it and getting it?

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, actually. Actually having that outward facing. I mean, I never really did it. No one in our business ever has ever really gone out and done business development or had an outside sales type mentality. It's always just been whatever comes in. Design, build residential passive leads.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

I mean, besides me, when we were doing build construction, like, yes, I would go hunt some bid build jobs when I was doing that. But besides that portion of our business and history, like commercial maintenance, we've never go out and done that. So I think especially in our marketplace in Florida, if we want to grow to where we want to be, we need to.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

You know, and we don't have to go crazy. It's also. It's also, if you go and do that, and sometimes it's probably, you know, it's probably like doing drugs. It's like, okay, well, once we start doing it, let's keep going and going and going. And I've also. We've also laid out the plan of we can only grow by so much per year and keep the quality of work we want to. Like, we've grown rapidly in my course of business and then done some work that wasn't super great. I said, so now as we grow with a plan, I want to grow with that plan, do the best work that we can, and then retain those customers. Because if we do that, then everything gets way easier.

[Eric]

Retention is huge. Retention is a huge component because you can easily lose more than you bring in a year. Easily. Easily. And before you blink, you're like, oh, what happened this year? It was a hard year. Why? Oh, we lost this, this, this, and this. And we only brought in this, this, and this.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, yeah. But you also don't want to win the turds.

[Eric]

Nope.

[Jordan Upkavage]

The business that you were talking about that came into Florida for six months and they were betting everything too low. It's a model to lose money and go out of business. So it's interesting, though. I've never thought about this until you guys were talking. Somebody said, going out and hunting it. Well, and I'm thinking, I'm not a hunter, I'm a fisherman. And I've sat on the reef anchored up with a bag of chum and my live bait or my. I cut bait and I'm catching some grouper and snapper and what have you. But some of the most fun and most success that I've had is when I'm hunting fish.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And I'm in the water with a spear gun. Okay? So now, and here's a for instance, it was wintertime. I'm in Weeki Wachee, and I'm in nine feet of water, cold as hell in a wetsuit, cold as piss. And I swim down, I got a flashlight. It's in the middle of the day, but I got a flashlight because you got to look under rocks at where these groupers are. Are bait up, way up under the rocks. So I'm swimming down there and I stick my light in like, oh, there's a damn grouper. Hey, buddy. I plug them right in the forehead. And the damn fish. It's a 31 inch gag grouper in 9ft of water. And then we keep looking around. Well, there's freaking eight of them in there. So some of the most productive fishing has been via hunting to go get it and not just waiting and being just another cut bait in the chum slick. Right. And then. And it's ironic that Andrew, the guy I hired, is the business development manager, is a hunter.

[Eric]

He's a.

[Jordan Upkavage]

We call him the duck fisherman because he goes duck hunting. Now, he is an awful hunter when it comes to actively harvesting and killing ducks. He goes and hunts all the damn time and might not pull the trigger because there's no ducks. So he does a really good job of waking up early, getting all his decoys, paddling his ass out there in the cold, and then he picks a bad spot and the ducks are way over there. So either I've made a really poor choice, a guy that can't kill anything, or a great choice of maybe I've offered him a hunting ground.

[Eric]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Poaching and going after and getting tree work.

[Eric]

Sounds like he's got great habits. Yeah, those are all. Those are all fantastic habits. The good habits are what. What gets you the wins.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. But his eyesight's way off.

[Eric]

That's fantastic.

[Jason Lee]

And so, Eric, this morning you are pulling a trailer.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yep, yep.

[Jason Lee]

To go and pick up some lawnmowers. So maybe we should talk about Gravely's participation in the landscape rodeo. We much, much appreciate you all coming on as a platinum sponsor and jumping on board with us.

[Eric]

Very excited. Thank you.

[Jason Lee]

And so what kind of mowers are you guys going to be bringing to the rodeo?

[Eric]

Oh, my goodness. We are going to have the ultra, the new pro stance ultra, which is a wide frame, 1000cc cowie engine stand on this one has a 60 inch deck with a wide tire kit it. And it Looks like. It looks like a funny car at a drag race.

[Jason Lee]

I think the same, same mower or similar mower that we were running in the two person relay on media day.

[Eric]

Yes.

