← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Our Early Thoughts on Jayson Tatum's Performance + Mediocre Life Updates
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- [00:00]
Greg
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- [00:54]
Will
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- [00:57]
Greg
Find out more on apple.com Mac this is Mike Gorman and you're listening to
- [01:02]
Will
Green with Envy with Will and Greg. All right, everybody. Celtics fall to the Timberwolves yesterday, 102 to 92. No Anthony Edwards. We'll dissect a little bit about what happened on Sunday night, the TD Garden. Plus we'll look around. It's been a little bit since we've been on the mics here, so we'll hit some news and notes. Specifically, Cade Cunningham out. What does that mean for the Celtics? Collapse long. What does it mean for the rest of the regular season? And then what does it mean for the playoffs? We do our weekly NBA playoff picture check in. This is Green with Envy. You guys know the deal. Let's lock in. What up, what up, what up? Welcome into another edition of Dream with Envy. As always, this is your boy will be checking in. How you doing? How you living? Coming at you on a Monday night. Yeah, you never know where that recording schedule is gonna land. Keep you on your toes here. Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Mink is Greg. It's, it's been a while since we've done a Monday night no game. Got a little chance to kind of, kind of freestyle here a bit. I'm, I'm feeling like we have a structure, but I'm also feeling like there is no structure and I kind of like it. I don't know where this podcast is going to go.
- [02:33]
Greg
I love that, man. I think that's when the magic happens with Green with Envy. So we'll see what happens tonight. We have no plan. We just, we're just going to shoot the. We're going to talk, maybe pass the rock. Who knows? Let's go.
- [02:43]
Will
Yeah. So if you're joining us here, we're going live. So if you guys end up in the chat, I see my guy. Cool. Genuine. Phil's in there. Feel free to drop some questions in here. We'll hit some topics that you guys want us to. But I figured. Good place to start here is. Let's start with the Celtics most recent game here last night against the Timberwolves, which really just turned into the Bones Highland experience. Just giving everybody the little, little finger waves around the, around the court last night. Celtics lose that game 102 to 92. No Anthony Edwards in that game. And you know, Greg, I mean, let's talk about this game. But at the end of the day, when you shoot 30 under, when you shoot under 36 from the field and under 28 from three, probably not gonna lose. Not gonna win a lot of basketball games. You're gonna lose a lot of basketball games.
- [03:29]
Greg
You know, it's funny, I saw so much talk about Bones Highland, but Ayo Disunmo was the guy that just stood out to me. I thought he was the best player on the court.
- [03:37]
Will
He's in the thumbnail. I, I think, I think so too. I love Ayo, by the way. I love that pickup for the, for the table. That was, that was a underrated trade
- [03:44]
Greg
deadline pickup for sure. And I remember seeing him on the Bulls a couple years ago, his rookie year where he was doing some stuff with his explosiveness and his ability to get to the rim and finish strong through contact, where I was surprised he didn't pop more with Chicago. And you know, Chicago is just this middling team that didn't really have any sort of direction. But when you see him unleashed in transition yesterday, right, because that's basically what the wolves did. They, they went small, they spread the floor and they're able to just get up and down the court because the Celtics defense, when they had the half court offense and Rudy Gober, the T Wolves couldn't really generate much offense. And when they went small with the sun Mo just doing whatever he wanted to do in transition and Bones Highland being able to get up and down the floor. Same things with Jaden McDaniels, Nas Reed taking advantage of cross matches, all the stuff that they were doing that was so great out of the T Wolves. Ayo was a guy that throughout the entire game was controlling the tempo on both sides of the court. Did an unbelievable job on Jalen Brown. I thought he really frustrated Jalen. Haven't seen Jalen that frustrated in a game in quite some time. But it was just really impressive stuff out of the Wolves without Anthony Edwards and with a relatively new look with Disumo running point guard with Bone Highlands at the two.
- [04:58]
Will
Yeah, it was interesting look from the T Wolves. Like you said, both AO and Jaden led the way with playing 32 plus minutes last night. And not sure if you caught Jalen's comments last night, but essentially he said, like, kind of when the game's slipping, you kind of. Sometimes you either you. You put your head down and you kind of force the issue or you need to be patient. He said, in this case, forced. It needed to be more patient. And I think some of that was a byproduct of obviously ao, but I think in general, and this is something I wanted to ask you about, Greg, is yesterday, this was a game for me of. Of runs in which the Celtics had two nice runs and the Wolves had two runs that just were belt to ass. And that was kind of the end of the game, right? Those. Those were kind of the. The way. That part of the way that I looked at the game yesterday and when it flipped for the T Wolves was a lot like you said, they went smaller and they went super aggressive, right? Like they went. They. They attacked. And this is something that we have talked about, or not even talked about, talked around is the Celtics lack of. Of ball handling, right? That there really isn't that large of a depth of true ball handling on the team. And that was part of the biggest boon of, you know, of the many boons of Jason Tatum coming back, because it's like, holy, we have another guy that can dribble the basketball. We've been surviving with essentially three guys, three and a half guys. I'll give. I'll give Anthony Simons a half when he was here of three and a half guys that could handle the basketball. And so the Wolves just decided we're just going to be up on you, you know, front to back, right? Like they. They really turned up the pressure probably about midway through end of that first quarter and then through the rest of the game. And it felt like it really kind of got to the Celtics. Do you think that could be a blueprint that. That others would emulate because, you know, or do the Wolves just have the personnel that. That it made sense for them to. To kind of go that route?
