← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Celtics Preseason First Impressions: Simons, Minott, Hugo, Garza, and Boucher
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- [00:00]
A
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A
Green with Envy with Will and Greg. All right, everybody, three games into the preseason, it's time for first impressions. We're talking about all of the new guys, the newest Boston Celtics. That's who we're examining today here on Green with Envy. So you guys know the deal.
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B
Let's lock in.
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A
Welcome into another edition of Green with Envy. As always, this is your boy Will. We're checking in. How you doing? How you live? Joining me because each and every time my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Meneakis. Greg, it's time to do some first impressions and I'm gonna tell you right off the jump, I was up this morning at 5:00am with, with baby girl. She took a nap around like 6am to 6:45. Got to catch up on some of recordings on a Monday morning. Caught up a little bit on the first half that I missed last night. Right or wrong, this team's making me a little excited. I'm excited to have this conversation. Yeah, man.
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B
They're gonna be fun. They're gonna be fun. Have you had a chance to listen to Simmons conversation with Goldsberry last week?
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A
I, I believe I did. But refresh me on the, the point that you're gonna go for. I'm 90 sure I listen to it.
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B
Just, I mean Simmons was basically saying the same stuff, saying about how the Celtics are going to be like one of the most fun league pass teams this year just because you don't know what you're going to expect with them. He was thinking they're going to shoot like an insane, an insane amount of three pointers. I do think they're going to shoot a lot of three pointers. But going off of, I don't know if you caught Joe Missoula's angry press conference answer to. I think it was Jack Simone who asked the question where he was like, stop asking me about three pointers. Like, I've told you what the Celtics offense is. The Celtics offense is creating advantages in two on one. He just went full robot. So it was just like, it, it was really spicy. It was just fun. Just kind of listening to Simmons and Goldsberry talk about it and they, they had some conversations that I, I want to bring up in the context of the new guys, but I just wanted to see if you'd listen to it yet.
- [03:11]
A
Yeah, yeah. So definitely we can connect on that. But for this episode, we're going to focus specifically on the new guys. So that's rookies, guys that weren't on this team last year. We're going to talk so much about Peyton Pritchard, Derrick White, Jaylen Brown, going to put them to the side for this podcast. This is all about the newbies. We've got three games of our first impressions now, so now we actually have something to base this on. Right. Like we've been going off of, theoretically. What does this guy do? We actually have seen at least, you know, key word, Greg. What's. What. What's the key phrase? Anytime. We're early in the season here.
- [03:47]
B
Expectations, small sample size.
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A
Okay, we've got a small sample size, but we have something to go off here. So we want to kind of go by player by player here and just kind of give you our first thoughts across these first three preseason games. Greg, I feel like we can just bounce this back and forth. You choose the guy. I choose a guy until we, we kind of run out. So I'll, I'll pass it to you here. A little bit of a quasi pass on the rock, if you will. Who's the first guy that you want to talk about out of the. Out of the newbies from these first three games?
- [04:19]
B
The first guy I want to talk about is Josh Minot. But before we get into that, I do want to give a little bit more context to the Simmons and Goldsbury conversation because I, I wanted to think about first impressions in the context of a larger trend within the league. So they were discussing on the podcast how for the first time ever last season, more rebounds came off of three pointers than two pointers. And Goldsberry brought up how when he was at Grantland, he did a whole heat check, heat chart, map of where rebounds happened on the court. Right. And it just got me thinking.
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A
Part of this combo.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it Just got me thinking about where the league is trending. Right. On the broadcast last night on espn, Doris Burke and Mark Jones were talking about. Because I haven't had a chance to watch all of the preseason, Right. I've really just watching the Celtics, how across the league pickup points are like full court or 3/4 court. Everybody seems to be learning from what OKC did and what Indiana did last year as the teams to most recent recently make it to the finals and see if that's something like an inefficiency that they also can exploit. Right. So it's all, all about finding those inefficiencies and being ahead of the curve rather than responding to the curve. Right. So OKC in Indiana were ahead of the curve and they've been ahead of the curve for a couple years. So how do you build a team that accounts for a faster pace, longer rebounds, while continuing to build on Joe Missoula's overall philosophy of advantage basketball? As he said, create two on ones and then take advantage of it, whether that leads to a three pointer or a layup. Right. So some things I was thinking about, you need athletes on defense, you need ball handlers on offense, you need players who know how and when to set screens. You need players who know how to read screens and when to cut. You need shooters, you need to make quick decisions if you're not a ball handler. And you need to process the game quickly in their role. Right. So whoever it is, process the game quickly in your role. So who fits this ideology on the Celtics, especially in the context of the new guys, if this is where the team and the league is trending? And it just brought me to Josh Minot, right? Because I think with what he does, he's an athlete, first of all, first and foremost, best athlete on the team. And I don't think there's a question about it. Like, the bounciness that I see out of this guy, like every step that he takes, it seems like there are springs in his shoes. I always get these Instagram ads for like a soul that you can put into a shoe. I think it's called like Victory Souls and it's supposed to like increase your vertical jump and make you more spring.
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A
Is this the new, what was it, Nike shocks that had the springs in them? Right. This is, this is the new age version of it.
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B
No, but it's like he's. He's in one of the Nike shocks commercials. That's a great way to think about it. He's not necessarily a ball handler in offense but he knows how to make quick decisions when given the ball. Right. He's, it's just like spurs type philosophy. He's shooting the ball quickly or he's driving a close out and looking a dunk on somebody and he's playing out in transition and he seems to be a pretty intuitive cutter as well. So I have, I think he's a.
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A
Great cutter so far is one of the things. And that's, that was interesting because that was one of Joe's big points in that rant is that that hey, if we don't have the same 38 to 40 shooters everywhere we did last year, then cool, somebody cut, make a new two on one. And, and that has been a point of emphasis and specifically he stood out in that regard.