[Jason Lee]

So for our listeners, if you want to go check out social media, there's some clips of Pablo Black Sheep Lawn and Garrett with Psalms Lawn Care. Anyway, running our two person relay event on media day and they were running this specific mower which looks like a. It is a beast. We drove it and it's. It's awesome.

[Eric]

Yeah, we'll have the 260 out there which is a.

[Jordan Upkavage]

What did you call the wide tire machine?

[Eric]

It's a Pro stance ultra. Pro stance ultra. And we came out with that earlier this year. It's been less than a year. It's been out. Okay. Yeah, there she is. It's kind of the evolution of where we think the stand on machines are going. It is lower center of gravity, larger, larger displacement engine. So this wider frame, you can put a 72 inch deck on it and it is just smooth as silk. A narrower frame machine with that big of a deck tends to get tippy and scalpy and handle's a little weird. So this is just a larger frame.

[Jason Lee]

So will it handle better on slopes?

[Eric]

It handles the wide tire kit. Other manufacturers put two wheels on there. They put duallys on there which looks, looks goofy as heck, but whatever. So we have a wide tire kit which is right now there's a, there's a large landscaper who's been demoing that machine in. In Tampa. Ruskin. They have been. They have some county work and they think this thing is just sticking like glue. So happy with that.

[Jason Lee]

It makes a big difference. But the dual wheels are pretty well. We demoed one and it 100% was better on the slope. But I'm looking at it and it's just like this is, this is a.

[Eric]

It's like a cartoon.

[Jason Lee]

It's a bit much, but it definitely held on the slope. But the wide tires, I mean, I mean after looking at the tires on that Pro stance ultra in person, I mean it's.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Lee]

I can see where it would help stick on the slopes.

[Eric]

It's a huge, A huge help.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So I know you guys make stand ons and ride ons. What's the application where you would prefer 72 stand on?

[Eric]

Oh my goodness.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Is it a laziness thing of picking up the trash?

[Eric]

That's a great question. That's a great question. And, and the stand on has become again, it feels like the evolution of it where lazy's the wrong word but we get complacent. And when you've got landscapers that are all day long sitting in a zero turn, it's hot and it's fatiguing and sometimes it can be. I don't need to really get off the machine to open that gate. I'll just bump it with the front of the machine to open the gate or I don't really need to get off that machine to pick up up those Styrofoam cups. I'll just run over them and then there's a thousand pieces of styrofoam flying around. It gets fatiguing to get up and down and on and off of a zero turn. The stand ons, you literally step off of it and step back on it. I mean it is ergonomically and your legs are flexing and you're not having that.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's like having a stand up desk.

[Eric]

Exactly right. And then, well, let's double down on that and put a treadmill under it. You know, life is good now. Right. So the stand on has become, I don't, I don't want to say it is a staple and it is, it is. I'm not the guy to tell you that's where the industry's going, but I can, I can see.

[Jason Lee]

But I think we're, I mean we're having that discussion internally and I think we're moving that direction. I don't think we're going to buy any more. I shouldn't say that. We probably always have some sit down mowers but I think we're going to transition the majority of our mowers, mowers even to. Normally we're running, you know, a 36 inch mower, 52 inch stand on and then a sit down 60. And I think we're going to transition this all stand ons and there's a

[Eric]

safety component to it that has, you know, landscape companies have had folks on zero turns doing pond banks. Right. Don't go down there, don't go down there. And they go down there. Right. And a mower can flop into the water and a zero turn can flip over.

[Jordan Upkavage]

You know, it's hard to get off

[Eric]

and it's hard to get off of it. I mean there have been tragedies. There have been tragedies in that scenario. The stand ons. If you're in that scenario, you jump off the thing and let the machine do what it's going to do and you're not trapped on anything.

[Jordan Upkavage]

No, I Get it? I have wheel loaders that you sit in. I got a yellow and gray one and I got the green ones. And then I have little articulating wheel loaders that you stand on. They're orange and they articulate and those are the jam.

[Eric]

Yeah. Right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

On and off and move the stick and pick it up and you're not like trapped where I got to open the door, take the seatbelt off. Off. In a way I think I would prefer as an operator to be standing. You got to sit in your butt hurts and sweaty and it's a pain in the rear end to open the gate.

[Jason Lee]

And a lot of my guys, well, the veteran, more veteran guys know that, you know, the new guys I want to get on the sit down mower and then the guys that have been doing it a long time, it's like, I don't want to go ride that field for four hours and beat my back to death.

