Are People Really Blaming Jaylen Brown Right Now?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Green With Envy – “Are People Really Blaming Jaylen Brown Right Now?”

Podcast: Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Hosts: Will & Greg (Blue Wire)
Date: January 20, 2026
Guests: None (Referenced: Mike Gorman, Drew Carter, Amina Smith, Dana Barros)
Topic: Celtics vs. Pistons postgame analysis; Jaylen Brown’s clutch reputation; All-Star starter discussion; team outlook.

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode provides an in-depth postgame reaction to the Boston Celtics’ close 103-104 loss to the Detroit Pistons—a result that saw Detroit win the season series 3-1. Beyond recapping the game, hosts Will and Greg debate fan narratives blaming Jaylen Brown for the defeat, analyze key player performances (especially Jaylen Brown and Derrick White), and discuss the All-Star starter announcements, highlighting what it means for Jalen Brown’s recognition around the league. The episode also zooms out to discuss playoff implications, trade deadline speculation, and the state of the Eastern Conference.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Refereeing & Game Physicality

• Physical, playoff-like atmosphere: Both hosts highlight the intensely physical nature of the game, shaped by Detroit’s identity as a gritty team.
• Referee scrutiny:
  • Will asks Greg how much money it would take for him to referee the NBA, underscoring how thankless the job is ([02:11]).
  • Will points out: “Tonight as an NBA referee, there's no one that's going to walk away from this game going, you know what, those guys did a pretty good job.” ([01:41])
• Impact on outcome: The hosts agree officiating was not to blame for the Celtics’ loss; instead, it was part of the game's playoff preview atmosphere ([03:59]).

2. Dissecting Jaylen Brown’s Performance

• Brown’s stat line: 39 minutes, 32 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists. Not hyper-efficient (11/28 shooting), but heavily featured due to missing Tatum and Pistons' defense ([05:51]).

• Clutch discussion: Jaylen missed crucial late-game free throws, fueling criticism. Will and Greg argue such blame is misplaced given Brown’s overall play.

  “Without Jalen Brown, the Celtics lose by 50 in this game. So let's just start there.”
  —Greg ([05:51])

• Defensive impact: Brown took on Cade Cunningham defensively, holding him to 4/17 shooting and facilitating Celtics’ late chances ([12:43]).

• Clutch gene debate: Chad comment claims Brown “lacks clutch gene”; Greg pushes back:

  “He was the guy that was scoring all the points towards the end of the game... I just can't put this on JB.”
  —Greg ([14:50])

  “He scored the last three baskets and two free throws... That's how the Celtics got their points.”
  —Will ([16:10])

3. Derrick White’s Struggles and Team Offense Gaps

• White’s rough night: 1/11 shooting; despite solid defense (9 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 blocks), his lack of offensive production was glaring with Tatum out ([08:01]).
• Role as #2: The hosts argue that White, without Tatum, needed to be a clear secondary scorer and failed to meet the moment.
• Offensive static: Lack of playmakers aside from Brown leaves Celtics with little margin for error against a strong defense like Detroit ([09:14]).

4. On Last-Second Play Design & Missed Opportunities

• End-of-game play: Discussion on whether Missoula could have dialed up a more creative final play for Brown—but Greg insists the action (Brown getting downhill, option to pull up or attack) was as good as most teams get in that scenario ([17:30]).
• League-wide trend: Across NBA, late-game sideline-out-of-bounds plays rarely generate wide-open shots; smart coaches trust their best player to create something ([19:33]).

5. Playoff Outlook vs. The Pistons

• Season series insight: All four games close, hard-fought battles ([22:07]). Pistons now viewed as a “legit team” at 31–10.
• Playoff edge: Greg says, “Pistons would be heavy favorites” if teams met as currently constructed with no Tatum return or roster moves ([22:35]). Both hosts see Detroit’s lack of secondary creators as a limit, but feel Boston’s current roster doesn’t have the right personnel to exploit Detroit’s weaknesses ([24:14]).

6. The Tatum Injury & Trade Deadline Implications

• Tatum Watch: Recent video shows Tatum moving at “half speed”—hosts speculate if that’s an injury limit or warm-up pace; the organization’s trade moves will signal their confidence in a Tatum return ([26:21]).

  “If they do nothing, it's going to tell me. They think, like, there's a chance he doesn't come back this year. If they make even a decent move, then…all right, they think they're getting something out of Tatum.”
  —Will ([26:21])

• Trade deadline: Brad Stevens & the Celtics front office have 2–3 weeks to evaluate needs, especially for another big man ([24:14]).

7. The (Surprisingly) Weak Eastern Conference

• Both hosts emphasize how wide open the East is this year, with underperforming contenders (Sixers, Knicks, Cavs) making the window valuable for Boston ([27:50]).

