← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Drew Carter Joins the Show: Jaylen Brown vs Beef Stew, Jordan Walsh Nicknames, and Joe Mazzulla's Adjustments Without Jayson Tatum
01:03:50
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- [00:00]
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- [00:37]
Will
Wood thrush, three o'. Clock.
- [00:39]
Walmart Ad Voice
Walmart has a wellness side too, with tons of things I need to feel good, from electrolytes to help keep me hydrated to soothing cough drops for after every show.
- [00:48]
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- [00:51]
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- [00:55]
Drew Carter
Really? Who knew?
- [00:57]
Greg Manakis
Okay, Was that you or the birds?
- [00:59]
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Check out the wellness side of Walmart today.
- [01:01]
Greg Manakis
This is Mike Gorman and you're listening.
- [01:03]
Drew Carter
To Green with Envy with Will and Greg.
- [01:06]
Will
All right, everybody, we are live on YouTube, live on Twitter. Celtics fall last night to the first place. Pistons 112 to 105. That's okay though. We've got our guy, the voice of the Boston Celtics. Drew Carter's joining us today. We're going to talk about last night, we're going to talk about the season as a whole. You guys know the deal. This is Green with Envy.
- [01:25]
Greg Manakis
Let's lock in.
- [01:47]
Will
What up, what up, what up. Welcome into another edition of Green with Envy. As always, this is what will we are checking in. Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Manakis. Greg, you ready to get into the. Into our conversation today with our guest.
- [02:05]
Greg Manakis
I'm excited. I. Dude, I took the whole day off of work for this. Let's go.
- [02:10]
Will
So without further ado, we have, of course, here on our screen. We are live on YouTube, live on Twitter. We have our guy, the voice of the Boston Celtics, the one, the only, Drew Carter. Drew, appreciate you being here, man.
- [02:22]
Drew Carter
What's happening, boys? Great to see you again. This is one of my favorite shows to come on. It's, it's nice that, you know, you say I'm the voice of the Boston Celtics. I don't know if I've said this with you before, but I'LL never call myself that, because the real voice of the Boston Celtics was actually at the game last night. Get a little sneak peek right there. Can you see that picture?
- [02:39]
Will
There it is, Mikey back in the building.
- [02:41]
Drew Carter
The OG was there with his wife Terry last night. You know, it's a big game when the Gorman show up. I didn't even know they were going to be there, but I was. I was running around pregame, going into the tunnel, trying to order a salad to eat at halftime. And there's Mike and Terry in the tunnel. I'm like, oh, boy, this is a big one. And this is gonna be a good one because the Gormans are here.
- [03:01]
Greg Manakis
I saw him wander into the background of. I don't know if it was the postgame or pregame interview, but that was a great clip.
- [03:07]
Drew Carter
The postgame show. Yeah.
- [03:08]
Will
What's. What's your relationship with. With Mike since he's retired? How. How often are you guys in contact?
- [03:14]
Drew Carter
You know, it's great. So Mike and Terry are in Boston occasionally. They spend a lot of time in New York. And then Mike's granddaughter lives in Arizona, so they're going back there for. For the holidays here in a couple of days. But I get to see them, you know, occasionally every now and then when they're in Boston. We actually went to the sports book at Encore to watch Yankees, Red Sox game, one of that series in the playoffs, which the Red Sox won, by the way, so we should have gone back for the rest of the games because they ended up losing that series. But it's been great. So, you know, initially I was. I looked at Mike and I was a little nervous, and I was like, how's this guy going to respond to me? You know, like, you know, nobody knows who I am and not even from Boston. And hopefully Mike doesn't hate me because I'm, you know, trying to follow in his footsteps, but it's been totally the opposite. Mike and his wife Terry, have been great. Terry is. Worked in the TV business for a long time as well. She helped found the WNBA 30 years ago, so she's got a lot of experience in the industry. So I've learned a ton from. From both of them. And it's very special to me that I can call them friends now, you know, and we can hang out after a game like that.
- [04:22]
Will
Yeah. What's. What's Mike like at. At a sports book? I'm very. I'm. I've never pictured Mike Gorman at the casino. So now that's. After you said that, all I can Picture about is, what is Mike Gorman like at the casino?
- [04:32]
Drew Carter
Well, yeah, he went to the high roller table and won a cool mill at roulette. I don't know. We. We didn't. We didn't gamble at all. At least I didn't. I don't know what they did, you know, after. They might have snuck back in there. But no, we were just chilling at the sports book, which is really cool. I mean, if you guys have been to a casino sportsbook, there are a million TVs and everyone's like really dialed into the game. And yeah, there are a couple Yankees fans, so you can chirp a little bit at them because they're everywhere. They're like cockroaches. You just can't get rid of them. But it was, it was a really, really fun experience. And hanging out with them, I mean, they've just. Both of them have so much wisdom, Mike and Terry. So it's fun to just. Just chill with them and, you know, talk about everything.
- [05:09]
Greg Manakis
That's great, man. We actually had Mike on the pod a couple years back. So when, when the episode plays, it always starts with, hey, this is Mike Gorman. You're listening to Green with Envy with Will and Greg. So we're gonna, we're gonna have to get you to do a little voiceover for us as well, so you can go back to back with Mike just like you've done in your career, man. But yeah, he's a really cool dude. When you were the. At the casino, I was just imagining Mike Gorman, like, playing poker. And then someone like Dana White shows up with all this, like, crazy, coked out energy. And Mike Gorman's just sitting there chilling out like, I'm gonna teach these young boys a lesson.
- [05:45]
Drew Carter
Yeah, he's. He's such a chill guy. Like he, you know, they. They flip the last card and he's got a straight flush. Got it. And then Dana White's. Dana White's freaking out. Mike. Just cool, man. See you guys.
- [05:57]
Will
Yeah, I was watching the Stuart Scott documentary the other day. Made me think it just cools the other side of a pillow. That's be Mike Gorman just getting up from the table. But like you mentioned, if Mike's in the building, it's a big game. So last night, you know, Celtics have had some time off, to say the least. Well, we were talking about this before we went live, so we'll talk about this. This cup schedule that we're. We're still, we're finally wrapping up. We're recording this here Tuesday afternoon spurs And Knicks will play in the cup final tonight. And then the Celtics will be back at it Friday, Saturday, back to back with the Raptors and Heat. But last night, one of the makeup cup games Sunday, Celtics get another crack at the Pistons 1 and 1 going into the matchup on the season. Pistons still first in the Eastern Conference. I would say surprising to a certain degree, just with the level of comfortability that they have in that one seed right now, a little past the quarterway mark in the season. And so a really big game for the Eastern Conference. 1 versus 3. Pistons end up on top 112 to 105. Drew, you were there live, calling it locally. Greg and I living here in Texas, we had the NBC call. But I did watch a little bit of went back and watched some different parts of the game this morning. Got to hear a little bit of you and Scal. But I just want to start with your takeaways from this game from a team that has been at the top of the Eastern Conference all season. The Celtics obviously made a really nice run. This cup schedule has kind of slowed some of their moment these last two games. So curious to know what your takeaways are from last night at the Garden.
- [07:21]
Drew Carter
Well, I said this at the end of our post game hit, but you know, the Celtics have now played the number one team in the east three times, beaten them once, probably could have gone three and oh, the Pistons could say the same thing. Each of those games was kind of a toss up down the stretch. And the Pistons are one of the best clutch teams in the NBA. I think they're 14 and 4 now in clutch games, which the league defines is within five minutes and within five points in the last five minutes. So the Pistons are really good in those scenarios. Celtics are now 7 and 8 in those games. But the bottom line is they've been in the mix and could have won all three of these games against the Pistons. And I said that toward the end of the post game show and everyone's like, well, no, no moral victories. We don't do that. This is the Celtics. I'm like, I'm not trying to say it's a moral victory. I'm just saying I think that the Celtics have proven they're swimming in this top tier in the Eastern Conference and they with anybody. And if, you know, if they get in a playoff situation, they're not going to be a big underdog against any team in the Eastern Conference, which to me is notable because I'm not sure that was the expectation. I thought we'd be pretty good. You know, I think there's too much talent and too much winning DNA and a great coach and an amazing organization that's not going to accept a quote unquote gap year as just like, oh, you know, we'll get through this season and then JT will come back, we'll get a draft pick and it'll be fine in 26, 27. I never thought that that was the mentality. So from a big picture perspective, I think they've proven that time and again with the five game win streak and then the weird game in Milwaukee. I know, but the way they played against the Pistons, which is a very big, physical team, it's almost like looking at your. Your opposite. You know, the Celtics are a team if they're going to win big. Big. Sector.
