← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Amari Williams Arrives, Jrue and Rob Return to Boston, and the PATS Return to the Super Bowl!
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- [00:00]
A
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D
This is Mike Gorman and you're listening.
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B
To Green with Envy with Will and Greg 102 to 94. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about your New England Patriots back in the Super Bowl. We've got that. And we're going to do a check in on the NBA standings just to get everybody caught up to date. Take a look around the league. We got all that and more coming up next here on Green with Envy. You guys know the deal. Lock in. What up, what up, what up, what up. Welcome into another edition of Green with Envy. This is a Green with Envy post game live. Coming at you immediately following a Celtics 10294 victory over the Portland Trailblazers. It was a homecoming for Drew Holiday and Rob Williams, which funny enough, they were once traded for each other and now both having a homecoming on the same night, that's just, that's just how it be sometimes. As always. Boy. Will, we're checking in. How you doing? How you living? Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Manakis. Greg, if you had to give me a favorite Drew or a favorite Rob moment, what's, what's the first thing that, that jumps out to you?
- [02:04]
D
Drew Holiday. It's got to be, I think it was the, the clinching game against the Mavs right in the, in the finals. If you just go back and rewatch that first quarter, in that first half, Drew Holiday is the most impactful player on the floor. I've gone back and rewatched that game a few times and he is the reason the Celtics got out to such a great start in Game 5 against the Mavs. That whole series, he was great. The whole playoff run, he was absolutely nails from the corner. The nem hard steel which they showed in the tribute. I think that's probably the play that stands out to most people, but for me it's the way that he played in game five, first quarter, where he really set the tone and said, you know what? We're running the championship tonight.
- [02:46]
B
Yeah, I think the nem hard play is the individual play that I think of. But. But really it's the postseason run, because especially what a person is going to. I can remember Poisonous went down game two or game three in that Miami series. And then it really became like, okay, we've. We've wondered, like, what happens if this happens? Because, you know, Porzingis played, I think, like, 57 games. Like, ah, it's not that bad. That's fine. That's all we needed. Like, we're good. He's already in the playoffs. And then when he wasn't, and then it was like, all right, who's the third scorer? Who's all this and that? And really, once you got past, I think Drew had maybe a bad game, like three or four, and then it was like the end of the Miami series, through the end of the finals run, through the end of winning the championship, he was just straight up awesome. Right? And so that was the Drew Holiday that I think I will. I will probably the most consistently remember is that playoff run, Drew Holiday, because I just feel like he consistently set the tone, made a bunch of big plays, and it was everything that we were, like, we weren't sure of was still there. With Drew Holiday, it was. It was there in spades. And it's. Honestly, it's probably what put him on the. Or back on to Team USA and got him a gold medal. Right. Is seeing that type of performance too, where they're like, we gotta have that. You know, when we get into the. When we really get into the mud, he's the guy that you want to have in the foxhole. So I think that's, for me, what sticks out. And then with Rob, it's interesting. I'm trying to think if there's a specific Rob moment. I think it's just the. The energy that Rob brought, and I felt it a little bit. I thought Rob looked pretty good tonight, to be honest. I like the way Rob was. Was moving, which was really good to see because this is the. His third year in the Blazers. We talked about this a little bit a few episodes ago, going through some trade candidates. He was linked to a Celtics rumor, so we talked about it a little bit. And he's basically played, like, around 60 games since he left the Celtics two and a half. A little over two and a half years ago. And so this being the first time home or away that he played the Celtics. There was times where you just knew he was lurking. And he has that quick leap, man, where he just gets up and you didn't even think he was, you know, his. He may not even had his hands up properly, but he's so quick that he would just get to these balls that you just didn't. Didn't expect him to. And so I think it's the. Like with Rob, it's more of an energy and an emotion than it is maybe a memory that's jumping out to me. But is there anything that. That you're. That sticks out to you?
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D
Yeah, I mean, it's got to be the Lob Williams hoodie for us specifically, personally.
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B
Yeah. Right.
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D
Where. Where we. For those of you that are newer to the show, back when we. A few networks ago, we had sent Rob a hoodie that we made as our nickname for Rob was Lob Williams. We were the kind of the originators of the Lob Williams nickname. And we sent Rob a Lob Williams hoodie that he ended up wearing to one of the games. And it was so funny because Rob was like, so young and naive that he just, like, responded to our DM on Instagram and gave us his home address.
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B
So we, like, looked it up, knew exactly where he was. We. We could. We could have popped by.
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D
And I'm glad that he's no longer doing that. He should not be giving out his home address to random people on the Internet. But yeah, I think that was my fa. My favorite moment. But in terms of his play, I remember when DeAndre Jordan first came into the league and my brother texted me and he was like, man, like this DeAndre Jordan dude. Like, why don't the Celtics ever get super athletic big men like him? And Rob was the first guy where. I remember when we got Rob, I texted my brother in response, and I was like, we got that DeAndre Jordan type. We got the guy, the. The vertical spacer that we haven't had seemingly in two decades. Right. Like, even KG wasn't that, like, quick leaping to the rim, vertical spacing type of guy. Like, you know, before that, it was it like Mikey Moore, like these, like.
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B
I mean, I'm trying to think there really wasn't like, any super athletic bigs that we had.
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D
Probably the most athletic. Right?
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B
Yeah. That's sad.
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D
Yeah, we just, like, didn't have. And like, these, like, really athletic bigs, they. They were much harder to find back in the day in like the early 2000s, like you. That's why Str. Miles Swift was such a big name earlier because everyone was like, oh, my God, this dude jumps out of the gym. But, yeah, that's probably the. That stands out with. With Rob. Will. I do want to go back to the Drew playoff thing, though, because as you were talking, I think you're misremembering how bad the beginning of the playoffs was for Drew. So in his first three games against the Heat, he had six points, nine points, three points. And we were freaking out, and we were like, where is Drew? Where is the Drew Holiday that was the second or third best player on the Milwaukee Bucks championship team? And we had plenty of podcasts where we were like, drew Holiday needs to step up. Drew Holiday needs to step up. And then he didn't crack until the first game of the Indiana series was his first game over 20 points in those playoffs, where in the Cleveland series, he. His second game against Cleveland, he only had four points. I think that was the game that the Celtics lost in that Cleveland series. So it was. It was up and down. It was down at the beginning of those playoffs, for true. But he really brought it towards the end. When you go into the. The Eastern conference finals and the NBA finals, he puts up 28, 15, 14, 17, 12, 26, 9, 10, 15 in that game. 5, 43 minutes, 15 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists.
