← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Drake Maye is NEXT, Alex Pereira is BACK + Celtics Preseason Preview and NBA X Factors
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- [00:00]
A
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- [02:19]
B
Let's lock in.
- [02:40]
A
What up, what up, what up? Welcome into another edition of Green with Envy, the final off season edition of Green with Envy. Basketball on the court. Actual basketball, not just guys behind a mic like us with Internet connections. It's real live basketball. Coming up Wednesday night, Celtics and Grizzlies get underway here. We will have coverage for you following that game. As always, this is your boy, Will. We're checking in. How you doing? How you living? Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Menekes. Greg, real basketball is around the corner. Very excited.
- [03:20]
B
I can't wait, man. This is the most excited I've been for a Celtics preseason game probably since two years ago. The first time getting a chance to, to take a look at Drew Holiday and kp. Right. Because last year, as we've talked about many times, it was just the same old, same old. Right. So now we get a fresh chance to see the new look. Warp spots, speed Celtics. Jalen Brown is the number one option. Derrick White getting his first all star campaign going. And then Peyton Pritchard. We'll see what he can do. As expectedly, the starting point guard in game one.
- [03:51]
A
Yeah, see if he taped up that bullet wound that he's got in his neck from practice. That if you just see the gas that he had, that thing was extreme. We'll, we'll touch on them, we'll touch on some of the comments. Jalen Brown getting into his streamer bag. We'll talk a little bit about that as we set the scene. And at the end of the podcast, we'll look outside of the Celtics here as we continue to look around the NBA and set up this brand new NBA season. But Greg, as rejuvenated Boston sports fans, we had an interesting week leading up to what's going to be us, you know, diving head first into almost all things Celtics. Here we said goodbye to our beloved Red Sox after a week long journey of being Red Sox fans. And we said hello to maybe, just maybe the next big thing in Drake May, who had a national coming out party, which is funny to say in a game where he doesn't throw a touchdown, but he just made so many amazing plays that it really was a coming out party. Taking down one of the, taking down the MVP of the league the year before in Buffalo. Coming out party for Drake May. Do you want to, do you have any quick obituary thoughts for this for the Red Sox? You want to just dive into the glory that was Drake May last night?
- [05:03]
B
Yeah, I think we've missed the window on the Red Sox. So let's just go to Drake. Man. What it is, man. He, he's good. Drake May is good. I didn't realize that last year the Patriots didn't have any prime time games. Right. So we didn't get any prime time Patriots games last year. This was the first one in over a year. And to see Drake May in Buffalo after an ugly first half, right, he was still making some plays, but for the most part, he did most of his work in that second half.
- [05:30]
A
And.
- [05:31]
B
And, man, Drake May on the move, rolling to his right, Stefan Diggs, just like freelancing, developing a chemistry. We haven't seen a chemistry like that since Brady and Edelman, right? Like, that's the level that they were getting to Brady and Moss, Grady Brady and Gronk, Brady and Welker. Like Brady and insert, you know, wide.
- [05:53]
A
Receiver or Taron Branch, David Givens, Jabar Gaffney, right?
- [05:58]
B
So it's like, what is this next generation of Patriots football going to look like? We were so excited at the beginning of the season, just bringing back Mike Vrabel, bringing back Josh McDaniels and having some, you know, real football to watch this year. And it all really depended on whether or not Drake May was going to be that guy, right? We didn't know. We saw glimpses of it last year, but he had multiple concussions last year. We were concerned about his.
- [06:24]
A
His.
- [06:24]
B
His inability to just get down and slide. But, man, Drake May, after watching last night, had me believing. I even texted to our fantasy group thread right before the last drive, I said, Drake May 1st Legacy Drive incoming. Because I was that confident that he was going to get it done. I hadn't felt like that since Brady, man.
- [06:44]
A
Yeah, it was. It was a feeling we haven't had in a long time. And I think it also goes towards having just like Stefan Diggs making plays. I think that's also a part of this where even. And I never really bought into any of the Mac Jones brief hype period that there was. I was just like, ah, we'll see. Like, and I just never believed it.
- [07:04]
B
And.
- [07:04]
A
But. But even outside of that, to your point, I think when you talk about the chemistry, haven't seen that. Like, that's. That's brand new. Like, that feels so. It feels brand new, right? Like, it feels like getting a new car, that new car smell. Like, it's. It's just so different. And having that Drake May feel like we got a guy. Like we got a guy in the rest of the season. It's just about seeing where he goes. Like, I still. Like, I'm still not delusional. There's no Super Bowl, I don't think coming or anything like that. But seeing the throws he made where, you know, there's three throws that I really think about, there's obviously the one, him on the run deep to Stefan Diggs inside. I think around the five yard line. Just like that's the, that's Mac Jones never had that. Right. Like that was. You never would have seen something. Although Mac Jones played well the other night. But not the point that throw. You see the tight window to Kaisha. Is it Keisha Booty I think is how you say it. The tight window to him, you know, down the stretch, right in between two defenders. Yeah.
- [08:01]
B
Going against that cover too. Having to rip that ball in there against the COVID too.
- [08:04]
A
Absolutely. And then of course you know the, the top one is that you've seen everywhere is him being dragged down by a 300 plus pound defensive lineman on the run, falling away, makes the throw to Stefan Diggs. Like it feels so good to know that in our group chat we have jets fans that are just reeling again. Like that's just, that's a good feeling. It's a good feeling because you know, you see these teams around you and this happens in the NBA too where we can, we could list off teams in all these sports that just feel like they've been in purgatory our entire lives. Right. And we were so blessed for that 20 year stretch. But as we've said before, you and I are not immune to like we grew up in the era of like the Pats are nobodies, the Red Sox choke all the time, the 90s Celtics, like that's where we were, were born and bred. And yes, since you and I have been you know, 13ish years old, we've been blessed, no doubt. So it's definitely waited out in the aggregate in our favor. But like we know what it looks like, we're not unfamiliar with the symptoms and so feeling like were not going back there because of what Drake May showed, that was a really nice feeling to wake up to this morning for sure.
