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Will
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Will
This is Mike Gorman and you're listening
Greg
to Green With Envy with Will and Greg. All right everybody, Jalen Brown, he had some comments after the season ends. He had a live Twitch stream one on Sunday and he's actually live streaming right now. We were gonna wait till afterwards. I thought KG was coming on, but I don't know. We'll keep an eye on that. We've got some more comments just on the beginning of his current stream. And then earlier today as we're recording this here on a Wednesday night, Brad Stevens had a press conference with some pretty interesting thoughts given some of the other comments from Celtics players and coaches over the last couple of days. And then we' check in on what's happening in the NBA playoffs. Since we're not there, we'll check in on those that are. So it's Green with Envy. You guys know the deal. Let's lock in. Welcome into another edition edition of Green with Envy. As always, we're checking in. How you doing? How you living Kind of doing I guess. What is the closest we can do to a post game live stream? We're doing a what was supposed to be a post Twitch live stream of a live stream. We're getting super Matter on you guys now. Live streaming of a live stream. But we're coming at you here because there is no off season for us yet. We're still plugging along. As always, your boy Will Weird. How you doing? How you living? Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Manakis. Greg, we were waiting to see what Jaylen was going to say in his latest stream. And the main takeaway that I have from the, the parts that I saw are have you seen the Michael Jackson movie yet?
Will
It's good, man. Michael Jackson was that.
Greg
Dude, dude. I was literally eating my dinner while I was, I was like, oh, let me just like know, try to put the baby to bed. I missed the first couple minutes. Let me catch up. And 90% of what I saw is just him talking about the Michael Jackson movie going, yeah, it was good. Michael Jackson's like, what are we doing? What are we talking about?
Will
He inspired his dunk comp contest performance.
Greg
Well, you didn't know where he got booed. That's true. We learned, we learned some new information. But you didn't know that. Well, I, I guess I, I forgot about. I mean I honestly, I've tried to block out Jaylen's dunk contest performance because it was pretty bad when he said it, I was like, oh yeah, he did do the whole Glo and then he talked about the Kaisana and it's supposed to be like streaming and multiple because honestly like Kai's like five, five. It's like that's not that impressive to jump over him compared to like other dunks that we've seen where guys jump, jump over Shaq and Dwight. Like it's like, I don't know man. It's like a two foot difference in some of these guys that, that get jumped over. So it made more sense now that he was talking about pivoting last minute. But we don't need to go back and rehash that, that particular dunk contest in this episode. You know, obviously Celtics are out so we don't have any games to talk about. But plenty of commentary around Jalen's original stream from Sunday Brad Stevens press conference. And we've got our eyes on Knicks and Sixers which are in a close one right now in the third quarter. Knicks down by two with about just under eight minutes to go. Greg, let's start with what everyone has been talking about and feels like it has already laid the groundwork for what is going on to be one of the biggest topics of this offseason. Not just in Celtics verse, but I think it's going to connect to almost everywhere else across the NBA. Anyone that's going to make a move. Celtics are going to be connected to a lot of rumors coming up here in the off season and Jalen Brown's Twitch stream on Sunday, it made some shock waves. So let's just start with there was a couple big, you know, big pieces that came out of it. But what's, what's the first part of it that jumped out to you or, or that you want to talk about?
Will
I want, I want to address what he said tonight straight off the jump.
Greg
I don't know that addresses his original stream anyway, so go for it.
Will
So this is based off of Tracy McGrady's reported comments where he said Jaylen Brown has expressed to him personally and privately that there's a growing level of frustration between JB and the organization. JB went on Twitch tonight, immediately addressed that. His comment was, I hate that our president of basketball operations even had to respond to this. Me and Brad have a great relationship. I love Boston. If it was up to me, I could play here for the next 10 years. I hope that this quote right here is all anybody talks about for the next 24 to 48 hours. Because if you're just like pulling random parts of a Twitch stream, you could bring up any narrative you want. Because as we found out, Jalen Brown just rambles for 30 minutes and he doesn't really have a point. He's talking about. That's what Will and I learned today. But this particular point I think was the most pressing comment that I wanted to see addressed. Aside from him potentially talking to KG and just them acting a fool. I wanted to see him address these comments from tmac. I think this is, this addresses it. This clears it up. Jalen is fine with the organization, all the, the hoopla around him in, in the Boston media and everything, it's overblown. They just want to find someone to scapegoat. They want to find somebody to villainize. And Jaylen Brown has always been that guy that the Boston media wants to villainize. So to me, this was the, the most salient thing that I saw in 30 minutes that I watched.
Greg
So the only thing that I would keep in mind and I, I agree with just about everything that you just said is tmac. Like, it's interesting tmac put that out there. And one thing that we do know is outside of, of the streams, is that Jalen Brown and T. Mac do have a relationship like TMAC has been. I don't, I don't know if I'd call him a mentor. I think I saw that labeled somewhere. I don't know if it's quite mentor mental. I don't know to what level T. Mac and Jalen Brown have a relationship, but they do, they do have some type of off court personal relationship. So, I mean, because I think this is Going to be. This is going to be a very interesting off season. Right? It's shaping up already. Be a very interesting off season, like, depending on what happens. Depending on, like, I think it's something to at least keep in the back of the mind because, you know, Jalen Brown, we have to keep in mind this stream follows a stream that had probably actually more reactions to it than he. Maybe he even thought was gonna happen from it. Right. And so now it's like. And I'm not saying he was walking anything back, because that's something I got to give jb. I think everyone has to give JBL credit where he stands on what he says. Right. Like, when he says it, he backs it up. And I think that was one of the things that stood out to me is, like, even if you didn't agree with some of the stuff that he was saying, which I didn't, I appreciate the authenticity. He's authenticious. Right? The authenticity comes through with, like, the
Will
other one who got it all up. I was being authenticious.
