Ep 120. Sharpen Your Axe!

Summary

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Green Side Up – Ep 120: Sharpen Your Axe!

Hosts: Jason Lee & Jordan Upcavage
Guest: Christopher Rasmussen, TCIA Accreditation Auditor & Educator
Date: April 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jason and Jordan dive into the intersection of business resilience, safety, and education in the landscaping and tree care industries. Featuring Christopher Rasmussen, a certified arborist, safety educator, and TCIA accreditation auditor, the conversation covers everything from the lessons of risk management to the nitty-gritty of career advancement, with plenty of memorable stories and actionable insights along the way. Recorded live from Arborfest in Asheville, NC, the episode highlights why continually "sharpening your axe"—through education, reflection, and intentional process improvement—is essential for long-term entrepreneurial and operational success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Arborfest: The Green Industry Gathering (03:16–07:07)

• Arborfest Atmosphere: Christopher describes Arborfest as a lively, family-oriented event with both education and hands-on equipment demos. It's a unique blend of classes, competitions, and networking.
  • "It's a real family environment... I see kids, strollers, families, husbands and wives walking around." — Christopher (01:35)
• Expo Highlights: Cranes, grapple trucks, loaders, simulators, and a "ninja climb" hung 100 feet in the air create ample opportunity to test gear and skills.
  • "You've got all these, you know, more like a rock climbing, like little challenges in the air. But it’s hung from a crane..." — Christopher (05:25)

2. The Tamarisk Principle: Resilience in Harsh Environments (07:15–11:09)

• Christopher recounts his lecture on "the Tamarisk Principle"—using the hardy tamarisk (aka salt cedar) as a metaphor for business resilience in the green industry.
  • "We use [the tamarisk tree] as our mascot... surviving in harsh environments because surviving in the landscape and tree world is a harsh environment." — Christopher (07:15)
• Risk management essentials — making insurance, policy review, and process documentation a proactive part of business.
  • "You don’t know that you need it until it’s too late." — Jason (10:02)

3. From Midwest Roots to Industry Leader: Christopher’s Journey (12:01–17:32)

• Christopher’s career path: Grew up on a tree farm in Wisconsin, moved to Texas, inspired by line-clearance crews to become an arborist, and steadily built credentials through hands-on work and voracious learning.
  • "I get exposed to this and I can't stop thinking about it. So I go out and I buy a saddle, I buy rope, and I teach myself to climb." — Christopher (14:27)
• The importance of seizing learning opportunities and taking initiative in training and safety.

4. Beekeeping & Wild Jobsite Adventures (17:38–26:04)

• Christopher’s foray into beekeeping and the challenges of removing/saving bees during municipal tree work.
  • "I would just... I was pretty new into beekeeping and I realized... a lot of street trees would have a bee cavity." — Christopher (19:16)
• Jordan’s own wild story of a yellow jacket nest stalling a hurricane recovery job in Tampa, highlighting field unpredictability.
• Takeaway: Adaptability, safety, and preparation are crucial on unpredictable worksites.

5. Building Urban Forestry from the Ground Up (27:52–30:09)

• Christopher’s municipal experience: Tasked with founding Dallas’s urban forestry division from scratch—buying equipment, building crews, and managing city trees.
  • "I mean, talk about fun times... Imagine you get to [start a business with city resources]." — Christopher (28:24)
• The importance of creative problem-solving and leadership in municipal arboriculture.

6. TCIA Accreditation: Why It Matters (31:49–41:11)

• Accreditation is rare (<1% of tree firms) but highly beneficial, improving business safety, systems, and efficiency—even if consumers are often unaware of it.
  • "Statistically, accredited companies are safer... because they've dialed in their processes." — Christopher (31:49)
• Third-party auditing brings not only compliance but valuable outside perspective and accountability.
  • "It’s good to have that kind of, that third set of eyes look at what you're doing and, you know, give you some feedback." — Christopher (39:30)
• Candid discussion about costs, consumer perception, and the real driver: internal process improvements and risk reduction.

7. Principles for Lasting Business Success (43:04–50:59)

• The “sharpen your axe” parable: Success demands regular investment in staff training, process review, and self-care—not just relentless hard work.
  • "Those companies that thrive are the ones that take time to sharpen their ax." — Christopher (43:26)
• Formalizing education and career progression keeps staff engaged and lifts overall business standards.
  • "Every company should have something, some sort of a career progression that is known to all your employees." — Christopher (47:54)
• Career ladders clarify expectations and pay, motivate staff, set benchmarks—and weed out unmotivated players.

8. Elevating Industry Practices: Prescription Pruning (52:29–64:06)

• Christopher spotlights Florida’s Prescription Pruning Qualification (PPQ) as a game-changing tool for communicating clear, actionable tree care plans.
  • "When I first read about [PPQ] I got so excited... it gives [arborists] an excellent process for how to write prescriptions, how to communicate with your customer." — Christopher (52:29)
• Case Study: City development projects in Tampa now require ISA-certified prescriptions for all tree work, improving bid accuracy and execution.
  • "I got delivered a prescription that they needed a proposal on black and white. I was like, this is a best case scenario." — Jordan (55:44)
• Real-world advice: Training staff is key to implementing PPQ; collaborative field calibration (on real trees!) improves accuracy and builds team skill.

9. Memorable Quotes & Light Moments

• "If there’s a foot locking competition, and there’s an over-60 category, I’m in." — Christopher (64:45)
• "If you see our friends at Single Ops, tell them Jordan and Jason say hi... and tell Amy she never texted me back!" — Jordan & Christopher (65:40)

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Timestamps: Essential Segments

• Arborfest atmosphere/education: 01:35–07:07
• Risk management & tamarisk principle: 07:15–11:09
• Christopher’s career journey: 12:01–17:32
• Bee removal & job site stories: 17:38–26:04
• Municipal forestry leadership: 27:52–30:09
• TCIA Accreditation Deep Dive: 31:49–41:11
• Sharpen your axe & career ladders: 43:04–50:59
• Prescription pruning & industry progress: 52:29–64:06

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Actionable Takeaways

• Proactively engage in risk management: Review insurance and policies before incidents occur.
• Invest in staff: Regular training and clear career paths improve safety, retention, and business performance.
• Adopt new standards: Programs like PPQ bring clarity and professionalism to tree care proposals and practices.
• Sharpen Your Axe: Step back regularly to recharge, rethink, and learn—working “smarter” beats working “harder.”

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Resources & Contact

• Christopher Rasmussen
  • Email: [e-mail]
  • Open to questions on training, PPQ, documentation, bees, and more.