- [09:23]
B
And just when you look at the, the landscape of, of Boston sports, for those of you that may be listening for the first time, Will and I know nothing about hockey or the Bruins. So we're not going to be talking about the Bruins.
- [09:33]
A
Ever tell like they don't exist.
- [09:35]
B
Yeah, but maybe one day we'll get into the Bruins somehow.
- [09:38]
A
I don't know.
- [09:38]
B
There, there needs to be like a Mac, not Mac Jones, a Drake May level player, a Roman Anthony level player, Jason Tatum level player to like really care about.
- [09:49]
A
Even then I, I don't know that I would still care about the bridge. It's just straight.
- [09:54]
B
I might, I don't. I was a hockey fan when I was a kid because I liked Joe Thornton, I liked Cam Neely. You know, I liked Ray Bork, so I. I was big Anson Carter guy.
- [10:04]
A
Only black guy out there.
- [10:06]
B
Yeah, you like the Anson Carter for obvious reasons. And I liked the. The Avalanche. Like, I was a big Avalanche friend. Like when Ray Bor went to the Avalanche, I remember watching the Stanley cup and being really excited for him. So, like, I have hockey in me, played hockey. So, like, we grew up in a hockey town.
- [10:22]
A
I was right. Your dad played hockey. And he was really good at hockey too, actually.
- [10:25]
B
Yeah, he was. He was pretty nasty. So, like, it's. It's in my blood somewhere. I can't skate. But I do know that, you know, Alex works for the, the Capitals now. Our producer, Alex Gonzalez is now the social media guy for. For the Capitals. And he's talking about, you know, seeing Ovechkin up close. And if there's an Alexander Oetkin type player, like, on the Bruins, at some point, maybe that's gonna get me to tune in. Kind of like, oh, Messi is now in mls. Like, maybe I'll watch more soccer like that type. That's what I'm saying. Like, there needs to be that level. I digress though. The point.
- [10:58]
A
How much messy have you watched playing soccer?
- [11:01]
B
I don't know where to watch it.
- [11:04]
A
I mean, I. Yeah, I think it's on Apple tv, but I don't know either. I'm just. Yeah, he's in the mls, so I'm just asking.
- [11:09]
B
Right, that's what I'm saying. But, like, if. If it was more available to me, like, the Bruins could be available to me pretty easily. But we are very blessed right now to have these young players. Especially, as, you know, we. We get older, we're in our mid-30s now. We each have children. Like, as James gets older, I want him to grow up just like, seeing awesome sports and being able to root for amazing players. Like, we were able to. Like, we're so fortunate to have watched arguably the greatest pitcher of his generation in Pedro Martinez, right? The greatest clutch hitter of. Of maybe all time in David Ortiz, right? We saw Nomar Garcia par at his. At his peak. We saw Tom Brady the Goat at his peak. We saw Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, like, the hits just go on and on. Rob Gronkowski, one of the best tight ends of all time. We've been so blessed to see some of the greatest sports figures, not just in Boston, in all of sports, in. And I want that to. For the next generation, especially for James. I want him to see some really cool shit growing Up.
- [12:16]
A
Yeah. I mean, and we're in a time frame where that. That could be the case. Right. Like, whether that's, you know, Drake May, whether that's Christian Gonzalez, who could be his Ty Law, whether that's, you know, Roman Anthony. What we see with Garrett Crochet, obviously, you know, with Tatum and Brown, they're. They're already there. It's. How much longer are they going to be, you know, in that window and then see what comes after that? So, you know, you know, it's a. It's a spoil of riches, right? Like, it just really is. Even though, you know, the. The Pats haven't been good for the last five, six years, seven years, whatever. Whatever it's been since, you know, since Brady left, like, it's been a downturn. But if. If Drake May, and it seems to be based off last night, is that dude feels like the state of the Boston sports that we care about are in pretty good shape.
- [13:02]
B
I gotta bring on Alex because, one, I gotta ask him his thoughts on Drake May because he put some stats into the chat that I'll let him. Let him kind of cook on a little bit. And then I also want to get his thoughts on hockey in general, just because he might. He probably knows more about hockey than us.
- [13:18]
C
I think Drake May is awesome. I thought yesterday he was amazing, especially in that second half. The first quarter was a little up and down. Not really sure why we keep giving the ball to Randre Stevenson, but that's another subject. He had two touchdowns in the second half, so I'll let it slide. But, yeah, pretty much a flawless second half from Drake May. He was making great passes, like, throughout the entire game. Like that final drive, he had two passes, but that completely won the game. He had Booty down the sideline right on that corner in that cover two zone. He found the pocket and then he had that incredible pass when he got to connect with Stefan Diggs. It's awesome. I feel like, yeah, we didn't have any.
- [13:58]
A
Can I ask you a question here? It's going to make me and Greg feel really old. What's your. What's your first, like, actual viewing memory of Tom Brady? Like, what's. Like, what if someone had to ask you, like, what's the. What's the first thing that you remember watching of? Like, like, let's go live. Let's go. Let's. Let's go live. I'm thinking of it from, like, James's perspective. Greg, like, when's gonna be the first time he's like, oh, like Jay. Like Jay, like the first time you remember seeing, you know, move on or like Nomar a little bit? Like, like enough to like, fully understand what's happening live. What do you think that is for you with. With Tom Brady, Alex?
- [14:38]
C
It probably was either. I went to that. It's like 2011 Patriots, Redskins game where Gronk had like two, like 150 yards and was like, absolutely insane. I think I was like 8. But before that, the. My first ever memory of Tom Brady, my dad actually had the disc of the 2001 Super bowl and I wanted to watch football and like, March or May, and there was no football on. So I think I've watched that tape maybe seven times. So my first active memory is that Troy Brown touchdown in the super bowl where he, like, he turns around. It's a crazy catch. And yeah, I love that. I love that disc. I've watched it so much and I love, especially that super bowl where John Madden's like, I think they should just knee it and go to overtime. And then Tom just. He leads them down the field and it's.
