Will (3:33)

So very, very average friend, but a very elite Jason Tatum fan is what I'm taking away from that story. I couldn't.

Greg (3:43)

She was like, wait, are you serious? Did they actually have their baby? I was like, yeah, they did. I got the text message this morning and she's, wow, you actually care more about Jason Tatum than anything else in the world. I was like, yeah, it's pretty much true.

Will (3:55)

I mean, listen to, to be fair to you, we host a show in which since basically when Jason Tatum went down, what was it? April, whatever it was, or, or May, early May, whatever it was. This has been lingering in our live. We. We podcast roughly twice a week, you know, sometimes more on weeks like this. Like this has been a story that has been prevalent and just looming in our lives two to three times a week. And with any research that we do with anything else that we frame a topic around, this has been lingering, lingering as a topic just right there in front of our faces. So when the news drops, it's hard not for it to feel consuming, especially as we've been kind of waiting on this, like on edge for the last like week, week and a half when we knew it started to get kind of real. And you know, I've been checking my phone a lot over the last like week or so seeing these shams updates, and every time it's like a 10 day contract for a guy I don't know about in the G league. It's always really disappointing, right? Yeah, it's like, like I wish shams. I wish there was almost like levels of guys that did, that did like the big breaking news, right? So it's like I don't, I don't really need to know about every 10 day contract that goes on in the NBA, because then I get my hopes up, right? So when that Shams notification hit, and I think actually the Celtics, you know, injury report is what broke before Shams did, which, again, massive testament to the way that the Celtics organization runs it. Not even Shams has a source inside there that's breaking that story early. That's a. That's a big shout out. Just the. The culture of the. Of the Celtics. But I saw Shams big breaking news. Jason Tatum's coming back on Friday. And I just started grinning like a buffoon. I didn't have anyone to share it with. I'm working at home solo dadding it this week, so I just took the time to enjoy it to myself. And, and, you know, our buddy Liptak texted us and I, I told him. I was like, I've just been grinning for about the last 30 minutes right now.

Greg (5:52)

It's just such a cool story, man, and it's just unprecedented in, in terms of returns from this injury. Right. I think with Jason Tatum's return, there are obviously some questions that, that we're going to have to talk about. Are there any questions that you have at the top of your mind?

Will (6:12)

I mean, it's so. It's funny. I. I joined. If you listen to our last podcast, we had Kevin lynch, who's a.

Greg (6:18)

From.

Will (6:18)

From the Cavs podcast that's also here at Blue Wire. I hopped on their show last night, talked a little bit about this because the news had. Had already broke. And I mean, my question is just the obvious one. Just how does he look like? I don't really have too many. I think a lot of everything else that people are going in, in pretty extreme directions on, like, can Tatum take his team back from Brown? Will he settle into, you know, you know, not. Not to, you know, be. Play under Jalen Brown now or, like, what? Like, that's going to be this big. And I, I honestly, like, there's parts of those extremes that are true, that there are, like, dynamics you have to kind of figure out. I want to see how Tate. I just want to see how Tatum looks, and I think it's going to kind of figure itself out. So I don't know that I have any lingering questions until I see what version of Tatum is. Because if, you know, I try to think of, like, some of these other guys coming back from injuries, and like, one of the guys that comes back and seems to come back pretty strong when he does is, like, Kevin Durant, like, just as an example of a guy who kind of comes back. And when you watch him within a game or two, sometimes in that first game you're like, that just looks like kd. You know what I mean? And so I think if Jason Tatum comes back, it just looks like Jason Tatum, which I'm not expecting that kind of. I'm like, okay, this is different. Like there's, there's less of a warm up. I'm expecting there to be a warm up. So for me, I want to see how he looks and what version, what percentage of Jason Tatum we have before. I get really concerned because these guys have played for so long together that I just don't think it's going to be that big of an issue.