  “The East is pretty weak, man. I think that's what it comes down to.”
  —Will ([28:15])

8. Jalen Brown’s All-Star Starter Recognition

• Breakdown: Brown named All-Star starter, finishing #3 with players and #1 among media in East backcourt voting. Next was Cade Cunningham, Giannis, Maxey, and Brunson ([31:49]).
• Peer/media respect: Brown’s media support seen as a leading indicator for postseason awards; “not finding 10 guys better than Jalen Brown out there” ([28:15]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jaylen Brown’s importance:
  “Jalen Brown’s the only reason the Celtics were in this game in the first place.”
  —Greg ([10:38])

• On clutch reputation criticism:
  “It's not Jalen Brown's fault that the Celtics lost this game.”
  —Greg ([10:38])

• On NBA late-game shot creation:
  “This is what every team has done in the history of basketball. Nobody runs like an intricate action to get somebody a wide open shot at the end of a game.”
  —Greg ([17:30])

• On Eastern Conference opportunity:
  “There is a striking position here...the East is just so flawed, right—that’s kind of the ultimate point.”
  —Will ([26:21])

• On All-Star Starter respect:
  “He's taking a Celtics team that has no business being in second place...and they're in second place.”
  —Greg ([31:49])

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Important Timestamps

• Referee salary & impact: [02:11]–[03:59]
• Jaylen Brown's performance breakdown: [05:51]–[11:46]
• Derrick White’s game and offensive issues: [08:01]–[10:38]
• Clutch-time/last play analysis: [14:50]–[19:33]
• Season/postseason matchup with Pistons: [22:07]–[24:14]
• Tatum’s status/trade deadline: [26:21]
• All-Star Starter voting/explanation: [31:49]

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Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is analytical but fiercely loyal to the Celtics; Will and Greg emphasize context, nuance, and data over reactionary fan narratives. They push back on scapegoating Jaylen Brown, insist he is among the league’s elite, and frame the Pistons as a formidable playoff threat—but not unbeatable with reinforcements. The mood is hopeful but realistic, with a consistent call for Celtics fans to recognize what they have in Brown and to keep eyes on bigger stakes as the trade deadline approaches.

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For Celtics fans unable to catch the episode:

• Jaylen Brown criticism is overblown; he carried the team offensively.
• Derrick White’s lack of offense (without Tatum) left Boston vulnerable.
• Playoff matchups with Detroit are daunting without roster moves or Tatum’s return.
• The East is open—making this a crucial stretch for Celtics roster decisions.
• Jaylen Brown, now an All-Star starter, is finally being recognized at the highest levels of NBA media and his peers.

Transcript

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[Will]

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[Will]

Year, same extra value meals at McDonald's. Now get a savory sausage McMuffin with egg plus hash browns and a small coffee for just $5 for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery. This is Mike Gorman, and you're listening to Green with Envy with Will and Greg. All right, everybody. Celtics drop a tough one to the Detroit Pistons, 104 to 103. Detroit ends up taking the season series 3 to 1. But this was a tough game. Talk all about it, give you our reaction as well as before the game today, as part of the NBA's MLK Day presentation, NBA all star starters were announced. No surprise, just Jaylen Brown leading the charge. We'll talk about that. All that and more coming up next year. On agreeing with Envy post game, you guys know the deal. Let's lock in. What up, what up, what up? Welcome into a new another edition of Green with Envy. A Green with Envy post game live, where the Celtics, who capped off the national TV MLK Day slate for the NBA with a matchup of the number one seeded Pistons, number two seeded Celtics. Pistons pull out a game here, 104 to 103. Take him season series three games to one. As always, we're checking in. How you doing? How you living? Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Manakis. Greg, I want to ask you a question here to get us started. How much would it take for you to be an NBA referee? What's the number?

[Greg]

Probably like 300k.

[Will]

Okay, that's actually not, not, not too bad. That's kind of what, what, what it is. I looked it up before because watching this game tonight, I, I, I just kind of imagine no one's happy, right? Like, like the game was physical. They, they could have over officiated, which maybe they did at certain points and they backed off another point like it was just you, you literally have a job that you cannot win. Tonight as an NBA referee, there's no one that's going to walk away from this game going, you know what, those guys did a pretty good job. And I don't know if you break down the tape, maybe they did all right. It was a really tough game to officiate, but average salary about 250, 000 ranges from about 150 to 550 depending on seniority, all that type of stuff.

[Greg]

Some bonus, starting salary. You get me to leave my job, I need at least 300k to go to go rep the. Go rep the games. You're right, you're right. It is, it is tough because the physicality that we saw tonight, which is what you're going to see in the playoffs, right. Any game that matters is going to look like that. And when you get a team like the Detroit Pistons whose entire ethos is physicality, right. And tough mindedness, having a bunch of dogs out there on the court, and then you got Jalen Brown leading the charge for the Celtics where he and Beef Stew get into it and Beef Stew's first stint, first possession on the court, he and Jalen Brown get double text. And the, the amount of physicality that the refs were calling as fouls in the first half, they couldn't do that for the entire game. Right. They were calling foul. Like the first half took forever because there was a whistle on like every other possession and they had to introduce some level of flow into the game. So I honestly there were definitely a couple calls that didn't go the Celtics way. But tonight was not about the referees as a reason why the Celtics lost.

