← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Celtics vs Spurs: An NBA Finals Preview w/ Aaron Blackerby of "The Silver and Black Coffee Hour"
00:51:50
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- [00:01]
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- [00:32]
Aaron Blackerby
Oh no, my coffee.
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Greg Ban
Bronnie.
- [00:36]
Will
Here new brawny 3 ply is now more absorbent.
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1-800-Flowers Advertiser
Wow, Got a clean shirt.
- [00:41]
Will
Do you wear plaid? Some of the strongest. This is Mike Gorman and you're listening
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Aaron Blackerby
to Green with Envy with Will and Greg.
- [00:49]
Will
All right, everybody, the Tatum return tour continues. Quick stop in Cleveland for some domination. And now it is on to San Antonio to take on the hottest team in the NBA and the alien Victor Wemb Yama. We've got a full preview coming up next with a special guest. This is Green with Envy, little coffee and Celtics for your morning. You know the deal. Let's lock in. What up, what up, what up? Welcome into another edition of Green with Envy, a special coffee in Celtics edition here on a Monday morning Celtics with a matinee victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers as Jason Tatum's return tour continues. And now it's coming right into Greg and I's backyard Tuesday night against the San Antonio spurs. Two seed in the west, two seed in the east. Showdown between the best defend the best two way defender, human form versus best two way defender alien form going down in San Antonio Celtics and Spurs on Tuesday night. As always, this is your boy Will. We are checking in. How you doing? How you living? Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of the podcast, one and only Greg Ban. Greg, we got a special friend, special guest we're about to welcome in here in a second but you and I got together last night for the end of that Cavs and Celtics game and Jason Tatum looking like Jason Tatum.
- [02:26]
Greg Ban
He looks pretty good, man. He looks really, really good. I'm excited to see him this week going up against the beasts of the Western Conference with the spurs tomorrow and then this Thunder on Thursday. So we'll see. You know the. I've got some text messages from people. What percentage is Jason Tatum at? We'll see when when we go up against the cream of the crop.
- [02:46]
Will
Yeah, we'll check back in after we go to the game live Tuesday night again, if you're going to be In San Antonio. Hit us up in the DMs. Hit us up at celticsnoisegmail.com. we'd love to try to meet up with some folks. We will be in the building for sure Tuesday night. And to help us set the stage for that long overdue, we're going to bring in here friend outside. Not just friend of the show, friend in general here. Aaron Blackerby, one of the hosts of the Silver and Black Coffee Hour, a Spurs podcast. Aaron, this is long overdue for our two podcasts to cross pollinate and happy that we're finally making it happen.
- [03:21]
Aaron Blackerby
Likewise. What up boys? Just happy to be on here with more of the Boston contingent in Austin, Texas, which, like, I hope y' all know this, but like there are so many northeasterners like from the New England area that like live in Austin. Like, I feel like though I don't watch as many Celtics games because I'm trying to watch, like I am watching like every spurs game. I feel like I am always peripherally able to understand what's going on with the Celtics just with the amount of Boston people in my life. So y' all are a part of that contingent. So I'm excited to be here and chop it up with y' all about this upcoming game, which y' all. Yalls boy, Sean Grandy had a really great tweet this morning. Did y' all see that?
- [04:09]
Greg Ban
Haven't seen it yet.
- [04:10]
Will
I have not.
- [04:12]
Aaron Blackerby
He was bringing up how Celtics and Spurs, two hottest teams since February 1st, both leading, I believe in like net rating at 1 and 2 and then and defensive rating at 1 and 2. So I mean, real heavyweight match coming up on Tuesday night. I don't know. Did y' all see that?
- [04:35]
Will
I got it pulled up right here. So since February 1, NBA best record 1, San Antonio 2 Boston NBA net rating since February 1 1, San Antonio 2 Boston NBA defense 1, Boston 2 San Antonio. And of course yesterday, you know, we mentioned for the Celtics, they came off a big road win against the Cavaliers yesterday in a Texas showdown. Just kind of belt to ass. Just spurs against Rockets. Just I, I mean, Rockets, it seem to be trending in the right way. And I guess everyone's trending in the right way until you run to the spurs right now because the spurs are just setting everybody course corrected. And you know, Aaron, one of the things with the spurs and, and Greg and I have actually talked about this and I meant to bring for our coffee and sell because I have a Spurs mug. It's my backup mug. I, I meant to I was in a bit of a rush. I was gonna, I was gonna bring my honorary spurs cup here for our podcast. But we've both kind of talked about like, one, it's the proximity that we're at, but two, like this team is so much fun to watch. I think they're our second favorite team. Like, this is like our backup team. And like, you know, I'm, we're pushing for my daughter, his son. It's going to be pretty hard for them not to be Celtics fans. Like, Greg and I are going to have a hard time if they're not. But I think saying the spurs are a pretty good consolation prize and I think this year, I'm curious to know what the, what were the expectations for you and other San Antonio fans going into this year? I know you know, getting into the playoffs was like, yes, we're, we're heading there. But being the number two seed, being a team that has beaten OKC four out of five times, being a team that feels like you can't have any type of realistic title conversation without the spurs being right at the top of that list. Like, how does this compare to the expectations?