- [08:59]
Greg Manakis
Muted himself real quick. Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll jump in there. On the, on the Pistons game last night, I think the biggest thing that stood out to me with that physicality is when the Celtics went to that 2, 1, 2 zone. Right. Drew, I think you're back. That worked in the first half, not so much in the second half. A lot of it is because the, the Pistons, I think, shot better from three than the Celtics were hoping. That was the game that they decided to play was, you know, dare them to shoot the, the wing threes. Right. Javante Green hit a couple, couple other people. Caris Lavert, I think hit a couple. What adjustments are you seeing out of this team to kind of fit into the, the roster construction that, that we've seen?
- [09:44]
Drew Carter
Yeah. Can you hear me again? Sorry.
- [09:45]
Greg Manakis
Yes. Very good.
- [09:47]
Drew Carter
I unplugged my microphone. I was gesticulating. But yeah, I think, I think it's a good point, Greg, because I feel like Joe deserves so much credit for the way that this team is played this season. You know, it was the first Pistons home game the day before Thanksgiving where Nish K missed his first game of the season. And we were looking around like, what are we going to do? Because they're huge. They're one of the best rebounding teams in the league. Jaylen Duran has looked like a bodybuilder since I think he was 13 years old. So he's one of the biggest dudes in the NBA and one of the best bigs. Probably going to be an all star this year. So we're thinking, like, how are we going to get rebounds against this team? And then Amari Williams played well, you know, best game we've seen him play and he's recovering from a hand injury right now, but Amari played well in that game. But for the most part, the Celtics just went small. And down the stretch, they went super small. Like Baylor, Shireman and. And Jordan Walsh were playing in the front court, and I think that kind of unlocks something in that game. And ever since, it's been, you know, Nemi playing half the game and then the other half just going really, really small. I. I think we rolled out the smallest lineup I've seen from the Celtics last night, where, you know, Hauser and Shireman were the four and the five. You know, that's. That's a tiny lineup, but it is a little bit counterintuitive. I think it's perfect. Joe Missoula, where you watch him in press conferences, you talk to him away from a microphone, he is contradictory to his core. He's always looking at the flip side of, you know, the consensus. Right. Like, when that kid asked him, how do you keep it fun? He's like, I don't like that word fun. And that's like one of his trigger words that makes him upset. You know, this is Joe Missoula to a T is being the contrarian. So, hey, the Pistons are huge and a great rebounding team. We go small, and it worked really well in the last game against the Pistons and last night, junk in the game up a little bit with that zone. It seemed like when. When Ivey was in there, the Celtics went to the zone. I'm not exactly sure why. This is why. Joe's a mad scientist. I don't always understand the chemistry of why he's making a decision, but I trust him. And there were a couple different guys who were playing in the middle of that. Two, one, two. You know, Walsh was in there a little bit. D. White was in there. I think it worked pretty well. My thing is when. When Cade was off the floor, I feel like we could have played them straight up and defended pretty well. But the zone was an interesting look, and I'm. I'm looking forward to seeing if. If we do a little bit more of that.
- [12:12]
Will
Yeah, the zone was so fascinating because notoriously, the Celtics do not play zone. Right. Like, it's them. And I think there's one other team that have played the least zone over the last few seasons in the entire NBA. So this isn't even something other than. I think a few times in the preseason, we may have seen him. We're like, oh, we're going to do it this year. And it was kind of like the talk of how Fast we're going to play this year and then we have the slack race in the league. Just, you know, just, just playing mind games across the board here is what this team has been doing. So I did think the zone was a really fascinating look and I was just pulling up the box score here as you were talking Drew, to the point of, you know, maybe playing it with Jaden Ivey out there, he was one of seven from three. Right. So kind of suckering him into some of those shots and in the way you describe Joe as a mad scientist, think he's easily the most fascinating part of this entire season for me. And he's, I mean he's a fascinating individual as we all know, just in general. But I think with this season, and we've talked about this a bunch on our show, you know, he came in to be the Celtics head coach in a, you know, last second issue with the whole IMA situation. But over the last three years, up until this season, he's had a top two, three, four roster across the league. Right. And that's not to take anything away from his coaching, but it is easier to coach a basketball team when you do have some of the top level skill players that he's had. This year it's a lot different and to your point, we're seeing a lot of different looks. And so this small ball look, which I was actually at that first Pistons game or the second Pistons game, but the first home game that you mentioned, right before Thanksgiving, I was sitting there with my cousin who is a, is a basketball fan but he more is just he, he even admits he's an old school basketball fan. He's like, where's a big. He was losing his mind that there was no big on the court. I was like, it's going to be okay, man. We, we don't really have a big right now anyway, so that would give you a scada. So like I don't really know what else. Let's just roll with it. And, and to your point, I think it has unlocked something, I think, and I'm curious to see here going forward. I wonder if. Now to your point about Joe continually looking to play the other side of things as the league has gotten a chance to take a breath with this NBA cup schedule, see the Celtics playing and having success with these smaller ball or wing lineups, whatever you want to call it. I'm curious to see what Joe does from here. Right. Because this is going to be now something that Joe, he made the adjustment, now the league's adjusting now he's going to have to make another adjustment. Back to it. I'm curious, you know, from a Joe Missoula standpoint, what have been some of the, you know, strategic elements of. Of his season that have really stood out to you even outside of just, you know, going to this newer lineup?
- [14:34]
Drew Carter
Yeah, I think what you. You kind of hit on it before is the pace, the pace thing. And we, I mean, we bought in. You know, everybody talks about playing fast in the preseason. That's. That's like the, the free space on the bingo card for, you know, a new coach press conference, especially in college. But I think it happens in the n. Like, how do you guys want to play? Well, we want to play fast. We want to be physical. We want to be built on the defense. Everybody says that. But looking at our roster going into the season, Scal and I both felt like we were going to play a little bit faster because we've been toward the bottom of the league in pace really the last few years. And with Jalen, who's one of the best transition players in the NBA, kind of as, you know, the fulcrum of the offense and, you know, playing a little bit smaller and Pritchard playing more, he likes to push tempo white as the trailer on, you know, those transition possessions, I felt like it just made more sense for the Celtics to play with more pace. And it's actually gone the other way. They're playing even slower. And you watch it. It makes sense because Jalen's very deliberate in the half court, likes to get into his bag a little bit, you know, as the youths like to say, and it's working for him. He's been super efficient and he's really moving the ball better than he has. I think at any point of his career. This is his best playmaking season, without a doubt, in addition to his best scoring season. And the Celtics are just playing a little bit slower. And I think, I do think that that's also intentional. I think that's another thing that, that Joe is preaching. Now. When you get into pay stats, it's tough to find like a catch all stat that everyone kind of agrees on. You know, you have the one on NBA.com which is just raw possessions, but it's a little bit different. I think people like, like Joe maybe look at playing fast and air quotes as different from just raw possessions. I think where the Celtics get into trouble is when it becomes too deliberate and there's not enough movement on offense and the shots just come too late in the shot clock. But I also think that there are some benefits to playing slow where, you know, the Celtics just don't have as much talent on the roster as they have in the past. When you shrink the number of possessions in a game, you shrink the number of opportunities for the more talented team to build up a gap. And so I think that's how the Celtics have. They haven't really been, you know, blown out in, in this season, except twice. Maybe that Houston game on a back to back where it was a scheduled loss and they had no chance. And then there was one other one where they just didn't play well. I don't count that Milwaukee one as a blowout because they played great in the first half, but they, they have hung in every game and obviously won more than half of them. So I, I feel like Joe deserves a ton of credit for how he's built this team and changed it in his image. And I was talking to someone before the game last night. I feel like Joe in year four now has fully formed and has fully come out of his shell, if there ever was one, and is just showing you exactly who he is. We got glimpses of it more and more throughout his first three years, but this is his first chance to really have his identity be the team's identity. Because you're right, Will, when he took over, I mean, the Celtics have been favored to win a championship or be in the finals every year. He's been a head coach until this one. And now we really get a chance to see Joe have his fingerprints all over the way the team plays and, and clearly it's been successful.