[Eric]

Yeah. And it's an adjustment, Right. New things are difficult for people to grasp. And there's people that are all on board like you for the reasons you just mentioned. And there's some guys. I will never do that. Mike. Guys will never do that. And that's fine. You know, that's fine. But we are so confident that the stand on market is blossoming that Aaron's has come out with an Aaron's mower for residential. A stand on Aaron's mower. We think we're going to see more and more residential mowers, people cutting their own grasses on stand ons.

[Jason Lee]

I like that.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Low profile, lower to gravity. You know, you've been on a. I'm not going to poo poo a brand, but a Dixie chopper. It seems like you're sitting on an. A frame ladder, you know, way the hell up there.

[Eric]

It's a fact.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I'm just saying, when I used to start it with a nail that we sharpened on a bench grinder, right. That was the key. That was a nail.

[Jason Lee]

I'd inherited a couple of Dixie choppers whenever I bought out a guy's accounts. When I first started out with Scott Frog, I live with Jordan. So we had a couple of Dixies that eventually got transferred out. But man, I'll tell you one thing, they fast. They'd go fast.

[Eric]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jordan Upkavage]

They go fast.

[Eric]

Yes.

[Jason Lee]

We finally had to get, get rid of them because my guys, these were old school ones with the chain and the foot pedal and all the, you know, and the turny thing that we always lost the handle to start with. The screwdriver But.

[Eric]

But.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, but that was the clutch, right? Yeah. My guy. Yeah. My guys were too small to. They couldn't adjust the deck because if they'd push down on the pedal, the motor mower would shut off. So it's like. This is silly because their butt would

[Jordan Upkavage]

come off the seat.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah. Teeny tiny Tim, he couldn't.

[Eric]

Yeah, I. They are. They are. I have a friend and this goes back a few years. He was on his, his Dixie chopper and he's cutting his own grass. You know, amazing guy. He had acres to cut and I, I saw him and he had a bandage on his head. What happened, Rob, what happened to you?

[Jordan Upkavage]

He smoked a tree branch, didn't he?

[Eric]

A guy wire, he says. I was pinned, going wide open through my field. I didn't see the guy wire from the, from the power line. Like, oh my gosh, dude, you could have really hurt yourself.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I don't know if it is faster because if you're going wide open, you just gotta cut the field twice.

[Jason Lee]

Well, we need to get him out to the landscape rodeo and race some barrels and he doesn't have to worry about the guide wire out there.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

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[Jason Lee]

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[Jordan Upkavage]

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[Jason Lee]

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[Eric]

Oh, so the. The 260, which is a zero turn and it is a fleet favorite. That thing is a commercial. It's built like an anvil. It is a beast. We had it out forever. We took it away for a year as we launched some other new products and the, the feedback we were getting from, from our customers was we miss our 200s. We want our 200s. Back. Okay, so we brought the 200s back. And why is that a sweet spot? You know, it's not the biggest engine, it's not the biggest frame, but it's got the biggest drives in it. It's got the largest hydrogears you can put in there. And it's got a Kawasaki that starts every time one turnkey boom. It's just a solid workhorse where folks are buying 10 and 15 of those and putting them out there all day long. And it's a great fleet machine.

[Jason Lee]

What size does it have?

[Eric]

This one's got a 52.

[Jason Lee]

Okay.

[Eric]

This is a 52. So it's a fan favorite. So that'll be out there. I'm bringing the Ovus out there, which is our radio controlled brush cutter. It's a slope mower. Yeah. So it's a tracked mower, radio controlled. So that's just so much fun to cruise around with and that shines. And it does a 55 degree slope, which you don't want to walk a 55 degree slope. Right. And in the past, you know, you'd send up five guys with string trimmers to handle that stuff. And normally one of them hurts themselves and they usually break two or three pieces of equipment. But this slope mower will do in three hours what those five guys could do in a day.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Is it constant remote control or is it go like a Roomba?

[Eric]

No, it is radio controlled. So you have absolute control of it. And it's about an eighth of a mile of range, so it can get way out there.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So is that thing.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah, you.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, it's like a little mini forestry mower.

[Eric]

Exactly.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Bush hoggy thing.