- [15:27]
A
Yeah. Thanks. Beginning. Troy Brown, Jermaine Wiggins down the field. Yeah. Greg, does that make you feel old right there? That Alex's first memory was after we had watched the decade of Tom Brady.
- [15:38]
B
Man, I feel old every single day, dude. I feel old every single day. When the ACL is going on right now here in Austin, Alex, it's like a big music festival that happens every year. And, you know, some of the younger people in my office and on my team were on Friday going acl, and I was like, there's. You couldn't pay me enough money to go to ACL this year. Like, I'm not sitting in 95 degree heat waiting 7 hours drinking red wine. Apparently they have better drinks now. Will, like, when. When we first started going to acl.
- [16:09]
A
I went last year for wine.
- [16:12]
B
Yeah. Cool.
- [16:12]
A
Yeah. And they had. This was the biggest. Just real quick. This was the biggest mind, I guess, was at one point they had cartons of water. But, like, think of like the school carton that you would get milk in. But it was water. My. My brain couldn't handle it. Between that and the heat stroke, I. I just couldn't do it.
- [16:32]
B
Alex, thoughts on. Do the Bruins currently have someone that is, like, a really exciting young guy that I should. Okay.
- [16:41]
C
I actually have no idea. I mean, I'm gonna see it on Wednesday until we play, so I'll let you know after that. I'm not really sure the only guys I know. Are the Capitals guys okay? I feel pretty good about them. Although I saw the projection and the. Projected to make the playoffs, but finish sixth in their division. I'm not really sure how that works, but, like, I guess we'll find out.
- [17:03]
A
Apparently, their division.
- [17:05]
B
Yeah, yeah, we got some. We got some homework. Alex, did you. Did you by any chance, because will never watches UFC. Did you watch UFC 320 this weekend?
- [17:14]
C
No, but I did see Pereira, like, dominated whoever he was fighting. I saw people kept, like, saying that Chama was over, and then he, like, won in 90 seconds or something like that. So I saw that. But no, I did not tune in.
- [17:27]
B
It was one of the greatest. So will Alex Pereira, your Brazilian brethren, he's like the light heavyweight champion. He just called out John Jones. He wants a Jon Jones super fight, which should be awesome because Jon Jones is like the all time goat at light heavyweight and pretty much in the sport. And a lot of people are saying that Alex Pereira now is like, if he. If he could beat Jon Jones, he might be like the goat of the sport.
- [17:50]
A
Jon Jones still fighting. Isn't he kind of old now?
- [17:53]
B
They're the same age.
- [17:55]
A
The same age. Okay.
- [17:56]
B
Yeah, he. He just. He was the youngest heavyweight champ, light heavyweight champ, ever. So, like, okay, he just been around forever. But yeah, with. With Pereira. So he was fighting this guy, Magomed Ankalaya from Dagestan, from Russia, who, like, doesn't really talk, but his manager talks for him. And this is one thing that Pereira does where he, like, doesn't speak a word of English, so he just says Chama. Like, that's his phrase. It just means, like, let's go. Like, let's go, basically. So anytime people ask him a question, he just goes, uncle. Live in the press conference said Chama is dead. And Pereira just, like, he gets, like, really upset and he just goes, chama. And then the whole crowd starts chanting, chama. It's so good. And he's just this, like, stoic dude that has, like, indigenous blood in. In Brazil. He dresses up in his ancestral war paint anytime that he. He has a press conference and. But it was. It was bananas. Came out, knocked the dude out in 90 seconds, 12 to 6. Elbows just raining down on him, hit him kidney shots. It was good, man. UFC is about to get good, guys. It's about to get good.
- [19:11]
A
Yeah, I got nothing, Alex.
- [19:12]
C
Yeah, I got nothing, too.
- [19:14]
B
I don't understand. Go ahead.
- [19:16]
C
Isn't retired, isn't he retired? Didn't he, like, he ducked to that.
- [19:19]
B
Other guy, whoever he like, yeah, so he came back. He was retired for a couple years. He came back. Yeah, fought this guy Sorrel gone. And then avoided Tom Aspinall, who's the current heavyweight champ. Yeah, this dude from, from Britain. And then he retired. Like actually retired. And then like a week later got buyer's remorse or seller's remorse and was like, no, I'm back in the pool because I want to fight another White House card. But we'll see.
- [19:50]
D
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- [21:05]
A
For 140 years, MultiCare has been in Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@ multicare.org yeah, yeah, white House card. Can't miss that one. That's gonna be.
- [21:27]
C
It's gonna be here. Maybe I'll see it from my house.
- [21:29]
B
Maybe. All right, Alex, thanks for hopping on, buddy.
- [21:33]
A
We'll have to see. Appreciate it, Alex. Yeah. So, lot going on here, Greg. Let's talk a little basketball. Let's. Let's transition us here to the Celtics and Grizzlies coming up. So as we mentioned last podcast where we won't actually talk about basketball's hitting the hardwood, but because Wednesday night, Celtics, Grizzlies, Grizzlies not gonna be at full strength. John Moran already hurt. Jaren Jackson Jr. Already hurt. I think I saw someone else. Zach. Edie Also already hurt for the Grizzlies. So the Grizzlies not off to a hot start for their season, likely without all three of those guys. Not just for the preseason, but to start the season. So let's take a look at the Celtics here. Greg. We've been seeing a lot of clips coming out from practice. We've been seeing Jaylen Brown on his Twitch stream, kind of giving some insights. Derrick White's got his podcast, so the Celtics are giving us a lot to kind of feed on here leading up to this. I would say the number one thing that we keep hearing about, we've already talked about this a little bit, but is this tempo is just tempo and playing more physical. Basically, it feels like the Celtics looked at that Pacers, Thunder, finals, and we're like, okay, this is what we need to do. Pacers have the pace, the. The pace of play. Thunder, they're very physical on defense. That's what we're going for this year, and I'm excited to see it. But it feels like those are the two themes that I've continually heard across the majority of sound bites so far.