Greg (7:47)

Interesting. I, I'm not even thinking about like concern level or I'm just wanting like the questions that I have. Just like when, when they reintegrate Tatum, like, what does that look like and how different is that from his historical role within the team? And I've been thinking a lot about the way Jason Tatum operates throughout a game. Jason Tatum historically is not someone who's a fast starter. He always kind of feels his way into a game. Last year was actually a departure from the norm. Where Jalen historically had been like the first quarter guy, right? Jalen would come out, yeah, he was the opener. He'd have 13 points in the first quarter. He'd be like getting out in transition. Tatum would take a backseat. Tatum would come out around like the six minute mark, and then he'd kind of work his way into the game a little bit more with the second unit. Last year he, he inserted himself into the first quarters a little bit more than I was accustomed to. Right. But when you think about the way that the Celtics have been playing and the way Jason Tatum is coming back, it'd be very easy for him to slide back into that role of just kind of seeing what the game needs. And I think people have this misperception nationally that Jason Tatum is one of these guys that goes out hunting shots because they see the highlights, they see the step back threes and all that. Jason Tatum is not shooting 25 shots a game, you know, putting himself above the team. He's always someone that basically has played point guard for the Celtics for the past three years. And he's the one that is the main facilitator. Jaylen Brown, you know, as much as he's done on the ball this year, they do use him in a lot of off ball situations. Jason Tatum is a phenomenal screener. He knows how to play the short role. He knows how to pick and pop. He's going to be able to fit his way into this offense, I think a lot better than people are just imagining, because when they think about two star wings, they think about, oh, there's not enough shots in a game and that's not how these guys have ever operated. And I think they play off each other really well and understand, especially Jaylen has understood when he's supposed to insert himself and when he's. When he's supposed to kind of take a back seat because Tatum kind of has a rhythm to the way that he plays and he has a rhythm to the way that he kind of gets into the flow of games.

Will (10:05)

And the thing about the Tatum, about Tatum coming back, that really eases me into him, like, to your point, being able to kind of shape shift into what's needed. His greatest skill set that we've talked about for several years is his greatest superstar asset, is that he is above average at everything, right? Like, there isn't something that he's below average at where you're like, well, we want to ease him in, but to your point, it's not like we can't use him in screens. No, he's a great screener, he's a great rebounder, he's a great facilitator. Like, there's all these different ways that he can insert himself without having to be the national media narrative of, well, what's he going to do? He needs the ball, right? Like, there's so many other things that he does and he's going to get the ball, he's going to have the ball. Like we've talked a lot about, you know, the Vuch trade for Anthony Simons. Part of it was, hey, if Tatum comes back, like, he's going to fill the ball handling and scoring void that we just traded away with Anthony Simons and so he's going to have the ball in his hands more in the Celtics. You know, when you look at this team like you've been yelling at Joe Missoula when they're up 20 in certain games, like get Peyton Pritchard off the court, it's because they only have three ball handling. Craig. They only have three guys that they really trust to dribble the basketball and set their offense. And now they have a fourth and Jason Tatum, right? So he's going to be able to fit in depending on the different lineups. And I think his ability to shape shift both on offense and defense is going to make it an easier return for him than guys that you have to fit in in a very certain way. Right? Like, he's going to be able to do it where he. You know, I think to your point earlier about, you know, letting Jalen take. Going back to kind of like Jalen taking the opening, I do feel like at least in this game, he's got to get a touch early. Like, you got. You got to get. You got to give him whenever he gets in, whether he starts or whether he comes off the bench. I think he needs to get at least a touch early just to get the. The feel and, you know, get that pop from the crowd because, you know, you know, if he comes off the bench, the pop from the crowd is going to be insane. And then, you know, the first time he has the ball and he's either up at the top of the key or he gets the ball on the wing, that crowd is going to be ready to just let it fly if he makes a shot when he first gets the ball. And so I think you just got to kind of get that out of the way. It's like a band aid right off. Just. Just go. Just go. Just go right into it. But I think in general, your sentiment is correct, and I'm excited to see how Joe Missoula uses him initially and then eventually, over time, tries to figure out what this looks like. Because I think initially you just kind of figure he's going to take some of those young wings mom minutes. But I don't know. I mean, those guys have been so good, it's hard to keep all a lot of them out of the lineup. So it's gonna be interesting to see how Joe kind of manipulates us.