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Notable Moments & Quotes

• "You don’t know that you need it until it’s too late." — Jason, on risk management (10:02)
• "If you leave, that’s fine, but good for you. Look what I’ve left you with... it’s building your legacy." — Jordan, on training staff even if they move on (45:00)
• "We’re elevating their game and... making our production much more efficient." — Christopher, on joint training with sales and production teams (61:13)
• "Sharpen your axe" story — the central metaphor of the episode (43:26–44:53)

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This episode is packed with field wisdom, business strategy, and a healthy dose of humor—making it a must-listen for owners and operators in the green industry who want to weather the storms and “keep the green side up.”

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Green side Up, the perfect podcast for small business entrepreneurs looking to cultivate success in the landscaping and tree care industry. Join Jason Lee, a seasoned landscaper, and Jordan Upkavage, a true tree whisperer, as they share their wealth of experience and insights to navigate the challenges of growing your business. Get ready to hear real life stories, practical solutions, and invaluable advice that will empower you to thrive amidst the chaos of entrepreneurship. And now, let's keep the Green side Up with your host, Jason Lee and Jordan Upkevage.

[B]

Good morning everybody. Welcome back to the Green side Up. This is Jordan Upkavage joined by Jason Lee.

[C]

Jordan, welcome to North Florida.

[B]

Yes, sir, it is. What day of the week is today? It's Friday morning, it's 9:30 and I'm here in person in Gainesville. I had the pleasure of leaving my front door about, I don't know, 5:15 this morning, beating feet up here to Gainesville because we have a very awesome guest speaker that we're having on our show today. We are taking the morning slot and here across the ether of the Internet from, I believe, Asheville, North Carolina is Mr. Christopher Rasmussen. Welcome to the show, amigo.

[D]

Well, thank you. And I am so excited to, to be your, your guest. I think, I think really this is my first podcast to, to ever be on. I'm pretty sure that's, that is true. And, and I'm broadcasting from arborfest in Asheville, North Carolina and this is my first time to be in at Arbor Fest, which if you haven't been here, it's pretty awesome. I am super impressed with the, with the people that have, have shown up, the energy level, the, the participants. A lot of, a lot of field staff I think attend this and they attend with their family. So it's not only what I like about this, it's a real family environment. So I see kids, strollers, families, you know, husbands and wives walking around. Yeah, yeah, equipment. And so it's a, it's a super atmosphere.

[B]

Well, I gotta tell you, Christopher, if this is your first podcast and you are recording it with Jason Lee and Jordan Opcavage, these two righteous studs here, and you're doing it from Arborfest, I think you just set the bar about as high as you possibly can. So they go ahead and put this in the greatest hits of Christopher Rasmussen because it's happening right now. But tell me about arborfest. All right, so family environment. Is it, is it like a trees, Florida thing? Is it like a, a TCI type of a feel. Is it a climbing comp? Like, what's, what's the purpose of it?

[D]

Yeah, so Arborfest is. I think their, their main purpose is to. Is to bring education. I mean that we've got education going on where you've got climbing. They did. And then you. You've got the opportunity to test drive equipment. So if you go walk around outside this venue, there are. It's a. It's a huge agricultural complex.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So they do. They have like the, the. They have the, like the four H events here. So you've got animal. Animal pens and. Yeah, so big area, but you. There you go. Outside there's cranes set up, there's grapple trucks, there's articulating loaders, you know, chippers. So you can. You get to kick the wheels on all this really awesome equipment. And then you get. You get to come inside and get CEUs for whatever. Whatever is your interest. If it's pruning or climbing or plant health care, we got you covered. Just. Just a really awesome energy. And they've done a great job of just bringing all this together.

[B]

That sounds pretty badass, man. I was at, I think it was at TCI in St. Louis, Missouri a couple years ago, and inside the trade show floor, it was like that. It was the overwhelming factor. Grapple trucks, grapple cranes with grapple saws on them, other cranes. Cinebogen. They had a Cinebogen video game where you sat in the operating capsule and there was a giant screen in front of you and you would like take trees apart with the video game. I mean, what was the coolest thing that you've either seen or experienced since. I think it started Thursday, right? Yesterday.

[D]

Yes. Yeah, we started Thursday. Well, Wednesday was the pre. So pre. There was a couple pre conference workshops and then Thursday was open up, open to open registration. The coolest thing that I've seen. Well, they did. They've got a ninja climb. So they've got this crane and it on it is. Is this like, like American Ninja. So you've got a. You're. You aren't just climbing a tree. You've got all these, you know, more like a rock climbing, like little challenges in the air. Yes. Yeah, yeah. There's. There's like a. But it's hung from a crane, know, probably about 100ft in the air.

[B]

Holy.

[D]

And so that's probably the coolest thing. I haven't seen the V. I've seen those video or the video games or not video, but the training. The training simulator is the word simulators. Crane simulators. I've seen those, but not. I haven't seen them here. Doesn't mean they're not. I just. I don't think I've been everywhere yet. My, My plan was, is to walk around today and, and kind of you know, meet all the vendors and, and just comm. You know, just, just kind of network with.

[B]

Right.

[D]

All the. Because everybody that's here. So they even have. I just found this out this morning on the ride to the event. They have. There's a international. There's a bunch of international guys. So Germany I know is here. So I'm gonna. I put out a, a text on their app and I said hey, are you from. You know, where are you from? Let's meet up. Love to talk about pruning.

[B]

Yeah. So aren't you. You're there not just to check it out. Aren't you lecturing?

[D]

Yeah. So I spoke yesterday with. With Hub Arbor Insurance. So we put together a. What we called the tamarisk principle. The. If you're familiar with the tamarisk tree, it's a. It's a tree that survives in really super harsh environments. And. And so we use that as our mascot.

[B]

I'm not. I'm googling this now. I.

[D]

You're googling the tamarisk trees.

[B]

Maybe I'm not ready to be a BCMA because I've never heard of this tree yet. Tama Risk tamarisk. Yeah. Tree.

[D]

So. So what we did is to gate in a complex world of risk safety insurance and, and then what we can learn from the tamaris surviving in a. In harsh environments because we got God knows surviving in the landscape and tree world is a harsh environment.

[B]

Yeah. So I just googled it and it's a pretty cool tree. It's also known as a salt cedar and it's a flowering plant genus and become invades western North America and it looks like it grows in desert type environments.

[D]

It does. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And like I said, I didn't go. We wanted to have a mascot or a name that was catchy that would. So that when people read it. Because who wants to come to a talk about insurance and work processes? I don't.

[B]

Everybody. That's the most riveting thing ever. You time that right after lunch and it's going to go to risk management.