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B
Yeah, the Indiana. And Dallas Harris, he was on an absolute heater, right? Like, that was the. The tear that Drew Holiday went on, and it's when the Celtics just really, really needed it in those moments. And I know obviously you look at those series now, and, like, if you just look at on paper, it's like, oh, they went 8 and 1. They steamrolled like that. That wasn't what happened. Those were really tough, tense games. And of course, we saw the next year, Indiana took OKC to seven games in the NBA finals with essentially a very similar version of that same team. And then Dallas, of course, got disbanded because the whole Luca trade, you may have heard, so you know what I mean? Like, but everyone. But there was a lot of people that were picking Dallas in that series. That wasn't a series where it was the Celtics were just going to steamroll everybody. And, yeah, that championship likely just doesn't straight up happen without Drew Holiday. That's the biggest thing. Celtics are champions because of Jrue Holiday. However, he is now a Portland trailblazer. And Greg, Celtics win this game, 102 to 94 today. And really, I mean, thank God the Celtics went off in that first quarter to, you know, go up, I think, 32 to 11 at the end. Because these last three quarters, I, I really enjoyed watching this game, even though it wasn't the prettiest game. But the way the Blazers fought back in this game I thought was actually really, really admirable. The way that they play, they're just a kind of a. A really tough playing team and they, they probably. They out. I think you can probably say they outplayed the Celtics in the last three quarters, but it was just too much of a deficit from that first quarter for them to climb back up. Where do you want to start here? We can go into the Celtics box score here a little bit. Is there anywhere particular that you want to go first?
- [09:51]
D
Yeah, let's just go chronologically through the game. So you mentioned the Celtics got off to that big start. Holding. Holding. The Trailblazers to 19% from the field. 4 for 21 in the first quarter. Going up 32 to 11 with the first of two Payton Pritchard buzzer beaters. He was the player of the game.
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B
Dude. It's been a minute since we got a.
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D
He had one games ago. He had one a few games ago. So. Yeah, yeah, he did. So now he's. He's start. No, I think it was like 04 seconds, but it, it wasn't like technically.
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B
A buzzer beater, but was pure like these two were. Which is great. Having two in one game. Pretty rare.
- [10:28]
D
Yeah, it was pretty great to see Peyton back, but then he hurt his finger at the end, which is a little concerning. But yeah. The Celtics go up 32 11. They hold them to 4 for 21 from the field. Just not much happening there. And you really felt the absence of Denny Advi in this game. He's there, he's there. Do everything guy on offense. And you know, there's a lot of Drew Holiday, Jeremy Grant, like Kayla Love trying to do stuff off the bench, but they really just don't have much once you take away Denny Abdia and you felt that because Celtics have a great defense, but they don't have a hold you to 11 points in the first quarter. Great defense.
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B
Yeah, that's. That's a little bit rough and, and to your point, like that's a big Deniabia hole that you could, you could really notice in this game and potentially if Scoot Anderson ever comes back, maybe that's a hole he feels too. But Scoot hasn't played all season, so who, who knows what's going to happen there. And so with the Celtics team, you know, they got out to that hot Start. Jalen Brown had a really solid overall game here. Didn't have his usual big scoring numbers, which we can talk about here in a minute. Part of that was, was the BL defense and you know, it really was, you know, Peyton Pritchard was the guy who kind of got going for the Celtics a little bit. That gave them, I think the enough juice here offensively. As you mentioned, finger hurt late in the game. We'll have to check. It was already wrapped up actually before he got hurt and then it looks like may have re injured that late, but you know, he finishes with 23 points, 8 of 16, 5 of 11 from three. Derrick White was an interesting case tonight, Greg. You know, 18 points but eight turnovers.
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D
Like what is up with D. White, man?
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B
We got to get him to February. That's, that's. I was watching the game and I was just like, right, we got to get Derek to February, man. I, I don't know what some of those turnovers were like really, really bad.
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D
And the Blazers, you know, the, it's, it's. I don't want to make excuses for D. White because people always make excuses for D. White just because he does so many great things on the court. But the, the Blazers are super physical and the refs were letting them get away with a lot, right. And D. White doesn't handle, he doesn't have point gu. So when you're up in his jersey and you're pressing him three quarter court and refs are allowing you to, you know, grab his shorts and grab his arms or take away his little like half spins that he does, which basically get him up the court, like he just spins his way all the way up the court and it's like he, he's not a pure point guard. So the Celtics are asking him to do a lot of pure point guard things. And this is where you feel the absence of Jason Tatum, right, who can bring the ball up against pressure. And you're never worried he's going to get ripped at half court. And everybody else on the team right now aside from Peyton Pritchard, you're a little bit worried when you see them go up against full court pressure. Did a really good job with it. Simons.
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B
Yeah, he had a, he had a stretch there where there was about three straight plays where I'm surprised looking at the box score right now. He only has one turnover, but there was about three straight possessions where again, I've said this before, it felt like me driving dribble through pressure just like I hope to God this ends up in a scrum that I can get the ball, ball, two hands on it and give it to somebody else. That's all. My only goal is to get two hands on this ball and give it to somebody else.
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D
It's funny that people like Drew I think was going for steals on Simons because he knew how loose his handle was. But the key to going up against Simons is you don't go for steals. You just beat him to the spot and then he like kind of gets flummoxed and he can't really, he doesn't have that strong like recovered dribble. He, he kind of has to do everything fluidly. But D. White, man, like the amount of text messages I exchange that are about Derrick White and like hitting the panic button on this dude right now because I just don't know what's going on with him.
