Shea Serrano joins the show to talk about his new book "Expensive Basketball"

Summary

Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast

Episode: Special Guest Shea Serrano — Expensive Basketball
Date: November 7, 2025
Hosts: Will & Greg
Guest: Shea Serrano (author, CEO of Halfway Books)

---

Episode Overview

In this lively and wide-ranging conversation, Will and Greg welcome acclaimed writer Shea Serrano to discuss his new book, Expensive Basketball. The episode mixes playful banter, Celtics nostalgia, and insights into the nature of "expensive" basketball moments—those plays and players that simply feel elevated, poetic, and uniquely memorable. Along the way, the trio dives into NBA storylines, Shea’s writing process, and even crafts a tongue-in-cheek pitch for a follow-up book on the opposite: “inexpensive” basketball.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Shea Serrano ([01:04–05:53])

• Will opens with high praise for Shea, calling him a “five-time New York Times bestselling author, CEO of Halfway Books, avid Spurs fan, and... the 16th most famous Mexican American in 2025 according to ChatGPT” ([01:48-02:35]).
• Fun banter about the relative fame of Mexican Americans:
  • “[On ranking] That’s ridiculous. I should not admit.” – Shea ([04:20])
  • “I’m just trying to give you new goals here, Shea. New goal: You coming for Selena’s neck.” — Will ([04:32])
• Light-hearted anecdote about Shea’s recognizability:
  • Will’s fiancée, not a basketball fan, recognizes Shea Serrano among only ten basketball figures she knows ([05:21-05:46]).

2. Early NBA Season Thoughts ([05:53–15:14])

The Spurs & Luke Kornet

• Shea expresses Spurs fandom, high on Victor Wembanyama (“Wemby”), and saddened by an early Harper injury ([06:09]).
• On new Spur (and ex-Celtic) Luke Kornet:

  “He’s just a guy who does the right thing… I know he’s gonna go out there and he’s not gonna f*** up... I really appreciate that about Luke Kornet.” — Shea ([06:42])

Celtics & Derrick White Trade Rumors

• Discussion about Derrick White’s early-season struggles and trade speculation:
  • “[Bill Simmons] thinks it’s time for the Celtics to trade Derrick White... Any world Derrick White makes his way back to San Antonio?” — Mike Gorman/Will ([08:16])
  • Shea unsure but open: “I don’t know... Maybe this will be like the test case...” ([08:36])

Other NBA Storylines

• Milwaukee Bucks’ hopeful championship push:
  • “I think this season started and Giannis looked around and said, hey, we can go to the Finals... Who’s in front of us? The Cavaliers. I’m not afraid of the Cavaliers...” — Shea ([09:24])
• Thunder championship trajectory compared to the 2015-16 Warriors:

  “When they win it again this year, then next year everybody’s gonna be like, f***, f***, what do we do?...” — Shea ([10:40-11:37])

• Memphis Grizzlies’ instability (specifically Ja Morant’s future):

  “He has, like, a Russell Westbrook reputation about him... as electric as this guy is, I don’t know if he’s gonna help my team win a thing.” — Shea ([11:47])

  • Playfully hopes he goes to Houston “strictly because I want him to go there and ruin the Rockets... just out of pettiness.” ([12:45])

Random League Pass Allure

• Shea on the Kings:

  “They’re not even terrible. They’re like ... e. They’re just existing. I don’t know. They’re very weird.” ([13:47])

Bucks’ Unexpected Surprises

• Will’s surprise at the Bucks’ new talent:

  “Didn’t know about Ryan Rollins at all. Really big fan. Giannis seems to already trust him…” ([14:18])

3. Wembanyama’s Ceiling & Transcendent Talents ([15:14–21:53])

• “Is there a ceiling on Wemby?”:

  “At this particular moment, there is no ceiling... There’s no thing you could say about him on a basketball court that would make you go, ‘He didn’t really do it.’” — Shea ([16:23])

• Historical comps for “no-ceiling” players:
  • “LeBron for sure… Magic and Larry… Jordan surprisingly didn’t have it until he was scoring 60 points in the Garden...” — Shea ([20:29])

4. The Concept of Expensive Basketball ([21:53–25:13])

• Defining “Expensive Basketball”:

  “Expensive basketball is an idea that nobody has to explain... Sometimes a thing happens on a court that just feels important… elegant... poetic... Every chapter is a different one of those things.” — Shea ([23:03])

  • Example: Ray Allen’s jumper versus Joakim Noah’s — no contest which “feels expensive.”

5. Revelations & Research from the Book ([25:13–29:05])

• Shea recounts stats that shocked him:
  • James Harden:

    “One time in 149 playoff games he made a shot to put his team into the lead in the final minute...” ([25:24])

  • Damian Lillard passed Harden for go-ahead playoff shots in his first playoff series.
  • Steph Curry:

    “The greatest shooter of all time only has one game-winning buzzer beater... and it was against the Boston Celtics.” ([28:25])

6. Writing, Details, and the Humanity of Hoops ([29:05–35:18])

• Shea’s writing comes alive because he writes only about things he loves:

  “I only like to write about stuff that I really care about and... have a long history of loving.” ([30:09])

• Favorite unexpected detail: Including little, visceral moments (Lillard’s “clap” for the ball, etc.).
• Greg notes the human moments:
  • “Your writing taps into the visceral part of being a human,” citing the Tim Duncan anecdote and observations like “Allen Iverson is handsome.” ([34:03])

7. Celtics Nostalgia ([35:18–42:29])

Antoine Walker & The Walker Wiggle

• How did the “Walker Wiggle” make Shea’s radar?

  “I’ve always been pulled toward players who possess a cool gravity... Antoine Walker always presented as that — just obscenely confident...” ([36:52])

• The league pass era and fascination with certain players across distance.
• Greg and Will share personal Celtics memories:
  • The 2002 26-point comeback vs. the Nets ([40:50]), “You don’t remember the series, you remember that game.” — Shea ([41:21])

Kobe, the 2008 Finals, and Celtics Trauma

• Shea shares the story of Kobe listening to “Don’t Stop Believin’” daily for two years after the Celtics used it to celebrate their 2008 title win:

  “He listened [to it] until he beat the Celtics... an absolute maniac.” — Will ([41:35])

• The Kobe “lore” and obsessive competitor stories ([43:00]).

8. Pitch for “Inexpensive Basketball” ([44:29–47:32])

• Greg proposes a counter-book; Shea riffs on what would qualify:

  “If I saw George Murasan dribbling the ball up I would go like, well, something has gone wrong. This is inexpensive... A very tall guy dribbling always looks inexpensive — with the exception of Wemby.” ([45:10])

• Chris Paul’s foul-baiting, Ben Wallace free throws, Carlos Boozer’s “fake hair” ([46:14–47:29]).
• Shea: “I like to celebrate stuff. I don’t want to denigrate. You guys write that one!” ([47:32])

9. Green With Envy 60-Second Firing Line ([48:01–49:43])

Rapid-fire Q&A:

• Q: Wemby will be a better all-time player than Tim Duncan. Fact or fiction?

  “Fiction.” — Shea ([48:45])

• Q: Best signature NBA celebration?

  “LeBron’s whatever this thing was, doesn’t have a name.” — Shea ([49:12])

• Q: Best Boston movie?

