← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Jaylen Brown's Masterpiece, Derrick White History + Expansion Draft and All NBA Talk
00:47:02
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- [00:01]
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- [01:00]
Will
This is Mike Gorman and you're listening
- [01:02]
Greg
to Green with Envy with Will and Greg. All right everybody, Celtics bring home the W120 to 112. It's a green with Envy post game Live. It was a Jalen Brown versus Devin Booker Classic. We got a lot to talk about. We're going to check in on the NBA's expansion news and we'll take a look. About a month ago here it's time to look at what our all NBA predictions look like. We'll give you our first run, our first attempt at predicting the all NBA teams. All that and more coming up next here on Agreeing with NB Live. Post game. You guys know the deal. Let's lock in. What up, what up, what up? Welcome into another edition of Greenwich with Envy. It's a Green with Envy post game Live. Somewhat of a special edition. I'm gonna be doing some traveling later this week, so we're getting out a second podcast. Back to back days. We're pulling a back to back. But you know what? We don't rest. We don't ever take days off. No, we just keep giving you the hits. And the Celtics keep it rolling with a 120 to 112 victory over the Phoenix Suns. It was a really fun game, a Jalen Brown vs. Devin Booker classic that will go down in the books. Joining me to help break this all down, as always, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Meneikis. Greg didn't play it on podcasts tonight we decided late in the day this was our best, best opportunity for the week. And we got blessed with a good one.
- [02:47]
Will
Dude. Jalen Brown. Holy moly. On a game where Devin Booker started to look like peak Devin Booker. And we're like, oh man, like Devin Booker's gonna have one of those I'm the best player in the court games.
- [02:59]
Greg
Bam's record. At one point I thought.
- [03:01]
Will
And then J. Brown was just like, hold my beer, let's do this. We're gonna go dueling Banjos. And he just, he just went for it, man. And Jaylen Brown got to the line. Career high attempts. Career high makes out of Jaylen Brown. Two way performance. Just like unstoppable once again. I think he was close to seven assists. I think at one point he had six. I don't know if he actually got the seven.
- [03:22]
Greg
Yeah. 417 and six is the final line. Seven rebounds, six assists.
- [03:26]
Will
Just crazy efficiency out of that guy. Shout out to cool, genuine Phil. He in the chat. Mvjb. Mvjb. I think that's what. I think that's the cadence you're going for and I believe it, man. Jaylen Brown's playing like a top three all NBA MVP candidate and he deserves all the credit right now.
- [03:46]
Greg
Yeah, fun. Monday night game, man. I this. These two teams, Greg, we talk, we've been talking about the last couple weeks about the teams that stand out when you watch them and, and, and the Suns are part of that mold of playing basketball in the way that it seems to be trending. Star player identity, young head coach with like a philosophy and a thought on how basketball should be played. And obviously, you know, they're, they're playing shorthanded and they've been exceeding expectations. Much like the Celtics.
- [04:11]
Will
Right.
- [04:11]
Greg
They've been to a lesser degree a west coast version of the Celtics where Devin Booker is there, Jalen Brown, and they've had guys kind of stepping up left and right.
- [04:21]
Will
He's been out. But Dylan Brooks is right, exactly.
- [04:24]
Greg
No Dylan Brooks, no Mark Williams. So they're still, they've been very short handed for a little bit now, but they're still hanging right in there with, you know, a, a winning record and right in between that 76 seed trying to get into or trying to get outside of the playing. And yeah, they fit that mold tonight where you know, they had this lead at I think 110, 106 at one point in the fourth quarter where it was looking like, damn this whole game. I, I did not really contemplate the Suns Pulling this game out now I gotta, I gotta lock in here because the Suns might pull this out. And you know, getting back to the, to the Jaylen Brown point, I just think Jaylen Brown that at that time, both offensively and defensively, because he made several plays down the stretch defensively, even if a couple that, you know, ended up out of bounds, like he was just everywhere on the, on both sides of the court. He really took that game over the last, whatever it was four to, four to five minutes or so from around that time. That scorpion 110, 106 and it was just Jaylen Brown's game after that. Devin Booker, I thought was going to run away with the game to your point. And I think that was something that was noticeable at the end. And part of that's who has different teammates, right? When you look at Booker's teammates versus Jalen's. But Jalen was fantastic in this game and, and really put his mark on it in the last five minutes or so.
- [05:36]
Will
Full takeover mode, man. And I think like, what drives me crazy, the conversation surrounding Jalen Brown still at large, is that he's outside of the top five discussion. Right? We're going to go all NBA check in here later in the podcast, but just send this tape to anyone who doesn't understand why Celtics fans are chanting MVP for Jalen Brown when he's at the free throw line. Like his two way impact in the sheer force that he's playing with right now, like he's taking over games with his physicality where nobody on the other team can do anything with him. And this is why it was so frustrating that he got tossed at the spurs game that we were at live, because you could see it. Like there was that one play where we were sitting there in the corner where the Celtics were shooting in the first half of that spurs game. And I forget who it was, but somebody was guarding Jaylen Brown and had him like locked in the absolute corner of the floor. And Jaylen Brown simply pivoted and then just took like one large step and was able to just completely clear out space, get to the middle floor. And I was just like, damn, like, how did he create that space? Like, he was completely like coffin cornered there and you just see that guys bounce off of him. Rasheer Fleming, who I absolutely love, by the way, like, I, I love that guy.
- [06:52]
Greg
That was, that was, that was the guy that you fell in love with and many other people did ahead of the draft, right? That was the guy that. Around the UGO spot or that second Pick the Celtics had, that was. That was one of the main targets.
- [07:02]
Will
Right. And I, I love him. And to see Jaylen just like body him all game. He's a rookie, but he's a huge rookie to go through high Smith, who's been an absolute thorn in our side. One of the notes I have here, will. I think this was number seven on my notes. Watch. I love Rasheer Fleming, but God damn it, do I hate Haywood Highsmith.