- [06:18]
Aaron Blackerby
Start the season blown away by the expectations this year. I mean, there's, there's no one that covers the team that would have expected two seed in the west, especially this deep into the season. You know, when we were at media day earlier this year, you know, we talked to Mitch Johnson, like, what are your expectations for the season? Like, oh, I want to get, you know, better than last year. I was like, okay, well, you know, Victor Wenyama has DVT the team probably, if, if Victor was healthy, probably would have made play in last year after the Dear and Fox trade. But Wemby shut down, then they shut down Dear and, and so there is kind of this. They didn't get that playoff experience, but they were certainly on track to get it last year. And so this year it feels like when I'm zooming out a little bit more that like it has course corrected itself into being like, okay, this is the next level of where they're, they're supposed to be at. But no one, including the alien himself, was predicting two seeded west to be this good. Eight players averaging double figures with the team. It's not just Wimby that's holding things together. And yeah, it's been a really fun team. I mean, I think sometimes for maybe like a casual who tunes in and sees this, you know, the tallest man in Texas basically get the ball and it's like, get Close to the hoop, put it in the hoop. And you so much more than that. And he's understanding his gravity so much better this year. It's. It's becoming. The ball movement is just becoming amazing to watch. And I. I think it's going to be a lot of fun with the Celtics because I tuned in on that Cavs game last night or yesterday afternoon, and I was like, well, they're moving the ball. That Hugo Gonzalez is really fun player to watch. He's like, you know, a good. A little burgeoning Celtics legend, y'. All. Tell me about Baylor Shireman, though. Who is this white boy that the Celtics keep pulling up? Like, how do they keep scouting for all the little white boys out there that can shoot real quick?
- [08:37]
Will
Before Greg answers, this is literally a text we got from a friend yesterday who's like, can you imagine people tuning into the Celtics? They're like, I kind of know Sam Houser. Who the is this white dude? Baylor Shireman,
- [08:49]
Greg Ban
like, Shaq had no. I don't know if you saw this well, but Shaq had no idea. I think. I think that's the reference Aaron's making here, which is great. Baylor Charman's great, dude.
- [08:59]
Aaron Blackerby
He.
- [09:00]
Greg Ban
So one of the things that he does on the court is his energy is unmatched. Like him and Ugo Gonzalez coming off the bench, they're like the energy bunny bash brothers that just come off and they're just grabbing every rebound there. They're looking for put back dunks, they box people out, they shoot threes, they move the ball. Everything that you could want from a role player. The Celtics have two of them. And what's cool about Shireman is he's an older player, right? So he's 25 years old. He came into the league, I think just about to turn 24. And him and Ugo are actually buds, so they're like best friends. And Ugo has been under the wing of Shireman, and they've been competing with each other and motivating each other. And when you understand that relationship between the two of them, it makes a lot of sense when you see them play basketball. But I think both of those guys would look great for the Spurs. Like, I think there's a lot of synergy between the two teams, the organizations. I think the Celtics have tried to mirror themselves after the spurs organization, especially since Brad Stevens has taken over. You know, one of the biggest moves, obviously, trading for Derrick White. But one thing I wanted to ask you, Aaron. So one of my theories on what makes a successful team in the NBA is that you need to have an identity and you need to have a star. Obviously you guys have a star, maybe from the stars. Victor Wembanyama. What is the identity of the San Antonio spurs this year?
- [10:21]
Aaron Blackerby
My, not my words, Mitch Johnson's words. Transition defense is, is where they really are wanting to hang their hat on more than anything. And that's not just with, you know, Victor Wembanyama anchoring down the post. They usually will have him on the weak side and he can essentially take one step anywhere. And you have essentially a sixth defender there. But you got Stefan Castle, who is planning on being the most annoying player in the league for most players. Dylan Harper and Carter Bryant are really coming on as well as far as like jumping passing lanes and, you know, kind of sneaky. Devin Vassell on that perimeter. Defense has also been pretty excellent the last few games. And so the team is really trying to hang its hat on transition defense. And the thing that I keep noticing with them is also the pace that they're starting to play at. They, despite having once again, like a tall guy, they play really fast. They are trying to cross that half court line 23, 22 seconds left in the shot clock. Like, they are pushing things. And so it's been really cool to see the evolution of this team and where it's going, but they're, they are nasty on both ends. And I mean, kind of further to like what happened last night and that's. That Rockets game with them was just like, Greg, I know you'll appreciate this because I've seen you play defense like this too. Just doing little tags. Just little tags. Just like, I'm just gonna touch you a little bit. It's not, it's not a foul, but I'm just gonna put my hands on you and annoy you. And they kept doing that all night to everyone on the Rockets and it really got in their head. So they're. They're gonna hang their hat on defense with that. And yeah, look out. I mean, is Kada. Kada played Wimby pretty good in that first game in Boston, I thought. I'm curious though, if y' all think Boston is going to implement the same strategy they did with Stefan Castle where they just said, beat us from three, young man. And he didn't in that game. But he's trending in the right direction from three. I mean, what are y' all kind of seeing as a way to maybe negate Wimby in the team?
- [12:48]
Greg Ban
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- [12:53]
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- [13:24]
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- [13:53]
Greg Ban
Games Dude, I mean, that's, that's a tough question to ask. A lot of meat on that bone. I, I would imagine there's going to be a lot of, you know, like the Ugo, like the Baylor, those types of defenders on Wemby because that's what we've seen sort of quote unquote work against Wemby historically is you get up underneath them with a little bit of a smaller, quicker guy and you force them into tough twos in contested threes versus just having the ball at the rim. I don't know that Kate is going to be able to hang with Wemby despite previous success. I just don't know that that's sustainable. One thing I do want to come back to, Aaron, before we get into a previous matchup. I mean, the upcoming matchup is. So you mentioned the transition defense and the pace at which they're playing. Right. A lot of that has to do on offense with the Aaron Fox because he's the fastest guard in the league. But one thing I've noticed, I've seen Wemby play in person probably three or four times is in the past. I felt like he wasn't in good enough shape getting up and down the court. He wasn't sprinting back on defense. He was kind of always the trail man, which is okay, that's a role you play on offense. But I did feel like he needed to learn how to play fast and just like take longer strides to take advantage of his 7 foot 5 frame, getting up and down the court. So have you seen a difference in Wemby and his willingness to run the floor?