[D]

It's perfect. So. But we had, we had a good crowd. We. They. They showed up. They had. We had great questions. Again, Hub, they brought that component of risk risk management as it relates to auto insurance workers comp. Uh, Errors and omissions. So we, we had just kind of gave them an overview. We only had an hour, which I wish we would have had, like two hours, I think would have been. But we had an hour and then we had a lot of. We. We answered some. A few questions at the end, and I gave away some. Some really good documents, such as distracted driver policy, how to terms and conditions, you know, things that business owners really need to look at and don't always take the time to. To review. So, I mean, how often. Go ahead.

[C]

Oh, no. And it's, it's. It's probably the most important thing to review. It's. It's the, it's the most important information you could have, and you don't know that you need it until it's too late.

[B]

Yes. And that's when you make time for it is after the incident occurred.

[D]

Exactly. Yeah. And so that's what we were. And that. That was our goal, was to make the, these, make our participants aware that, you know, when's the last time you talked to your agent? When's the last time you reviewed your policy? Probably just at renewal. And it was just a. Oh, what do I have to pay for that now? But have you looked at the exclusions? Have you. Do we need to. To, you know, up your liability because you've. You've just brought on a new piece of equipment or what's your. Or maybe you're in trouble because you've had a few vehicle accidents and so now you're. Your insurance is crazy. Well, let's look at your training. Maybe we need to consider having telematics installed into your vehicle. So all of those. We just brought all these questions, and it was a great conversation.

[B]

Wow, that's cool. So, Christopher, I know me. I know that you're a certified arborist. I know that you're an arborist. I know that you know a thing or two about business and arbor culture and how business operates, but maybe some of our listeners don't know much about you. So can you kind of back up a couple of decades and Christopher Rasmussen, as a boy or a young man or pre marriage, pre kids, how did you get involved in the green industry and then weave yourself into the professional leader and educator position that you're in now? And then we'll kind of talk about what you really do for a living now.

[C]

Perfect.

[D]

Perfect. Okay, so let's. We'll back up. My story begins in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, or I should say Midwest Wisconsin, where we had a tree farm and we Managed those trees. Some sometimes I would do. I would, I would cut for firewood. I would cut trees for firewood. I would cut trees for the paper mill on. And so that was my first experience with a chainsaw.

[B]

So is it mainly pines, like row pines? Was the tree farm okay? Not selling a landscape commodity.

[D]

Correct, correct. This is just growing. Growing trees for pulp wood, timber that my family was in construction, so that was my main source of income. So then about late 80s, early 90s, I moved to Texas. And just because I was a. I lived in the Midwest and I wanted to. To kind of stretch my legs and so I stretched them down to Texas and I ran into some guys that was a line clearance, line clearance companies coming through my property. And I see these guys climbing trees and I was like, that is what I want to do. So I go out so well, oh, this is really cool. So they do an aerial rescue training on my property. No, because, like, I go out because I'm asking the guy, like, just company.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's just. You happen to be the lucky guy to have on job aerial rescue training.

[D]

I was just, I was out there asking him questions and then, and then like, then the, the foreman's like, can we do an aerial rescue training? I was like, hell yeah, let's do it. And so, so I got. So then I told my wife, I said, go, go down to the store, get some watermelons and, and bring those back. And. And so, so we did this aerial rescue training. I asked so many questions. This is back when, when they would cut, you know, they, they climbed on a tautline hitch and to aerial rescue, they would cut the bridge and then lower the guy down.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

That was their rest.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Was their rescue.

[B]

Yes. So that's the stopper knot.

[D]

So that's in the bridge?

[B]

Yeah, that when I learned on a tot line, you put a stopper dot IN the bridge so you know which side of the rope to cut

[D]

because all the ropes were white. So you didn't. You could differentiate between your bridge and the, and the, the, the climbing line. So anyway, so that, so I, I get exposed to this and I can't stop thinking about it. So I go out and I buy a saddle, I buy rope, and I teach myself to climb. And so eventually I realize, hey, this is, this is what I want to do. I get my certified arborist, I get my ctsp, I go to work for a residential commercial companies, learn how to run grapple trucks, aerial lifts. I go through T and get all the tree care academy. You Know just. I just devour everything I can.

[B]

How long. What was that time period?

[D]

I don't get any.

[B]

What was the time period from aerial rescue and buying your own climbing equipment and teaching yourself how to climb to. You are in production now.

[D]

It was, it was pretty short. I would just. I mean this was early. I'm trying. I'm thinking it was early 90s. So yeah, 90 or maybe even 89. Anyways, it was, it was within a. A year or two.

[B]

So you just. That I slammed on the gas, ventured out, learned to climb full throttle on the gas. This is drop. What I'm doing full arborist. I'm going to run a crew, get a cdl, run a grapple, and I'm going to absorb as much of this as fast as I can.

[D]

That is pretty much my. That was my path.

[C]

I just.

[D]

Pretty cool. I jumped in with both feet. Pretty cool. And yeah, I just like I said I would devour all the information I could I come across. If there was a, A class or a workshop going on, I was signed up, I was there. And so that was, that was my. I just kept building that. And then I. Once I got my ctsp, the certified Tree Care Safety professional, I. I realized that safety was a really big, big component of the tree care industry and I enjoyed safety training and. And so then I started that on my path to, you know, training and teaching and.

[C]

Did you do that on your own?

[D]

Yeah, at first it was, it was, it was my own. Yeah, I just started well for the companies I worked for. I would like, hey, can I do the safety meeting? Can I, you know, can I, can I teach this? I mean, how most of the time you have to like, you're in. You're gonna teach this today, so you better go home and study. And they're like, oh, no, I don't want to. Not me. I was, I was all. I was all in. So.

[B]

Yeah,

[D]

we're still good. Okay.

[C]

Yeah, I got you.

[D]

I'm trying to think. At some point, I submitted an article to TCI magazine. I think my first article was about rescuing bees from trees that are going to be removed because I remember I had gotten into.

[B]

What a pain in the ass that is. You know how hard it is not to have like insecticidal genocide because it is nothing but a time killer. The bee guys always flaky. They never get it all. You reschedule the job three times and then you show up in the damn bees are still there or a new colony moved in in the past 36 hours. Plant health care seems to be all the buzz in the green industry right now. Are you like many business owners that don't know how or where to start, or are you looking to add a new tool to your PHC toolbox?

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

Give Mitigro a shop for yourself. Their product is easy to apply and no special licenses are needed. Visit mitigrowpro.com to learn more. That's M I T O G-R-O-W P

[D]

R O.com okay, so here's how I did it. So I would. So I, I was just, I was pretty, pretty new into beekeeping and, and I realized that this company, a residential company, that a lot of trees. Oh, we had a. We had a municipal contract, so we had a lot of street trees. And sometimes those trees would have. Have a, you know. A bee. Yeah, bee. A cavity with bees in it. So what I would do is I would go the night before and I would seal up all the cavities with. I, I put like a net over, over it, staple it down, and then we'd come back the next day and they had a grapple truck. So. And it would. And they would grab. We would cut as much as away. Away as we can. And so if, if I could cut above and below where the hive was, we would set it on a trailer and we would take it away. And then we would have a sprayer full of soapy water. And that if, if we didn't get all the bees, we could spray them down. It would, it would coat their wings. So at least they're not flying around, you know, stinging everybody in sight.

