← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Are the Knicks tanking to avoid the Celtics? Knicks Fan TV's Alex Trataros stops by to preview Thursday's Game
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B
This is Mike Gorman, and you're listening to Green with Envy with Will and Greg.
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A
All right, everybody. Green with Envy going live here for a Celtics Knicks preview. The final Celtics Knicks game of the season. The two seed versus three seed. Is it a potential playoff showdown? A potential playoff matchup? Who knows? Looks like we might be heading that way. And Jason Tatum's return to msg. Little PTSD on the mind for Jason Tatum. We've got a special guest to help us break that all down and more all that's coming up here on Green with Envy. You guys know the deal. Let's lock in. Oh, What up, what up, what up? Welcome into another edition of Greenwich Envy. As always, this is what will, we're checking in. How you doing? How you living? We are live here on a Wednesday night. I almost said Tuesday night on a Wednesday night. We are live in advance of Saturday Celtics, Knicks, the final Celtics Knicks game of the year. And of course, joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, one and only Greg Menus. Greg, we got a good guest today. I'm excited to talk about about Celtics Knicks here. It doesn't get much better than that, dude.
- [02:14]
D
Let's, let's go, let's go. I don't know if the Knicks are avoiding the Celtics right now, if they're trying to tank to the four. The four seed. We'll talk about that with our guy Alex. But I'm excited to be here, man.
- [02:24]
A
But let's get them in here. So joining us from Knicks fan, TV friend of the podcast, we have Alex Chataro's joining us here to catch us up on all things New York Knickerbockers. Alex, what's good, man?
- [02:38]
B
Well, Greg, thanks for having me back, guys. I'm happy to Be back here to talk about Nick. Celtics. Celtics, Knicks. I know this is a Celtics pod. You know, Greg, you came on KFTV last time we were breaking down the series and you know, it was a good ending for my team. Not so much your team, but hey, I know you guys looking for the get back this season.
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D
Dude, I need you. I need you to answer the question straight up, though. Are you guys tanking to the four seed?
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B
No. That is not good. That is not happening. Stop.
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D
You want the smoke?
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B
Want the smoke, baby? Want the smoke. Come on. First of all, if that even were to happen, man, do you know how. You know chicken? Can I curse on the show or what? Of course.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, chicken. This team would look if we were like, oh, no, no, no, no. We beat the master but tainted back. We can't. We can't do that now, man, come.
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A
That.
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B
That's the weakest move. And if the Knicks actually were doing that, I don't know, man, I'd be. I'd be.
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A
I will say this. I. I do believe in karma. I do believe in that. Like teams that try to manipulate the standings. Really outside of like that last game of the year, like, you're just asking for bad karma to come.
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B
Oh, for sure.
- [03:41]
A
So. So I don't see that happening. But as we're recording here, you know, Cavaliers held off the Hawks. You guys beat the Hawks the other night. Right now it looks like the Cavs are just a half game back of the Knicks for that three seed. Celtics, Knicks, two, three. We thought this game might have a little bit more relevance right now. Basically, Celtics got to lose out. Nick's got to win out for. For that to flip. You guys already have the tiebreaker. But before we get into Celtics and Nick specifically, Alex, I. I want to just get into this Knick season a little bit, right? Because I think there's kind of like two narratives that are. That are out there about this season. There's one that's on paper, and when you look at the Knicks, they're third in the east, they're third in offensive rating, they're eighth in defensive rating, they're fifth in net rating. Everything about that screams title contender. And then if you just watch the headlines, you just look at what's happening on Twitter, or you turn in, tune into a podcast on the right day, and you get, you know, the Mikhail Bridges trade. You know, everybody's kind of redoing whatever their thoughts were on that from a year and a half ago. Carl Anthony Towns, what day of the week is it that can tell you what people are feeling about Carl Anthony Towns and this team. You know, it, it's been a little bit inconsistent. Their best has been really, really good. But I think they've had a couple of failures, you know, or slip up, let's call it. It's called slip ups in, you know, major moments. I think people have kind of globbed on to. So where are you? You're one of the voices of Knicks fan tv, the voice of the people. Like, where are Knicks fans today with this team? Is it closer to the paper reality where everything screams championship contender, or is it more what you see in the headlines of the podcasts and the TV shows where it feels like the Knicks are just constantly of, you know, some type of drama, let's call it, guys.
- [05:24]
B
The reality is, is that it's still a wait and see and right now it's not, oh, the Knicks are doomed. You know, there is some reality where, hey, this is not a perfect team. Everyone's talking about the starting five, showing how it is barely a positive. When these guys are on the four, they're usually working their way back from a deficit, right? But then there is a faction of the fan base that's like, are we really that team? Are we going to do that? I don't know, man. This team is not really built for that based on what we've seen because of, you know, whether it be not beating Detroit, not being physical enough, not knowing who the identity is. And for me, it's like I just got to wait and see. I, I think this team, as we saw even last season, outperformed what it showed what they were capable of even with their inconsistencies last year. And they're inconsistent again this season. And I think the thing with this team is that they've proven that even with their inconsistencies, they can make it to the Eastern Conference finals. And that themselves that because of that it has given them a bank that they can potentially do that again. And so there's, we can't really write off a team, this team right now. But there, there, there are some major flaws. There are some major flaws with this team where it's, you know, the lack of perimeter defense when it comes to Garden of the three, there is that, hey, Ken Brunson and Towns really coexist on the floor together. If you watch against the Hawks finally ran some pick and roll to their success. And I was like, whoa, where has this been? Like, we saw that last year with Tibbs through the first like quarter of the season. Then the new calendar year comes. People say, hey, throw a wing on Towns. Hey, put a center on Josh Hart. You know, if you have some versatile defenders on Brunson, we can really throw their them off their block, and they won't be able to spam the pick and roll with Brunson and Cat. And so we haven't seen that for a while. Got to see that back again. It's like, can we do this? There's just a lot going on with this team offensively and defensively. I would say the biggest thing that both, most of the fans would probably agree on is that even though the record looks good, the advanced stats look good, it doesn't feel like this team has matched that those advanced stats. But it all comes back to, hey, we got to wait and see for what this team could do in the postseason. Because ultimately this team will be graded on how far they go in the postseason. And right now, it's, you gotta at least make the Easter conference finals with this team, especially after firing the head coach from last year.