- [06:44]
Greg
It's a little bit of both. I think the teams that have the personnel will definitely utilize the blueprint. And then other teams that maybe can't crack a code of the Celtics for whatever reason, even if they don't have the personnel, they might try it out. But when you look at teams, a team that comes to mind is like Philly, right. Philly doesn't necessarily have the personnel to. To do that to the Celtics. But when you think of a team like Toronto, if you saw. If the Celtics saw Toronto in the playoffs, they do have the personnel where they could turn up the pressure. Scotty Barnes, the, the, the rookie Murray Boyles, whatever his, his name is, Jamal Chad, like all those guys that can really get up and guard. There's RJ Barrett, we've seen him be a good defender on the Jays in the past. There are some teams out there that if you think about a matchup with the Celtics in the playoffs, they could at least look to a game like this and say, you know what, let's turn the heat up on the Celtics. Let's see if they can still execute when we deny the first pass, when we guard Jason Tatum 94ft and make him prove that he's able to handle the pressure that he's been able to handle in the past, but didn't look so great against the pressure last night. Right. Derrick White, who we. We' said has functional ball handling skills, but isn't a pure point guard. Peyton Pritchard has the best handle on the team, but you know, he has his limitations as well. Jaylen Brown, much maligned ball handling against pressure. Right. So there's a, There's a whole bunch of guys on the team that have question marks right now against pressure. And I do think the Wolves were able to tap into something yesterday, and I do think a lot of it started with them trying to get Tatum going in the third quarter because I thought that it turned into a little bit too much one on one. There are multiple possessions where Tatum went one on one against McDaniels from half court and was just like dribbling the ball for 17 seconds before he ended up making a good pass. But he like fought through that pressure for 17 seconds.
- [08:35]
Will
Yeah, this was a great call out, I thought, by Jamal Crawford on the, on the broadcast where it was right after the Celtics. I think it's basically the play you're referring to where Tatum has the ball for the whole time. I think he ends up finding maybe Pritchard in the corner because Bones Highland sagged off. But it was, but it was like you said, Tatum had the ball for 17 seconds of that and then makes the pass. And Crawford said, exactly what I was thinking. I was like, that was really difficult, right? Like, that was. That is not how we want to run our offense. Right. And, and for the Wolves, even though they lost that possession, they kind of won the battle in the sense that, like, if we're going to make you work that hard, cool, fine. You got Peyton Pritchard on his tiptoes in the corner on a shot where, you know, a normal rotation guy for us, Bone Thailand isn't playing 30 minutes and that's how you generated your points. Cool. We'll. We'll live with that all day, you know, and it was interesting because, you know, Tatum put up a, put up a donut in the first half, right? So I do think there was a pretty strong emphasis of like, we got to figure out. I think that's one of the things and we should go to kind of our Jason Tatum check in right now. I think that's like a good place for us to go is I still think there's a little bit of figuring it out as to how not integrating Tatum, but just finding Tatum's rhythm, right? Like, like, what's the balance of running the offense that led us to the number one, number two offensive rated team season versus this guy's. Your best, second best player, maybe second best player for this year, historically your best player over the last five years. Like, how do you work him back in? And we're now, what are we, eight games into, Tatum coming back six and two in those games, Tatum's 19 points, 8.9 rebounds, 3.3 assists, but only 39 from the field, 29, three. Again, these are all things I think we can expect. But I'm curious to get your thoughts on what you're seeing out there as far as that. That reintegration or trying to find that, that, that rhythm.
- [10:29]
Greg
I mean, you saw. Did you see the clip of Jalen, like kind of telling Tatum at one point he needs to play with a little bit more fluidity and he's like, kind of like showing like jump up, like get into a rhythm and he's like trying to coach him up on the court. And when you see that, you realize, like, it's probably very much a mental thing with Tatum where he just doesn't have that rhythm on the court. But then you think, historically, like, there have been plenty of games we've seen this out of Jason Tatum. Even when he's completely healthy, where he has, you know, he goes scoreless for the first half or, you know, he has one of those. One for 15 games going into the fourth quarter and he just like hasn't been able to figure out the touch around the basket, the three point shots not going. He seems to be in his own head still doing all the other stuff on the court. But it's like, oh, why are you struggling to score the ball right now? I do, I don't think it has to do anything with that. What I'm talking about. I ruled that out. I don't think it's just like, oh, this is Tatum struggling, just like Tatum has struggled in the past. I do think it's purely based off of him coming back from the injury at this point because he just doesn't have a good rhythm driving to the basket right now. And you can see as well when he's dribbling the ball and handling on the perimeter, there's just way more mishandles than you normally see out of. Jason Tatum, who typically has the ball on a string, is one of the best ball handlers in the league at 6:9. Right. Like, I see a little bit more like he looks more like Brandon Ingram than he looks like Jason Tatum right now. I think is probably the best way to describe, like the way that he's playing where there's, there's some stuff that is fluid and it's nice and he gets to his spot, but there's just like a little bit something lacking. And I think that's just the rust and needing to shake that rust off. But he's not playing like the Jason Tatum that we were, you know, that we've been seeing for the past five years. But I don't think anybody was expecting that. So I'm not worried about it. I just want to see him find that rhythm and play with a little bit more freedom at some point in this comeback because it was such a important thing for him and for the team to get back this season.
- [12:28]
Will
Yeah. For anyone out there that's worried, you're nuts, like, chill, like, like go smoke some weed or something. Like, like just calm down because, like, we didn't even expect him to play this year. Right? So this, what he's going through right now, part of the point of this is so that, you know, because I, I think one thing that we sometimes including myself in this lose sight of for this year, this is all gravy, right? Like, this is not like, we're not supposed to be like, I do think right now we're talking about the playoff picture. Like, like not to. Or to Tease us out a little bit. Like, I think that second round matchup, which is looking like it's going to be Celtics, Knicks, just depending on who has home court. I think that's for the Eastern Conference. I really do. Like, just from all the teams that I've seen, for some of the reasons that we're going to talk about with Kate or whatever, like, I think that's the series now. We didn't think that was going to be the case going into the season, right. Because we weren't even sure if Tatum was going to play three games in. You and I were like, fold it up. Let's go get AJ Debanza. Like, you know, like. Like, that's. That's kind of where this. This season, we thought it was going to probably fall. Realistically, somewhere in the middle of that, like, let's have a fun time. Let's learn a little bit about ourselves and we'll. We'll figure it out next year and hit the ground running. This is all still part of that. That kind of gravy, which has changed from what, like, we thought it could be, but it's all still part of the. Tatum kind of getting his training wheels back right now with the rest of this regular season. And the upside ceiling that still remains for this team is that somehow in the postseason, the Tatum that we know as Jason Tatum just all of a sudden shows up. And we knew that that was never going to happen in four games, in five games. That's why you and I had looked at the schedule so meticulously, and we're like, he's. If he's not back by this date with 15 games to get something going, like, it just doesn't even make sense, right? Because, like, a Matt, like, we're eight games in, this could be the second round of the playoffs right now if we just, like, screw it, we'll throw them in last week of the season, or we'll throw them in, you know, right when the playoffs start. And so this is still all a part of. Of that process. And I think sometimes, myself included, gotta just check yourself like this right now should be what's potentially happening. Eight games into next season, and we're still in this season, and we're in second place in the Eastern Conference. And ultimately, it is what it is. The upside of what this season ends up being for the Celtics will be, hey, does after 25 games, all of a sudden, middle of round two, does Jason Tatum turn back into Jason Tatum? He might. He might not. And if he doesn't I think we have to be okay with that, knowing the circumstances. But it is hot. But it does trick your mind when you see the opportunity that is out there.