  “The Town.” ([49:19])

• Q: Will we get a season 2 of Primo?

  “No, they all, the characters died in a car crash. That’s how season one ended.” — Shea ([49:43])

10. Final Thoughts & Farewells ([51:04–52:41])

• Shea on where to buy Expensive Basketball:

  “It is available in every single bookstore... if you buy it, I get some money, and that’s always good for me.”

• Greg reminisces about random-player shoutouts from Shea’s previous podcasts (Michael Redd, Scoonie Penn).
• Shea: “What a name. What a name that was.” ([52:37])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Luke Kornet:
  “He’s just a guy who does the right thing... you don’t have to worry about him. I really appreciate that.” — Shea ([06:42])
• On Wemby’s ceiling:
  “There is no ceiling... you could say he had 21 blocks last night and you wouldn’t immediately doubt it.” — Shea ([16:23])
• On “Expensive Basketball”:
  “Sometimes a thing happens on a court that just feels important. It feels expensive. It feels elegant... poetic.” — Shea ([23:03])
• On James Harden:
  “One time in 149 playoff games he made a go-ahead shot in the final minute. That's crazy.” — Shea ([25:24])
• On Kobe’s obsession:
  “He listened [to Don’t Stop Believin’] every day for two years until he beat the Celtics. He’s an absolute maniac.” — Will ([42:28])
• On inexpensive basketball:
  “Chris Paul’s foul-baiting... that’s a smart play, but it kinda sucks, and that’s why it’s inexpensive.” — Shea ([46:22])

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Shea ranks as “16th most famous Mexican American” — [03:14–04:32]
• Luke Kornet appreciation & Spurs early thoughts — [06:09–08:16]
• Wemby’s ceiling, NBA comp discussion — [15:14–21:53]
• Expensive basketball hypothesis explained — [23:03–25:13]
• Stunning stats: Harden, Lillard, Curry — [25:13–29:05]
• Celtics/Nets 2002 comeback memories — [39:40–41:35]
• Kobe’s “Don’t Stop Believin’” obsession — [41:35–42:29]
• Riff on “inexpensive basketball” — [44:29–47:32]
• 60-second rapid fire with Shea — [48:01–49:43]
• Scoonie Penn: Legendary name — [52:37–52:41]

---

Tone & Language

The hosts and Shea Serrano maintain a fast, conversational, irreverent, and warmly nostalgic tone—full of deep basketball respect, self-deprecating jokes, and sincere affection both for the game and for each other's insights.

---

Conclusion

This episode is a rich, entertaining journey through basketball nostalgia and philosophy, punctuated by Shea Serrano’s sharp wit and the hosts’ sincere Celtics fandom. The discussion around Expensive Basketball powerfully conveys why certain basketball moments transcend stats and highlights, and become part of the game’s poetry. The chemistry between hosts and guest makes the stories and debate both accessible and insightful, inviting listeners—Hardcore Celtics fans or not—to rethink what makes basketball beautiful.

Transcript

[Multicare Announcer]

Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because Multicare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn [e-mail].

[Airwick Announcer]

When you give gifts, you like to knock them out of the park. Airwick Essential Mist Diffuser's chic design, long lasting scents and effortless setup makes it the kind of gift that feels complete the moment it's unwrapped. Perfect for your favorite dinner party host or that friend who loves a cozy night in. Plus, its cordless design means you can easily take this gentle fragrance with you from room to room. Airwick Essential Mist ready to gift, ready to uplift.

[Mike Gorman]

This is Mike Gorman and you're listening.

[Chase Serrano]

To Green with Envy with Will and Greg.

[Will]

All right, everybody, special edition today here on Green with Envy. It's a throwback coffee and Celtics. And we are honored. We have the goat Chase Serrano, author of the new book Expensive Basketball, is in the building. So, you know, we don't got time to mess around. This is Green with Envy.

[Chase Serrano]

Let's lock in.

[Will]

What up? What up? Welcome into another edition of Green with Envy. As always, this is Boy Will. We're checking in.

[Chase Serrano]

How you doing? How you living?

[Will]

Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Manakis. And Greg, I do apologize, I got to skip over the pleasantries today. We got too big of a guest to waste any time, so we got to get right to it. Making his first appearance on the podcast today, one of our white whales, or I guess Mexican whales that we've been chasing to have down here on the podcast. He is a four time. No, no, hold up, hold up. A five. Five time New York Times bestselling authority. His newest book is Expensive Basketball. He is the CEO of Halfway Books, avid Spurs fan, and According to chat, GPT, the 16th most famous Mexican American in 2025. It's the one, the only chase around. Joins the podcast. Shay, appreciate you being here, man.

[Chase Serrano]

Thank you. That's such an intense opening video that you guys have. It's like the, when they would introduce the. The Jordan Pool starting lineup, like that's what I was waiting for.

[Will]

Hey, listen, man, we got to bring the energy every time we have a guest in here. We want them to, whether or not they understand who we are, what we do what we're about, we try to bring the energy, so the video helps us to get the message across.

[Mike Gorman]

What's up, man? How you doing?

[Chase Serrano]

Did you chat GPT? My name. Is that what you did?

[Will]

100. So basically, I, I'm not gonna lie. I. First of all, I know very much who you are. We've talked about you many times on this podcast. But I was curious. I was like, how famous is Shea?

[Chase Serrano]

Actually?

[Will]

So I, I just went into chat GPT. It's like, like, let's see, where does he rank among, you know, Mexican celebrities? Did a little tinkering here and there, and ultimately you came out 16th as the, the most famous Mexican American in 2025. Do you want to take any guesses who ranks ahead of you?

[Chase Serrano]

That's very. According to Chad, that I'm that high up there. Okay, so who's higher than me? Salma Hayek is higher than me.

[Will]

She's on the list.

[Chase Serrano]

Ortega is higher than me.

[Will]

Doesn't always come through. Jenna Ortega is not on this list.

[Chase Serrano]

She might not be all the way Mexican. Who knows? Danny Trejo is higher than me.

[Will]

He's on the list. I was expecting that. He's number 11 on the list.

[Chase Serrano]

Who's number one? Wait, like Frida Kahlo or something? Like we get.

[Will]

First of all, my daughter actually went as Frida Kahlo for, for Halloween.

[Chase Serrano]

Good for her.

[Will]

No, so, so I changed it to living Mexican American. So. And I forgot about her and she's a billionaire, but Selena Gomez is number one. That's a pretty, that's a pretty, pretty good answer for number one.

[Chase Serrano]

Yeah, she's gonna, she's for sure gonna be up there. Number one. Good for Selena. All right, so 16th most famous living in Mexico. That's a, that's ridiculous. I should not admit.

[Will]

I'm just trying to give you new goals here, Shea. You keep, you keep setting the bar here. Five time New York Times best selling out there. New goal. You just coming for Selena's neck. That's great.

[Mike Gorman]

Well, Shade, you want to know how famous you actually are? Is my fiance knows nothing about basketball. I asked her the other night, actually to name every basketball player that she knows. And the ninth person that she named was Lavar Ball.

[Chase Serrano]

Hell yeah.