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B
Absolutely. And shooting, you know, I, I think it's going to be a roller coaster with him shooting three pointers just because it's very mechanical the way that he shoots and it's not pretty. But he, he has made a couple three pointers and it seems like this is something he's been working on just listening to all the news and notes over the past couple of years. He's just been living in the gym trying to develop a passable NBA three point shot. So I think of all the guys first impressions, Josh Minot's been the one guy where I'm like, you know what, as the league is trending in this direction, I think it's trending towards players like Josh Minot who might be able to grab those long rebounds that are coming off of three pointers versus two pointers, who's going to thrive in an up tempo 94 foot game. I think Josh Minot is kind of the prototypical guy and it's really cool. Cool to see the front office looking at this off season as a chance to add pieces that fit a trend that they were seeing.
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A
Yeah, it's kind of interesting when you use that framework of the Goldsberry and Simmons conversation because I think just off the top of my head when you were going through that and kind of listing out what are the attributes or skills that each person needs to have. I think a lot of the guys that we're going to talk about for the newbies, they do probably don't fit all of them, but they fit some of the key elements to that. And so with Josh Minot, he has without a doubt, I think he's MVP of the preseason through three games as far as just, you know, where he's at based on expectations like I didn't and not knowing where this was going to go with, with, with these new guys. He's been the guy that I'm looking at where, you know, this is an absolute overreaction. But is he finally the developmental wing project that Brad Stevens has been trying to solve for maybe five, six years? Maybe it's Josh Minot. I don't know. Maybe it might be in one of the other new guys that we'll talk about in a little bit as well. But I think between the two of them, I'm alluding to Ugo Gonz, who we will talk about some more here eventually. Like between the two of them, maybe one of them two. One of them two is going to be that developmental project that, you know, he tried to get with Romeo Langford, tried to get with, with Aaron Neesmith, who worked out, just wasn't going to have the opportunity to grow as we've talked about many times here, you know, tried to fill the void with o'.
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B
Shea.
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A
BR says we talked about Tory Craig, you know, Jordan Walsh, who, you know, he didn't play last night. And I think Jordan Walsh is a guy that's probably seen his time pass here in Boston. That's a, you know, I think that's a, probably a true reaction, not even an overreaction. That's just the truth is that it's probably not gonna happen. But I think that's another example of different guys that Brad has tried to find. And maybe Josh Minot, he's the first one out of this group so far that, like, you know, I'm, I'm feeling pretty good about. And again, a little bit of an overreaction, three preseason games. But I think he's the guy that you look at right now that you say, okay, this is a rotation guy. This is. And he's 22 years old, right? Like, he's, he's still very, very young. I think three years in the league and you know, he was in Minnesota. And you think about Minnesota, they've been so wing heavy right between Ant Jaden McDaniels, Nikhil Alexander Walker. Like, they've had really good wing sets that he. And they've been really healthy. So he hasn't had an opportunity.
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B
Well, I mean, you just mentioned Jaden McDaniels, right? And like, you're not going to play Josh Minot over Jaden McDaniels because Josh Minot's ceiling is Jaden McDaniels, right? You already have the ceiling on roster. So, like, why are you going to bring in the lesser version of him, the developmental version of him. When you've already developed Jaden McDaniels into Jaden McDaniels. Right. There was just like, no, no space for Josh Minot on Minnesota.
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C
And he's.
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B
He was on Minnesota for three seasons. Right. He's 22 years old. He's someone that they've been developing. And it seems like, you know, just like the Celtics developed Aaron Nesmith to a point and then he flourished with Indiana. Maybe this is the karma for Aaron Nesmith is that we're taking advantage of someone else who developed in another system and has come over here. We got him on a two year minimum contract, so.
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A
And the biggest difference is this team would have been an opportunity where Aaron Nesmith, you could have been a little bit more loose with his developmental minutes. Right. In the situation he was in, we were. He went to the NBA finals, you know, as a rookie. Right. That was that team, the 2022 team. Or maybe second year. I can't remember his rookie year, second year. But like, there wasn't room to say, hey, let's let this guy let it fly, make a few mistakes. It's going to be okay. Josh Mein's going to have that freedom on this team. And this team's gonna be deep. They're gonna. They're gonna rotate guys in seemingly. And it feels like Josh mind that's going to be a constant for this team.
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B
Well, when you think about, when you think about him, especially when Tatum comes back, like a lineup of white, Brown, Tatum, Minot and Boucher who started last night. Yeah. Insert big or they find someone that can actually play the five like that. Dude. This is the missing piece that we've been looking for. And this is obviously three preseason games against C level competition.
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A
Yeah. We do need to add in. We've played three preseason games. Not a single starter from any of these teams has played in these games. So we understand there is that giant ass. I think Santi Aldama is the closest thing to a starter that has played in these three games. So we understand that.
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B
But you just think of like the pieces that need to fit around the other guys. Because you're not asking Josh Minot to come in and be, you know, a top four option. You're asking him to be the fifth option anytime he's on the court. Right. And I think as a fifth option, all you have to do is be really good in the role that you have and understand how to play that role. And I want to pause there because when we get into our one team One player. I want to come back to this point in the conversation.
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A
Yeah, I like that. But I think without a doubt that was the first guy that we should have gone to because like I said, I think he's the MVP of the preseason so far. I'm gonna go to another guy here and this is probably the biggest, newest incoming edition. Let's talk about Anthony Simons because this is a guy that openly. You and I both admitted we don't have a ton of exposure to outside of highlights. So this is really getting the first full Anthony Simons experience. So just quickly to run down. He didn't play the opening night against Memphis, but against Toronto, Anthony Simons played just under 26 minutes, 6 of 13 from the field, 2 of 7 from three. Finished with 18 points, two rebound bouncing three assists. Last night against Cleveland, he plays 25 minutes again, 6:12 from the field, 6 of 9 from the three point line, 3 of 3 from the free throw line, 21 points, two rebounds, two assists. And I'm very curious to get your initial thoughts on on Anthony Simons for me so far. And I'm just putting the defense to the side because of what we just mentioned of these are not guys that he's not getting targeted, right? It doesn't matter if he's getting targeted right now. Like they don't have. There's no guys out there to be able to do this. So I need to see defensively what he looks like more when we get to the regular season and then I can make a judgment, you know, after, you know, after we see that. But offensively he kind of lives up to the billing of what I expected. Minus one thing that you texted me the other day or you texted last night is I haven't really seen that explosive athleticism that I thought we might see a little bit more. But. But offensively he's a tough shot maker, right? Like that's kind of one and that's something that this team needs to be clear because outside of Jalen Pritchard to a Pritchard and Derrick White to a degree, but they are smaller. Like Anthony Simons feels like probably the second best guy. It's just like, hey, we need to get a shot. Here's five seconds on the clock, six seconds on the clock. Just go get a shot. The one thing that does stick out is it does feel like he dribbles the air out of the ball a little bit. And so from a movement playing quick. It's interesting because when before we started seeing some of these games, we were talking about the pace. The pace, the pace. That's all everyone's talking about in training camp. We're like, you know, this might fit. This guy who's athletic, wants to get up and down. He actually seems like he slows it up a little bit, like he actually kind of takes it out of that rhythm a little bit. And, and so I'm interested to see what your thoughts have been because scoring wise, tough shot maker gets real hot, can make tough shots. Obviously. You know, it's all over Twitter. It's like, does he look a little dame lightish, like, you know, kind of makes sense. That was a little bit of his mentor in, in Portland. Got to watch him. He's just been, he's been, he's been as advertised to me so far. So what, what have been your thoughts on Anthony Simons through two preseason games that he's played? Out of the three?