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D
So one of the things that we talk about on this pod a lot, Alex, is the idea that if you want to be a real contender in today's NBA, you need a few things. The recipe for success. You got to have an identity, you got to have versatility, and you got to have a star. I think right now, you meet two of those three things, right? You have a star and you have versatility. From my perspective, do you have an identity this year? Because it felt like you had one Under Tibs? What's the identity that Knicks under Mike
- [08:19]
B
Brown we definitely did have under Tibs, I would say, two seasons ago, where you'll get that 23, 24 team. And it was like, yo, we'll show up with a bunch of metal bats, some, you know, brass knuckles, and we'll beat the living daylights out of you, and we'll compete for all 48 minutes last year, you know, not really an identity to the team. And I would even say there's truly an identity to this team. I know. Spoelstra. What? Back in, like, November, December, around that point, said, this is a never quit team, never die team. Although we've seen this team roll over this season where it's like, oh, okay, we're just throwing in the town. Like, well, I guess that's not the moniker.
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A
That's a fun pod, right? They just rolled over tonight. All right.
- [08:59]
B
Yeah, man. Or dog days. Dog days of the season. You know, that's what they're Going through. Right. Which I feel like is just an easy cop out for saying, hey, you know, they're just trying to coast to the postseason. But I still don't know what this, the identity of this team is. Some people believe they have a switch to turn it on. I'm not really a big believer that this team has a switch. I think what they showed last year is that they were capable of leveling up to a degree until, you know, they ran out of steam against the Pacers. I'm curious to see if they can do that again this year. But I. To your point, Greg, there is not really an identity for this team. They're very talented, they have a star, but I wouldn't say they have a full on identity yet.
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A
So you said something really interesting to me, Alex. At the very beginning of that two years ago, the Knicks had an identity. Let's think about it. What has been a major change in the last two years? We mentioned the coaching and it's the addition of Carl Anthony Towns. So I want to go to call Anthony Towns here because I do think he is pretty fascinating. And of course, it's the swap of Cat for Divincenzo and Julius Randle that I'm referring to here. And in my day to day job, I'm gonna tell a quick story here. I, I work in sales and so I was on a call maybe about two, three weeks ago, ended up guy I met for the first time, he's out in Rhode Island. He ends up being a big Knicks fan. So we end up just spending like half the call just talking like Celtics, Knicks. And I'm actually kind of giving him a therapy session because I was talking him into the Knicks as like, dude at the. At their best. Like, I think, and I've said this multiple times on the show this year, that at their best, the Knicks might be the best team in the East. At their absolute best, they might be the best team in the East. And he just couldn't get around to it. He mentioned something similar to you did where he was like, this team used to have this identity. And you know, I was talking him through it and then eventually he just cut me off and goes, you know what, man? It's just Cat. I can't do Cat, I can't do it. He just, he said, I'm gonna stop beating around the bush. Here's the answer. I can't do do Cat. And I was like, all right, listen man, fair enough. Like, I haven't been the biggest Cat fan, but dude's been to two conference finals back to back. And then right after that, I think it's the mismatch with Chris Vernon and David Jacoby. I saw he had a very similar take where he was. Went over all the stats that we just talked about, but was like, there's something about Cat that is stopping me from believing in this team. Where are we at with Kat today? What. What is the latest update on your person? Let's just start with your feelings towards the Cat experience thus far and what you believe in Cat for this upcoming playoff run.
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B
Oh, man, you're really trying to open up everything right now.
- [11:27]
A
So I was welcome, welcome. And you wanted all the smoke. Giving you all the smoke.
- [11:32]
B
Yeah, man. Well, I. I was not a fan of the Cat trade, and I think everybody. It's. It's well documented. I thought we should have kept Randall Dante and Notre for Cat. I understand why the team did it. Okay. Use Hartenstein. Bird writes, can't only pay him so much. You lose that now you need a center. Do you want to go in with the team where you're potentially playing Julius as a small ball five? No. Did you want to go out and try to deal with Danny Ainge with Utah and try to get Kessler? No. Is Nick Richards really going to move the needle? He's more of a backup center. He's not really going to move it. So, like, what's the next best available option? You're not going to resign, Julius. You know, Timberwolves want to get off a big contract. Well, looks like there's a. There's a partnership right there. So Cat comes through and I'm like, all right. I think the biggest thing with Cat for me, man, like, and why I just. I put that out there. I'm just saying, like, I understand why it happened. I'm not. I'm not. I don't hold it against the team. I understand why it happens because I feel like some. I feel like some fans really just hold a gripe, like, why did they do that? Why did they do they do that? And it's like, you have to understand why they did that. And even though you may not be happy with it, you have to understand the process. It's. I. The. You know, the. The quintessential phrase. It's a business, guys. It's a business. You know, I mean, like, stuff's gotta happen. So I get why they did it. I'm not the biggest Towns fan because he's been in the league long enough where he's always been like, the guy like, Is it. Is this going to be the year? Is this the year that he's really going to show you how he unlocks his full potential? And he could be somebody that you rely on. I mean, even before he came to the Knicks that year, and when he got. When they get to the Western Conference finals, he was a no show in the Western Conference finals. Yeah, Mav's like, it's like, oh, look what he did in the first two rounds. It's like, all right, that's cool. What are you doing? What are you doing? The Western Conference finals, and he tried to, like, bring it back in in the last game, but it's like, you know, it's a little too late. Then you look at last season, and while he had the numbers during the regular season, I'm like, I need to see it in the postseason. Everyone's like, well, he did better than what Randall did here. And my argument was, well, Randall solidified himself as a second option out in Minnesota last year. Forget what he did against the Thunder. The Thunder dismantle everybody. No one's going to compete with. The Thunder is just like, at a whole other level. When I look at what Cat did with the Knicks last year, he had moments, he had games. Now you brought in. You brought him in here. You see the amount of money he makes and all that stuff, you're like, this guy should be a legitimate number two. And he hasn't played like a legitimate number two. So where do I stand with him right now? He's had. He's bought into Mike Brown's system as of late, after still having questions like trying to say, where is he figured? Where does he fit in with this whole thing? And I can acknowledge that he has done that. That being said, it's like everybody else, man, I can't, like, build it up.