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E
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D
He's so sure handed, right? Like the one thing you can count him with Derrick White is you give him the ball in the half court, like he's going to get you into something good and he's probably not going to turn the ball over. He had a game from hell tonight, man. And it's just like to your point, get him to February. He did hit a couple big threes in the fourth quarter, which was nice to see, but I mean this was.
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B
Similar to the Chicago game. He was awful. In the Chicago game they hit a couple shots in the fourth quarter. So it kind of made his, his, you know, box score stat sheet look a little bit better, but it was pretty bad for the first three quarters against Chicago. And, and I, you know, I think honestly the answer to your question of what's going on with Derek, I think it's, it's. Unfortunately, it's pretty simple. Is being the number two is too big a burden for him. Like, I think that's probably the, the ultimate answer here is that he needs to be slotted down. And it's, of course, on certain nights. And this is the thing that we see when this team is whole in years past, right? Like, oh, JT's out for a night, or JT doesn't have it for a night. Cool. JB can slot up. The difference is JB is a lot when he slots up. Like, he, as we're seeing, he can just be that slot, right? He can just be that guy. Derek White, for a night can be your number two or this is kind of his superpower. He could be your three, four, five and be super, super effective in those four or five positions. But it's being your number two night in and night out that it's just taking its toll. I mean, tonight he only shot four threes, which was a credit. The Blazers really obviously put a lot of emphasis on taking away the three point shot from the Celtics, especially after that first quarter. But I can at least appreciate. And again, I'm doing the thing that you just talked about. I'm trying to find, I'm trying to bring up the silver linings with Derrick White, is that he shot four threes and he didn't do the thing that we've seen him do in certain games this year where he has 11 threes on a night where nine of them didn't need to be shot.
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D
Right.
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B
Like, he didn't do that. So there's, there's that credit. But. But yeah, it's, it's, it's rough. I'm, I'm trying, man.
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D
Yeah, yeah. But I, I think what the, the more salient point here is what you mentioned about being able to slot up and how hard it is for a guy who's not that guy to be that guy for a consistent period of time. Which is why what Jaylen Brown is doing this season is so damn impressive because we all thought, we all knew Jaylen Brown could step up for weeks at a time in the absence of Jason Tatum, a game at a time. We just hadn't seen him do it for an entire season. And that's Just a really tough thing to do. Not many guys can carry a team for an entire season like Jason Tatum, even himself. Like he needed Jaylen Brown Brown multiple nights to step up because he can't carry a team for an entire season. Very few people can do that. Jalen Brown is doing that this season. And even tonight where he was 8 for 17 from the field. So not bad there. Only only took three threes, three or five from the line. He has 20 points, eight rebounds, four assists, four steals. And he's going up against possibly the best wing defender in basketball. And to Moni Kamara, who's super physical. Once again, the refs let him get get away with a ton of stuff. He's grabbing, he's flopping, he's doing his Marcus Smart impression. As I texted you in the game.
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B
Great, great. Just for the audience, I texted Greg, I think Tumani Kamara is an offensive grifter or is the first offensive foul grifter. And Greg, to his credit, immediately called me out. My dude. We rooted for Marcus Smart for a decade. I was like, oh, he invented the offensive griff. Never mind. Yeah, yeah, I have to walk this back.
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D
Yeah, you had to walk it back. But Jaylen, I thought that was one of the more interesting things. We'll get to Amari Williams here in a second for everyone who's just. Who's like, why aren't you talk about Amari Williams? Because he was awesome tonight. But the Jaylen Brown Tony Kamara matchup, going back to that first matchup in Portland where Jaylen lit him up in the first half and then Kamar put the clamps on him in the second half where Jaylen was just ran out of gas on a night where he needed someone else to step up. Jaylen versus Kamara was so fun to watch because they clearly don't like each other. They were talking Jaylen, but two possessions before he got the technical file. They were matched up on a. On a free throw for. For a rebound. And they were talking. And then Jalen went full court right at him and scored. I think he had a little fade away in his face. Then two possessions later, that's when Jalen got the technical. But you could see that thing brewing throughout the game because Kamara is just up in his jersey. Reminds me of a lot of Ron Artest in the way that Ron Artest used to defend Paul Pierce. Not like as tough as Ron Artest is, but as annoying and in New Jersey as Ron Artest is, which is probably what Marcus Smart was.
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B
Yeah, for sure. And to money, Kamara was. It's 100 what he was. I'm still, I can't believe I just completely ignored that. I then texted you like I, I. And this is appropriate with Rob Williams coming back because he was traded the same time as, as market smart separate deals. It feels like it honestly. And I don't know if this is just me. It feels like being that era of Celtics basketball was like a decade ago. It, it feels far more in the past than three years ago. And I don't know if that's because as soon as those guys left we had that like a abbreviated two year window with the Porzingis holiday, you know, cornet whatever. And now we're already transitioned. That maybe just in my mind it feels like that was like a five year gap. But yeah, but to money Kamara is, you know, known around the league one of the best defenders. And so watching him and Jalen go at it again, like I said, this wasn't the prettiest game you could definitely find some games that were more undertake, you know, that are probably higher on the approval scale of most fans. I enjoyed watching this guy. Like I had a good time watching this game tonight. I kind of like these games where sometimes it's like you really gotta fight for everything, right? And it's probably one of those games where if Danny Obvious plays, I don't know if we win this game because the Blazers didn't have enough offense, if they had enough juice, we probably lose this game. But you know, you mentioned it and I think we do gotta, gotta get to this point here because he's been a recurring, let's we can call it on a low, low level here, recurring star. The last couple games here or has been at least of note has been Amari Williams. So Amari Williams comes in at the end of the Brooklyn game, doesn't play at all until the very end of the first overtime and then plays the whole second overtime. Makes a couple of really big plays. I think. Actually let's just start here. From that Brooklyn game. What's your favorite? Because there's about three or four Amari Williams plays. What was your favorite Amari Williams play from the, from the Brooklyn game? Game.