- [17:36]
Greg Manakis
Yeah, I'm almost expecting him to start like pulling out the old flex offense from like Al Skinner's BC teams just to slow the game down and, and make it more possession based. You, you mentioned jb and I feel like we have to talk, you know, spend at least five minutes talking about the season that he's having. Eight out of nine last nine games, 30 point games. He did miss eight free throws in the game. Last night was just like bringing back memories from past seasons where like I, Jaylen was over missing the free throws and then last night happens. I haven't thought about Jaylen missing free throws all season until last night. First question for you though on Jaylen, just a fun one and then we'll get into his actual play this season. JB vs. Beef Stew at the end of the last time the Celtics played the Pistons, Joe trust Jaylen to box out Stewart one on one at the end of the game. Right where they. That. That box out on Stewart sealed the game. Yeah, he had a couple box outs on him last night. Where they got tangled up. Jalen does his little shake the fist thing at Stuart. That Stuart did, too.
- [18:35]
Will
Can I ask what is that thing? I. I feel very out of the loop. It felt like people knew what this was, and I have no idea what it. What. What?
- [18:40]
Greg Manakis
That he did it to Bobby Portis.
- [18:43]
Will
So, like, I don't. Yeah, it's a new Jalen signature that I'm missing out on.
- [18:47]
Greg Manakis
No, it's. It's Isaiah Stewart's signature.
- [18:49]
Will
Oh, gotcha. Gotcha.
- [18:50]
Greg Manakis
Yeah. Yeah. He did it to Bobby Porter. So JB was mocking him. Who do you think wins in a fight? Just straight up. I'm just gonna throw it out there.
- [18:57]
Drew Carter
So. I'm so glad you asked this question. We actually did discuss it on the broadcast last night, because I said, you know, Isaiah Stewart challenges everybody. That might not be the guy you want to challenge, because JB does the underwater training and trains in Muay Thai, and he's yoked like this guy. If they were doing, like, a battle royale with all the players in the NBA and you had a bracket, I got Jaylen Brown, at least in the final Four. The thing is, Isaiah Stewart's probably there as well. So that would be. That would be very entertaining. And Scal said last night, you know, nobody really wants to fight in the NBA anymore. And I was like, there are a few exceptions. Like, Isaiah Stewart, I think, actually wants to fight everybody, which is, you know, it's fine. That's his identity. That's how he's made it in the league. And he's a really good player. Like, he. He's more than just a tough guy. He's one of the best root protectors in the NBA. He's an elite rebounder. He is a huge part of their identity. So I actually have a lot of respect for him, but he does mix it up. And JB Bickerstaff said before the game, he was talking about, you know, the physicality of the team and their identity and kind of being built in the image of the best Pistons teams ever, which are the bad boys. And then, you know, the early 2000s, when they won a championship, and yet the Wallaces and those guys were tough as. So I hope we can. We. We can swear on this, right?
- [20:18]
Greg Manakis
Yeah.
- [20:18]
Will
Let it fly, brother. It's all good.
- [20:20]
Drew Carter
So quoting J.B. bickerstaff, this is exactly what he said. He said, you know, our guys, they're just always ready to Respond. They don't really start. Well, sometimes they start. He said that before the game. And I was thinking about that as Isaiah Stewart and JB were getting kind of tangled up. And you know, JB is not going to back down from anybody. And he actually, he crossed half court and he was talking to Isaiah Stewart in the Pistons huddle, like he's about it. Okay. And both of those guys are. So to answer your question, I would actually, I would take jb. I mean, what am I going to do? Say that our guy would lose in a fight? But objectively, I think Jalen has more disciplines and he's probably learned some jiu jitsu from Joe or karate.
- [21:03]
Walmart Ad Voice
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- [21:10]
Will
Wood thrush, three o'. Clock.
- [21:11]
Walmart Ad Voice
Walmart has a wellness side too, with tons of things I need to feel good. From electrolytes to help keep me hydrated, to soothing cough drops for after every show.
- [21:20]
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- [21:24]
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- [21:27]
Drew Carter
Really? Who knew?
- [21:29]
Greg Manakis
Okay, was that you or the birds?
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- [21:35]
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- [22:04]
Drew Carter
But Isaiah Stewart, I do believe his dad was a boxer and he is, you know, one of the toughest guys in the league. So I would, I would sign up for that fight. I think neither of them would tap out before they die. So it would be interesting.
- [22:16]
Will
I mean, Jalen's got the boxing background with his grandfather as well too. Yeah, exactly. Having all of those. So I am curious, you mentioned if there was a final force. Let's not derail this too long, but let's talk it out here. If there was a final four and I feel like we have to, let's do non James Johnson division because he's an actual fighter, right? Like, he's like. So let's just remove.
- [22:37]
Drew Carter
He can officiate.
- [22:39]
Will
Exactly, exactly. So if we.
- [22:41]
Greg Manakis
If you win, if you win the final four you get to fight the boss.
- [22:44]
Will
You have to. Exactly. He's already in the finals. You. You have to win to then get to. To face him. So if we're thinking beef stew, jb, I'm gonna throw. Stephen Adams has got to be in this mix just because he's. He's just a nut bag that I don't think is scared of anyone. Who else do we think could be potentially in this final four of.
- [22:59]
Drew Carter
Re.
- [23:00]
Will
Of. Of guys that aren't just all talk in the NBA?
- [23:03]
Drew Carter
Well, I'm glad you said Stephen Adams. He was the first one who came to my mind. He seems like a really, really nice guy and a very chill dude, but not one you want to mess around with. I think this. This might surprise some people, but I don't want to fight Nicola Jokic. The dude's from Serbia. And when. I don't know if you. You caught this, but the Morris brothers have a podcast now, and they said clips, you know, you remember Jokic like, slapped the back of the head of one of the Boris brothers and gave.
- [23:34]
Will
Him whiplash, like, multiple days for, like, multiple weeks.
- [23:36]
Greg Manakis
Yeah, he didn't play for months.
- [23:38]
Will
Yeah.
- [23:38]
Drew Carter
Because they had been going back and forth and getting tangled, and, you know, the Morris brothers seemed pretty tough, and Jokic was like, I've had enough of this. And he, like, really injured him on the floor. So the Morris. So they go. They have beef, right? So they go back with that. The Morris brothers on their podcast say, you know, if it were a fight between them and the Jokic brothers, they think they would win. And look, guys, that's a little aggressive. That's ambitious. I think if you think you can beat the Jokic brothers in a fight, those dudes are massive. And they're from Serbia, which to me means you're tough. So I would put Jokic in the mix.
- [24:13]
Greg Manakis
I'd probably throw Bobby Portis in there too. Like, when Bobby Portis and beef Stew got into that little tussle a week ago, I was really excited. Like, Bobby Portis breaking Nicole. Crazy ass jaw. Yeah, crazy ass Bobby Portis. Like, that would be a pretty good one too. So I'd throw him in there. In the chat, Rob, version one says, you just got to throw Joe in there. So if you're gonna go duos of player coach, like Joe and Jalen definitely up there.
- [24:38]
Drew Carter
Eme would probably pick Emay and Stephen Adams. Yeah.
- [24:41]
Greg Manakis
Eme and Stephen Adams versus Joe and Jalen would be a hell of a match.
- [24:45]
Will
Hey, listen, that sounds like a good pay per view. That we could sell in Boston. That's, that's one that I think could do some numbers. So I think that would be, that would be a good place for, for us to go with that. So.