- [15:13]
Aaron Blackerby
Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a great highlight last night. My co host, Tom Petrini was, you know, tweeting through the game and he said that Wimby looked like a pissed off gazelle. He ran through four Rockets defenders from the top of the key just in a transition offense mode and did a reverse slam on them. So he's really well conditioned. Last night he played 30 minutes. The night of the Clippers game, he was on a stealth minutes restriction. He played under 25 because the night before against the Pistons, he played 40. And so the team overall this year has really kept him in that 30 range right now. But I do think they are starting to kind of spread their wings as they're prepping for playoff basketball to see, okay, we still got to get that conditioning up to where you're effective for closer to 40 minutes. And Yo's boy, Luke Cornett is. He's having some struggles, especially with like five out offense right now on his own defense. So Wemby's been kind of going on there. By the way, I love Luke Cornett, so, you know, very excited to have him in San Antonio.
- [16:25]
Will
Might be. Might be the curse of Magic City coming back to. Coming back to get him. Might be. But I want to ask you about Wemby for a minute because there's, I mean, there's so many things I have. I have to ask about the Spurs. But while we're on Wemby and you mentioned that Clippers game. So that was the night Tatum came back. So Greg and I were watching obviously the Mavericks game. We did a podcast afterwards. When we were done, I went out and I was like, all right, let me, let me, let me check out this Clippers spurs game. And the Clippers are up by like 25 or something at that point. So I was like, you know what, I should probably just go to bed. I was like, let me. I watch an episode of Scrubs. New Scrub show. Pretty good. Just literally the same exact show. But so I watched an episode. Then after that I'll check, see what the score is. And then the spurs were down, I think like 10. And I watched for three minutes and they were up one. Like it was a very quick run for them to get up. And then it was back and forth. Spurs end up winning, I think in overtime, but spurs end up winning that game. And at the end of it, I wanted to ask you about this. Wemby was super, super emotional after this, you know, mid or early March win against the. Against the Clippers. And I tried looking it up. I don't think I was missing any context that anyone has found out or revealed. Like, it was just, he cared that much, which is pretty cool. But I just wanted to know if there was anything else that I was missing because he was practically, like, crying emoting in that post game press conference in a way that you would expect. There was this big life ex. You know, life change that happened, or there was something else to it, but anything I was missing there or. He just gives that much of a.
- [17:57]
Aaron Blackerby
I think he just gives that much of a man. I mean, his. His grandmother did pass away earlier this year. You know, who knows what the grieving process is with that? No one in the press area, like, asked him about that. But I. I think it was just this sense of exhaustion. Like I said, he. He played 40 the night before. He put Jalen Duran in foul trouble by the third quarter. He had five, you know, fouls in that game, and he put up 38 points in that Pistons game. So that was, like, already an exhausting effort. And then the next night, turning around and playing that game. And, you know, I guess for some further context in that game, people were not sure if he was hurt or not because he kept going back to the locker room. He wasn't doing his typical kind of not staying engaged, but he wasn't doing his typical routine of like, okay, I'm gonna go on the bike for a little bit. I'm gonna do my stretch. And he was. His minutes were so different. They were like little bursts rather than like, he's been having these longer times on the floor. And I was at the game and, you know, I'm sitting in the press row and I'm like, well, I mean, last night was awesome. I was at that game, too. That was cool. You know, it's a wash, whatever. And then as they made their comeback, I mean, so in San Antonio right now, and you all see this tomorrow night, there are obviously the Jackals that have had a lot of press about them, but there is a group of French fans that have flown in for the week from. From France. And they were singing the French national anthem to Nicola Batum during warmups. And he, like, acknowledged it and laughed and everything. And so the Jackals were on one side of the court and the French fans were on the other. And there's now, like, these new chants that the Jackals are doing. And they do like, ole, ole. It's so. It turned into this, like, delay on both ends, but it was, like, in rhythm, and it was really magical. And it was the loudest I have heard the Frostbank center be this year. And they were getting loud when they cut the lead down to, like, 19. And then when it got to three, Julian champagne, he said after the game, he's like, we. We couldn't even hear ourselves. Like, we had to figure out, like, just hand communication because, yeah, there was that. And I guess, you know, Will, to. I'm making kind of a long story here, but giving you context, but, you know, in the press conference afterwards, I've never seen Wemby that tired after a game. I've never seen him just. He. He literally said, I was like, I'm glad we didn't go to ot. Like, I had nothing left. And so I think where that emotion came from was like, he was running on empty from the beginning of the game. Because the other question was like, when did you know you retired? He was like, warm ups. The dude still put up 27 points.
- [20:58]
Will
Yeah.
- [20:59]
Aaron Blackerby
Under 25 minutes. Yeah.
- [21:01]
Will
Yeah, man.
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Greg Ban
I mean, there are a couple things I want to hit on there. So. One, Will and I went to the New Year's Eve game a couple years ago, Celtic sp, where the spurs just had nothing for the Celtics. That was the Celtics championship year. It was Porzingis vs. Wemby. There was all this, you know, conversation, and. And we were just like, this spurs team stinks. You know, like, they got. They got Wemby, they got a little bit of potential, but there was just not. Not an identity. Right. And Wemby wasn't the star that he's become. But the atmosphere that you just mentioned with the Jackals and. And the French fans, that's one thing that I really appreciate about Wembanyama and just the passion that he brings to the game, which I think will translate to the city of San Antonio. And fans, you know, they do that. The. The drum clap thing that they do after victories and all that. And when you think of Austin, Texas, right, where. Where we all live right now, and Austin FC and the. The culture of soccer and Europe, you know, Wemby being from France and the European culture of. Of basketball coming into San Antonio, I think that city, in that arena has a real possibility to be the best fan experience throughout the entirety of Wembanyama's run. If they.
