Ep 132. Bar Graphs, Barge Fireworks, and Building Trust in Your Brand

Summary

Green Side Up – Episode 132

Bar Graphs, Barge Fireworks, and Building Trust in Your Brand
Hosts: Jason Lee & Jordan Upcavage
Release Date: July 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively post-July 4th episode, Jason and Jordan share stories from their holiday weekends—highlighting fireworks, community quirks, and memorable moments. They pivot to hands-on business advice: leveraging data to drive business decisions, optimizing payroll and cash flow, experimenting with technology like AI phone systems and virtual assistants (VAs), and building trust in your brand through consistent presence and service. Their blend of candid, sometimes irreverent, conversation is filled with real-world wins, lessons, and laughter for anyone navigating the "weeds" of landscaping and tree care entrepreneurship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fireworks, Community & Lake Life (00:56–12:10)

• Holiday Recap:
  • Both hosts decompress after a busy July 4th, with Jason remarking, "The week kind of went by fast. I was like, Monday sucked. Tuesday not so bad. Wednesday gone. Like, oh, it's Thursday already." (01:24)
  • Jordan recounts the ambitious community-funded fireworks show on Lake Magdalene using a "fireworks barge" (a stripped-down pontoon boat) that nearly didn't happen due to a last-minute staffing problem.
  • Laughter over the professionalism (and occasional chaos) of local fireworks companies: "The firework people have staffing issues too, and employee issues where there’s broken promises... or maybe there’s a leadership problem." – Jordan (08:40)
  • Heartfelt moment: "It was amazing. Kind of brought. I started choking up a little bit. It was so beautiful, all of this country. My wife was crying. It was an amazing thing." – Jordan (11:22)
  • Memorable Quote: "If there’s an option to buy an 8 inch mortar, buy them. And make sure you give yourself plenty of distance because it will rain down fireworks on you." – Jason (02:50)

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2. Practical Business Data: Bar Graphs & Cash Flow (13:13–18:47)

• Data-Driven Decisions:
  • Jason rolls out efforts to analyze lead and sales data spanning from 2020–2026, seeking seasonality trends to optimize marketing spend.
  • "I want to start making business decisions based on data in our business... when we're spending money, if we can track it farther and see results, then I think that could be big to our bottom line." – Jason (15:09)
  • Discusses the importance of visualizing trends via bar graphs for both inbound leads and quarterly revenues.
• Cash Flow Management:
  • Move to quarterly revenue tracking to match the realities of landscaping install jobs and the lag between invoicing and payment.
  • Shift to weekly payroll as a recruitment and retention benefit—though the hosts highlight the administrative costs and the unintended effect of ongoing payroll advance requests.
• On Weekly Payroll:
  • "We switched...every week we switched, you make a giant cash purchase called payroll." – Jordan (18:05)
  • "The guys like it. They see it as a benefit, which is one of the reasons why last year we had, I don't know, we had people applying and they would ask that..." – Jason (18:24)
  • "We just stopped. I just did. Two weeks ago, three weeks ago. Whenever it was, it's just like, oh, hey, can. No. Like, no. Like, we're. We're not a bank." – Jason (19:47)

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3. The Realities—And Headaches—of Payroll Advances (20:48–29:18)

• Both hosts candidly discuss becoming "the bank" for employees needing advances for rent, emergencies, or big purchases, and the management burden that creates.
• Notable Quote: "We get paid weekly, right? So, like, okay, well, it puts me in a spot where you're a good employee, I like you. But ... why are we waiting to the absolute last minute to go to the bank of Independent Tree Service and ask for an advance or a loan? ... I never want to, like, rub people's nose in shit. People get in a bind. I get it. But ... what decisions led up to this?" – Jordan (22:47)
• Various strategies are shared for tracking and deducting advances—from spreadsheets to automated payroll deductions—highlighting the administrative overhead and interpersonal complexities.

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4. Leveraging Technology: Virtual Assistants, AI, and Phone Management (29:18–39:05)

• Onboarding Virtual Assistants (VAs):
  • Jason updates on bringing VAs up to speed—shadowing staff and learning business systems.
  • RingCentral is being implemented for VOIP, backup AI phone services, and after-hours call handling, with discussion about where a "human touch" matters most.
  • Jordan asks probing questions about the limits of AI: "What does AI do? ... How would it handle that? ... So it's a filter. It doesn't solve the problem. It directs the problem to the right problem solver." (31:21–32:22)
• Cost Comparison: Ruby Receptionist vs. RingCentral:
  • Jordan details past experience with Ruby: "350 minutes for $1,175... it was $1,685 in an area where I have no leads..." (35:54, 36:49)
  • Jason highlights the affordability of RingCentral's AI: "$40 a month for 100 minutes... that's why I’m so intrigued." (35:16)
• Automation vs. Human Service:
  • Discussion about balancing cost, responsiveness, and customer experience.
  • "At that point you hire a VA overseas and that’s the cost of hiring a person full time to be a VA at that price. That’s interesting." – Jason (38:33)

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5. Streamlining Office & Financial Systems (39:26–47:03)

• Onboarding + Training:
  • VAs are shadowing, using Google Chat "huddle" for live listening to customer calls.
  • Debate over the value of video for remote training and morale: "If we had to buy a headset, we probably have to buy a camera... That's the human aspect." – Jason & Jordan (41:08–41:53)
  • Assigning more defined roles (e.g., Cindy as executive assistant in QuickBooks) and using system rules for rapid, accurate expense classification.
  • Exploring receipt automations and splitting transactions for cleaner accounting.

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6. Experimenting with Social Media & Data to Build Brand Trust (48:09–54:11)

• Data-Driven Marketing:
  • Jason aims to use Instagram analytics—and AI tools—to identify which types of content (time-lapses, equipment, education) yield the most leads.
  • Proof of concept emerging: "We are now getting... organic leads from our social media content... that's fantastic. So for me, that is kind of proof of concept that what we're doing." – Jason (49:11)
• Traditional vs. Digital Marketing:
  • Jordan wonders aloud: "Would three billboards on i75 accomplish the same thing?" (52:08)
  • Both discuss the psychology of trust and impression—whether from billboards or steady digital visibility.

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7. Building Trust—A Consumer Example (54:15–61:20)

• Memorable Consumer Story:
  • Jordan goes with Empire Today for flooring, purely based on long-term brand presence:
    "Look, I just rattled off the damn phone number because it's imprinted into my head for 25 years of seeing Empire today on television. So I called Empire..." (54:23)
  • Reflects on not price-shopping for services, but buying from the first brand that evokes trust, even if not the lowest price.
  • Breaks down the Empire business model and success.