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A
I love this. It's really been building up for me. I have.
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B
I have to see it happen, man. He hasn't it. He has not done it. And so, like, he, you know, shout out to cp, man. He always says, like, you trade a question mark for a question mark, and it still is a question mark. With Towns, I don't know who's. I don't know what Towns is going to show up. Do you know what? Towns is going to show up? I think we've all watched Carl Towns and know that he's talented, but I don't think he's ever reached his full potential of what he was meant to be in this league. And even to this point, I still don't think he's reached his full potential. So it all like a lot of this all depends on how Towns performs. And he's having career, he's had a career, not career lows, but like he hasn't had these lows since he's been like a rookie and some like scattered parts throughout his tenure in Minnesota. And it's like is he going to be able to figure that all out? And it seems like he has. But then you see stretches like the last through the three losing streaks, the three game losing streak that they went on. You're like, well where was Towns? And it could be like, well, he hasn't demanded the ball. Coach hasn't gotten him involved, teammates haven't gotten involved. And it's a whole chicken or the egg theory, man. So I'm still wait and see when it comes to Carl Anthony Towns, what's
- [15:38]
D
up with him in just like the amount of three pointers that he's, he's taking this year. So I'm just looking at the lack thereof, you mean? Yeah, the lack thereof. It's just like why are they not utilizing probably his greatest weapon as an offensive player? I just, just looking at the total stats and you know, number of three pointers hit, he's, he's only hit 111 threes this year on 300 attempts, shooting 37% which is the lowest since 2223. What is it about the offense under Mike Brown that has kind of pushed him away from the three point line? Big thanks to our sponsor, Better Help, for partnering with us for this important
- [16:17]
B
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A
So having a counselor and working with better help, that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack.
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B
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A
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- [16:39]
B
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- [16:49]
C
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- [17:21]
B
I don't necessarily think it's just a Mike Brown thing because even if you go to last season, he wasn't really shooting that many threes either under Tibs. And I would say he's shot a little bit more under Tibs last year, but still not to like the degree that he was. Yeah.
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A
Still under five both the last two years. Yeah. 4.7 to 4.1 this year.
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B
Yeah. And I would say, like, he's not being utilized to his fullest because I think when you look at both the coaches, it's like what do they prioritize most? Last year under Tibbs, he really. Tibbs, Tibs really wanted Towns to do a lot more like paint work and like getting downhill this season. Mike Brown wants him to be Sabonis esque. So like really working top of the key high post, doing a lot of DHOs, being a hub. And that is not his game. Like, if you watched him out in Minnesota, like, I know you guys have like, you see the trailing threes, you see like, all right, you see the mismatches and like we're not really doing that. As I said as of late, he was getting that, but haven't really utilized that. Like the trailing threes is like where he usually makes his bread and butter and we're just not, you know, maximizing that talent. So that's been a frustrating aspect of his game. I also think too that because you have so many talented guys on this team, it's always like a balance of like who gets what volume on any given night. And I think under. Not. I think, I know under Mike Brown, he wants to have like this diverse offense where like you have no idea, outside of Brunson being the lone consistent, you have no idea who else is going to be the guy to attack. So that part of it too has kind of put him in this weird funk where he's not playing like the guy that you'd see out in Minnesota.
- [19:03]
D
Yeah. And you know, the other part of the identity shift from two years ago to last year. Yeah, they added Towns, but they also added Bridges. And I think Bridges is one of those guys that he's. He's been in the media a lot. You know, Stephen A. Smith had his whole thing about Mikhail Bridges and I, I'm just like interested in and why he seems to be scapegoated from an outside perspective. Maybe I'm. I'm just reading headlines, but he does seem to be scapegoated a little bit more than I was kind of expecting him. Towns is such, you know, like it's moths to a flame in terms of like how, how many people just want to jump all over. Yeah, go ahead.
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B
You know what's crazy though? It's like I feel like this, like you would like if you two. If you tune into the chat, you could be like, I'm sick of Cat. I'm done with Cat. This, that and the third. But like, I feel like there's just a good portion of Knicks fans now that were like, they get that. But now like this season they're. It's kind of like since it's been done for so long, it's like now they're just. It's like almost an apology for Cat. Like, we get it now. We get it, so it's okay. It's like there's almost an acceptance of that. Whereas when it comes to Mikhail Bridges, if I'll ask you the outdoor the question back to you guys, if you traded five first round picks plus pick swaps or somebody, what do you expect as a result? What do you want? I mean, you want that player to be.
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A
This is the issue, right? This is this. This is the J.D. drew situation, right? So, Alex, I know you live in Boston, but like back in the day, this is what. Greg, the. This is the 07 team, I think with. With J.D. drew, where at the time, J.D. drew, who. Perfect five tool baseball player for, you know, people who listening may remember this. And it was just the biggest deal every day on Boston sports media where he gets signed and it's like, you know, he's got all the tools. He looks like the prototypical baseball player that want, like does everything. Perfect form, great swing. And I think it's just his first year here. It was just very, like, it was just very underwhelming, right? And when you looked at his like actual stats, like, it kind of like didn't like it wasn't grossly underperforming his actual typical sets, but it just didn't look like it. However, in that postseason, I think the, I think the Sox were down 3:1 in the game, 3:1 in the series. And then JD Drew hit this grand slam in the ALCS that flipped the whole series. Red Sox go on to win the World Series. You know, I feel like we've always called it the $75 million grand slam. At that time it was like a five year, like $75 million deal, which was a much bigger deal like at that time. And, and so it's. To me, that's kind of the McHale bridges of it.
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D
All.
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A
Right. It's the expectations that went along with having, you know, all these picks go out. In J.D. drew's case, all this money going. There's money that might be coming. Bridges way too. So it's like all of these things kind of mixed together that lead to, you know, Bridges being under. Underwhelming. And I'll be honest, I thought he was going to be a better fit than what it's been like. I don't. Dude.
- [21:48]
D
And he was so good in the series against the Celtics. He was like, the main reason you guys beat the Celtics last year. So, like, what the hell happened?
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A
Yeah. And, Greg, you were on it all year long that you were like, we're going to kill Bridges. We've been killing Bridges. Like, Bridges is not going to stop the Celtics. And then Bridges was, you know, maybe the top, if not top, two reasons that the Knicks beat the Celtics. Even before the Jason Tatum injury, they were going to be up three.