Greg
Like, I appreciate that, you know, Bostonians in general appreciate someone that doesn't feel fake. And I think that's part of Jalen's connection to Boston. And so therefore, I'm willing to take everything he said at the beginning of that stream at face value for what it is. Right. All I'm saying is him and TMAC have a personal relationship. There could be conversations that. That we don't know about, of course.
Will
Well, I mean, just. Just to jump in there, like, they have a very close relationship. TMAC was in the news this year because TMAC was the one who steered Jaylen towards staying in Boston five years ago. Right. Like, that was the whole reason why the. The TMAC and JB relationship and the mentor mentee thing even, like, made rounds in the first place. So when we know historically TMAC has influenced Jaylen Brown to, like, appreciate his time in Boston, it is concerning when tmac, who now has a platform, which. That has changed. Right. TMAC didn't have a platform five years ago, seven years ago, whenever that those comments were. Now he does, and he's. He's podcasting with his cousin Vince Carter. He's on broadcast television. So you're going to hear more from TMac. Maybe he just kind of spoke out of pocket. Not a turn there. I'm wondering if Jalen in. In him just, like, kind of clear that up. And I'm wondering in the next 24 to 48 if TMAC clarifies that.
Greg
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what TMAC says after that. Given. Given both. Not just Jalen's comments, but they're them matching up with what Brad Stevens had said about, hey, we have a good relationship. We talked this morning. It was brief, but there's. There's nothing to see here. Right. So though what Brad said this morning and what Jalen said this evening really matches up. So we'll see. It could be a little bit of PR or it could be TMAC walking it back. We'll. We'll see. The other comments that I think really kind of jumped out from Jalen's original stream, there were two sides of this, right? There was one, him talking about Embiid and flopping, for which he was fined $50,000 by the NBA. Did you catch Donovan Mitchell's comments after the Pistons game last night?
Will
Yeah. Donovan Mitchell said in his press conference that he's not a flopper, and one of his friends just got fined $50,000 for talking about flopping. And we all know that Donovan Mitchell and Jaylen Brown are close friends.
Greg
Yeah, I thought that was really good. I really enjoyed that from Double. You know, I'm not gonna say anything, but a friend of mine, you know, whoever that could be. So that was. That was one of the big comments that came out of it was Joel Embiid and the flopping and the inconsistencies in the repping, which led to the fine. And then the second biggest thing that. That came out of that was Jaylen Brown saying that this is his favorite season of his career, despite two years ago winning a championship, finals mvp, all the other accolades that came with it. Which of those two do you want? Do you want to dive into first and take a bite of Greg?
Will
That's more fun to make fun of Joel Embiid and Flopper. So let's start there with the fun stuff, and then we'll get into the stuff that I find kind of annoying, and we'll talk about why I find it annoying in a second. But the more annoying thing is Joel Embiid's flopping the league. Just like, not, you know, you talk about Jalen Brown standing on business and backing up what they say the league said two years ago they're going to put an end to flopping. And that lasted for all of, like, two weeks in the regular season. And we, we got the new. Yeah, we got the new, you know, 13 on the table, whatever that is.
Greg
And then it's a great. It's unfortunate they don't call it enough because it's really Fun when they do it because they bust it out like, once every. I feel like I start, like four times this year. So once a quarter, basically like a quarter of the season, and I'm just like, oh, it's a flop. They're calling it. Like, it's an exciting moment. It's almost.
Will
It should be foul. It should be like a delay a game. It should be something. There needs to be some consequence for all the. That Joel Embiid does all the. That sga, Jalen Brunson, all these dudes that we know flop and that we've all just become accustomed to, but also just like, so utterly dismayed anytime we have to watch them play basketball because, like, we're just going to watch 48 minutes of them hunting for fouls where they stop playing the game of basketball and they start playing the game of flopping. And that's just not fun to watch as. As a consumer. And I think Jaylen Brown's 100% correct when he goes on stream and he says that this has ruined the game and it has ruined the game. It has ruined the product. Because I would much rather watch Joellen Bead have to, like, get it out the mud than Joellen Bead, like, roll around in the mud and act like he just got shot. Yes.
Greg
So the best part about all of this is that immediately Jalen was vindicated because there were so many flops the next night.
Will
It was like, the worst basketball ever.
Greg
Yeah. Right. So here's the thing. What Jalen said in the stream, and this is beyond just this point, a lot of stuff he just said was facts, like the flopping, especially Embiid being one of the most notorious floppers. I like that he said and be knows it. Like, he's like, I'm. He's like, he's a great basketball player, but he flops and he knows it. And so I really appreciate that part of. Of Jalen Brown. There's like, that is true. Like, there's nothing different about that. And I think, like, you know, we've talked about immediately, like, you know, I. I think Jalen does commit offensive fouls, but I think also. So does Shay also do other guys that. That. That push off. And, you know, it's. It is inconsistent. I don't know how much I buy into Jalen's conspiracy talk. You got to find me a little bit more evidence that he has a specific conspiracy against him. But we'll see. We'll let him improve that.
Will
I'm sure that's the vestiges of the Kyrie influence.