[Will]

Yeah, I mean in, in general I'm kind of out on the whole, you know, complaining about the refs thing. I just think in general, you know, we're, we're about like who, who has ever lost a basketball game at any level. And not one of the first thoughts, a close game and not one of the first thoughts been, man, they really missed insert call here. Right? Like that's, that's, it's just your natural instinct and of course, whatever team you're on, you're biased towards. So I, I'm really kind of out. Except, you know, except for the calls that are like decide the game at the very end. Like that one play, there's no time left. Like, cool. Yeah, we can, we can talk and dissect that, but other than that I'm kind of out on it. And tonight was just an example of being really difficult. And that's why as I was talking about it, I, you said it exactly where I was. Like they kind of over officiate to try to get control, but then you have to have flow because it, between the reviews and the amount of calls that were happening, you know what did Luca Garza have four fouls in three and a half minutes? I think when he, when he first got in. So it was, it was a rough game to officiate and it's part of what has made this Pistons team so strong to start the season. Right. And we get, I think with past start this is at the midway point they're, they're 31 and 10. Like they're a legit team. Right. And so I, I want to talk about this game and then I think after that I want to kind of transition into like hey, if we meet this team in the postse, like what does this mean? So we'll get to that. But let's focus on tonight's game here first. As we mentioned, Pistons pull out the win here 104 to 103 from the Celtics side. You know, Jaylen Brown, another 30 point game. He was, he was really good in this game and especially because he had so much attention. It was so physical. Hate to mention the two missed free throws but it is just kind of a thing with Jalen Brown that's always in the back of your mind. But let's just start with him. He plays 39 minutes, not the most efficient of nights. But part of that is because of the Pistons defense. But ends up with 32 points, 11 rebounds and two assists. What'd you think about Jalen tonight, Greg?

[Greg]

He's great, man. Like without Jalen Brown, the Celtics lose by 50 in this game. So let's just start there. Right. He's the whole reason why the Celtics were in this game. Put the missed free throws aside, put the missed rotations that lead to Tobias Harris wide open three pointer aside. Like there are definitely some give and take with Jaylen Brown.

[Will]

We've unfortunately watched a lot of Tobias Harris in our lives. Like not by choice but we just happen to play him quite a bit. That was pro. That might have been the best Tobias Harris game. I think start to finish that that he's ever had in a game. At least a game that I've watched that I can remember.

[Greg]

Yeah. And I think part of it has to do with the, the matchups where Jaylen Brown decides I'm going to take Kate Cunningham out of the game. The defense is geared like the team defense is geared towards stopping Cade. So you're going to end up with Tobias Harris in mismatches. He's just too big for Derrick White. We've seen this too often with Derek White. He can't handle power forwards for an entire can switch onto them occasionally. He's great at help side, great at protecting the rim. But you know, he could not guard Tobias Harris. Tonight, nobody could guard Tobias Harris tonight. The one time Jalen matches up with him, he like forces him to make a pass down in the post. It was a great game by Tobias Harris, but going back to Jaylen Brown, it's just like I was texting with Phil throughout the game. And there were definitely some moments with jb, like when he. When Garza gets the rebound in the first half and Jalen is just standing out of bounds. So Garza goes to throw him the ball and JB has to like Neo in the Matrix out of the way of it. It leads to a turnover. Couple MIS rotations here. The losing Duncan Robinson for the three pointer. Losing Tobias, well, not communicating with Payton Pritchard, which leads to Hower stepping up away from Tobias Harris, which leads to a Tobias Harris open three. Like those little things, you can nitpick all you want, but without Jaylen Brown, The Celtics have zero shot in this game. Derrick White 1 Again, just awful in this one. I don't know what is going on with D. White, but he's the storyline. If you're gonna point fingers at anybody, point fingers at Derrick White because he deserves the lion share of the blame tonight. If anyone is pointing figures at Jaylen Brown, like you got your priorities mixed up.

[Will]

Yeah, I think there's no question about that. I mean, that's, that's the thing that I think I look at here as a takeaway. There's. There's two major takeaways from this game. One is Derek White, which we'll talk about here in a second. The other is the Pistons kind of took the Celtics superpower of just not turning the ball over to get the possession advantage 14 6. Usually that's kind of flipped for the Celtics in, in most of these games. So that was a big part in a one point game that, that stood out. But ultimately you're 100, right? Derrick White, just one of 11, got to the free throw line two of three. Of course he made some of the plays on the, you know, on the defensive end. Nine rebounds, five assists, three blocks. So it's, it's one of those things with DE Eric White where he does so many other things, but these are the nights. And I'm going to say something here that's painfully obvious, of course, and really stupid. But, but this is the night where you look at, you know, like 80 of Jason Tatum makes the biggest world of difference for so many different reasons, whether it's just having another big body, because I don't think this is a great Luca Garza matchup. I think Luca did a great job in the second half of just eating some minutes to give Neemi a chance to be able to. To finish this game. Because when Nemi was on the court, he was plus 15 in this game.

[Greg]

Right.