[B]

Huh.

[D]

So anyways, that was my first article. I wrote it. I wrote an article on, on saving bees. And. And so that kind of. Then that started me on my journey to, to write articles for the TCI magazine, in which at this point, right now, I'm on the editorial, the TCIA editorial committee, which. So we. And I've written some articles just recently which we'll Talk about. Yeah, later.

[B]

Well, you, you definitely got some street cred there. If you are going at night when it's a cooler temperature, the bees are less pissed off and you're climbing around or you're on a ladder, you're tied in and you are like buttoning them up in their home to then remove their entire capsule and transport it. That takes, that takes a lot of effort.

[C]

Genuine be whisper.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So it, yeah, well, so I'll share with it one story about when it all went sideways.

[C]

There you go. Yes, that's what we want to hear.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

So, because, because, you know, you could plan for everything. I had a couple of them go. Perfect. We grabbed, grabbed the bees, drove them away. We ended up, you know, were able to remove the tree that day without using any insecticides. But one day we're, we're doing it. Everything's going perfect. The grapple operator grabs the, the top of the, the, the stem. I cut it and he lifts it over the top of the trailer. And I don't know if he, if he just accidentally squeezed the grapple a little bit, but he's over the top of the trailer and all of a sudden it just collapses and the whole thing just disintegrates. Bees are everywhere. I mean, I'm talking. I had a suit on. The grapple truck operator, thankfully he had a suit on. And we're just. I'm like, this is a mess. So that was a bad day.

[B]

So you had a bee suit on as cutting?

[D]

Oh, absolutely, yes. Oh, yeah. I, I would wear, I would just wear a jacket. Yeah, I had a, I have a jacket with a, with a full hood. You can, your helmet fits underneath, underneath the hood. So I had all my PPEs on, but yeah, and, and then the, the operator, the grapple truck operator, I always made sure that they were wearing a bee suit as well.

[B]

Oh, that's brilliant. Look at, look, you're genuine. You're talking about safety ctsp and you got a bee with a hard hat underneath it. Right?

[D]

That's.

[B]

All right. You got it. So.

[D]

Oh, yeah, we had it. We had it dialed in.

[B]

Nice. Hurricane Milton smashed the city of Tampa. October of 2024. Okay. We, we did crane removal after crane removal after crane removal. So the hurricane went through Wednesday night. My family and I, I took them to Orlando. I had three young kids, a dog, whatever. So Thursday morning, 6am I'm heading west back into Tampa. The storm had just gone through that night. So I get to Tampa on Thursday. I didn't field one call that Came through the office because I never left my neighborhood all day. I was looking at tree on house, tree on house, tree on house, tree on house. Out of all my neighbors. So that was Thursday. Was planning Friday Morning crane in the air. Okay. We attempted three crane removals in one day. We got the morning crane removal for Joey. We got the late morning removal for. I forget the guy's name. And then we attempted to do Ms. Assendorf's crane removal. I got the crane in the driveway, got a lift set up, and. And I have an articulating wheel loader that's going through some overgrowthy bromeliad, jasmine stuff. So think about, like, 10 inches of squishy squish till you get to soil, right? So everything's in the air. And articulating wheel loader sitting here. The operator starts freaking out and gets out of the machine run, and he's covered in yellow jackets. So the articulating wheel loader is on top of the. Of a yellow jacket nest. Yellow jackets are flying around everywhere. Pissed off. It shuts the job down. Fold up the crane, fold up the wheel, or fold up the man lift. But we have a wheel loader on top of the hive that's on. We can't go turn it off and can't move it. It's covered in yellow jackets. So I call an exterminator who I went to high school with. His name's Garrett. It's like, Garrett, shit's hitting the fan, man. I need help. What can you do? He goes, all right, man, I'll be there in like an hour. So the machine's idling, vibrating. I'm pissing them off this whole time. So Garrett comes in a bee suit, and we have to give him instructions on how to operate an articulating wheel loader so he can drive it off of the hive, put it on a trailer, then go terminate and treat the in ground nest. But that was the most unique BE experience I've had to have involving instructing a pest control operator on how to operate my machines.

[D]

Yes. Crazy.

[B]

That's my story. But you win. You win because you're saving them. I was killing them

[D]

anyway. Let's see. So I don't know where. Where I stopped off. I. I kind of got sidetracked on. On bees. But my. My career progression. So I worked for residential commercial, and then I was. Then I decided that I might give the municipalities a try. So I went to work for the city of Fort Worth in their parks Department. And that was okay. I was. I was Kind of searching for something else. And then the city of Dallas put out an advertisement for a urban forestry manage in public works, brand new department. And I was like, I'm gonna just throw my hat in the ring there because I really, and I really had a passion for improving street trees. And, and I, I knew that construction was just, was, was damaging these old mature trees or, or even they were, they were planting new trees in places that shouldn't have been. So, so I really, I thought that that's a, that's a great place. I like that in public works. So they, so I go to Dallas, I get the job. And I spent seven years at the city of Dallas in public works and developed this urban forestry, which was really super fun. I mean, I, I, when I started that job, it was just me. They gave me. They, and they like, okay, it's just you, and here's your budget. You need to buy equipment and hire people. I was like, Christmas in July or whatever, the day I got right. I mean, talk about, talk about fun times.

[B]

So your job was not to inspect trees and issue permits. Your job was to care for and manage the trees owned by the city in the right of ways and parks.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

You nailed it. Yeah.

[B]

So then you were tasked with starting a business. You have, you have to hire employees, you have to purchase equipment. You said, Mr. Rasmussen, you need to start a business and care for the municipal trees.

[D]

Yes, that's exactly. But I had none of the pressure because, you know, I had pretty much. I had the money and the city, the city resources behind me. But besides that, it's just, imagine you get to.

[B]

It's a monumental task anyway. It's finding the, it's doing it. So that's not, it's still a massive undertaking to do.

[D]

It was, but it was fun. I enjoyed every, every minute of it. Again, I was only, I was there for seven years, but.

[C]

And Dallas is a huge city, so. Dallas is a huge city. So what, what size team of people did you develop?