- [22:14]
Aaron Blackerby
Hey, no argument here. You know, get out there. Eat a taco. Belen. Taco. Well, I know you're not the biggest fan Crush a brew and start, you know, chanting ghostburgers. Go. Yeah, it's been. It's been pretty fantastic to see the environment. And I think, like, you know, there's been this kind of transition with kind of the culture of San Antonio. This has been a franchise even before they started winning championships. They were always solid. It was always expected to be in the playoffs at the very least. And so the last six years of not being in the playoffs, obviously seeing people drop off, you know, they're like, I got other things to do than cheer for a basketball team. That sucks. And, like, fair enough, man. I'm not here to, like, gatekeep your fandom. You guys have kids now, you know, like. Like, you got other shit to do. And so it's been really cool to see people coming back into the fold. The energy, the buzz that, like, keeps percolating into the stadium now before every game where people are like, oh, this is the. The good years are coming back again. Like, this is. This is fun. And, you know, I. I think, yeah, like, there's so many people now where the last spurs championship was 12 years ago, so some people who were children kind of, like, expected that. And. And so there's been this time where, like, they don't expect that. And so it's cool to, like, I'm 38 now, so I'm definitely feeling like, unk out here. And like, well, look, the steam has been good most of my life then, not most of my life. And I've had that expectation, but I've also had the expectation even going into the season, like, maybe we'll be like, I thought we were going to win 50 wins, 50 games this year, but I still kind of have been like, well, we'll keep coming along, Keep coming along. And now I'm. I'm transitioning more even, especially after that Clippers game where I'm like, oh, maybe we are really watching something special this season. Like, I don't know, like, championship level special quite yet. I think it's like, it's definitely a possibility with the way the west is shaping out. But, like, there is a specialness to this, and it is from those years, Greg, of, like, when y' all went two years ago. Look, the. The highlight from that game was Wimby, you know, doing that layup from the. The free throw line on Derek White. But Devin Vassella was still a part of that team. Keldon Johnson was still a part of that team. Julian Champagne, like, these are dudes who. And I think that's also maybe A part of the emotion of it is, like, there is a core to this team that has been through the mud together, and now they're getting to elevate together. And I think that's further in a league that we kind of see so much player movement and less, like, internal developments, you know, with the exception of the Celtics, because they keep finding Baylor Shireman's of the world, where, like, there's. There's like, a celebration of that internal growth going on. That's really cool to watch.
- [25:26]
Will
Yeah, it's pretty interesting. We. I forget who we were having this conversation with recently on the show, but we were looking at kind of the top teams around the league. And you look at the Thunder, you look at the spurs, you look at the Celtics, you look at the Pistons, and, like, a lot of those teams or those teams specifically, they play a certain style, and a lot of them were kind of built from the ground up or built inside out, right? They were built with a lot of internal picks, like guys that were either drafted or. You know, I think champagne falls into this for you guys. Like someone that you found kind of on the scrap heap and developed. That's where a Cada was. That's where Cornett was for us before. He obviously goes over to San Antonio. Sam Houser, like, all four of those top teams in the NBA right now have a very similar DNA, that they have a very strong culture, and they have a very strong core group of guys that were either built and. Or developed within the system of the team. And it's. I think it's really cool to see those teams be at the top of, you know, what you're looking at right now. Top two in the east, top two in the west. And so I'm curious, Aaron, you mentioned, like, maybe this team does have championship DNA. Like, I feel like it's hard not to think of this team as. As having championship DNA, even though it doesn't necessarily add up. But I think you. You said something earlier that I've been thinking for a while. Is that before Wemby's blood clot last year, and then Fox kind of, you know, he went out. But, like, it was kind of like, the whole point was we wanted to get you.
- [26:47]
Aaron Blackerby
His finger not taped up, looked like this, like.
- [26:50]
Will
So it's like, yeah, we don't need to. We don't need to, like, press anything here. But I think, like, when you think of, like, the Thunder development, right, like, the th. Thunder shut it down, then the Thunder got to a point where they were like, a frisky play in team. Then they all of a sudden had a great record lost in the, you know, second round to the Mavs and they won the championship. Like I think last year, even though you guys technically didn't get the playoff experience you guys were on were likely if Wemby stays healthy, at least getting to the play in probably right. And getting that first taste of experience. So the spurs are ahead of schedule, but I don't think they're actually that ahead of schedule when you factor in the bloodcot and the Fox injury last year. So when you look at, you know, the western commerce and the way it's shaping up, like, what would keep you from feeling like this is a year the spurs can, can come out of the West? Is there a matchup out there? Is there a player? Is there? Tell me about, you know, what would stop the spurs in the West.
- [27:42]
Greg Ban
You can't say injuries.
- [27:44]
Aaron Blackerby
No, no, no, I agree, I agree. Like, just, I'm so sick of like the if we're healthy caveats with things. Like it's just, it's so boring. So, so thank you, Greg, for doing that already. Ahead of time. We'll find out Thursday. But I'm very curious about the mat the Nuggets team specifically.
- [28:05]
Greg Ban
They've been struggling.