[Eric]

And so it'll take down anything that's an inch and a half in diameter. Like it doesn't even belong there.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So it has a rotating drum of flails.

[Eric]

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So that'll be out there. That'll be a lot of fun. We're going to have an HD out there. So the HD is a huge fan favorite. And the HD that is way cool.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I could totally see applications like land

[Eric]

clearing, slope mowing, brush cutting, golf courses around their wet areas. And yep, the thing is just so much fun. It just, it just cuts up material and lays it down underneath it. It mulches it right there, not a big fuss.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And it's like you can cut it once a quarter or every six months. You cut the whatever.

[Eric]

And the work that this machine does, it's very expensive work. So you can recoup money very quickly when you start bidding Jobs that now

[Jordan Upkavage]

are requiring the labor to do that

[Eric]

with people would be absurd. Right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's obnox. Would you do that with the weed whacker, with the.

[Eric]

With the steel.

[Jordan Upkavage]

With the steel thing on it? And then what do you do with all the crap that you just cut, you harvested and it. That's bad to the bone? Is there. Do you have a competitor that has something similar to that?

[Eric]

You know, interesting. We. So what. What sets that machine apart is it's very nimble. It's 40 inches wide. I drive it up in the back of my. My pickup truck with ramps. The other ones that are out there and there are a couple out there are much larger machines.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Gasoline.

[Eric]

Gasoline. And it's.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I. I just YouTubed it.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's slope mowing with a gravely remote control ovis o v I s. That's right. And we're watching a little YouTube video now. It's. It's pretty bad to the bone.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

And it still has a flail head. So I've seen one. One that is similar, but it had rotary head. But it wasn't. It was chopping, but it wasn't. It was chopping. It was impressive to watch, but it

[Jordan Upkavage]

was leaving large chunks longer, skinnier.

[Jason Lee]

I would think that the flail head would do a little bit more similar to forestry motion.

[Eric]

Exactly. The flail head is. Man, it lives in that world where it's just mulching down all that stuff. And because there's layers of blades that coming around, around, around, around, around, and it's just constantly mashing down on that. That material. And so it just leaves a nice. It's not a finish more, but it leaves a heck of a cut. I mean, look what that thing's doing.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And you're bringing that to the rodeo.

[Eric]

That'll be a there. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Does Dan have some in.

[Jason Lee]

In the gravely demo area? We. There's nothing to take down like that,

[Eric]

but even riding, driving it around is so much fun.

[Jason Lee]

For the VIP dinner, we can.

[Jordan Upkavage]

We need to find, like, some Caesar's weed.

[Jason Lee]

Oh, no. He's got. He's got a bunch of stuff, like, out in the pasture. It's tall. Oh, yeah. We can definitely take it out there and play with it.

[Eric]

Yeah, that's a lot of fun. So that guy will be there or

[Jason Lee]

try to set up a time and rain with some people if you want to. You know, if you want to do a demo of that. Like, hey, galaxy, gather up 10 people and go over and where there's some brush to lay down. Yeah, no that's impressive.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. So that's a lot of fun that. If, if there's any show you go to and you bring that and just put that in a booth, I have a video that plays behind it so people can walk up, they see the video of what it's doing and then they look at the machine and they're

[Jordan Upkavage]

like, oh, my gosh, I've never seen that before. Right?

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Lee]

So what's the hd?

[Eric]

So the HD is a zero turn mower and it is. It is a heavy duty residential, or I would call it a light duty commercial. It's a. It's a machine that shines for. Or the fire. He's in the fire department three days and he wants to cut grass two days on his off days. The hd, the zt. There you go. The ZTHD is a great machine for that and guys will use it in commercial applications. The truck in a truck. And that's fine. It's a great machine. We sell I don't know how many thousands of them because people love it. I don't live in that world because it's not really a commercial grade. I wouldn't recommend that to, To. To Sky Frog or to, you know, but we're bringing that because it's such a huge hit and people love it.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And this is a little more economical on cost than buying the commercial. Of course.

[Eric]

Of course. Yeah, of course.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So homeowner with five acres.

[Eric]

Exactly, Exactly. Yeah. That mower will last a homeowner with five acres through generations. They'll be passing it down to their kids.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's not the Z turn you buy at Home Depot.

[Eric]

No, the.