- [15:04]
Greg
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- [15:10]
Will
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- [15:12]
Greg
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- [15:16]
Will
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Greg
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- [15:32]
Will
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Greg
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Will
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- [16:11]
Greg
And I do want to address a question in the chat here from cool, genuine Phil 3051, because I do think this has to do a little bit. With the Celtics struggles in the game last night and the offense just looking a little clunky since Jayson Tatum has come back, Sam Houser continues to just not be great out there on the court. He continues to struggle shooting the ball defensively. You know, he, he's a good defender, but he's never going to be like a, a defender. He's a serviceable defender. He's going to be someone that you hope the other team is going to go out of their way to disrupt the flow of their offense to attack him because he's going to hold up better than the other team expects. Right? That's what Sam Houser is. He's not going to be a shutdown defender. He's not Drew Holiday out there. He's not Jaylen Brown. He's not Jason Tatum. I think Sam Houser. Does he need to go to the bench? I would say selectively. I think it's more we don't need to have a set starting five with that Sam Houser spot. I think Missoula needs to look at that as the swing spot based off of the matchup and not just like Say, hey, we're. We're going to develop the rhythm with this starting five. This is our go to five. We sink or we swim with Sam Houser as our fifth starter. Right. I think if that is the philosophy right now, I think that's a little misguided because I don't think Sam is enough of an added value just because he is. When he's on fire. He's one of the best shooters in the league. I don't think that's enough to say the Celtics win a championship or are a contender because Sam Houser's in the starting lineup versus a Baylor Shireman. I think the gap is close enough where you can look at it matchup based and say, tonight's a Baylor game. We need Baylor out there. More point of attack defender. We need a little bit more shooting with the spacing we need. We need Sam Houser out there. Right. Because the one argument that you can make is, hey, Nemi Esqueda is a pick and roll big who's going to roll hard to the basket. And we get. We're going to need four floor spacers around him. Sam Houser is one of those guys. He has chemistry, he knows where to move. But Baylor Charman also can knock down the three, especially the corner three. So I think the gap as shooters, especially right now where Sam is struggling. So. So apparently from three, it just should be more of a give and take with those two guys.
- [18:21]
Will
Yeah. I mean, again, it's always interesting because I, I don't particularly care who starts most times. And like last night, you know, Sam plays 18 minutes, Charming plays 28. Right. So it. It kind of sometimes doesn't. It's misleading by the question of, like, should this person be starting when the backup, the theoretical quote unquote backup is playing nearly double their minutes. Right. Like, it's so, to me, I don't know that Sam needs to go to the bench like you're saying. And there is something about Sam's proven shooting ability, even though he's not shooting it right now, like, he's at a point in his career where there's not a team in this league that I think is going to be like, okay, sagging off of Sam Houser. Right. Even if he's struggling. Whereas even though Sherman's hit knocking down the three, there is still teams that will challenge that. Right. And. And I would say I'm probably not at the point where I'm confident. I think Baylor Simon's a solid shooter, but there's definitely a world in which you know, they just leave Baylor, and I could see Baylor, you know, not. Not knocking down the shots. And again, neither is Sam right now. And so there's just something about that consistent gravity, which as. As I have the. The gravity which I. Which I actually really thought would be. That'd be a good nickname for. For someone in the NBA, right? Yo, just make sure you get gravity. Yeah, I'm gonna take gravity. Gravity, I feel like, would be a. Would be a good nickname for. For a shooter in the NBA. Thought about that when I got this hat, but. Yeah, but I mean, I think ultimately, you know, if. If I think it depends just who's getting the. The bulk of the playing time. I'm just never gonna be super caught up on a spot that can easily rotate as to being who starts and who doesn't. To me, it's who gets the majority of the time, and then ultimately, who closes would be the biggest thing. Anything else from this game last night that. That stood out to you, Greg, that you wanted to hit?
- [20:14]
Greg
No, I think I'm good. I think I'm good.
- [20:16]
Will
Okay. I got one on it. Yeah. I got one thing that I want to hit, though. And Derrick White has made two of my favorite plays this season, both in games. The Celtics got their ass kicked. And it makes me really upset because I really like these plays. So I want to just talk about them, and I want to show them here real quick. So the first one happened against Charlotte, whatever It was, like, three weeks ago. And for those of you watching on YouTube, I'm gonna play that clip right now.
- [20:40]
Greg
That's how you win. Oh, yeah.
- [20:43]
Will
Derek White with a takeaway. We're not gonna watch the rest of that clip because it doesn't go so well. They let it go for way too long, but that play was amazing. And last night, Randall with a shot
- [20:53]
Greg
clock running down, but they turn it into easy buckets.
- [20:56]
Will
And another still by the. I love those plays, Greg. The fact that he's guarding the guy with the ball in each of those and then ends up in the spot of where the guy handling the ball is throwing to and. And not just, like, getting there and tipping it. He's literally standing in, like, two hand catches as if the ball was meant to be thrown to him. Like, those are incredible anticipation plays. And Derrick White, like, I. It's really tough because we're so locked on the Celtics that, like, when it comes to defense, like, Wendy's gonna win defensive player of the year, as he should. No doubt about it. But, like, I feel like Derek White's got to get some serious love for defensive player of the year because he's making those type of plays all the time. And yet another play in transition that he stopped yesterday that, like, Gobert was wide open. He got his hands on it. Like, he's an incredible transition defender. Like, I think must boost the Celtics 3, 4 spots on his own just in their transition defensive rank. But those two plays are just so incredibly high iq. Guarding the guy with the ball and then finding a way to peel, switch, and be in the spot that the guy has it. I just have to give those plays love because it frustrates me that they've come in two blowouts where it just feels kind of insignificant to give it the praise that it deserves.