[Will]

Like Neemi was on the court, the Celtics were completely different team, but without him and without having that second big. Not that Tatum's fully that second big, but he's one of the best rebounders in the league. He's going to be a little bit better able to match up with the athleticism and the strength of the Pistons have kind of up and down that roster. And he also then appropriately just kind of slots some of these guys offensively into where they need to be. Like tonight, like you mentioned, the biggest thing for Jalen was all eyes were on him. He had to do everything. There was no one else like Peyton. Pritchard had a stretch where he kind of got cooking a little bit, but outside of that, there was. Luckily Hauser hit some shots, Simons had a small burst. But this is. This is again, as much as we praise Simons because of the defensive pressure of the Pistons, this is not a great Simons matchup if he doesn't have other guys to play off of. Now you insert Tatum and you have two guys that can get downhill, can get to their spots. They got to create more attention. This is going to be a game where I think Simon's. If we look forward to the playoffs, if you insert Tatum, Simon's gonna have a much larger impact. But tonight it was all really difficult. And unfortunately, that kind of falls on Derrick White as the de facto number two for this team. And we saw in the one game the Celtics won against the Pistons, he went off in the fourth quarter tonight. I think you're right. You have to look at that one of 11 and that plus the turnovers, it's going to be tough to beat a Pistons team.

[Greg]

Yeah, I mean, D. White, he's one of those guys at Celtics fans, because of his play style and all the intangibles that like the Derrick Whiteness of everything that he does out there on the court, they have a hard time pointing fingers at Derrick White. It's like Derrick White would own up that he needs to be better in this game. If you're like, oh, Derrick White did this, Derek White did that. It's like Derrick White was 1 for 11 from the game. He didn't have his. His like, physicality up to the level. That was necessary to be an offensive force in this game. And without Jason Tatum, he is the number two on this team. He needs to step up and be better on offense against the Pistons, as he did in the game that you just referenced. Right. 1 for 11 is just not going to cut it. I'm stating the obvious here, but I'm just preempting all the people that are going to talk about Jaylen Brown missing those two free throws, which is frustrating and, like, it is a personal hell to watch JB miss two free throws and then Tobias Harris hit a. Hit a corner three. Like, that is NBA hell for Celtics fans out there. But, like, it's not Jalen Brown's fault that the Celtics lost this game. It is Jalen Brown's the only reason the Celtics were in this game in the first place.

[Will]

Yeah, this is one of those games. You can't be fooled by the box score. Like, yes, 11 of 28 is not efficient. He had to. He had to take every single one of those shots, right? Like. Like, this was not one of those games where I looked at it like, man, JB's just really forced. And there was nothing else. There was nothing else that was happening. So that was absolutely something that. That had to happen. Like I said, if it wasn't for that little spell I think Richard had in, like, the third quarter, like, there. There was just nothing off the bounce that was happening. And a lot of that is just, you know, is how the Pistons play. It's how the Pistons have gotten to their 3111 record. Because offensively, like, the Pistons still are kind of a marvel to me that they've been so successful because anyone that makes a decision with the ball in their hands, it's not Cade Cunningham. I think I'm okay with. Like, I'm. I'm like. I'm like, I'm pretty good with the.

[Greg]

Ball in his hands. I'm like, yes, give the ball to Ron Holland. Yeah, he terrifies me on defense, but anytime he has the ball on offense, I'm like, go ahead, dude. Do what you want.

[Will]

They've got a bunch of guysar. Thompson is. Is a nightmare on defense. You know, the durin and. And beef stew. Like, I think. I think, like I mentioned, I don't think this is a great matchup for Garza. I think those guys are. Are too big, too quick, and too strong. Like, they're all things that are bad for a matchup for Luca Garza to be successful. Now, luckily, his ability to stretch the floor gives him a little bit of ability to stay to, you know, to give them problems on. On the other end. But yeah, up and down this roster, they've got defensive guys, but it's really Kate Cunningham and obviously, I mean, you look at this right now, they had 24 assists tonight. Craig, 14 of them were from Cade Cunningham. Nobody had more than two assists outside of Cade. And so even though Cade went 4 of 17, a lot of that, again, shout out to Jalen Brown. A lot of that was him taking that responsibility. You know, it's, it is really crazy to me sometimes that these Pistons are as good as they are, but it's, it's just hanging their hat on that it's there. It's their team culture, their mentality of, of just tough. The toughness has gotten them to 31 and 10.

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[Greg]

The chat here from Jason to legit, he says, sorry, I'm putting this one on jb. He needs to go out and snatch one of these close games, which he rarely seems to do. He gets his points, but lacking the clutch gene. I mean, I just don't agree with that man. Like, he missed the final shot, but he was the guy that was scoring all the, all the points towards the end of the game. Like, I don't know if you can pull up the, the play by play as I'm talking here, will, but JB was the only, the only legit form of offense that the Celtics had. He had that floater in the lane. He had that in traffic layup. He got to the line two straight times. Yes, he missed two of those free throws. And the two before that didn't look good either. They just like rolled around, touched Every part of the rim. He easily could have missed four straight free throws, but, man, I just. I just can't put this on jb. Like, yes, heavy is the head that wears the crown. Right? So Jaylen Brown is named All Star starter. He is the guy. He wants the pressure in these moments, but, like, it's the make or miss league, you know, Jason Tatum has all the chances in the world to hit those shots. Like, we haven't seen enough of Jalen Brown getting those last second shots to say he does or does not have the clutch gene. But one thing's for sure, he's not. He's not scared to take that shot. And he wanted the ball, and nobody else on the court wanted the ball in the fourth quarter.