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- [18:05]
B
Well, you mentioned the Dame light idea. There was even a clip last night where Scalabrini called him a Dame little clone. Right. And he brought it up that, you know, the. The little punch, dribble, step back that he can get off, like, at a moment's notice. That is the shot that he clearly honed and developed under Dame Lillard's tutelage. Right. And it's. It's pretty much an impossible shot to guard or block, which brings up the idea of his athleticism, because that was the one thing that stood out to me, is like, he's. He's an effortless athlete, but you. He's kind of always kind of like Cade Cunningham ish, right? Where he's always playing at this one pace and he's good at, like, changing up the tempo. But you almost never see him go full board, and you wonder what full board actually looks like from him. Like, when does he explode? Like, where's the juice with that athleticism? So that was something that stood out to me. I was just kind of expecting a little bit more burst versus, like, this very fluid, balletic way that he plays. Right. So in regards to him dribbling the air out of the ball, that was one thing that I kind of saw that goes along with this idea of being, like, a very fluid, nonchalant type athlete is he doesn't really have point guard handles. And I think that if you're. If you're. Yeah. If you're trending towards a league in which you need to be able to bring the ball up against 94ft, like, he's not the guy that you're gonna give the ball to and say, hey, handle this pressure. We're gonna be good. Right? Like, he just doesn't really have that. He's just a little bit too slow with it, and he accepts the pressure versus attacking the pressure. Then I think you need to attack pressure. If someone is coming up against you full court, like Derrick White, like, when Derrick White gets the ball just goes. He doesn't really have, like, great handle, but it's a functional handle. And Simons has this, like, kind of pretty handle, but it's not as functional against pressure. So that was kind of what stood out to me. Doesn't have the point guard handles that I was kind of expecting him to have a little bit more of.
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A
And then jump in on this point. Yeah, you go to your next one. Because, like, that was something that really stood out to me, where it was like, in my head, we were like, okay, who are the ball Handling guards. Right. It's Derek Whites, Peyton Pritchard, Anthony Simons. And you know, the Raptors back. And the Raptors were, are a prime example of they. Regarding, you know, the full court picking up high, like really intense pressure. And I was like, oh, Simon seems kind of rattled by this. Like he's just like, you know, seven violations. Yeah. Like, and, and really it's like he's just dribbling to try to get out of this and eventually he's gonna have to put up a shot because he's had the ball already for eight, nine seconds. And so one of the things when you think about this, this picture that we started from that Goldsberry and Simmons conversation of higher pickup points, you know, picking up three quarter court, full court, whatever it might be. This is going to be a real struggle with this Celtics team when we, especially when you get to the, the front line starters that are going to be in these matchups. Because you mentioned Derrick White, he's just so intelligent. He knows how to be functional with. Even if he's not the best ball handler. Peyton Pritchard, without a doubt the best ball handler on the team. Like, not even close. But after that, we know Jalen's not the cleanest ball handler. Simons seemingly, I thought was going to be a little bit better with the ball and that was going to help alleviate some of that pressure. But you look outside of that and you know, Joe went to Ugo Gonzalez pretty quickly. It's like, all right, you're the next point guard. Like Hugo Gonzalez might be the third point guard on this team already. And so thinking of the ball pressure, that's an area that has stood out to me in the preseason that once teams are at full strength against this team, we're going to look at like this team's going to turn the ball over. Even with their best guys, they're not going to be able to handle that. So that's an area that's, that's definitely raised a little bit of a red flag through three games. Despite the Celtics, you know, winning the majority of the, the minutes in these three games, that's been something that I think has, has really stood out. And I've been a little surprised that Anthony Simons hasn't been, you know, hasn't been better at it. But that's me not knowing his game as well.
- [22:03]
B
Yeah. And I think that's where the whole Jason Tatum aspect of the season really comes into play, is that you could just throw him the ball and he, he can handle that pressure. Right. All right. So with Simon's, the last thing I was going to say, he's listed at 6:3, but he's one of those dudes that just plays so much smaller and looks so much smaller on the court. Like, he's like a little floating piece of paper or like a leaf. The leaf and forest gump. The feather and forest gump. Whatever it is. You're like, dude, like, you're so frail out there on the court. He just doesn't have that, like, big boat, like the dense bone aspect to him. He just doesn't have that. He just looks like a piece of paper out there and he. He plays really small.
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A
Yeah, he's. You know, I mentioned at the podium he kind of gave me Ricky Davis vibes. Hasn't really changed much. Like, I still, I still get a little bit of Ricky Davis. I'm just like, cool, this guy can score. He's a bucket. But, like, you know, for now I'm whelmed. Right. I'm not overwhelmed, not underwhelmed by him at this point.
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B
So here, here's. Here's something. I think he kind of looks like him, but Is he a 63 Brandon Ingram?
- [23:02]
A
He does kind of look like him. Right? That's. That's interesting. Potentially. Like, I think that that could be. I know. I think you're a little higher on Brandon Ingram than. Than I am, but obviously when you.
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B
Brandon Ingram, man, in the preseason.