- [28:07]
Aaron Blackerby
They've been struggling and Jamal Murray just got hurt and Aaron Gordon's hammy seems to have not fully healed from last season. So I really should just say like the idea of the Nuggets of what they can put together. I'm a little nervous about the Timberwolves as well. They're really coming on right now and they have like the kind of the proper length to bother the Spurs. Those are, those are honestly the two matchups that I'm more concerned about. And even to the playoff experience. We talked about this on the podcast the other day, but there's so much about like, you look at Wimby, you see how skinny he is and it's like, oh, just be physical with the Spurs. And myth busted on that one because people have been physical with the spurs all year and as they've been gaining more notoriety, people are being more physical with the Spurs. And I, I brought it up in that Pistons game. But like when he learned how to weaponize it, I don't think he foul baited, but I think he learned that Katie rip through move that everybody has been annoyed by. And now he's 75 and he's doing that so his arms are just going to flail. And like, you can't help but call A whistle on that. And so he's learning how to weaponize teams that just want to come in and throw arm bars into his back. And he's just like, I can take it. And he's gotten stronger since All Star break. I don't think people maybe fully realize that, but there was this first play in that Phoenix Suns game in Austin where I just, like, saw the way he moved against Mark Williams and I was like, oh, he's gotten stronger. I don't know how. But so they there and Deer and Fox answered it after a press conference where I was like, how does this physicality, like, take two playoffs? And he's like, it's. This is like playoff physicality that we're getting right now. And it's really going to be on the refs at the end of the day to like, keep that contained within the game because y' all have seen it too. There's so many fights breaking out. I think because of the level of physicality that's kind of being let through the league at the moment.
- [30:19]
Greg Ban
Yeah, no, and I think that's a. A good way to transition into the matchup that, that we're. We're going to see tomorrow night with the spurs and the Celtics. Because I think the game plan against the Celtics is very similar is that teams try and get overly physical. We've struggled to some degree with physicality because we hustle, we rebound, and we've been a little gimmicky in that way. I use that word in the last pod that we did. But the way that we've been able to get to the second best record in the east, obviously starts with Jalen Brown, Derek White, Peyton Pritchard, Nimi Keda, Joe Mazula, right? Those. That's been like, the reason why. Then we have all these young wings that if you're not ready for it, if you're not game planning for it. It's like you mentioned the jackals in. In San Antonio. It's like jackals on the court with the Celtics. They are just everywhere. And I think it's going to be really interesting to watch how the spurs fare against the Celtics, how the Celtics fare against the spurs, and the, you know, coming together, the clash of the titans, of these two teams that have dealt with physicality throughout, you know, the, Their. Their growth this season. But also weaponize that, as you mentioned with Wemby, because Jalen Brown had a couple comments recently where he talked about teams being overly physical with him, trying to beat him up. And he looks, you know, he's built out of granite. He's like the strong, one of the strongest dudes in the league. You juxtapose that with Wemby, with Fox, who's a little bit more slight of FR frame. You got some young guys like Harper that are out there. So it is going to be a really interesting matchup to see that. And I did want to go to the chat really quickly because one of our listeners, Rob version one, Shout out. Rob Aaron, earlier you mentioned what are the Celtics going to do against Wemby. And a guy I did not mention who hasn't played since Jason Tatum come back is Jordan Walsh. So Rob said we'll probably see some Jordan Walsh on Wemby, which we saw in the first matchup between those two teams. So he's one of those guys that, you know, I'm sure you have these guys on the spurs that aren't like a key part of your rotation but have a really integral role in specific matchups that you can throw out there. So I think that's a great call out by Rob saying that we might see some Jordan Walsh tomorrow night.
- [32:26]
Aaron Blackerby
Why wouldn't y'? All? I imagine that in that game, with the length that y' all have, that the Celtics will employ a little bit of what I'll call like the Jordan defense of throwing multiple different wings on Wimby. Like, I don't see why, honestly. I mean, Tatum looks so much better yesterday than he did against Dallas. I'm still not sure about his lift, but he looked like he knew how to use his length again on a couple of those fourth quarter layups that he got. Like, why wouldn't you maybe throw Tatum on Wemby for a few seer, like a few times, mix up that look along with Walsh. I mean, even Brown just being kind of like in that. Not that you want those guys by any means to be the Wimby stopper. There is no Wimby stopper, but right where he struggles has been when you're throwing multiple looks at him because then he. He doesn't realize again, like, where to adjust. So that's kind of what I would feel attacking.
- [33:26]
Greg Ban
Well, I think the first thing is foul trouble, right? You don't want to start with Jalen or Jason on him just in case Wemby, as you mentioned, is getting really good at drawing fouls. You wouldn't want to put them in foul trouble. But I think with Jalen and Jason, what makes them special on defense is switchability, versatility that allows you to scheme so that if they get switched on to Wemby, it's not a problem. Right. So I think that's what makes them special as players. But I do think in key moments in the game, you'll probably see that. You'll see Tatum take the challenge, you'll see Jalen take the challenge because they look forward to those moments. But in general, I think you're right. And I think, you know, to Rob's point about Jordan Walsh, we mentioned Shireman, Ugo, Gonzalez, like those types of guys will probably be the ones that cover Wemby. Who would be the, the one guy in your starting lineup that the Celtics would game plan around to let Kada hang off of him because that's what they typically do is they have Kada play off, you know, on a non shooter and then they'll have one of their, one of their wings guard the better players.
- [34:28]
Will
This is the Steph Castle question I think Aaron brought up at the beginning. Like that's, that's, I think likely the guy if we're looking at the starting five.
- [34:35]
Aaron Blackerby
All right, it probably is. But let me, let me drop some, some three point knowledge on y' all about Steph Castle. Steph Castle from three in his last 20 games, late January, the first, the five games of late January, he was at 29%. February before All Star game was five games as well, 33% after All Star, the last five of February, he jumps up to 36% in the last five games in March so far he is shooting 42 from three. He's trending in the right direction. Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, okay, so, so if Dylan Harper and Stefan Castle start hitting threes like I, it's over. I, I would say that's like, you know, so if Kate is going to play off someone, it's definitely going to, I would assume again that, that the Celtics might employ a bit of that same. I thought it was like a playoff strategy like Steph Castle. Let's see if you can shoot from deep. And the other thing from that game, you know what was it January that the spurs played the Celtics in?