- [22:56]
B
Yeah, it's great. You know, we first heard it with the. The warp speed idea from Xavier Tillman. Jalen Brown on his stream said, you know, all we're doing is running. He said he feels like he's not a basketball player. He feels like he's a track athlete. Right. And that's what Joe Missoula is, you know, seemingly doing with the team. It's just they're running sprints, they're running drills that have them running full court, full speed, and it's just great to. To see how quickly they're recognizing the strengths of the roster and how they need to adjust their playstyle not only to fit the needs of the roster, but to fit, as you alluded to how the best teams in the league are currently playing. Right. And if you know Joe Missoula, he's not going to back away from, like, a firefighter, you know, so Joe Missoula could. You could look at the guys like the Thunder and the Pacers and be like, okay, we need to play the antithesis of this and maybe to slow the. Slow the game down, get them out of there. And he's like, you know what? No, we're gonna. We're gonna fight fire with fire, and we're gonna play at warp speed. We're going to take advantage of Jaylen Brown being one of the best transition players every single year in his career. We're going to take advantage of Peyton Pritchard being one of the fastest end to end guys. We're going to take advantage of Derrick White who is also just thrives in transition and I think could actually do even better than he's already done in a high speed up tempo offense because he's kind of just had to do what he has to do playing around Jason Tatum who likes to play the game at a more methodical pace. So I with those three guys then you add in Anthony Simons, you add in you know, guys like Sam Houser who can get loose in transition, you add in guys like Chris Boucher who thrives in an up tempo style and there's, there's a world in which the Celtics could just be maybe not record wise, one of the, the best teams in the east, but one of the best watches like NBA league pass darling type team. Which sounds weird for a team that's been a contender for the past decade.
- [24:52]
A
Yeah, team that goes to the conference finals and the finals every single season. But you're right, I mean that was kind of Pacers Kings two years ago. Right. Like that was kind of the era they felt it was the Thunder. Yeah, the Thunder. Yeah, the Thunder also fell into that as well. And so yeah, that is interesting to think about the Celtics living in that, in that type of space. They're still going to get some national TV games so they're still going to be a little bit more, more prominent. But as we're coming up to this game, you know, it's funny, I hadn't really thought too much about Sam Houser in this, but as soon as you said that, you know, I think it was, you know, he did a little bit last year where he started expanding his range in transition. And so thinking of that like now and it's kind of just been gone from my mind. I'm. I'm actually pretty excited to see that now guessing like these are the little things that are going to start as we watch like oh, I forgot that this could be something more and like we think about, you know, ways that made the Celtics so, so dangerous with advantage basketball, which is really what Missoula ball is advantage basketball is. Porzingis shot threes from five six feet behind the three point line. Right. So now if you got Sam sprinting full speed into those five, you know, put 3.3 point shots behind the arc, like that's another weapon. Right. Like that's something that's going to develop that that can also translate to when the Celtics get a guy like Jason Tatum back. So I think it's going to be little things like that that are going to be really fun to watch. Do you have anything else in particular or player in particular that for the first game? And who knows how Missoula is going to run, you know, the substitution patterns. If what I can remember is that he typically kind of acts, actually plays like a lot of the real guys for the majority of these preseason games. So I'm expecting to, you know, not necessarily be like some teams where you go out there and it's like, oh, this is basically Summer League 2.0. Like, Missoula tends to play the guy. So is there any one individual or one aspect that you really get your eye out on for. For Wednesday night?
- [26:58]
B
I would say I'm just happy to. To watch basketball again. You know, I. I took a real summer off. I didn't really much NBA podcast content. I took some time off. I just, you know, enjoyed life and I'm excited to getting back to enjoying basketball because it really started to feel like a job last year. Watching the Celtics. It, like, as. As great as it was to win Banner 18. I just, like, kind of didn't enjoy last season as much as I thought I would. So I'm excited to just getting back to, you know, studying the game.
- [27:33]
A
Even when we tried to bring up a counterpoint, it didn't feel genuine, didn't feel authentic.
- [27:37]
B
Yeah, generating content.
- [27:40]
A
Yeah, we. We were. We were talking about nothing for. For essentially five months.
- [27:45]
B
It was tough. It was tough. But, you know, to. To kind of give you my thoughts on, like, what I'm really looking for is the, the comment I made earlier about Jason Tatum playing a very methodical style. Like, Tatum's not a perfect player. There. There's plenty of things that people can complain about with Jason Tatum's style. One of the things is that you kind of have to play to his strengths more, having him fit in around like the other guys, right? The ball is going to be in his hands. He's going to slow the game down. He's going to play high pick and roll, see the floor, manipulate the defense. Like he's getting that good as a point forward. So when you have a guy like that, just because that's a very low risk, low turnover style of basketball, you kind of have to lean into it, right? Especially because Tatum's so good. But there's a lot of me that just wishes Tatum could play at a faster pace. And I think this is the season for the Celtics to show proof of concept and be like, hey, if you also buy into this warp speed style, like there's just nobody that's going to be able to contain us. It's not, you know, warp speed for 3/4, 4th quarter, we slow it down and the ball's just in your hands for 12 straight minutes. Running high, pick and roll, it's actual identity. And that's what I want to see out of the Celtics as they start building towards that and to see if it works. Because if it works and Jason Tatum buys into it, then that's like best case scenario, maybe it doesn't work and we, Jason Tatum comes back and we just go back to running the, to the strengths of Tatum. Or maybe it's a little bit of both, but I'm just excited to see it.