Greg
Yeah, there's, yeah, the Illuminati are working against Jaylen Brown behind the scenes to to call his offensive foul. So I, you know, I don' about that. I mean the only thing about. Because a lot of this is facts. A lot of this is just pure facts.
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Greg
Just honestly, as a fan, like, you guys just lost a 31 lead and lost three games at home. Like in Joel Embiid flops. Joel Embiid flopping is not why they lost that, that series. Right. So that's the only part that frustrated me. And you know, we'll get to, I think how Brad's comments compare to Jaylen and Missoula's comments. I think they were interestingly different. Like the tone of them in, in my opinion, I, I think it's, it's kind of fascinating. But you know, I, I walked away just being like, cool. Like, yeah, the Sixers were good and Bead came back and you know, you bitched about him flopping. But like that series was there to win. And so I just don't want to hear you complaining about flopping when you guys just lost three home games to yes, they're not a typical seven seed but. And you guys aren't a typical two seed. But that gate. But that series was there to win. It was there to win multiple times. Like, not just like that one thing that could have gone like there was so many things that could have been been done differently. Some of it on Joe Missoula side, some of it on the player side. Right. And if those things are different Then, you know, the Sellers are playing tonight, and we're. We're waiting to. To do a live stream after game two. So I think just as a fan hearing Jalen Brown go on and on about, you know, calls that actually, in my opinion, didn't influence the series. And he admitted and beasted them, like he said. He said it multiple times. It's. I don't know. That part just came off as a little bit whiny to me, despite the fact that he's correct about what he's saying. He's not wrong, but it came off as whiny to me.
Will
I think it was. It was two different things. I think he was making one argument that, like, the referees are inconsistent. He doesn't like flopping. It has to do with the offensive fouls Joel Embiid played in that series. He had a huge impact. So I think the Embiid thing was more in the context of the ref conspiracy and how he gets a bad whistle. And then secondarily, I think he gave the Sixers all the credit in the world. And I think if you watch the stream tonight, he once again backed up. He said, listen, I'll say it again. The Sixers played better than us. They deserve to win. Joel Embiid was a problem. We couldn't guard him, and he was like, I. I could have had more points. He's. I could have dropped 40. I could have got a couple more rebounds. I could have had less turnovers. I could have made more shots. I didn't. I own that. That's the accountability that I need to take as the leader of this team. He said that on stream. So, like, I. I just think when things get clipped out and you are not watching them chronologically and you're only watching them on your feed now, you're starting to try to piece together the puzzle without having the full picture, right? And I think that's when things. People just take narratives. That's when the text message and the group messages get sent out where everyone's like, oh, like JB whining Again, like, all that stuff, you have to. You have to see it in context. But if JB can go on stream and be emotional like, he. And. And we all have to realize that we're all human beings. And that's kind of the whole point of JB streaming in the first place, is to kind of show his humanity and away from the media narratives, right? And away from, like, a polished pr Jalen Brown, he's like, this is just gonna be me. And fans are Just going to be fans. They're going to talk in group messages. It doesn't mean that, you know, we're now out on jb. Like, you're allowed to react. You're allowed to be emotional. And players shouldn't hold that against fans for when they, when they post stuff online. But I think that's literally the whole point of the streaming and the whole point of the players Tribune. And you know, there have been different iterations of this where players just want to have their voice away from the, the PR machine.
Greg
Yeah. Luke Cornett has his blog. You know, everybody has their own outlet that they, that they choose to go to. So it, it is a new age where everyone has their own outlet to go to. And so, you know, again, I, I think for me personally, I appreciate how authentic that Jaylen Brown is and that he shares these thoughts. It's unique, right? You don't always get that insider thought. Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with some of the stuff he says. So it, it's right on both sides. Yeah.
Will
Let's talk about the favorite se. The favorite season comment. So he addressed that again tonight on
Greg
this part at the beginning. So, so enlighten me.
Will
Okay. So his whole thesis was that it was his favorite season because of the fact that they were counted out at the beginning of the season. He got a chance to be a leader and he got to see his guys grow. He referenced one of his favorite parts of the season was Jason Tatum's ability to bounce back from the injury. He referenced Tatum by name. He said seeing him fight through the adversity was part of the reason why it was his favorite season to see grow in that capacity. Hey, everybody. Jason Tatum tearing his Achilles was last season. It wasn't part of this season. The recovery was part of this season. He talked about Neemi, talked about Ugo, Jordan, Walsh, like all these guys that he got to see level up. That's why he appreciated this season more. He even referenced the championship season. He, he said this, it's not by far his favorite season because he won a championship two years ago and that was special. He said this was his favorite season because if you know anything about Jalen Brown, faith, consistency, hard work, payoff, right? That is his whole ethos and that is why he said this was his favorite season is because they had the faith in each other. They had the hard work, they had the consistency. And it paid off in 56 wins and a two seed in, in the Eastern Conference. Right. It makes sense when you like, understand Who Jalen Brown is as a person and what makes him tick. It makes sense as to why he would characterize this as his favorite season. You like. You don't have to like it. I. I don't necessarily like it, but I understand it just because, you know, I would like him just to, you know, hold those comments for. For a different day. But it's not about. It is about Jason Tatum. Right. And their relationship, which I think is overblown. But it's also about the other 13 guys on the roster. And anytime you talk about the Celtics and Jaylen Brown, people always forget that there are 13 other guys in an entire organization. There only focus on the one other guy that's his. His running mate.
Greg
Yeah, I, I mean, with the. So it's interesting, like, him clarifying. I. I feel like anyone that. And maybe we're just two in the weeds. I felt like I kind of knew what he meant without him even having to clarify.