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D
Dude, I'd be lying if I told you I remembered anything about the Brooklyn game besides that it went into the double ot, which I did. I watched the fourth quarter and both overtimes of that game. You go first and then maybe that will jog my memory.
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B
So my favorite was, I think this happened at the end of the first Overtime it was the. Remember that old school Valparaiso Bryce? Oh yeah, that tip pass of Pritchard on the wing, that was. That was my favorite. You know he had a couple other moments in the, in the over in second overtime which he had to.
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D
And one right. He had to end one right in the big block.
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B
Those are kind of the three things that, that I was really thinking of. But so he has that moment. He gets to start the next night in Chicago. You know that kind of. Kind of mixed bag there as to how that goes. But then tonight comes back out. There's no Luca Garz apparently like a sickness going through the Celtics. Multiple guys listed as out illness, non Covid related. So definitely the, you know the flu or something going through the team. And so it's really just Kada and Amari Williams tonight. And so we got to see what that looked like. And Amari Williams actually played more minutes than Cata who to be fair also still listed as sick on the, on the scouting report. Part of the reason that Amari got the start in Chicago as well. But Amari pretty impressive tonight. Just played just under 26 minutes, 3 of 8 from the field. Finishes with nine points, seven rebounds, a steal, two blocks and yeah, give me your, give me your. Give me your Mari Williams thoughts, Greg?
- [23:09]
D
Okay. Earlier in the season he had a spot game against the the Pistons where he played really well game really played really well against the Pistons. He blocked Kate Cunningham at the rim a couple times and was just, you know, he was a problem for the Pistons. And it got to the point where I was wondering why the, the next few times we played the Pistons he didn't get any burn because I really felt like he was able to handle the phys of. Of what the Pistons brought. And he's just huge, man. He's seven feet. He's a former. I think he was one of those guys that like grew later in life. So he, he was like a point guard when he was younger. And you can see the passing skills have really translated. I don't know if you remember this, but before the season I did text lip tac and I did put this on the bingo card where I said Amari Williams steal. The draft hype is going to end up happening, right? Because I really liked what I saw out of his college tape. I really like what I saw out of him. Just like just playing earlier in the season I was like, this dude can actually hoop. He can't shoot for, but he's a great passer. And the way that the Celtics are running offense this year where they're dumping the ball into the big man, like around the three point line and around the elbow and having people cutting off of him. I think that fits his skill set really well. So I'm interested to see, you know, on the two way. I forget how many games you're allowed to play, but he is one of those guys. Yeah, yeah. I'm interested to see if he's one of those guys that gets converted to a standard roster spot because that would then make him eligible for the playoffs. You can't play in the playoffs if you're a two way player. Right. So that's something to think about. Will the Celtics make a move or do they say, let's just ride with this Amari Williams kid and see what he can do? Probably not going to happen just because he's so young and inexperienced. But I, I like the kid, man. I want to see him get more minutes, especially over the next two weeks. You got to see what we have before the trade deadline.
- [25:04]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the two way thing probably factors into if they can pull something off at the deadline, then it's probably a definite no. If they don't, then it's like, well, we gotta at least consider it. Because to your point, I was at that Pistons game when he first got that look and it was part of what was maddening because that was around the time Joe was really leaning heavy into the all right, fight. If we don't have Keda, we're just going wings. I'm not even. He was. This is when Luca Garza wasn't even playing. Right. He was. He had taken Luca out of the.
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D
Josh mining at the five.
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B
Right. Exactly. And, and I remember being like, okay, listen, like I, I see what you're doing here, Joe. Like, I get it, we're down, but like we're getting killed on the boards. Can we just throw Amari in for like two minutes? He played great. Like he kind of deserves it. And I think two things like from that game. Number one, you see Joe against the Nets going to. Hey, like so at the end of that, at the end of regulation, right? Just. I'm kind of jumping all over the place here. But it's all. It's going to be Amari Williams centric, I promise. But like at the end of that Nets game in regulation, to me it really highlighted the why we can't get by with Luca Garza, like in an actual playoff series. He had a great, he had a really solid offensive game up to that Point end of that game when Kada fouls out and granted there's plenty of offensive stuff the Celtics just like didn't execute that could have saved that game from going to overtime. But on the offensive end, the Nets were getting shots. What they were doing is getting offensive rebounds and put backs that were getting them to the overtime. And that was because they would get Luca, you know, out in the perimeter. He couldn't recover. Athletic bigs crashing and, and they're a.
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D
Super big, long, athletic team too, right?
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B
Exactly. And so with Amari it came in and that kind of didn't fully negate it, but at least it, you know, it evened it out a bit. Right. And I think you saw to your point. You mentioned Amari's toughness. What jumped out to me was late in the game tonight, I think about four minutes or so were left in the game. And you know, Clingan who had I think like 15 rebounds tonight or something like that, he had 15 rebounds, four offensive. He was, his, his physicality was, was kind of wearing and Keda also being sick just, just really wasn't up for it. And so he went to Amari Williams. So it's clear Joe sees there's a use case for Amaru. This is the greater point that I'm getting to. And yeah, I'm with you. I've liked what I've seen so far out of him. I think you're gonna have to go through some growing pains. And so it makes it really tough to envision that by the time we get to the playoffs being on a two way deal, he's going to be someone that's truly in the mix if we truly think that we're going to be something. Right. And there's.