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8. Neighborhood Drama: The American Flag Debacle (62:25–68:11)

• Community Mishap:
  • Jordan recounts the surreal fallout after hanging an American flag for July 4th at the common boat ramp. HOA president claims it's "not appropriate to force things like this onto everybody" (62:38) and that the flag is a "political statement."
  • "I was just taken aback by the fact that somebody found that offensive and was making such a big deal out of it when—that's not what it represents, man." – Jordan (67:39)
  • Jordan plans poetic vengeance: proposing a permanent, HOA-funded flagpole.
• Notable Quotes:
  • "If the community is going to force something so grossly inappropriate as an American flag at our boat ramp, that he does not want to be a part of the community association." (65:54)
  • "We live in America. We're all Americans. That's all I care about... I'm flying a damn American flag." – Jordan (62:30)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Fireworks Debrief & Community Barriers: 00:56–12:10
• Data-Driven Sales & Bar Graph Talk: 13:13–18:47
• Payroll Advances and “Being the Bank”: 20:48–29:18
• Technology: VAs & AI Phone Systems: 29:18–39:05
• Office Systems, Training and QuickBooks Upgrades: 39:26–47:03
• Social Media Experiment & Marketing ROI: 48:09–54:11
• Brand Trust: The Empire Today Lesson: 54:15–61:20
• HOA Flag Drama—Free Speech & Community: 62:25–68:11

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Notable Quotes

• "If there’s an option to buy an 8 inch mortar, buy them. And make sure you give yourself plenty of distance because it will rain down fireworks on you." – Jason (02:50)
• "I want to start making business decisions based on data in our business... when we're spending money, if we can track it farther and see results, then... big to our bottom line." – Jason (15:09)
• "We just stopped. Two weeks ago, three weeks ago ... we're not a bank." – Jason (19:47)
• "We get paid weekly, right? So, like, okay, well ... why are we waiting to the absolute last minute to go to the bank ... and ask for an advance?" – Jordan (22:47)
• "At that point you hire a VA overseas and that's the cost of hiring a person full time to be a VA at that price." – Jason (38:33)
• "We are now getting... organic leads from our social media content... that's fantastic. So for me, that is kind of proof of concept that what we're doing." – Jason (49:11)
• "Look, I just rattled off the damn phone number because it's imprinted into my head for 25 years of seeing Empire today on television." – Jordan (54:23)
• "We live in America. We're all Americans. That's all I care about... I'm flying a damn American flag." – Jordan (62:30)
• "If the community is going to force something so grossly inappropriate as an American flag at our boat ramp, that he does not want to be a part of the community association." – HOA President (65:54, as related by Jordan)

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Takeaways & Tone

The episode blends the realities of small business with humor, authenticity, and a down-to-earth take on everything from holiday shenanigans to serious operational tips. Jason and Jordan emphasize the need to be data-driven, invest in trust-building (internally and externally), and balance new tech with the enduring power of human connection. Their stories remind fellow entrepreneurs that amid chaos, community, and controversy, there’s always a way to keep the "green side up."

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Transcript

[Narrator]

Welcome to Green side Up, the perfect podcast for small business entrepreneurs looking to cultivate success in the landscaping and tree care industry. Join Jason Lee, a seasoned landscaper, and Jordan Upkavage, a true tree whisperer, as they share their wealth of experience and insights to navigate the challenges of growing your business. Get ready to hear real life stories, practical solutions, and invaluable advice that will empower you to thrive amidst the chaos of entrepreneurship. And now, let's keep the Green side Up with your hosts, Jason Lee and Jordan Upkevage.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yahtzee. We're kicking off the day. Well, we're winning this early.

[Jason Lee]

We are winning. We're winning very early.

[Jordan Upkavage]

We're on a trajectory of success all day.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, we are. We're doing our homework on the bus right now. And I would like to give a big thanks to Mr. Producer. I don't know if he's going to listen to this or if he's going to just process it as soon as we send it, but if you're listening today on Thursday, July the. I don't know what day it is today. 9th. July the ninth.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yes.

[Jason Lee]

We are recording at 5:37 this morning.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Hey, man, these pancakes are coming out hot.

[Jason Lee]

Hell yeah. Hot off the breastfeed. Right, right off the Blackstone.

[Jordan Upkavage]

What's. When they are fresh, man. When they are fresh. So I tell you, man, it is the week after a Fourth of July weekend. As you said, it is Thursday. And man, what a, what a week. I am ready for it to be Friday. And over it was, I tell you, Monday. I was very tired. I was exhausted after a Fourth of July weekend. And the, the week kind of went by fast. I was like, Monday sucked. Tuesday not so bad. Wednesday gone. Like, oh, it's Thursday already. All right. I'm kind of in a good mood. Everything's clicking right, right along. But man, let flying by here.

[Jason Lee]

That's going quick.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So what you got, Jason? So what's. So what is on the prefaces of your brain?

[Jason Lee]

So we don't need to go off on a fireworks tangent about 4th of July, but have you shot off 8 inch mortars? No.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Where do you find 8 inch mortars?

[Jason Lee]

They were at the firework stand next to the medians where we were landscaping last week before the 4th of July, which was a great success. Medians look great, but yeah, I was just thinking I had a black cat tent. Fireworks.

[Jordan Upkavage]

When you say 8 inch, you mean 8 inch in diameter, 8 inch long.

[Jason Lee]

So like it's, it's a, it's almost looks like a Stick of dynamite. So like every year, I think we've progressively been getting more expensive, bigger mortars because they're a little bit louder and they go up a little higher and then they boom. But dude, these things are bangers. I mean, and I think they were pretty pricey. We all chipped in and for the fireworks show at Fireman's House and. But man, whatever they cost, they were. Anyway, next year, if there's an option to buy an 8 inch mortar, buy them. And make sure you give yourself plenty of distance because it will. Will rain down fireworks on you.

[Jordan Upkavage]

But anyway, so I have, Yes, I have normally bought the biggest mortars that they have.

[Jason Lee]

Yes.

[Jordan Upkavage]

They're like that big around.

[Jason Lee]

Yep.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Like the diameter of a toilet paper tube, like the cardboard toilet paper roll, but maybe a tick fatter than that diameter. And they're cylindrical and they go boom. I'm trying to think of the name. It starts with a G, like gladiator or there's a sword on the package. Like the picture of a sword is on the package. It's black and silver print. There's a sword. And I think like, you know, the rectangular box of them. It's a big rectangular box. I think the box is normally like 200 bucks.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Is this fit the description?

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, but I think more pricey.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah.

[Jason Lee]

So I've been, I've been looking.

[Jordan Upkavage]

That's cool. You might have some Gainesville I've been

[Jason Lee]

looking at because normally I think they're selling them by like measurement of. Of powder, you know, by like grams of. Of bang in them. And so I did not look at these shells to look to get the. Anyway to get the grams of powder. So I don't know if the shell is just larger for show, but these things, anyway, they're bangers and I would recommend them to anybody next year for the fourth of July. So.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay, well, I, I'll look for the most expensive fireworks of the fireworks stand.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah. Next year.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I actually did not buy any fireworks this year, Jason. Fourth of July was on Lake Magdalene, where we live. And the very kind people of Lake Magdalene voluntarily donated money to their neighborhood bucket of money and hired a professional fireworks to put on a fireworks show. So each homeowner on the lake donated like 350 bucks. And then allegedly they had a $4,000 surplus of funds, so they bought even more fireworks. And the fireworks barge, which is a pontoon boat that just doesn't have any walls. It's a floating rectangle with an outboard motor and a chair. Is the fireworks barge A lot of homeowners have like a private boat ramp to launch in and out, but the lake is very, very shallow. That tell you I was water skiing out there with Sydney and the kids and ran aground in the lake because it's so shallow. Oh, yeah. But I tell you, Sawyer and Axley can water ski like little squirrels on YouTube behind a remote control boat. They're just popping right up and going and. Yeah. Anyways, so the lake is so low, not a lot of people can't use their own private boat ramps because there's not enough water in the lake to launch. But my community has a boat ramp, and it's the only boat ramp that has enough water to launch a boat on, so. And the people on the lake don't have access to our community boat ramp because they're not part of our community. So the Lake Magdalene people got in touch with me to use our boat ramp to launch the firework barge for the private fireworks show on Lake Magdalene. Psych. Of course you can use our boat ramp. So I meet the firework people down there. They back in this pontoon boat, and then they. They putz the pontoon boat to like three houses down to Todd hit to Todd's house, who lives on the lake. And the guy starts like building all of the fireworks and he has like crates with tubes and fuses and wires and he's like pouring gunpowder in tubes and like assembling it. It wasn't just like pre made boxes of stuff. He's like pouring things in tubes and wiring it together. And dude, this pontoon boat's probably

[Jason Lee]

as

[Jordan Upkavage]

wide as a pontoon boat is and probably 24, 26ft long. And you could not fit another firecracker on this pontoon boat. It was bow to stern, port to starboard, loaded. And the fireworks show was supposed to be on the 4th of July, Jason on Saturday. Supposed to be, but Todd got a call from the firework people that said, we can't do your fireworks show on Saturday, the 4th of July because we have a staffing issue. We don't have a person to run the fireworks show because they did not come into work. And when I'm over here supposed to let them in the boat ramp, I'm kind of, you know, say disappointed, but I was like, huh? So the firework people have staffing issues too, and employee issues where there's broken promises. I was like, I was like, or maybe there's a leadership problem. Maybe the owner of the firework is a grade A asshole and pissed off the wrong person.