Will
Same.
Greg
Right. Like. Like, it didn't like to me, I was like, ah, it's, you know, as guys that talk into a mic a lot. And I rarely listen back to our podcast. Sometimes I do if I'm like, I wonder if, like, I went on this
Will
ramble when I need to fall asleep at Put it under my pillow and listen to Will solo podcast.
Greg
That's right. That's right. This is how Greg falls asleep. Everybody just. Just isolates my, my audio and any. Any solos that I do. But, you know, I rarely listen back to it. Every once while I'll be like, I wonder if what I said is what I actually wanted to say.
Will
Right.
Greg
Because, you know, and. And I saw Jason, Tim, and I can't remember who he was talking with. With. We're kind of having a more nuanced version of what you get from the clips of First Take and whatever the FS1 show is. And basically he was like, words are hard. Like, they're hard in the moment to put together. And there's times where, you know, especially, you know, shout out to our guy Alex. Like, he does a great job taking clips of the show and it's, you know, here's what we think people are going to be interested in that we get them to hopefully to a point that you made earlier, tune into our broader context of whatever that we're talking about. And sometimes it just doesn't come out the way you mean it.
Will
Yeah.
Greg
Like, it's like it's. It just doesn't.
Will
Like, I'm like, oh, Alex. So you had to pick that 30 seconds of me bumbling around like an idiot.
Greg
But then we get 30 comments, and you're like, okay, I guess that works. Like that. That. That. That's the engagement that you're looking for. And. And so as someone who. Who's similar to Jay. No, we're not similar to the round, but we. We talk into a microphone and we don't have a script. Like, sometimes you just don't word it or give the context you need, or sometimes you get too long when you're like, okay, I'm gonna be more concise. And then you leave out stuff that you want to say. Like, that happens all the time. And that's how I originally interpreted Jalen's comments, because I think about it from a fan perspective you and I have talked about. Yeah, this season was way more fun as a fan than last season. Like, last season, if everyone's healthy like, that. That team was better than this team, and that team had a higher ceiling than what. What this team did at any point, right? When you just look at the. The guys that were on the team and what. What could have been, now we know for a bunch of reasons, age, pots, whatever else, that was never gonna happen. And so, you know, like. Like, from that sense, I'm like, yeah, I get it. Like, I. I understand, like, that point of, like, exceeding these expectations that everybody put on you. And even though you didn't get the final result, like, the process was so much more fun. The process of this season for us was so much more fun than the drudge that it felt like at times to just get to the diminished ending of Jason Tatum getting hurt and us is having to talk about, you know, how disappointing this next season was going to be. And it turned out to be one of the funnest seasons that we've done as a podcast duo. So, like, Jalen Rose rule, will I get it?
Will
Jalen Rose rule, success.
Greg
So I get it.
Will
Realistic expectations, 100.
Greg
And that's. And that's what I think Jalen was saying. The only thing is, like, to your point, there's no way of saying that. Like, it's a little bit tone deaf, maybe I think is probably the right word. Like, there's a. Like, the way that you said that with everything that happened, with the context of losing the 31 lead, three games at home, Jason Tatum being out for so long in the season, Jason Tatum being out for. You get to get a chance to be the man in. In. In game seven. Like, it's really hard to look at that even with the broader context Which I tried to do and not be like, I could see how people interpret this as, like, a slight. Like, it makes sense.
Will
And for those of you that were upset about Jalen saying it was his favorite season, just go check your text messages. Did you ever text your friends that this season was more fun than last season and that this was one of your favorite Celtics teams of all time? Because I have those receipts, right? I. I said that many times, and I've said this on the podcast, and I said it in group messages. So I totally get what he's saying. If you don't like the. The timing in which he said it, you don't like the forum in which he shared those responses, like, tough man. Like, that's how Jalen Brown shares his thoughts. So, like, if you don't like it, don't listen, you know? But, yeah, I mean, I think overall that was a really good point. I. I hadn't considered that. We've said that multiple times as well, so I think that's really well said by you.
Greg
Yeah. So I think that's, you know, for Jalen Brown, it's. It's interesting because I. I think those comments. And we'll see how people feel after the stream tonight, if that changes it. But it felt like from. I think. What was that stream Sunday. Tonight's Wednesday night. A lot of. A lot of people just like, all right, fire up the trade machine. Like, it's. It's the end of the Jalen Brown era. And while I think this is going to lead us into to Brad Stevens comments today, while I do think that the potential of this being the end of the Jays era is honestly probably more likely this summer than I think it's ever actually been. Like, if I'm being really honest, like, yeah, a lot of the other times, yeah, you can flirt with the idea of it. The Kevin Durant, you know, for Jalen a couple years ago, maybe, like. But outside of that, I don't think there's ever really been a time where it's like, this actually would have made sense. Right now is the time where I think you do have to consider everything. And, you know, in Brad Stevens presser this morning, which was kind of his end of season presser, one of the continuous themes that he kind of said throughout this team's not good enough. This roster is not good enough. And it felt like Brad was taking that to heart. Right? Like, it's on me. Like, I'm the guy that builds the roster, they coach, they play, but I got to get the right Guys to play, for Joe to coach. And it really felt like leaving Brad Stevens press conference that anything is possible. You combine it with, with these, you know, first comments from Jalen Brown and everyone's on edge. And I think almost to a degree, justifiably so.