- [27:41]
D
Here's my question, Will, here's my question because I think the point that you brought up about Luca Garza not being a playoff player, which I, I've said multiple times on the pod before, right. If you know Luca Garza is not going to be able to hang in a seven game series against a super physical athletic team, you play Amari Williams and you convert him to a standard contract and you stop messing around with Luca Garza even in the regular season for as much as we have. Right. You have to see what you have because Luca Garza is not going to be able to hang in a seven game series against the best teams in the league. Amari Williams, although he's very inexperienced, isn't that much like less experience than Luca Garza. Just because Luca Garza hasn't played that much in the NBA, right. Amari Williams is a. He's an older rookie as well. He's a physical freak. Seven. He's a legit seven. Seven feet, seven foot one. He can pass, he can screen, he can rebound. He can block shots. Like, what else do you need out of your backup big man at that point? And this is props to the Celtics big man development team because he already looks worlds above where he was terms of just, like, being able to handle the. The intricacies of the Celtics offense and defense at this point. Like, he was great tonight on both ends of the court. So the instincts are there, the talents there. I just want to see him play consistent minutes leading up to the trade deadline before we make a panic move for somebody, because there's no reason why, like, we would have to trade Anthony Simon choose his report that came out for someone like Nick Claxton. Like, there's no reason why Amari Williams two years from now can't be what Nick Claxton is. You know what I mean? Like, no one saw Nick Claxton become the guy that he is. Amari William seems very similar physical makeup. I think he could be the same type of player.
- [29:23]
B
Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I. I don't. My guess is the Celtics don't play it that way. I think you're probably right. I think, honestly, like, as you were going through it, like, why, in my mind, why wouldn't this just turn into the bigs version? And I think Kate has kind of established himself that if he's healthy and available, he's playing roughly 25 minutes or more if he's playing well. Ever since single night, like Keda. Keda has. Has solidified. But I think when it comes to that backup spot, there's no reason to me why this doesn't have kind of the same Ugo. Jordan Walsh, Baylor Shireman split right where night to night matchup dependent. Like, maybe some nights Luca gets 20 and, you know, Amara Williams gets five, six, seven minutes. Maybe it's flip. Maybe it's more split depending on, you know, whatever. Whatever's happening with the. With the particular matchup. Like, I. I don't see why. Why that shouldn't be the case. Like, I think that makes the most sense to me because I don't think you can completely lean into Amari because I do think with Luca, it's a little bit like the. It's funny enough with Rob Williams here. Stevens used to all. Brad Stevens used to always kind of lean a little bit more Tice than Rob at early on because he was like, I know Tice is going to give me like the, the iq. The there's a certain level of consistency. Right, right. Even though the ceiling at times, especially in the bubble when we were like, yo, it's higher with Raul. We gotta like gamble a little bit and go for it. I think on a much lower scale we're talking about a similar type thing with Amari Williams and Luca Garza right now. It's something to that effect and so you have to kind of keep both in. But I do think I'm with you. Like all three big men are healthy. I would like to see some form of a split rotation between the three.
- [31:06]
D
We haven't done it in a while. Will, what's the the power rankings on the Celtics young wings?
- [31:11]
B
This is a good time to do it. Josh Minot healthy again tonight or healthy tonight for the first time in a couple of weeks here. Unfortunately he's got to be at the bottom of the totem pole. There's just no question about it has been been out with an injury even before that was was trending downwards. This is a really interesting time to do the Ugo, Baylor Shireman, Jordan Walsh ranking. Jordan Walsh only played three minutes tonight. Baylor Shireman plays 1260. Ugo plays 14. Snubbed by the way from the rising rising stars, whatever the they're calling it these days. No, no. Ugo Gonzalez on All Star Weekend. Shout out to Ron Harper though. Ron Harper Jr. Brother of Dylan Harper, as Greg just found out recently. Shout out to Mrs. Harper if you know, you know. Okay, back to the rankings here. Power rankings. I mean I think I'm gonna go ugo at 1. Been really good lately, man.
- [32:06]
D
It's in the moment. In the moment.
- [32:07]
B
Yeah.
- [32:07]
D
You're not.
- [32:08]
B
I'm gonna google Shireman Walsh and that and that kind of, that kind of irks me because I, I think Walsh should be getting more consistent minutes. But I, but I can't really justify it, I guess so I don't know. Ugo, Shireman, Walsh, what I'm going with. How about you?
- [32:24]
D
Yeah, same man. Charman's, Charmin's been great lately, dude. I've been liking what I'm seeing out of him. And I think Joe, just like you were saying where like each game is going to tell you what it needs. Like tonight was a game where we needed just a little bit more creation, a little bit more on offense because of how great Portland is on defense. Right? Like you can't have Jordan Walsh out There, like there's this one play. Will. I think I want to say it was in the, it must have been in the first half with Jordan Walsh on the court. But the ball ends up with Jordan Walsh in the corner against. I think it was Jeremy Grant. And you just hear somebody yell out, and I think it was Jaylen yelled out your world, as in Jordan Walsh, go ahead, go one on one. And Jordan Walsh took one dribble and then immediately passed the ball out to Payton Pritchard. And I just started howling, laughing. I was like, did I hear that right? Did someone just tell Jordan Walsh to go one on one against Jeremy Grant out of the corner, like, dribble into his left hand. Like, that's not going to work. And Jordan Walsh knows it's not going to work and Joe Missoula knows it's not going to work, so that's why he goes to Baylor. Sharman. I think Baylor also doesn't have like the, the high end defensive impact that, that, that Walsh has, but he's very much like Daniel Tice. He's always going to be in the right position, plays great positional. Defense is really sticky coming around screens, great screen navigator. So Charman does a lot on the court. Ugo is just everyone's favorite right now. So, Hugo, unless Shireman has a stretch or Jordan Walsh has a stretch like he did earlier in the season where he was like the Celtics second best player for a week, it's gonna be Ugo at the top of those power ranges.
- [33:57]
B
What did, what did Jordan Wallace shoot for like a week and a half? Like 80, 75.
- [34:00]
D
Yeah.