- [35:42]
Greg Ban
Sounds right.
- [35:43]
Aaron Blackerby
Boston.
- [35:44]
Greg Ban
Yeah.
- [35:44]
Aaron Blackerby
Yeah. So Steph Castle was sick during that time. That was probably his, his slowest time of the year so far. So I would imagine, because you're not going to hang off Julian Shampeny, he's been shooting lights out. Devin Vassell is a flamethrower right now. The only other person whose his three point percentage has come down was de' Aaron Fox. But de' Aaron, if He had like a center on him. He's going to go in and attack the paint or more to some Spurs. They'll be very upset with this. He'll do a midi at the free throw line which people are not too happy with. Deer and Fox sometimes settling for that. But, but they go in. I don't care.
- [36:23]
Greg Ban
Yeah, I love Fox in the mid range. I think he's, he's dynamite there. So in, in the chat, Rob version one shout out again he says most likely Barnes. But Barnes doesn't start for you guys anymore, right?
- [36:35]
Aaron Blackerby
Barnes does not start kind of this silent. You know, it's not a benching. It's just like he, his, his three point percentage at the beginning of the year he was shooting, you know, plus 40% from corner threes. And Sean Elliott calling him Mr. 100% started dipping and I think when that dipped and Julian Champagne essentially took over in that role because one, he is a more versatile defender and a better three point shooter. Julian Champagne get your, get your get paid this summer by the way. Yeah man, he's, he's awesome. But Barnes also was hurt right now. He has an ankle injury that we'll probably figure out like later today when the injury report comes out if he's available. But he's been out, he's been out since the Pistons game right now. So. And he wasn't even on the bench for that Pistons game. He's returned to like sitting with the team. So I think there was something that came up. But yeah, Barnes is, is coming off the bench now and he's actually, you know, because of that gone back to a little bit more of his typical
- [37:49]
Will
shooting splits from there and with Barnes on the bench. And this makes sense because I've watched the last couple spurs games. What that's done is actually opened up more minutes for your other rookie. Right. Like everyone thinks of Dylan Harper and honestly I'd kind of forgot about Carter Bryant for the last game. What do you guys call him?
- [38:08]
Aaron Blackerby
I'm calling him the Wolverine. Man, that dude.
- [38:11]
Will
Dude, he's great. He. And it's funny because I to bring him up earlier but it felt too early in the podcast when we were talking about like Baylor Shire Shireman and Ugo Gonzalez and Jordan. Like he's in that mold. Like Greg, I, I don't know how much you've watched of Carter Bryant but I kind of, it's double edged sword here. I hope he plays, but I also hope he doesn't. I think he could be a problem for the Celtics because he's gonna be a guy.
- [38:32]
Greg Ban
You know what's funny, Will, is you. You mentioned Carter Bryant. He actually reminds me of, like, early Keldon Johnson. I remember the. The first time seeing Keldon Johnson guard Jalen Brown, where I was just like, oh, my God, Jalen can't move this dude.
- [38:45]
Will
He's like, this is how Kelvin made Team USA Kel the Dustin gold medal because he locked up the Jays.
- [38:50]
Greg Ban
Yeah.
- [38:53]
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- [39:54]
Aaron Blackerby
Dude, Carter Bryant. You know, man, like, the Houston Rockets have had this, like, theme with so many of their players where it's just like, we just draft athletes, you know, like, like, I've seen, you know, Eamon Thompson in person, just walking, and I was like, that's the most athletic person I've ever seen. I can't explain it other than watching him walk. So, like, y' all understand, like, you know, when you walk past the player and you're just like, oh, you're, you're.
- [40:21]
Greg Ban
Yeah, don't. Don't guard me, bro. Please don't guard me. Like, if I get the ball, I'm moving it. Yeah.
- [40:25]
Aaron Blackerby
Yeah. And, like, Carter Bryant is, like, in that mold. And so the fact that he's a spur is just kind of like, like, it still kind of blows my mind because you need players like this on a team, you know, in 20, 26 in the NBA. But it's like, kind of been. The spurs have always just, like, gone full, like, no, no, no. If you know how to make the great pass, like, that's who we do. And Carter Bryant can Do that as well. But he is really coming on with, with kind of Barnes being hurt right now. And once again, I'll go back to the Pistons game and I'll be curious to see what they do on, on Pritchard here. But they'll be like, okay, Stefan Castle, pick up Cade. 94ft. Stefan, you're a little tired. Dylan Harper, you go pick him up. 94ft. Okay, Kate is really annoyed with Dylan Harper. Carter, Bryant, get your ass out there. You have six fouls. You're going to play eight minutes. You're going to use all of them. And he was also the one who sparked that comeback against the Clippers game. Dude had five points and ended the game leading the Spurs. And plus minus at 11, like impactful.
- [41:30]
Greg Ban
And he got a shout out from Wemby after the game too. It's just like he's like, that was the most impactful five point performance. Yeah, but you know, Aaron, we're running low on time here. I know we all got a heart out, but.
- [41:42]
Will
No, no, no, I'm not.
- [41:43]
Greg Ban
I, I'm actually giving you the floor to ask us some questions. Right. So you've done a great job answering our question. So what questions do you have for us ahead of this matchup?
- [41:52]
Aaron Blackerby
So I mean, talking about physicality, one thing that keeps popping out about the Celtics for me just on statmuse was seeing their lack of free throw attempts and free throw percentage. Like this seems like, like what is up with that? Is this Joe Missoula too many three balls? Like, like where, where are the free throws coming from?