[Will]

Yeah, I don't. I mean, he scored the last. The last four. So last three baskets and two free throws were all from Jalen Brown. Right. Like, that's. That's how the Celtics got their points. And, you know, at the end of the game, that. Let's just talk about that. That play at the end here. And this is something I'm curious about. You know, if. Were you listening to the broadcast, to the NBC broadcast? Okay. So you know how Scal was like, I know what play is coming. Like, so he's like, didn't. Didn't want to say.

[Greg]

Yeah.

[Will]

I'm curious for your thoughts on. And this is something that that's been. I brought up before, and I'm just not enough of an X's and O's, guys. They really have an opinion on it. Obviously, I don't think this looks. Got a terrible look, but I don't think the Celtics get very many easy looks in this situation. Whether it's Jalen Brown tonight, whether. Whether it's. I'm trying to think. I know Derrick White against Indiana was one of the last close games we have. Like, they're all pretty contested, kind of just one on one. Like, you know, and obviously there's four seconds left. I think there was six seconds left in Indiana. There's, you know, there's not a ton of time, but it feels like there's more time to get something creative. And I feel like the Celtics end up. And this is, to me, a little bit more on Missoula potentially. But I want to ask you, as the coach of the podcast, if you feel that at all at the end of these games, or if they're just getting okay looked and just missing shots and it's make or miss.

[Greg]

I think they got a great look tonight. They got a Great action. Peyton Pritchard in the corner. Jalen Brown cuts up the middle going, getting to his strong hand, getting to his right hand with the option to drive or pull up with four seconds, I think is about as good of a look as you're going to get. And if you watch basketball around the league, every inbound side out of bounds is contested and nobody gets a good shot. There's no, there's not one team in the league that gets a good shot in the 5 second side out of bounds. It's just not going to happen. You're going to give the ball to your best player, getting in an advantage position and trust them to make a shot. This is what every team has done in the history of basketball. Nobody runs like an intricate action to get somebody a wide open shot at the end of a game. That's just not what happens. You get the body, your best player, put him in a position where he can be successful and trust him to go make the play. And I think what they actually did tonight was a great opportunity for Jaylen Brown. He just missed the shot. I would have liked to have seen him drive it. But Asar Thompson, if you go back and watch the play, Asar Thompson is giving a little bit more help off of Peyton Pritchard than I think the Celtics probably expected because Peyton Pritchard's gravity. Peyton Pritchard also probably could have cut into a sar Thompson if he wanted to, like, just to like kind of take up his body a little bit just to occupy him a little bit more. But he's showing help there. Jaylen Brown is driving to the basket to his right hand if he drives. He just missed two free throws. Right. If he gets fouled again, I don't want Jaylen Brown at the line with two free throws. Like, that's the last thing I want. So I'm okay with him getting a contested, but not like heavily contested. I think he'd still get really good look on that shot over Tobias Harris. And if you go back to Paul Pierce, Paul Pierce every single time, right elbow jumper, step away, like sidestep, either make or miss. Like that's just what the shots are in those moments. So I disagree with your premise that we're not. That this is on Missoula.

[Will]

Yeah, I'm not even trying to say it's on Missoula. I just. Yeah, I. I don't know. At times I wish we got a little bit more creative looks, but I understand what you're saying. Again, this is not my strong suit. This is why I default to you as the coach of the podcast. But yeah, it's something I think to keep an eye on. And I do think in general, when you just look at this entire game, this is again, very, very obvious point that I'm making here. This is the Tatum hole, right? This is, this is the table of not having, especially against this team because of their size, right? Like not having someone that can create because there's certain matchups in which Derrick White and Peyton Pritchard when there's not as much size, speed and strength, which is what the, the Pistons have up and down that roster. Basically everyone besides Duncan Robinson, who's actually really good in this game, like, besides him, and he's very long, like everyone kind of fits that mold. You know what I mean? And so like, those are games where it's going to be tougher for White and Pritchard to be the two threes that they can be against, you know, 25, 26, 27 other teams that aren't the Pistons, probably like the Thunder and there's like a couple other teams that are just like horrible, horrible ideas for them to have to be that number two to Jalen Brown. That's the bigger point. But ultimately, you know, Greg, let's, let's talk about it as we start to actually. Anything else you want to hit on this game before we start to scope out a little bit on this here? Just from a bigger big.

[Greg]

Another comment in the chat. Just going to throw out the chat people that are rocking with us here from Norman Aena. Q. Stop running your mouth about how you're the best two way player and just do it.

[Will]

I like.

[Greg]

Yeah, I mean, I just. Yeah, I mean, I get it. I get it. Jalen Brown's gonna talk a big talk. He's gonna walk a big walk. But I would argue that he did that tonight.

[Will]

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, this is the thing. I, that's why, like I, that my comments on the last shot have nothing to do with Jalen. I don't even think like it was like, I'm not even blaming Missoula for it. It's just something I was, I was curious about. Yeah, I, I have a hard time. I, I really thought Jalen played well tonight overall and I just didn't think that there was, there was much else. And so Greg, when we zoom out here, look big picture because right now, pistons are the 1 seed, Celtics are the 2 seed, Knicks. I don't know, we're getting panic texts from our friend Liptak every Every couple of days.