[Mike Gorman]

So I did tell her earlier this week when we locked in the interview, I was like, oh, we're interviewing Shea Serrano. And she looked at me with this look on her face because I work for a company that is currently interviewing candidates to work for our company. And she was like, shea Serrano's interviewing to work at Imagine Learning.

[Will]

I was like, no, no, no.

[Mike Gorman]

For the pod. For the pod. I was like. He's like, oh, okay. But you said, I'm interviewing the guy whose book I just bought. As if I haven't been dating you for the past seven years. I thought Chase Serrano wanted to work for Imagine Learning, but I also know who Shea Serrano is. So if she only knows, like, 10 basketball players but knows who Shea Serrano is, that means you're pretty famous, man.

[Chase Serrano]

I think that's only because you were talking about me at your house, which I appreciate. Thank you for talking about me at your house. Thank you.

[Will]

Well, Shay, we're going to talk about the book here in just a minute. Expensive Basketball. But while you're here, you know, we miss hearing your voice on various podcasts. So we want to get your thoughts here. Three weeks into the NBA season, I want to know what's. What's grabbing your attention early on in the season here.

[Chase Serrano]

What is grabbing my attention early on in the season? Let's see. Obviously, Wimy is grabbing my attention early on in the season. I'm very excited about the way that this is developing for my beloved Spurs. I was sad that Harper went down. I'm. But I'm excited for Wimy. I'm excited for when Harper and Fox are both back. We got so back. Broadly speaking, I'm excited about the Spurs.

[Will]

Can I ask you a quick question about the Spurs?

[Chase Serrano]

Please do it.

[Will]

Our beloved Luke Cornett, part of the French vanilla connection, is now a San Antonio Spur. I would love to get your thoughts on Luke Cornett early.

[Chase Serrano]

I actually maybe like, two or three games into the season, I tweeted some version of this. But I love Luke Cornett. When he showed up, everybody was like, you're gonna love this guy. He's so wacky and, like, colorful and what a personality. And I was like, I don't care about that. Like, is he a basketball player? That's what I care about. That's what I was nervous about. And then he showed up, and he just. He's just like a guy who does the right thing. Like, he's not. He's. He's not gonna go out there, of course, and score 25 points, but I know he's gonna go out there and he's not gonna up. And to go from Zach Collins, who was like, the king of doing that, to Luke Cornett. Oh, my God, I love. I love Luke Cornett. So I'm just watching him out there, just setting a screen and rolling and like causing a little bit of trouble that the other team has to pay attention to or getting an offensive rebound or tipping something to somebody. He just does good stuff on a basketball court and I love a player like that. A guy who's just going to clock in and do his job and you don't have to worry about him. I really appreciate that about Luke Cornett. So I don't care anything about like how funny he might be in an interview or whatever. I care that we can put him in a game and I don't have to think about, about it which when we put Zach Collins in a game I would just be watching it like this like ah though you know what I mean? So I, I, I'm very high on Luke Cornett. Thank you for that. We're not quite even for Derrick White, but we're getting closer.

[Mike Gorman]

We're actually going to talk about Derek White because he's been struggling a little bit to start this season for the Celtics. And Bill Simmons, your, your old boss was talking about on his last pod with, with House that he thinks it's time for the Celtics to trade Derrick White. Is there any world in which Derrick White makes his way back to San Antonio?

[Chase Serrano]

I don't, I don't know how that works with the team. I don't know. I don't know enough about Mitch Johnson to know if that's like a thing he would be into doing. So maybe this will be like the test case where we'll find out there's a kind of good player out there that maybe we, we can get our hands on. Do we want to do it? We'll see how that goes. I don't know right now though because.

[Mike Gorman]

I don't think you guys are like all that far off from making some noise this year. You're probably a next year team in terms of like being a real contender. But I think with Fox coming back, you know, he hasn't even played this season with that hamstring injury. Then as you mentioned, Harper looked great in his early season. We're actually based down here in Austin, Shay, so we get it, we get the spurs games and we watch a lot of those as well. And then Castle, man, I love Steph Castle.

[Chase Serrano]

Love him. He's super aggressive.

[Mike Gorman]

His vibe on Castle.

[Chase Serrano]

Yeah, I'm very, I'm very high on, on Castle, especially high on, on Harper. But yeah, I'm, I'm so, I'm excited about the spurs. Obviously. I'm, I'm very interested in what happens in Milwaukee because I think this season started and Giannis looked around and said, hey, we can go to the Finals. We, like, if we get our. Together, we can go to the Finals. Who's in front of us? The Cavaliers. I'm not afraid of the Cavaliers. Like the Knicks. I'm not afraid of the Knicks. I think he. I think that was like a conversation he had with his teammates of like, when Tatum goes down, when Halliburton goes down, and then the season starts and you realize who else is there? We can be that team. And I don't think I. We're not at the stage yet where people are afraid of the Thunder. They're the champions. I get it. But. But they're the champions in that way that feels like we still kind of want to test them and see what happens. You're probably going to lose. They're going to beat you. But what. What are they. How are they going to react when we try to, like, muddy the game up, rough them up a little bit, talk shit to them? Just because that team is like a nice team. SGA is like a nice guy.

[Will]

They're a family, family friendly team.

[Chase Serrano]

Yeah. This, and this is the exact same thing that happened with the 2015 Warriors. They won the 2015 warriors, won the title. And then people were like, well, let's look at the injuries that were on the way. And your best guy is Steph Curry. And I'm like, I'm not that intimidated Steph Curry. And then they showed up in 2016, and we're like, we're fucking killing everybody then. How about that? How about we win 73 games? Are you afraid of us now? And then they win a couple more championships and then they became full on terrifying. I think the Thunder are on that exact same trajectory. They win the title last year. I think they're going to win it again this year. And when they win it again this year, then next year everybody's going to be like, fuck, fuck. What do we do? How do we stop this? You know what I mean? So I'm very excited about what. What. What's happening in Milwaukee. I think the Memphis situation is very interesting to watch from afar. I feel bad for Memphis fans. I think that's all gonna fall apart. I watched it happen in San Antonio with Kawhi Leonard. I know what I'm watching. I've seen this movie before. He's out of there, but I'm very.

[Will]

Do you have a spot? Do you have a spot that you would like to see? Not even where you think, but just where you Would, like, where you would want. Not even, like, you know, put all the trades aside. Where would you want to see John, though?

[Chase Serrano]

So. So, okay, so that's the thing with the John Moran thing. There's, like, he's a very exciting player and. And people seem to love him, but he has, like, a. He has, like, a Russell Westbrook reputation about him right now, where you're, like, as electric as this guy is, I don't know if he's going to help my team win a thing. And so it becomes where it's almost like. Like, if Giannis just said, like, very plainly, I want to leave, the teams would line up to be like, come to us. When Ja says, I want out of here, people might get in line. But I think there's going to be, like, some hesitancy of, like, we'll take you rather than come here, please. You know what I mean? So. But if I. So if I had to pick a team. If I had to pick a team, I want to send them to Houston strictly because I want him to go there and, like, ruin the Rockets. Because the Rockets look tough. They look tough right now.

[Will]

Just out of pettiness.