- [07:22]
Greg
The NBA 2K. Yeah, Haywood Heismith, man.
- [07:26]
Will
He.
- [07:27]
Greg
It's. It's so funny how those Heat guys just linger around the NBA. It's like, oh, I forgot this guy's on this team.
- [07:32]
Will
Yeah. But, yeah, Jaylen was great, man. Like, I mean, he's playing like an mvp. I mean, I. I don't know how many more times I can say it.
- [07:40]
Greg
Yeah, I don't really know too much to add to this because this is, you know, a Jaylen Brown game where you, you know, this is one of the. He goes 19 of 21 from the free throw line. Right. And I know they were saying, I think, was it 13 made free throws was his record coming into this, and he clearly surpassed. I think the 13 was just the other night in Oklahoma City. I'm pretty sure he went 13 to 14 from the free throw line. So JB is piling up them free throws. You know, he's. He's talked quite a bit about, you know, what he feels he should be getting for the way he plays, and some of that is coming to fruition now. I'm. I don't know that his comments are swaying anything different. I don't necessarily think that he's playing different. I think he's kind of playing the way the game dictates, where he's like, you're gonna. You don't have anyone that can stop me, so I'm gonna body everybody that's in my way. And it was interesting to see the Suns try to counter this at the end of the game by just throwing wild double teams at him. Right? Like, just like if he gets the ball three, four, five feet behind the three point line, sent to give it to anybody but him. And, you know, the Celtics remain patient and for the most part just wait to give the ball back to him, give him a little head of steam. And seemingly every time down, Jaylen Brown either got a great shot or he ended up at the free throw line at the end of this game.
- [08:55]
Will
Dude. And the, the guys on the court that Jalen is now trusting to knock down the Open shots. Another note I had, it was just like the level of playmaking that we're seeing out of Jaylen Brown that you referenced on the last podcast. He's just. They're entrusting him and they're empowering him to make plays for other people, including Jason Tatum, who recognized in that fourth quarter, like, yo, this is your game. Like, go ahead, full takeover mode. Do you, buddy? And that. That was something that everybody was worried about. Would Jason Tatum be able to slide into that number two role and let Jalen Brown do his thing that he's been doing all season, and he was perfectly fine with it tonight. And when Jalen Brown is surrounded by guys like Jason Tatum who are playing off of him, there's just not enough help defense in the world. Right. And there's nobody that can guard Jalen Brown one on one, as good of a defender as Highsmith is as good a defender. Some of those guys on the Suns are. There's just nobody that can deal with Jaylen Brown, especially now that he's mastered this one dribble. Will that I. I think is like very, you know, it. It is the reason why he. He's been able to reduce the amount of turnovers on those drives through contact. He does a really good job of just like snatching the ball back. So when he goes to the hoop, his first is hard and he brings it like all the way back behind his body so that nobody can get to it. And then off of that, that dribble, he's able to kind of power through and it's just out of reach because he's got such long arms. And that's not a dribble that he's had in the past, especially on that little right to left crossover that he's been doing through the legs. The Luca crossover, right where he snatches it through his legs, and then that first dribble is super far back and then he explodes off of it. And I think that that is becoming his signature move from the perimeter. And then when playmaking to that, he's just unstoppable.
- [10:42]
Greg
Yeah, it's an interesting note in that dribble. It's definitely something I think we got to watch for more here, maybe even try to highlight that here, you know, as we. As we go through. But you brought up the end of the game with like, kind of Tatum, and it was interesting because this is the first game that we've had since hat and return that's been close at the end, right, because we mentioned Jalen got thrown out Against San Antonio. Tatum didn't play against okc. None of the other games, to my knowledge, unless I'm missing someone here, have been. Have been close. I've not had a true clutch time ending like we got tonight. And so it was interesting to see how it was gonna kind of unfold.
- [11:17]
Will
Right.
- [11:17]
Greg
Because this has been, to your point, one of the question marks of what does this look like? And to me, it's. I'm gonna be interested if somebody has a hot take that wants to. To read into this. Like, I'm gonna be on the lookout for this on Twitter to see if they do. Because I was thinking about it, and even in my head, I was like, all right, if I wanted to have a hot take about Jason Tatum not touching the ball down the stretch, what does it mean? And then I really thought about it. It's not. It's not what I actually believe anyways. But I was just curious to try to, like, play devil's advocate in my head. And what I thought of is, we've seen this before. Like. Like, this is part of the thing for me, that wasn't going to be an issue is we've seen games where Jaylen Brown is on fire and just Tatum is just like, dude, you're. You're awesome. You close this game out. Like, this isn't like it's gonna. Maybe it will stand out because it's the first close game since Jason Tatum's return. But if you really have watched this team year over year, when Jalen has it cooking, Jalen's. I mean, Jason has deferred to Jalen before in moments. Like, I wouldn't say it happens consistently, but there are nights that this has happened. Like, it's not like we've never seen Jalen Brown close a game with Tatum out there. So I'm curious to see if this is more of that or if this will become more of a constant deference from Jason Tatum because of the setup of this season and the MVP season Jalen Brown had. I don't know the answer to that yet, but that was my take on that situation.
- [12:37]
Will
No, I think that's a pretty good take. I. I would probably push back a little bit because I do think that Tatum does have that fourth quarter. Like, the. The game is mine. This is my team Gene in him, where I think he goes. He goes and gets the ball and he runs high pick and roll. You know, there was even that one time he's bringing the ball off the court, and he got picked at half court. And then from there he was. He kind of just let Jalen do his thing, right? Like, kind of like it might not be my night. I think the biggest thing is if Jaylen is shooting 19 of 21, 90% from the free throw line, if he's knocking down free throws at that high of a clip and he's not turning the ball over like he's as automatic as it gets down, down the stretch, he can get to his spots whenever he want. He can get to the mid range and if you can't foul him right, which has been the end of the game, question mark with Jaylen Brown is he's going to hit his free throws down the stretch, which he did tonight. Like there's really not much you can do with the dude, right? And I think if there's just less of a hey, it always goes to Tatum down the stretch and in the fourth quarter and it's more of a, hey, let's feel it out, let's see who has it going and we can kind of go from there. That's kind of the perfect situation that Celtics fans have always wanted. Anyway, big thanks to our sponsor, Better Help, for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health.