[Jason Lee]

You know, and that's when push comes to shove. At least in our world, if we were so desperate, we could call labor ready or provider of temporary labor. But I don't think in the instance of a barge slap full of fireworks, they can just phone a friend and get somebody to fill in.

[Jordan Upkavage]

What are you labor ready? Gonna get you a firework guy that's gonna wire. No, right. Is labor ready? Gonna get you.

[Jason Lee]

So had they already. Had. They already filled the barge with fireworks?

[Jordan Upkavage]

No, Saturday, the barge never came. I'm there with the boat ramp. Hey, it's like 11am I've been down here for an hour. What's up? No, no boat. So I was informed at 2pm on Saturday, no, no boat. Just coming. So they said, we're going to reschedule it for Sunday. And another guy, the owner, I don't know the. The other person is going to come do it on Sunday. So on Sunday is when I met them and they wired it all together.

[Jason Lee]

Okay. All right. Okay. I'm sorry. I was jumping ahead. I wasn't clicking in my head. It's like, well, how do you. How do you know so much about the flipping part? Pontoon boat. If they didn't show up, you just blew them up on Sunday.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I. Yeah, I didn't do a good job laying out the sequen. I should have built it up and then. Yeah. Anyways, I did it backwards. Right. Oh, but there was a, like the local Hillsborough county fire marshal inspector, like, I'm sure they had to get permits for this stuff. So there was like the fire inspector guy, like checking everything out and on the shore, making sure that, you know, it was okay or if anything like catastrophically blew up, he could call somebody. It was interesting seeing that like per permit inspection side of things. But anyways, man, we. On Sunday, firework guy came and we went out onto the lake. Fireworks start at 9pm so me, my whole family, we had cousins in from Atlanta. So Sydney's COUSIN Alexis and two of her children that are 8 and 12, they were on the boat. Then Travis, Heidi and their kids, their three kids were on our boat. We putts out to the middle of the lake. Firework barge in the middle of the lake. And then boom, boom. And it was flat calm fireworks. I mean, these are professional grade stuff, giant ones, right. And then you can see the reflection on the lake. And it was amazing. Kind of brought. I started choking up a little bit. It was so beautiful, all of this country. My wife was crying. It was an amazing thing. Nice plant healthcare. Seems to be all the buzz in the green industry right now. Are you like many business owners that don't know how or where to start, or are you looking to add a new tool to your PHC toolbox?

[Jason Lee]

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[Jordan Upkavage]

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[Jason Lee]

Give Mitigro a shot for yourself. Their product is easy to apply and no special licenses are needed. Visit mitogrowpro.com to learn more. That's M I T O G-R-O-W P R O.com is now the time that

[Jordan Upkavage]

I tell you about the American flag or should we hold that?

[Jason Lee]

We should say that we should talk about something not. We should talk about something productive with our businesses.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay.

[Jason Lee]

That value to our listeners. So, okay,

[Jordan Upkavage]

well, what the hell do we have that brings value to the green industry business? Jason, man.

[Jason Lee]

All right, so last week we were talking about me onboarding our, our virtual assistants and we will. I will reference them as VAs. We're still onboarding. So I don't have any. Like, we haven't accomplished any great feats. But one of the first things that on Tuesday I met with them and we're gonna start besides them, just learning our business. That's the, that's the biggest thing that I wanna accomplish in like the first 30 days is in just learning what we do. Like learning about landscaping, learning what we do, how we do it, how the systems operate in the office. And then while they're doing that, like, I really want to start. We've collected enough data and I'm sure there's some quippy business term for it, but like tracking your numbers and learning from. From the data, it. I think it's going to be really big for us because we've been especially on sales. So for us, for sales, we've been tracking and I know we've been talking about sales this year, but tracking our inbound leads. So that's one of the first things we're going to do. It's like, okay, well, we've functionally been tracking since 2020, all of the leads that have come in for our design build portion of our business and estimates we've given. So, you know, it's like, okay, we have all that in Google sheets. I can scroll through and look, but I want to see it in a, in an easy, easy manner, easy platform. So it's like, hey, make me a bar graph. Just make a graph from January to December. And on that graph I said let's have a bar for each year. So let's start from 2020 and go year to date in 2026. And I want to see the seasonality of our lead flow because I think it's important for at least with my brain I want to try to grasp really I know what it is or what it's probably pretty close to and with the ebbs and flows of our lead flow and, and seasonality. But it's like, let's put it on paper and look at it. Like if we can really dial in to when we're busy, when we're slow, then when we're marketing and spending dollars in whatever fashion of marketing, whether it's boots on the ground and yard signs or spending money with intrigue on Google, like if we can start to try to spend those dollars in an educated manner based on when we're going to be busy. So maybe if, you know, obviously March is one of our busiest months of the year. So so far this year it's been our biggest month for leads coming in. But does that mean that maybe we should spend more dollars, you know, on March 1st or should we spend more dollars on January 1st? You know, I want to start making business decisions based on data in our business. So at least when we're spending money and then if we can track it farther and see results, then I think that could be anyway be big to our bottom line, biggest big to our growth goals and scalability of the business. So we're tracking that. We're also tracking. And it's hard for me to track revenue by month because a lot of our and be completely accurate is a lot of our install jobs. You know, when we're anyway it might be off a little bit. So we're going to be doing the same thing going back to 2019 and tracking revenue by quarter instead of by month. So I want to see the ebbs and flows of revenue also. And then with that then we can budget, we can budget better and then I can start also start managing cash flow better in our business.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So. So is that managing, you said revenue by quarter?

[Jason Lee]

Yes.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Is that from. For managing cash flow, is that from when you invoice or is that from when you receive the money?

[Jason Lee]

So I'm going to do it. I'm going to start by doing it on an accrual basis. So when we invoice. But now that you just said that to manage cash flow, we should probably look at it and see if we did it on a cash.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Those are two separate things.

[Jason Lee]

Okay, then I should do it on both because it might be when we invoice, you know, and that cash flow, the cash flow might lag by. Well, it's going to lag probably by 30 to 60 days. So then that's when you're. Yeah, that's when you really need to be making cashes. And it's not like we, we don't make any extremely large cash purchases. So it's, it's not that big of a deal. But.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah, you do. Every two weeks, you make a giant cash purchase.

[Jason Lee]

Every week, buddy. We switched. Every week we switched. Every week we switched, you make a

[Jordan Upkavage]

giant cash purchase called payroll.

[Jason Lee]

We did. We did.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I'm curious, what's, what's been the consequences, positive and negative, of switching to weekly payroll?

[Jason Lee]

The guys.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I know, I know the positive. The guys like it.