[Chase Serrano]

They look so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just out of pettiness. I always want the spurs to be better than the Rockets and the Mavs and the Lakers. Those are the teams I need my spurs to be better than. We're better than the Mavericks. The Mavericks are terrible. The Lakers are still a little bit better than us, but they're not going anywhere. They're not going to do a thing. The Rockets, though, they seem, like, genuine. Like, that's a threat. That's a real. They're going to give OKC trouble in the playoffs, and so let's get Jaw there to, like, sew some discord. But those are, like, the main. The main things I'm interested in. Then, like, some individual players. I'm really. I really like watching Lamelo play. I'm. I'm hoping that he makes, makes the leap. The. The Sacramento Kings are just like, they're not interesting, but for some reason, when I see the King's name on my league pass, I'm like, I'll watch 20 minutes of this just to see what's going.

[Will]

You know what I mean?

[Chase Serrano]

I don't know what.

[Will]

It's like a car wreck that you just were like, you know what? Yeah, I'll slow down just enough to see what happened, and then I. I'll.

[Chase Serrano]

Go on by day and. But that's the thing. Like, they're not even Terrible. They're just. They're like e. They're not really bad and they're not really good. They're just like. They're existing. I don't know. They're just weird. They're very weird.

[Will]

The old Bulls teams with like DeRozan Levine, then you have Sabonis, and then they threw in Russell Westbrook, who's getting.

[Mike Gorman]

Like 25, 16 and 10 on random.

[Chase Serrano]

Yeah. Yeah. So that's what. That's what I'm like, that's what's. That's what has my attention right now.

[Will]

Yeah, I think the Bucks one is pretty interesting. I was pretty adamant going into the season that I obviously Giannis is Giannis, so I was putting Giannis to the side like he was gonna have insane numbers. But I overestimated just how bad the east is or underestimated actually, just how bad the east is. And Giannis just kind of feeling like he's a Bull seeing red because I thought the team around him was just really bad. Like I was. They didn't have anyone to dribble. Now, granted, I didn't. About Ryan Rollins and I've been talking about Ryan Rollins the last like two weeks here. A couple times I've checked out the Bucks did not know about this guy at all. Really big fan. Yana seems to already trust him, which is like the mind blowing part to me. Yeah, no, you dribble the ball up late game and like you're gonna figure it out. He hit a big shot last week, I think, against the Cavs. Maybe can remember who it was to win the game or the Warriors, I think is what it was. And Giannis wasn't even playing and Ryan Rollins took them to a win. So that was kind of. The Bucks have definitely exceeded my expectations to start the season and making me look Ryan Rollins.

[Mike Gorman]

I. I always get confused when guys have similar names because, like I'm. When I hear Ryan Rollins, I think Ryan Hollins and it's a very different player. There's like a few guys out there where. Well, who is. Who are the. The Kenny Atkinson. Who did we always get?

[Will]

Kenny Anderson and Chucky Atkins. Combination creates Kenny.

[Mike Gorman]

When I first heard that name, me and Will being white, longest time we just thought he was a black dude and then we saw him as a white guy. We were like, wait, what?

[Will]

That would be a good one. Frankenstein mashups of different players that. That create that effect. I like that. But no, let's. Let's go to. Let's talk about Wemby for a second because that's your guy. And I know you mentioned him him earlier, and I just want to ask you, you know, because this is going to lead into us talking about your book here, but is there a ceiling on Wemby? Like, what is the ceiling for Wemby? When you watch some of the things that he does on a basketball court, we've never seen them before and sometimes we use that hyperbolic and it's like, now you probably have seen it. No, you literally have not seen the, that Wemby has done on a baske. So as you're watching him, like, do you think there's any ceiling to what he can or cannot do or can.

[Chase Serrano]

Or cannot be at this, at this particular moment? There is no ceiling. I think these next two years will help us figure out what's the top look like. Right. Because you watch the games now. If we look at the sort of trajectory of his career, he shows up that first season and everybody is just like, we kind of don't care what happens on the court. We're just happy that you're here, you're in the NBA. Great. We get to look at you, you're 7ft 5 and you're doing whatever. You're dunking it from outside the restricted area without jumping. That's incredible. Like, that's all that we were, we were interested in as far as spurs fans, because when he showed up, all the dispersal organization was like, we're like on a five year window here, everybody. So like, relax. Five years. Give us five years. Everybody said, cool. So the first year, no basketball expectations, it's whatever. Second year, he makes a progression. He's on his way toward becoming the obvious defensive player of the year before he goes down with the injury. So you're like, okay, good. He's already better than he was last season. He's going to be this like really powerful presence on the defensive court and defensive end of the court, great. But then that season gets cut short and then this season starts and now he's better on offense. He's a little bit better at dribbling. He's. His jumper is a little bit better. He's doing stuff where you're like that first game especially has a 40 point game against the Mavericks. He played 29 minutes in the game and just controlled every single inch of the court while he was out there. It's like, this is. Okay, we have a chance here that this guy is probably one of the five best players already in the league. Could be that right. And then he just kept doing better. And better things for those first five games when they go on their little five game winning streak. By the end of the five game winning streak, I was convinced he's the third best player in the NBA already. I'm like, it's, it's sga, it's Joker, it's Wimby. What Like I'm doing, I'm doing that whole thing right. But we're at this SP right now where we've only seen progression so far. Teams have now started just, we're going to front Wimy and we're going to get behind Wimy and we're going to throw one third guy and let's see if he can solve this puzzle. We're at that part of his career. But I say that to say there's no thing you could say about him on a basketball court that would make you go, he didn't really do like I could tell you right now, oh, they played, they played the game last night and he dunked it from the three point line. And a part of you would go, did he really? Like, you wouldn't immediately doubt it, right? So right now there's no ceiling at all. You're just like, it feels like he could maybe do everything, but over these next two years, we'll finish sort of building this ceiling for him and go, okay, this is what the very top looks like. Same thing that happened with, with LeBron over those first few years of his season where you're like, this guy can do anything. And then you get a fuller view and you go, okay, now we know what the very top is and what we're hope hopeful for here. But at this particular moment, there's no ceiling for Wimby. You could say he had, he had 21 blocks in the game last night. Oh, wow. Like, you wouldn't even question it. Like, I can't believe, I can't believe the Hornets kept trying to shoot layups. What do you think that's all you would do? You know what I mean? Right?

[Multicare Announcer]

Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because MultiCare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@ multicare.org.

[Thumbtack Announcer]

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to, don't know the difference between matte Paint finish and satin or what? That clunking sound from your dryer is with thumbtack. You don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app download today.

[Mike Gorman]

So you mentioned LeBron as like kind of another guy where we didn't know if there was a ceiling. Is there anybody else over the past 20 years that you ever felt that way with?

[Chase Serrano]

Me personally, so many guys.

[Will]

I'm wrong so often I'm caught up in the moment.

[Chase Serrano]

I'm like Harold Miner, better than Jordan. Like, you know what I mean? I get so excited about stuff. Yeah, yeah, there's a ton, there's a ton of guys who I'm always just like, like Tyrese Halliburton. That's. It's better than Magic Johnson. I like caught myself saying like that. So yeah, for a lot, for a lot of guys I have done that thing. Probably somebody smarter or more measured, they would, they would maybe say, you say that about LeBron, you probably say that about David Robinson when he showed up. Just because this is like the pre Internet, all that you saw of David Robinson was like the shots of him in the navy. And so it was like, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude. You know what I mean? It's like, who is this? Yeah, it was like a movie type shit. Only a couple of, a couple of times Magic came into the league with that. Larry. Magic and Larry came in the league together with, with that. Jordan surprisingly didn't have it like that label until, until, until he was like scoring 60 plus points in the garden and everybody's like, hold on a second, wait a second. But yeah, only, only a couple of guys have you ever said that before about them.