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B
One, you know, like, and I also add to that, like, not only did you put in the five picks plus the pick swaps, you also just gave him a contract extension, 150mil. So, like, now you put all that together. I'm like, well, if I'm giving you all this, I trade all this for you. Shouldn't you be like a legitimate three maybe on some nights, a two. And, like, you start off the season hot. Yeah, that's the ideal situation. Start off the season hot, and then it's just like he's kind of been coasting and kind of his looks like he's got into his own head. Although it seems like he's slowly figuring it out. It's really just the value, man, that you trade for him. That. That's really what it is. Yeah. And that's why he gets a lot of scrutiny. Because if you're putting that much in, I mean, the expectation is, if I'm trading all that and you're saying that I'm the last piece that. That he has to be one of the reasons that puts you over the top between him and Towns. Right. Like, you're paying one guy 50 million plus, and it only increases by the last year, Towns will be making 62 million on the Knicks. And then you look at Bridges and you're like, all right, so I just traded all these assets for. You can't really trade multiple picks. The Yanis thing has been discussed at ad nauseam at this point. I don't even like discussing it, but, like, if you even want to get into that conversation. Well, if now he's available, what picks do we have? Right. If you want to go down that route, which is the Stephen A's point. Right. And so when you see both those things combined and then what he gives you is just inconsistent play for the value just put up for him, he's gonna stick out like a sore thumb. And honestly, this is kind of last season too. Like, he was underwhelming last season, and so now he's back to being underwhelming again. And it's like, I have accepted the player that he is on the Knicks. I also think that we don't utilize him correctly either. I think what I think, how could
- [24:03]
A
you guys utilize him differently? Like, what.
- [24:04]
B
What would be, what I would want.
- [24:06]
A
I think he should come off the
- [24:07]
B
bench and be Andre Iguodala. That's how I think he should be. I think he should be. I think what I think where they've positioned him is that since he's getting paid so much and what you trade for him, so much trade for him, which is so much. I mean, you have to make him a starter where he probably could be easily. Like, what he showed in Brooklyn could do exactly what Andre Iguodala did. He could be that guy that leads the second unit, be a little bit of a creator, take advantage of second years because he's just that much better than them. Like, he's fine, he can hang with first units, but you're really asking him just to be like a floor spacer and, you know, a tertiary. Tertiary option as like a ball hander. And he's not really great at getting downhill. So if he's not going to do that and he's going to shy away from contact, why not put him against, you know, what's supposed to be lesser competition and let him thrive?
- [24:55]
D
Yeah, I don't understand the. The NBA's fascination with needing to justify money in picks going out and things like that with a starting role on a team. Like, the whole point is to win, to win the game, right? Like, if it makes sense to bring somebody off the bench, like, they should be able to swallow their ego and come off the bench. Like, there's so many examples throughout NBA history of guys who were phenomenal basketball players that came off the bench. We just talked about it on the last podcast with Peyton Pritchard. Like, that's what you want. Mikhail Bridges, I would say in a vacuum, is a better play than Peyton Pritchard, but Peyton Pritchard being willing to accept his role coming off the bench. After starting it for the first time in his career and playing really well before Jason Tatum came back, they said, hey, Peyton, we want you to go back to the bench because, you know, it's probably likely Jason Tatum's coming back and, like, it's going to make more sense for our team for you to come off the bench and play the role that you played last year where you won six man of the Year. Thank you for doing that. Thank you for sacrificing for the team. Like, where the. Is the sacrifice with all. With all these dudes around the league, just be willing to come off the bench. And if you play well off the bench, you're going to be there closing the game when it matters, right? It just doesn't make any sense to me, dude.
- [26:08]
B
And that's the other thing, too, is that we've seen him be benched in the fourth quarter for guys like Landry Shammit or Deuce McBride, which then now you go, it goes back to the thing I paid so much for you. And you can't even close either. And you're this inconsistent. What are we getting here? You know, and that's where the, the whole frustration is. And so, you know what's funny, Will and Greg, is that you both brought up, like, the culture shift, and it's actually both those guys have changed the culture, both of them. So it's like. Or the identity of this team. And look, like I said, still talented team, anything could happen. You know, there's still an opportunity for them to go out there and potentially, like, win it all. I don't think there's a clear cut, you know, team that's above the rest in the east this season, and even the Celtics, who have been playing so well, like, it's just a different roster. Like, your roster the last two seasons was like, overwhelmingly, like, powerful. Like, you had like, the top optimal role players at each and every single position where you're like, holy, man. Like, all these guys just know their role, know their position, and they do everything they're supposed to do to like 110, from like Drew Holiday, Derek White, all those guys to your two superstars, right? But when I look at the entire Easter season, I'm like, anybody could really make it. Like, they're like, do you think.
- [27:26]
A
Do you really think. I mean, I mean, let's just be real about. I think there's three teams that can make it. I don't think.
- [27:30]
D
I think.
- [27:30]
B
I think they're. Look, look, man, I can never say never. But yes, there's there's definitely three teams, and I would like to hear who your team are, but I definitely say Nick Celtics. And I would probably put the Pistons up there. Yeah. If they get back.
- [27:42]
A
I'm big. I'm big time out on the Cavs. I just. I just refuse to believe.
- [27:45]
B
Yeah, I don't believe Donovan.
- [27:46]
A
I told Greg. I think I know the Hawks. I didn't watch the game tonight. Cavs did beat the Hawks tonight, but I did say, like, and the Cavs would probably win this series, but I'm gonna pick the Hawks to beat the Cavs if that's the 5, 4 matchup. Like, I just. I don't know. I just can't imagine the Cavs after all this. James Harden's what's gonna. All of a sudden that's propelling them to the Finals. Like, I just. I don't know. Like, I just don't. I just don't believe we're living in that reality. Like, I just. I just don't see how that that comes to be the case.