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A
I haven't watched him yet, but I'm curious to see because I think, I think like I mentioned last episode or two episodes ago, I think that Raptor team is pretty fascinating. But yeah, that's not a bad comp. Like, is he. Is he just guard version of Brandon Ingram now? I think Brandon Ingram's a better facilitator. That's been the other part of Anthony Simons is like, I wish I was hoping there's a little bit more facility, facilitation to his game so far. Haven't really seen much of that. That's an area that I do think Brandon Ingram's slightly underrated in, is being able to be that facilitator or creator. But yeah, not a bad comp. So. Anthony Sim. Yeah, I think just kind of, kind of as expected so far. So we'll. We'll have to see and keep that going. But let's go to your next newbie you want to talk about.
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B
We gotta go, baby. Bringing. Bringing back the idea of the framework for this conversation. Right. You need athletes on defense was the first thing that I brought up and I think with ugo, dude, he's 19 years old. First of all, he's 19 years old. Like he's going to be a problem on defense in four years when he like really gets all the man muscle that, that he's going to develop over the next four years. And like his ability to play full court defense, which I think is going to be really important point of attack defense and also screen navigation, like his ability to navigate screens has been really impressive to me. Reminds me a little bit of Drew Holiday. Not gonna lie on, on defense. Just his ability to get around screens. Obviously nowhere near the defender that Drew is and that was in his prime. But like there are some flashes of it. You're like, oh damn. Like he really moved his feet well and you know, slid his hips around that screen or ducked his shoulder past the hip and was able to get through the screen like better than you would expect for a 19 year old. And I think that's just the seasoning that comes with playing professional basketball for several years overseas. Right. Ball handlers on offense was the second thing. As you said, he's probably the third point guard at this, at this point with Jason Tatum out.
- [25:14]
A
That's alarming for the team going into the season.
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B
But yeah, it's like a little, it's a little Derek Whitish on the. In the way that he handles the ball on offense. Right. It's functional. He's not going to do anything like he, we did see him bust out a sham God in, in game two and he, he loves that full speed Euro step that hasn't. He hasn't quite figured out how to set that up at the NBA level yet. But it's, it's very. A functional handle and he's got. He doesn't have the moves yet that go along with, with the handle, but it's tight, you know, it's a tight handle and he's not just going to get picked in the full court like, like somebody like Anthony Simons looks like he might, which is a little bit of a loose handle. You know, you need players who know how and when to set screens. We haven't necessarily seen him as a screen setter yet, but we've seen him off ball using screens. And there was one play last night where Keda got the ball in a delay action and there was a pin down on the, on the right side and Ugo decided to reject that and go back door and he had a wide open layup opportunity but Kata just didn't see the pass. But those like Those types of high IQ plays off ball, I think Ugo is going to be really good at. And when you pair him like Al Horford would have made that pass. Chris Saps Poingis would have made that pass. Rob Williams would have made that pass. K can pass, but he doesn't quite see it yet. So that's another thing. You need shooters. His shot isn't ugly. It's not Josh Minut.
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A
Right, right.
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B
But he's 19 and I think it's going to take some time for, for him to figure out the NBA range there. But I, I don't mind the shot at this point. I think mechanically it sound. You need to make quick decisions if you're not a ball handle. I think he, he's a very read and react type player off ball and you need to process the game quickly in your role. Like Hugo Gonzalez literally hits every point on that list for me except for the, the shooting is the one thing that he needs to really develop to, to be like Derrick White level of a role player. But you see, you see the, the, the, the vision there. Like I saw somebody post about this on Twitter where they were talking about that guy, what's his name? Like Cal Brenner, the seven foot one guy?
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A
Yeah, he's in Charlotte. It was a guy that the Celtics could have drafted with that second pick. They end up trading three different times or whatever.
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B
Exactly. And I saw some people be like, oh, we should have just taken that guy. Why'd we take Ugo? It's like Ugo is cockbrenner is not the prototype for where the NBA is trending right now. Ugo is, he's not six nine like our guy Spoony mistakenly said. But he, he, he's, you know, six six and he's an athlete. So I like what I see out of Ugo so far. Super impressed with him. And I love how you mentioned in our text thread that Josh Minot and Ugo Gonzalez are like a Celtic version of the Terror Twins.
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A
Yeah, the, the minor minor league version of that right there. And that's, that's exactly where I was going to go is when him and Minot specifically have been on the court together. I love that energy. Right. Like listen, we're, we're going back for a year to the Brad Stevens Isaiah Thomas type Erro where like we're gonna have to win some of these games unexpectedly just on like grit, effort, hustle, you know, playing the math game. Like we're gonna have to, to the point the Simmons is. We're have to win some of these games in a very weird way, right? And Joe Missoula is all about that. So I, I think the idea of just being able to at different times. And you, you mentioned this a couple episodes ago. You're gonna have to kind of influence the style of play of the game. Like, you're gonna have to make that impact to the game. You can't let the game come to you and then read and react because we don't have the talent to do that right now. So we have to kind of have a style, commit to it, and then make the other team feel our style. And even if for five minutes, it's, you come out with some type of lineup where, you know you're gonna have to surround Minot and Hugo with some other shooting, but like, just defensively, if it's like, hey, here's a three to five minute stretch, stretch, I just want you guys to go nuts, right? Like just play balls to the wall, up and down. And like when I think of, you know, what, what the Terror twins in Houston do, which is Amen Thompson and Ty Easton, for those of you that, that aren't, aren't quite familiar, is basically they just take the primary and secondary ball hitter. Like you guys are not dribbling. Like, I don't care where you guys go. And then they're so athletic. They can also then hop off and affect, you know, stuff at the rim. Like they're insane. Like, I don't think they're quite at that level. But there was a few times even last night in the Cleveland game where they're, you know, guarding the primary secondary ball handler. They give the ball to somebody in the post. Next thing you know they're coming from the blind side, right? Like they're going for that steal. And I just think that chaos is really fun so far. I want to see how it translates to the, to the regular season. And with Ugo, like you said, his defense feels like it's already getting to an NBA ready level. Right. And we'll see what it looks like, you know, when all of a sudden he's going up against, against, you know, whether it's, you know, Paul George on opening night or OG Anunoby a few days later, whatever. Like when we start to go up against real NBA guys, we'll, we'll know a little bit more. But I love what I see out of him. I love the potential. To your point, where the NBA is going, him being 19, this is again fitting into. Has Brad found his developmental. Because now that he has the time Brad may have found two guys, a 22 year old and 19 year old that he can actually develop to become that third guy, third man of