[Greg]

Yeah. Nick's fans, gambles. Everybody out there.

[Will]

So, yeah.

[Greg]

Feel a lot better than the Knicks fans that came.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So all the expectations of a championship.

[Will]

Take solace in where the Celtics are at right now. And you know, the mat. Excuse me, the Mavericks, the. The Pistons win the season series.

[Greg]

Three to watch.

[Will]

All four games have been close. Right. All four games have been kind of a battle back and forth. And so let's. Let me ask you this. With what you know now, with these four games, halfway through the season, let's say no, Tatum comes back. We just have the roster. We have. We don't make any other moves for another big. It's just this roster. Pistons roster stays the same. How would you handicap a playoff series knowing what you know right now, with the evidence that you've seen?

[Greg]

I think the Pistons would be heavy favorites. And I would. I would imagine most people would pick Pistons in five or six. However, the limitations that you see with the Celtics up and down their roster. You see the same thing with the Pistons roster, which you pointed out at the beginning of this podcast. They don't have a lot of guys that can create. Right. Like Caris LeVert is there, like, bracing break in case of emergency guy to run some offense through. We've seen him go for big games against the Celtics, but he's not really that guy. Cade is the one person on the team and he is their son. He is their moon. He is all of the celestial objects out there, stars.

[Will]

He's the entire planet. He's everything.

[Greg]

Yeah. So, like, there's a lot of guys on that team where if you remove Cade Cunningham from the picture, that team is not a good team. Right. The Celtics have removed their Cade Cunningham and Jason Tatum, and they're still a good team. So I do think that the Celtics could surprise me in that series and maybe take it to seven. Just kind of like the. How the Knicks did that to the Celtics last year. The Celtics dominated the Knicks in the regular season and then whooped that ass in the playoffs. So I think there's a world in which the Celtics could do that. I just think there's not enough offensive punch from the Celtics to get through that vaunted defense that the Pistons have because they're just so physical. And Derrick White's not a physical player. Peyton Pritchard loves physicality, but that's the one level of physicality he's going to struggle against. And then Anthony Simons, that's a matchup that's just made in hell for him.

[Will]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's really tough because I, I think I'm with you. But at the same time, it's funny you brought up the Knicks because I was thinking in my head, like the Pistons, you see the flaws, you see, you see where the faults are, right? You know where the cracks are. It's just a matter about having the personnel to go ahead and attack that. And I don't think we do. And so it's a, it's a team that's very, very beatable. But it just, without, in, in this theoretical that we're talking about, we haven't filled those cracks. Right. This is something that when you look at Brad Stevens, who now has, you know, about two and a half, three weeks here to look around the league and see, you know, what moves is he going to make and not make, you know, this is something that you keep in mind as well as. Did you see the latest Tatum video that dropped today?

[Greg]

Yeah. What were your thoughts?

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Oh, what a shot.

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[Will]

I don't know, man. I don't know what to make of these things.

[Greg]

Like, I, like, I was more asking and Jess, hey, he was moving half speed. But when I'm watching and he's moving half speed, I'm like, is he moving half speed because that's all he's allowed to move or is he moving half speed because he's just warming up, right?

[Will]

And it's like a 30 second clip and I'm like, I, I really want to read into it. I more read into, I think Chris Mannix post or retweeted one of the videos and said that like Tatum did this in front of a bunch of media. And so like you know, Jason Tatum, he's. He's always kind of thinking, like, what's. What's the perception of me? What are people thinking? And, and so, you know, Mannix was basically, like, I think he did that on purpose to make sure that, like, the media knows. And of course, there was that clip that came out. I think it was after the Miami game where he was caught saying, I'm ready, you know, so he's, like, trying to make a point of, like, we're getting close now. It's January 19th. We've talked about it before. Like, it's mid February after the All Star break. We'll see. So we're, We're. We're approaching that time frame, but, you know, and I think the trade deadline is going to tell us a lot about where, Where Stevens. Where Brad Stevens and, like, the front office think Tatum's at. If they do nothing, it's going to tell me. They think, like, there's a chance he doesn't come back this year. If they make even a decent move, then I think that's telling me, like, all right, they. They think they're getting something out of Tatum because this east is just so flawed, right. That that's kind of the ultimate point that I was trying to circle back to here. And we see the. We see the cracks of the Pistons. The Knicks are falling apart. Like, you know, the, The Sixers. Same thing. Like, you can't. I mean, even though Embiid and George are out there now, like, you can't really rely on that. Their depth out, you know, on the wing is. Is not great. Like, it goes on and on, and it's just like.

[Greg]

Cavs got blown out at home against the Thunder today. 136 to 104. Like, we're in a much better spot.

[Will]

Darius Garland's hurt again. Like, the Cavs are constantly waiting for their team to be whole, no matter who it is. So it's like there is a striking position here of where the Celtics could. Can make some moves. And it's. I don't know. The East. The east is pretty weak, man. I think that's what it comes down to.