- [29:23]
A
I think the last thing you said, a little bit of both. I mean that's, that's the one thing that I keep coming back to that I feel like wins in the NBA is versatility. Right? Now that's across the spectrum of your roster of your trade and draft assets, of your ability to play double big, to play a single big, to play fast, to play slow, methodical half court. You know, the ability to do as many of those things as possible is what almost every team that wins has. Right? Like the only thing I would say the Thunder probably don't do is shoot threes at volume. Other than that, the Thunder can probably play almost any way that you want or need them to play. Right. And that's what makes them so difficult to be able to deal with. Of course, with on top of that, having talent, which we know the Celtics have the top end talent when they're fully healthy. So the more you can develop and the more you can have in that, you know, Batman tool belt that you want to have, like that's what's going to be better for the long term of this team and you get to figure out, you know, who's still going to be here come next season, stuff like that. And for me, that's where I'm, I'm excited to start the Anthony Simons experience. I want to see what this looks like. A lot of the quotes about him have been around drilling defensive principles, you know, over the last month. Plus from his time, even before training camp started, that he got to Boston. And I want to see what that looks like. I want to see from a guy that, based on reputation, all I've heard is this guy doesn't play defense, right? Like that's, that's again, we've talked about it. We've not watched a ton of Anthony Simons. I know he's athletic, I know he can shoot the thing. I know offensively what I can expect and I think he's likely, if I had to guess, probably going to be the Celtics second lead in scorer. But defensively, like, where's the buy in gonna be? Because this team just went from having Derrick White and Drew Holliday as your ace perimeter defenders. You still have Derrick White, but you know, Peyton Pritchard, not a bad perimeter defender, but he's small. Anthony Simons, 6 3, but he's super athletic. So like let's see what that looks like, right? Like what is that point of attack defense gonna look like? What does Anthony Simons have? And something I keep coming back to a lot and I'll talk about it again when we get to our interesting team, interesting player outside of, of the Celtics. Greg, is the point that you made about Xavier Tillman. It really stuck with me for, for whatever reason about this being like this. This year is so important to him because it's his last chance, right? He has to be good this year or he has to be serviceable if he's going to continue to have a journeyman career. For Anthony Simons in. For a lot of players it's that. But, but you know, a modified version, right? Like for Anthony Simons, if you ever, if you want to get paid in this league, you better have a great year. You better find a way to fit in, buy in and be a difference maker, right? Because if you're not here in this culture, in this setup where you're gonna have a ton of opportunity with players that you haven't had before in the spotlight that you haven't been in, who's gonna look at you and go, I'll give that dude $30 million, right? Like no one's, no one's gonna do that. So Anthony Simons really has to, you know, put his best foot forward and maybe that leads to a long term relationship with the Celtics may. But that leads to, you know, a, a better opportunity for him and for the Celtics in the trade market. And so I think it's one of the most interesting parts of the season. And you know, based on the comments, it's going to start in the defensive end. So I'm excited to see what it looks like from him and see what buying in actually looks like.
- [32:44]
B
That's a really good point. You know, with, with the idea of being able to drill defensive principles and when you get a guy that is a gym rat and by all accounts, Anthony Simons is a gym rat, just lives in the gym, but it's always working on offense. Right. It's like, how much of defense can be taught, like nature versus nurture at its finest. Like, can you nurture Anthony Simons into being a serviceable defensive player, above average defensive player, a guy that you feel comfortable, to your point, putting at the point of attack on defense, or is he just going to be like a guy that doesn't get picked on? Right, because if he's a guy that can be on the court and not get picked on, that means he can play crunch time. But if he gets picked on, he only has a limited amount of time in an NBA game to be on the court. Right. And those guys can get paid, but they're not going to get the, the max money to, to your point. Right. So with the, the Celtics culture, with their identity, you know, we talk a lot about how the Celtics don't necessarily have an identity on offense. Well, they have an identity on defense. Right. They're. They're always going to be some of the hardest players on the defensive end with Derrick White, with Drew Holiday in the past. Peyton Pritchard is a dog. Jalen Brown to dog Jason Tatum, he can strap up when he wants to. Like, there's just so much that Anthony Simons can take away from his first month in Boston. And looking back on a team like Portland, who is building a defensive identity and said, you know what? Anthony Simons doesn't fit here. So, like, where is Anthony Simons going to fit? As more teams try and find defensive identities to go along with their offensive identities? Because offensive identities can sell tickets, but they're not going to win games.
- [34:33]
A
Yeah, exactly. And so it's going to be interesting to see what this looks like against a Memphis team again, that's not going to have some of their main guys, but at the same time, Joe Missoula is not going to care. Joe Missoula, you could, you could run the San CYO team out there, and Joe Missoula is going to do what Joe Missoula wants to do. He's not going to care who is on the other side of that court. And so that leads me to kind of the last point for me is, is. Is I'm going to be studying Joe Missoula all season long. Like, I am so intrigued to see what Joe Missoula does with a group that has kind of a range of expectations, but not championship expectations. Right. And doesn't have championship level talent. That's the biggest Thing for me is, is he's had a roster for three straight years that was championship level talent up and down. And so this year, without that, what does it look like? What, what is Joe Missoula as a head coach with this type of roster? Because this is the type of roster where Brad Stevens would somehow, I don't know, like this, this was back in the day, that horrible, you know, hypothetical question, who would you take first? Brad Stevens or insert like franchise player here.
- [35:43]
B
Like the underdog Celtics are back.
- [35:46]
A
Yeah, exactly. And so this was the team where you felt like in the Brad Stevens peak before Jalen ever became Jalen, before Tatum became Tatum. You know, when, you know, Hayward and Kyrie either weren't here or they were injured and you're like, man, like, I mean, just like the exercise we did going back through the years where it's like this team had like Kelly Olenek and Jay Crowder starting and they were in the conference finals, like, right. How did this happen? Right, like this is that more that type of roster. And so I'm interested to see what Missoula can do. And it doesn't have to be the same as Brad Stevens, but that was where you were like, stamped Brad Stevens top five coach. You can't tell me nothing. I'm not taking Anthony him over Anthony Davis, but he's a top five coach. So for Missoula, I'm very, very intrigued to see, to see what he brings. And this is going to be the first audition of many. So I'm excited to see Joe Missoula throughout this entire season.