that, you know, wing stretch of the Jays. When we don't have them out there, who's someone else that can make an impact. It could be these guys. Offensively, like you said, he's got a ways to go offensively. Shot doesn't look broken. He's only hit one, I think 13 so far. But he makes good decisions. Like, like he seems like a guy that sees the game, right? Like he sees. He's not overwhelmed by the speed of the game. Part of that's having come from already professionally. Even though he didn't get a ton of run in the Spanish professional league, he still has been around older professionals, seen guys that have been in the NBA and such. So I, I think for him it's going to be a little bit of a learning curve offensively. But I hope that he's a guy that Joe is just like, no matter what he's getting like, you know, 15 minutes a game or something. Like, I really want to see him just be given the chance to grow. Game over game, but very exciting. The potential of Ugo and I think Minot combined. I really want to see what those look like in those second units. All right, let's go to. Yeah, we got a couple guys left here. I think there's really two major guys that we should hit here. Let's go. I'll take Luca Garza here. There's two big men I think we need to go to here. I'll go to Luca Garza. Steady like that's the main word that just comes when I, when I see Luca Garza, like he's got his fault right. He's six, nine. Defensively it's gonna be a bit of a struggle, but when you go to the tenants of like where basketball is going, what it might look like in the inefficienc sees. Greg, you mentioned screen setting. We're gonna hear screen assist maybe 9 million times from scale this year when Luca Garza's on the court because he is a really good screen setter. Like that's like offensively, Luca Garza I think moves really, really well. Like he knows where to screen, he knows when to roll. He's got his limitations far as he's not putting up, he's not rolling and throwing down an alley. Oop like he'll shoot a couple of threes. Like I, I don't know how proficient he's going to be on that again, much like you mentioned with Josh Minot. I think it's going to be a little bit of a roller coaster if he's gonna them, but they're gonna, he's gonna. Joe Moul is gonna be okay with it if it's that two on one, back to the advantage basketball. But I think Luke has just been super steady throughout these games. 10 points, 10 rebounds in the game against Memphis. Let's see against Toronto out here he was 12.6 rebounds. And then against Cleveland last night, seven points, five rebounds, setting solid screens. Like, I don't think he's gonna wow you at any time. I don't think there's gonna be many games where I'm like, holy, Luca Garza is something else. But I just think he's go rock solid, steady, 15 to 20 minute big. That isn't going to get you killed. You got to hope that he's really hitting those, those boards because despite what some of the numbers say, overall my eyes tell me rebounds are a problem. The numbers necessarily don't match that. If you look at them just from like the, the holistic view. But watching it game to game, my eyes tell me that's going to be a problem. And Luka's got to be able to be a guy that can get you, depending on how many minutes he's playing, seven, eight rebounds and just be solid, solid on that end. But I think he's just been very steady. And yeah, the Luca Garza experience has. It's been nice. Been nice. That's what I got for you.
- [33:43]
B
And he, he just like Josh Minot. He's in the same situation back in Minnesota where Minot was playing behind wing players that were just better and more experienced for a contending team. He was playing behind Gobert Towns and Reed or Gobert Randall and Reed. Like, he's just. There's no minutes for you at the four, the five. And then McDaniels as well, because McDaniels sized up to the four. So like with him, he's just getting his opportunity to show what he can do. And there's a reason why he's been in the NBA on NBA rosters since, since he was drafted is because he's super smart and there's a reason why he was the Big Ten player of the year. Like he, he's, he's just really, really smart on the offensive side of the ball. Everything he does on offense is additive and, and you know, he's kind of like a little mixture of Luke Cornett and Al Horford but like nowhere near the potential of either of them. But in terms of how, how Missoula wants his offense to run and like the, the flow that needs to come within that offense, he's going to make sure things aren't gummed up when he's in the game. Right. He's going to add to the flow of the game. He's not going to be, you know, like Keita doesn't make the smoothest reads. He kind of like slows things up and he can only do a couple of court. Like Luca Garza is going to be able to make an impact offensively for the team. It's just Missoula's problem is going to be how does he figure out defense while Garza is on the court. Right. And it's just like I guess it's ball pressure and hoping that they can force a lot of turnovers while Garza is on the court.
- [35:18]
A
Yeah. Because the thing is like with Garza, even when he's in position on defense, he's just so athletically challenged that there's just certain guys that are just like cool. You have positions, position. I'm way more of an athlete than.
- [35:27]
B
You kind of got those Kendrick Perkins cement shoe feet, you know what I mean?
- [35:31]
A
Yeah. He doesn't have the quickest reaction time off the ground. So Even though he's 6 9, he can't get up to get that. And it's, you know, I mean you see constantly. They were talking about it obviously in the broadcast last night a bunch. The, and this was on the, I guess the, the Celtics broadcast, not necessarily the ESPN broadcast depending on which one you watched last night. The Missoula point where just hey, you gave up an offensive rebound. You're coming out just constantly rotating as and we'll see if he does that in the regular season. But clearly as, as you may have heard scout mention, it's a non negotiable. I don't know if you knew that Greg. It's a non negotiable as far as defensive rebounding goes. And, and I do think that's going to be really tough because Lucas in good position a lot of the times. It's just these guys are far more athletic and so it like you said defensively and this is going to go for all of the Celtics bigs, like you can see it is going to be a, a carousel of big gigs for this team. Just trying to figure it out night to night, you know. And I think it's going to take a While before Joe can get a real feel for, like, this matchup calls for Boucher and Garza, this matchup calls for Keda and Boucher or, you know, whatever it might be, because I just don't think any of these guys are going to have it consistently night to night that you're just like, okay, I know I have this. And I just got to figure out who's the third big, which was kind of last year, two to it early on in the season. Right? It was just okay. If we have Horford and Porzingis, all we got to do is figure out, is it Luke or Neemi? And then obviously Luke separated himself by a mile towards the, towards the end of the season. But that was kind of the, the only thing we had to talk about for a while in the preseason last year. And now it's just, you know, the rest of this team I'm feeling pretty confident about, but it's that front court that leaves you with a lot of questions. And like, Luca just, you know, been fine. And then that leads into, I think, the last newbie that we really need to talk about. Last significant newbie. Anyways, we can, we can briefly touch on anyone else that we want to hit on. But that brings us to Chris Boucher, who started last night. And I forget there was a comment I. I'll try to look it up here in a minute where it made it seem like last night's starting lineup could potentially be the starting lineup on opening night. And so that gave us Derrick White, Peyton Pritchard, Jalen Brown, Sam Houser, and Chris Boucher. And interesting offensive lineup. Little, Little interested, little interesting in the other regard, on the other end of the interesting spectrum as far as defensively that goes. But Chris Boucher, a guy who, when he was on the Raptors, I always, I could. It was one of some nights, if you caught him on the right night, you're like, ah, I see the potential. And then other nights you'd watch and go, I just don't see it. And I think that's kind of where we're gonna live with.