- [13:54]
Steve Smith
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- [14:24]
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- [15:21]
Greg
Yeah. And you even saw Jalen Brown a couple times on the break. Found Jason Tatum, right. Like, found him towards the end of the game. So I, I liked what I saw to that. Again, I think it's worth noting. I think it's something to just keep an eye on it. I hope we get a few more clutch games so we can actually see, like, if this is a data point or not. That'll be interesting.
- [15:39]
Will
Phantom still finished 21, 7 and 4 tonight in 32 minutes. Second straight game playing 32 minutes.
- [15:44]
Greg
Yeah, and I think it was a game where there was like, it's, you know, it's. It's Jason. Him's in this weird zone for me right now where, like, I just care how he. Like that he looks healthy. Like, the rest of it, it will all come. But there is parts of me where I'm like, okay, am I ready to, like, make this something? Is it anything? And then it's, you know, at the end of the day, he's 217 and four coming back off of a horrific.
- [16:04]
Will
Yeah, I'm just happy he's on the court. Man, it was funny. We got our. Our first text, our first Tatum. Settling for three's text from Alex tonight, which is pretty funny. It's like, yeah, man, like, let's just, let's not worry about Tatum shot selection quite yet. Like, I'm just happy.
- [16:17]
Greg
But I can't blame him. It was in my head too, but then I have to shut myself and just go, he's healthy and he's out there and he does so much else that, like, and this is the other thing, and we're going to start talking about a few other guys in this game. Like, when you just look at this box score, Greg, at least from a points, production standpoint, you know, you're not going to get 41 from Jalen every game, but you are going to get 30. You're gonna get maybe closer to 30 from Tatum. Like, this is kind of the breakdown that you're looking for as far as, like, your consistency, right? You get 19 from Pritchard, you get 21 from. From Derrick White, you get 41 from Jalen, you get 21 from Tatum. But, like, from those four, looking to get somewhere between 15 to 30 from each of those guys, like, that's the ideal kind of point distribution. And then after that, you're looking at, can we get 10 from K, can we get 8 from Shireman? Or can we get, you know, whatever kind of put it Together on the. On the edges with whoever else is contributing that night. But, like, that kind of scoring breakdown from those four, like, in that 15 to 30 range. And obviously, you know, Jalen took it a notch up tonight with. With 41. Like, I think that's kind of what you're looking for. So I. I really like the breakdown of. Of how this came out tonight.
- [17:24]
Will
Yeah. Let's go to Derrick White. If. If you don't mind, I do want to hit on Sam Houser here in a little bit, but Derrick White had a. Had a great second quarter. Got on an absolute heater. He went on his own personal, like, 11 nothing run at 1.11 fun Derrick White stat. There's plenty of Derrick White stats I'm going to throw at you right now, but he has over 75 blocks and 75 seals this season. This is the first player to do that since Kevin Garnett in the 0708 season.
- [17:52]
Greg
That's crazy.
- [17:53]
Will
Okay. Another fun Derek White stat. And I don't know if you caught this, and they talked about this in the first half, so I don't know if you.
- [17:59]
Greg
I might have missed a little bit of it. We'll see.
- [18:00]
Will
So Derrick White is currently on track to be the first player in NBA history to block 100 shots in a season and hit 200 threes in a season. First player ever. Who else might be capable of this? Will. I'm trying to think of it because.
- [18:16]
Greg
Shooters. Wemby's the first one that.
- [18:18]
Will
Wemby's the first one. How many threes do you think Wemby has this season?
- [18:22]
Greg
I mean, he's missed a bunch of games, but I would. I mean, I. I would say this year he has, like, probably 100. 102.
- [18:29]
Will
Yeah. 103. 103. Right.
- [18:31]
Greg
Oh, wow. So that's pretty close. Yeah.
- [18:33]
Will
There have only been. Let me just finish up here. There have only been five guards ever who have blocked a hundred shots. Okay. Do you want to. Want to venture a guess who they are?
- [18:43]
Greg
So Dwayne Wade's gonna be one of them. Yep. I think I might have seen the stat. Or not. Not tonight, but I think in general. So Dwayne Wade, Michael Jordan, Is he on that list?
- [18:52]
Will
Two times.
- [18:53]
Greg
Okay. Is Reggie Lewis on that list?
- [18:54]
Will
Reggie Lewis is on that list. And then there's one more guys that are, like, shooting guards, small forwards. You might not think of them as guards.
- [19:04]
Greg
Give me. Give me these last two. I don't think I'm gonna get them.
- [19:06]
Will
George Kervin. T. Mac. Yeah.
- [19:08]
Greg
I wouldn't, I wouldn't have thought of those guys. Right. I think those guys more offensive first. But that's, That's. That's a great list, though.
- [19:13]
Will
Yeah. Okay, so I'm, I'm thinking of who else might be able to crack this. Right. So Wemby's the first name that came to my mind. Cat was the second name that came to my mind. What do you think Cat's career high in threes made is?
- [19:27]
Greg
It's funny, for a lot of these guys, it's always a lot less than you think. I'm gonna say it's 185.
- [19:34]
Will
150.
- [19:35]
Greg
150. That's low.
- [19:37]
Will
That's low. Right. And you. You would say, like, oh, Cat shoots a ton of threes. Like, he gets them up. So, like, it's very rare for big guys to hit 200 threes. Jason Tatum was a name that I, I thought about. His career high in blocks is 78. So that's a pretty big jump there too. So I don't know that there's anybody else besides Wemby that might be able to. To join this club. And, you know, fingers crossed Derrick White stays healthy.