[Jordan Upkavage]

The. What do you. The deck that you can tell was press mold stamped.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It wasn't.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's not a stamped deck. These are all fabricated decks, seven gauge steel. You know, I could geek out with details, but it, it's, you know, fantastic stuff. Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

That generational mower is real. My dad growing up, so we started out on a. When I grew up, we had an acre and a half of bahia grass we maintained. And I was raised to push mow

[Eric]

that with a. Oh, my goodness.

[Jason Lee]

With an actual push mower. And I started as soon as my dad tricked me into it. I used to have a bonnet.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Bubble.

[Jason Lee]

Bubble lawnmower.

[Eric]

We all did it, Pops.

[Jason Lee]

So I was like, oh, I'm doing what dad does. And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, do you want to take one pass? And of course he's listening right now. And it's this Is all facts. So it's like, oh, yeah, we'll take one pass. It's like, all right, we'll go down and back. And it's like, oh, go down and back twice. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna do this section of the yard. And once I got this one, like fifth or quarter of the yard, it was do the whole thing. So fast forward, we moved to a different piece of property. We had my grandpa's 22 inch snapper mower.

[Eric]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Lee]

Right on, right on. It took me 13 and a half hours to mow.

[Eric]

Mow. What was the one with the tube? Handlebars.

[Jason Lee]

Handlebars. Yeah. I'm going up and down this hill. It took me 13 and a half hours.

[Eric]

Single blade on it. Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

To mow 4. 4 acres.

[Eric]

That's a throwback.

[Jason Lee]

We went back and bought a yard tractor, which a Scott's yard tractor at that time was life changing for me.

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

So then fast forward again. 2004, I move out to go to college. I come back to go alligator hunting. And I see my dad. I passed my dad over the Duns creek bridge and has a trailer with a. Not the big skag, but a 48 inch skag, whatever type cub. I don't know the brands of skag. And passing with a zero turn, it's like, whoa, hold on. I just. I move out and now you get a zero turn lawnmower. But he's had that mower. He still has that lawnmower. And he's just. Now it's leaking enough oil where he's

[Eric]

like, I think I need to get another mower.

[Jason Lee]

It's like, well, dad, come drive some mowers at the landscape rodeo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

They're gonna be there Thursday night.

[Jason Lee]

I don't know. I don't think so. But the. I said, yeah, come drive some mowers. I said, figure out what you want to. What you want to buy. So.

[Jordan Upkavage]

But that totally has a space. So, for instance, I have no business buying a lawnmower. But I buy a lot of chainsaws. Right? And the parallel is the Husqvarna 455 rancher. It's got a 20 inch bar on it. It's going to cost 500 bucks. It cuts wood. It's great, Right? So if you're the homeowner and you're going to cut some trees and buck them up, it's your saw. But for me, the parallel would be the 372 xp Husqvar.

[Eric]

Okay.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's Twice as much money. But that is the machine that's gonna go to war every single day. So it's the same thing. The 455 is a fantastic saw, but you might not want to send it to war.

[Eric]

I have a 455.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's a great saw.

[Eric]

I got it in South Carolina cleaning up after a hurricane probably 20 years ago. 20 years ago. And that's my go to. I mean I got other saws in there, but that nothing sounds. This isn't a Husqvarna plug, guys. But nothing sounds like a husky when you crank that trigger. It is just unbelievable using that thing.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. For whatever reason, like our business model, we have steel top handles. So steel top handle saws, steel power pruners, saws, and steel blowers.

[Eric]

Okay.

[Jordan Upkavage]

If it's bigger than a 14 or 16 inch bar, it's going to be a Husqvarna. It's just that wall. I don't know if they're torquier. I don't know. But it's just kind of a culturey thing. But man, if we have a 3120 XP, which is the biggest chainsaw, the. The steel's Parallel is the 8800 or whatever it is. But the 3120 XP, it's so big we don't use it.

[Eric]

It's like we're cutting down redwoods with this thing.

[Jordan Upkavage]

We're like holding a dirt bike. And you know how a two stroke dirt bike, when it idles, it's ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. That this thing is pinging and then you let it rip. It's like, holy crap. I am literally riding a dirt bike.

[Eric]

I love it.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And the thing is so freaking heavy. Like it's awful.