[Jason Lee]

The guys like it. They see it as a benefit, which is one of the reasons why last year we had, I don't know, we had people applying and they would ask that, like, that would be a determining factor for them whether they wanted to work here. They were going to get paid every other week or every week. And we have been on biweekly payroll for the first 15 years I've been in business. And it's, it's more expensive to run payroll every week. I don't know, it's costing me another four or five grand a year to do that. I don't know what it is. So. But that was the main thing. And so then in hopes with that, because we have been in. I'm willing to help our guys out in any fashion that we can. Whatever they need. I'll help you out. But the payroll advances have gotten out of hand. Like with me. So I work in payroll advances. And then Jen's office, and then she's soft, so.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, well, so. And so.

[Jason Lee]

Oh, I got loans. It's like, so we're, we're functionally running a fricking bank. Like at the point. So when Jen left, it's like, hey, we're not a bank. Like, we're not. She's like, oh, I set up, you know, These guys needed loans and whatever. And, like, we're running, and I'm watching what she's doing. It's like, oh, I set up all the deductions already in payroll, so at least we're tracking it. So way back in the day, like, I'd let people borrow money, and who knows if I ever got it back? Like, I wouldn't track it.

[Jordan Upkavage]

You didn't get all of it?

[Jason Lee]

No, we. We'd forget. So I just stopped. Like, we just stopped. I just did. Two weeks ago, three weeks ago. Whenever it was, it's just like, oh, hey, can. No. Like, no. Like, we're. We're not a bank. Like, we're not. Unless I can start charging interest rates, like the cash advance place, you know. Hell. And we're operating for a business, especially, like, hell, I'm operating on a credit line right now. Like, I. If I have money out on a credit line, I'm letting you borrow money. Like, that's not. That doesn't make any sense. Like, this is. This is not. Not a good thing to do. So we just stopped and. But part of the weekly payroll was to prevent that, so. But then it's still happening with weekly payroll. It's just like, you get paid every Friday. Like, I really don't. I really don't know. So. And maybe that's me being too harsh or being mean. I don't think so. Because at any other point, I'm still doing anything I can to help anybody, but it's like, we can't. I can't keep track of this. It takes too much. It's too much time out of somebody's day to deal with it.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So, yeah, man, it. We run payroll weekly, every Friday. Always have. Right. I didn't look at it as a benefit. It makes sense. I. In my world with blinders on, I assume most businesses pay employees every two weeks.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So whether you're a school teacher or you work at the mechanic shop or whatever you do, most people get. You're a nurse. My. My wife gets paid every two weeks.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So I think that's just kind of the norm.

[Jason Lee]

But I think. I think it is the norm. I mean, it's.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah, we've always done a weekly payroll. I didn't look at it as a benefit, but that's kind of cool. And it is more expensive because we have to process it twice as much. And there is a. A fee that we pay per billing cycle, per payroll cycle for processing it and delivering the checks and the whole deal. Oh, damn. I just lost where my head was going. Oh, but being the bank, I don't know. Well, I'll just tell you, Keon, if I'm out of line, then, all right, you got me. But for being the bank, they'll be, hey, Jordan, it's not I need 100 bucks. It's a rent is due, and if it's not paid by the third, I get a spanking. And if it's not paid by the eighth, it's an eviction. So it's, I need $800, I need $1,200, and we get paid weekly, right? So, like, okay, well, it puts me in a spot where you're a good employee, I like you. But I back up with what are. What are the circumstances that got us here? And you're telling me this today, which is payroll day, that I call in on Wednesday, so checks get delivered on Friday. You're telling me this today on Wednesday, the day I'm calling payroll in, and you need that money on Friday. And it goes in my head, I was like, damn it, why are we waiting till the absolute last minute to go to the bank of Independent Tree Service and ask for an advance or a loan? I was like, you knew this was happening yesterday. You knew this was happening two days ago. And it's like, damn it. Like, why are we waiting to the nat's ass last minute on the I'm jump. I've already jumped out of the airplane. I hope I have a parachute. And we go ask the bank of Independent Tree Service. It's like, well, what happens if I tell you no? And then it's like, oh, I don't know. It's a shit. I get evicted or I, I. It's like the world ends. So. And I try to ask in a. In a constructive way, like, I never want to, like, rub people's nose and shit. People get in a bind. I get it. But I was like, well, what decisions led up to this? Like, how did we get to this position? And it usually goes back to poor management of money and decision making of large purchases that were made for whatever reason that may not have been the wisest decision to make that purchase and just quagmire your money to solve an immediate problem, knowing you're going to have a larger I going to be homeless problem down the pipe, pretending it doesn't exist until the morning payroll's due, and it's the last option. It puts me in a weird spot because I like, you know, a lot of these people and other people need advances for other reasons. Right. Hey, Jordan, I'm going to buy a truck. I need a little bit more for the down payment to buy the truck. It's. And I'll hit you back next week. And I've g. This has happened. I've given somebody more than a grand and they bought the truck. And like two weeks later, they hand me more than a grand back. Like, bam, bam. Like, don't know where you got it. Don't know if you printed this money or what you did. But thanks for my money back.

[Jason Lee]

Pleasure doing business with you.

[Jordan Upkavage]

But what we do is when we have that deficit and we. I'll front them whatever the total is. Let's just say, Jordan, It's, I need $1,000. If I put in payroll, give Jason Lee a $1,000 bonus. Jason Lee really gets like $850 after taxes. So I would say give Jason Lee A $1,000 post tax bonus. Tell me what the total is. And then they're going to say that that $1,000 is 1,150 is what it cost after taxes. It's supposed to be auto deducted out of future paychecks where that employee pays taxes on the stuff. We take that $1,150 and we process that as how many hours it would take them to earn, and then we deduct those hours from future overtime. So, you know, Jason Lee, the next week you work 42 hours. You owe me $1,150. I pay you 40. And then whatever your hourly overtime rate is is what we deduct from that job total until you reach a balance of zero, and then you get your overtime back. Doing that makes it a long spreadsheet of, okay, this loan hasn't been paid back yet. And I've been tracking this for 41 weeks to get it back. So it's a million little cuts to get the money back. But it was the most efficient way and least painful way for an employee to reimburse me from that advice.

[Jason Lee]

Your voice sounds crazy. Sounds wild. Is it?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Because there's a lot that's a lot. It's too much of a pain in the ass.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah. At least with Jen. Like, Jen had a pretty good system where, I mean, if it was 500 bucks. Right. All right, we give somebody 500 bucks, we're going to take a hundred bucks out of the next five checks and we write him a check for 500 bucks and it's just a payroll advance. And then, hell, she was just setting it up. So it happens automatically over the next five Checks or whatever the terms are, whatever we, we would agree to. And then it's just auto deducted and it's deducted out of their net pay as a payroll advance.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So payroll takes care of it.

[Jason Lee]

Yes. Do you not have a payroll. You have a payroll company, right? Yes. Who do you have?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Southeast.

[Jason Lee]

Oh, so we got adp. It happens all automatically. Your. Sounds like there's a lot of stuff to track. It is,

[Jordan Upkavage]

yeah.

[Jason Lee]

And I maybe. And of course we've talked about. We've talked about this for years of like we're not doing this anymore. And then we always go back and help someone out. But I don't know if this is going to be my draw the line in the sand. But it's really. I don't know, it's. It's pretty painful to keep track of. And it's with a lot of people. It's the same people over and over again. And it's just like, why do you need the same amount of money over and over again? Like you just need to figure some shit out and, and get life in order. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's easy to say this, but I mean, get another job to supplement, you know, what you're paying back. I. It's okay. I. You and I work way more than 40 hours a week.