- [34:02]
B
So, Greg, actually, I, this is, this is a good time to bring this up. I had the thought it wasn't tonight. Maybe it was one of the games over the weekend. But Baylor Shireman to me, feels like the best candidate for. If there's a guy on this team that's gonna have a Kelly Olenek game, a Grant Williams, I love that game. Gonna have a Shrek and Donkey game like it's Baylor Shireman where just in a, in a big spot over a course of a series. Joe's still doing like everybody's getting, you know, 10, 15, 5. And at some point Baylor's just gonna like whatever the matchup is. It's gonna dictate like, hey, Baylor keeps earning these spots. I also think he needs to be the trigger man on all inbound plays at the end of games. He's, he's. I think he's the only guy I trust inbounding the ball to to make the right decision. I love him as the, the late game in. I think it's going to build up over time and I can just, I can already see a 20 point game six, game seven Baylor Shire. I mean he hits like six threes. Has, you know, he had that nice tip in tonight after, you know, after a miss layup. Like he has like a big tip in. He makes diving on the floor. He, he does something like funky that just stands out. Like takes an important charge.
- [35:14]
D
Yeah.
- [35:14]
B
And just fires up the. I, I just, I thought about it this weekend and I was like, he's the guy guy. He's the guy that if there's that role player, big game moment, it's him. I just, I'm calling it now. I, I can see it in my mind.
- [35:31]
E
Not to brag or anything, But Arby's new 7.99 meat and three box is kind of a big deal. The other guys give you just one side. We give you three sides not to brag. You get a meaty sandwich, curly fries, mott sticks, a sweet treat and a drink all for just 7.99.
- [35:47]
F
It's more meal for your money. More meal for your money. More meal for your money.
- [35:54]
E
Where'd that come from?
- [35:55]
D
Arby's.
- [35:56]
E
We have the meats and participating Arby's.
- [36:00]
C
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- [36:32]
D
I know we overrated Marcus Smart when he was on the celtics and we're underrating him now. But like when I watch Baylor Shireman out there, I'm like, man, like he's basically just Marcus smart. A lot of the stuff that he does, especially like Marcus smart. Now, Marcus in his prime was unbelievable. Defensive player of the year, obviously. But like Baylor, he does so many things that remind me of Marcus. And that is, that is a compliment to Baylor and it's a compliment to Baylor. I don't want to take any shots at Marcus mar because he's had an unfortunate time since leaving the Celtics and he's forever in, you know, in our, in our hearts in Boston. But, but Baylor shman reminds Me a lot of Marcus smart. I'll just leave it there.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah, I've been enjoying Baylor lately, man. Like I said, I, I really in my heart of heart thinks Jordan, think Jordan Walsh can be the most consistent guy. But Baylor's been really good, so I can't, I can't say you should be taking minutes away from Baylor Shimon. I can't say Ugo doesn't deserve minutes after. Man, what a shot from Ugo the other night. That was electric. That was, that was absolutely electric. And you know, you texted me and you were totally right. Like, hey, I've been asking Joe give me something a little more creative of at, you know, end of game. We got one shot here. Loved it. Loved everything about it. Shireman is the trigger man. Didn't force it to. Jalen found Ugo in the corner. Hugo super confident, knocked it. I love that. As he let it go. Hauser knew it was good. You saw Hauser just raise his hands way before it goes in. Just a, just a great moment. Great, great coaching job by Joe. It was.
- [37:59]
D
Did you also catch? Because I went back and re. Watched that.
- [38:02]
B
That.
- [38:02]
D
Did you also catch that? Joe Missoula like potentially made Trotro, whatever the kid's name was, missed the free throw too.
- [38:12]
B
No Traore or whatever his name.
- [38:14]
D
Yeah, yeah, that was way off on the name. I sound like Mark over here. But so to, to go back to that game, right? Traori is going to the line to. To ice the game. He had just hit two free throws. He hits the first one and Missoula goes late sub and he brings Amari Williams into the game. And that late sub leads to like a 15 to 20 second delay where Tre Ori's just sitting there on the line. Celtics players are like going back and forth across the free throw line. They ice him. They ice him. Go back and watch it. It's really impressive. And then he does the Ugo sub. So those two plays in succession, pretty spectacular stuff out of Joe Missoula.
- [38:54]
B
Hey, it was a great job by Joe. I think, I think everyone got a little over their skus where they're like, this is his coach of the year moment. It's like, guys, we're playing the Brooklyn Nets. They have like seven wins this year. This can't be the coach of the year.
- [39:05]
D
Brooklyn Nets, though. I will say, I will say I feel like I'm pretty good at spotting the teams that are going to be good in two years. Like I said it about the magic, I said about the Pistons. I don't know if you remember that a few years back.
- [39:17]
B
I remember the Pistons one. That was, that was, that was spot on.
- [39:19]
D
I also called it with the Thunder and the Pacers a couple years ago, where. And part of it is because, like, they just play us tough, right? I'm not like, like doing rocket science here, but like, they play us tough and I'm like, damn, I really like that team. There's something spunky about that team, the Nets, if they get the right piece, whether that's through the draft or free agency or a trade, I think they could be sneaky. I love what they're building over there. They've got so much size, so much defensive versatility. Noah Clowney is one of my favorite players in the league. I'm excited for, for Nets fans, for the five of them that are out there, to see what you guys have in a couple years, because I think they actually might be good in a couple years.
- [39:57]
B
Years. So if the Nets draft, trade or sign for somebody else, really, really good, they could be better. It's a good analysis. That's good stuff, man.
- [40:07]
D
Like the Pacers needed, the Pacers needed Pascal Siakam, right?
- [40:11]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:11]
D
So like someone, someone along those lines.
- [40:14]
B
Yeah, yeah, no, I got you, I got you. But you have been, I'll give you this. You, I, I take your opinion, you know, very seriously when you, when you say, hey, this is kind of catching my opinion because you've been, you've been spot on with some of those early young teams that then kind of go to that next level.
- [40:28]
D
Sm. Continue to smell my own farts real quick because I think this is a good transition. I don't know where you were going, but I'm going to transition for you. I'm going to take over the hosting duties for a second here because earlier in the season, Will, what team did I say was going to be the surprise of the Eastern Conference?
- [40:44]
B
Well, I'm assuming we're going to go start taking a look at the standings here and I'm going to say that's your third place in the Eastern Conference. Coming fresh off a win in okc. The Toronto Raptors is who you're talking about.