- [36:40]
B
Yeah, good point. Well done. Let's. Let's move on to the X factors.
- [36:44]
A
Let's do it here, man. So as we've been doing here or as we started last episode, we are looking at interesting team, interesting player around the league here. Part of kind of a league wide preview that we're doing. Last week we touched on the Bucks and Miles Turner, the Pistons and Jaden Heavy Greg lead us off this week. Who do you got? What do you got?
- [37:06]
B
Oh, I hadn't really decided who I was gonna talk about, so I appreciate you putting me on the spot there. Let's see. Well, I can jump in.
- [37:13]
A
I. I've got. I've got somebody.
- [37:14]
B
No, I got. I got one. I got one. I got one. I'm gonna go to the Southeast Division. So for all you NBA fanatics out there, the Southeast Division consists of the.
- [37:25]
A
Hold on, Wait, can I, can I guess? The Southeast Division?
- [37:28]
B
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
- [37:29]
A
Okay, let me see if. Okay. Because honestly, I, I, Okay, I heard you say the Hawks, which I knew. Anyways, okay, so it's the Hawks, the Magic, the Heat. Don't think it's the Cavs. Hawks, Heat, Magic. God, this is, this is how stupid divisions are in basketball. Really, really hard right now. I mean, that's what I'm trying to think around. Like, who am I missing? Oh, Hornets.
- [37:56]
B
Yep.
- [37:58]
A
Am I, is there one more team that I'm missing in there?
- [38:00]
B
The Wizards.
- [38:02]
A
Okay. I wasn't sure if the Wizards were there or they were in the Atlantic because. Whatever. Yeah, but okay, yeah, cool.
- [38:07]
B
So Hawks, Hornets, Heat, Magic, Wizards. I'm gonna go to the Charlotte Hornets because there's a guy on the Charlotte Hornets that I think is very similar to the Anthony Simons type in which all he does is put up buckets. And there were some great videos of this guy in his preseason game hitting some of the most bananas. Step back. Three pointers. Off of one foot. Off of one foot I have ever seen in my life. And that is the one and only LaMelo Ball. This guy LaMelo Ball since he first kind of burst onto the scene, you know, with Lonzo as his older brother, with Lavar as his dad, and he's this 14 year old kid just shooting half court shots in, in high school games. You're just like, what the hell am I watching? And then he goes to Lithuania and plays professional ball in Lithuania, maybe.
- [38:58]
A
Did he.
- [38:58]
B
I can't remember if he ended up playing in Australia or not, but he did.
- [39:02]
A
I think he'd been Australia right before he got drafted.
- [39:04]
B
Okay. But he's somehow been able to be overrated and underrated at the same time because I think, I still think he's one of the most talented guard, like lead guards in the league. Part of it is he just can't stay healthy. And part of it is because he shoots. Step back. One foot. Three pointers. Where you're just like, what the fuck? Just like his high school coaches are probably like, lamelo, don't shoot fucking half court shots. Like, we can get a better shot than this. My guy. So, like, I'm just so intrigued by who he's going to be as an NBA player because I think this is a make or break year for Lamelo just as a. Can I be a winning basketball player or not?
- [39:44]
A
Yeah. He fits into the mold of player that neither you or I are really big fans of. For me, which was, you know, the Carl Anthony Towns, Trey Young type. More like, I get it. You're super talented. Okay. No one could ever Watch basketball and deny that you're talented, but do I think you're a winning player? Not really. Like, that's. That's where I'm at right now. But there are. And especially, like, when I think back, like, my first impressions of Lamelo, like, the creativity and mindset he has to see certain passes is, like, next level genius type stuff. Like, it's, like, it's crazy when it's on, but I. I find him so maddening to watch and, like, he's clearly the best player in their team, yet he regularly gets benched in the last five minutes because, yeah, that bad on defense or he's that bad at decision making.
- [40:35]
B
I like what you said about him being a genius, because if you've ever worked with a genius before, and I. I feel like I've been lucky enough in, like, the. The music business that I've been in to actually have been around some people that I'd consider, like, eccentric geniuses. And they're almost impossible to get along with and almost impossible to work with. And I think that's kind of what you have with Lamelo. Like, for example, I. I had this project before, Black Sheep Optimist, with this guy Sloan. I don't know if you remember Sloan. Well, he was like, young blonde kid who's just like.
- [41:11]
A
He ate.
- [41:13]
B
Yes, yes.
- [41:14]
A
Maybe this is. Okay. Okay.
- [41:15]
B
Yeah. So there was one show in which I dared him to eat a cockroach on a stage on Halloween. And he actually did it. Like, he could have just pretended like he did it, but he actually ate the cockroach and he swallowed it. And I watched him. And I hadn't heard from this kid in five years because we. He had, like, a fallen out. He was going through some stuff. Didn't even know if he was alive, to be honest with you. And then out of. Out of the blue, the other day, I get a text message from him, and it was just talking about how he. He believes that The Jews did 9, 11. That. That was the whole thing.
- [41:52]
A
He said.
- [41:54]
B
He sent me, like, 20 paragraphs. 20 paragraphs. I'm not kidding. 20 paragraphs about how that's what he has been thinking about for the past years. And he has wanted to reach out to me because he felt like it's something that I would care about too. And I was just like, I haven't heard from you in five years. My guy, like, I literally told him. I was like, I don't want to read this. I don't care what you're talking about. This is absolutely crazy. For you to be texting me this out of the blue after I haven't heard from you in five years. Are you okay? How about we start there? Like, hey, Greg, haven't. Haven't talked to you in five years. How are you? Okay? And this reminds me of when you were just saying, you know, Trey young, Carlton Towns, LaMelo Ball. To me, they're the types of guys that, like, look in the mirror and everything that they see in the mirror is just like. Like, I look so goddamn good. I can, like, like, do whatever I want, and everyone's gonna play by my rulebook, and I don't have to talk to anybody for five years, and I can come back and start talking conspiracy theory, conspiracy theories to my friends. Like, they're still my friends when they're not. Because you completely alienated yourself for the past five years. You know what I mean? And I feel like Lamelo Ball could very quickly kind of get to that point in his NBA career where people look at him and they're just like, oh, you're gonna be full Stefan Marbury eating Vaseline, crying on a stream in a couple years. You know what I mean? Like, it's that level of crazy.