- [22:08]
Greg
Yeah, no, I think those are great. And that's something that we called out in the pod. Drew Holliday's first year. This was, I think, very early on. We saw Drew make this as the gap defender in the pick and roll, taking the ball handle or to take away the snake in the. In. In the. The foul line area. And then the ball handler and his guy, Derek White, in this case, peel switching, as you said, out to Drew Holliday or in this case, Jason Tatum's guy. Right? So I think that scheme, which is becoming more and more prevalent in the NBA, it looks instinctual. So you. You reference instincts, but I think this is more game plan discipline and just, like, intelligence and knowing what the game plan is. Because if you. If you play that second clip, you'll see him. Tatum is the guy that makes the read, right? So Tatum is playing the wing defender. He dives at the ball handler as they're. As they're getting downhill off the pick and roll. And once Derrick White sees Tatum has taken that away, he knows, okay, I'm going appeal switch. I'm gonna go take Tatum's guy. So if you just run that one more time so people can kind of focus on Tatum and how Derek. Right. Derek White reads Tatum out there by
- [23:13]
Will
Randall with a shot clock running down, but they turn it into easy buckets. And another still by the Celtics.
- [23:23]
Greg
And I think that's just praise to the Celtics defense here and their team defense in the scheme and Joe Missoula kind of putting in those principles that will help mitigate the impact of some teams that are able to play high pick and roll. Now, Bones Highland just completely destroyed the Celtics the rest of the game in high pick and roll. But this was. This was a really nice example of how the Celtics did defend early on in the game when Gobert was on the court, right? There's a little bit more of an opportunity to play against that high pick and roll in. In that scheme. Whereas when Bone Bones Highlands on the court with surrounded by shooters, there's just less that you can do.
- [24:00]
Will
Did not expect to tune in last night and have a. Have the Bones Highland action that we got last night. That man was talking some wild smack throughout that game. He was. Dude, you know what? Leave Hugo alone, by the way, man. He was going.
- [24:12]
Greg
Yeah, he was going at Ugo. He's like, who's this dude?
- [24:14]
Will
Yeah, Spanish.
- [24:19]
Greg
One of the best defenders in the league.
- [24:21]
Will
I know, but Bones. Shout out the Bones. Bones got it done last night for a guy that, like, I'd kind of forgotten about for a while, to be honest. Like, you know, he's the guy that came in and was one of the only guys that didn't enjoy playing with Nicole Jokic, which seems insane, and then kind of found himself just, you know, a couple different locations and now back at it for the. For the Timberwolves, so.
- [24:41]
Greg
Well, it's one of those things where, like, the ringer, right, they. They control so much of basketball discourse. And when you don't work out with Jokic, who is like, the poster boy for all things ringer NBA, you're gonna get, like, thrown off to the dungeons of society and say, like, forget about that guy. He didn't work with. God's gift to basketball, Nicola Jokic, you don't. You don't belong in the NBA. And truth be told, like, there's a place for bone talent in the NBA.
- [25:09]
Will
Yeah, that dude can score. Like, that dude can. Can put up some points, so it's actually fun. Actually, I like bone Thailand, so it's good to see him.
- [25:16]
Greg
It's a really cool story, too.
- [25:18]
Will
Yeah, it's. It's. What was it? He didn't, like, jump out of a second floor window because he was, like, saving his family from a fire. There's something. I'm mixing up the details, but something along those lines happens.
- [25:28]
Greg
Yeah, I think you got it right. I. I like that. I like that version of the story. I know there's. There's definitely a version of him jumping out of a burning building. I don't know exactly what was going on. Maybe it was a scene from 8 Mile. Maybe they. Maybe they just lit up the. The. You know, the. The trap house on fire.
- [25:42]
Will
Yeah. Shout out to Bones island, man. All right, Greg, let's hit probably the biggest news story since you and I last podcasted is the news about Cade Cunningham. So Kate Cunningham is out for as of this recording now still an undisclosed time with a collapse lung. Really sucks that it happens versus a team like the Wizards. Right? That's like, I think that's one of the biggest things that, you know, I look forward down the stretch here is like, God, I. It's really hard to, you know, invest so much in a season and then you get to end of the season and all of a sudden you're playing one of these tanking teams and that's when the injury happens. Like injuries happen. But when they happen like that, it really, really sucks. But you know, right now for the, for the Pistons, so this leaves them, they're still in first place. They've got a four and a half game lead on the Celtics, a five game lead on the Knicks. The collapse lung, it's seeming like the projections are he's either out through the end of the regular season, potentially back at the playoffs, maybe he can squeeze in a few games. But it's really kind of ranging as to when he'll be back. But I think Greg, with roughly about 10, 11 games to go for everybody, there's some games in motion right now as you and I are talking here. I would say it's pretty hard for the Pistons to lose that one seed. Do you think there's a world in which that's a possibility or four and a half games with about 11 to play. Let's throw the Knicks in there. Five games over, two teams with. With about 11 to play. I would say it's probably out of play, but maybe there's a world in which it's, which it's possible.
- [27:16]
Greg
I mean I think if they win tonight. So they're up 105, 102 on the Lakers with three minutes left in that game Right now that's one of the games that they probably had to lose if the. Yeah. If the Celtics were going to catch them or if the Knicks were going to catch them. So I think as long as they win this game tonight against the lakers, that would be 2, 0. Without Cade, I think they're going to be okay. Because I think you're worried about the initial collapse of the team after the collapse. Long, no pun intended or pun intended. I don't know which one. You know, subconscious.
- [27:44]
Will
It's.
- [27:44]
Greg
It's weird how it works sometimes with language, Will, but I do think that, you know, with the Pistons, they're just a good team man. Like Cade obviously is the head of the snake, but they have an identity. You know, that's what I've been saying all year. Do you have a star and an identity? You take the star away, at least you still have an identity in their. Their identity is on the defensive side of the ball. Right. Holding the Lakers to 102 points. Right now they're holding Luca to 11 for 27 from the field at this point. And they forced a significant amount of turnovers. They forced 12 turnovers in that game. So I do think that the Pistons are going to be okay. They're going to be the one seed. I thought they would have had to like immediately start losing games for that one seed to be in play, but they haven't done that.