- [20:01]
Greg
Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm just looking through right now, just trying to see if anyone else. Because, like. Yeah, because SGA doesn't really make enough threes. And he's like a good. Like, he had three blocks the other night. He's not gonna get to 100 blocks, I don't think. Like, he's like, he's a. He's a decent shop locker for, you know, a small guy. So it's like, who are the big. Like. Yeah, it's. It's pretty tough to really think about somebody that's going to have that type of. Yeah, it's basically web in a class of their own because, you know, I. I think there's a world in which he's so young and so athletic, maybe an Edwards transforms himself into more of a shop blocker. It's not really his game right now.
- [20:41]
March Madness Announcer
Right.
- [20:41]
Greg
But then again, you think about Derrick White when he came to the Celtics. Did you ever think this was happening when he came to the Celtics and he was, you know, 26, 27, whatever. However old he was, like, so for a guy with the athleticism of ant, like, to say he can't. Like, I, I would say he's. He's in the conversation because he has the tools to be able to. To do it. But outside of that, it's like, yeah, that's it? I think it's Wemby and White with a shout out to Anthony Edwards. What a. What a. What a class that is.
- [21:09]
Will
That's amazing. Right? One more fun Derek White stat, will.
- [21:13]
Greg
Yeah, go for it.
- [21:14]
Will
Okay, so he had four fouls in the third quarter. So, like, not all in the third quarter, but through the third quarter, he had four files. So he was in foul trouble tonight. It's the first game all season that Derrick White had five fouls in a game. Okay.
- [21:28]
Greg
He.
- [21:29]
Will
I don't know if you saw me tweet about this. Venture to guess how many games Derrick White has zero fouls this season.
- [21:37]
Greg
I saw it, but I forget the number right now, but I think it's like four.
- [21:42]
Will
15.
- [21:43]
Greg
It's 15. Okay.
- [21:44]
Will
15 games with zero fouls. So he has three times the amount of games where he didn't follow anybody than he does where he has four fouls. And I, I tweeted at Dick Light and he let me know that since Derrick White joined the Boston Celtics, which is about 311 games, I think, right? More or less, he has only had four fouls through three quarters nine times. So he's rarely in. Rarely in foul trouble. Just like, unbelievable Derrick White stats. It's just amazing. Like, Derrick White is truly in a glass of his own.
- [22:19]
Greg
I want to talk about Derek White more in a second, but speaking being his class of his own, shout out to Dick Light. Dick Light is doing everything. Like, how the fact that he saw your tweet was like, yeah, I got this random stat that you asked me mid game while I'm sitting next to Eddie House and Drew Carter, listening to them ask me for random. And I'm also responding to people on Twitter, like, absolute goat status from. From Dick Legend.
- [22:39]
Will
Legend.
- [22:40]
Greg
But with. With Derek White, man, it's crazy because I did see you tweet that at Dick Life. And I was thinking about it, and it's like, man, all these topics, defenders. And this goes for big guys, this goes for wings. Like, generally, they're kind of playing with the edge of foul trouble. Right? Because that's part of. Of what makes you a good defender. Now, Derrick White isn't your typical, like, physical defender, despite the shot blocking prowess, despite the steals Steel prowess that we just talked about. And he just does it with this crazy level of. Of iq. And it was kind of strange watching him we pick up his, what, fifth foul, just under seven minutes, I think, or six and a half minutes or so tonight. And it was just. It was weird because, like, we never have to Deal with, hey, Derek White might be in foul trouble in a game.
- [23:24]
Will
Right?
- [23:25]
Greg
Right. Like, you never have to really think about that. Whereas, you know, even with Tatum or Jalen, you're like, man, what happens if he gets three fouls in the first, you know, first quarter or in the first quarter and a half? Like, that could happen. Like, that's not a crazy scenario to be in. You got to be prepared. And with Derrick White, it just feels like, hey, you know what, what's one game plan? We don't need to have the, oh, no, Derrick White might foul out of a game or be in foul trouble. And, you know, I definitely didn't realize it reached the extents that, you know, you busted out some of those stats with. Kudos to you, but damn, it was a little weird tonight having a game with Derrick White and file trouble.
- [23:58]
Will
Yeah, that was crazy. But he was awesome tonight, despite the file trouble. Do you want to talk about Sam?
- [24:04]
Greg
Yeah. Well, you said you had something else. I was curious what you were gonna. What your, what your thoughts on or what you need.
- [24:09]
Will
I mean, I've only played 19 minutes over two from three. It's been shooting 34 in the month of March, from three in the month of February. Shot 37. He had a coup 40% months earlier in the season, but he hasn't, in my opinion, he hasn't looked great since Jason Tatum has come back. He had 153 point game recently, but in general, I feel like his impact on the games isn't as large as I was kind of hoping it would be. And maybe it's just, you know, an anomalous month where he's having a down month. We've seen that out of shooters before, but they're wide open shots. He's getting wide open shots. And my thoughts, my thought was that Charman should have stayed in the starting lineup. Right. So Charmin shooting 37% from three this month, and you kind of can't keep him off the floor. So maybe it doesn't matter who starts because Charman's going to earn those minutes. But I just want to see more of Shireman out there. I don't know that Sam offers you enough of a different look than Charman to warrant the less of an impact that Charman's bringing you.