[Jason Lee]

Oh yeah?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't, it doesn't hurt my feelings if someone has to pick up. Hey, I work on Saturdays at whatever business for extra income.

[Jason Lee]

I help. A lot of my guys do, man, they're hustling. We. We got guys that they hustle on the weekends. They hustle. They got. They're running their own landscape business or car detailing businesses or like. Yeah, a lot of guys, buddy, they're hustling all the, all the time. So. All right, so with the VAS that we've got. We are.

[Jordan Upkavage]

That's what we were talking about.

[Jason Lee]

So with the VAs we are going to operate, Wylene is going to be back up on the telephone. And with that we are. I'm signing up with a company called RingCentral. So RingCentral automates telephone things, makes it easy to. For someone overseas to answer our phone. It connects phone numbers through the Internet. I don't know how, but that's what it does. And it also offers AI answering services. So that would be a question which we're going to utilize. So that's just kind of an added benefit at this point of. Sorry, the light. Light keeps flicking off. In the office here. There's an automatic.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Is it on emotion.

[Jason Lee]

Yes. Yeah. So then I got to stand up and do my dance. So I just did my dance. But the. With RingCentral, because we were. We've been looking into different platforms for an AI answering service for after hours. So after hours on the weekend, you know, that can just generally run through a phone script, do some data collection, have information for us. A lot of them say they can set sales appointments. I don't know if I would want AI to go that far. I don't think so. But if we can at least get enough information from someone and make them feel comfortable, maybe if they're going down the line calling landscapers, maybe they'll stop. It's like, oh, I already talked to Sky Frog, and somebody's going to call me on Monday if AI answers on Saturday. Yep. So, but then as they. As they pitched it to me, it's like, well, AI can just answer your phone all the time. I was like, oh, well, that's interesting. So you could have. Now, obviously, I would prefer Wylene when she's working to be the backup on the phone, but if I can have AI as a backup on the phone when she's not working, then that might be something that we set up so that the phone's always being answered. What are your thoughts?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah, but I. I'm going to. I hear it.

[Jason Lee]

I don't know how great. I don't know how good the AI is.

[Jordan Upkavage]

1-800-Sky Frog. Hey, Sky Frog, this is Jordan. Hi, Jordan. I'm AI. Sky Frog Bot. Hey, you guys are scheduled to do my landscape renovation on Tuesday, but I'm getting my septic tank redone for an emergency at the exact same time. Is that going to be a conflict with the patio that you have to build? What does AI do?

[Jason Lee]

Well, I would say. How does.

[Jordan Upkavage]

How would it handle that?

[Jason Lee]

I would say you would prompt it to any scenario if it's on a. And give it the prompts of. If it's a current. If it's a question about a current job, a question about billing, a question about, you know, give it a list of things. And if it's a question about a job, hey, I'm going to relay your message to a manager. If it's about billing, hey, I'm going to get with the office. If it's a new sales lead, then the new sales lead is the one that I'm worried about. So then the new sales lead, then it runs through a phone script of all the things that we want. So.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So it's a filter. It doesn't solve the problem. It directs the problem to the right problem solver.

[Jason Lee]

Yes, that's the way, that's the way I envision it. For everyone listening. This is a science experiment. I don't know. Obviously this is something we're doing and I will give whatever details from our science experiment, but how much was Ruby when you. Are you still using Ruby?

[Jordan Upkavage]

No.

[Jason Lee]

How much was it?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Ruby was it. It's. It got expensive by lots of little tiny stabs. Right? You pay by the minute. But we were paying. It got to like 15 to 17 hundred dollars a month is what we were paying based on minute usage. So I'd buy a bag of minutes that I was comfortable with and if I went over my bag of minutes, I got charged however much per minute, 50 cents a minute or whatever was at the time. But these invoices started rolling in at 15, 16, 1700 bucks a month. And this is while we have somebody answering the phone. This is all just spillover. A lot of it was solicitations, people calling to sell us whatever they want to sell us, or it was AI bots calling us. You know the phone you get, you answer and Nobody's there.

[Jason Lee]

It's 20 times a day, 30 times a day.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yes.

[Jason Lee]

My phone rings non stop.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yes. And so if it was a dead call, I'll get billed for 30 seconds of that. And it was so much that came in that we just said. And this was like when it was kind of slow, it was like through the winter and this was still when it was slow. And like, man, this is a $1,500 invoice. We don't want to have every single month. So we just turned it off. It was month to month. There was no contract because I know with the. I wanted it, I wanted it to work so bad. So with, for that potential lead to reach a real person.

[Jason Lee]

Do you remember how many minutes you would, you would buy or burn through?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, I think I was buying. I don't know. I, I can look at an email here. Maybe I was buying 350 minutes a month.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, I think our bundle, our bundle to start with, with the AI assistant is I think it's 40 bucks a month for like 100 minutes and then you can buy more buckets like you're talking about.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Tell, tell me that again.

[Jason Lee]

How much? 40 bucks a month for 100 minutes.

[Jordan Upkavage]

$40.

[Jason Lee]

$40.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Which is nothing.

[Jason Lee]

I know. That's why I'm so intrigued by Ring Central, because for that. It's because we got some other quotes from somebody local to build something, another agency. And it's, it's a significant amount of money. It's more. It's money like you're talking about with Ruby, you know, or a grand a month. And, and there are additional. If you go over those hundred and I don't remember off the top of my head what the price was per minute. So I asked above the 100 minutes.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So I'm looking at a Ruby invoice. This was, it says due October 15, 2025. I fired him in November. That's like when the world stopped turning was in October. Okay. So in October that like the faucet turned off. Like I'm not getting leads because I let people go at the beginning of November. This bill due middle of October, I was buying 350 minutes for $1,175. If I go over my 350 minutes, I pay 425aminute is what I'm paying.

[Jason Lee]

Whoa.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. So. And I'm already at 350 minutes. I went over 120 minutes at 425.

[Jason Lee]

Well, I think yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So it was 5 $510 penalty for my overage. So it was $1,685 in an area where I have no leads. So I paid damn near 1700 bucks. And I don't have shit to show for it other than we provided excellent human being interaction to people trying to sell us stuff.

[Jason Lee]

So I think and if you go out and call Ringcentral and I'm wrong, I apologize, but I think they said 50 cents a minute for the overage which would be probably be accurate. If it's 100 minutes for 40 bucks, you're buying a bundle. It's a smidge cheaper.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Do you want your office phone to ring more and increase service requests to your inbox? Want to push the gas pedal on your lead volume?

[Jason Lee]

Looking for a marketing company is don't hunting. And who knows how to select a marketing company that really works. No business owner wants to spend their hard earned money on empty promises.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Intrigue Media is your solution. Both Jason and I have partnered with Intrigue to help grow our businesses by simply making our phone ring more. Intrigue will build you an up to date website in record time. They had my website live on the Internet start to finish in under seven days. Intrigue will crank up SEO for your business, increase your organic Google ranking and even handle your paid Google Ads.

[Jason Lee]

Intrigue Media is fast tracking lead volume for both sky Frog landscape and independent tree service. You should give Them a try. For your business, visit intriguemedia.com if you want to make more money and crush your competitors online. That's intriguemedia.com but yeah, 425aminute. That's significant. I mean, at that price.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. Well, I bought them at $3.36aminute.

[Jason Lee]

Okay.

[Jordan Upkavage]

That was my package, 336. And then you go over and you get slammed at 425.

[Jason Lee]

Well, at that point you hire a VA overseas and that's, that's the cost of hiring a person full time to be a virtual assistant at that price. That's interesting.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I know, I know.