- [28:29]
Will
Yeah, and then I think it brings the, the really interesting question of what does that mean for the postseason. So I think here we can probably actually just go right into kind of our, our check in here on what it looks like for the current playoff pictures. Let me get the screen share up here and we will get, get this set up for those that are watching. So if you're watching us on YouTube, you can see this here playoff picture is set up. Celtic still the two seed, got a half game lead over the Knicks. Currently in the east, it's the Pistons. And then they would. Pistons are the 1 seed, Cavs, Raptors at the 4 or 5, Knicks, Hawks at the 3, 6, Celtics at the 2 seed. You're playing looks like as of today, 76ers and Magic are the 7, 8, Heat, Hornets are the 9, 10. And Greg, I saw this from Sean Grandy last night and it's trying to figure out, you know, this is part of the exercise we're doing here. What could potentially be the path for the Celtics to get to the conference finals and then eventually to the NBA finals. Here's the breakdown on the chances of who the Celtics will play in the first round. As of, at least as of last night. This is before some of the games here Monday night go final. Miami 20, Atlanta 18, Toronto 16% Orlando 16 Charlotte 15% Philadelphia 15%. Essentially it's up in the air. We have no idea who the Celtics are going to play. But as it stands today, as we look at this path right here, let's just analyze this path that we have in front of us here. We'll start with the Celtics point of view and then we'll kind of go from there. So the Celtics right now would get the winner of Sixers Magic. And it's, it's funny how this flips. Magic were in the six seed when we did this last week because they were surging. Now they've lost several a couple games in a row here they're free fallen Sixers for them. Just depends really how what healthy how what the health is of the 76ers by the time they get there. But any preference on 76ers magic, where we're at today. Not to brag or anything, But Arby's new 7.99 meat in three box is kind of a big deal.
- [30:29]
Greg
The other guys give you just one side. We give you three sides not to brag. You get a meaty sandwich, curly fries,
- [30:35]
Will
mutt sticks, a sweet treat and a drink all for just 7.99. It's more meal for your money. More meal for your money. More meal for your money.
- [30:47]
Greg
Oh, where'd that come from? Arby's.
- [30:49]
Will
We have the meats and participating Arby's for a limited time.
- [30:54]
Greg
Finding ways to be financially savvy is a smart move. And knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want like that dream home or new ride is
- [31:03]
Will
a great, great feeling. That's why the state Farm personal price
- [31:07]
Greg
plan can help you save when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan.
- [31:14]
Will
Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer availability, amount of discounts and savings and
- [31:21]
Greg
eligibility vary by state. I'd rather play the Sixers just, just because of the injury factor and you just don't know like who's going to be healthy for that team. The Magic know we saw them in the playoffs before and they're just a big physical team dude that are going to make you work really, really hard for your buckets. And I don't know that I want to go through another grueling and it's not going to be a sweep this time. Right. So another grueling series against the Magic. Did they, did they get one last year?
- [31:54]
Will
They got one last year as well.
- [31:55]
Greg
Yeah. Gentleman sweet. Gentleman sweet. I think it would be a six game series against the Magic Sixers. I think there's a much, much better chance of that going four or five just because you know, Joel Embiid might play game one and then he's out for the rest of the series. Paul George, who knows if he's going to show up. You know, you don't know what's up with Maxi's health. Edge Combs a rookie. There's just so many question marks there and then you're relying on Kelly Oubre and Quentin Grimes and like they're fun players, but I don't know if them plus Dominic Barlow is going to be enough to take down the Celtics in the first round. Right. So between those two teams, I definitely prefer the Sixers, the Magic, I think they have a proven model to be tricky in the playoffs. And the Sixers, there are just a lot more question marks that I'd be willing to take those question marks over the known quantity that the Magic bring.
- [32:42]
Will
Do you think anyone out of the play in teams? And let's, let's just hypothetically say Kate is out. Right. Let's go look at the Pistons here for a second. If Kate is out through the first round, do you think there's a team from that 76ers, Magic, Heat, Hornets group? And you can throw the Hawks in here because they're basically the same record as all these teams here. Raptors really not that far apart either. But let's just, let's just leave the Raptors out for now because they've earned the right to stay out of the play in conversation for now. But between the Hawks, 76ers, Magic, Heat, Hornets, if any of them ended up in the eighth seed, who do you think would give the Pistons the most trouble? Like with Cade? I think there's no doubt about it. We're all picking the Pistons, right? Really, I think about it too hard. But without Cade, do you think there's a team there that you look at and you're like, I might, I might get, get crazy and pick an 8:1 upset here?
- [33:29]
Greg
Yeah, I think I would do it for everybody except the Heat. I just don't believe in this version of the Heat. The Hornets prove that they can hang with them. They've proven that they can beat some of the best teams in the league. They've been one of the best teams in the league over the past 40 games or so. The 76ers, they have the model to kind of go up against them with Duran, Duran and Isaiah Stewart in the middle. Joel Embiid could, could be the best big man in that series. You know, Maxi could easily outplay Cade. Paul George could be someone that they put on Cade and give him a lot of problems, right. And then the Magic are just a super big physical team that I think would make for an ugly seven game series, but I think that one would be going long if Cade doesn't play. And Paulo would be the best player in that series. So, you know, with the Pistons, not, I don't think any of those Matchups, would the Pistons have the best player in the series? And there are plenty of series out there, historically, where best play in the series means your team wins. So we'll see you.
- [34:23]
Will
Yeah. I think it's funny. It feels like most of these matchups against the Pistons, if there's no Cade, this just feels like it has to be the NBA TV series. Right. Like, it's just destined for that. Like, it has that written all over it.
- [34:37]
Greg
It's.
- [34:38]
Will
It's so tough, man. Because I. I want to say that I think a lot of these teams, much like you just laid out, could beat them. But then I'm watching them, you know, the. The Lakers are one of the hottest teams in the NBA right now, and they're battling them down to the wire. They're up.
- [34:51]
Greg
Yeah.