[Will]

Well, let's, let's start talking about your book here, Shay. I've got a copy here of expensive Basketball. If you're watching us on YouTube or Twitter, you can see that.

[Chase Serrano]

Look at that.

[Will]

You should go and catch your copy now. And I, I will say, Shay, number one, great job on the COVID because it looks expensive, not actually expensive stuff. If you guys want to go get a copy, you should go get a copy. Maybe even two. Go ahead and cop that now. But my wife was the one who went outside and grabbed it from, from the Amazon packaging. And number one, she got the notification and her, her first response was, did you buy an expensive basketball? I physically bought like an expensive basketball. I was like, oh, no, no, no, that's a, that's, that's, that's that's a book, actually. So she went and got it, she opened it up and she brought it over to me and she was very impressed. She was like, oh, wow, this is really nice. You know what you should do? You should bring this to a coffee shop and read it and people are going to think you're reading something important. That was her first response. So I, I think mission accomplished on the look and feel of the book that you were going for. But let's, let's help tell the people a little bit here. Greg and I both decided to dig into it here a bit, but tell the people the idea or the thought process behind expensive basketball. What is expensive basketball?

[Chase Serrano]

So expensive basketball is an idea that nobody has to explain it to you. You just sort of understand it intuitively, right? And the way that I get that idea across is I propose a hypothetical in the opening of the book and I say assume you were sitting just in a diner by yourself, minding your business and somebody walked in, sat at your table and they said, I'm going to show you two videos right now. Watch these videos. The first is a video of Ray Allen shooting a jump shot, a 10 second video of Ray Allen shooting a jump shot. And the other one is a video of Joakim Noah shooting a jump shot, 10 second video of Yokim Noah shooting jump shot without any explanation, without any sort of consideration for the context of the moment. This person who showed you these two videos then asks you which of these two feels more expensive. You would know without question in your heart of hearts, in your soul of souls, you would go, oh, the Ray Allen one. You don't know why you know that, but you would know that that's the answer. And that's what expensive basketball is. Sometimes a thing happens on a basketball court that just feels important. It feels expensive, it feels elegant, it feels eloquent, it feels artistic and poetic and like that's an expensive basketball thing. And that's what the book is. It's just every chapter is a different one of those things, a different thing that felt Dennis Rodman tipping rebounds to himself. That feels expensive. I don't know why it feels expensive, but it feels Magic Johnson in the open court, that feels expensive. The final three minutes of Kobe Bryant's last game feels expensive. It feels like the most expensive thing I've ever seen. Like that's what the, the idea behind the book is and it's what I'm really proud of, in part because you say that to somebody. If I tell you this hypothetical in your Head, you automatically just start thinking, oh, like blank and blank. You come up with your own examples. And that's always my favorite sort of of ideas, like a thing you can search drop into someone's head and then they start thinking of on their own. But that's what the book is.

[Mike Gorman]

Is there anything that you were surprised to learn in your research or in your writing about either the game of basketball or yourself?

[Chase Serrano]

I didn't learn anything about myself because I know everything about myself, but I learned a lot about, I learned a lot about basketball. Some of which was just like, I mean there are, there are a bunch of stats that you come across when you're working on something like this. I'm going to pull one up right now. I don't remember it off the top of my head, but it had to do with James Harden. That's what I'm going to look up right now because that was one of my favorite ones. Okay, so there's a chapter in the book about, about Damian Lillard. It's when he hits the shot over, over Chandler Parsons for some reason as guarding him, he hits the shot of a Chandler Parsons to, to send the, the blazers to the second round of the playoffs for the first time in 14 or so years. But while I was researching for that chapter, I was just thinking about James Harden and how he's probably is one of the like 10 most gifted one on one basketball players who has ever lived. If you just grabbed everybody and was like, we're playing one on one to 11, he's going to get very far in that tournament. Right? But he's only going to get very far in that tournament. If you tell him that it's not important because when it's important he freezes up. That's the, like, that's the, that's the reputation that James Harden has as a basketball player. And I always thought, I lived in Houston for 14 years. I watched him during his best years. I always thought that's sort of like an unfair designation. There's a bunch of other things you have to consider and like he's not as bad as you think he is. But then I started researching and it turns out he's worse than you think that he is. And the, the stat that I came across at the time that I was writing the book was that he has played and he had played in 149 playoff games. 149 playoff games. And in those 149 playoff games, he, he has one. One go ahead shot in the final minute of the fourth quarter or overtime one. One time in 149 playoff games, he made a shot to put his team into the lead in the final minute of fourth quarter or overtime one time in 149 games. And that's crazy. Again, one of the most talented one on one players ever. And you can't give him the ball when it's time to give your best guy the ball. The comparison I make in the chapter is that Damian Lillard got his first one. Literally in his first playoff game. He's like, he played one playoff game and he's like, I have as many as James Harden.

[Will]

I forgot that was his second year until I read that chapter. That's his second year is crazy.

[Chase Serrano]

Second year. And in his first playoff series, he passes James Harden for go ahead playoff. Go ahead shots. And I couldn't, I couldn't believe that one. I also couldn't believe that Steph Curry, the greatest shooter of all time, only has one game winning buzzer beater. Like an actual at the buzzer. He only has one.

[Mike Gorman]

Is that the double bang?

[Chase Serrano]

No. Why do you guys not know this? It was against the Boston Celtics. Is against the Boston Celtics in 2022. The double bang happens in Oklahoma City. There's still time on the clock.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Chase Serrano]

But an actual buzzer beater. He only has one, which is crazy.

[Will]

That's crazy.

[Chase Serrano]

Crazy. That's crazy. That so like little stuff like that pops up and you're like, that can't be. That can't be true. And then I email Mike lynch who is a researcher anytime I do a basketball book. He works at Basketball Reference. And so I'm like, Mike, I need, can you verify all these stats for me? Can you help me? And I was like this, these can't be true, Mike. These are all. These are wrong. Right. And he's like, no, those are, those are very true, very true stats. Those ones I couldn't believe.

[Will]

Yeah, I, I think it's, you know, some of those things in your writing as well as something that always jumps out to me is when you spe maybe a half a page or a page going into a very little detail that especially if you're like a Hooper and you bring up the Damian Lillard section, made me think of it is where you talk about the claps. He does where he's calling for the ball coming around. That's a really little thing. Exactly. But everyone that's ever played basketball, when you feel like you're feeling it or you're like you want the basketball, you think you're Open. Everybody knows exactly what you're talking about. And I think those are the parts that really come through, like, in your writing for me, that almost, you know, they put me into the moment that I'm reading about because I'm like, oh, yeah, I thought I was Damian the liver before clap, but I've thought I was before. And so, you know, I'm curious, as you're doing this writing, is there anything else that, like, any other. Of those little moments that, like, either you were. To Greg's question, either you were surprised by that you ended up writing about, or that right now are just jumping to your mind? Like, this is a favorite of mine. One of those little type of moments.