Will
Yeah, Stevens, I think he was like more fired up than I had seen him in quite some time. And you know, I haven't had all the time in the world to watch every Brad Stevens press conference over the past 12 months. But he was like, very direct, very candid in his responses. He seemed clearly that he was frustrated with the result of the season, but he kind of understood it and he had the receipts to back up why he understood it, namely referencing their performance against the top teams in the league where they were 3 and 11 against the, I think the top two in the west and the top two in the east or something like that. Something like that, yeah. So he knew that this team wasn't as good as, as the record may have showed because he also referenced how many teams in the league were tanking. And he's like, yo, Brad Stevens doesn't say yo. But he said, he said, listen, it'd
Greg
be funny if he busted that out all of a sudden.
Will
Listen, everybody, there were so many teams that were tanking this year. It's not going to be the case next year. So he said, next year you're going to find out how good teams really are because they're not going to have cupcake games built in, into their, into their schedule. So going into that next year, you have to wonder what changes you think they're going to make. One of the things he said, they need more rim pressure. Thank God he understands that because it didn't seem like Joe Missoula did.
Greg
Greg, you know, who solves a lot of a rim pressure problem, you know, who's a guy out there that I think solves the rim pressure problem pretty, pretty quickly. Do you know, did you know that friend of mine who I'm, who I'm
Will
talking about, is he 6 foot 11, Nigerian Greek freak?
Greg
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Will
That.
Greg
I mean, listen, without reading through the lines, it's like I saw some of Brad's comments. I'm like, okay, maybe, maybe this, this JB Giannis chatter that is, you know, circulating, that is speculating out there. I'm like, Brad's. Brad seems to talk the language of a guy who, it's like, oh, that's, that's kind of the guy Brad would go for. And you know, we'll, we'll dive into that later. But you know, I think with Brad, one of the interesting things that he had to say that really went against everything Missoula had said was Talking about Game 7 this series and even last couple seasons seasons where he talked about Brad Stevens, said, I thought we really struggled to generate good looks against Philly. I thought they deserved to win. And he talked about how they've struggled to generate those looks in and he listed out every playoff series that he, that he thought that we couldn't like. He was very specific about the the playoff series, talking about the Knicks, talked about the Magic last year, talked about, you know, the two years before that as well, or the the Heat series a couple years ago. And so Zack Cox, who's from from Nessen, he highlighted exactly the quote. So that was Brad Stevens today. I thought we really struggled to generate good looks against Philly. I thought they deserved a win. Here's Missoula after game two, five, six and seven. Game two I thought we got great looks. We missed them. Missoula after game 5 just missed some shots. Thought we got some good looks. We weren't able to capitalize on them. Missoula after game six we had some great looks in the beginning of the game that we didn't knock down and I thought just kind of lost our offensive field after that. Missoula after Game seven. I love the looks we got.
Will
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Greg
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Will
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Greg
Really interesting to hear your president of basketball operations come out and and basically go directly against you know what your head coach had said all postseason. And interesting when you look at how low In Joe Missoula's offense, the pressure at the rim rate is, and we've talked about it before, he talks about it compromising your defense and he's basically, unless it's like a pure layup, nobody around. He'd almost rather like a jump shot or a three point shot, obviously. So hearing this kind of conflicting views from president of basketball and the head coach, it's something. I don't know, I'm curious.
Will
Organizational friction. Yeah. Lack of continuity there. I do think Stevens, he did add a little bit more context with that where he said he thought that the looks that they got that were great often came off of offensive rebounds. And that's why Philly won the series is because in Games 5, 6 and 7, they really cleaned up the board. So all those great looks that Missoula was referencing maybe could have been in reference to some of the offensive rebounds that led to wide open threes. Stevens, his comments being about the first,
Greg
they struggled to generate the first look many times is what is what he is what said.
Will
And you know, and that's what we were complaining about at in games five, six and seven. We're like, where are the energy guys that have been getting the offensive rebounds? It's not just that Philly is like boxing out and doing better rebounding. You're not playing the guys who have been getting those offensive rebounds all season in the Baylor Shiremans, the Jordan Walshes, the Ugo Gonzalezs, the Luca Garzas. We've talked about it a million times. They just weren't on the court. So it was frustrating. It was frustrating to hear that from, from Brad. And it just shows you how stubborn Joe Missoula is in his philosophy. And that ultimately could be his, his fatal flaw. Right. It could be that Joe Missoula is too stubborn to, you know, just put out a product or put out a team that can win four rounds of basketball against fully healthy basketball teams.
Greg
Yeah, it's, it's going to be an interesting off season, man. I, I think Brad's comments leave it pretty open to like we talked about, like, I think everything's on the table. I think again, I think Jason Tatum is not on the table, but I think everything else is at least a consideration and is on the table. Because Mizzou, excuse me, Brad Stevens basically just said like we have to make a better roster like that. That seemed like a non negotiable.
Will
Can I ask you a question?
Greg
Yes.
Will
Because you keep saying Jason Tatum's not on the table. And I don't disagree with You, I don't disagree with you. What would it take for Jason Tatum to be on the table in your eyes?
Greg
You know, I thought about this after you and I briefly kind of exchanged thoughts on this last podcast, and it's interesting because it's basically whatever you're going to get offered for Jalen. It, it's really hard with these big contracts to really make that different of an offer. Right. So it's, it's probably going to be pretty similar. The biggest thing would be, like, maybe you get one more draft pick because it's Tatum versus Brown, right? Like, like salary wise, it's basically gonna have to be the same. Whatever you're gonna get for Jalen, you're gonna get the same for Tatum, like, salary wise. And like, if you look at player wise, like, I don't know who would jump up into that conversation. So it's. I think it's really difficult to answer. Like, I'm giving you a non answer because I, I don't know what that is. I just think it will. Especially the Will special.