- [34:52]
Will
Or, like, maybe, like, you'll take the lead. Yeah. So it's, you know, it's. It's really tough to. To say because it's not like any of those teams in that range have really separated themselves. I think the 76ers are just a health question. Hornets, I think, to me, are the most intriguing. Their level of upside, because they could be kind of like a year too early, but we caught a break, and now all of a sudden, we're in the second round. Like, that doesn't seem unreasonable given the upturn that they've had. I'm with. You know, there's something about the Heat that just doesn't feel right about them being in the second round. Like, I'm just. I thought we were done with Heat culture. I don't want to go backwards in time. I don't want to. I'm go back to Heat culture, feeling like it needs to be relevant again. And, you know, the Hawks are on a massive winning streak, but also, like, I don't know how much I trust the Hawks. Like, I think Jalen Johnson's really good. I just don't know if that feels right. So did you see the.
- [35:41]
Greg
The teams that they've beaten in that winning streak? I think either Zach or Kevin o' Connor did it, or it's just like. It's all tanking teams.
- [35:48]
Will
It's all tanking teams. Yeah, it's really bad. That's why it's, like, it feels pretty fraudulent. That's why I said, let's include them in these playing teams because they're. They're basically the same. The same record. So I. I think majority of these, I actually would still go Pistons, Pistons, Magic. Sound. Pistons, Magic. Without Cade sounds like a awful series to watch. I'm just gonna be honest. Like that does not sound like fun basketball. I think I'd still go Pistons in most of those. I feel like hornets. If the 76ers got healthy, those are the two teams that I would look at to. To potentially pull an upset. But then Greg, when I look at the rest of the east bracket, I think it all may. May be a. Be a moot point. Be a moo point. If you're referencing Joey from friends here, might be a moot point here because Cavaliers, Raptors, Knicks, Hawks. I think we're just funneling ourselves towards Celtics Knicks, Round two. And I think that winner is going to be your Eastern Conference champion. Like that's where when I look at this bracket right now, that's what I'm seeing is 2, 3 gonna come down to Celtics, Knicks. I don't know which order, but that's
- [36:44]
Greg
got to be such a battle in the second round. Like there's a chance that whoever comes out of that so worn down that they don't have anything left because they just spent it all. You know that happened two years, was it two years ago with the T Wolves, right when they beat the Nuggets and they get through the Nuggets and then they get it to the conference finals and they don't have it because they spent all their, they spent all their bullets firing against Jokic in the squad.
- [37:06]
Will
Yeah, that's a fair point. So you know, anything can happen. I just, I just have so little belief in the Cavs. Like the Cavs coming out of the east feel so wrong to me. Like I just, I just. Nothing about that that feels really good. I think they're a fine team, but them coming, them being in the NBA championship or in being NBA Finals, but just feel wrong. So I, I think it's just all aiming towards Celtics, Knicks, Pistons, even with Cade feel like they have some, some noticeable flaws. But that, that to me is I think where it's coming to. But I think you're right. You do have to factor in if that becomes a seven game grind and you know, just guys are banged up left and right and Donovan Mitchell or Cade Cunningham is left standing and it's just like none of the other guys that are healthy, that are on my level are, are healthy. I'm healthy. I'm gonna go win this series. Like that is a distinct possibility. So you have to leave it open. But I think right now I would take Celtics and Knicks over the, over the rest of the field in Eastern Conference.
- [37:58]
Greg
Yeah, I think that's the safe bet. By the way, your boy Dennis Jenkins just put the Pistons up 109, 108.
- [38:05]
Will
Dude, he's having a great game. I saw that. What's the score right now?
- [38:08]
Greg
109, 108 with 35 seconds left. Lakers ball.
- [38:12]
Will
Dude, he's. It's so funny. He's. He's the answer to. What do you do without Cade? We go to Dennis Jenkins. Titans.
- [38:20]
Greg
It looks a little bit like Urkel with dreads.
- [38:23]
Will
I like that. What was it when Urkel used to go into, like, his. Stefan. Yeah, Stefan. Yeah. Dude, you're going to hoop, man. That was a great episode with grandma.
- [38:33]
Greg
He had some shake. Jason Tatum needs to watch some tape of Steve Urkel.
- [38:38]
Will
All right, let's go to for a little bit of fun. We don't really have much else for you today, but let's go into a little Mediocre Life update. Greg and I were together yesterday. I know, Greg, you had something. We kind of spoiled it a little bit yesterday in person. So I don't know if you want to use that same one or if you've got another update that you'd like to share or. I'm happy to jump in here and go first.
- [38:59]
Greg
You. Why don't you go first and I'll make a decision on what I want to share because I got plenty of Charlie Menakes stories and Philip pods that I could share.
- [39:07]
Will
That will be good. That'll be good. Yeah. Yeah. Parse your way through that. Use the filter system, see what comes out on the other end. But I actually wanted to give an update to an old Mediocre Life update date that we did, which was callback, which was you going to get a massage.
- [39:22]
Greg
Okay.
- [39:23]
Will
And unintended, you would get a massage.
- [39:26]
Greg
Those of you that. That rock.
- [39:28]
Will
Yeah. Give a. Give a quick recap of. Of your Mediocre Life update on your massage, and then I'll jump in with mine.
- [39:33]
Greg
Okay. So I went to get a massage probably, you know, six, seven months ago at this point, maybe even longer than that. And as I was getting massage, I wasn't sure if I should. Should be fully nude or if I should have boxers on. I decided to go fully nude. I go into the room. It is a flamboyant Lee gay man who was definitely flirting with me. I'm not. I'm not. I'm just going to tell her what it is. He was definitely flirting with me. And then there was some unintended slippage where I was not sure if the sheet had come off completely. My Eyes were closed. It was very uncomfortable situation, but made it through unscathed and lived to tell another day.