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Greg (14:02)

Yeah, Bill Simmons had this theory that they were using Baylor Shireman as like a Tatum proxy over the past few weeks in the starting lineup. I disagree a hundred percent with that.

Will (14:13)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're on the same page. He kept, he kept saying it and he said it once and I was like, that's a weird thing to say. I don't think that's right. Then he went back to it couple times, but I was like, dude, this is not a good take for you to like be doubling down on. This is not.

Greg (14:23)

It makes no sense. It makes no sense whatsoever. Like, Baylor Shireman is the primary defender on like the best guys on the other team. He's like the point of attack defender. He's flying out of the corners for rebounds and all this stuff. It's like that's not what Jason Tatum is.

Will (14:40)

He only handles the ball when he, when he drives closeouts. Like he's not initiating offense or anything.

Greg (14:45)

It didn't make any sense. Didn't tough take for, for our guy, Bill. But I do think that one of the things I'm going to be really interested in is how that, how the, how Joe plays with the rotations and how he plays with the lineup combinations. Right. So I'm imagining Baylor stays in the starting lineup. I just think it makes a little bit more sense to bring Sam off the bench just to have this like supercharged bench unit. Right. I do think it's going to be really interesting to see how Tatum plays with Vuchevic. I have not been a huge fan of this Vucovic experiment thus far, but the whole point of getting Vucovic is because he is, you know, a facsimile of what KP had brought to the team, what Al Horford brought to the team. And Tatum had great chemistry with those guys. Right. So that's what you're hoping. But at some point we're going to have to make a decision. Is Vuchevic the second unit center or does it just make more sense to go with Garza and like all of the energy that he brings because Vucha hasn't brought enough on either end of the court for me to be like, yeah, Vucc definitely deserves to be our second string center. Like it's taking him time to acclimate to this team and it all depends on how he meshes with Tatum. Whether or not in the last 10 games of the season we see Joe be like, you know what Vuch we tried. It didn't work. We got to go with Garza because this is that we know that Garza works.

Will (16:07)

Yeah, it's interesting you beat me to the question I was going to ask you is like who are you most excited out of, out of the new crop? We know how he plays with Jay, we know how he plays with Derek White, Peyton Pritchard. Like, and I think Vuch is probably the right answer because I think he's either going to unlock, vouch or to your point, it's going to be what's the difference between him and Garza, you know what I mean? Like that that's kind of what we're going to find out. And, and ultimately if it doesn't really unlock V more than, than what we've seen, I think it just becomes Joe will just kind of have to, you know, the way that he's pulled the right strings at different times with whether it's the wing rotation, the big rotation earlier in the year, like it's going to become that second unit is let's try Garza tonight. Garza doesn't have it. Let's try Vuch then it's gonna go back to. Okay, Vuch has the role now. Okay, Vuch doesn't have it tonight. Let's go back to Garza. And so, but I think Vuch is going to get first crack at it for all the reasons that you mentioned. He's got the pedigree. He's got, you know, a little bit of a higher ceiling than Garza as you saw in like that Brooklyn game where he can go for 28 and 11. Like that's not really a thing that could happen with Garza. So I think with Vuch it will be interesting to see what that looks like with, with him and Tatum on the court. And you know, honestly Greg, one of the things with Tatum that I'm really interested is on the defensive end because the Celtics have played really small for most of the year like Jalen Brown or Sam Houser or one of these wings that's just like overachieving on the boards. Whether it's Ugo with 16 boards earlier this week or Baylor Shireman having double digit board games. Like all these guys that I'm listing here are like six, seven and under, right? Like that's been the majority of power forward of the nominal power forward for the Celtics this season. So now inserting Jason Tatum, who's 610 and the best rebounder on this team next to Nemi Escada, next to, you know, Vuch or Garza with those, all those guys I mentioned kind of sliding down to a role in the, you know, in the three spot, if you will. I'm very curious to see how that, how that plays the Celtics defense. And I'm meaning this in a positive way. Like, I think, I don't see it the downside to it, but I think it's going to be interesting for a team that has played relatively undersized all season to get a 610 guyback. That's your best rebounder. Like I, I'm. Even though this defense is already on the upswing, I feel like that can only be a massive positive for this team going back regardless of all the other offensive stuff that I think a lot of people are going to focus on more.