- [42:13]
Greg Ban
That's a great question. So one Tatum, you know, historically gets the line the most on the team. He hasn't been there all season. Jalen Brown gets a really tough whistle. I think you can make the argument that he plays so physically and that he creates so much contact that the refs just like allow both sides to get away with it. Like you will tomorrow. You will get frustrated three to four times and scream for a push off on Jalen Brown because he's so goddamn physical. But teams just grab him. He holds people's jerseys as he's driving. He'll pull on people's shorts and then he'll complain and it's like, yeah, but you can't really complain because you're doing a lot of that initiating a contact. But what the Celtics have done this year is they don't get to the, they don't get to the hoop, they don't get to the free throw line. But they live in the mid range and they take great shots from three. Like Joe Missoula would rather limit turnovers, which is, you know, Joe Missoula does not like drives to the rim too frequently because oftentimes they mess up your transition defense or they lead to turnovers. Right. So he would prefer that the team play a more efficient style where they just look for the matchups and look for two on one situations. So they limit their turnovers and they get a shot every single time down the court. So with the spurs, what I, what I would expect them to do. You mentioned the 94ft of pressure. We've seen that with some teams where if they can speed the Celtics up, they can turn them over because the Celtics are going to be as methodical as any team, especially with Jason Tatum coming back. Like if you watch the Cavs game yesterday, everything they did on offense was methodical. Right. They'll move the ball and they'll have a nice snap to their actions. But every, everything, you know, Tatum walks the ball up the court. They get into their double drag actions, they get into their Spain actions, they get into, you know, wide pin down zoom actions, all the stuff that they do. But for the most part, if you can pressure the Celtics, and you mentioned Pritchard, if you can pressure Peyton Pritchard and lock him down with the second unit, you're going to see the Celtics struggle against, against the spurs tomorrow if you can execute that game plan.
- [44:13]
Will
Yeah, I think Pritchard's actually a key guy. And like everything Greg said is like the perfect explanation for why the Celtics don't get to the free throw line. And you know, now with Tatum back, back, we'll see that number tick up a little bit, right? Because now you'll have two guys that, that can kind of, you know, get to the lane and do so efficiently. But I think Pritchard is going to be key because we've seen Pritchard in the second half of the season. He's, he's had a lot of peaks and valleys. He's had some games where he's dropped 30 points against the Lakers and he's putting Jared Vanderbilt on the deck and you know, hitting step back threes. And then we've seen him get literally shut out twice. And so we've seen. And it's, it's been a lot of the things Greg mentioned of like whether it's its size and versatility and he's found ways to overcome it, but when it's at like that top level athleticism and length, which is something I think you guys are going to be able to possess. That's where there could be an issue. Now, we haven't necessarily seen that with Tatum back in the mix. And so one of the things that Tatum does for the Celtics is he course corrects everybody's position within the hierarchy because this season, everyone except for Jaylen Brown has essentially been knocked one level up as to where there's supposed to be. Derrick White has to be the number two guy, and his inefficiency has plummeted from shooting the ball. Does everything else amazing because he's Derek White. Peyton Pritchard has leveled up his scoring, and now we're starting to see that, you know, teams can game plan a little bit more for him when it's just the three of them, because they're the only three guys that were handling the ball before Tatum came back.
- [45:35]
Greg Ban
But will just real, real quick to jump in yesterday. Aaron, you probably saw this. Peyton Pritchard was closing the game with them, and he made a whole bunch of great shots because now it's the fourth best defender is guarding Peyton Pritchard versus, like the second best or first best defender.
- [45:51]
Aaron Blackerby
Yeah. So Tatum, you're saying kind of. I mean, I'm just so curious how he is going to continue to fit in, you know, especially this far in the season of, like, to your point? Well, like, positions are kind of locked in. Like, is Tatum now trying, or do y' all think he needs to go back to being the two, like the number two score with like, Jalen Brown doing this, or is he just going to be like the most advanced, like, role player, you know, quote unquote, like this season with the Celtics short answers.
- [46:21]
Will
I don't think it matters. Like, I think it's just going to be ebb and flow of, like, game to game. Like, I. The way that the Celtics are set up. Like, I think we've seen this already from Jalen Brown just in the first two games, Tatum's back. Like, there's so much less pressure that. That. That Jalen can now be more efficient right lane. Jalen's been very efficient at a higher volume, which has been one of his biggest stories. But we've seen it start to. To kind of weigh on him. Right. And so I think with Tatum back out there, like, you're gonna see a little bit of an ebb and flow. Like, I think for at least a while, it's still going to be, you know, Jalen the leading scorer most nights. But the way Tatum looks by the time we get to the end of the season, beginning of the postseason. Like, I don't think it's going to be start to feel surprising if, if it's kind of, you know, some nights Jason Tatum has 30 points. Sometimes Jason Tatum has 28 points and leads the team. And sometimes it's Jalen Brown. Like I think it's going to be kind of an ebb and flow as to what the game dictates. And that's kind of what this team has done all year. But Jalen Brown has obviously had to lead the way from a points per game production standpoint.
- [47:20]
Greg Ban
Yeah. And to jump in like Tatum, there's a misconception about the type of player that he is. Like he kind of already is a role player. Like he just does everything so well for the team. There's nothing. Will always talks about this. His superpower being his, his versatility and the fact that he's above average at literally everything. He's like, there's not one thing, there's not one hole in that dude's game. So what you've probably already seen and you'll see tomorrow is that Tatum is a great screen setter. They'll, they'll use him in a lot of actions to create mismatches. There's this one play yesterday where he ended up screening to get Sam Merrill on him. They, they kind of deny that. So they did like an empty side pick and roll. They deny it. Sam Merrill's fronting Jason Tatum. Nemi keda flashes to the top. They hit kata back door. Tatum gets to the, Tatum gets to the line. Like he plays off the ball really well. He's so physical. He's such a good rebounder that a lot of what he already does is like, just because he's Jason Tatum, you don't think of it as what a role player does, but it is actually what a role player does. So I, I, I don't think there's going to be an issue. And what you've already seen with Jaylen Brown, he's for nine years has figured out when he has to pick his spots.