- [25:14]
Greg
Yeah, I mean, and just so you know, Hauser got up to 23 minutes by the. By the end of this game tonight. But to your point, they basically split time. It was 25, just under 26 minutes for Shireman, 23 minutes for Hauser, and I'll throw Ugo in there because he only played eight minutes tonight. Right. And to me that's actually probably the bigger question rotation wise. Right. Is how, how much are you going to play Sam over Ugo and you know, even to a certain extent, Jordan Walsh, depending on the matchup, if he's not hitting shots, because those guys are going to give you other, other things. Like I think Shireman, I'm, I just. Shireman's just good man. He's just. Yeah, I, I think he's won the power ranking poll for, for this season. We can debate if you know Ugo's gonna win it. Prop, you know, would be be my long term bet in that power poll. I'm pretty close to just declaring Baylor the winner of the power poll like I was. We, and I know we've gone through stretches of this every three weeks. This is an extended run right now that Baylor is on. And since Tatum's come back, he's been the guy out of all of the wings that feels like he makes the most sense because of everything that he does. And he has the most well rounded game out of all the guys that are, that are in that position, Sam Houser included. And so I, I think Shireman's minutes are going to tick up. I think with Hauser there's a familiarity there, you know, with Tatum coming back, like knowing that that's a guy I've played with time and time again. And I still think Sam, he's got a certain, he's. He's at a level where he's got a gravity no matter what when he's out there. Right. But there does come a make or break time when it's like 34. You gotta be like for you to be on this court and be justified not giving, you know, Baylor 5 extra minutes and Ugo 5 extra min. Like you got to be knocked down. You got to be that 40. You got to be that actual true spacer. I don't think we're there yet because there's enough trust in Sam. I was with you that I think Shireman should start, but end of the day I don't. I never really care who starts who. It's more about who finishes and how the game goes, as long as it's not hurting the team. And I don't think Sam's hurting the team by starting right now.
- [27:27]
Will
Yeah.
- [27:27]
Greg
But I, but I do think that's the, that's the question for me is like, does half of his minutes go to Ugo and Baylor or does he Turn the shooting around. And that's. That's what will determine it, basically.
- [27:39]
Will
Definitely. Yeah. No. Well said. Anything else you want to hit on this game?
- [27:44]
Greg
Nothing else on this game, man. Just some unexpected fun. I know we talk about Devin Booker a lot in terms of the Jays because I feel like nationally he's kind of always been hovering around one of the two of them in the. In the discourse. At a point it was Tatum, then Tatum passed, and then it was like, well, he's still ahead of Jalen. It feels like this year, Jalen's path Booker. I just want to say I thought Devin Booker was really good in this game. Like, I really. I really enjoyed his game, like, pretty much start to finish. And then I think the biggest difference was just Jalen closed, Booker didn't. And, you know, at the end of the game, I was pretty impressed. Peyton Pritchard kind of got up into Devin Booker towards the end of the game, got that offensive foul call, had another couple of times where he was harassing him, but I thought it was a fun Devin, Fun Devin Booker vs. Jalen Brown duel game. We haven't had it. We haven't had a good dueling, dueling banjo game like he called it in a while. So that was. That was fun to see. Just two guys kind of throwing haymakers back and forth.
- [28:35]
Will
Definitely. Yeah. And Pritchard was great as well. Had some huge three pointers in this game and wasn't bothered by the length of the Suns, where I think the last time, if my memory serves me right, he did kind of struggle against that length. So I think that was one of the games where he either got shut out or had a really bad shooting night. So shout out to Pritchard for turning it around.
- [28:54]
Greg
All right, so we got two other things that we want to do here quickly before we wrap this up for the night. So it came out earlier today that it looks like expansion is happening in the NBA. Looks like likely Las Vegas and Seattle are going to get teams, two teams going to the Western Conference. So I'm going to throw. I didn't ask you this grab. I'm just going to ask you now. Likely it's either Memphis or Minnesota that's going to come to the Eastern Conference little spicy if we get Anthony Edwards in the. Give me all that next year or two. Like, I. I think that sounds. I mean, especially for the balance of star power, like, bring Anne over. Like, I love the idea of Minnesota ending up in the Eastern Conference. And so likely, at least from everything I've seen and if you look at a map, that's the only thing that really makes sense is one of those two teams going to, to the Eastern Conference. So with these two teams, I don't think it's been laid out as to when this might happen. There's still voting and stuff that has to happen. But with that, there comes an expansion draft. So Greg and I, we're going to go through here quickly and we want to look at this Celtics roster and we're going to do this as if it's happening next year because we don't know what year and we got to predict out rosters, all that. Okay, we're just going to do it. Do it with this roster right now. Yeah, we could believe off season we can do that. We might do that. We might, we might find a way to make that happen. But if this were to happen next year, Greg, I just want us to go back and forth until we get to eight guys and we got to figure out who it is that we are going to keep from the expansion draft. One guy that I will put out there that is not eligible for this is Nicola Vucevich because he's going to be a free agent. So he's off the board. He's just automatically not somebody that we can, we can place a tag on. But everyone else on this team is basically going to be back next year. Feel free to throw Charles Bassey in the mix. He's on 10 days, so you can save him if you want. I won't. So let's just go back and forth with the guys who we think that we would save from an expansion draft. You go first, I'll go second. We'll just keep going back and forth until we feel like we gotta, we gotta debate it out about who is the final cut.
- [30:55]
Will
Love it. Number one pick, Ugo Gonzalez.
- [30:58]
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- [31:16]
Will
to see for yourself.
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- [31:40]
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- [32:12]
Will
I want to go. I want to go in Boston for the next 15 years.
- [32:16]
Greg
I'll tell you what. He wasn't going to be a debate, but that's. That's a hell of a first pick. You go Ugo. I'll go Jaylen Brown.
- [32:23]
Will
Okay. Jason Tatum.
- [32:25]
Greg
I'll go Derek White. So we're at four.
- [32:27]
Will
Peyton Pritchard.
- [32:29]
Greg
Peyton Pritchard makes five. I'm gonna go Nemi Escada. That's gonna put us at six. So now we've got only two spots left. Two. Two spots left. Let me go here. The candidates that we have for these two spots. Baylor Shireman, Ron Harper Jr. Jordan Walsh, Sam Houser, Luca Garza, Amari Williams. Oh,
- [32:55]
Will
I'm gonna go Baylor.