Greg (18:23)

So, yeah, I could see the Celtics being the best rebounding team in the league with Tatum just because of how they gang rebound and how those guys off the wing have been crashing the boards all season long. Shireman, Ugo, to, to your point and then Tatum, you bring in the best rebounder on the roster. Can we stop calling him 610? Well, he's not 610. He's like six, eight and a half. Like that's, that's one of those things where Scal says 610 and I'm like, He's not 610, bro. He's not 610. Like NBA, maybe with shoes. He's 610, but he's not 6 10. But I do think that one of the things with Tatum, you know, defensively he has been able to guard one through five, right? We saw that in the finals. He guarded Derek Lively, he guarded Daniel Gafford, and he played point guard on the other end. It was just like one of the most amazing performances that people just like gloss over because he didn't win finals mvp. And will he still have the same versatility to guard down? We know Tatum's going to be able to guard up, but will he be able to guard down? And if he can't guard down the way that he has in the past, will that even be an issue because of the guys that we have now at the Point of attack, like Jordan Walsh, like Ugo Gonzalez, like Baylor Shireman. Right. I think those three guys, their ability to guard at the point of attack is actually going to take a lot of pressure off of Tatum. So he only has to focus on guarding in the front court because that's the hole that this team has as they have a six, eight and a half sized hole that they've had all season. And Jason Tatum is coming back to fill that. Yeah.

Will (19:53)

And like, I'm looking just at the schedule right now and it's funny because there's a lot of guards coming up where it's like, oh, maybe that could be a place where, where Tatum needs to go guard, Donovan Mitchell needs to go guard. You know, SGA that we saw and I, I can't imagine they do that right away off the bat here. But like, long term, looking at some of these options, Devin Booker's, you know, there's different guys. Anthony Edwards a couple weeks away from now, and it will be interesting to see because I think to your point, like Jason Tatum easing into covering bigger guys is going to be an easier transition than chasing an sga, than chasing, you know, the, the Devin Booker or the Donovan Mitchell, like, that's going to be pretty taxing and it's going to be something. I think the Celtics, by the time we get to the playoffs, if everything is trending correctly with Tatum, they're probably going to want to see what that looks like if, you know, if everything is going well. But I would imagine it wouldn't be in this first week. Right. Like, that feels a bit much. So it'll be interesting to see, you know, how that transitions back. What are some of the other things that you're looking for with Tatum right now? Like I said, like we talked about, obviously we just want to see how healthy he looks, how he's, he's moving out there. But any indicators that you're looking for that will, will give you a read on that or what are some of the things that you're going to be. Be locked into tonight?

Greg (21:02)

It's a great question. I don't know that I'm going to be able to like, turn off the emotional part of my brain and watch the game from like an objective view. I'm just gonna be so, like, excited to see him. One thing I, I did want to bring up is that, you know, we were talking about Vuchevic and my whole thing all year was I wanted to see Tatum play with Simons. I wasn't a fan of the trade. Simons is out. He's out for the rest of the year. He, he aggravated a wrist fracture. He's not even playing for the Bulls.

Will (21:26)

So apparently that's from when he was in Boston too, which we never heard about.

Greg (21:29)

Right. So that's kind of a moot point that, that I've kind of been clamoring on. So like Vuch has found money in that sense. So it's, it's only, it's only additive. I think with Tatum, one of the more interesting things will be the first crunch time moment in who gets the ball. Who does Joe Missoula drop a play for? Is there any push and pull with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum there? I don't think there will be. I think, I think they'll fall into place pretty quickly. The ball is going to be in Tatum's hands solely because of Jalen Brown struggles at the free throw line. That's the whole reason why I don't trust Jalen in the last five minutes of a game because he doesn't hit free throws in the clutch.