- [24:55]
Drew Carter
All right, well, that's, that's my NBA cup. That next year Emirates sponsor that NBA Cup.
- [25:02]
Will
Let's. All right, let's do this here, Drew, because I know you've got some, some takes on the NBA cup schedule. I want you to get them off right now. So the, the cup schedule has really kind of jammed up some of the Celtics momentum here. They obviously had two games to fill in what was basically like a, I think a 9, 10 day gap. So that's where you get the Bucks game last week in which Kyle Kuzman, Bobby Portis, they just go nuts. It is what it is. The Celtics missed a bunch of threes. Two guys that don't usually shoot 85 from the field shot 85 from the field combined. It kind of is what it is. And then you get last night where it's two top teams going at it in a game that. A few breaks one way or the other, really competitive game, back and forth. But now we're still back to another three days off here for the Celtics. So it's been a really interesting time. And so as someone that, that's there with the team, I want to know what, what, what has this done to the team from the momentum that was building to where we are now and then where we are going forward with the schedule.
- [25:57]
Drew Carter
Yeah, and I'm looking at this stats report I got from last night because there's some stuff in there about the Celtics on short rest versus, like, with, with multiple days off and we're better this year on short rest. And part of that, I think has to do with, you know, the fact that during the start of the season before the NBA cup, the games are jammed in there because they know that they're going to have this two week window where everyone plays twice. And I just feel like. Let me just start by saying I think the NBA Cup's a really good idea. I actually enjoy it. I think, you know, the courts are cool. I think it's smart to have a way to try to drum up a little extra interest with some more incentives for the players and the fans can have something to root for. At this point of the year, you're going up against the NFL. It does feel like it takes the NBA a long time to kind of click into gear in terms of public interest with the NFL still going on. So I like The NBA Cup. I think it's a good idea. With that being said, I feel like it's really like an unforced error how they've done the schedule. First of all, nobody cares about the preseason at all. Nobody gives a shit. We did. We had four preseason games this year and saw the other team starters once for a half in the last preseason game. So why are we even doing that at all? I mean, I haven't really heard a great argument as to why the season doesn't start at the beginning of October as opposed to the end of October. Then you give yourself three weeks of cushion where you don't have to jam the games in before the NBA Cup. You can still take your two week window if you want to have that be the only thing on the schedule. Another decision, by the way, I, I don't really agree with, like you can do the entire knockout round. It's, it's three rounds. You can do that in a week. It doesn't have to be two weeks. And then that way you don't have to open up a two week window in the schedule where the Celtics play twice in two weeks and lose all the momentum they've had. And really the real thing is it's not about this this time where they play twice in a week, that's fine. It's good to have days off because we want players to play and we're lucky guys. The team we cover, the guys actually like playing and they've got a great sports science and training staff and, and our dudes rarely miss games. Obviously, you know, Jason Tatum, a first team all NBA guy, isn't playing, but it seems like every night he's the only dude on the injury report. So I feel really lucky to be calling games for the Celtics where it's not like we have a game where, you know, four of our top six are missing. That rarely, rarely happens. But around the league it happens all the time. Think about all the stars who have missed a bunch of time this year, especially with, you know, how, how petrified everybody is of the Achilles injury. So if a guy gets a calf strain, you can kiss him goodbye for two, three weeks. And that's a new thing in the NBA. So when you jam the games in there, it makes it more likely that guys are going to have to miss time. And I just feel like if you start the season earlier and you don't take so much time with this cup knockout round window, you can fix a lot of these issues just like that. And I don't really understand why they haven't done it already?
- [28:49]
Will
I really like your idea of kind of because. Right. The debate's always around, is an 82 game schedule too much? The answer is yes. But no one's taking away games, right? No. No one wants to lose money. But if you extend it out, you give yourself more opportunity to not have to squeeze in those games. Like, I'm looking at the preseason schedule right now and there's like a bunch of days off that are just not really needed. Right. That could just be. You could easily make that a slower build of the season. And I think for me, with the NBA Cup, I think the, when you get to the Knockout St. They all have juice. I really like the, the knockout stages with you. They could be a little bit more condensed. Like also, can you imagine going to, first of all going to Vegas from Saturday. You go there for Saturday, then you extend your stay until Wednesday morning. Like, and they might get rid of Vegas altogether anyways. But that's a lot of large ask on a whim for, you know, for these fans if you want to have juice in the arena. And so, you know, one of the things that, for the cup that's been bothersome to me that I brought up on this show is when they have the different, the different groups. It really bothers me when we're in the middle of tournament play, but they play the same team multiple times. One game counts, one game doesn't count. So in your version where we extended out here, October is essentially preseason slash warm up month. Let's just make the whole month of November's cup games. You only play the teams in your group. You play two games a week, maybe three games a week. And you just play the Nets, the Magic, whatever teams are in your group, home and home. And it kind of then expands it out a little bit. You get a little bit more, you know, a little bit more gravity to it, a little bit more depth to it. And it makes it really simple because I think there's too many nights where even Tuesdays and Fridays I'm like, hey, I'm tuning in. And sometimes I'm like, wait, where's the funky court? Like, it's, this one doesn't count, but the other one counted. So I, I just think there needs to be a little bit more connectivity. But I really like your idea of, of starting season a little earlier to give a little bit more space and then get these great games where when teams have rests, shockingly, they look a lot better. It's a lot better basketball.
- [30:41]
Drew Carter
Yeah. And you know, it's, it's new. It's year three of the cup, so don't expect. They didn't even even have a name for it in year one. We were still calling it the in season tournament.
- [30:49]
Will
So.
- [30:49]
Drew Carter
So I get it. Like this is new and you know, the, the league is trying to figure it out. But that would be my suggestion is if you really want to do this at the start of the year, why not open the season, you know, three weeks earlier than we are right now? Because I really, I don't think that the way they're doing it now is sustainable. Where The Celtics played 5 and 7 and then had a day off and then had a 3:30 start in Toronto, I mean, 6 and 9 with an early start at the back end is not easy. And thankfully, like I said, our guys like to play and we're better on short rest. But in terms of the health of the league and you know, other fans seeing star players, I just feel like it's not sustainable. So let's come together, we have a common sense solution and let's, let's fix this bad boy. Because I think, like I said, I think it's a great idea. It just doesn't have to, it doesn't have to have such a negative impact on the rest of the games where because of the cup, everyone has to play a ton at the start of the season. I just think there are a couple, you know, simple fixes that the league could make. Now, of course, anytime something seems simple from the outside, it's probably much more convoluted. But that would be my suggestion.
- [32:03]
Greg Manakis
Yeah. And I, I think with the condensed schedule at the beginning of the year puts a lot of pressure on guys to, to be there every night playing basketball, which Jalen Brown has done. I think he's missed one game this year. We got completely sidetracked with the, the fighting conversation early. We didn't get to actually touch on Jalen's play this year. So what have you seen out of Jalen Brown this year where he's playing at an MVP level? In my mind, this is on par with any season we've seen out of Jason Tatum. Like, it's just been really impressive to watch Jaylen Brown grow into this team leader number one option. So what are your thoughts on Jalen season?
- [32:41]
Drew Carter
Well, I've been so impressed by him and I have so much respect for him. And a big reason why is what you said about how he hasn't really missed any time at all. He missed the, the one game was you know, an in and out against Washington where we won the game by 45. And then we played the Lakers at home the next night, which, real quick.
- [32:58]
Will
Apologies to our producer Alex. That's the one game he to. He lives in D.C. went to the one game against the Wizards. The one. One game. Jaylen Brown sits out. Sorry about that.