[Chase Serrano]

Well, with the little type of moments thing, that's always the. The. The reason I give. When somebody asked me, like, okay, so at this point, I've written five books. I did rap, and then I did movie, and I did rap, and then I did basketball and then movies, and then I was like, well, I'll just restart it. I'm gonna do rap again. And now I did basketball. Like, I only like to write about the stuff that I really care about and the stuff that I like that I, like, have a long history of loving. Right? Because I could. I could write a book about baseball for. I could take a couple of years and, like, come up with some stuff and write a thing, but it's not going to have that. Those things in it because I didn't grow up watching it. I haven't, like, devoted a significant amount of my time to it. It would be okay. It might even be a little bit good. But it's not going to be like. Like, if Michael Bauman, who's a baseball writer, if he wrote a baseball book, it would be so much better because he knows all of those little things. He knows the. Whatever the baseball version of the clap is in basketball that we know. Right? I can't write a book like that about the stuff that I don't sort of love all of the way. So that's the first part of that question. But the second part, the. I mean, the other stuff that sort of stands out or. I was really proud of the Michael Jordan chapter, which is the, like, the nerdiest chapter in the book and also the one that I know more people are going to hate than like. Like it just because of how weird it is. But I. It took me, like, a significant amount of time to figure out a way to write about Michael Jordan in a way that hadn't been written about yet because he's the most talked about basketball player to have ever lived. I've got multiple books on my desk right now, like Michael Jordan books. Like, I've got the Michael Leah.

[Will]

It would have felt wrong having an expensive basketball book with no Michael Jordan. So you got to find a way to put him in there.

[Chase Serrano]

You got to find a way to put Michael Jordan in there. But also you can't do like the Sam Smith Jordan rules. You can't like there. All of these other books exist about him. You have to figure out a way to do it. So when I finally like cracked that chapter, I was really excited. I was really happy with how it turned out. Again, it's the weirdest, dumbest one in there, but it's also my, my favorite for those same sort of reasons.

[Mike Gorman]

I want to go back to the concept of expensive basketball. Right? Basically, it's like basketball as poetry. Poetry is basketball. Like that. Like he said, poetic. You even have some poems. Like you have a William Carlos William poem in there. You have like a Shelley poem in there or Lord Byron poem in there.

[Will]

But Greg's a formula English teacher, so this is right up his alleyway right here.

[Chase Serrano]

Let's go.

[Mike Gorman]

English major English teacher. But one thing that really stands out to me about your writing in general is that your writing also kind of taps into that, like, visceral part of being a human being. Like, there's that at the very end of the Tim Duncan chapter, you go into this little anecdote of you sitting there in silence, you know, watching something unrelated to the spurs with your father. And then your father just says to you, I miss Tim Duncan. I do too. And you're like, that's all it needed to be. Like no other words were said. And like, to tap into that humanity, I think, is. Is really beautiful, right? And you make it, you write it in a way that's not cheesy. But then you also have, on the other side of that, when you're talking about Allen Iverson, you just have this little paragraph about how Allen Iverson is handsome. And you're like, I don't know why this is important, but this is important. And I remember watching basketball when the Celtics were playing the Sixers back when I was, you know, in my teenage years, and I was watching it with my mom and my sister and they had a five minute conversation about how Allen Iverson would be the prettiest girl if he was a girl.

[Chase Serrano]

But.

[Mike Gorman]

But I hadn't thought about that moment until I read your paragraph about how he's handsome and I was like, he, that's so right. Like, like there was these little human elements of basketball that you, you're able to capture your writing and I just want to give you kudos on that.

[LifeLock Announcer]

The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less Holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com SpecialOffer terms apply.

[Thumbtack Announcer]

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app download today.

[Chase Serrano]

Well, thank you. That, that means a lot. I'm glad you're, I'm glad you're paying attention. It makes you feel good.

[Will]

Yeah, I got, I got a couple of Celtics anecdotes that pop up in the book here that I wanted to, to hit on here. One was you have a section of the book about the 1996 draft, which is obviously very famous because it's just, even when you write it out, it's insane. How many different All Stars, like from hall of Famers to just like mid tier all stars would have still been a good draft. If you just take out the hall of Famers and it's just the mid tier all Stars. And one of those guys is Antoine Walker, who was my favorite Celtic growing up. Greg and I were Both born in 89, so by the time. That's exactly where I'm going. Shay, that's, that's my all time favorite move. And when you mention it in the footnotes about the Walker Wiggle, I got so excited because that's like my favorite, that's my favorite basketball thing ever is the Walker Wiggle. I've always loved Antoine Walker. Why do you shoot so many threes? Because there are no fours. What a great answer. Just unbelievable. A man ahead of his time. And so as someone who, you know, lived in Texas his whole life and we talked about, I thought about this when you mentioned like David Robinson, like how crazy Would David Robinson coming from the Navy to the NBA today be like, that's just a mind boggling story that gets overlooked because it happened in the 80s, right? Like, and so even for, you know, the way that basketball has now exploded, we even mentioned league pass like earlier. Like, we can watch whatever game we want. A guy like Antoine Walker, especially in, in 96, on a really bad Celtics team that's not doing, you know, they're not on national TV anymore. Like they were early in the 90s, 80s, obviously with Bird and kind of what carried over. So how does something like the Walker wiggle get on a guy like yours radar in the 90s, like, like, how does that come to be and what do you remember of it?

[Chase Serrano]

The way that that comes to be is I have sort of always been pulled toward the basketball players who, who possess like a. I don't know what the exact word is. They have like a cool gravity to them. They just like do stuff and you go like, oh, that guy was probably the coolest guy at his high school and probably the coolest guy in his college. Like, you know what I mean? Antoine Walker always presented as that he just obscenely confident doing like the. Doing cool things on a basketball court. Kind of a showboat, but in a way that there's like a Jordan Poole version of showboating. Jordan Pool is probably my least favorite player to watch in the, in the league, right? He'll do something that maybe Antoine Walker would do. But Antoine Walker seemed to understand the like theater of the moment. He knew when to do it and how to do it and, and did it in a way that just had like a pool to it. And so you happen across it or even just. You don't even need to see him play basketball. You just need to see him on a page in Slam magazine. And you're like, there's something about this guy that I want to know more about, right? Like, there's a class of players who do that. Antoine Walker for me was, was one of those guys, one of those, like, how do I watch this? Because again, you mentioned he's drafted in 96. This is pre Internet. This is pre league pass. This is you. You can't watch a Celtics game in San Ant know if it's not. If they're not either playing the spurs or if they're not like the national game of the week type type situation. So they, they like grow in the back of your head as these sort of like Vince Carter, you're hearing all of these stories about him. And then in College is when I, I moved out of San Antonio and I still wanted to watch the spurs. So my dad got me a league pass for Christmas. And then I just started watching every single basketball game that I could. But then, yeah, Antoine, I was like, Antoine Walker, Kenny Anderson had the, the same sort of thing about him. Stefan Marbury, like, there's a group of guys who were just, they just are cool. And Antoine Walker was, was, was one of those, for me, that I thought the Antoine Walker, Paul Pierce Celtics was like, this is a great, this is a great duo. Why do we not talk more about. Why are they not. Stephen kg, Antoine Walker and Paul, you know what I mean? Like, it should be, that should be part of the, the conversation. But that was a fun, that was a fun team. Remember, they had.