[Jason Lee]

I'm just doing a comparison. I'm very. This whole reality of, of leveraging people in time and technology I made, it's.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I don't know.

[Jason Lee]

I've got so much stuff that runs through my brain every day that.

[Jordan Upkavage]

No, you're right. This is a. Yeah, that's a full time person.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah. Or you just hire Christie someone to help or you don't worry about it and you just roll the way you're rolling. But damn, there might be something in the future when you get, you get busy again.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So I, I wanted to ask you. When you were training, we, you and I talked about onboarding your virtual assistants and that you're like, oh no, it's, it's ready to roll now. I, I'm not ready to onboard yet, but we gotta launch now.

[Jason Lee]

Still not, it's. We're in the second weekend. Like, I, I don't have time. Like, I don't have time. There's a lot of stuff I need to do. I've only had like one meeting with them and like, so Lindsey stepped in and Lindsay's doing a great job. She's like, well, what do you want me to do? I said, man, they can just shadow you. Like, so they stay on a. We're using Google Chat and so they're staying on Google Chat. Well, we're all linked into Google Chat. So if they have questions and, or anything they need, you know, Aaron, Aaron's kind of helping with onboarding also. And so we're there to answer their questions. But then Lindsey's in the office, so. And within. This is my first time using Google Chat. But then Google Chat has a feature called a huddle where you just. If you start a huddle, then you can just click on it if you're in the chat and then it pops up just like zoom and you're having a, a conversation like we're having right now over the Computer. So Lindsay kind of keeps them in the chat. And then as she's taking phone calls, if she's, you know, if we have web form submissions come in overnight, and she comes in, she'll get them on a call or a huddle, and then they're really just shadowing and listening to her. Run through phone scripts, talk to customers so they.

[Jordan Upkavage]

They can look at her. So it's camera, right?

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, I think so. I think so. I don't know if we have a camera on our office computer. We had to get a headset. We got desktops and monitor monitors.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Well, how do you shadow someone? I just listen to them maybe.

[Jason Lee]

I don't know. Definitely listening. I don't think we have a camera.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I would want to. I don't know. It would be weird if I'm just listening to this voice, this voice of God.

[Jason Lee]

We should probably get a camera.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Three hours for Lindsay.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah. I don't know if we have a camera.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I don't think I'd like to look at someone and smile.

[Jason Lee]

Let me put it this way. If we had to buy a headset, we probably have to buy a camera. So. Thank you. Yeah, I should probably.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Because, I mean, it's the human aspect. Let's say Lindsay get this wacko phone call and you have your virtual assistants and all they do are listening. You miss the facial expressions of, like, let's pretend I'm taking the call and you're listening. I could give you, like, the what the look to, like, what I'm listening to. That's the human aspect.

[Jason Lee]

My biggest takeaway from this week's episode of Green Sign up podcast is Lindsay a camera. And don't be a shitbag. Good Lord, I didn't think about that. Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And get your. Your. Your two VA's. A camera. So they can.

[Jason Lee]

They have. They have. They have cameras. So, like. I know, I know.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Because they're on the ball.

[Narrator]

Lord.

[Jason Lee]

So anyway, that's. It's all things we're working on. But. But no, they're. But they're. I mean, like I said before, they're. They're chomping at the bit. They're ready to go. So, I mean, giving the. Going through some of the reporting things and tracking data. I do have Cindy. We're starting to. Anyway.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Who's Cindy?

[Jason Lee]

Cindy. So Cindy and Wylene. So I can start. I can start referencing them by name instead of vas. But the. So Cindy's gonna be stepping in and more of the executive assistant role and working with me inside QuickBooks, receiving transactions, deposits. So we had some things to clean up. Bridget, our accountant, came in last week. I told her my goal at the halftime report at the, you know, of the year. I said going into July, I'd like to get everything caught up, cleaned up. And then with Cindy coming on board, I'm going to start her, you know, just going through our. Our payroll transactions. So it's like, hey, let's start. You have so much stuff to learn in our business with expenses and what. Where stuff goes. And luckily within QuickBooks, we have a lot of things that are just set as rules. So it's very easy to post a transaction. It's like, hey, this is going to be fuel every time. Great, just post it. It's done. You don't have to think about it. So. But just gonna take a little time for her to learn what's materials, what's equipment parts, you know, this and that. But we're starting out this week with payroll. We had a couple left to receive. Receive end as transactions. But with payroll for our budget and our P. L, you know, we're splitting on a lot of our transactions. We don't split because it's just materials, cost, or it's just the part that ag pro or whatever the scenario is.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Oh, so you mean I'm buying an alternator and a bag of fertilizer on one credit card transaction?

[Jason Lee]

Yeah. So then, like, you might split that, but we don't have a lot of ones we would split. And if we go to.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Or it's.

[Jason Lee]

If we go to home, if we go to home depot and we buy three bags of rock and a screwdriver, I'm not splitting that out like we're not there yet. Maybe we will one day. So but with payroll, that is a significant expense in our business. And that is something we're tracking. So we're breaking it out between, you know, we're breaking out direct labor, which is one of the most important things we're tracking. But then we're also classing that direct labor. So we'll break out direct labor, which is all field employees, administration, and our mechanic, because we keep track of that separately. But within direct labor, we're tracking maintenance, installation, irrigation, and fertilizer. So then we're breaking out that labor individually. So when I pull our P and L, if I want to look at it by class, I'll be able to at least separate it out by division and see what that is. So that's a little bit more. And it's still. It's still easy. But that was one thing that we broke out this week with her. So she's going in and Cindy's starting to receive transactions that are rules. I told her some of our most common material places. Anyway, we went over a list of nurseries. So it's like, hey, if you see these transactions from these places, it's always materials cost. You can go ahead and start receiving those. And so then I'm going to start working with her a couple times a week. And as we get more transactions coming through that and just letting her know where things go. And I think QuickBooks Online, I was thinking about this last night. I'm pretty sure there's a feature where you can scan receipts and it like uploads it into QuickBooks. So we're going to start doing that because then we're looking at a ways, like how can we efficiently get, you know, her the information she needs? So it's like, hey, with Home Depot and Lowe's, great. Now everyone needs to click the email receipt button so that every receipt is emailed. Like, and why we haven't been doing that because everyone loses receipts, I have no idea. But it's only half the time that someone clicks the email receipt button. So trying to streamline some things there.

[Jordan Upkavage]

How is the learning single Ops process going?

[Jason Lee]

I don't know. Lindsay's been. Well, they started watching the tutorial videos because we didn't have her shit together and didn't have anything for them to do. So they've watched the tutorial videos but then now. And I think it's probably a good thing that they started watching single Ops videos because we all, we use single Ops the way it fits our, our business. So there might be things that it can do that we're not doing. So they're, they're starting with whatever Single Ops wants you to know and teach. And then Lindsay's now going back through and showing them how we use it. So there might be something that they look at from the outside, an outside perspective and say, oh, well, we watched these videos and Single Ops says it can do it this way. Would that be better? Does that make sense?

[Jordan Upkavage]

Could live. Could live. Switch, play a role maybe in communication or like has Wylene's doing the. She's going to do the phone with the customer.

[Jason Lee]

Yes.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Right. Is there a need to like, record Lindsay doing it and then tell Lucky I. I am training another office personnel to answer the phone. Here's the script and that's the AI prompt that you tell Lucky to do what processes need to go in to better train this new hire that we have.

[Jason Lee]

Maybe, I don't know, it's worth an experiment. And hell, even with single single ops and AI like Ben, anytime Ben has a problem with single ops, he doesn't go to single ops to try to figure it out. He just puts it into chat GPT and generally it tells him what to do about single ops to solve this problem.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Chad has the answers of single ops.