- [33:05]
Drew Carter
Yeah, sorry, Alex. I mean, you'd rather see the German rock band that your dad is in anyway than. Than a Celtics Wizards game. So that, that's more entertaining regardless. But I just. So start with that. Start with the fact that he always plays, then the fact that he takes accountability. I mean, last night he said, this one's on me. I'm looking at the box score like, yo, bro, you had 34, 8 and 7. Sure, this one's on you. I know I missed some free throws, but that, that to me wasn't the difference in the game. The Pistons missed a bunch of free throws as well. I think Thompson was maybe 1 for 6 or 1 for 7. So anyway, I, I just think Jalen has brought it on a nightly basis. You mentioned Greg 30 plus and eight of his last nine. And the one where he didn't have 30 was a triple double at Cleveland and one of the Celtics most impressive wins of the season. He's just been tremendous. At the start of the year, when we were 03, Scal was talking a lot about how he didn't feel like we were a very good passing team. And I thought that was where we missed Tatum the most because when the offense is running through Jalen, he's, he's never been a high assist guy. And I, I felt like we were really missing some playmaking because Jalen was scoring super efficiently. But it did feel like a lot of standing around for the other guys. And even in a month, I feel like that has improved immensely. I mean, he had the seven assists last night. If you're. It's just, it's kind of simple with Jalen. To me, if you're going to play him one on one, he's going to score. And now if you're going to bring an extra defender, he's going to find the open guy, which I don't, I don't know if at the start of the year he was doing as well as he is now. So I think he's improved even from the high clip he set at the start of the year. And he should be, you know, maybe first, certainly second team all NBA at this point of the season, because what he's done is remarkable.
- [34:50]
Greg Manakis
Yeah, he slipped into the top five of the NBA.com MVP ladder. What I actually saw out of Jalen early in the season, we talked a little bit about it on the pod was it looked like he was trying to. To facilitate, like he was still scoring efficiently, but it almost looked like he was like, oh, well, this is what JT used to do. So I have to do a lot of what JT used to do versus just being great at what he does and actually doubling down on his strengths as being a play finisher. And I thought Missoula also did a good job of, you know, putting them, you know, wide pin downs, getting them into the elbow and letting him just create. Because then you see when teams don't play him one on one, they have that late help. He's able to, you know, go up for the shot, slide a little pass to Nemi on the baseline, little things like that where the reads become a lot more simple and a lot more repetitive versus him trying to run high, pick and roll the entire game, which is not what he does the best. Right. He's best at going one on one. He's best in isolation, getting to his spots and, and kind of doing DeMar DeRozan, Kobe Bryant, you know, impressions. And I think that he's. He's doing a really job this year of playing within himself and just doing what he does great. Is there anything else you've seen out of Jalen just as, like, leadership that you think has been different from years past?
- [36:05]
Drew Carter
Well, I just want to say I've seen the exact same thing you have. That, to me, is. Is the big difference when the offense is running through Jalen versus Jason. A lot of the time the screen will come for JB before he gets the catch, and then he has the matchup he wants. He has the space. He wants to go one on one. And then when the double comes, that's when he makes the play. JT's a lot of high pick and roll, get downhill, spray it out, or finish at the basket, which, you know, you can do when you're 69 or 610 and elite around the rim. So the offense does look a little bit different. I think that's why our pace is. Is maybe even lower, because, you know, Jalen gets to his spot, makes some things happen, gets the advantage, and then they have to bring the second defender, and that's why his assist numbers are up. It's just. And I think feel like Joe deserves credit for that as well with how they built the offense around JB as opposed to how it was around JT from a leadership perspective. I think it starts with playing, you know, like, like we talked about just playing, being out there, like, if, hey, if our star player is out there, I better be out there, you know, And I think that's kind of the identity of the team as it is. These guys just like to play, but there's a lot of accountability. Jalen has talked a bunch about, you know, how he values defense and rebounding as much as he values offense. And I think he's, he's, you know, learning this year how difficult it is to be number one option all the time on offense and maintain your level defensively and from a rebounding perspective. And I think he's done a great job of balancing all those things, but there was a time in media day where, you know, I asked him a question about, you know, extra responsibility without Tatum for the start of the season. And I just did a bad job avoiding the question. And I, I said, you know, you're one A, no question every time you're on the floor now. And I just don't like the 1A because, you know, people pitting the, the Jays against each other is the oldest in media. So I didn't want him to think that I was like falling into that or trying to make him feel like I was doing it. So I went and I found him after the interview and I was like, hey, man, just want to, you know, apologize for using that terminology. It's not what I meant. I just was talking about extra responsibility without him, and he was like, nah, man, you're good. But I think when, when people talk about 1A, 1B, they're only talking about offense. They're not talking about defense and rebounding. And those are things that he really values. We've heard for years from him. What he wants now at this point of his career is to make an all defense team. I don't think the, the MVP is his goal or even first team, all NBA. I think he wants to be on an all defense team. And again, it's hard to do that when you're scoring almost 30 points a game. But I feel like that's where he puts a lot of, you know, eggs. That's one of those baskets where it's very valuable for him. So, you know, to me, Jalen's all around game has been just incredible to watch this year and really fun.
- [38:44]
Greg Manakis
Well, it's, it's kind of weird that, you know, the whole pitting of JT against jb, it is media created but it's also natural and human for us to compare two guys that, like, play the same position more or less. So one thing that I've noticed this year, Jalen's having an unbelievable season. Like, he's pumping up the crowd. The crowd is clearly responding to him. He's kind of like the puppet master of the whole arena in Boston. I still haven't heard any MVP chants for him yet. Like, anytime Tatum would go to the line, there would always be MVP chance. Even if it was just, like, one or two lone voices in the wilderness yelling out mvp, there was always something. I haven't heard one MVP chant for Jalen. Is that just not coming through the tv? Like, have you heard any live. Like, what's going on?
- [39:27]
Drew Carter
Well, it's funny you bring that up. I tweeted, I think last week during the Knicks game. Like, next time JB's at the line, let's hear some MVP chants, folks. Like, come on, this guy's playing out of his mind. And of course you get some. I mean, it's. It's social media, so you get some people. Like, well, we just want him to make the free throw. He's gonna miss the free throw anyway. Or not in the MVP discussion. Like, that's.
- [39:50]
Will
I like your Twitter fan voice. This is a big fan of this.
- [39:52]
Drew Carter
That's how they all sound. Well, you know, he's not gonna win MVP anyway.
- [39:55]
Will
I'm like, no.
- [39:56]
Drew Carter
Like, no one's gonna win the mvp aside from SGA and Jokic, assuming they stay healthy. That's just the part of the league we're in. Okay, I get it, but how many guys get MVP chance in a season? Like, a hundred? If. If a guy is playing really well at home, shower, show him some love, man, because I'm with you, dude. That's never really been. His experience in Boston is. Is getting those MVP chance. He has been. What's that? It's kind of like, this is the time to. To give him the MVP chance. It's real. It's not about being like. Like, I vote for Jalen Brown. I believe he should win MVP this season. That's not what you're doing, dude. Just some MVP chance. It's fun. And I actually did. I. I'm pretty sure I heard some MVP chance last night. And then he missed the first free throw. If he had made the first.
- [40:49]
Will
The guy in the wilderness got scared off after the first missed free throw and was like, okay, he did the Homer Simpson meme and he just went. Retreated back into them.
- [40:55]
Drew Carter
And the Guy on Twitter, told you so. You can't chant mvp. He'll miss the free throws. Like, everybody relax. Like, this is supposed to be fun. And he does. He really deserves that support. That's what it's about because, you know, we got to tip the cap to this guy. He's been amazing.
- [41:11]
Will
He's been so good. And I think it's really interesting now that we're getting to see him, you know, in his element as the. The, you know, Jason Tatum's in the background doing his leadership, but we're getting to see JB on full display, right? And I think one of my favorite parts of the season so far is tied into his leadership. And Noah Dalzell wrote a great piece about how he's been kind of mentoring Jordan Walsh. Right. And the rise of Jordan Walsh and the role Jalen Brown's played in this is one of the. Part is my favorite part of the season. I'll just say that's my favorite part of the season. Greg and I basically wrote off Jordan Walsh just for the fact that we hadn't seen anything that really felt tangible, like, okay, other than his size, other than what else is there? And we really hadn't seen much over two seasons in a couple summer leagues and then the first seven, eight games, whatever it was that. That he didn't play in. And now you've seen this rise where he's getting compliments from Austin Reeves as being an all defensive player. Austin Reeves is averaging, you know, scoring like, kind of like Jalen Brown scoring over 30 points a game. And so you're seeing him guard the best guy every night. Cade was awesome last night. Jordan Walsh got a bulk of that responsibility, but Joe is trusting him against these guys night in and night out. And so there's two things that we need to discuss with Jordan Walsh. We're going to start with the fun part because it's what everybody wants to know. In Celtics Twitterland or in Celtics fandom, Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance to save you money. That's it. That's the ad. No bells and whistles. No guys.