[D]

Well, so that's, so that was the other component to so. So Parks department already had a, A massive forestry department, but they, they were tasked with managing the park trees and they were getting. And so they didn't want to have to manage street trees as well. And so that's why this department was developed, which I thought was brilliant, because street trees and we. Surplus properties that the, the city had owned. So, and, and so part, and then part of that I had a, a landscaping crew or a mowing crew that was under my purview. As well. So, So I had a great, A great team put together that. And, and, and my scope was pretty small because I'm just looking at street trees right away. Trees and surplus property trees.

[B]

Well, that's pretty cool, man. So what happened next?

[D]

So, so, so then I, like I said, I, I, I had to drive. So the biggest burden of having that job is I lived in Fort Worth and my job was in Dallas again. So I was. But I was able to take a commute, take a train, and so that kind of cut down on that, the commuter fatigue. But so I did that for seven years, and then I just. And during my time with, with the city of Dallas, I had also. I was also doing accreditation audits for tcia. Kind of like part time. I would take. I would take vacation time. I'd go do audits. And I got that job just by being a, A super big pest to tcia. The Bob Rouse is, is the manager over that I would call every time I saw him at Expo. I said, hey, when you have an opening, you know, think of me. And I just, every. I'd see him. This went on for years. And finally I got the call, and I. And he says, hey, I have an opening. I need, I need some more auditors. Are you interested? I said, yeah, but I'm working for Dallas. I can't give up this job. Can you? You know, can we do that? And he's like, yeah, we can do that. So, so that started my, my journey with tcia, and, and that's where I am today.

[C]

So I'm not, I'm not.

[D]

I left Dallas and I started.

[C]

So I'm not a. I'm not very familiar with TCIA in the auditing process. So what does that, what does that entail with what you did then and

[D]

what you're doing now? Okay, so, yeah, so TCIA accreditation auditor is responsible for visiting accredited companies. That. So accreditation is a voluntary program that tree companies enter into and because they want to be considered, you know, a part of that. Less. There's less than 1% of tree companies are accredited. And so it's a very small group. But statistically, accreditation accredited companies are safer. And they're. And they're very. And they're safer because they've dialed in their processes. So TCIA accreditation gives them, okay, this is what needs to be in your safety policy. This is what needs to be in your employee handbook. You need to have a distracted driver policy. You need to do performance evaluation. So there's like 200 things that I check When I do an audit and going through, go going through those processes seem daunting at first, but once they have it dialed in, they're like, you know, the companies I visited, I visit, they're like, I don't know why I didn't do this years ago. Because it just, it gets you dialed in and gets you focused on those business processes that are sometimes overlooked.

[B]

What does it cost a business to do that? Because I am not a TCIA accredited business.

[D]

So and so I'm not.

[B]

Or is this sliding scale based on revenue?

[D]

Yes, so. And I'm not. So I'm a subcontractor, so I'm not involved with the, with the fees and the, and the, the pricing. But yes, it is. It's based on your revenue that you bring in. That's how they determine what level they're going to place you at. So the more money you make, the more money that you end up paying. Yeah, unfortunately.

[B]

Yeah. No, I, I, I, because I looked into it and, and Christopher, I thought

[C]

about

[B]

the TCIA accreditation and, and the whole bit and maybe I'm nearsighted or farsighted or I'm looking at it wrong, but in a consumer base optics certified arborist sticks. The consumer base seems to know or at least the ones I want to work for know that certified arborists exists. So we have focused very heavily on scientific arboriculture education and doing good tree work via ISA Certified arborist. There's five certified arborists with independent tree service because there's teeth from a consumer base for TCIA accreditation at least in City of Tampa. I don't know if there's any TCIA accredited businesses in Tampa or if there are, it's probably boutique level business and not multi crew level business, at least from what I've seen. And if I were to mention TCIA accreditation to a consumer, I would likely be informing them that that exists rather than telling them I have whatever ASE mechanic certification. Right. Would the real motive for the business to become accredited be the real selfish reason to have a. To increase your safety likelihood and increase efficiencies and put systems in place? Is that the real motive for the selfish want to be? Arguably better quote unquote.

[D]

So the short answer would be yes, I would say definitely. The, the process of going through accreditation is valuable because it, it gets you focused, gets you dialed in to not only for TCIA for, for the accreditation requirements, but also for OSHA requirements. Z133 requirements. Do customers know about it? No. I've been on so when I. Part of the audit is for me to visit, do a job site observation. And so once, some. Sometimes I get to talk to, you know, customers will come out because I'm that guy standing off out of the, out of the drop zone, just observing. And so I'm very approachable, and customers will come up into me and I, and I'll ask them the question. I said, do you know that you're. This company is accredited? And they're like, no, tell me about this. What is this accreditation thing? So I explained to them, and they're like, oh. But when, when I explain it to them, they're like, oh, well, then I, I. And their response is, then I hired pretty good, didn't I?

[B]

Right?

[D]

Like, yes, you did.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Hired a cream of the crop.

[B]

You. Right.

[D]

So now, now there are some. There's also a utility line accreditation, and there are some benefits to that because there are. My understanding of there are contracts for utility line clearance companies that give them preference if they are accredited.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

So now that was, that was kind of the goal for accreditation as well, is to kind of build that into contracts. But I haven't seen that happen as, as much as I would like to.

[B]

Yeah, no, it gives me an opportunity to reflect on it, man. I mean, I think any biz. Every business that has been. I don't know how I'm going to word this statement, but it's not uncommon for a business to have experienced an injury of some sort. Okay. Even if you're well disciplined, you do it long enough, accidents do happen. People mess up. Things happen. Right. I think if you have the systems in place, you may be less likely to have those incidents. And then if you're just a reckless Yahoo, you're more likely to have those incidents. And I just, it's, it's an opportunity for me to reflect. I'm sitting here and I'm thinking about the incidences that we have had as a business. And then I'm going through the hindsight of, okay, would those have even happened? Would they have been prevented? And it's just kind of, I don't know, it's making me reflect and ponder a little bit on. I mean, we got our, we got our act together, Christopher. I mean, we're pretty damn good business. There's always room for improvement, you know, and it's just I'm sitting over here going, damn.

[D]

One of the things that I like about accreditation is, I think, or a benefit is that a third party comes in. So if you're an accredited company, every three years you get a visit from an auditor. And so we're just, we're coming in as, you know, not to, not as a policeman. We're coming in, we come in as a partner with them because I want them to succeed, you know, but maybe they've had some office, some office staff change and maybe their documentation, you know, that, that archiving that documentation isn't, hasn't happened because somebody who left, that was their job. And, and, and so it's good to have that kind of, that third set of eyes look at what you're doing and, you know, give you some feedback. And that's what I, and I, every time, every company I visit, you know, I want to give them some feedback. Hey, this is, this is what I see here. This is what you're doing. Good. But here's what I see. We could, we could make some improvements on, and, and I think that's valuable. In fact, there's, there's been companies where if I didn't come come back with very many, like, this is, this is where I, I need some. In where you could do, where I could see some improvement. They're like, is that all you found?