Will
Exactly.
Greg
Hey, listen, I'm learning from Jalen. Just keep rambling and eventually maybe people will tune in, subscribe. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe that's just the key. Just hit that subscribe button. What do you think? Chat. Let's get it going. In the chat. Let's get it going. Who do you, who, who do you guys want to see Jason Tatum traded for? Let's, let's, let's, let's, let's.
Will
Yeah. I mean, hey, listen, man. I mean, we can learn a lot from Jalen Brown's stream and how he interacts with the people, so.
Greg
Well, let me put, let me flip it back to you. What? What? Because, like, I, I think the packages are gonna be very similar. Like I said, I think it's a draft pick difference. Is there, like, difference?
Will
And yet you would only have Jalen Brown on the table and not Jason Tatum.
Greg
Yeah, I think Jason's better than Jalen Brown. Like, I think Jason Tatum's better to build around.
Will
Only, only a draft pick difference, though. That's. I, I would have assumed you would, you would think, like, the Jason Tatum package would be two extra draft picks in a better player within that salary.
Greg
I mean, he is still coming off an injury, right? So I think that's factored into it as well. I mean, my question for you would be like, so, because Giannis and Jalen are going to be connected, right? Like, so if you're trading Tatum, it's. Giannis is connected as well too. Like there's only like two other guys that are better than. Yeah, it's like the entire league and they're not getting traded. So I just don't know like where else the other player that's going to be different in this. And so it's just going to come down to if you're trading Jalen Brown for two guys and like three picks, do you trade him for two? Trade Jason Tatum for two guys and four picks in a swap or something like it. Like that's the material difference in Jason trade.
Will
I do think that Tatum is widely seen as the more valuable asset. Like, I don't, I don't think that is arguable. Here's, here's a, here's a trade. Shout out to my 7 year old nephew Luke who pitched this trade to me today when I was talking to him.
Greg
Seven year old pitching trades. I'm impressed already.
Will
It was actually a pretty good like trade idea. I don't think it would work for Jalen. I. But I'm wondering if you think there's some framework of a Tatum trade here. He said trade Jalen Brown to the Phoenix Suns for Devin Booker and Dylan Brooks.
Greg
I mean, I think that's pro. So that's, I see what you're saying. So it's like too much for, for Jalen Brown, but is that enough for Jason Tatum?
Will
Right. Like you probably the Suns. If it's Jason Tatum on the table, I think the sun say yes to that. If it's Jalen Brown on the table, I think the sun say no to that. Right. So like the, the return that you're getting for these guys I think is widely different in terms of the salaries that are within that. Which is why, like I wouldn't do that trade. I wouldn't do. Yeah, the Jason Tatum version of that. I would think about the Jalen Brown version of that trade.
Greg
So that's kind of my point. Like thinking in my head is like, I'm just saying no to a lot of these that are going to be for Jason Tatum, but if they're for Jalen Brown, I'm like, yes, I'm in. Or I'm considering a version that's closer to that. Right. If they, even if they're like, okay, well it's Devin Booker and I don't know, we have to figure out like maybe you get a draft pick instead. Like I'd consider Devin Booker in a draft pick for Jalen Brown. Like, I, I don't, I don't know. I'd have to think about that a little bit more. But like there's just more things that I'm going to consider that I'm going to accept for Jalen Brown than there is Jason Tate.
Will
Yeah, I mean dude, a lineup of Derrick White, Devin Booker, Dylan Brooks, Jalen Brown and K. I kind of like it. Or Rob Williams if we get him back.
Greg
Like, I, I mean I didn't want to dive too deep into the trade talk, but there's, there's one trade that's already like kind of making the rounds out there, right? That three way trade of Atlanta, Boston and Milwaukee. Because Atlanta has I think one or two of Milwaukee's picks. So you could send it, you could send Jalen Brown back home to Atlanta, you send Giannis to Boston and then, and then Milwaukee ends up with like three or four Hawks basically and like two picks from the Celtics and two picks from, from the Hawks get their own picks back, some something of that, that Max Nation. And then you can also, if you're the Celtics, like you have this 27 million dollar trade exceptions which we'll talk a ton about, I'm sure in the off season you could theoretically also then take back a. And I don't know if you'd want to, but maybe you want to say like, hey, we'll only give you one pick but we'll take one of your bad contracts. We'll take Miles Turner, we'll take Kyle Kuzma and like theoretically Greg walk down this, this. If you take back. Let's just say it's Miles Turner because Miles Turner fits into, you know, he didn't have a great year, but I thought it was a horrible fit. Like in the room he's overpaid, like there's no doubt about it. And it was a bad fit. But he was also the starting center of an NBA Finals team last year, right? Like, so he's not that far removed from being. He was great in the first three rounds. Not as much against Oklahoma City, but great in first three rounds. But you think about, we talked about that stable of versatility at the big man spot. If you go into next year and you've got Kada, Miles Turner and Luca Garza and then you obviously would have giannis at the 4, you'd have Tatum at the 3, Derrick White and Sam Houser or Shireman in the starting lineup. You got Peyton Pritchard off the bench, you got second year Ugo. Like that's pretty interesting team, right? Like, like you're taking on like obviously you're gonna eat some of that Miles Turner contract. It's probably not going to age well and it's gonna up your books eventually, but like for a year or two, that's a pretty interesting team to roll.