- [32:57]
Greg
Go bail. Yeah, you had to go Baylor. I think especially after we just. What we just talked about. We. You have to go Baylor.
- [33:02]
Will
Despite being an older player at 25 years old. Is this okay? That's. I was gonna say I'm looking at spot track, and I was, like, looking at the ages of people, and I had Jason Tatum listed at 26, but it's the age at the signing of
- [33:17]
Greg
their contract, he actually reversed in age while he was outgrown. Okay, so we got one spot left, and we've got Sam Houser. We've got Jordan Walsh, got Ron Harper Jr got Luca Garza. Do you want to make a case for any of these guys, Greg, of who you think we should save?
- [33:38]
Will
I mean, I think it's got to be Sam Houser. The only argument I guess, that you would make is he would be a little bit older and maybe he breaks down a little bit. He's had some back issues in the past. He's probably gonna be. I think at that time, he's like, I know where the exercise we're doing right now is. If it were right now. But at that time, if we're looking forward, he would be coming towards the end of his contract. So he's probably going to deserve a little bit more money. One of the things that is great about Sam Houser now, he's on like one of the best contracts in the league. Right. So I think that would be the only argument against Sam is that he might cost too much money at that point. And then you might be able to see like, hey, Jordan Walsh still really interesting prospect even though he's out of the road.
- [34:29]
Greg
All right, I think we lost Greg. We'll get Greg back here. But I think that's the. I do think that's the right answer. I think it's got to be Sam Houser and Sam Houser for a lot of the contract reasons. Right. Like the money that he is making is going to be valuable no matter what. Right. Like, so even if it's for a trade asset, I just think it's more valuable than what Jordan Walsh is or has brought. So I think if you got the eight spot, it's going to go to Sam Houser. Now while we wait for Greg to sync back up here as we've lost him, he'll get him back on here in a second. One of the galaxy brain things I did think about and it, you know, this is only hypothetical for if this is happening right now in this moment in time is with a guy like Nene is kid. And actually this is actually more for if this is happening two years down the road. But Greg, welcome back.
- [35:22]
Will
First time that's happened in a while, my guy.
- [35:24]
Greg
I know, I know. So what I was explaining right now is, is one of the things that I, I was thinking about that when we don't know right now when this is going to happen, let's just say it's two years from now. Right. Galaxy brain off season topic for the Celtics here. We've talked a lot about Brad's going to sign Nemi Escada. If you have to overpay Nemi esqueda. This is an interesting thing to think about. And this could apply to other players as well too. If you know expansion's coming in a year or two, you kind of have a get out of jail free card.
- [35:56]
Will
Yeah, I've been thinking about that. Yeah.
- [35:58]
Greg
Right. And like, of course the other team has to pick them up so you can't go wild. Right. You can't just be like, Mimi, here's $40 million. Right. You know what I mean? But if you got slightly make an overpay in the next year or two with this coming. And it's a guy that you can play like, you don't think he's going to be a complete zero by giving him an extra 2, 3, 4, 5 million, whatever it might be, like, you got an opportunity where, you know, it's as close to an amnesty clause as they're gonna have to ever coming back, where it's like, hey, we think Nene's 8 to 12, but we got to give him 15 to make sure that we lock this in. And two years from now, if it's not working out, like, we'll throw him in the expansion draft. And, you know, at that point, the salary cap's even higher. Someone's gonna probably take them. Like, it's. It's interesting to think about. It's funny that your brain went there as well.
- [36:40]
Will
Well, I was thinking about just with Tatum and Brown, right. Like, I was going like, that level. And Derrick White, when you think about those guys, as they get older and potentially like, you know, maybe Jalen Brown breaks down or Derrick White, he's the oldest of the three of them, his body starts to go with the physical style that he plays, how much he hits the floor, and a team is just looking for one of, like, a wily vet, you know, And I feel like Derrick White is one of those guys that, as much as I never want to see Derek White on another team, in my head, he, like, kind of makes sense for an expansion team. It's like, oh, yeah, like, Derek White's the real veteran presence that's going to hold it down in Seattle to make sure that we're off to a good start here, you know, and he'll. He will be like, in his mid-30s at that point, so, you know, it might be like a natural moving on point at that time.
- [37:28]
Greg
Yeah. And they could definitely see an attention. Be like, hey, we'll take one year of Derrick White at 30 million. You know what I mean? Even if he's not the same player anymore, like, that will work out for us. So it'll be interesting to see, but I think it's exciting. Seattle, Vegas. I love Seattle. Getting the team back. Seattle also, by the way, Lakers fans, they're taking back their history from the Thunder, in case, you know, you guys want to give your back to Minnesota. Just. Just saying. All right, last topic of the night here. We want to give. We're about a month left of the season here, I think. Basically exactly about a month.
- [37:58]
Will
The season left here remaining.
- [38:01]
Greg
Yeah. So it's time to check in here. All NBA nutcrunch time here. Let's give it a whirl. Let's see what we got. And Greg, I'll be honest, I did zero statistical like research for this. This was just, I literally wrote down in the notebook I have next to me here. I just kind of went like with, with like my gut feeling that I went back and checked against the standings if there's anybody I missed. And I wrote like a couple of like asterisks of like guys that I think are, are questionable. And I'll tell you, I got about 12 or 13 guys that I think are no doubt. And it's just a matter of what team they're on. And then there's like four or five guys and I'm like, you kind of throw them in a hat and I don't really care who you pick out for the last couple spots. Yeah, but that's kind of where I got to just from like an overall, overall process. What was yours like?
- [38:47]
Will
Yeah, I mean one of the things I, I've been thinking about is with these all NBA teams, how different would they actually be if you took away the 65 game rule? Like would it really affect how I'm voting? I don't know that it would, man. Like the, the Giannis's of the world. Giannis hasn't played at a first team all NBA level this year. You know, with the, especially with the Bucks just like not being early on.