Will (22:11)

Right.

Greg (22:11)

And Jason Tatum historically is a great fourth quarter free throw shooter. Has great stats in, in the clutch. Like if you look at some of his stats, we can talk about these a little bit more in the post game after tonight or we can save him for another time. But he's historically one of the like all time great fourth quarter shooters and like last game tying buckets in fourth quarter and overtime go at game tying or go ahead like Jason Tatum's at the top of that list. So I think Tatum is going to continue to get those opportunities. What are your thoughts on that?

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Will (23:42)

I mean, I think that's definitely going to be the most scrutinized point that people are waiting for to be able to jump in and make radical conclusions off whatever happens. The first time we get into a clutch game and one of them has the ball and the other doesn't. And, you know, look at the body language and all that. I talked about this a little bit last night on the. On the Cavs podcast that I was on. I'm. I'm not super worried because, yes, I think if you look at historically, like, Tatum's numbers, historically are. Are really great, as you just pointed out. But if you look at the breakdown of, like, you know, who has the ball or who gets the shot, it's probably like, 60, 40 Tatum. 65, 35 Tatum. Like, it's not like Jalen Brown is just off to the side when we get to the end of the game. Like, think about Eastern Conference finals two years ago. Like, who was the play drawn up for? They hit the shot in the corner against the Pacers to. To save game one. Like, that was Jalen Brown. Right. Like, so it's. It's not as if it's always just been set in stone. Like, Jason Tatum will have the ball last minute. Jalen Brown, if. If something else breaks down, maybe he gets a touch like Joe Missoula's drum plays up for Jalen Brown late in games.

Greg (24:43)

I think about the play in the fight in the finals where Jalen had that little midi over Tim Hardaway Jr.

Will (24:49)

Right.

Greg (24:49)

Like, that was one of the biggest buckets in the finals. Yeah.

Will (24:51)

Yeah. So. So that's why I don't think it's going to be that big of a deal. I think it's going to get overblown the first time it happens, because everyone's just going to overanalyze. If Jalen makes the shot, it's his team. Now. If he misses the shot, it's this should have gone to Tatum or it's Tatum, you know, didn't celebrate enough, or it's going to be something ridiculous. So I'm already ready for those ridiculous narratives to come out. But at the end of the day, I. I don't. I think that part of, you know, when you get to the end of the game, I don't think that's going to be all that dissimilar to what we've seen before. I think to your point, it makes more sense when Tatum is at full strength or close to full strength because of his playmaking, his ball handling and his, his, his free throw ability that he makes more sense. If there's, you know, if you're setting up a play and he's going to be dribbling like it's going to be, it's going to be Tatum. But if you're doing like an ATO or something, like doing like a sideline, out of bounds play, like Jalen Brown is absolutely still in the mix and like there's different things that, that you'll be able to do. So I'm not very worried about the end of the game from an internal standpoint. I think externally it's going to get annoying when that happens, but I'm excited to see what that looks like. And you know, Greg, I, some of the things that have changed with this team is Joe Missoula's letting you know Jalen Brown kind of operate in that mid range, not really worrying. You have to only shoot threes. And I'm, that's what I'm curious to see. If Tatum takes a little bit of a page from that. Right. That's something you and I have, have talked about, that those 10 threes could really be seven and those other three shots could be at the rim or in the mid range somewhere. And I think that it would make Tatum more efficient. So I'm curious if he's watched this. This is something we've speculated on all years. Like has he watched Jaylen Brown here and been like, okay, maybe I can actually take a little bit of that from what Jalen's done and add that to my bag. And you know, I don't think we're going to look into that too much tonight. Tonight's just all about feel and vibes. But I think throughout the season and into the playoffs, like, I think that will be something that will be interesting to keep an eye on.