- [40:57]
D
That's right, baby. When I feel something, I feel something. When I have a feeling, I have a feeling, baby. And you see the Pistons up there. So let's take a look at the, the standings right now. Pistons first place, 33 and 11, five game lead over your second place Boston Celtics, who are now 29 and 17, five games back. Toronto Raptors in third place, 29 and 19. New York Knicks, 27 and 18. Those are your home court advantage teams in the playoffs right now. Rounding out top six, we had the Cleveland Cavaliers at 28 and 20 and the Philadelphia 76ers playing good basketball at 24 and 21. Those are your top six. Let's pause there. Any surprises, Will?
- [41:39]
B
I mean, the Raptors are the surprise. I mean, the Rap, I mean, Raptors and Celtics, like, those were teams that I, I thought nobody was. You were on the Raptors, but I thought most people were, were like, ah, Raptors afterthought. Like, I thought the Raptors were going to be in the same bucket as the Celtics, which was going to be somewhere in that 5 to 8 range. Like, right. That's kind of where I thought the Raptors would be because I just looked at them and I was like, okay, their top seven is like a really good group. I don't know if they fit, but they were really. It's all good players. Right? Like, that's how I kind of looked at it. And I thought it was the same with us, but maybe we fit a little better. So I gave us the edge. But I mean, I think it's got to be us. Plus the Raptors are the two biggest surprises. Cleveland starting to get right a little bit potentially here. I think that's interesting. And then something that I've been trying to monitor here as we've been talking, shocking is there's a, there's. So it came out after the Celtics game today. Nothing definitive, but I think Mark Stein had some reporting that came out here. You know, we've been talking to our guy Liptac here. Nick's kind of free falling in a little bit of a panic, getting kind of fed up with the Carl Anthony Towns experience. So Mark Stein has a couple of reports that I'll have to dig into more. So I'm just reading it high level here from, from Twitter, as we're live here. But behind the scenes, Knicks officials have tried to downplay any notion that Crown Towns could be traded during the season of mid New York. York's January struggles. However, a belief persists among some rival teams that Towns is in play to some degree or that the Knicks at the very least, have tried to get a sense of what his market would be. And this is coupled with one of their main targets being who the Celtics just played tonight, Drew Holiday. So it's a little, it's interesting to hear. The Knicks, who, if I, if you had to pick right now, who would you say? Comes out of the. Like, pretend everyone, every team, team is as they are now. I mean, the Celtics don't get Tatum back. We don't know if they trade for a center. So every team is as they are right now. January 26th. Give me the two teams that you think are. Would end up in the conference finals, regardless of ignore, like, seating and matchups.
- [43:38]
D
Which is who I think. I don't. I don't even need to ignore it. I think it'd be Celtics and Knicks.
- [43:43]
B
Interesting. Okay. I think it'd be probably. I think it'd be Pistons, Knicks right now, as it. As it currently stands. But I'm. With my greater point being, I think it's still the Knicks. Yet we're hearing all this panic of, you know, what's true, what's not true, we'll find out. But we know that from a fan base, we have enough connection to, you know, Macri and that crew, you know, Alex and the Nick fan TV crew. I see all of their comments. I see our guy Lip Tac talking to him on the golf course. Him. Him texting us. Like, mentally, the vibes are not good there. They're not good at all. Even when they win, they're not good. When I was. We were talking about.
- [44:19]
D
I love it. I love it. It's awesome. Patriots are in the Super Bowl. Knicks are Nicks or Knicks are falling or their pets. Heads are falling off. Like, all that stuff, and it's great.
- [44:28]
B
Hey, Pat's back in the super bowl, man. I. I've been texting with a few people. I so get why everyone hates us.
- [44:36]
D
Can we just go there? Can we just go there?
- [44:38]
B
Let's just go there. The standing Celtics, second place right now. We'll have plenty of time to hop back into that. Let's. Let's wrap this pot up here. We're talking a little bit about the Patriots because being a Patriots fan, especially after everyone was just so excited for the demise of the Patriots and for us to have to come back to the reality of most fan bases for the last, what, six, seven years? It's. It's been. Which is crazy because that's so not that long of a time. In sports years, right?
- [45:10]
D
It is a long time, but in sports years, you're. You're 100, right?
- [45:13]
B
Right. Yeah. And so being back in the super bowl very quickly, we are back to being the villain to all sports fans. And it just translates from, you know, the Patriots. The Celtics won a title two years ago. The Celtics are consistently in the conference finals in the final Four Red Sox haven't been up to stuff, but have won four World Series. I think that's still more than anybody since, you know, 2001. And I just, you know, I feel like I can't even fully celebrate except in my specific Boston sports threads because I just really, really understand why everybody fucking hates us.
- [45:54]
D
I know we're supposed to, like. I know. M. Our friend M. Shout out to our friend M, who might be listening right now. Shout out to M. She's planning on having a Super bowl party. She's a Bears fan. And like, the Bears lose in the playoffs in like, really sad fashion. Now we're unexpectedly in the super bowl. And I kind of feel like I can't go to the super bowl party, man. I feel. I feel like everyone there is going to be like, hate watching the game with us and like, I don't know that I can be around that, to be honest.
- [46:24]
B
It's. It's. Honestly, it's why I put my. My daughter in a Patriots jersey and I put her on. On my Instagram because I was like, I. I need you guys to. To not hate us. So I'm gonna put my adorable daughter in a. In a Patriots jersey. Yeah. You guys have to at least like that, right? You gotta. You gotta want this little girl to be happy.
- [46:42]
D
I'm saying this right now. I'm probably not going to that super bowl party. Like, I just can't be around a whole bunch of people that don't want my team to win. But you knew what's.
- [46:51]
B
That's everybody. Yeah. You. You.