- [39:11]
Greg
But yeah, yeah, but the Bucks, the Bucks suck.
- [39:15]
Will
You know what I mean? So like regardless of the stats that he's putting up, like you're not going to put him on first team all NBA for a team that's in the playing, it's just like it doesn't matter how many games he plays. So even a healthy Giannis hitting 65 with the, with the way the Bucks are playing this year, I probably would have him on a second team all NBA. Despite thinking he's a top five guy in the NBA. You know what I mean? Like I don't think he's had a season worthy of a top NBA team. So that was kind of the way I was thinking about it is like would it really make a difference? And at the end of the day I thought no.
- [39:47]
Greg
Yeah, I mean right now most of the guys that you would think you're going to be eligible or like kind of the guys that you would, you would have on that team. So let's, let's run through it here. I'll give you my first team, you tell me what you have different or if you have it the same. First team, I've got sga, I've got Wemby, I've got Jokic, I've got Cade, and I've got Jalen Brown.
- [40:10]
Will
Okay. I do. The only spot I'm currently considering is Luca over Cade. That's the only spot that's in my mind just because of how the Lakers have come on and how the Pistons have started to fall off. If those records even out a little bit more, I would probably go Luca over Cage. Just historically, he's just better than Kate is. Despite the defensive limitations, he's playing at a level right now. If you haven't tuned in to watch Lakers lately, like, Luca looks like Luca again. So if Luca looks like Luca and he's an average defender, then I'm gonna put him on that first team. All NBA. If the records even out and the Lakers hold that three spot, I think, yeah. In a. In a slightly tougher conference, I would probably say Luca is more deserving than Cade. Jalen Brown is staying on. My first email. NBA. Send the tape of tonight's game to anyone who has a problem with that.
- [41:00]
Greg
Yeah, in my head, it's those three for two spots is kind of what. What I'm thinking. And I'm with you. I think JB is basically, like, basically stamped on there. And Luca, to me, is the first guy off right now. And that's only because, I don't know, can the guy just play average defense for more than two weeks? Like, that's all. That's all I'm asking. Like. Like if he does that for the rest of the season and the Lakers are a three seed and, you know, the couple Lakers games I've watched in the last week, like, where he's been just Flames, like, you can't keep him off. He's Luca like it, like, as much as we can come on here with disdain at times, like, we're not dumbasses. Like, it's Luca. Like, there's a reason we did an emergency podcast for him. Getting traded as a Celtics podcast had nothing to do with us. It was that big of a deal because he's that type of guy. So I'm with you. Luke is the. The first name on my second team, so flip him and Cade for us. The other guys that I have on here are. I've got Ant Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, and Kawhi Leonard.
- [42:02]
Will
Yeah. I think the only guy that you could make the argument for to be on that Second team that you don't have listed is Maxi, right? So Maxi's probably exactly right. And I think we're kind of on the same page there. What's interesting is Maxi and Kawhi both are now in danger of not hitting 65 games.
- [42:21]
Greg
That's what I checked. And I was like, oh, I don't. I mean, Max is only like two, three games. I think Maxi is four games away or three games away when I looked. And so. But it's just like, I don't know how long this injury is going to keep him out for. So it's. That will get tough. So that's where I think to your earlier question of, like, would this change? That's where it starts to get weird, right? Where it's like, okay, we gotta, like, not find, not put Kawhi and Maxi on the second third team. And now like the list of guys that I have for the rest of the third team, there's only, I think, one or two guys that I'm like, gotta be on here. The rest I'm like, you could put them in a hat and pick them out. Like, I put. After tonight, I put Devin Booker as a. As a must make on there. Like, I. I got Devin Booker squarely on there. Another guy that I. The team is kind of performing strangely right now, so it's hard to justify as much or as strongly is Jamal Murray with the Nuggets, who had a really bad game against the Lakers the other night. But when Jokic was out, I expected them to collapse, and Jamal Murray did not let them collapse. And we saw that. Remember that game in Boston he had where he was like 16 point, 16 assists or something crazy. And I don't know, that moment for me really sticks out. And so unless the Nuggets like fall completely into the plan and then it feels weird giving them two. Like, I'm leaning Jamal Murray, but then I've got like three or four more guys that I'll bring up here in a second. But Those were the 13 that I had that I felt the best about. Where were you at with your third team?
- [43:54]
Will
Well, I think the hardest thing is, like, the guys that were on teams last year that are not going to be on teams this year. Right. We got Jalen Williams not going to play enough games. Halliburton obviously sat out the whole season. I don't think Towns has had a season worthy of it. He was third team last year. James Harden, I don't think he's worthy of it. He was third team last year. No Steph Curry because of games. LeBron. I don't think he's going to be eligible because of games. Evan Mobley hasn't had a season worthy of all NBA. He was second team last year and then first team Giannis is.
- [44:30]
Greg
Evan Mobley was second team all NBA last year.
- [44:32]
Will
He was, Yep. And Jason Tatum and Giannis were first team last year. So that's a lot of guys that just aren't going to be there this year. Right. So when you're getting into like the I'm making a Scotty Barnes third team all NBA case, it's just like, what are we even doing here? Like, he's a really good player, but is he really a top 15 guy? I don't know. Like, he's a hell of a defender and he does a lot for the Raptors team, but I feel like it would be weird to see Scotty Barnes on the third team all NBA.
- [45:01]
Greg
Yeah. Yeah. So the last, so last couple names that I have here are, I had the two Rockets guys, KD and Changun. Probably one of them needs to, to get on. I think the Rockets have not been
- [45:15]
Will
just a bad defender.
- [45:16]
Greg
Yeah, I would, I would lean KD as well too. And like there was a time this year where it felt like, oh, maybe they'll get both of them on. Doesn't feel like that right now.
- [45:22]
Will
So you're saying right now for you it'd be kd, Maxi and Murray and Booker, those four. Yeah, I think that's pretty good.