- [38:09]
B
I think part of it is, is just like how ugly his shot is. Is right? So when his shot's going in, you're like, oh, yeah, Chris Buet. But then when his shot's missing, you're like, that's not an NBA looking shot. It's just like. So, yeah, like, well, like, how does he have the green light to shoot those three pointers? But you know, when you think about how the Celtics have played over the Last couple of years, like, there's always been a stretch five. And aside from when Cornet's on the court. So Boucher, although he's not a five, I think offensively fits the philosophy of what Missoula wants out there with the option to have a stretch five. But Celtics basketball is not just shooting threes, Will Celtics basketball is creating two on ones and advantage two on ones.
- [38:50]
A
It's two on one. I don't care how you get. How many times I have to tell you, how many times you can ask me this.
- [38:53]
B
I've said this for three years. I've said this for three years now. So that was so good.
- [38:58]
A
I liked it. Missoula's not around. He's gonna. Missoula is gonna have. I mean, he always has some incredible quotes. This year, I think it's to go to. To another level, because now we're going to have actual contention and not just, hey, what's this? What's the championship outlook for this team?
- [39:12]
B
Right?
- [39:12]
A
Yeah.
- [39:13]
B
And it's. It's funny that, like, people still around the league still, even, like someone like Simmons who thinks of Missoula ball is just shooting three pointers, right? And on. On the ESPN broadcast, they. I guess they asked him about three pointers and he. He said, we're not. Like, I've never talked about three pointers before.
- [39:30]
A
He's always called it advantage basketball. That's that. Like, he always has. And that's. And we always corrected on this show where we're like. Because it gets frustrating when you watch a national broadcast and they're like, the team that only shoots threes. It's like, no, Like, I mean, yeah, we do shoot a lot of threes, but, like, it just feels lazy because of how many times he said it.
- [39:48]
B
Right? Right. So, yeah, I mean, that was just. That was just really funny to see. But I think with. With Boucher, the energy that he's bringing in. You know, it's the preseason against all subs. But I was thinking during the preseason, I was like, what if Chris Boucher was playing last year instead of Kristaps Porzingis in that Nick series? Like, like, what. What is the replacement level player that, like, floor that needed to replace Kristaps?
- [40:16]
A
What's the war on that? What's the war.
- [40:19]
B
Is it Chris Boucher? Because, like, you know, the three pointers, the energy on defense, He's. He's just fun. He's just a fun player to watch. And when you.
- [40:29]
A
Strange player. He's very weird to watch. Like, I'm I still don't have a feel for like, like, okay, this is a night Chris Boucher had like. I think it's going to be an interesting feel out process with him.
- [40:39]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't really know how, how much longevity there is with Chris boucher at the 5, but I think in certain matchups, for sure, you know, I don't think you're going to start Boucher at the Five against the, the Cavs or against the Knicks because we're just going to get pounded or against the Rockets. You know what I mean?
- [40:59]
A
Yeah.
- [40:59]
B
But there are certain teams that I think he can, he can definitely be part of that starting lineup. But I think what one of the benefits of this season is there's not going to be like a go to starting lineup. Missoula is going to be able to be like, hey, I'm gonna start whoever the. I think should start.
- [41:12]
A
Yeah, it's like jb, Derrick White, probably Pritchard will be Staples. And then whether it's Hauser, Cata, Boucher, Garza, maybe Josh Minot, like, maybe even Ugo. Yeah, that's just going to be a, a rotating group of. Who are we playing that night? What are the matchups? Dictator. What do I think they dictate? Or how do we want to play? And that's what we'll go. So anyone else out of the new. I mean, some of the newer guys that are like, lower down, like, they're, they haven't, they've gotten some run, but not a lot to be able to, to make. I will say this shout out to Wendell Moore on that dunk last night. That was electric. That was.
- [41:48]
B
Where do you go to school?
- [41:49]
A
Pretty impressive. He went to Duke, I'm pretty sure.
- [41:51]
B
Okay, that's what I thought.
- [41:52]
A
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, little small sample size. I've liked a little bit of what I've seen of Wendell Moore. Everyone else I haven't really been able to make. Make much of. But yeah, I mean, I think we've. Of the new guys that, that we've. That have. They're going to play a part in this season coming up. I do want to ask you this, Greg, before we go to. Interesting team, interesting player here as we look around the league before the season gets started here a week from Wednesday, by the way. So we're getting close guys. Anything that's, that's kind of. Let's take a negative turn just for a minute here. Anything that you found disappointing so far, it doesn't have to be the new Guys, this can be can be anywhere here. But anything that you've been been disappointed in or has gotten you, you know, extra levels of of concern here through three games.
- [42:42]
C
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- [43:58]
E
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- [44:29]
B
No, no. Preseason's all about looking for the silver lining, so I really haven't looked at any of the negatives. I if I re if you really want me to say something, maybe I was expecting Kada to pop a little.