[B]

Kind of pissed, you know, like, that's it, man. Like, yeah.

[D]

I was like, dude, you're doing everything right.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

What I really had to search hard for that.

[B]

Yeah. So you've, you've done the work, you've done the municipal side of things. Now you're auditing and grading businesses and their processes. Is there a, is there a guidance that you could give a green industry business owner, Whether it's a landscaper, an irrigation company, you do interior house plants, or you run a tree business, Are there trends or principles and peers that lead those businesses into a better likelihood of success? Either money success or good quality work success or not working yourself to death success. Like, what are some of the pillars that you see as a common theme? Do you want your office phone to ring more and increase service requests to your inbox? Want to push the gas pedal on your lead volume?

[C]

Looking for a marketing company is daunting. And who knows how to select a marketing company that really works? No business owner wants to spend their hard earned money on empty promises.

[B]

Intrigue Media is your solution. Both Jason and I have partnered with Intrigue to help grow our businesses by simply making our phone ring more. Intrigue will build you an up to date website in record time. They had my website live on the Internet. Start to finish in under seven days. Intrigue will crank up SEO for your business, increase your organic Google ranking and even handle your paid Google Ads.

[C]

Intrigue Media is fast tracking lead volume for both Skyfrog landscape and independent tree service. You should give them a try. For your business, visit intriguemedia.com if you want to make more money and crush your competitors online, that's Intrigue media dot com.

[D]

The companies that, that flourish, that endure are the ones that, that take time to, you know, to engage with their employees, to train their employees, which I, where I like to say, take time to sharpen their axe. You've heard the story about the two lumberjacks?

[B]

Nope. I'd love to.

[D]

You haven't? Well, I'll have to share it with you then. So there's two lumberjacks. Every morning they start at the same time. Every evening they finish at the same time. But each day one of them disappears for an hour. And so this, this goes on for months. And finally one of the other lumberjacks. I don't get it. We start together, we finish together. I work straight through the day, you disappear for an hour, but you still out produce me. Where do you go? And the other lumberjack looks up and he says, I go home and sharpen my ax. So. So in our industry pride ourselves on working hard, but those companies that thrive are the ones that take time to sharpen their ax. So going to, going to places like Arbor Expo, Arbor Fest, tcia, those that, that's sharpen your axe and, and you're showing your employees that, hey, I value what you do. And I wanna, I want you to succeed. And whether, and I want you to succeed, whether it's with me or you move on to do something else on your own or to something bigger and better.

[B]

Well, Christopher, I'm gonna have to pause this podcast. I gotta go to my truck, sharpen my ax real quick. I'll be back in just a minute. No, man, it makes all the sense. I don't want to make this show about me and my business, but I have worked pretty hard in the past, I don't know how many years. Maybe it wasn't 10 years ago, maybe it was in the past five, six years. When I started becoming very involved in the Florida chapter of the isa. I started looking more at formally educating employees and giving them more responsibility or going to seminars and giving responsibilities like, you're in charge of this now. And I think it was very well appreciated, the investment in the person. Like, even if you like. I have a guy that used to work for me. He ended up wanting to move to Alabama, change a career. But I put him through certified arborist school. And I was like, dude, if you leave, that's fine, but good for you. Look what I've left you with. Look at this coaching that you have, this education. It's like it's building your legacy. Because if Jordan upcavage ups and explodes, what's left over? If you're harboring all of the secrets inside, if you're leaving a platoon of awesome difference makers that are educated, you're more powerful and better. So it makes all the sense. And it's not easy to do. It takes effort to do that. It takes a person that wants to be led. I can drag people to the river constantly and sometimes you have to do that, but it's difficult and challenging to do. And it takes a lot of work from a manager's standpoint and money and time to set aside to make that happen.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely. And that career progression, I, I like. There's a couple of. There's some companies that I visit that have a banner and it shows their career progression for of their employees. So it has, I mean, it's a huge banner that hangs on the wall of the branch. So when their employees come in, they see what a ground worker, their qualifications. How many months does it take to become, you know, to, to fully grasp being a, being a groundwork. And they have, I think they have three different levels. Then it moves on to tree climber, aerial lift operator, crew leader, plant health care. So it gives, it gives a, a time frame. Hey, if you want to be, you know, if you really want to excel at that position, here's what it's going to take. Here's the time investment for you. And, and then they give them. And then they also supply them with all the education material.

[B]

Yeah, but you could do.

[D]

I mean, every company should have something, some sort of a career progression that is, that is known to all your employees.

[B]

Yeah. So you're not, you're not setting a management and post ceiling on anybody. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Well, you're. Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

But also holds employees accountable too. It's, it's. Instead of, you know, we call it a career ladder in our business and we've developed that, you know, you come in as a landscape technician, level one, you know, and we have general labor, but really we're not. That's for like a high school student or someone that's just coming in and doing, you know, that knows nothing and we really don't. It's still on the ladder, but we don't want to really hire that position now. So you Know, we start out at landscape technician level one and here's your qualifications. And then this is what you have to do to get to level two. And then from level two with the pay ranges that's involved. And so then that progression goes up into Crew Leader Level 1, Crew Leader Level 2, then Production Manager. And so, you know, it also. And this year we've been using it more than we have in the past of when, you know, guys come and ask for raises. Well, I want more money. It's like, well, okay, well let's look at the career ladder and see where you're at. Have you done the, have you done the things to move you up from, you know, landscape technician level one to level two? The same thing with crew leaders. And you know, and if they haven't, then sometimes the answer is, you know, you, you don't get any money. You don't, you don't get any more money or this is your cost of living increase. But if you want to move from this level to this level, then this is the pay range, which might be multiple dollars per hour, you know, and this is what you need to do to get there. And I think it's a great thing. And like I said, this year we've been using it more than we have in the past, so

[D]

that's excellent. And that's what I, I encourage because there's some companies I visit and if I, I'll ask them this question, I'll say if I'm entry level employee, I said, how do, what do I, where do I go to see what I need to accomplish to, to, to go to the next level. And if they can't show me something I'm as I, I kind of, then that's when I, I kind of guide them as, and say as an employee, I'd like to know, you know, what the, what's my time input and, and what's my opportunities here with this company? I think that's really important to, to do that. But maybe you have a, but you also, that's spending some time with your employees and get, and trying to, and see what their, what their hopes and dreams are. Because maybe it's, maybe they're fine, they're just gonna, they just need a summer job to mow lawns or drag brush and they're gonna, then they're gonna move on to something else. Great. We've got a place for you in the, in our, in our world and, and we, and we want you to be here because you know what his, maybe that employee will have such a great experience. His cousin or his brother. It will is send, they'll send him back to your company and say hey, go work for this company because they've got their act together.