- [46:53]
D
You mentioned the, the 7. 7 years of. Of bad luck for. For the Patriots. I think what made that feel not as long is it like wasn't the. The beginning of a decade. Right. It was like right at the end of the. The 2000 and tens. Covid happens and then it's like five years. Right. So with that, it's one of those things where I like when you think back to the. The Celtics in the 90s, right. And like, how that felt horrible. Obviously. Len Bias's death in the late 80s, Reggie Lewis's death in the 90s, that stuff happens too. But like, 90s Celtics basketball defines a lot of people's like, childhoods and like that where we kind of fall into that as well.
- [47:39]
B
Yeah.
- [47:40]
D
Where people are just completely out on the Celtics after, you know, Larry Bird goes down. Reggie Lewis died. Like, people just like, what is happening with the Boston Celtics? Celtic City did a great job covering that on hbo, but I think with the Patriots, it's like Tom Brady goes, you know, he goes away, wins another super bowl and there's a couple lost years. We get our hopes up with Mac Jones. There's the zappy hour crew that wants Bailey zappy to be anything.
- [48:05]
B
I thought desperate about how desperate that sounds right now that there was a zappy hour.
- [48:08]
D
I, I was never part of that crew, dude. I, I, I wasn't a M. Jones guy. I wasn't a B Z. I was like, these guys suck.
- [48:14]
B
Like, we just watched Jones couldn't throw the ball beyond 12 yards. Like, I was like, guys, what, what are you watching here? He just dinks and dunks. Like he just didn't turn the ball over his rookie year.
- [48:23]
D
Like, that was, it was crazy. Like we, we went from watching Tom Brady to that garbage and I was just like, I, I can't say this guy has any potential. They're no good. And then I saw Drake May last year. I didn't watch every game, but what I saw out of him, I was like, oh, Drake talented. And then this year, even in the beginning of the season, I don't have NFL Network. I'm not watching all the games. I'm only catching the games that are on national TV or if I happen to be out on a Sunday, like at a bar, which doesn't happen very often because I got an 18 month old at home. And then the cell, the, the Patriots start ending up on national tv more towards the end of the year, I'm like, oh, damn, this team's like really freaking good. And now they're in the super bowl and like, I almost feel like I know I and I, it's not, I almost feel like I don't feel like I deserve it.
- [49:07]
B
Like, well, oh, we don't. There's zero doubt about it. We do not deserve it. And listen everyone, that's not a Patriots fan, your life is going to tell you easy schedule. You guys got this. Break that break. End of the day, we're in the Super Bowl. So it is what it is. Like, there's no denying it. It's a fact. Pretty crazy. Excuse me. The Patriots now in their record, continuing in their own record of their 12th Super bowl appearance. No other NFL fan base has eight, has more than eight. They're tied with the Steelers for the most amount of super bowl win. So we win this historic they now we would then. Okay, think about, just think about this from a spoiled fan perspective. If the Patriots win the super bowl in two weeks, we would then have the Patriots as the most Super Bowls won in the history of the NFL. And we would have the Celtics as the most championships won in the NBA. Two out of the main, two out of the big four, and two out of the three sports I give a about. We would have the team that has the most championships in that sport. We're spoiled, man. But here's the thing you mentioned before, like the 90s Celtics kind of defines us, us. Plus, I think I don't know what the cutoff is. Probably somewhere between like if you were born between like 86 and maybe like 93, somewhere in that range is the sweet spot, I think of fandom where you were, were old enough to know the struggle. Like, because like, there's a lot of Boston New England sports fans that like, even I agree you guys are a little pretentious and kind of pricks because you just don't know what it was like, like at all. And listen, we only suffered until we were like 12 or 13. So it wasn't like we went through as many hardships as, you know, anyone pre 86 or whatever the cut off you want to make it is. But we do know like the, like I remember seeing that famous Loserville. I don't know if it was the Globe or the Herald that had that famous Loserville picture. Like, I remember that. I remember being like, why do we suck? Like, I remember having that built in to my mentality going to school in fourth grade. Like, God, Jose Offerman just really blew that game. Like, we suck as a city. Like, I look like it, like it was that bad that like the entire city based off whatever happened to your. To our stomach sports teams that were just continually failing felt like it represented us. And now since 2001, it's. This is unprecedented just across the, across the sports landscape, what's happened from 2001. And you know, when you look at Drake May, we've got the Jays, the Sox got Roman Anthony and some other young, young prospects. Like, sorry to say guys, I. I don't think it's ending anytime soon.
- [51:56]
D
We're in a pretty good spot, my man. We're in a pretty good spot. You got anything for mediocre Life update or you want to just call this. This one?
- [52:02]
B
Let's call this one. We'll save that for. For later this weekend. Just with the snow apocalypse, guys, just being straight up, supposedly I'm gonna be in Boston this week for. For a work trip. I don't know. We'll see what happens. If I'm not, we'll have another podcast this week. Otherwise, with all of the snow happenings. It may not happen until the weekend. So just FYI for our recording schedule, little, little look behind the scenes. So we'll say mediocre life update for the next time that re record. But again, South Park Celtics get the dub tonight against the Portland Trailblazers. They take home the 102 to 94 win second place in the Eastern Conference for your Boston Celtics. That'll do it for this edition here of Green with envy. As always, appreciate you guys rocking with us both that we're live and those of you now listening on Spotify, Apple or wherever you listen to podcasts for myself, for Greg. That's gonna do it. We will catch you guys later. It don't take much no more until I hit the floor Every time I hit this high it's you I find.
- [53:11]
F
It don't take much no more.
- [53:15]
B
Until.
- [53:16]
F
I'm at your door.
- [53:19]
E
Not to brag or anything, But Arby's new $7.99 meet in three box is kind of a big deal. The other guys give you just one seven side. We give you three sides. Not to brag. You get a meaty sandwich, curly fries, mott sticks, a sweet treat and a drink, all for just 7.99.
- [53:36]
F
It's more meal for your money. More meal for your money. More meal for your money.
- [53:42]
E
Oh, where'd that come from?
- [53:44]
D
Arby's.
- [53:45]
E
We have the meats and participating Arby's.
- [53:48]
C
For a limited time.