- [40:12]
Will
Okay, so that's part one. Part two. When Greg and I went to go to the spurs game, we were talking about I had a massage scheduled. So we were. The story kind of came back up. Come to find out, I was going to the same exact massage parlor that Greg went to. Well, massage parlor makes it sound sketchy. It's. It's a. It's more of a spa, like. Right. I want to be clear and set the scene here. Now, I ended up at that same place because I was using. If anyone here has ever used class pass before, so you can check out different things without committing to, like, a gym membership. And I was canceling it, so I was like, I gotta find something to use it. Usually those, like, health and wellness options are the most expensive. And I had a ton of points left, so I was like, all right, cool, I'll get a massage. But. And I could have sworn that it lets you choose which, you know, what your preference is when you. When you go for the massage. Apparently, that's. That's one of the. The hiccups of using a service that's not directly through. Through the place. So I was unaware that I was not able to choose. So I go in. Very nice place. A little bougie, but it's very nice. You get a little water, a little tea, get a very nice robe, some nice flip flops. I was like, okay, cool. This is. This is gonna be great. I'm in their little, like, waiting room. They got a little fire pit going. You can pick up a book. They get a couple magazines. I'm sitting there with my tea. I'm ready to be all relaxed. I think this was. I think this was maybe the night after we had gone to San Antonio. So it's like, you know, know, roughly four hours of driving, plus, like, sitting in uncomfortable seats for a couple. I was like, this is a good time to. To get a massage. All of a sudden, Greg. And I don't know how this is gonna make me sound, but all of a sudden I. I look up and I see this cane hit the side of the door. And they ask, are you Will? And in my head, I start to panic a little bit, and I go, yeah. And he's like. And he then says, okay, time for your massage. My. My massage therapist. Which is. You should use massage therapist, not masseuse, as we haven't talked about on this podcast, but just for. For those listening. Massage therapist.
- [42:18]
Greg
I Found that out the hard way.
- [42:20]
Will
Yep. My massage therapist was roughly a 60ish year old blind Indian man. What? So, so he, he hits the door with his cane and I didn't know what was happening. I'm not gonna lie. I was, I, I didn't know what to think. And so he's like, okay, just follow me back to, to the room. I'm like, okay. And in my head I'm like, maybe he, this is just like, he just like kind of brings people to the room. And so I start just asking like questions like, hey man. So like I, I can't remember what this is like two weeks ago now because I've been waiting to tell the story and I, I started asking questions and basically I figure out, okay, this guy is going to be the one giving me the massage. And I can't lie. I asked, I was like, oh, I'm pretty sure I put female down as a preference. I, I actually thought I had like, I thought there was a choice.
- [43:27]
Greg
Yeah, you told me. No, you told me you didn't.
- [43:29]
Will
Did. Yeah, yeah, I could have sworn there was. But also at this time, like my phone's back in the locker room. Like I don't really have much, much time to check it. It's either basically when it's gonna happen or not happen. But he did go, okay, let's go check. So we turn around,
- [43:42]
Greg
see, look right,
- [43:44]
Will
right, like what, what? Like I don't really have much to do here. And so he goes out into like the main area to talk to the receptionist. And, and I'm in my robe. So I was like, I don't know if I'm supposed to go out there. This is like, that's like not, I shouldn't be like naked.
- [43:56]
Greg
Too much sunlight for a rope.
- [43:58]
Will
Yeah, like, like so like I'm waiting behind the door and I hear him talking to her. And I can hear that she's like, oh no, it's on class pass. So it's just like whoever's available, whatever. So he comes back and he's like, yeah, no, unfortunately there's no one else available. And you just like, it's, it's just I'm the one that, that's available right now. And so I have to make a decision. Either I'm just gonna waste the money and be like, okay, this isn't what I signed up for because I can't go back. This is the last day of the, of classes. I have no, I have no way to, to get either this money. He's gone. Or we getting a massage. So I decided, all right, let's do it.
- [44:30]
Greg
I love it. So we go back, try anything once, you know.
- [44:33]
Will
Yeah. So, you know, we're doing the massage and, you know, it's funny a couple different times, he's like, all right, now just relax. And in my head, I'm just like, I'm trying, man. I am really trying. And so it's like, you know, it got to a place where like. Okay, I, I think the, the, the tension of it, like settled down. And I don't know if this makes me sound like it's not like, it's not a homophobic thing. It's not. It was just weird. I just wasn't expecting, I wasn't ready. I wasn't, I was not mentally prepared for this. And I think I finally got to a place where I was pretty calm. And then he got to the part where he was like massaging like my arm and then kind of got to my hands. And you know how like when you shake like an older gentleman's hand, it just feels a little different. Feels a little more callousy, A little bit more weathered? Yeah, a little, yeah, a little bit more weathered. Right. Like you can feel like, you know, the lines on the palm of your hand. It's almost like, like the rings of a tree. Like you can tell how old somebody is if you just shake their hand. You're just like, this guy's, this guy's, this guy's been around, you know what I mean? Like, just.
- [45:33]
Greg
That's held some cane in his day.
- [45:35]
Will
Yeah. Like, so it got to that part and I, I kind of re. Unrelaxed at that point and I was like, I could tell this is definitely like, it's just a 60 year old man massaging me. We got through it. It was an okay massage. I, I think mentally I was just not, not prepared for it. And so it wasn't the most relaxing massage I ever had. Guy was fine. Dude was Great.
- [45:55]
Greg
Scale of 1 to 10, scale of 1 to 10, how relaxed did you get? What's like the peak relaxation you got during that massage?
- [46:03]
Will
Maybe like a six. Like it's. Yeah, like I said, I got to a point where like, it was, was. It was okay. But definitely when he kept being like, hey, just relax.
- [46:12]
Greg
I'm like, dude, did you find out his origin story? Did you find out how he became.
- [46:16]
Will
It's. Nah, I'm not, I'm not inquisitive like that. Like, like you are. For me, I just wanted to get through it, like it's in general for me. Massages are kind of like, you know, getting my beard worked on or going to the dentist. Like, I just prefer no conversation in those situations. Like, or as little conversation as possible. I even asked at that point, like,
- [46:35]
Greg
how could you not be curious, though? Like, I'm really surprised that you didn't. Just like, out of pure curiosity sake.
- [46:42]
Will
Would you want to hear?
- [46:43]
Greg
How do you not ask, one, like, how long you've been, you know, a massage therapist? And two, like, how do you know exactly what you're touching?
- [46:53]
Will
I mean, that. The second question is all I could think about, right? Like, that's all I could think about. I didn't know how to ask it appropriately. The, the first question, I probably should have. I just was in, in a mind state of like, let's just get through this. Like, it's fine, it's fine. This is, is, it's relaxing. This is fun. You know, Are we, are we having fun yet? Like, that's just like kind of the mentality I had. Sir.