- [42:39]
Drew Carter
I said no bell, bells and whistles.
- [42:42]
Will
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- [42:54]
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- [43:00]
Will
What about toys? Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year? Yep.
- [43:04]
Walmart Ad Voice
Barbie, Tony's and Lego. Gifts that will make them all cheer.
- [43:08]
Drew Carter
Do you mean they have all the brands I adore.
- [43:10]
Walmart Ad Voice
They have Nintendo, Nespresso, Apple, and more.
- [43:13]
Will
What about. So the.
- [43:15]
Walmart Ad Voice 2
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- [43:26]
Will
Have we settled on a nickname for Jordan Walsh again, Drew, I want to apologize. Greg and I, we live in Texas, so we got the NBC broadcast last night. I saw you had tweeted that you had something ready for. For last night, so. So I actually don't know if you dropped this on the broadcast last night, but if we're still open, I know Greg has a pitch he wants to make of what we've been calling him on this show. So did you break it out last night, or is this still open for us to. To make our. Make our Shark Tank case?
- [43:54]
Drew Carter
I did. I. I said something last night, but it actually wasn't what I was planning. So I had seen. Because we have, you know, feels like a month between games now. I had gotten a bunch of tweets with nickname suggestions for Jordan Walsh, including from you, Will. You had texted me a suggestion. And the. My favorite one that I had seen was Warden Walsh, because I knew Jordan had. He liked Alcatraz much more than the garbage man or any of the dumb ones we get on Twitter. He liked Alcatraz, Right. You know, obvious reasons. You know, you're locked up when he's defending you. So I think with that prison motif, Warden Walsh makes a lot of sense. It rhymes with his name. There's also that thing people do where, you know, if you're winning, you're taking dubs. We put a W at the beginning of your name, Warden Walsh. I think it makes a lot of sense. So I really like that one. Then before the game, I ran into this guy, Drew Cigna, who works with JB on his Twitch streams and all of his videos. And Sigs told me that Wall street was Jordan's favorite, and. And the comments seemed to like it. Wall Street. I was like, that's interesting. I hadn't heard that one before, but I kind of like it. You know, it's. You know, you got the. The money and the vault. Like, Jordan's kind of a vault. You can't. You can't get through him. Wall street is good. Then you can go Wolf of Wall Street. So we do our pregame hit and tape the open on the floor when the players come out. So a lot of the time and scale, we used to be like, it doesn't matter which Side we sit on, we don't really care. Now, I always sit on the outside, closer to the court, because I like to talk to the players before, like, hey, what's up, man? Sam Houser usually comes over and, like, talks about the Vikings, who are not very good this year because he's a huge packers fan. Last night, he was like, man, Micah Parsons, Torres, acl. I'm like, yeah, sorry, bro. You guys are cooked. Anyway, that's the type of stuff I like to do before the game. And Scale's like, yeah, Drew, you sit on the outside. You're like, hey, what's up, man? Yeah, yeah, whatever. So, anyway, it actually does benefit me sometimes, Like, Namish, Kada, Portuguese, obviously. I wanted to ask him how you say Merry Christmas in Portuguese, because we were starting the. The show with a shot of Christmas lights in D.C. felice Natal. Yes. In case you were wondering. So, anyway, I find that there is. There's some utility in asking these guys just a quick question before the game. Don't want to, you know, bother them, interrupt their flow, but they're good. Feeling loose, whatever. So I saw Jordan. I'm like, yo, what do you think of Warden Walsh? He's like, I like that. I'm like, how about Wall Street? He's like, oh, I like that. I think. And then, so he goes through the layup line, comes back, sees me again, says, I think Wall street is. Is better. I like that one. Wall Street. I know that's a long answer to your question, but I did drop that once. Wolf of Wall Street.
- [46:40]
Greg Manakis
Yeah, the Wolf of Wall Street's great. I saw somebody put that in the chat earlier. I do think, like, for me, I don't know if this is what you had texted to Drew Will, but the junkyard dog is the one that. That I like. Just because there was a guy. I don't know if you remember this guy.
- [46:55]
Drew Carter
Drew.
- [46:56]
Greg Manakis
Scout probably remembers him. Jerome Williams. He played for the Pistons, and that was his nickname. And he kind of looks like Jordan Walsh. And they. They talked about. I think Walsh's college coach mentioned how he was like, a violent defensive player. Right. That's what you were going to get out of him. And junkyard dog just kind of, you know, he. What is a junkyard dog? It guards. It guards your. You know, And I think that's what Jordan Walsh is going to do. I like it. It just leans into me, wanting him to just be a little bit nastier. He's definitely been physical on defense, but I want him to mix it up a little bit. More so I'm hoping naming him the junkyard dog will actually like be a self fulfilling prophecy, inspire him to get a little bit more dirty.
- [47:39]
Drew Carter
Greg wants him to punch beef stew in the face next. I did, yeah.
- [47:45]
Will
Jordan Walsh, he's, he's aggressive, but he's not nasty. Like there's a difference between. Yeah, very aggressive. Yeah, but he, but, but he's not quite.
- [47:51]
Drew Carter
I will say, you know, you mentioned summer league and he had an elevated role in summer league. You know, third year guy, first round or early second round pick, you would expect that for him. He did have a time in summer league where he was nasty this year. You remember that he got tossed from a game and he was, yeah, two texts and he was kind of yelling on his way out. We saw a little nasty and I think that, that he's just, you know, coming out of his shell more and he's feeling more confident. He's still just 21, by the way. Like this this season has been remarkable to watch because I was with you guys, I didn't have expectations for him at all. You wrote him off, but Jordan Walsh didn't write back. Baby. He doesn't care that people wrote him off. Like what, what a year for him.
- [48:31]
Will
He's literally my favorite part of the season. He's becoming the main topic in all of my Celtics group chats where the other day and our, our friend Phil and I said, I, I got, I was just watching Jordan, I stopped watching the ball. I was just watching Jordan Walsh defend on ball, off ball. I was just following him the entire time. And now you're seeing little glimpses of his offense. And so, you know, you mentioned him kind of coming out of his shell. Drew, you've been with the Celtics the same timeline as Jordan Walsh. You started your first season doing all the away games while Gorman kind of had his victory lap at home. And now you're in your third season. He's in his third season. So tell me what have you seen? Like, tell us more about coming out of his shell other than obviously Greg and I get to see holy these last. He's now a full time starter and.
- [49:12]
Greg Manakis
We'Re one JV's Twitch stream.
- [49:15]
Will
Yeah. Getting asked if the carpet matches the drapes. And you know, so I'm curious to know, tell me more about what the evolution of Jordan Walsh that you've gotten to see first, Andrew.