- [44:41]
A
Bit more, but that was where I was going. There's that's probably the biggest thing for me is Kate has been been a pretty big disappointment through, you know, three games. He didn't play in the first game, Raptors game. I thought he was just awful. The three the I think was the third quarter where he just had three like inexcusable fouls. I think two offensive setting screen, another one. I think it was just out of control defensively and it's like man, I I definitely had A little bit more expectations for. For Keda. He doesn't. He. He had a little bit of a run in that. That Cleveland game where he didn't play a lot, but he had like at least a nice cut and a dunk and got an offensive rebound guy put it back. So it's like, all right, little something positive to work off. But I think Kate has definitely been the. Probably the biggest disappointment. And then I'd say Baylor Shireman might.
- [45:27]
B
Be number two part of that high expectations for Baylor. And by the way, Jordan Walsh is hurt.
- [45:33]
A
He.
- [45:33]
B
Jordan Walsh got hurt. He strained his adductor in the first game. That's why he only played eight minutes in the first game and he's been in close ever since.
- [45:41]
A
Okay, so maybe we reserve a little bit of judgment on. On Jordan Walsh. We'll see. See. But given the impressions that we've gotten from. From Mayanat and Ugo, it's going to be a little bit of an uphill hill battle for. For Jordan Walsh. So we'll have to see how that goes for the Celtics. They are back in action. Preseason finale at the TD Garden against the Raptors on Wednesday night. So we will give you our final pre. Pre season thoughts after that game to make sure you are locked in with us on YouTube and Twitter will go live after that. And then that gives us a full week off, Greg, until we have of the opening night against the Philadelphia 76ers on the 22nd. So Monday, it's Monday right now, the 13th, 22nd is the opening night against the Sixers. And then we're off and running from there. Knicks on Friday night. And then that goes right into the season from there. So as we have been doing here, let's wrap up today's episode with one interesting team, one interesting player from around the league. Greg, I'm gonna let you kick this one off here. Here. Who do you got for us?
- [46:44]
B
I'm gonna go Golden State Warriors, Jonathan Kaminga. And the reason. The reason why I bring this up is in the context of Josh Minot from earlier, right? Where Steve Kerr over the past three years has been wanting Jonathan Kaminga to just play the role that the Celtics envision for Josh Minot that the T Wolves see with Jaden McDaniels, right? And Jonathan Kaminga is like, hey, I want to be a featured offensive P. I don't want to play off the ball. I'm just gonna like do what I do on the court. Which is why last year in the playoffs, you see Steve Kerr playing dudes who have no business talent wise being compared in the same sentence to Jonathan Kaminga. But Steve Kerr is like, I'm not going to play Kaminga until I need someone to score the ball. Like, I don't need someone to score the ball right now because I got Steph Curry, Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green and you know, and pods and all those people that can figure out the offensive philosophy. But when Steph Curry goes out, he's like, okay, I need someone that actually can do something with the ball. So Kaminga, now you can play, but you're not going to play in a role because you don't know how to play that role and you're not willing to play that role. And with Kaminga, it's like, dude, the NBA is trending in a way for you to thrive. Like, you should be a phenomenal NBA player for the next five years. Just from all the things that we outlined earlier, if you figure out out one, the right team to be on or two, the team that you're on and you just have to swallow your ego and figure out how to play a role because you could be great, dude, you could be a piece to a championship winning team if you just did all the things that I outlined earlier. Right. But he's not a good screen setter. He, he is a good cutter. He, he can cut really well, but he, he just like does a lot of that leads.
- [48:36]
A
He could be a good rebounder. He doesn't necessarily commit to it. I think he could be. And that, that's been one of Kerr's points of emph, bro. Like I could, I should be able to play you 25 minutes and like you should go get like eight rebounds because like you're that athletic, you're that.
- [48:48]
B
Every long rebound is yours. My guy.
- [48:51]
A
Exactly. And then that's kind of. You know, I think they touched on this in the Goldberry and Simmons piece. But like, I think they started talking about Giannis where like those long rebounds because there's so many more three point shots. Like if you're a guy like Kaminga, you get that with momentum, just take off like, and all of a sudden you're a one man. Fast break. That's last night Kamingos. I did not. No. Did he throw down?
- [49:12]
B
Yeah, dude, check it out, check it out.
- [49:14]
A
Okay, I'll have to look that up. But, but yeah, I think, I think that's an interesting piece because I mean, Kaminga's always been the one. I mean he's really the last opportunity for the two timeline warriors to have any significance. Right. Like, after that, they're kind of just like, they're. They're back to, hey, whenever Steph runs out of gas, we're completely out of gas and we're just restarting over. So unless Kaminga either turns into something himself or he turns into something that they can turn into something else, this is their last chance. Really kind of hold on to it. And the warriors are like, you know, they're a retirement home, and I don't think they really have true championship expectations. But he's the one guy that, you know, through either his own play or turn or his play turning into something else that can potentially get them into that next level. Like, they're a really interesting team. Like, I'm gonna have fun watching them because I think, you know, when they're firing on all cylinders, like, Al Horva is going to be such a seamless fit there, even at his age. Like, him and Draymond on being able to be the facilitators off of a pick and roll, like in the short roll or pick and pop, more probably specifically without Horford and either being able to shoot the three or be able to then turn that from right back to him into another side pick and roll with him and Jimmy or Steph flaring off of wherever. God knows where he's coming from. Like, I think they're gonna be a really fun watch. They're going to be a really intelligent team. And to your point, I just don't know where Kaminga is going to fit in. He's either going to fit in or he's going to fit out, and we'll see what happens with it. But I do do think, to your point of where this podcast overall theme of where the NBA is going, he's going to be a guy that should be thriving, and it might just be one of those situations where he just has to go someplace else, and then we'll see, you know, if it works or if it doesn't work. All right. My interesting team. Interesting player. I'm going very obvious here, but to your point, I haven't been super locked into other teams in the. In the preseasons. I'm mostly catching a lot of high highlights, but Dallas Mavericks, Cooper flag. It looks real good, man. It looks real good. Yeah. And so, you know, obviously no one should give Nico any love or credit for. For what's happened with the Dallas Mavericks. It is what it is, though. And that team, even without Kyrie, is. Is kind of interesting because there's so much depth to that team. It's weird. Depth doesn't necessarily all make sense. There's not a lot, a lot of ball handing and creativity. Unless Cooper flag that dude already and you know, from dating back to, what was it, Team USA last year, where he was part of that, that alternate team and everyone just stamped him immediately, like the best players in the league were like, yeah, Cooper was like already one of the best guys on that team and you saw a few of the highlights come out and you're just like, yo, he's running with these guys, no problem. And you're already seeing that. You're seeing he's athletic, you're seeing his intelligence on the court, you're seeing he knocked down a couple of shots that I saw the other day and like, that's going to be massive. If Cooper can even be, be with what I'm assuming is going to be an outsized ball handling responsibility for a rookie, if he can even be, you know, a 34, 35%, three point shooter, that's going to be a massive boon to, to what the Mavericks are trying to do. But their length and size on defense, if they can hold up and potentially get, you know, Kyrie back, like Nico may have a one or two year window with that team. Still don't make the Luca trade, like it's still an abomination. But like that team is really, really interesting with the, the weird depth they have and if they get Kyrie back, like, could be an actual problem. So the Mavericks are a team I'm gonna, I'm really interested to, to watch for this upcoming season.