Will
I think Ugo's probably in that trade. Brad, had an interesting comment on Ugo today. Did you, did you hear that?
Greg
Big, big part of the future, I think he said he's the strongest, like the strongest guy in the room at 20 years old.
Will
One of the strongest guys in the room. 20 years old.
Greg
Critical part of the team is what he called him. Athleticism can meet the moment in big games.
Will
Yes, correct. And I, I think like whoever, whoever you get that's replacing if, if it's Jalen Brown, right? If Jalen Brown gets traded, they have to be the athletic force that Jalen Brown is. We can't downgrade in athleticism and force because Jalen Brown is our strongest, like most athletic dude. Right? And like meeting the moment of that competition, you know, find me someone else who met the moment in game seven better than Jaylen Brown. Like he was guarding Joel and Bead blocking Paul George at the rim. Yeah, he missed some shots at the end, but like he competed and that was one of his things. Tonight. He's like, listen, man, I'm proud of this team because we competed and we competed all year and like, that's what I love about Jalen Brown. I think there are more guys that need to have the attitude of Jalen Brown on the team. I think that's actually missing from the team, which is why, like a Dylan Brooks type out there in a trade, coming back with a super talented guy like Devin Booker, although he didn't look great in the playoffs, like that type of stuff would, it would at least interest me. But I want to address this comment here from Mr. Grazer. 5 EU2.
Greg
I thought that said Mr. Garza, at first a fan of the chat.
Will
He says Giannis is a downgrade in player value. Older, less versatile, can't shoot, declining and injury prone. I mean, that's, those are definitely the knocks on, on Giannis, right? Like there, there's a risk getting Giannis
Greg
on the player value. But I think older, less, I don't
Will
think, I don't think he's saying that he's better than Jalen. I think he's talking about just like trade value. I don't know though.
Greg
Yeah, it might be trade value. Yeah, that's. I mean, and he's on a one year deal. You got to pay him and, and stuff. So I, I can see where this is. And yeah, I think, I think for me the biggest thing is the injuries. Right? Like that's the biggest thing is. And actually I wanted to ask you this question, Greg. We've had Jalen and Jason for nine years. We know the, the faults, we know the highs, the lows, we know everything about that. Right. So what I'm going to ask you is, is theoretical, is Tatum and Giannis even a better fit than, than Tatum Brown?
Will
I mean I love when you get athletic positional size, right? So like to me, if you're getting Giannis, so your starting lineup is apparently Keda and Giannis, which I don't love that front court because it can't shoot.
Greg
So we would eat some of that Miles Turner deal, right?
Will
Okay, so Miles Turner, throw that out for now.
Greg
Let's just talk about JB and Yana straight up.
Will
I mean, I don't think they fit that well, to be honest with you. I love the defensive fit and the ability to rebound and like guard a guy like Embiid and guard a guy like Carl Anthony Towns and all these like ginormous people that are out there. You've seen Giannis completely dominate OKC single handedly. Like he has that top level athleticism. You worry about the decline because he is on the wrong side of 30 and all that. But in terms of like how he and Tatum, Giannis at 7ft, Tatum at 6, 9, 6, 10, like if that's your 3, 4 and they're two of the most like strongest athletic dudes in the, at those positions in the league, I mean I, I, I think that fits pretty well. But I think you make the same argument with JB and jt. It's just one level down. It's like J, right, JT and JB at the three and the two is, is ginormous as well. So it's just a different positional slot there.
Greg
Yeah, I think it's interesting to think about because you know, Giannis is so unique. Like there's a reason he's a top 20, 25 guy of a whole time. He's, there's not many guys that have ever been like Giannis, you know what I mean? So there's no way to be like, well, you know, Tatum played pretty well with Keita. They had good connections. Like that's not gonna be the same as playing with Giannis, you know what I mean? Like there's nothing to, to try to, to emulate or try to be like, hey, this is what I can pull. And there's, you know, Know, certain things, lob threats, different pick and rolls that they can do. And, you know, it's that a hesitation that I would have is like in a, you know, in a theoretical vacuum. When the Bucks got dam, you were like, damn, I can't think of much of a better partner. Pick and roll pick, you know, for. For Giannis and Dame, like, that's like, other than Steph Curry and Giannis, like, that sounds like an amazing combo.
Will
Yeah.
Greg
And part of that is coaching and like, just scheme. For whatever reason, they didn't go to some of the actions as much, but, like, it never really gel health. Right. It never really quite took off. So this is the concern where in a vacuum, Giannis is a better player than Jalen, in my opinion, like, healthy. If they're both healthy, he's a better player.
Will
Like, yeah, I don't.
Greg
I don't think it's super questionable. Yeah. But then when you try to factor in, you know, or how does they fit with the other guy, which is Jason Tatum, I. I think it's a little bit more of a question and like, you're opening yourself up to the potential, but you also have to, you know, now start to wonder Keda or Garza or do you bring my. Or, like, there's so many other factors that go into the rest of the roster. Like, you. We think about these two guys and we forget a lot about the other 13 that are a part of this as well.
Will
Yep. No, that's. That's a great point. Do you have a dream front court for next year?
Greg
I mean, like, outside of Giannis, I
Will
guess, or I guess, I mean, Giannis could be in that.