[Eric]

But throwing wood chips like Crazy Italy, you can't see through them.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It'll lead our long bar. It's a six foot long bar to the point where like you try to cut a stump, the bar bends. So you need to start your cut with like a 32 inch just to create a level surface to fit the bar in. So you're not cutting like a banana.

[Eric]

That's.

[Jordan Upkavage]

But it's a. Oh my God. Damn thing is heavy.

[Jason Lee]

This might be silly. Do they ever make a chainsaw where like there's something on the other end of the bar for somebody else to hold?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yes. And then that went away due to osha.

[Eric]

It was a force forestry stuff, right?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. Because if I'm operating a saw, you're not allowed within 10ft of me. So how can you be on the tip of this bar holding it? Yeah, it would be awesome for. Hey, osha's not looking. Let's put this handle on there. But we can't do that.

[Eric]

But you see some black and white pictures from when they were harvesting giant redwoods and things on California with saws that big. And there's a dude on the other end like, how did these guys survive? What was the mortality rate?

[Jordan Upkavage]

I don't want to be on that end. Right. The pointy end. No, I want to be on the butt end of it holding the trigger. Could you imagine your fingers are four inches away from decapitation.

[Jason Lee]

I was thinking like a more extended handle where you're not so close.

[Jordan Upkavage]

But I mean a 10 foot long handle.

[Jason Lee]

I don't know. Well, Eric, we appreciate you guys coming on board for the landscape rodeo. We're excited for everybody listening right now. Come out tomorrow and see Eric. This episode's dropping the day before the rodeo. So right now live time is February 19th for listeners and come out and ride some gravely mowers. Demo some mowers if you're in the market and then if not join a competition that's $5. A competition for the landscape rodeo. Come run some precision courses. And we're going to be running precision courses, racing zero turns around barrels. We're going to be doing skid steer tire flips.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I'm looking forward to this committee work that we're going to do. And we're going to check out the gravely ovis remote control mini forestry mower on tracks.

[Jason Lee]

I want to see what they can. I want one just to have it. It'll be there just to play with it.

[Eric]

That's right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

We need to find some coral or DJ and go have. Have ham.

[Jason Lee]

Absolutely.

[Eric]

So if you're going ham on it.

[Jason Lee]

If you're looking to sign up for the landscape rodeo, please go and register now and sign up if you have not. We are going to be putting together swag bags Thursday afternoon and evening. So we would like to try to do as much of that pre event day. We will have registration on site on Friday morning and you can check us [e-mail] or the Landscape rodeo on all the social media.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. And do Jason and the volunteers a favor and just register so you're in there. And it's not just a total cluster day of where everybody coming up registering day of get it ahead of time.

[Jason Lee]

Then we know it's. We know it's going to be and we're planning for it. But we'd like to mitigate it. We'd like to mitigate it as much.

[Jordan Upkavage]

The more that's cleaned up on the front end, the easier it's because we

[Jason Lee]

want to get everybody into, into competition mode as fast as we can.

[Eric]

And Eric, it's going to be a great time.

[Jason Lee]

If someone wants to reach out to you or check out Gravely Mowers, how should they do that?

[Eric]

Oh, my goodness. I'll give a phone number. 813-765-4288. It'll ring this guy right here. Here. Happy to talk to anybody and everybody. We've got dealers across the country. We've got dealers in your backyard. We've got, you know, it's a great family owned business. We care about the customer. We won't, we won't leave with your bag still in the back.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Nice. Good job. Full circle.

[Jason Lee]

There you go.

[Jordan Upkavage]

You're a professional podcast, so if you

[Eric]

made it all the way to the end, you'll get that reference.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. Well done. So well.

[Eric]

Cool.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Well, Eric, thank you so much. And it is 9:20 in the morning and we have a day ahead of us to go succeed and mop the floor with our competition and then nurture the young ones to be healthy competitors.

[Eric]

Right on. It's a circle of life. All right, well, thanks, guys.

[Jason Lee]

Thanks, Merrick.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Thank you.

[Jason Lee]

As you continue your journey toward entrepreneurial success, let Jason and Jordan be your trusted companions on this uphill climb. Don't miss out on future episodes of the Green side Up podcast. Make sure to hit that follow button to stay updated. For more ways to connect with the guys, check out the podcast description. Thank you for tuning in. And remember, keep working hard so you can play even harder and keep the green side up.

[Eric]

Sa.