- [28:12]
B
I just don't see them having, like, a physical edge because, like, they, like, I think it's a talented team, but they, like, at least with the Knicks, I know they can at least play physical. They probably don't like to play physical all the time, like, outside of Brunson and Hart, but, like, I know they can. I don't see that with the Cavs whatsoever, man. And, like, come on, let's be real. We're talking about two guys in Donovan, Mitchell and James Harden, Guys who are, like, guys who can't get past the semis. And James Hard's like a national choke artist at this point, man. Like, you want me. You want me to believe that this guy who was gone from team to team to team to team is now finally gonna go be like, this is it, guys. Great playmaker, but he's not, as to your point, like this. Now, this is. This is who we've been waiting for. You're telling me you had four legitimate all Stars on that team, and now it's like, oh, yeah, we got the different all Star now. Don't worry. Guy can't play defense, but he's gonna do it for us.
- [29:05]
A
Don't worry.
- [29:06]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's an interesting matchup.
- [29:09]
A
The.
- [29:09]
D
The four five. So if you look at the box score tonight, Evan Mobley almost had a 2020 game. He bounds tonight. And with the Hawks, they don't have the. The physical makeup of a team that I think is going to give the Cavs problems. The Cavs have issues with like Burley, Big Ben, the Mitchell Robinson's of the world, the Jaylen Durance of the world. So the more I think about that matchup, I actually think the Cavs probably win that series and win that series relatively easily just because Allen and Mobley are just bigger than everybody on the court for the Hawks. Like the Hawks have a congu playing center and he's six nine, you know. So I think it the Hawks are going to struggle.
- [29:48]
A
Say that again since styles make fights like we talked about all the time.
- [29:51]
D
Yeah. So yeah, to my point, I think the question I have for Alex is who are the matchups for the Knicks that you think are bad matchups going into the playoffs?
- [30:04]
B
It's tax season and at Lifelock we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear.
- [30:10]
D
Billions.
- [30:11]
B
That's the amount of money in refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it. Guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com specialoffer for the threats you can't control. Terms apply if you work in university maintenance. Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Bad matchups I actually don't like. I know we've lost in Detroit this entire season. I don't think they're a bad matchup I think because we were never healthy, fully healthy to take on the Pistons in any of those matchups. Like there's a game that Towns missed, there's a game that OG I think Hart missed. So like don't really know. And I think it's, I think when you once you get into a seven game series and you know what you want to do, which is for them to like how do you slow down Cade because he's the only guy that's going to be able to create for that team. I think you'll see a little bit more. I think you'll see the Pistons struggle A bit more, especially in the half court. If you are able to slow him down, not gonna stop him. But I think if you slow him down, I'd probably say the one team that would probably give me slight pause would be the Celtics. Just because Tatum's back. I don't know what this game's gonna look like tomorrow. Like, I know there's a lot of guys on the Celtics that are questionable to play, so I don't know if the Celtics are going to be holding back a little bit, because it's one thing to say, all right, we played a team that has just been Jalen Brown this entire season, but now you throw Tatum back into there, who's been playing very well since he's returned on a completely different roster than you face last season. I just have no idea and what the approach is. And I think there's a. There's something to the unknown that, like, says, eh, this is not going to necessarily be the easiest battle there is. I think it's. I think they'll be fine against. I think the next will be fine against any other team. And it's not saying, like, I'm scared. The Celtics are. I think that game could go the distance, but I would say that if any team that does give me pause would be the Celtics.
- [32:46]
A
Let's. Let's dig into this matchup a little bit because I. I think. I think these two teams are pretty even on paper. And I'll be honest, I was caught very off guard by the Knicks, you know, last. Last postseason. The regular season matchups dictated to me that I was like, celtics are a bad matchup for the Knicks. And to your point, Alex, of earlier, sometimes you just got to wait and see what happens in the playoffs. Things. Things find a way to change. And even before the Tatum injury, y' all were going to be up three to one, right? Like, that was how that series was going. We can. We could litigate the past, but we're going to choose not to. And let's look ahead at, like, these teams and, you know, where they're at right now. And so I'm curious, Alex, like you said, Tatum's kind of an X factor, right? Like, he's starting to round into shape. Like, he's really starting to look like an apex version of himself, which has even caught us off guard. Really has me kind of, you know, wandering in the stars for, you know, a season that I was just.
- [33:37]
B
Nice guys. Must be nice.
- [33:40]
D
Hey, this is so fun. As a Celtics fan, Alex, like, we're. We're Just everything is gravy at this point.
- [33:45]
A
You can try your best. Player getting hurt and then having a surprise season.
- [33:47]
D
It's fantastic. It's the best. It's so much better. Title.
- [33:52]
B
Look, man. And look, I go to the. I go to TD garden enough where I'm like, I'm around Celtics fans. I'm always there for, you know, Nick Celtics game. I know you guys know your stuff. I'll say this, though. You guys have been blessed for so much for so long, where it's like, all right, guys, we got Kyrie, we got Gordon Hayward. Things are going to be even better, all right? Because even when you had it, it was like, holy cow, this is. This is insanity. And I liked it. I like that. King of the fourth, man. I love that whole. I love that. I love that. I love.
- [34:22]
A
It's funny, dude. We've compared that to this team a bunch. Like, the vibes of that team feel like this team, except we have two first team, all NBA guys. Like, that's kind of the difference.
- [34:34]
D
Yeah, we're not relying. We're not relying on Jonas Jarebco for some big minutes,
- [34:41]
B
you know, Like. But I would say, like, when you look at. Like, when you just look at how blessed this team was, it's like, to me, I'm like, really, man? That now you got to get Tatum back. Like, you guys had, like, you guys drafted two wings. You guys were great. You've been to NBA Finals. You've been to Eastern Conference finals. Like, there's been no tomorrow. And now you get this guy back, and now everything's like, ah, everything's fine, man. I will say, though, I did believe in Jalen Brown this season. There's some people who are like. And I'm like, he's got the opportunity now. He's got the green light. You watch. I actually. I kind of felt like he was. I didn't expect you to go to this height, but I thought he would do a good enough job to hold that team down. I thought they would be a top four team coming to this season, which is jb. But he's.
- [35:21]
A
He's exceeded our expectations. I mean, Greg's one of the biggest JB supporters in the entire Celtics. Verse. And, like, I think he's even gone past, like, I would. You know, I'll let you speak for yourself. But even gone past what you were expecting for this season?