[Greg]

But, like, the more you watch, and I've been trying to watch a lot of basketball just, just lately, just, you know, I was on this past week, I was traveling for work, so I didn't have any responsibilities like dad responsibilities. So I watched a few more games. I watched games today and, like, comment in the chat about Jalen being a top 1015 player in the league right now. It's like, you watch all these other teams out there, man, you're not going to find 10 guys better than Jalen Brown out there. You're not going to find 14 guys better than Jalen Brown out there. Even guys like Donovan Mitchell who have. I've always kind of, like, had them on the same level. Like, go watch Donovan Mitchell try to deal with Lou Dort today. Like, he looked like, you know, and like, Jalen Brown is being guarded by some of the best guys in the league night to night, and he's putting up crazy numbers. Like, if I'm really doing it in my head, gunned in my head, is Jaylen Brown better than these people? Like, it's sga, it's Jokic, Wemby, just because of the defensive impact, but Wemby still has, like, a ton of flaws. Probably Ant. Probably.

[Will]

I think I'd go Ant. Yeah, I was thinking about that recently. I think. What was it? Ant vs. Wemby. The other day, I was watching some of the. I didn't watch that game live. I. Some of the highlights. I was like, I think I got to put Anne over. Over jb. Like, it's not far, but he's real good.

[Greg]

Unbelievable and is unbelievable. But, like, I'm thinking about it, that's where I start debating, is it Jalen or Ant? I could talk myself in either direction, but gun to my head, I'd probably go Ant. I'm going Jalen over Luca. Luca looks like absolute garbage. Like, he. He can't do anything for the. The Lakers, aside from scoring 36, like, empty points, like, he's not doing anything on defense. So I got like, three, four guys above Jalen. Everybody else, you're splitting hairs at that point.

[Will]

So this brings us to the other topic we want to talk about today here. The All Star starters were announced earlier today, and to no one's surprise, Jalen Brown will be making his first All Star start. Joining him out there also, Kate Cunningham, Tyrese Maxey, Jalen Brunson, and Giannis Santa De Campo. In the west, you got no surprise. Nicole Jokic, sga, Steph Curry, Luca, and then Wemby, who won. I don't know how this. It was tied with Anthony Edwards. I didn't see how it was deciphered that Wemby gets the edge, but Wemby gets the start. Ant will make it as a reserve anyways. But, Greg, some of the things I thought were pretty interesting. So to your point that you're making about Luca and about Jalen, like, so they give you Here, the breakdown. So it's 50 fans, it's 25% NBA players and 25% media. So Luca finished actually sixth in the player ranks. He finished outside of the starters. So clearly other players are kind of watching, like, yeah, he's good, but he's like, not as good as the. As the perception. For Jalen in the east, he actually finished third amongst players, only behind Cade, who finished number one, surprisingly to Giannis, who is number two. Jalen finished fifth in the fan, but here's the interesting one. Finish first in media. And so that really kind of makes you think, especially because media is going to be a pretty similar. I don't know if it's the exact same group that's going to be voting for MVP all NBA at the end of the season, but to come in first in the east ahead of Cade, ahead of Giannis, ahead of Maxi, who's gotten a lot of love. Brunson, who's been, you know, kind of the guy across for the last couple of years. It's really interesting to see that Jalen not only has the respect of his peers, but also the media has very much for the season and turned on Jalen's side.

[Greg]

Makes sense, dude. He's taking a Celtics team that has no business being in second place in the Eastern Conference and they're in second place in the Eastern Conference. And same thing with Cade. Right? Like the Pistons, Yeah, they have a great identity and everything, but they're a very flawed team as well. Kate is, as we said, he's their entire galaxies, their entire universe. He is the reason they are as good as they are. Without Kate Cunningham, they're barely a playoff team. So, yeah, I think you can. It's between. It's between Cade and Jaylen in the East. Giannis, just because the Bucks have just been so awful, I'm kind of putting him to the side for now. But, like, he's Giannis.

[Will]

Listen, Giannis is still the best player in the East. Like, I think. I don't think there's much question of that. His team is just nowhere close to the best team.

[Greg]

Right? Yeah. That's fair. No arguments. Yeah.

[Will]

And so it's really nice for Jalen Brown. Shout out to Jalen Brown. And listen, it wasn't very close, so when you look at kind of the weighted score, there's quite a gap between him and Donovan Mitchell, who was the next closest guy that was vying for that final starter spot. So for Jalen Brown, he'll be starting. It'll be that new us versus World format. So it doesn't really matter for. From which conference you come from, because it's going to be international versus.

[Greg]

That's probably why Wemby got the nod over. Over Ant, right?

[Will]

Probably. I don't know. I. I could. I could have looked it up, honestly. I read one article, they said that he won a tiebreaker, but it didn't tell me how he won the tiebreaker. And then I decided I don't really care enough to. To look this up as to.

[Greg]

Yeah.

[Will]

As to why he won the tiebreaker, especially because Ant's gonna be there anyways. Something that was interesting. The next guy after Ant listed was Denny Avia, who got more come. Got a better weighted score than Kevin Durant, LeBron James and Kawhi Leonard. He's having. He's had a really good year. But that's. But that's pretty interesting that he scored higher than all of those guys.