- [49:27]
Drew Carter
Well, I'll just be honest. You know, the first couple years, you know, I was around Jordan Walsh, the, the most notable thing was some of the, the outfits he was wearing, like, this guy's got a different fashion sense. He was wearing like a Kevlar vest a few weeks ago on the, on the team bus. I'm like, yo, man, we're traveling in style here. I don't think you need to be wearing a vest. I think we're good. I think we're good. We have like 10 security guards. I think we're good. But it was a fashion statement, you know, so it's, it's. This is gonna sound a little bit weird, but it's almost like he's taken his, like, his off court Persona where he's a little bit different, a little bit quirky, he doesn't really care what people think, and applied it to the basketball court. That's why I say he's really, I think, come out of his shell. It's. It's like the Jordan Walsh who looks in the mirror and says, I look fly as hell and I don't care what anybody says is now playing like that. His, his endless energy, he has earned his spot in the rotation again. I give credit to Joe for giving him a shot. You know, he played sparingly his first couple years. Sparingly at the start of this season. Then he starts the second half in that game against Philly. And ever since he's been in the starting lineup, he just made it once. Joe gave him a chance, Jordan gave him no choice but to keep playing him consistently. And I'm with you, man, there are times where it's. It's really hard to take your eyes off of him because he is flying around. There are levels to how hard guys play in the NBA and playing hard is really a skill. I think you've seen teams put more emphasis on that even the last couple years, because everybody in the league is so skilled right now, and there's so much talent across the board, even like sixth, seventh, eighth man on the bench. Playing hard is a serious skill because that's how you separate yourself, and that's what Jordan has done, and it's both ends of the floor. There was a play in that Milwaukee game, whereas honestly, it was like Jordan Walsh teleported. He got a steal on one side. Two seconds later, he's 94ft away getting an and one. And I've just been amazed by his constant energy. In a league where the slightest level of, of difference in effort, if one guy's going 95, one guy's going 100, it's mathematically impossible to go 110. But Jordan is going 100 all the time. It makes a huge difference. And I'm just really happy for the guy, you know, because he. He has earned this. And, you know, give credit to the Celtics player development staff as well. But you see all the work that goes into it. For a guy like Jordan Walsh, who is preparing every day for the last two years, like he's gonna play and gonna start now. He finally gets a chance to do that. Yeah.
- [52:10]
Greg Manakis
And there's a whole bunch of guys on the team that play really hard. Derrick White, obviously, Jalen, Peyton Pritchard. And then you've got young wings on the team, right? And that's Hugo Gonzalez, Josh Mina, Baylor Scheireman plays really hard when he's out there. A lot of that comes from Joe, right, and his kind of philosophy and the doggedness that he brings to the team. But one thing I was just thinking about is like the. The internal competition amongst those young wings and how they're all. They must be inspiring each other to play harder and harder every single day. What have you seen in terms of just like their internal competitiveness kind of behind the scenes?
- [52:50]
Drew Carter
Well, just look at how the rotation has shaken out this year. Minot is starting at the beginning of the year. Ugo gets a spot start, then Jordan enters the starting lineup. And Minot had that quote about, you know, moving from the starting lineup to the bench. And it's like, well, you know, if you're. If you're poor and you give me 20, or if I'm poor and you give me $20 and then you take it away, it's like, I never really had it, you know. And that was how he looked at, you know, being in the starting lineup. There. There are going to be no handouts. I mean, it's the NBA. It's not like travel basketball where, you know, the coach is one of the kids dads and he's going to put them in there even if they don't play hard. This is. If you. If you're not busting your ass when you're out there, you're not gonna play. Even without Tatum, even without the guys we lost in the off season, you must play incredibly hard or else you're not gonna play. And I actually think that it's going to serve them well when JT does come back, you know, whenever that is that we found something with Jordan Walsh and Ugo Gonzalez and Josh Minot and. And the guy who's really exciting for me is Ugo. I mean, he's 19 years old. I think the talent is obvious. And, and one of those talents is playing really hard and he's not going to lose that as he, you know, gets more opportunity in the rotation. So I'm excited to see him blossom. Hopefully it's this year.
- [54:15]
Greg Manakis
And he's so physical too, man. Like he was. He boxed out beef stew a couple times on his own last night. They had him in the middle of the zone. His legs just seem like they're thick, man. Like he's, he's built for a 19 year old. So it'll be interesting to see how his body continues to fill out over the next few years. Kind of very similar to Denny Advies as a player. In my mind, like, I think they have a very similar body type. I could see him kind of turning into, turning into one of Scowl's guys, I think.
- [54:42]
Will
Real quick. Can I ask you a question about Ugo? Because I, I feel like he's very hard on himself because he constantly hits himself in the head whenever he makes a mistake. Like, like he does this very visibly, like anytime.
- [54:54]
Greg Manakis
Two big ones last night, back to.
- [54:55]
Will
Back, he made two big ones. But I mean, even, even when he makes smaller mistakes, you can see him kind of, kind of use that as a motivational tool. Does he seem like a guy that's very hard on himself, Drew?
- [55:03]
Drew Carter
Well, he's been a professional since he was nine years old, so, yeah, I think so.
- [55:07]
Will
The European guys that come over here as professionals, it's always so crazy when you, like I was like, even they were talking about Wemby, he's like, oh, he's been professional since he's 15. So he's a seven year vet at this point or eight years already. Like, it's crazy, right?
- [55:18]
Drew Carter
Yeah. So I think he's held himself to a high standard for a long time. Both of his parents were professional basketball players. So it's. That, that is not surprising. I also think, think that, you know, think about what we just talked about with the rotation. If you're not playing hard, you're not in there, you can make mistakes. As long as they're not mental mistakes or lack of effort mistakes. That's when you're going to get yanked. I think the, the time where you see Joe do the, the point of emphasis, as we were calling it in the preseason, where it's a quick hook for somebody is when they give up an offensive rebound. It's not, you know, an issue of, you know, maybe you were a little out of control or it's, you made a mistake because you were playing too hard. That's not going to get you pulled from the rotation. It's just when you're not playing hard enough. So, yeah, I think Ugo is hard on himself, but won't be punished for errors that come from him just playing too hard. Now, the one thing is he and Walsh both have to be smart because they only have six fouls and they can't pick up cheapies. And that happened last night with both of them. Now, the third quarter was weird because it seemed like they didn't call shit in the first half and then they called everything in the third quarter. So I, I, you know, don't really hold that against Jordan. A new go for picking up fouls then. But those guys, their role, and you can put mine out in here as well, they're going to need to be physical with the best player on the opposing team and you just can't have bad files. That's the one thing that those guys I feel like need to improve over the course of the season.
- [56:44]
Greg Manakis
Drew, we'll get you out of here in a second. One more guy I did want to talk about was Nemius Kato because in terms of playing hard, I feel like this year this is the first time Keda has been able to sustain the level of like, hard work that he typically would show for like three or four minutes and then he'd be gassed and have to take him out of the game. His cardio just wasn't at a professional level. But when you see him this year sprint down the court, play physical against a guy like Jalen Dern, box people out, contest at the rim, he, he's like the, his ability to change ends of the court, it stands out to me when I'm watching the game because previously I feel like he would, he would really be kind of. He has a funny gate when he runs, right. It's kind of like all limbs flying all over the place. But it seems like everything is a little bit more just like professional, for lack of a better word. Last night was the first time I texted that Neemius Keda kind of just reminded me of KG on that play. That was that huge dunk that he had when he ripped it through. I've never compared him to KG before, but like, I did it.
- [57:47]
Will
Andre into KG very quickly. Greg.
- [57:49]
Greg Manakis
Yeah, so just talk about your, your feelings towards K this year and what he's brought to the team.