Greg
If I haven't given too much thought about it right now, I've, like, begrudgingly started to just look at, like, if we are to trade Jalen, what does that look like? And it's. It's really hard to do. And like, I, I don't have anyone that jumps out other than Giannis and even that are, like, I'm. I'm unsure of how I would talk myself into it if the trade happens to be very clear. Like, it would be something I would very quickly wrap my head around being like, dude, we have two of the top six guys in the league. We went from two of the top 10, 11, 12 guys to two of the top six guys. Like, that would be my. My talk track to get into that. But outside of that, I haven't really thought about someone that would be super ideal. Do you have a name that's. That's Starting to circulate for you.
Will
I mean, low level. I want Rob back, but yeah, it's a cheap option.
Greg
I like that.
Will
If you could somehow figure out a way to get Bam out of bio without giving up the Jays, I would love to see Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, and Bam out of bio in our front court. Like, that is so positionally switchable.
Greg
It would be pretty fun to watch. And they're friends too, right? So it's like they're all buddies. It would be. It would be cool to see somebody brought up the heat. I don't know, Somewhere everyone's just talking, talking these days, but someone brought the heat. And like, I tried to look at it and like. Like, even Jalen for Bam just doesn't make a lot of. I mean, Jalen for Bam would maybe make sense for Miami. I don't think it would make any sense for the Celtics.
Will
Yeah.
Greg
Straight up.
Will
Yeah.
Greg
And so then if you try to keep Jalen and get Bam, like, you know, what are you offering Derek White and Ugo Gonzalez? Like, they. That. That's. What is that going to do with Norm Powell and Tyler Hero and Khalil? Yeah, you know, I mean, it doesn't make any sense either. So I think that would be cool. I just think that would be a hard one to make people, like you said, a, like a dream scenario. And I think that's one of the things that I want to do as a podcast maybe in like a week or two when I have more time. I think we need to see the. The draft results too, because that could play a role in some of these trades, is like, let's do scenarios where it's like, let's get real crazy. Let's do something that's really nice for the Celtics, and then let's get a couple, like, realistic trades and we'll kind of like, see. See. See what matches up. But yep, we're in. We're in for a lot of rumors. We're in for a lot of. That's gonna off season. This is just the beginning of it right now. Knicks in Sixers. Quick update here because I want to go watch the end of this game here. 450 left. Nick's up two. Looks like Maxine Edgecombe, I think, have been balling out. Edgecombe jacking up a three. Oh, just missed it. But yeah, we'll check in on that. Round two. I've got a question that I'm gonna save for our next podcast. I want to ask you, Greg, about what future backcourt would you rather have? I'LL let you start thinking about it here. Sixers or Spurs? Interesting to think about as we watch these next couple of games, but any final thoughts that you got here on round one or any of the comments from Stevens, Missoula, JB before we wrap up?
Will
No, I might have to get my gallbladder removed.
Greg
Well, that's out of left field. What's going on? Let's hit that real quick.
Will
Just started experiencing some pain under my right ribbon a couple nights ago. My brother had had a necrotic gallbladder at one point, so he had to get emergency surgery to get his gallbladder removed. And I was like, damn, like, I can't even sleep. I was a lot of discomfort. Still in discomfort right now, but I think my body's kind of gotten used to it. Had to go to the doctor yesterday, felt around, told me probably have gallstones. And looks like I have to get an ultrasound tomorrow morning. And then we figure out if I need to get surgery to get this little guy out of there.
Greg
All right, well, maybe. Maybe you'll be on the shelf. Maybe. Hey, maybe I'll do another solo podcast and during your recovery, you can use it to. To go to sleep.
Will
Love it.
Greg
I love it.
Will
Put it right in my.
Greg
Put you right to sleep. All right, everybody, we're gonna wrap it up here. We'll check back in on those gallstones, see where they're at. Hopefully on Sunday. Either they're in or they're out or they're on their way out. We'll. We'll let you know. It's. I know everyone's presently waiting for that update, so that's gonna do it for this episode here of Green with envy. As always. Appreciate you guys go lock into the postseason. We'll keep you up to date with all the rumors and give you our trade thoughts going forward in the offseason. We will catch you guys later. Peace.
May 7, 2026 | Hosts: Will & Greg (Blue Wire)
Guests discussed: Jaylen Brown (via Twitch), Brad Stevens (Celtics GM), Tracy McGrady, Donovan Mitchell, others
This episode tackles the swirling rumors around Jaylen Brown’s future with the Boston Celtics following his candid Twitch streams and a revealing end-of-season press conference from team president Brad Stevens. Will and Greg break down the evolving narratives, what was said (and meant) by key Celtics figures, how the media and fanbase react, and survey the big-picture changes that may be coming for Boston’s roster in pursuit of Banner 19.
(Starting ~[02:00])
(~[09:40] onward)
(~[18:10])
(~[25:45])
(~[24:30] and [32:22] onward)
(~[31:02] and [44:31])
The conversation is candid, humorous, and sometimes irreverent, blending serious Celtics analysis with the relatable perspective of lifelong fans. Both hosts value player authenticity, push back on reactionary hot takes, and emphasize the importance of broader context in player/team narratives.
Missed the episode? This summary gives you a detailed, nuanced walkthrough of the Celtics’ pivotal crossroads—whether Jaylen Brown remains, what Brad Stevens’ uncharacteristically direct press conference signals, and what sort of seismic moves could re-shape Boston’s championship hopes. If you want to follow the Celtics’ offseason storylines, these themes and trade hypotheticals (with real-world NBA outcomes in mind) will be essential context.
Next episode tease: The hosts will return with more trade scenarios and offseason analysis following key NBA Draft developments and further playoff developments.