[Will]

I don't know if you're pandering, Shay, but you just made my day with that.

[Chase Serrano]

No, I mean, he's in the, he's in the book like he's in the basketball and other things book. Like the same sort of thing. Remember that great playoff series they had against the Nets? Oh, come on. Early 2000s, when they're just going back the big like 20, was it 22 point, fourth quarter comeback. Like.

[Mike Gorman]

We have a great story about that. So we were probably what, 12, 12 or 13. And we're watching that game in. At Will's. Will's apartment. His grandmother's babysitting us at the time. You know, it's a, the. The weather's starting to turn. And when the weather starts to turn in Boston, even if it's like 50 degrees, that's when the tank tops and the shorts come out and everyone acts like it's summertime. You're just breaking the cold, you're all thawing out. So we were just like excited that the weather was turning, but I was will of a Red Sox fan than a Celtics fan when we were younger. So when that game started to, to turn and it looked like the Celtics were going to lose, Will and our buddy Chris went outside to play wiffle ball, right? So they're outside playing wiffle ball and I'm just locked in. I'm sitting there with Will's grandma who's like baking me chocolate chip cookies and fucking brownies and stuff. And I'm just watching the game with this grandma and the, the comeback happens. Paul Pierce gets on a heater. He stands on the table at the end of the game and I full speed sprint up the stairs from Will's basement apartment onto the street. And I'm like, Running like Gary Birth here style. In the hospital with my arms. And I'm just like, we.

[Will]

And they didn't believe it.

[Mike Gorman]

They didn't believe it. Like, get the out of here.

[Will]

I'm like, no, dude, we won the game.

[Chase Serrano]

I watched that game. I was in college at the time. I watch it at my buddy's apartment. And we just. You just couldn't. They get rolling like that. And you want to see it? It's like this. It's 14. Now it's 6. Now it's 3. Like, you're just. Oh, my God. It just felt like an avalanche coming down on the poor. The poor Nets. I mean, they still won the series.

[Will]

They won the series. So them. They're fine. They. They went on to win the series. But.

[Chase Serrano]

But that. You don't remember the series. You remember that game? You remember? Yeah, I remember specifically the Paul Pierce post game when he's like on the court screaming at the reporter like, you know. You know what I mean? It was great. It was great. Oh, man.

[Will]

One other Celtic and I wanted to get to here that you had that I thought was. Was really interesting. And Greg, I want to know if you actually knew this or not. Okay, but. So it's. It's from. I forget what part of the book it's in, but it. But it talks about Kobe after the 08 finals. And I had never heard this story that during the 08 finals, game six, it's a blowout in Boston, right? Like the Celtics win the championship and Journey Don't Stop Believing, starts playing and the whole crowd starts singing it. I don't necessarily remember this part, but apparently in the book Shay, you talk about Kobe, then listened to that song every day for two years like a maniac. He's an absolute maniac. It's an unbelievable story. And then I was thinking about it, and yes, he ends up beating the Celtics. Two years later, in between that time, he still won a championship and still continued to listen to Journeys don't Stop believing until he beat the Celtics.

[Chase Serrano]

And.

[Will]

And I had never heard that before. I didn't know. Greg, have you. Had you heard that story before?

[Mike Gorman]

No, but it reminds me a lot of Peyton Pritchard's comment this preseason when they asked him if they were going to win a championship this year or if they were contenders. Is his mindset changing? And he was like, no, because everything that we do this year is building to the next championship. And I just wanted to make a comparison between Kobe Bryant and Peyton Pritchard.

[Chase Serrano]

Yeah, that's a great Story. Any. Any like Kobe story you read is always like, is this true?

[Will]

Right.

[Chase Serrano]

You know, you know, I mean, like every single.

[Mike Gorman]

All the people that he's called over the years.

[Chase Serrano]

My favorite. Yeah, my favorite Kobe story was the one. I don't. I. I never remember the rookie's name because it's really not about the rookie, it's about Kobe. But the Lakers draft some rookie and he decides he wants to be like, in college, he was the first guy to practice. I'm going to do that. I'm just going to work my way onto this team. And so, you know, practice, whatever is at 9 o' clock. And he shows up at 8 and Kobe's in there shooting. And he's like, all right, tomorrow, I'm coming at seven. He comes at seven and he gets there and Kobe's in there shooting six. He gets there at six, Kobe's in there shooting. And he's like, I gotta get here at five o' clock in the morning to beat this guy. And then Kobe breaks his wrist. Remember, Kobe broke his wrist. Breaks his wrist. And the. The rookie, the. I wish I could remember his name, but he's telling the story and he's like, well, it was like sucky that Kobe got hurt, but I was feeling good because I was gonna be the first guy at practice. And then he gets to practice at five o' clock the next day, and as he's walking to the court, he hears the basketball and he's like, you got to be kidding me. And Kobe's in there shooting with his other hand and it's like, again, is that true? Did that really. But. But it's Kobe. It's got to be true. You know what I mean?

[Will]

No. 100%. That's like the. The lore that will forever live on with Kobe. Now, Greg, I want to bring this up to shape, but this was. This was your on here. I want you to pitch Shay on what could be a follow up to expensive basketball.

[Mike Gorman]

Yeah, Inexpensive basketball. What is inexpensive basketball? Is it gilded, gilded basketball or is it just basketball as Jordan pool? Because I. You brought him up as your least favorite, your least favorite player.

[Will]

Instead of the Jordan rules, the Jordan pool rules.

[Mike Gorman]

And I was just trying to think of like, are there any moments just, you know, one will. Will suffice. That like really stand out to you as the opposite of expensive basketball? I'll give you one example. Just as your brain starts thinking about it. Ricky Davis's triple double where he threw the ball off his own basket just to get the final rebound. So he could have a triple double. Stands out to me as something that would be gilded basketball or inexpensive basketball.

[Chase Serrano]

That's a good example of inexpensive basketball. A hilarious moment, inexpensive basketball. But, yeah, now it just becomes, well, what stuff that doesn't seem like all that awesome. Like, if I. If I turned on a game and I. And I saw, like, I don't know, I'm gonna pick a guy, I'm gonna pick it up, I'm gonna pick an old player so as to not offend any of the new players. Let's say I turned on the game and I saw George Mirasan dribbling, dribbling the ball up court like he was the guy initiating the offense. I would go like, well, something has gone wrong here. This is. This is inexpensive. Like a very tall guy dribbling a ball always looks inexpensive. With the exception of Wimby, he's the only one. But anybody above 7 foot, you're like, you shouldn't. Don't do that. Just go in the post. So, you know, and that's a. That's an example of inexpensive, inexpensive basketball. Let's go. I'll give you one more. Let's go. Popeye Jones shooting a free throw. That feels. That feels inexpensive.

[Will]

Hey, we've got a list here, Greg. I think you put Ben Wallace free throws. So that's not. That's not too far away. Same similar concept there. Yeah.

[Mike Gorman]

So, Chris Paul, stop. So you run into me. Foul baiting like that feels inexpensive.

[Chase Serrano]

Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one.