- [43:18]
A
I'm a little blown away. I didn't, I just, I just didn't see this conversation coming. I didn't, I. I didn't know where that was going. That is.
- [43:26]
B
I'm gonna, I'm gonna send you. I'm gonna send you what he sent me, Will. It's bananas. Like, you're gonna open it. You're gonna open it and be like, oh, yeah, this is, like, probably a long thing. And then you're gonna scroll and you're gonna look to the side and see, like, where the little, you know, toggle is for how much longer you have to scroll, and you're gonna be like, Greg was not exaggerating. If anything, he undersold how many words there are in this message.
- [43:53]
A
Yeah. And it's interesting because, like, the eccentric genius that, that you're unable to get along with, like, it's a real thing in artistry and in sports. Like, it. In sports. I think we tend to look at it almost as wasted talent to a degree. And, like, I, I, I. I'll be honest, I hesitated to put Constantine Towns in there because I feel like he's actually shown more than I ever expected in the last couple seasons. Right. Like, I've actually. Carl Anthony Towns is making me soften my stance on him, but I still feel like, Trey Young, we'll see another Big year for Trey Young also, I think, in this realm of what we're talking about. But I think Lamelo is the poster boy for, you know, like you said, I think the way you put Stefan Marbury, Kanye west of. Of basketball, right? Like, of just where is this guy actually gonna go? Where is he gonna take his skill set? And, you know, our guy Charles Lee. Our guy Charles Lee is out there. Like, there is some talent in Charlotte. Like, it's not completely barren. But I do think that, you know, when it comes to LaMelo Ball, it's. It's put up or shut up time. Like, yeah, he's been. He's been. You know, he's been an all star or whatever, but it's. But it's. It's time to actually be. Be a winning player, you know, and actually be able to show something that. That you can produce that is meaningful. Like, can you actually produce something meaningful? Because that's been the thing that's missing, I think, from LaMelo Ball. I'm looking at my stream here, and if you're watching on YouTube, I'm pretty sure Greg's computer has frozen on him. I think. I think that might be the case. Alex, I don't know if you can shoot Greg a quick text here and see if that's the. See if that's the case. See if we've lost our guy here. Man hand down. Man down is what we're looking like right now for Greg. So as. As we get it, AKA Alex. AKA Alex, our producer on it here. And let's see, we might have Greg back in the chat. Yeah, we got double feature of Greg right now on the screen. We'll remove one of them. We've got. Oh, wait, hold on. We brought it back by accident. We're gonna get this correct. All right, Greg, move your hands if you can, if you're. If you're there. Okay, okay, we got you. We got it.
- [46:19]
B
Okay.
- [46:20]
A
I was. I was. I was. I was freestyling on Lamello Ball for a while.
- [46:24]
B
But here's the thing. I could hear everything that you were saying. It's just. You couldn't hear me anymore. But what happened was I sent you the text message with the 10 page, you know, anti anti Semitic thing that kid sent me. So I want to get your. Your just, like, initial thoughts when you look at that message and you scroll through it shorter or longer than you were expecting.
- [46:51]
A
The fact that I. That entire. That entire pause and I started scrolling while you were still talking. I just finished. Yeah, this is a. Jesus Christ, dude. Like.
- [47:09]
D
You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast?
- [47:15]
B
Easy.
- [47:15]
D
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- [48:24]
A
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- [48:57]
B
I sent it to you too, Alex.
- [48:58]
A
I don't know. I can't process this right now. Yeah, real quick.
- [49:04]
C
But it's a lot of characters. I didn't know you could send all that in one text message. It's insane to me.
- [49:12]
A
If you couldn't ask, he couldn't have asked for your email first and then sent you that.
- [49:17]
B
That is like, how crazy is that? To send that to somebody after not having spoken to them for five years?
- [49:24]
C
That's insane. I don't, I don't. Are you like pro Israel Israeli or something? Like, was he trying to prove something to you?
- [49:31]
B
Like, I don't, I don't know where this came from. I'm just like, you know what I mean?
- [49:40]
A
Yeah, like, like, I want to know why does he get the vibe that this is like, you know who I Haven't talked to in a while that, that would really get down with. With this novel idea I have. It's got to be Greg.
- [49:52]
B
Yeah. Very, very strange. I don't put any, I don't put any of that energy out there, you know, genocidal energy out there. So I don't, I don't, I don't necessarily understand what happened, but he sent me that message out of the blue and I somehow made a connection on my own ball. There you go.
- [50:15]
C
There you go.
- [50:16]
A
All right.
- [50:17]
B
Pretty good.
- [50:17]
A
All right, let's, let's try to wrap this up. I don't know how I'm gonna pivot out of this, but I'm gonna try here. All right. For, for my interesting team player with. Yeah, there's no way to smoothly do this. I'm gonna go to DeAndre Ayton and the Lakers and Greg have. Are you, are you pumped for the decision, part two tomorrow night? Are you, Are you locked in for, for the team?
- [50:41]
B
Got to be a retirement thing, right?
- [50:44]
A
Either that or like, I don't know, people are saying it's an Amazon ad. Amazon Prime. I don't, I don't know. I don't listen. LeBron's second greatest player of all time. He's a kick ass, kick ass philanthropist. Does a lot of good. He seems like a good dude. His ego is annoying. As. I'm just, I'm. I don't care. I don't care. It doesn't matter anymore.
- [51:05]
B
And.