- [35:32]
D
Yeah, I thought second team all NBA was his ceiling. I just. I just thought there was a level of playmaking that he never really had the opportunity to show, but I just didn't believe it. You know, game five against the Knicks last year was his kind of masterpiece. Right. And I think that in. In that game, I was like, oh, Jalen actually, like, held off. Anunoby played at a pace that I've never seen him play at before. And then game six, he was awful. Right. So I was like, I don't know where his season's gonna fall. I don't know if he's going to be able to do that consistently without having a real number two to just like, give him some. Some time to breathe. He didn't have any time to breathe this entire season. He had the full force of every defensive game plan thrown at him game after game, minute after minute. Best defender on him at all times, Seeing three bodies in the pain anytime he drove. And he just continued to level up to the point where I. I legitimately think, like, all the people that say he's not a first team, all NBA people, I think they're insane. Like, he's by far like, just the narrative of what he was able to do with this Celtics team. Like, I heard maybe. Maybe it was Zach Lowe. Somebody said they had Kawhi Leonard over him on. On first team on B. I'm like, what the are we talking about? Like, why. Yes. In a vacuum and historically is a better player than Jalen Brown over the length of their career. You put Kawhi Leonard on the Celtics team with his inconsistency. The Celtics are a playing team right. As. As the Clippers are in the West. Jaylen Brown was there the entire season and he set the tone. And every single person in that organization will say Jaylen Brown is the reason that we are where we are this. This year. The national media drives me crazy with
- [37:10]
B
that Greg getting fired up. Let's go, man.
- [37:12]
D
Dude. I as well said I. I am the, like, one of the biggest JB stands in the entire.
- [37:17]
B
How many JB jerseys do you have?
- [37:20]
D
Oh, man, I'm a grown man. I don't buy. I don't buy anymore.
- [37:23]
A
Greg is banned from getting jerseys. He has the worst history of jersey collections. It's full of what Marcus Banks, Ricky Davis, like, it's. It's a bad line. Yeah, we. We had to cut Greg off from the team store at a certain point.
- [37:36]
B
Any.
- [37:37]
D
Anybody that I. Whose jersey I bought, they ended up climbing out with the Celtics.
- [37:41]
A
Yeah. So it's just. That's a no go for Greg. 100. Alex, I do have. I do have a guy on your team that I think tomorrow Night. And I think also going into the playoffs is one of the most interesting pieces of a Celtics Knicks matchup, and that's Mitchell Robinson. I think last year he was dominant and, and he would play 15 minutes and just dominate for 15 minutes and just get every offensive rebound. And he's honestly. And Greg, I don't know if you'll agree with this or not. I feel like he's like the only guy that Joe Missoula, whatever you can consider panicking for Joe Missoula looks like Mitchell Robinson feels to be like the guy that kind of sets him off. He's just like, immediately, we will do hack a Mitch until the. Until he's out of this game, because I cannot have him on this court.
- [38:24]
D
He's the entire reason we traded for Nikola Vuchevic. So talk to us about Mitchell Robinson.
- [38:28]
A
It's Vuch's last stand tomorrow night.
- [38:31]
B
Look, I love Mitch, man. And it's. What's crazy is just to watch him as like a player just grow. Like, because when he came into the league just foul prone as all hell and like even like up until Tibs got here, Tibs really helped him get to where he is. And now, you know, this season, like, him just maturing and just being locked in, dude is just the absolute unit. I mean, offensive boards, defensive boards, I mean, the man's going out there like playing 20 minutes and he's getting you 15 boards. Five of them will be offensive glass, you know what I mean? And, and the cool thing to see now is that they're finding him offensively because there was a little bit of a struggle for JB to like, get into a rhythm with Mitch. And now you not only see him like being a lob threat, but Mitch has also worked on his touch so he can finish around the rim off the glass, or just like finger roll under the hoop. And Mitch is just so important to this team. Like, he, he honestly, that guy, like, outside of Brunson and og, Mitch will probably be the third most important guy in my eyes. Just because what he brings defensively, he cleans up so much for everybody. So much. You go, if you get past jb, you gotta now deal with a guy who can just jump through the roof. And like, you really want to try him at the rim. I don't think you want to try him at the rim. And then now you're also talking about a guy who's got quick feet, who can guard you out on the perimeter and pick and roll so he doesn't have to drop. He could Stay at the level. He could do all those things. He's a guy who can generate turnovers. He has, like, great hands. To cause it to just, you know, to cause a steal, man. It's just I. I can't say enough about Mitch and this season and just playing in 20, like, if he played 65 games at full strength, this man is on first team defense, all defense. That's how good he is, man. I love the way that he plays and the fact, like, the fact that he's even added muscle to be like a body. I mean, look, you just watch him any game. You have to throw three bodies at him just to try to box him out. And sometimes that does even work. And if he's able to grab a board and you got three buys down there, someone's open on the perimeter. And that's the other added benefit to him too, is now he's kicking it out and so just creating open, look, threes for everybody. So Mitch's. There's not enough good things to say about Mitch, man, because there's been a point like in this time where people are like, yo, you gotta trade Mitch because he's injury prone. Injury prone. And shout out to the medical staff for keeping him healthy, man, this year, knock on wood, you know, can make it throughout the entire postseason, too. But the way that he's able to play, big difference maker big. And like to have him and OG out there, oh, my God, just salivate thinking about the defense he could throw out there. When he's out there, man.
- [41:04]
A
Yeah, he's. He's the guy that scares me the most in your team. I'm excited to see how much Joe Missoula really pushes the Hackaman strategy, because I feel like if we get to this, you know what, what seems like it could be a second round matchup, I think it's going to get extreme. I think it's going to get a little awkward. It's going to get a little weird, which is honestly, like, that's how Joe Missoula prefers it, right? Like, that's, that's the space that he wants to live in. He wants the crowd to be there. He wants the, you know, every player to feel this awkwardness and this, this strange. And I don't think he's going to be bashful about, you know, using. The Celtics this year are much deeper with guys that, that they're willing to play. And so I think when, you know, when you have all of the wings the Celtics do, he's gonna be like, fine, go ahead they're going to be the ones that the Jordan Walshes, the uwu, Gonzalez is the Bayless Ironmans that aren't going to play more than 15 to 20 minutes in a playoff game anyways. Like, I don't think he's gonna. Gonna question it one bit. And I think that's gonna be. I mean, it was a really interesting part of the series last year. I think it will get even more interesting if we get ourselves, you know, a two, two game game and it becomes this chess match of, when do you play Mitch? How long can you play Mitch? What's Joe gonna do? Like, I, I think this series is gonna be super fascinating if we do get. If we get lucky enough to get Celtics Knicks back.