[Will]

We've got. Let's see what else we got in here. We've got Carlos Boozers, fake hair.

[Chase Serrano]

Oh, I like that. I disagree. That felt expensive to me.

[Will]

Here's the thing. Jalen Brown's coming for that because he's basically graffiti ing the league now. Just constantly leaving his mark, literally, on teams around the league.

[Chase Serrano]

I can't believe that. So the tricky part, the tricky part with this, and. And this is why I love this Chris Paul one as an example, because you can't just pick, like, sucky stuff. You got to pick stuff that's kind of like that Chris Paul doing that. That's a smart play. It's a smart play on his part. And it makes sense from, like a. Trying to gain a tactical advantage in the game. But it kind of sucks, and that's why it's inexpensive. You know, James Harden drawing a foul, Smart play on his part. Kind of sucks to watch, like. Yeah. So, all right, you're putting it together. You guys write that One, though. I like to celebrate stuff. I like to celebrate. I don't want to denigrate.

[Will]

Can we. Can we get it published on Halfway Books?

[Chase Serrano]

Yeah, let's go crazy. Let's do Halfway. Oh, that's funny. When you meant you. Like you said, he's the CEO of Halfway Books, like, it's a real company. It's literally just me in my little office being like, I've made a hoodie. We're a company now.

[Will]

Yeah, I looked it up. I was like, he doesn't actually have a title. Like, I'm it. I'm just gonna say CEO. We'll see what happens. Because I don't think it actually matters.

[Chase Serrano]

It does. It does.

[Mike Gorman]

You got time for one? One quick little 16, 60 second segment to end the pod?

[Chase Serrano]

I got time. I got however much time you need. I gotta. Yeah, I got time. Let's go.

[Will]

All right, we got one last segment that we always do here with our. With our guests here that are on for the first time. It is called the green with envy. 62nd F. So really what we're going to do here, Shay, Greg and I are going to go back and forth. We're going to put 60 seconds on my cell phone here, and we're go back and forth asking you quick questions that need quick answers. Don't even think about it. And then when you're done, we're going to trap you, cut it up into a segment, put it on the Internet, and make you tied to that take for the rest of your life. Does that sound great?

[Chase Serrano]

Sounds fair and reasonable.

[Will]

That's all this show is about, being fair and reasonable. All right, Greg, let's hit it here. In 3, 2, 1, go.

[Mike Gorman]

If you're ordering chilaquiles, you go in rojo or verde green.

[Will]

Wemby will be a better all time player than Tim Duncan. Fact or fiction?

[Chase Serrano]

Fiction.

[Mike Gorman]

The best type of taco is bean.

[Chase Serrano]

And cheese on a flour tortilla.

[Will]

What is your favorite way that Pusha T describes selling drugs when he called.

[Chase Serrano]

Himself the L. Ron Hubbard of the cupboard?

[Mike Gorman]

What is. What is the best signature celebration in NBA history?

[Chase Serrano]

Let's go with LeBron's. Whatever this thing was, it doesn't even have a name.

[Will]

Best Boston movie of all time is the town.

[Mike Gorman]

Did Jason Concepcion steal the burrito?

[Chase Serrano]

He did not.

[Will]

Your favorite Scrubs moment. Scrubs coming back.

[Chase Serrano]

Check it out.

[Will]

Favorite Scrubs moment is.

[Chase Serrano]

Where do you think we are?

[Mike Gorman]

Last question. Will we get a season two of Primo?

[Chase Serrano]

No, they all the characters died in a car crash. That's how the season one ended.

[Will]

My wife was actually watching a show last night, and one of the uncles was on a show, and my first thought was, oh, that's the dude from Primo.

[Chase Serrano]

So I love when they say I.

[Mike Gorman]

I really liked Primo. I watched every episode. I thought it was hilarious.

[Chase Serrano]

Than my.

[Mike Gorman]

Yeah, it was really cool.

[Will]

My favorite.

[Mike Gorman]

My favorite character. Well, the mom is. Is amazing. She's. She's unbelievable in that. But there's one uncle. I forget his name, but he looks like Obama. I don't know if you know which one I'm talking about.

[Chase Serrano]

Jonathan Medina.

[Mike Gorman]

Okay.

[Chase Serrano]

Jonathan Medina in real life.

[Mike Gorman]

I love him, man. He was cool. I was like, man, this guy looks like Obama. And that's why I liked him.

[Will]

Hey, Mexican Obama. I like it. I like it.

[Chase Serrano]

I think he's Puerto Rican, actually.

[Will]

Okay, Puerto Rican Obama, then. Shay, we appreciate you joining us here, man. This has been something that has been on our list for things that we want to accomplish since we started the podcast about five years ago is getting you on the show. So being able to make that happen is. Is really special for us. Just a couple of brown guys with Internet connections just making it happen out here. And so, number one, thank you to you for joining us here. But also tell everybody where to go buy this book. I mean, you don't really need our help to sell this book. This book is selling itself. But if people don't know, make sure they know where they can go. Cop expensive basketball.

[Chase Serrano]

No, I need your help. I need everybody's help to go buy the book. It is available in every single bookstore that you can go into. If you don't want to go to a bookstore, just type Expensive Basketball into Google and then whatever link pops up, buy it from there. But yeah, it was a New York Times bestseller, which is great. It was. I was really proud of the fact that it was an independent bookstore bestseller. Like, the indies have their own list, and it was number one on that list, which made me feel very good. It was on the USA Today bestseller list. Like, it's all over the place. But, yeah, any place they sell books go buy their expensive basketball, you're gonna love it or you're gonna hate it. I don't know. But if you buy it, I get some money, and that's always good for me. Shay.

[Will]

Appreciate you coming by, Greg. You're the one more thing King. Any final thoughts here for Shay before we. We sign off?

[Mike Gorman]

Shay, I really liked what you and Jason used to do on six Trophies where you would just name random players that kind of came into your mind to end the pod. And I was, I was scrolling through LinkedIn today and one of my buddies that I played high school basketball with, he commented on a post and I thought you might appreciate this. Somebody was describing themselves in business as Michael Redd and he just, hell yeah, Milwaukee legend, baby. But he, his comment was, you just need to find your Scoony Pen. And I hadn't thought about Scooby Pen in a long time. And I was like, I need to tell Shay this because Cooney Penn is one, first of all, one of the greatest basketball names ever. Didn't really do anything in the league, but just a fun name to think about.

[Chase Serrano]

Yeah, what a name. What a name that was.

[Will]

Hey, couldn't think of a better way to end this podcast than Scoony Pen. It was just meant to be. It was written in the stars. Shay, appreciate you for joining us here, man. Everybody out there go cop expensive basketball. We'll be back with more green with envy on Sunday. Celtics and Magic at a couple of games this weekend. We will recap that for you on Sunday. Everybody enjoy your weekend. Peace.

[Chase Serrano]

It don't take much no more Until.

[Will]

I hit the floor Every time I.

[Chase Serrano]

Hit this high it's you I find it don't take much no more Until I met you.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should should. One, it's 15amonth. Two, seriously, it's 15amonth. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it.

[Will]

Are you.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try.

[Chase Serrano]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of 45 for 3 month plan.

[Multicare Announcer]

15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer for 3 months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.