- [48:34]
Will
Right.
- [48:34]
Greg Ban
And in the game yesterday against the Cavs, he dominated the third quarter and he was the guy that led the Celtics to that victory yesterday because there's just more room on the court now for him to operate. And a lot of the mid range opportunities that he was getting earlier in the season that were efficient and were uncontested started to become contested because they would send help from the wings and people would pinch down and he wouldn't quite know where to get that shot. But when you surround him with shooters, when there's a Jason Tatum on the court, to. To have, you know, the best defender on Jason Tatum, second best defenders now on Jalen Brown. You can't guard Jaylen Brown with the second best defender on a court.
- [49:09]
Aaron Blackerby
Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be curious how the spurs guard like Tatum tomorrow. Is he going to be the guy that we will essentially say, you get yours? Because I know we keep bringing up the fan favorites of Gonzalez and Shireman, but the spurs have been. They will leave sometimes those corner threes open, and it looks like those guys can eat from there, more so than the Thunder players. So I'll be curious if to give up to make sure that they're not killed from three, that they'll give Tatum a little bit more of like, let's see what you got. You know, compared. I think.
- [49:46]
Greg Ban
I think that's a really good strategy with him coming back because teams have been treating Jason Tatum like he is Jason Tatum and sending two, three guys and into help positions. But as he's working his way back, I think that's a great strategy. Just be like, go ahead, man. See if you can score. See if you have the lift that you referenced at the beginning of the podcast to actually get to the rim and get those shots off. And so far, it looks like he has it enough to, you know, score one on one against somebody. But, you know, if you have a Steph Castle on him who's super physical, like, is he going to be able to still finish through that type of contest?
- [50:17]
Aaron Blackerby
Act well, get through Steph Castle. And then you got Wimy waiting for you, you know, there and then.
- [50:22]
Will
Or. Or everything. Wemby's everywhere. It's insane.
- [50:26]
Aaron Blackerby
It. It's almost like it's not boring to talk about how great Wimy is, because he does something at least every game where you're just like, well, I've never seen that done before, and I've watched every game that this guy has played, and it's still happening in the third.
- [50:39]
Will
On that note, last question for you here, then we'll get you out of here and wrap this up here. How many no jump dunks do you think Wemby has had? Because I feel like every once in a while I just have. And technically, maybe he's jumping, but it looks like he doesn't jump on some of these alley oops or put backs that he has. If you had to estimate how many no jump dunks do you think Wendy
- [50:57]
Aaron Blackerby
has just the season I Mean, I think it's lower than you think because like he's still kind of, he's not always jumping up. He's like jumping forward, you know, because of his length. I, I put it under 10, but he's his.
- [51:12]
Will
First of all, it's an optical.
- [51:15]
Greg Ban
I think what Aaron's saying is it's an optical illusion. Right. And you kind of, you kind of reference that will. But you know, with Wemby, the last thing I'll say about him, early on in his career, he talked about playing against Kevin Durant. And there was this very specific thing that Kevin Durant does off the ball on the catch that he wanted to learn, which was basically jumping in the air so that when you land you can kind of rip through either side and it makes you quicker. And it seems like I've been watching like every. My favorite thing to do the day after a Spurs game is just go NBA.com watch all Wemby's blocks and all of his shot made shots and it seems like they're just putting him in all these different situations that allow him to be the 7 foot 5 Kevin Durant. And another thing that he's doing really well now is when he gets to his left hand, he does that thing. Westbrook was great at this. Like when, when he was on the Thunder is you jump off two feet and you expect him to go up with his right hand and try and flush it. But what he does is he just kind of leans with his left hand and all of a sudden he's at the backboard. And it's just like such a unique thing that only what Victor Wembanyama at
- [52:19]
Aaron Blackerby
75 can do the, the length of him and his left hand, I'd say this year is probably underrated. So that's a great observation, Greg, of just like what, how his offensive game is developed. And like you talk about middies, he's like the midi king for the spurs. Like, like face up with Jalen Brown in his face. He's like, okay, cool. Like this is a free time block
- [52:40]
Will
that shot, that release point. Yeah,
- [52:44]
Aaron Blackerby
yeah, man. It's, it's such a fun season and I'm, I'm stoked about tomorrow night. I think it's going to be just such a, another playoff like atmosphere for both teams to really give a barometer of where they're at. I don't. We are the winners as observers of the game. Game, I think tomorrow. So I'm stoked about it and I appreciate you guys having me on today.
- [53:07]
Will
Hell yeah. Man, that's well put. Celtics, spurs tomorrow night. I believe it is a national TV game. I think they moved it into the national TV spot. So gonna have the Jackals against the adjacent Tatum return tour. It's gonna be a showdown. I can't wait. Number two in the east, number two in the west. Greg and I will be there in person. We're excited to check it out. We will report back after that game, everything that we've seen, the atmosphere, how Tatum looks, how the team's moving. We'll have our own insights for you. Aaron. This has been long overdue, man. Appreciate you taking some time to join us here. If you guys are looking for spurs side of things, Silver and Black Coffee hour highly recommend that you check it out. You can see at the bottom there for those of you watching on YouTube, but that's going to do it for this episode here of coffee and Celtics. Appreciate everybody locking in with us. We'll be back later this week after we have our live observations from Celtics spurs in San Antonio tomorrow night. Everybody enjoy your week and we'll catch you guys later.
- [54:00]
Aaron Blackerby
Peace.
- [54:09]
Greg Ban
Until I hit the floor
- [54:12]
Aaron Blackerby
Every time I hit this high it's you I find it don't take much no more until I'm at your dark.
- [54:42]
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