[B]

Yeah, it's pretty cool. I've had, I have a neighbor, Alan and Carol and both of their children have worked for me. So Danny, throughout the summers of college he was a University of Tampa baseball catcher. Right. So full ride scholarship catcher. He's dragging brush in the summertime. And then his sister Carly, when she graduated college she was working for me last year, dragon brush and we taught her how to use a chainsaw. So now she's applying for out of state like camp counselor trail, nature Y type things and she's qualified to run a chainsaw and clear the trail because we taught her about hard hats and chaps and kickback. This is pretty cool, you know, having both of my neighbor's children go through the business. We got a couple minutes left here. Christopher and I have genuinely never heard the sharpen your axe analogy but you've worn a lot of hats figuratively and literally and you have another part time job of sharpening axes and educating and sharing of information which is part of the Florida chapter of the Isaac. So can you take a few minutes and sprinkle in some fine tune honing that we can put on our axes here?

[D]

So yeah. So you're. This is prescription pruning qualification is probably. You know when I first read about the prescription pruning qualification I got so excited because it is something that has been needed in our industry for decades. Not that this. So the information that is it that's delivered in prescription pruning qualification has been here for decades. We just haven't put it together in the package that Florida has put together. So with the help of Ed Gilman and in the Florida chapter ISA they have put together such a great qualification that and I have seen the just how hungry people are or arborists are for that this information and I think they're hungry for it because it gives them a very an excellent process for how to write prescriptions, how to communicate with your customer and how to also communicate with the producer. What I like to say is that your job proposal is not just a price but it's a plan, it's a commitment and it's also a document that helps protect you as a company. And PPQS is just, it's just wraps everything up in a. And I am excited to be part of it. I, I started in February as the prescription pruner Prescription pruning coordinator and to help because, because Florida has just been overwhelmed with requests. And so I'm, I'm taking some of that workload off of the director, Lori Ballard, and, and doing, and so meeting with hosts, helping them navigate, you know, what instructor, how do I get an instructor? What do I need to have? You know, what kind of site do we have to have? So I, I have those meetings with people, but I also just, I spread the word when I, when I go out. It's and, and talk. I'm doing a webinar at the end of the month with the Georgia Arborist association and on. And we're going to call it, it's called Stop Pruning Malpractice with a Prescription.

[B]

All right.

[D]

And it's an article I just, I recently wrote. You can find it in the TCI magazine.

[B]

Yep. That's super cool, man. I. There's a large home builder, it's called Dr. Horton. They're probably in a lot of states, right?

[D]

I think they, I think they were, they started in Texas.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

One of my, one, my first home that I bought in Texas was from Dr. Horton.

[B]

Is it still there or did it fall down yet?

[D]

It was, it's in Arlington, I think. Okay. I haven't driven by.

[B]

Yeah. So Dr. Horton is doing a development in the city of Tampa. There's 32 different lots on this little neighborhood development that they're doing. And they hired a consulting arborist to evaluate the trees and put together a pruning plan to prune the trees so the homes can fit there. All driven by the city of Tampa's code. It can't be done unless a certified arborist develops a pruning plan to make sure that the trees don't get jacked up when they build the houses. Okay. And a lot of these trees are grand trees. Being in city of Tampa, grand is defined at 32 inches DBH and bigger. Okay. So if it's 32 inches and bigger, the pruning plan has to be approved on the building plan. So I got emailed the entire developments lot by lot, PPQ prescription. So I'm reading through that we're making two 6 inch reduction cuts on second order branches. And then there was mocked up photos and I was like, oh my God, I can about bid this thing from my desk right here. It was to the T, the 2 introduction, cut the 10 inch removal, cut the first order. And I'm reading it, putting it together and I know the consultant that put this document together is a friend of mine. Does great work. Well, I'll tell you. His name's Ricky Pederica with dark moss. He's a landscape architect, certified arborist. It was he and Dalton and Elise put this together. And I'm reading this, I was like, oh my gosh. Yahtzee. Finally, I'm not having to develop a scope of work that is completely different to some other tree jockey developing a scope of work. And it's all 50 shades of gray over here. I got delivered a prescription that they needed a proposal on black and white. I was like, this is a best case scenario. So it made my job super easy. And then communicating that to the producers, the production guys, it's like, here you go. Copy and paste the link, read the prescription, look at the pictures. No one ever has to go there. Like itself manages itself. It's amazing.

[D]

Yes. And that's per. And that is prescription pruning. Once it's implemented, it is, it will save companies money. So you've heard Ed Gilman's story about Disney when they. So. So Ed shares this story in the prescription pruning qualification that when Disney discovered prescription pruning, it changed their world because they required all the contractors to know what to know the language of prescription pruning. And so when they're cut, when their bids came back, they were much closer together. Before they'd have bids from, you know, from here to just a wide range. And now all of a sudden they're narrow, they're dialed in. And so you're getting a much better. The contractor knows what to do and the producer knows what to do, which is amazing because most of the time they're like, where do I make that cut? They have to make that decision. The producer has to make that decision without that, without the prescription pruning qualification guidance, the producer has to make that decision on their own of where to make those cuts. And now we've taken that away. And what I call, you know, decision fatigue. I've taken away that decision fatigue. And, and so now they can go in, they can make those. They make however many number of cuts that is prescribed and they jump out of the tree. And they've done, they're like, I've done, I did what you told me to do. And they move to the next tree.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

So what I use a, call it a modified version of the formal PPQ. I use 80% of it. And I might not go all the way into the weeds on the first order, second order, third order, but

[D]

we

[B]

communicate very well with our team. But what I do like is if I miss something from the ground and my guys are aloft and they see something that they don't agree with what was written, it's usually because they want to do more. They might see something. Said Jordan, you didn't see this defect from the ground. I think we should make this 5 inch reduction cut here and then this lateral, take a three incher off the end to do a double reduction and hit this harder than what you said. I said well, why? Well, blah blah, blah is what I saw. Perfect. Do it so they can use the same concept. But then when they get aloft and they see something that they might have a better idea, we're not too prideful to overlook that. And I'm so received the feedback from the people that are hands on much closer than what I was from the ground

[D]

and, and you're able to do that because you spent some time training those producers and that I tell companies all this all the time. You can't just go get the prescription pruning qualification, roll it out and say okay now we're, this is what we're going to do. You've got to spend some time in the trees with, with those producers. So a sales arborist, producers, they need to come together, spend a day pruning and then even not, not just pruning that tree but then go visit, go revisit that tree in a year and look at the work that was done. There's so much value in that. But again we're investing time in our employees. It all goes back to that, investing time in my, in, in the employees and we're elevating their game and, and then we're also, we're also putting, you know, making our production much more efficient.