- [45:31]
Greg
And then my fifth. I think right now I put Bam down here because I wasn't really considering. When you drop 83 points, I guess you got to get considered, right? Yeah, like, at least then it's like, hey, remember Bam dropped 83. Oh, the season he was third team all NBA. Yeah, I remember when Bam did that. So I put Bam down, but I think right now it's got to be. I think it's Jalen Jones Johnson. Hawks won again tonight. They've won 10 straight. He put up a 24, 15, 13 triple double. He's put up a lot of nights like that. By the way, Nikhil Alexander Walker had 41 points in this game.
- [46:02]
Will
Jesus.
- [46:03]
Greg
9 of 14 from 3. But I, I just feel like Jalen Johnson's been pretty consistent with being a triple double threat and being kind of even across the boards. Like, you know, with, with his production. 23 points, 10 rebounds, 8 assists. Like those are pretty crazy numbers for a fourth year guy, right?
- [46:22]
Will
Yeah.
- [46:22]
Greg
So to me, I, I think Jalen Johnson is where I would Lean on that final spot. But yeah, I mean, maybe. Am I missing anybody else that I've. Have I not named anyone that you're Scotty Barnes I forgot to put on my list. But he would be in this consideration.
- [46:37]
Will
You know, I. I really don't think we're missing anybody. Maybe Jalen Duran. He only plays like 27 minutes a game though.
- [46:44]
Greg
I love Jalen Durham, but I just did that again. That. That feels like. That just doesn't feel right.
- [46:49]
Will
No, it doesn't. I. I don't think Denny Advia is going to be eligible. I know he.
- [46:54]
Greg
Yeah, he fell off with. With some games played.
- [46:57]
Will
Let's see. No, man, I don't think we're missing anybody. I think that's pretty much maxes out who's available. Like, you could make the Shangoon vs. Jalen Johnson argument maybe a Dear and Fox argument.
- [47:11]
Greg
But yeah, that's one guy that crept in was. Was the Aaron Fox. I. Look, I honestly, I think Chad's been a little underwhelming. Like, just offensively, like there hasn't. Like, he's still been really great defensively. So if you want to just say chat because the Thunder might end up with the best record in the NBA. Like you can make a chat case. I. I don't know. Just like the last couple times I've watched the Thunder, I'm just like, Chad, I thought you were like a offensive guy too. Like, I thought there was. There was more juice to you offensively. And it just. It just kind of hasn't been there. And then the Magic guys, like Paolo's been playing better, but I don't know if it's like, I can't give you like an all NBA right now. Like, and follows my guy. Turn it around.
- [47:49]
Will
Johnson's done more this year. Paolo.
- [47:51]
Greg
Exactly. So, yeah, I think it's like a group of like five, six. I guess that's it. That's like there's like two or three spots for like five to six guys who are like, I guess they're my final third team all NBA spot. So it'll get weird. And that's. That's where I think more so than first team all NBA. The 65 game rule comes in. But even that is like, I don't even know who. Who's gonna miss it this year that, you know, would you want to put LeBron there if he plays 55 games? Like, I think it really only gets questionable if it's like we're leaving Kawhi and Maxi off and they played 63 games.
- [48:22]
Will
Games.
- [48:22]
Greg
It's like, come on.
- [48:23]
Will
Well, you know, it's a rule. I didn't realize you can play 63 games as long as in two of those games. No, it's like, so you can play 65 games, but two of the games you can play under the 20 minute mark. So, like at the end of the season, they could throw them out there for like 15 minutes. And as long as they're good 15 minutes, they get the 65 games if they're not like 100 healthy. But at that point, like, is it worth it?
- [48:50]
Greg
Everyone's game in the system these days. We're, we're missing free throws and following opponents to get the 83 point. So, you know, it's all good. We're tanking left and right. It is what it is. It's all good. But that's interesting, man. Yeah, we'll keep an eye on it. I mean, I think, again, I think the more interesting questions are who's on what team? And you can see both of the edges of each, first, second, third team. That's kind of where I think the fun arguments are. And then the bottom of it is just, we'll see who ends up hanging around, who ends up making it. But that's gonna do it for this episode here of green with envy. This was a green with env. Post game live. Celtics win 120 to 112 coming up this week. Celtics got Golden State at home on Wednesday. Hit the road for a quick road trip to Memphis and then back home for potentially the future Eastern conference bound Minnesota Timberwolves. We will be back with you after the game on Sunday. I'll be traveling this week, so this will be our only podcast during the week. But make sure you guys are rocking with us on YouTube, Twitter, TikTok. Check us out, our guy Alex getting us all the clips that we need. All the clips that you need. So if you missed this content, don't worry. We'll have plenty of videos throughout the week. You guys will be able to catch us up, lock in on Spotify, wherever it is you listen to the podcast. Appreciate you guys listening to us. We will catch you Sunday after Celtics. Great Celtics, T Wolves. It'll be a fun game. I'm excited for that one.
- [50:08]
Will
Can't wait.
- [50:08]
Greg
That'll be. That'll be a good one in town.
- [50:11]
Will
So, you know, get to watch the game with my folks and then do a little pot after. Should be fun.
- [50:16]
Greg
All right. I like it. Well, that'll do it for us guys. Enjoy the rest of your week. We'll catch you guys later. Every time I get this high?
- [50:24]
Will
I lose my mind?
- [50:26]
Greg
It don't take much, no more
- [50:30]
Will
until
- [50:30]
Greg
I hit the floor? Every time I hit this high? It's you I find? It don't take much, no more until I'm at your dark?
- [50:46]
Northwestern Mutual Ad Narrator
You're juggling a lot, but you can still squeeze in a financial plan with the Northwestern Mutual financial advisor as your partner. It's not only possible, it's personalized. So if you're tying the knot, closing on a house, or welcoming a little one, you'll be ready for whatever life tosses your way. It's the right time to feel less stressed and more certain. That's a better way to money. Let's get started@nm.com the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.