Green Side Up – Episode 117: “Pretzel Pavers, Protected Trees & Process: Building a Smarter Operation”

Date: March 26, 2026
Hosts: Jason Lee & Jordan Upcavage

Episode Overview

In this value-packed episode, Jason and Jordan dive deep into the realities of running a landscaping and tree care operation. They share on-the-ground stories from recent jobs—installing large-scale “pretzel” paver projects, dealing with protected trees amid city regulations, leveraging new tech to streamline business processes, and building winning client relationships. Key themes include creative problem-solving, the intersection of compliance and practicality, adopting technology in the field, and the importance of process and team structure to grow a smarter operation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. “Pretzel Pavers” at Blue Springs State Park

(00:47 – 09:20)

• Big Installation: Jason details a massive project at Blue Springs State Park installing 7,000 sq ft of Belgard turf block pavers, affectionately called “pretzel pavers.”
  • Pavers form a 9-feet-wide kayak launch road with a cul de sac.
  • Over 60 pallets used; six semi trucks to deliver materials.
  • Avant and Kubota loaders used for moving the heavy, fragile pavers.
• Teamwork & Process:
  • Core team of 3–4 handling laying and cutting—significant, precise manual labor.
  • Complexity added by concrete ribbon curbs requiring lots of custom cutting.
  • Pro tip: Estimating production rates and labor (“I just pulled it out of thin air. I guessed,” – Jason [06:12]), and how reality tested those assumptions.
• Grass Installation:
  • 140 lbs of Zoysia grass (almost 2 acres) laid on-site.
  • Crews were subbed in for sodding work.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Jason: “There's definitely a lot of work. Work going down.” [05:15]

2. Navigating City Regulations on Protected Trees

(09:50 – 26:41)

• City of Tampa Water Main Replacement Project:
  • Jordan describes regulations around tree protection:
    • 5” DBH+ = protected (10’ excavation no-go zone)
    • 24”+ = specimen (15’), 32”+ = grand (20’)
  • No exceptions even for city projects; strict compliance required.
• The Arborist’s Role:
  • Importance of a certified arborist on site, air-spading roots, fencing off trees.
  • Consulting work and real-time problem-solving.
  • Collaboration with trusted partners (“Ricky”) and how to structure transparent, win-win billing relationships.
• Big Numbers:
  • The consulting/monitoring/mitigation bid ballooned to $140k–$225k due to strict requirements, but Jordan stresses honest estimating and not “being piggies.”
• Notable Quote:
  • Jordan (about Kimmins Contracting): “If anybody from Kimmin's calls and I'm eating a sandwich, I will spit what is in my mouth on the floor, and I will answer the phone.” [13:46]
  • Jordan: “This is the first time I have ever had over a six figure number for strictly consulting work that would then be milled through me. That was kind of cool.” [25:54]

3. Leveraging New Tech for Proposals and Plant Identification

(28:17 – 34:54)

• Live Switch AI:
  • Jordan highlights using AI tools for recording/video proposals and plant ID.
  • Creating templates for proposals and walk-throughs; efficiency unlocked by auto-identifying plant species via video.
  • Real-world accuracy: The system identified genus/species on a field visit (“It was extremely accurate. Really.” – Jason [29:48])
• Technical Hiccups:
  • Live Switch browser-based recording gets interrupted by incoming calls—solved by “Do Not Disturb” ([34:10] onwards).
  • Jordan: “It was that easy this whole time.” [34:54]

4. Building and Refining Operational Processes

(35:15 – 43:48)

• From Sales Call to Invoicing—Mapping the Process:
  • Jason describes visualizing out business workflows to clarify team responsibilities and triggers (who does what and when).
  • Tried LeanScaper AI platform to build detailed workflow charts—saved time, provided accountability and clarity.
  • Example: How a deposit triggers job scheduling and who tracks/communicates that.
• Key Insight:
  • “If we’re monitoring this process on a weekly basis… it just avoids any hiccups and it’s building the system.” (Jason [39:43])
• Resource: Jason is willing to share the documented workflow; reach out via Instagram or email.