[Greg]

But I think the machine, man.

[Will]

I think they got bigger things to focus on. But I believe the reserves are going to be announced here on February 1st once the NBA starts up taking over for Sunday Night Football. But that leads us to just the last quick thing that we'll get into here, Greg, and we'll wrap it up and make this quick one. Pat's going to the AFC Championship.

[Greg]

Let's go.

[Will]

Back.

[Greg]

We're back, kid. We're back. Got me out talking at bars again. You know, drink some Bud Lights with the boys and just talk. We got Drake May, baby. We got Ramond Dre Stevenson, baby. We got Mikey V. Mikey Frable right in the helm.

[Will]

We're good.

[Greg]

We're good. We are going to the super bowl, my dude. I cannot wait.

[Will]

Yeah, I. Oh, God, dude, we cannot let Jared Stidham stand in the way. That would be. That would be an all time letdown if Jared Stidham was the one that got in the way. But yeah, I. Again, you know, not to bring up our. Our guy Liptac again. I was golfing with him today. Nick's falling apart. Pat's back in the AFC Championship. It's. It's a tough sports time for our guys.

[Greg]

They had a little window there, man, the New York window. It was there for a New York minute and it's closing up.

[Will]

It's gone. It's gone now, man. Yeah. So Drake May the truth. And dude, it was that game yesterday. I will say that Texans defense was pretty legit. Like they, like outside there was. So basically there was three drives in which the Pat scored touchdowns and Drake May made some and that play between him and Booty against. Against Stingley, who's one of the best cornerbacks in the league. Unbelievable throw. Even better catch, tight coverage seals the game. That was just an absolute dime all around. The Diggs touchdown where fit it in a window. And Diggs just like the. Must have the strongest hands ever to hold on to that. Like, really impressive plays. But outside of that, that Texans defense was terrifying. I thought Will Anderson and Hunter were getting to. To May every single time. Tough game for Will. Hey, he. He recovered like two fumbles, so I'll give him that because that was. That was probably the best things he did. He did during that game. But yeah, I'm excited, man. I'm excited to have the path back in the. In the conference championship and one game away from going back to the Super Bowl.

[Greg]

That's with favorites. Denver obviously has been a house of horrors in the past, but I think there's no reason we should lose this game. In Denver, they're playing Jarrett Stidham, who's.

[Will]

That's the only reason to feel uncomfortable. It's just like we've had bad experiences there before, right? But it's like they have a backup quarterback they sh. Who hasn't thrown a pass in two years, two plus seasons.

[Greg]

And then when you look at. You look in. Into the nfc, Charbonnet just went down, right. For the Seahawks. World's hurt. There's just like, not too much waiting on the other side either. So I didn't be there this year, but they're there. And I'm just like, all right, man, I'm locked in.

[Will]

This is one of those ahead of schedule years, right? And this is, you know, if we're tied it back to the Celtics here. This is if those, you know, like Isaiah Thomas type teams, like, if they all of a sudden caught the right breaks and you're like, we weren't supposed to be here, but we're. We're here now. And like, you know.

[Greg]

Right. Or the year we took the Cavs to seven, right. Maybe LeBron goes down with a sprained ankle and then all of a sudden it's like. It's just. It's like just who was on that team at that. I don't even know who's on that team at that point because Kyrie was on the Celtics.

[Will]

I mean, that was like. That was.

[Greg]

It was.

[Will]

It was legitimately LeBron and Jeff Green in game seven that beat us.

[Greg]

Yeah.

[Will]

Like, it was. It was the two of them. And then unfortunately, I mean, the warriors would have been ways we would have needed like the warriors, what, a year or two years later where like Clay and KD go down. That would have had to have happened versus for us to have a chance to beat, to beat that warriors team. But hey, Pat's right there on the precipice Sunday in Denver. We'll see if they can go ahead and take one more step towards the super bowl for us. And for the Celtics here coming up this week, just a quick look at their schedule coming up. We got Indiana at home on Wednesday, followed by Brooklyn and Chicago on the road over the weekend. And then your Sunday, everybody. It's freed up. Go make your plans. Go figure out where you're watching this game. It's going down. Pat's trying to get back to the Super Bowl. So we'll have something for you guys probably before that game and we'll have something during the week as well, but we'll have something before that game that we'll probably put out. So I don't know if we'll know if the paths are in the super bowl depending on our recording time yet, but I'm sure you guys will be geared up and ready for it. Also, just Greg, I know you've got. We've got some good friends of ours from Indiana. Shout out to iu, National Football, ncaa, whatever. The National National Champions, NCAA champs, IU football. What a world we live in where IU football is winning national titles. Anything's possible. Now that's kind of the story that we want here for this Celtic season. All right, that's gonna do it for this episode of Green With Envy. As always, appreciate y' all rocking with us. Make sure you are locked in, subscribing, following across everything. TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube. We appreciate each and all of it and we will catch you guys later this week.

[Greg]

Peace. It's you.

[Will]

I find it don't take much. No more until I'm at your door.

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Unbelievable.

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