[B]

Right. And that's one of the things, it's calibrating the diameter of the branch. What is a 2 inch diameter branch really look like? What does a 3 or a 4 inch diameter branch really look like? And then who's got it wrong? Is the estimator from the ground saying it's a three inch reduction cut when reality it's actually four and a half to five inches because we're looking at it from 30 something feet away. That calibration takes work on the person making the cut and the person prescribing it. Is the prescription accurate to what is in my brain and what I'm actually trying to achieve? It's fun, it's playing and I, I like the finger inches that, the knuckle, you know, the, the ruler that Ed Gilman Shows you on, on the hand.

[D]

Well, in my article I, I took a picture and so I, I made some cookies and I wrote, I took a Sharpie and I wrote the, I measured the first, I measured the cookies and then I measured my hand and I put marks, I used the Sharpie and I put marks on my hand. So. And, and I encourage companies to do that. Make a wall full of different sizes. It'll do two things. It'll show so you'll, you'll be able to calibrate your size, but also it'll show. When does Heartwood show up? Because that should also. Because Heartwood shows up at different diameters for different species. So we have to, we want to know that as a producer, because I want to, I want to think twice about if I make this 6 inch cut. I know I'm going to introduce Heartwood. Is it really necessary or can I go back out, Can I go out on this limb a little further and maybe make a 4 inch cut to be knowledgeable about and make those decisions? Yep.

[B]

Super cool. Well, Christopher, I tell you for a Friday morning this was a hell of a way to start my day was driving to Gainesville, seeing Jason in person. We visited a job site this morning for some sports turf that you're top dressing and then we banged down this episode with you. You're in North Carolina. Me and Jason are going to record for the rest of the afternoon.

[D]

Asheville, North Carolina.

[B]

Asheville. Yeah. And then you're going to go crush Arbor Fest again and, and have a great day around a bunch of peers of arborists.

[D]

I might tonight there's, I understand that there's a foot locking competition so if they have a over 60 category, I'm in.

[B]

Oh dude. I hope that if it's there I want it to be live streamed. I would love to see that. I'll go to my local Hooters and see if we can live broadcast.

[D]

I'll see, I'll see how limber I feel when it gets tonight. But I've seen Mark. So Mark Chisholm is here. Yeah. Tim Walsh is here and so I know that there'll be some, you know, pretty, pretty hefty competition going on for the foot locking.

[B]

Ah cool.

[D]

I would, I wouldn't mind give. It's been a minute since I've foot locked before. Yeah. But I might, who knows, I may try it.

[B]

Yeah. If you see our friends at Single Ops, if Single Ops has a booth there, tell them Jordan and Jason say hi. We've. We've become pretty tight with those folks.

[D]

You know what? She just walked through. She just walked through here.

[B]

Which one was that?

[D]

There. I know they're here because Gran. It's the fate. I can't remember her name. She's always. She's on all their social media.

[C]

Amy.

[B]

Amy.

[D]

I don't remember her name.

[B]

Oh, if it's brunette Amy, she never.

[D]

I saw her. She walked through here.

[B]

Yeah, she never texted me back. Yesterday I texted her and she's ghosting me. So riser a hard time for that.

[D]

Well, she's here. She's here. I'll go. I will go. I'll go from here to their booth.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

And I will definitely tell her that. Jordan, hold on here, I'm gonna take a picture of you. I'm gonna show it to her. Okay, ready? There you go. I got it. Yeah, I'm gonna. I'll go. I'm gonna go take it. And so Jordan says hi.

[B]

Yeah, text me back, Amy. So.

[D]

And he wants to know why you don't text him anymore.

[B]

Boom. Yeah, that's it. And then Lizzy, Lizzie with tci. I had the privilege of hanging out with her for a couple of rooms. So tell if she is present, please give her my regards and let her know that we say hi.

[D]

I'm trying to think of what. I'm not sure. I don't know everybody or tci, but I'll. They have a booth here. Nate. Nate Gulak's here. So I saw. I already saw Nate, but I'll have to go stop by their booth. Yeah, that's on my agenda for today.

[B]

All right, well, Christopher, if you can help us in the exit of this podcast, if one of our listeners wants. Wants some information about tci, TCI accreditation, wants to save a beehive for a removal and needs to pick the brain of somebody qualified to do that, or if a listener would like more information about ppq, Is there a way that we could reach out, that a listener could reach out to you or where can they go to get more information that covers the topics that we went over today?

[D]

Absolutely. So I have, like three different email addresses, but I'm going to give you my. My kind of. My personal1. It's arborist strongmail.com. so that's. That'll. That'll reach me, and I'll be happy if you have a question about training, about documentation, about ppq, about bees, I'll be glad to answer those questions and help you out as much as I can.

[B]

Awesome. Well, Christopher, thank you for your time this morning. This was a treat and go enjoy the day in Asheville. Suck up Arbor Fest. And I will for sure see you in June at Trees Florida, if not sooner, at some mutual event somewhere.

[D]

I don't think. Yeah, I don't. I don't think anything else is coming before that. I think Treece Florida is. Is next. Oh. So I was just talking to Sarah. I guess at Trees Florida, there's going to be an ax throwing.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Event.

[B]

I am.

[D]

I am excited for that.

[B]

Yeah. I am on the Sharpening our act. I'm telling you. Yeah. I'm on the planning committee for Trees Florida. So we had our zoom meeting yesterday and we were going over the Tuesday night social. It's going to be a good. It's going to be a damn good conference this year. There's a lot of fun stuff. And it's the Florida chapter's 30th anniversary from 1996 to 2026. Yeah. So 30th year.

[D]

So you should let me get up and I'll. I'll give my Sharpening the Axe story at the. At the.

[B]

At the social. I have a microphone to hand you, Christopher. Don't worry about that. I will hand you a mic.

[C]

Well, Christopher, thank you very much for joining us today.

[D]

I love this.

[B]

All right, man.

[D]

I have enjoyed this thoroughly. Again, thank you for. Again, I'm pretty sure you're. This is my first podcast, so boom. This has been awesome. I look forward to maybe, you know, have me on again for a. A

[B]

round two.

[D]

A rerun. Let's do it for round two. I love it.

[B]

Yeah, I know your number, Christopher. You're not going anywhere. Neither am I. So we got it.

[D]

All right.

[B]

See you later, buddy.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

As you continue your journey toward entrepreneurial success, let Jason and Jordan be your trusted companions on this uphill climb. Don't miss out on future episodes of the Green side Up podcast. Make sure to hit that follow button to stay updated. For more ways to connect with the guys, check out the podcast description. Thank you for tuning in. And remember, keep working hard so you can play even harder and keep the green side up.

[B]

Sam.