- [47:12]
Greg
I've been having a lot of. Playing a lot of tennis lately. I think I got some tennis elbow. If you could just work, work on my elbow, sir. That's my groin. He doesn't know where he's touching.
- [47:23]
Will
I mean, he, he, he didn't mistouch, so he, he did it right. He did. I mean, shout out to my guy. I don't remember, but twist. He is actually so. That same, that same massage place my wife Lorena had been to, and she had him as a masseuse, and I forgot about her as a massage therapist. She had him around the time that you got your, your massage too, a couple months back. And I had forgot that she told me about this. So when I. So I, when I came home thinking I had this big revelation, she was like, oh, yeah, John. Yeah, I know John. Or whatever the guy's name was. She was like, yeah, it's the guy I had. I was like, oh, yeah, you did tell me you had a blind Indian massage. I forgot. And because I remember her thing was kind of similar to yours is like, when we were talking about it as a woman. She actually usually prefers having a woman as her massage therapist too. But it was, it was a class pass thing with her as well. And so she didn't get to choose and it was just who was available. Apparently this is the class pass resident at this particular spa, so if you ever go in there, that's who you're likely gonna going to end up with. So that's My mediocre life update, which is an update to your life update.
- [48:29]
Greg
That is amazing, dude. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, I'll just call the the quick context of why you should call your massage therapist a massage therapist Anonymous. At my job, we have a in house massage therapist who does chair massages for us. I'll leave her name out of it. I'll leave my company out of it. You could probably look it up if you really wanted to, but we have an in house massage therapist there on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And as one of the directors in the office, my job is to introduce the new hires to everybody in the office, including our resident massage therapist. And at the time, I did not know that you should not call a massage therapist a masseuse. So I walk over and I say, hey, I want you to meet our in house masseuse. Said the name and immediately I get a look book. And I'm like, I messed up. This is wrong. I don't know how I messed up, but I messed up. And I get the massage therapist and I go, oh, I'm. I'm sorry, I didn't realize. I didn't realize that I wasn't supposed to say masseuse. Is there something wrong with saying masseuse? And she goes, yes, saying masseuse is basically calling me a prostitute. And I was like, whoa, I don't, I don't know about that. I didn't know we were going like that far. And it's like right in front of a new hire. So I'm just mortified. I'm sweating the new hire sitting there and. And she's like, yeah, I actually have a friend who's a massage therapist. And I've also heard this and apparently it has to do. It has to do with, you know, happy ending massages and sex work and all that. And how Robert Craft missus shout out to rob Robert Kraft. Masseuse is a European term. I'm assuming French. Right? Where you know, you know, you know the French, how they do anything goes
- [50:19]
Will
French, Swedish, something like that.
- [50:20]
Greg
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Frenchers, yes, maybe Swedish. And I find out that, you know through a little Google search that yes, in fact, massage therapists and licensed massage therapists have really been trying to claim the term licensed massage therapist because their name has been dragged through the mud by the masseuses of the world. So don't make that mistake. Learn from my mistake. Not every lice life lesson needs to be learned through your own mistakes. Learned from Uncle Greg over here.
- [50:51]
Will
And down I will say Masseuse is a much more fun word to say than massage. That it's fancy. It's a great word. It's, it's sounds like an experience. All my life it felt like a, to your point, it felt like a fancy thing. Oh, you're going to a masseuse. O, like, like, like that's kind of the connotation that goes off in my head, but apparently it just means you're getting jerked.
- [51:18]
Greg
Oh, okay. I think that's going to do it for this episode. Agree with heavy and mediocre life updates like we said.
- [51:25]
Will
Hey, this is, this is where the magic happens, right when we don't know another plan just seeing if you don't
- [51:30]
Greg
find the magic here, call masseuse.
- [51:32]
Will
But hey, speaking of the magic, they lost tonight. So Pacers just quick, quick recap here.
- [51:37]
Greg
Also beat the Lakers.
- [51:39]
Will
Yeah, we'll end this here on a couple basketball notes here. Pistons beat the Lakers 113 to 110. The Danish Jenkins show 30 points, four rebounds and eight assists. The Magic lose another one. Man, you gotta win against the tanking Pacers. This is why you can't buy into the magic. Man. Paulo had some nice numbers.
- [51:55]
Greg
Three rebounds.
- [51:56]
Will
Come on Paul, we got to get more rebounds than that. Thunder beat the Sixers by 20. And the spurs are just on another level right now. Man. I saw they, I think they've lost one game since the All Star break. Spurs are just absolutely cruising now. They Destroy the Heat 136 to 111. Wemby doing his thing. Yeah, just. Do you think this real quick, do you think the spurs can win the championship this year?
- [52:20]
Greg
Minus not.
- [52:21]
Will
Yeah, I, I, I can't. Other than the fact they just haven't been in the playoffs like as a team, like there's literally not a single other reason why. But the fact that they have an all time transcendent player, like it's, it's crazy to watch, man. It really is. I can't believe they went from Duncan to Wemby. Like that's, that's just not fair. That's a fan base that they get to do that. But special for us. So that's fair. That's fair. You could say the same thing about us. Although didn't work out great in super bowl, but I like where we're at. So that's going to do it for this episode here of Green with envy as always. Appreciate you guys for following us. I will say looking ahead to this week, big matchup on Wednesday against the Thunder. So we will be live after that game. So we'll have something for you guys following Celtics Thunder on Wednesday. So make sure that you guys are locked into us across social media, YouTube, Twitter, Tik Tok, all that good stuff. You got any feedback, feel free to always send it celticsnoisegmail.com we are watching, we are listening and as always appreciate you guys guys for rocking with us. We will catch you guys later this week. It don't take much no more until I hit the floor Every time I hit this high it's you I find it don't take much no more until I'm at your door not to brag or anything, But Arby's new $7.99 meat in three box is kind of a big deal.
- [53:55]
Greg
The other guys give you just one side. We give you three sides. Not to brag. You get a meaty sandwich, curly fries,
- [54:01]
Will
Mott sticks, a sweet treat and a drink. All for just $7.99. It's more meal for your money. More meal for your money. More meal for your money.
- [54:14]
Greg
Where'd that come from? Arby's.
- [54:16]
Will
We have the meats and participating Arby's for a limited time.