- [42:16]
D
The last. Dude, the last thing I want to see is Hackamich. I, I don't like the strategy, mostly
- [42:21]
A
because it's bad to watch, but.
- [42:23]
D
No, no, I, I don't care about the optics of it. I'm just thinking like, pure strategy. When you have a team that has somebody who's so good at getting to the free throw line, like Jalen Brunson, and so good at, you know, taking advantage of. Being in, being in the advantage and, and being in the bonus, you don't put teams in the bonus willingly just to get somebody off the court. Just play basketball. Like, I, I'm okay with it for a game a minute here or there, like, very situationally. But if Missoula decides to put his team in the bonus early just to get Mitch Robinson off the court, which I don't think he would do, that would just drive me crazy. And, and as a fan, like, when I, when I watch it, I don't know how you feel when you see Mitch at the line, Alex, but as a Celtics fan, like, anyone that he hits, it just deflates me. Unless he goes like, oh, for eight, right? I like, I think it's. It was a bad strategy because the one he hits, I'm like, oh, God damn it. He hit a free throw. And I'm sure as a Knicks fan, it feels like the complete opposite, man.
- [43:21]
B
That. And let me tell you something, because they was, they did try that. And I think it was against the Cavs, like, it was against the Cavs. It might have been sixes. I got to go back and watch. But like, they asked Mitch, I think it was against the cast, like, they were hacking Mitch. JB Biggerstaff wanted them to hack Mitch. And then late in the game, he knocks all his free throws down. And it's like, you, like, I Felt like a proud father. I was like that. That's my boy right there. I was like that, that's my boy, man. Like, we worked. We worked in the. We've worked on the playground. We're putting up shots before this game, man. Like, he knew what he had to do. He knew the assignment.
- [43:55]
A
It.
- [43:56]
B
And it's just damn. Like, when he does, and especially against the Celtics, like, when he hits free throws, it's like, it's like even added bonus, man, because you're like, you know what the strategy is. You know, like, why they want to do it. You know that he's a. You know that he is a pain in the ass to the Celtics. But when they try to get him off the court, because last year tips were like, appeased. That too, like, all right, man, get him off the court. Like, we can't have this. And it's like, like, damn, you let them win, man. You let them win. But you know that because of Missoula, it's like we'll foul every single time to send to the line to slow this thing down, down. Because if we send him to the line, EQ's missing, we will eventually get back in this game, which is what the other pain in the ass situation is about, that whole thing. So I know you don't. Greg's like, you hate it. I'm like, I hate it too, because. For other reasons. Because I've seen it actually work. That's my.
- [44:47]
A
Well, Alex, we'll get you out of here on this. So tomorrow night, Celtics, Knicks, final, final regular season battle between these teams. Right now, it's looking like this could be the 2.3seed in the east, which would ultimately lead to a second round matchup. So I know tomorrow it's going to be the first time with Tatum. It's Tatum's first game back in msg. He talked about it after the Celtics win against the Hornets the other night. A little bit of ptsd. And like, honestly, I hadn't even thought about that mental component of it. Even though obviously it's. It's clearly obvious. We take two seconds to think about it. And for me, I'm actually really glad that he's getting a chance to do this at the end of a regular season. That game that matters, but also kind of probably doesn't matter in the long run, right? Like, it's better this than a Game 3 when it's 1:1 and going into MSG, like, it's better for tape to rip this band aid off now. So I'm curious Alex, you've mentioned a couple times, like, you've. You've been able to look at the Celtics, Knicks, but it's just been the Jalen Brown, Nick. Jalen Brown, Celtics. Excuse me, me. Tomorrow night, it's the Jaylen Brown, Jason Tatum, Celtics, which, you know, kind of takes what this whole Celtics, nice ride has been to a whole new level with the way that he's looked. So what are the things that you're looking to try to learn or understand about this matchup tomorrow night that will then kind of give you a better idea of how you feel about this as a postseason matchup?
- [46:00]
B
I think it's just how the starting five matches have been total because, you know, it's. It's different when you have Drew KP that entire starting five. It's a little different. I. And there was like this, like, when you guys won the chip, there was just like this, as the new kids would say, or about the team, where it's like, oh, my God, this. It was just, like, overwhelming where it's like, this is a really, really good team. Do we have enough to go? Like, obviously, as a fan, I'm gonna believe that anything can happen, right? But it's like when you just, like, there's, like, the heart that believes that and then there's the brain. Like, can we actually do this? Like, this team is, like, actually really nice. Like, because the way that you guys were playing that year, it was just dominant. Like, any team that came up against you was like, all right, let's take him out back and beat them. And like, it was like that every single year. And so there's not that this season. So I'm just curious, is it going to be like a more routine type of game where, hey, is this just like a regular wire to wire type game? Is can the Knicks go out there and, you know, slow down Tatum? Can they make him feel uncomfortable? You know, in the past, I've seen, you know, prior to even getting OG on the team, I've seen Josh Hart guard Tatum and force him just to shoot threes and deter him from getting into the paint. Do we change up the matchups? Because it's not the same as it was in the past? Are we going to be okay if we just leave? You know, maybe you say, hey, Tatum, since Tatum's the best player, if you want to go with that and, like, how the media likes to run with it. Right. Do we put OG back on him? What Bridges struggle with with Brown, just because that's, you know, we want to Just, like, get a little off potato, like, on guard and feel. Make him feel uncomfortable, or do we go back to the rotation that does work, which is OG on Brown and Bridges on Tatum? I'm just curious how they're going to go with that. And, like, what switches are they gonna do or do they. Do they put Josh hard out there? I'm like, there's, like, so much strategically that I'm curious to see what's seen. Like, is Tatum also gonna be comfortable getting downhill against the Knicks? That's the other thing. Like, when you have Mitch out there, when you have OG out there, you know, you got McBride, you got all these guys who play defense at a high level. Like, is he. And he's out there because, you know they're gonna split time as usual. Is he going to be comfortable wanting to attack? And is that something that you can maximize? Say, all right, he doesn't want to drive. He's gonna, you know, just rely more on his jump shot and do sidestep threes. Is this a time that. Is this a look that we should be featuring a little bit more? Or how do we even tweak this lineup going into the postseason so that way we could still deter from getting downhill? Because when he does get downhill, that's when he becomes that playmaker. That's when he starts to become that rebounder and then extend possessions. Right? That's how I'm looking at. Like, how do you guard Tatum now that he's back? Because, let's be real, like, you came back from an Achilles injury, and it's like, obviously, it's much faster than I think what some anticipated. But even though you come back and to your point, well, like, this is where the injury happened last season, don't think that doesn't play with him psychologically. Don't think that, like, hey, I'm still, you know, trying to feel comfortable. Like, he may be playing like he's fine, but it's like, there's still a level of comfort saying, this is what happened last time, and the Knicks can play a physical brand of basketball, especially we have OG out there. It's like, does he want to test that? Does he want to test that this early and this far? And is Joe Missoula going to watch out for him? So these are kind of like the cues I'm going to be watching for in tomorrow's game. But what. Before I get out of here, man, like, what do you guys. What are you guys looking in tomorrow's matchup?