Greg (26:38)

Yeah, there's, there's a good article on Jalen Brown and just like his, his operation out of the mid range on Celtics blog, just talking about how like this timing of Jason Tatum coming back couldn't come at a better time for Jaylen Brown who looks tired. He just looks tired out there on the court and if you look at him. So through the first 34 games, this is coming directly from Celtics blog. Brown was averaging 30 points on 21.7 field goal attempts, 6.3 rebounds, five assists per game on 51 shooting from the field, 37 shooting from three. Since that 50 point game against the Clippers, he is 27.5 points per game on 23 field goal attempts, 44.1% shooting from the field, 31.9 from three point range, and then elite mid range shooting. Early in the season he shot fifth. Through December he shot 50.6% on 7.7 attempts per game between the three point line and the 1010ft from the rim. Over the next two months he was at 39% on 6.7 shots and only 38% in January.

Will (27:49)

Yeah, no, I mean a, it's a, it's a great call out and I think it's something that we've seen since the Simon's trade that there's just a little less juice as far as scoring the basketball. There's a little less ball handling. There's, you know, even though Simons wasn't like a crazy playmaker, he had gravity which opened up playmaking. And every once in a while Simon's would throw a password. I was like, okay, you do have some playmaking skills.

Greg (28:10)

That was, dude, I missed it.

Will (28:11)

Kind of everyone missed him. He was, he was fun. Don't get me wrong, he was fun. I still think with this Vuch trade it made more sense roster balance wise if this is the case, which it is now with, with, with Tatum coming back. But again, I think the point of Tatum, excuse me, of Jalen needing like a little bit of relief, Tatum coming back at this time is such a great call out that it's going to help in all of these other areas, right? It's going to open up more space on the floor. It's going to be someone else that can take some ball handling. You know, as Peyton Pritchett's had, you know, some ups and downs over the last couple. Like, like I think even more than Jalen, it might be, you know, we've seen Derrick White struggle shooting all year. Treasure might be hitting a little bit of a wall with some of, you know, I don't know what happened to some of his confidence over the last few games, but I think inserting Tatum and putting people back to their regular roles but with more confidence and more experience from what they've had. Like again this all feels like it can really only be positive. Like I don't see many downsides right now for shockingly for a first team all NBA guy coming back, but I just don't see the, the chemistry or whatever questions that people are bringing up. Like, like Jason Tatum is just the type of guy that from what we've seen mentally, his ego, the way that he plays that I think it's going to be a more seamless transition. Not to say there won't be, hey, we got to figure this out. This is a little bit different. There will be those moments, but I think it's going to be a smoother transition than a lot of people think.

Greg (29:34)

I found that stat about Tatum in, in the fourth quarter, so this is from Real GM. He shoots 51.7% on game tying or go ahead field goals in the last 24 seconds of the fourth quarter or overtime. That ranks first out of 155 players who have attempted at least 25 such shots since 1996.

Will (29:57)

That's pretty crazy. And I feel like people don't consider him clutch, which is insane. Just insane.

Greg (30:02)

Crazy.

Will (30:02)

Well, crazy. The day is here, Greg. 289 days in the making. Jason Tatum makes his return as Cooper Flag. I think looks like seemed like he's gonna play. So I think Cooper Flag will be there tonight as well. So we got. We got a fun game tonight, man. I'm. I'm really excited for everything that we have tonight. For those listening here joining us for a little coffee and Celtics, we are going to be back here post game. We'll have a green with envy post game live. It's that type of. That type of event, that type of day where we're gonna double dip. So we'll sign off for now. Hopefully you guys get a chance to check this out leading up to the game and then right afterwards, come lock in with us. YouTube, Twitter, come join us, man. It's going to be a celebration. We're going to talk about every single angle that we see in this game. Big, small, and everything in between. Greg, it's going to be a fun day. I'm looking forward to the night.

Greg (30:50)

Same brother.

Will (30:52)

All right, we'll see you guys later tonight. Enjoy your day. Peace.

Greg (31:03)

Until I hit the floor Every time

Will (31:07)

I get this high it's you I find you don't take much no more Until I met your dark.