[Jason Lee]

I guess normally he says it's solving what. I don't know what his problems are, so. But generally he's just like, hey, whenever I get a question about single, obviously I just put it in the chat GPT. So interesting. I'm also trying to go through. And anyway, my brain is very much on the data collection path with all things like including our social media. So I think that obviously you don't participate in social media and we do, but I think that it has a great potential. I'm seeing more. We are now getting, and it's not a ton, but when we're getting organic leads from our social media content, like we're getting calls, Hey, I want to refer this person to you. And I've watched your videos online and I think this is exactly what they need. Like, I got a phone call last week and that was the phone call. Hey, can I refer this person to you? Yes. It's like, great.

[Jordan Upkavage]

A client, I don't understand who called and asked.

[Jason Lee]

So a nursery grower in town.

[Jordan Upkavage]

A grower?

[Jason Lee]

A grower called? Yes. Well, he was just calling to make the connection, a direct referral, which is great if we're getting that kind of referral. Like, hey, let me check with you before I send this person to you. And it was a commercial customer in town, a commercial property. Hey, like, are you willing to do this project? And then it's got it. And it's, hey, I watch all of your stuff online and that's exactly what he needs. So it's like, that's fantastic. So would that phone call have been made if they weren't watching our videos? I don't know. But so for me, that is kind of proof of concept that what we're doing. And there's other instances that we're getting feedback of, you know, people watching our content, whether it's educational or it's the exact project they need that they're being seen. So in my mind, I want the best performance out of all the effort we're putting into content and social media. So I was trying to get ChatGPT to, hey, analyze our Instagram and tell me what's the best. What is the best video to make? What's the best? Is it time lapse videos? Is it equipment videos? Is it talking head educational videos like tell me the best. And so I haven't figured this out and chat anyway we've, I've been going back and forth with it and trying to import data from Instagram analytics and all this stuff. There's not an easy way to do it and it can't do it from looking from the outside. It needs to get information from the inside. So if I can figure that out then I'm very interested to see what, what it can produce with data and point us in the right direction because I really think that what we're doing on social media and producing content can get us pretty far in the marketing world. And it's, it does cost money. We are working with Sky Palm Studios. That's an expense. It costs money because we have cameras and we film internally. It costs me money every time Keith turns the camera on on a job site. But I think that that long term can pay more dividends than just dumping money into a Google Ad bucket.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah. So that's it's expense to do what you're doing social media wise for everything that you laid out not only is an expense, it's a lot of effort that you're putting into it. It's a lot of time. I hope it pays off for the amount of effort and time that you put into it and it might be the answer. I'm curious though, would three billboards on i75 accomplish the same thing?

[Jason Lee]

Man.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Billboard 1 Bam. Billboard 2 Bam. Sky Frog. Sky frog. Sky frog. Well how much does that cost? I don't know how many impressions you have to look at it.

[Jason Lee]

I don't know how much it costs but I've thought about billboards and like billboards in Tampa I think makes sense because everybody drives on the interstate. That's in Tampa. In Gainesville we do have four exits but how many people really if you're hopping, if you're traveling, I mean I use the interstate but I'm going from 39th Avenue to Newberry Road or I'm, you know, I'm going exit to exit. So like the chances of you actually getting someone local to see that billboard, like I think the Gainesville has a lot of. It's just traffic going through Gainesville on 75 where you guys. And in a city like Tampa I think that there's a lot of everyday.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay, fair point. When I lived in Gainesville I never used the interstate.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

All right. So are there other roads with billboards? For instance, Dale Mabry billboards everywhere is like, Are there billboards on 43rd? Are there billboards on University Avenue? There's one of their billboards near Hell Plantation.

[Jason Lee]

I should pay more attention. There's one on 441 and on Thompson Sod's property, or right next to it, which I'd love to have, but it's under contract with. Anyway, I've looked into it and it's not available.

[Jordan Upkavage]

It's under contract with Brightview,

[Jason Lee]

probably. So I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if three billboards would be better, if it would get more impressions. But I think that on the social media side of things and the content that you are building that. And even if the person's not ready to buy, you're building a level of trust. If someone's seeing your content and getting to know you that when they're ready to buy, you might be the first call. Or when they're ready to buy, hey, I'm using these guys because I now watch them. Follow them, whatever. Like, I think it could be. It's a long term. I think it's a long term play.

[Jordan Upkavage]

But so did I tell you I got floors in my office here?

[Jason Lee]

Congratulations.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Did I not tell you that?

[Jason Lee]

You said you were getting them.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I got them. Did I tell you where I was getting them?

[Jason Lee]

No.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Who was doing them? You want to see them?

[Jason Lee]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Let me. Oh, wow, look. Genuine floors, right, Man, I mean, the concrete. Concrete was nice. I mean, you could roll around on this roll each year, really nice on it. And you got nice, like leftover carpet glue on. On your feet, you know, a little white powder was really, really enjoyable. Well, it's interesting you say that about trust, right? And making an impression. So I need fake wood in on the floor, right? I need tile. I need luxury vinyl planking. I need some shit you snap together. Plaque, clack, clack. It looks reasonable, whatever. And I know I don't have time to do it, Jason. I don't have time to. I'm. We're all busy and I did not want to, I'm going to say, ruin a Saturday buying all this crap, figuring out how to do it, having to cut this shit and like it looking kind of janky when I'm done or spending so much time to make it anal retentive. Really nice when I'm done. I didn't want to screw with it, but I wanted to hire somebody. So where do you go to hire somebody to put floors in your house? And, oh, yeah, I have in laws or I have family coming in from Atlanta. They're going to be sleeping in this room next week. And, like, I better clean it up before my cousin comes with the kids. So I'm like, well, I got to get floors. I can go to Bob's Carpet Mart here and Internet it. And. And you know what I did? I was like, how about I just call Empire today? 1-800-588-2300, Empire. Look, I just rattled off the damn phone number because it's imprinted into my head for 25 years of seeing Empire today on television. So I called Empire, and they're like, oh, yeah, what is your room dimensions? And I told them, they're like, cool, I have a sales appointment open in your zip code tomorrow. It's like, sweet. Book it. So the guy comes over and he's got all his little different samples.

[Jason Lee]

We.

[Jordan Upkavage]

My Sidney picks one that is strikingly similar to the tile floor that's in the bunker. Looks fricking same. And he goes, well, you can go with this one that is good, or you can go with this one that is indestructible and lifetime warranty. I was like, all right, dude. Well, how much more is the indestructible one? He's like, it's like 700 more. I was like, do it. So the total for all the floors installed out the door was like three grand. You can probably buy the material at Home Depot for a thousand dollars and do it yourself, but not when I have family coming in five days and I need this shit done, and I need done right, and I don't want to do it. So the price for indestructible lifetime warranty flooring installed next week for three grand. I said, just do it. And maybe I'm wired differently. I don't like shopping for services. I would rather just get something that sounds reasonable and not have to get a second bid or a third bid because I don't have time for that. But, yeah, there was this trust of Empire today that was imprinted into me. And even if I called, you know, Statue of Liberty floors and their price came in at $2,600, it's. It didn't matter. Like, just get it done. You're gonna do a good job, or you would have been out of business and get it done. So you're. But the point I'm making is it's that level of trust that you're building because Somehow Empire made me trust them.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, or just staying in front of. They stayed in front of. They, they stayed in front of you for 25 years until you were ready to buy. You know, if we're on.

[Jordan Upkavage]

How much, how much money did they spend to get me?

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, but they're getting. How many. But then how many people are they getting all over now?