- [51:07]
A
The, the thing for me is like deandre Ayton again, this is where I'm coming back to the point you made about Xavier Tillman and what we talked about with Anthony Simons, like deandre Ayton, career wise, he is on the verge of, if he's not already one of the top five or six worst number one picks, that's where he's in the department trending right now. And I really liked Deandre Ayton. Year three, when the Suns were in the Finals. Year four, when the Suns won 60 plus games. Yeah. And dominating has not been there anymore. The last couple years have been a real, real disaster for him. And so, you know, for LeBron who maybe is having his farewell for, for it to end in the way and I don't know. I honestly don't even know if LeBron cares. I mean, not that he, he clearly cares about winning, but I don't think if his career ends in the first or second round, like, I don't know. I just. He would have made other choices if that was really the number one priority in my opinion. But if it's going to happen on the Lakers, it's all tied to the Andre Aiden. Like it really is. Like, as aside from health, aside from health. The entirety of LeBron's potential final chapter is tied to Deandre Ayton being a real big man. And that's a hilarious place for LeBron's career to end. Is relying on Deandre Ayton to be a cornerstone big man for them this season. And I kind of, and I'm kind of interested to see it because again, this is the last chance for Deandre Ayton to not turn into a 27 year old former number one pick journeyman. Right? Like if he's gonna be something, hey, playing with Luke and LeBron, bro.
- [52:46]
B
Well, you know who this just happened to? Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons isn't on a team. Like it can happen that quickly if you don't prove that you belong in the NBA with your work ethic.
- [52:59]
A
Right.
- [52:59]
B
No matter how talented you are, if you don't, you know, to the eccentric genius point again, if you can't look in the mirror and recognize any flaws, you're just not going to last that long in the NBA, man. Like everybody is flawed. And when you get to that level, if you don't have the work ethic to distinguish yourself from the other talented players out there, you're going to find your ass out of the league very quickly. And deandre Ayton, all the talent in the world, but he is, you know, one underwhelming season away from being Ben, right. With Ben Simmons and not playing in an NBA game next year.
- [53:32]
A
And that's where LeBron's legacy is going to end. It was going to be whether or not deandre Ayton becomes re energized or becomes Ben Simmons part two. So I think for me that that's kind of, that's the fascinating point of the Lakers because I think everyone's going to focus on The Reeves, Luca, LeBron part of it. And it's like it's really ultimately that doesn't matter. Marcus Smart is kind of gross to see in a Lakers uniform. Like I hope he gets his career on track, but yeah, already heard exactly. Like Marcus Smart doesn't matter being on the Lakers unless DeAndre 8 matters. Because then it's like, oh, now we have all this or that. If they, if they're relying on Jackson Hayes and Maxi Cleaver, like it just doesn't matter. And I something that has that I've been surprised that has Stuck with me this offseason. Greg, I think I mentioned it before. Still hate that you talked me into picking the Lakers to go to the finals when we did our NBA playoff preview. It has stuck with me. Just random points this. This summer. I've been walking the dog or something. Just like I can't believe I let Greg talk me into that. It was so clearly the Thunder. And I was skeptical of the Lakers from the moment they traded Ad for Luca. Not of that trade, but of, hey, they don't have a center. Like, you got to have a center to win multiple rounds in the NBA. And they got washed by the. By the. By the team.
- [54:52]
B
You hear that, T. Nelson 3 this. You need to have a center. You need to have a center to be a good NBA team, right?
- [54:59]
A
A valuable lesson for us going into this season is that if you don't have a center, it's going to be tough to win. But. Yeah.
- [55:05]
B
Well, here. Here's my biggest counterpoint to. To my point. Let me argue with myself for a second. The Celtics made it to the Eastern Conference.
- [55:13]
A
I'll sit this one out.
- [55:14]
B
With Daniel Tice as their center. Okay. Daniel Tice was an undersized power forward and played center. And he. And inevitably became the reason why the Celtics didn't make it to the finals, right. Is because he couldn't deal with Bam Adebayo in the. In the ball level, right? So, like, there's a level. There's a ceiling to what you can accomplish without a center. And the Celtics, unfortunately, have a pretty low ceiling because they don't have a center this year. That's just. That's just what it is, at least. But maybe, maybe, maybe they could be Daniel Thy.
- [55:48]
A
Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe Luca Garza will be our. Our Daniel. Tyson Nemius Cato will turn into a healthy Rob Williams. Maybe. And then maybe we have something we'll see. I don't know, but we're gonna find out. Starting on Wednesday, Celtics, Grizzlies, get the preseason started. We're going to be streaming after that game. We're going to check in on our bingo cards, see if we're able to knock off a few more squares. We'll recap the game and then, of course, we will hit you with our new recurring segment, Mediocre Life updates. Working on the theme music. Don't have it yet. Working on the theme music here. Got a couple of. Got a couple of options that we're gonna. We're gonna go through here. So we'll find one for Wednesday after Celtics Grizzlies. Kind of weird they're playing the Grizzlies in the preseason. Feels like we usually play like the Wizards and Raptors and like all these east coast teams. Grizzlies just feels kind of random, but, you know, is what it is. Basketball's back. Doesn't matter. And there's three games this week, by the way, Greg. So it's Friday. Excuse me, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. The Celtics play this week. So throughout the week, basketball is most certainly going to be back. We'll have a lot to talk about Wednesday. Then we'll have a lot to talk about on Sunday. Next week as well. We're back to two episodes a week, likely Sunday, slash Monday and then Wednesday are going to be the days that you can expect to find us on YouTube, on Twitter, the next day, that night on Spotify, Apple, wherever it is that you may listen to podcasts, you can find the Green With Envy crew. So for myself, for Greg, for producer Alex, that's going to do it for this episode of Green with Envy. Back at you guys on Wednesday night. Basketball's back, baby. Every time I get this high I lose my mind it don't take much no more until I hit the floor Every time I hit this high it's.
- [57:38]
B
You I find it don't take much.
- [57:41]
A
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