- [57:56]
Drew Carter
I think he should be in the most improved player discussion, which is a hard, it's a hard award to win because you got guys across the league who are getting better and playing more. And typically it goes to somebody whose minutes went up and they're early in their career and their stats like doubled. But to me, first of all, we need Keda to be really good and an advanced metric darling. Especially with the way we're playing right now where he's really the only big. The Celtics are putting on the floor for an entire game. So that's one. He's got a lot of responsibility, so it is important for him to be in great shape. And I'm with you, I think he's in the best shape we've seen of his career. Defensively, his numbers are ridiculous. If you look at best individual defensive rating in the NBA, the top 10 is like nine guys from Oklahoma City. And then Neemi, like he is, he's been elite. Defensively, when we play the small lineup, our offense is off the charts, but our defense is not very good at this point of the season. So we need Keda to protect the rim, control the paint and be massive, literally defensively when he's out there, because for those 24 minutes, that's when we need to get stops and he is just, he's answered the call. Man, I was so excited. He was one of my favorite players the last two years. Just because he's got an interesting story. First Portuguese player in NBA history, wears a cool number 88. Like he's a, he's really a chill guy away from the floor. And I was just excited because I felt like there was so much in there that we just hadn't had a chance to see. And then you think about how. Sorry, I'm getting a Spam call here. That's, that's my cousin Spam calling me right here. I'll call them back later. But to me, like Keda, just seeing him blossom has been one of my favorite parts of this season. And it's amazing to think his career trajectory. This is a guy who was waived by the Sacramento Kings and now, and now he's the starting center for the Celtics and we're like one of the better teams in the east. He just deserves so much credit. I think, you know, I compare him not in terms of his game, but his development to Luke Cornett. I mean, Luke Cornett is a guy who was in and out of the league. He was a two way guy. He was hanging on by a thread, gets in the Celtics system, improves his athleticism. His feel for the game is so good. Celtics give him a chance to be a rotational big and then he signs a big deal in San Antonio. And now he's like a real rotational big in the league. And the Celtics, you guys talked about reads earlier. That's really what they emphasize with their player development. It's not, you know, getting your bag, dribble, dribble, jab, step back, cha cha, slide three. It's okay. Here's the situation. You got to make a read in a split second. And that's where Neemi has improved immensely even from the start of the season, where, you know, that, that play where he, he caught the ball and realized, you know, there was no one in the lane. He starts dribbling at the three point line. How many times have we seen that in his career? Almost never. And, and moving the ball and, and he's a big reason why the Celtics have improved as a passing team over the course of the season. He, he is just leveling up in front of our. It's like Neo in the Matrix. Like he is getting it faster and faster. So that's why I say he should be in the, in the most improved player mix this year.
- [61:08]
Will
Yeah, Nemi has been a revelation. I think the Celtics development staff in general, it just gets kind of a little underappreciated. Although we talked about this in the last episode, the Athletic had an article where they were ranked the second best front office in all the basketball behind Oklahoma City. And I think development has quite a bit to do with that. Drew, we'll get you out of here on this. You've. Now, this is year three. You here with the Celtics. You mentioned you're not from Boston, but you've been in the city long enough now. I want to ask you, are you starting to feel like a Bostonian?
- [61:37]
Drew Carter
Yeah. Greg, who's behind you, by the way? Just, I, I got.
- [61:40]
Greg Manakis
Oh, that's my dog.
- [61:42]
Drew Carter
What's up?
- [61:43]
Greg Manakis
My dog Blaze. Yeah, he's 13 and a half year old. Pit bull.
- [61:47]
Drew Carter
Adorable. That is the fourth member of the podcast today. Yeah, I, I do sort of feel like that, you know, there was. But the cool thing is it still feels like new and fresh to me. It hasn't, it hasn't worn off the fact that I actually live in Boston, which is a place I always wanted to live. I got family from this area. You know, my grandma was in Duxbury when, when I was growing up. My aunt lives in Quincy. She has for my entire life. My family used to live in Norwell, down the South Shore when, when I was one to two year old. So I don't really remember that. But what I've always wanted to live in Boston. And I was walking around the other day, and it was snowing a lot here. You guys are soft now. Living in Texas, you don't understand what snow even looks.
- [62:28]
Will
Honestly, I would. I would take offense to that, but it's 100 factual, so I know I can't take it.
- [62:33]
Drew Carter
I know it's true. Take it. For me, I grew up in Minnesota and then lived in Alabama for two years and softened up a little bit. But now that I'm back in a cold city, it happens quickly. I feel. Yeah, I feel like my. My blood is. Is getting a little thicker now and. And I was walking around, it was snowing. I was listening to some Christmas music, and I'm like, damn, this place kicks ass. Like, I, I. I love living here. Obviously, there's so much to do. The best part about being in Boston, at least for my purpose, is people just love sports here. Like, there is a really high give a shit level for all of our teams. And the Pats are really good right now. You know, the Red Sox had a decent season last year. The Bruins are okay. But. But it's been a Celtics town for, you know, really ever since I got here, and it's just been so fun to, you know, be a small part of the Celtics family. And it's. It's reached the point now where everywhere I go, you know, people come up to me and talk about the team, and I just. I think that's really fun. So, yeah, I love living here. I'm still getting used to the whole driving here thing, so maybe I'm not a Bostonian from that perspective, but, like, this is home now, and hopefully it will be for the rest of my career.
- [63:39]
Will
Career.
- [63:39]
Greg Manakis
Yeah. Oh, sorry.
- [63:42]
Drew Carter
Well, go ahead.
- [63:42]
Will
I said, do you have a favorite? Hey, Drew. Some guy just kind of shouts you out, like from the sandwich. Yeah. Hey, Kata, come here, come here, come here. Let me tell you, you have a favorite moment of that that sticks out to you.
- [63:55]
Drew Carter
Yeah. My first season, I was hanging around the. The post game show. We had the set on the concourse at the Garden, and I hear from behind me, new announcer, New announcer. I looked back, and there was this nice guy, and I took a picture, and it was. It was cool. That was like.
- [64:12]
Greg Manakis
I love that. Oh, that's so great. Do you ever. So we have a buddy. He's. Oh, he's a Wahlberg. Brandon Wahlberg.
- [64:20]
Will
Do you ever.
- [64:20]
Greg Manakis
Do you ever talk to Donnie with his nephew?
- [64:24]
Drew Carter
I have not spoken to Donnie. I don't think.
- [64:27]
Greg Manakis
Okay. Okay. If you if you ever see them, say, what's up to Brandon. He's. He's always with Donnie, but he has, like, the most Boston accent ever. He's such a funny kid. But, yeah, he's. He's a funny dude. You said people are recognizing you right now. Are you recognizable enough to get on one of JB's streams?
- [64:44]
Drew Carter
Well, when I was telling that story about Media Day, when I went to find him and apologize for the question, he was streaming on Twitch at that time, and I didn't really want it to be, like, public. I just wanted to talk to him, you know, one on one. But I was on the Twitch stream, and Jalen Brown clips put it on Instagram, which I thought was pretty cool. I was like, man, it's. It's a big deal. Like, I get to be on. On JB's Twitch, but I'd love to go back on there. I mean, it's no green with envy, but it would be. It would be pretty neat to go on there.
- [65:12]
Will
We would. We would open ourselves to a collab if JB asked, you know, we. We'd. We'd. We'd humble ourselves enough to do it so you can pass that message along. Yeah.
- [65:20]
Drew Carter
What happened.
- [65:21]
Greg Manakis
What happened to the whole Drew can dunk bit that you were working on? Are we not doing that anymore?
- [65:25]
Drew Carter
Well, I do have a training plan, but I kind of got sidetracked by running the marathon, which I'm doing again, by the way, so.
- [65:31]
Will
All right, let us know. We'll. If you guys. If you're raising any money, let us know. We'll.
- [65:35]
Drew Carter
Yeah, I am. Yeah, we're gonna do some plugs.
- [65:37]
Will
This is.
- [65:37]
Drew Carter
I think it's seven days of giving right now, so gonna try to plug something on the broadcast on Friday, so everyone stay tuned. And then once we beat the Heat on the post game show, we'll just start raising money for the marathon.
- [65:50]
Will
All right. Well, I love it. Drew. Drew, we appreciate you being so good to us, man, taking some time out of your day here. I know you got some holiday plans with your lady here just a little bit, so we're gonna let you go so you can get to it. But we'll be looking forward. We'll see you on the broadcast for both games this week, right, For Miami and Toronto coming up on Friday, Saturday. Drew, thank you for being here, man. We appreciate it. And for everybody locking in with us here, whether you're live on YouTube, listen to it afterwards, wherever it is that you listen to, to podcasts, we appreciate you guys rocking with us. Have a great rest of your week and we will catch you guys later. It don't take much, no more.
- [66:33]
Drew Carter
Until.
- [66:33]
Will
I hit the floor.
- [66:36]
Drew Carter
Every time I hit this high it's you I find it don't take much, no more.
- [66:44]
Will
Until I'm at your dark.
- [66:48]
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