[Jordan Upkavage]

It must be working because they started in Chicago, they are nationwide, and their installers are subs. And I'm sure their, their salespeople are commission. They gotta be like some Roto Rooter stuff.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah.

[Jordan Upkavage]

And I was breaking down with the installer, like the prices of things. I was like, okay, well, your salesman's gotta be making, you know, 10% to between 8 and 15% is what your salesman's making. I was like, okay, so at three grand, call it, just pick 10%, call it. 300 bucks is what the salesman made. And the installer gets a percentage, and there's not a minimum. So I was like, all right, if you have 100 square feet or, or 3,000 square feet, it's the same percentage. He said, yes. I was like, oh, so my one room is a turd for you? And he goes, yeah, kind of. But I took the job and it goes out on the board. So you could be the installer and say, yes, I want to take the job, or no, I don't want to take the job. And that installer works for Empire. And for all I know, Bob's carpet Martin, he does his own stuff too, right. So you can take the job when he wants. And I said, okay, well, you're probably making. You make a cut of it. So let's just say you're going to get 10%. So you're making 300 bucks slamming these floors in today. I was like, so that's going to leave 80% that's left over for the business. I was like, well, these floors can't cost more than $1000 in materials. So we're at 1600 dollars in cost. That leaves 1400 dollars on the table for Empire. 1400 dollars covers the receptionist that I talked to in advertising. Empire's got to be killing it. And the installer was telling me that the reason, like they get the. What made them successful was the in home shopping experience of the samples came to them, to the consumer. And the consumer can look at them. And the fact that they can do the job so quickly because they have all the material in stock. They have all. They have shipping containers full of this crap landed here. I go to Bob's Carpet Mart. And I say, bob, I want to buy these floors. Like, okay, we can order that in for you. It'll be here in 12 days or it's all. It's. Empire has it in warehouse already with piles of this stuff. So they can just shop an installer, go get it and stick it in the, in the, in the room.

[Jason Lee]

Interesting. Yeah, I like it. All right.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Enjoyed it?

[Narrator]

We are.

[Jason Lee]

We're at an hour.

[Jordan Upkavage]

We're at one hour.

[Jason Lee]

I'm. Next time you and I do an episode, I don't know if we're going to have some other interviews for next week. Aaron and I are being inducted today as president and vice president of the Front Runners chapter. So I might have some FNGLA updates.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So you will be a. I. I can refer to you as Mr. President tomorrow.

[Jason Lee]

Tomorrow, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then Jenny P. Jen Parrish, who's the now the state president, Ginny P. Is coming up to swear sin or whatever ceremonial things are going to be done. So maybe I'll have some updates on fngla.

[Narrator]

And then I'm.

[Jason Lee]

Next week I'm going to a CRESS event in Orlando. And CRESS is battery powered handheld equipment and auto mowers and we don't have time to go into what we were going to talk about, but that'll be for another episode. But before we leave, you need to tell me about your American flag. Unless.

[Jordan Upkavage]

So I.

[Jason Lee]

Unless we don't.

[Narrator]

I.

[Jordan Upkavage]

In a nutshell, Jason, fourth of July weekend. I don't care who you are, what you look like, your orientation don't care. We live in America. We're all Americans. That's all I care about. I'm down at the boat ramp. Fireworks, barbecue, water skiing, put up an American flag at the boat ramp. Travis, Navy combat veteran, has a gigantic American flag on a metal pole and we hang it on the oak tree. Giant American flag. American flag up. Everyone having a dandy. Nobody's talking about money, religion, politics, none of that shit matters. We're just celebrating 250 years of freedom. I get a text message that goes out to the board of directors in our hoa. I'm one of the board of directors. Our president says, who put up the flags at the boat ramp? And I'm going to have to read exactly what this said because I was taken. Was taken aback. We have. Before putting this out to the whole membership, I just want to ask the board first. Did any of you place the flags down at the lake lot or are you aware of who did? If so Please remove them or ask the person who put them up to do so or let me know and I will ask them. We need to remember that the lake lot is jointly owned by all 40 homeowners and properties. And it is not appropriate to force things like this onto everybody. Buddy. Thanks. Name President. And I, I. Me and Travis did this and I was taken aback and I said, travis, the Navy veteran and I placed the large American flag on the Tree to celebrate 250 years of this great nation. We are all fortunate to live in such a free country where. Where we can speak freely. And then the whole neighborhood starts jumping in on this and everybody says it's fine, it's the American flag. It's fine. And the president says that it is infringing on his free speech, that we are imposing these values onto him because it is jointly owned property. And this spills over into America. Is disgraceful. Disgusted that the American flag is a resemblance, is a symbol of the Republican Party and that we are infringing political beliefs on him. And it was just the most deranged. What the hell are you talking about? Nobody mentioned politics until you mentioned politics. And that you can't force me any screenshotting Google Gemini about the first Amendment that nobody can force him to fly an American flag. And I said, dude, you're right. Nobody can. This is your house. Don't fly a flag if you don't want to. This is a community damn boat ramp. I'm flying a damn American flag. And it was. It's my free speech to say that. So it was an entire cauldron of shit of all the board members. Just what the hell are you talking about? And the irony is we have a board meeting coming up on the 23rd in his living room. And so I am feeling that. And he ended up saying that if, if the. If the community is going to force something so grossly inappropriate as an American flag at our boot ramp, that he does not want to be a part of the community association. So I am prepared. Yeah, I am prepared that our president is going to quit his position or he will be marched off the plank because this guy's just freaking delusional. And I am. I don't want to be president, but there is another neighbor who is a board member that I think would be great. And I side texted him, I said, guo, I think you'd make a great president of our community. Would you like a nomination? He goes. And he's in this. He's like, jordan, it might be ready for a change. I was like, just get ready, because I think shit's gonna hit the fan.

[Jason Lee]

I think someone with that mindset should just move to another country. That's.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Yeah, if you don't, you can get it through. Freedom to leave if you want, man. Yeah, but this is crazy. This was a symbol of, you know, America. This had nothing to do with any of this political stuff. Like, you've been watching the View too much, dude. Like, none of this, none of this was of discussion, and you brought it up, and it couldn't be farther from the truth. I don't care. Republican, Democrat, Libertarian. I mean, I'll cook you a hot dog and give you a beer, dude. Like, we can still, like, fist bump and. And go fishing together. I'll take you water skiing.

[Jason Lee]

Totally don't care and run it and run it.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I love this country.

[Jason Lee]

Run aground and run a girl.

[Jordan Upkavage]

I'll take you running the ground. You want to go running around? We'll go run aground. So anyways, that I was. I was just taken aback by the fact that somebody found that offensive and was making such a big deal out of it when. That's not what it represents, man. So I'm going to propose that we put a permanent flagpole down there and the community fund it, because the community has money. So that'll be extra salt if his money helps fund that. Or maybe I'll self fund it.

[Jason Lee]

But, yeah, I like your mission.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay.

[Jason Lee]

Okay.

[Jordan Upkavage]

We're done for the day.

[Jason Lee]

Yeah, we're good.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Okay. Well, you have a great day. I'm going to a city of Tampa bid. Have a mandatory bid meeting at 9am so me and Miles, I'll let you know what happens. See if we make some money. Okay, bye.

[Jason Lee]

Later.

[Narrator]

As you continue your journey toward entrepreneurial success, let Jason and Jordan be your trusted companions on this uphill climb. Don't miss out on future episodes of the Green side Up podcast. Make sure to hit that follow button to stay updated. For more ways to connect with the guys, check out the podcast description. Thank you for tuning in. And remember, keep working hard so you can play even harder and keep the green side up.

[Jordan Upkavage]

Sam.