5. Industry Partnerships & “Working Vacations”

(44:42 – 52:14)

• Webinar Recap:
  • Jason and Jordan, alongside Priscilla from Lynch Landscape, did a SingleOps/TCIA webinar on business, people, and processes (recording to be released soon).
  • Jordan shares the surreal experience of doing a business webinar from Central Park while teams worked in Tampa.
• TCIA & ISA Collaboration:
  • Exploring trade-show partnerships for 2026; using their networks to solve logistical problems (“Can you get us a tree?” for climbing demonstrations).
  • Notable: “We need the mycorrhiza to root system interface where we all benefit…” – Jason [51:51]

6. Celebrating Team Wins & Communication

(52:22 – 57:05)

• Uplifting Clients & Team:
  • Shoutout to plant healthcare tech Brear for proactive client emails, photo documentation, upsell suggestions, and deep client updates.
    • “That is a Yahtzee for upsell.” [54:45]
  • Emphasized the empowerment and positive client engagement through well-documented communications.

7. Operational Success Story: Large-Scale Moss Spraying

(57:09 – 63:19)

• Jason’s Win:
  • Spraying (copper sulfate) 90 pecan trees for moss control at an old grove property.
  • Importance of timing (pre-leafout), and application methods.
• Technical Exchange:
  • Discussion of equipment options for high-reach spraying; recommendations for Florida/Georgia operators.
  • Insider tip: Tampa/Florida Sprayers as a go-to supplier.

8. Closing Out: Wrapping Projects & Moving On

(63:19 – end)

• Both hosts prepping for a busy work day, quick sign-off with encouragement to stay in touch via Instagram/email for shared resources and knowledge.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “You're trying to break my brain this early in the morning.” – Jason [02:16]
• “There's nothing straight…There's a lot of cuts.” – Jason [04:56]
• “If you call independent tree service, they get what they need quickly, without problem. So it’s a perfect relationship.” – Jordan [13:46]
• “I will spit what is in my mouth on the floor and I will answer the phone.” – Jordan [13:46]
• “I have never had over a six figure number for strictly consulting work…that was kind of cool.” – Jordan [25:54]
• “It was extremely accurate. Really.” – Jason, on AI plant identification [29:48]
• “It was that easy this whole time.” – Jordan, on Live Switch’s fix [34:54]
• “We're not just robots doing fertilizer with no engagement with the client or opportunity for upsell.” – Jordan [56:30]
• “If you ever get into a bind, there's a place called Tampa Sprayers…do a drug deal…hand it to you when nobody's looking in the parking lot.” – Jordan [62:42]
• “Thank you, everybody, for listening…let's get to work. You got to make some money.” – Jason & Jordan closing [63:47]

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Start Time | |---------------------------------------------|------------| | “Pretzel Pavers” & Project Logistics | 00:47 | | Production Rates & Teamwork | 05:57 | | Protected Trees & City Regulations | 09:50 | | Arborist Reports & Consulting Bid | 17:38 | | AI in Proposals & Plant ID | 28:17 | | Tech Glitches – Live Switch Story | 34:10 | | Operational Workflows & LeanScaper | 35:15 | | Webinar Recap & TCIA Partnership | 44:42 | | Team Member Wins & Client Communication | 52:22 | | Moss Spraying Project – Equipment & Results | 57:09 | | Final Wrap-up | 63:19 |

Takeaways for Listeners

• Real talk on scaling operations: Honest, practical discussion of how ambitious projects get done, the power of teamwork, and problem-solving on the fly.
• Navigating regulations: Strategies for dealing with city rules – compliance is non-negotiable, relationships and documentation are key.
• Leverage technology: Experiment with the latest AI tools for proposals, workflows, and plant ID—genuine stories of both highs and frustration.
• Process matters: Systematize workflows for accountability and scalability—helpful for any owner/operator looking to level up.
• Celebrate wins: Empower your team to communicate and upsell to clients, and take pride in client education and service.
• Stay connected: Jason and Jordan encourage listeners to reach out for shared resources and to keep building the green industry community.

Contact:

• Instagram: @greensideuppodcast
• Email: jordan@greensideuppodcastmail.com