- [49:31]
D
I mean, if the Celtics Get a lead, which they got many leads against the Knicks last year. Can we hold on to it? That would be great. And not just shoot three pointers after three pointer after three pointer and go ISO ball. The thing that drives me crazy about this iteration and anytime you have like superstars and guys that can really take advantage of mismatches, the Celtics go mismatch hunting and it's always to their detriment. In, in my point of view, we allow defenses to just like kind of get set and then we hunt a mismatch. So help defense can be in position, ready to help. And it's like, oh, we're going to have Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum matched up against Jalen Brun in. We spend 15 seconds trying to get the switch that we want and then we have like a, a last five second jump shot and it's like, let's just run our offense. Our offense is great. Just run your offense. Stop trying to take advantage of things. Those mismatches will present themselves. You don't have to go pigeon hunting just to beat the Knicks like we've proven in my mind, we've proven we're the better team than the Knicks if we just play our game. And the moment we get out of character is when we lose. So I just want the Celtics to learn from their mistakes.
- [50:39]
B
Yeah.
- [50:40]
A
One of, one of the things I'm looking for, and you guys touched on a bunch of stuff that I'll be be looking for as well, is, and I mentioned it before, this is, this is Vuch's last stand here. Alex Vuch came back two games ago, you know, after an injury. He got injured the very first game that Tatum came back. Since we've traded Simons for him, it's been, you know, honestly, probably more, more bad than it's been good. That's just the reality of it. Even in the stretch before he got hurt, there was a few little moments I chose to believe that there could be something there with Vuch and, and he's come back the last two games against the Raptors and Hornets, probably two teams that the Celtics could play in the first round that are not really great matchups for him. But you know, Greg mentioned like, this is the reason, this is one of the reasons that we made that trade, other than the financial implications, is that Vuch and his size are what we're looking for. That we don't have to go up against Mitchell Robinson in those 15 minutes that he plays. It's to go up against Jared Allen, to go up against Beef Stew and Jalen Duran and like those guys and provide, you know, Nemi's Cater, who's been unbelievable this year. But he's not a guy that's going to be able to play 40 plus minutes. Like, that's just not in his bag right now. He does not have that. Like, he's got to be somewhere in that 25 to 30 minute range. So you got to figure a way to piece those other minutes together. And Luca Garza has been surprisingly good defensively. He's just, you know, he is what he is, but he's got great energy. And so he's trying to figure out, are we just rolling with Luca Garza and then we'll go small ball 5 or is there actually still something with Vuch? Like when Mitchell Robinson comes in, can he keep Mitchell Robinson from dominating on the offensive glass like he did last postseason when the Celtics just didn't have an answer for him with KP being, you know, whatever, you know, just being sick or whatever he, whatever was going on with him and then Al Horford being old, like, they just didn't have the right answers for it. And so I think that's a big thing for me to watch is just what does Vuch have? Because if he gives you nothing again, then you're kind of looking at like, all right, I think we're just gonna roll with Garza and Vuch will be a break in case of emergency. So I think it's going to be telling to see if that trade the Celtics made at the deadline is going to be. Have a meaningful impact and we'll see what he looks like tomorrow. Again, his third game back from injury, so there's some rust factor there. But if he can make a meaningful contribution against Mitchell Robinson, then the trade looks like it's much more worth it. If, even if, even if it's just for that singular moment, then it becomes strategically a play that you can have. So I think either way, man, we're set up for a great game tomorrow night. I really hope we get it back. Two, three. As long as you guys don't keep ducking to try to get into that four seed, then I think we're really set up for what could be a very promising second round magic again. Maybe then this is the conference finals if you guys do decide to go that route. But, man, I appreciate you for taking some time here. I know you got to run to another, another recording here, but, you know, Alex lives in Boston, for those of you listening here. So if you see him on the street be nice to him. Even if he's got that nasty orange and blue on, you know, Be nice. Man's got a family. He's a good dude. Alex, we appreciate you for joining us here, man.
- [53:28]
B
Appreciate both of you guys, man. Appreciate you guys for always having me back on and I love talking basketball with you guys, man. Love the energy you guys bring.
- [53:35]
A
Hey, we'll run it back in the playoffs, man. So ideally we'll get mix here and we'll run it back, but that's gonna do it for this episode of Green With Envy. As always, appreciate you guys rocking with us. Subscribe to YouTube. Follow us on Twitter. Make sure you're rocking with our Tick tock shout out to our intern Alex. Cutting up the clips and we will see you guys. This is the last one I think probably for the regular season. We'll probably see you guys as a recap show on Sunday. And then we got some playoff previews that we are lining up for next week. So we've made it to the end of the road here, guys. We will catch you guys after the game on Sunday. Deuces Every time I get this high I lose my mind it don't take much no more
- [54:15]
B
until I hit the
- [54:16]
D
floor
- [54:18]
A
Every time I hit this high
- [54:20]
B
it's you I find it don't take
- [54:23]
A
much no more until I met your dark
- [54:31]
C
why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kids legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids.
- [54:40]
B
We only met a month ago. Angie, the one you trust to find
- [54:43]
D
the ones you trust.
- [54:43]
B
Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.