- [52:50]
B
Listen, as much as I hate Nico Harrison for that trade just and all the that he said after it and you know, falling ass backwards Kramer style into into Cooper Flag, it's just like Dallas Mavericks fans deserve, deserve a team that they want to root for and like to see the, the city like revolting against the, against Nico, but against the franchise and trickling down onto the basketball court, like that's not good for anybody, man. Like, the Mavs fans are good fans and they deserve a good product. And for the fans, it's good that they got the karma of Cooper Flag coming back to them because he's just so much fun, dude. Watching him on the court, like he just moves like a superstar. When you see him on the court, on both ends of the court, you're like, dude, this guy, guy, this guy, he's got it like the jumper's not the prettiest but he like, he's 6, 8 and he can get it off whenever he wants handles not the tightest, but you know he's going to figure that out with increased reps. And then defensively he's just an absolute menace out there in passing lanes. Not the smoothest on ball defender, but I don't think he's going to necessarily need to be with that team.
- [53:58]
A
I mean the crazy thing is he's in. Tatum is one of his like guys that he looks up to and obviously the brotherhood, Duke, all that stuff is like we say Tatum's superstar attribute is that you can't find anything that he's below average at. Right. He's either average, above average or great at every skill you need. That's kind of where Cooper Flag is trending and he's already feels like just about everything he's at least average in which is crazy for I, I think I heard Goldsberry talking about this as well. Like he reclassified. He's a year younger than he's supposed to be. Like he's supposed to is still crazy that he has a twin brother who's now a freshman at Maine and he's in the NBA because he reclassified. So like he's supposed to be a freshman in college this season.
- [54:39]
B
Right.
- [54:40]
A
And so now he's just, he's already in the pros and so yeah, the fact that he's already feeling like he's going to be average just about everything to above average already as an 1819 year old.
- [54:50]
B
He's like a mix. He's a mix of like LeBron, Jason Tatum and Andre Carolina Linko.
- [54:57]
A
Yeah, he's. Dude, it's gonna be fun.
- [54:59]
B
We.
- [54:59]
A
We may have to find a way to, to get to a Mavericks game this year. I don't know when the Celtics are going to Dallas, but we may need to find a way to go watch Cooper Flag in person. But speaking of LeBron out for the first couple weeks of the season, man, old man injury like sciatica. That's, that's. It's not a good sign for, for Father Time finally coming.
- [55:19]
B
Well, he's always had lower back issues. I remember when Steve Ye did that documentary with. With him shout out to our guy. Stevie Wood Island Media just I think just finished rapping or is releasing a new film called Baddy. I'll have to check in with him also you know in the hospital right now with his, his wife ta checking in on the Celtics preseason from, from the, from the.
- [55:46]
A
Crazy crazy dude. I I was, I was at the hospital with Mariana when it was Celtics playoffs and I was struggling to get to get the game on. Never mind. Preseason, that's.
- [55:56]
B
That's. That's hardcore. Shout out to you, Steve. Shout out to you, Ta. I hope. I hope everything's going well for you guys. But when he was doing that documentary with LeBron, I remember he said LeBron had a lumbar pillow. And Steve asked him like, hey, where'd you get that lumbar pillow? And I guess LeBron was really excited to talk about it and even showed Steve where to order it. So he's always had those issues, and the sciatica and the lumbar are all connected. So, you know, it just. It. It took 41 years for it to cause him to miss his first opening night in his entire career.
- [56:25]
A
Dude, year 23. And this is the first opening night that he's gonna miss. That is wild, man. Listen, I've. LeBron's personality, not really for me, but what he's done, what he does on the court, it's just insane what he's been able to do for this long. So I do hope that, you know, obviously, the stupid Hennessy ad, you know, everyone was like, is this his last season? Like, good chance. Could be, maybe not. We'll see. But, like, I want LeBron to go out properly. I will say that. Like, I, like, I need LeBron to go out properly and not just like, sinking away into the night with back issues. Like, you know, it doesn't need to win a championship. Obviously, I'm not gonna roof the Lakers win a championship, But I want LeBron to go out swinging like that. That just feels like the only way for it to be. But that's gonna do it for this episode here of Green with Envy. As we mentioned, we'll be back on Wednesday night following the preseason finale. Celtics, Raptors. Let's see if the Raptors will bring out any of their starting lineup. Hope. I hope we get at least the first half where we get, like, two. I think we will too, because there's like a week off for, I think, both teams after that. So I think we should get a little bit more analysis to talk about what these. And I think these are two teams that live in the same pocket of the Eastern Conference where there's like seven teams that could be the six seed or could be the 12 seed. So I. I think it's going to be interesting to watch. We'll have. We'll have a review of that game after it ends on Wednesday night. Night. Greg, as always, it's been a pleasure. I'm excited for this season. I think we're gonna have a lot of fun this year, so I'm looking forward to it, man. And yeah, everybody for tuning in. We will catch you guys Wednesday night after Selfless Raptors. I'm Will, this is Greg. We'll catch you guys later. Peace.
- [58:12]
B
Until I hit the floor.
- [58:16]
E
Every time.
- [58:16]
A
I hit this high it's you I find it don't take much no more Until I'm at your door.
- [58:28]
E
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