Takeaways from Brad Stevens (and Bill Chisholm's) Jaylen Brown Press Conference

Summary

Green With Envy: Boston Celtics Podcast

Episode: Takeaways from Brad Stevens (and Bill Chisholm's) Jaylen Brown Press Conference
Date: July 7, 2026
Hosts: Will & Greg Menakis
Theme: Immediate reactions and in-depth analysis of the official Jaylen Brown trade press conference with Celtics President Brad Stevens and owner Bill Chisholm.

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Episode Overview

This live episode dives into the immediate aftermath of the press conference where Celtics executive Brad Stevens and owner Bill Chisholm addressed the stunning Jaylen Brown trade to the Philadelphia 76ers for Paul George and four draft picks. Will and Greg break down the logic, emotional impact, and lingering questions from both the trade and the presser, offering honest and sometimes raw fan perspective on the future of the franchise.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Initial Reactions to the Press Conference

• Greg opens by saying the press conference provided little satisfaction or deeper understanding:

  “The answers that Brad Stevens gave, which basically were, hey, we thought this was actually like not a bad move basketball wise for our team... that's the part that doesn't really sit well with me just because I think Jaylen Brown is a better player than Paul George.” (03:12)

• Will echoes the disappointment in the lack of new information and the careful, PR-tinged answers about roster flexibility and cap issues, but appreciates Brad’s candor on emotional topics:

  “There was genuine emotion and reality from Brad Stevens... talking about like, you know, him and Bill just having to explain this to their kids. Right? Like, that was real... but some of it is still entirely disappointing.” (04:21)

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2. Financial Rationale & “70% of the Cap”

• The hosts analyze Stevens' repeated references to the unsustainability of having Tatum and Brown eat up 70% of the salary cap.

• Key Quote (Will):

  “He was very open about saying 70% of the cap to two guys. I don't think that's sustainable to build a contender... and then he was rightfully asked and acknowledged—Paul George makes the same exact amount of money.” (05:04)

• Greg unpacks the draft picks as a supposed “premium asset,” expressing skepticism:

  “It truly seemingly comes down to they value the 2028 draft... they get Philly's chance and then they get the swap with the Clippers if the Clippers are in the top nine... so they have two chances.” (06:52)

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3. Why Paul George? Why Now?

• The trade timing is seen as puzzling. The hosts ask why not wait another year if cap relief and flexibility are the main issues, especially when George’s contract doesn’t bring much relief and his value as an expiring could be realized later.

• Will:

  “Paul George coming back is the part that doesn’t make sense. Like, I can get behind needing roster flexibility… but bringing back Paul George— who’s seven years older, injury-prone, and not really a cap-saving move—just doesn’t track.” (09:23)

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4. On Jason Tatum and Locker Room Dynamics

• Brad Stevens claims that Tatum had no say in the trade, which surprised both hosts but felt convincing.

• Greg:

  "Jason Tatum found out like everybody else found out, which is really surprising that that's how they handle business." (15:58)

• Will and Greg discuss the implications for Tatum’s leadership:

  “His leadership has always been a little bit of a question... there are certain moments, certain times where you have to break your own mold. I thought this was kind of one of those times.” (35:48)

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5. Ownership, Private Equity, and Willingness to Spend

• Both hosts lament that ownership (specifically Bill Chisholm) gave weak public assurances about spending when it counts, sidestepping tough questions about private equity’s role.

• Will:

  “I wanted them to put like, a little bit of, like, you know, feet to the iron... I wanted that name mentioned. I wanted that in the face. Like, so you have this, there’s a payment schedule. What’s the breakdown? How does that decision... affect big moves like this?” (17:15)

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6. Grading the Trade & The Missed Opportunity for “One More Run”

• The move is called out as unsatisfying and emotionally deflating, especially since the Jays never got a healthy full run after their 2024 title.

• Greg:

  “We barely touched that [team’s prime championship window] with these guys. And that’s really what sucks, is that, you know, Jalen’s 29, Tatum’s 28... now that window is shut before it even got to the halfway point.” (33:18)

• Will:

  “I just wanted to see now with this Mitchell Robinson move, with Mike Conley... what a fully rehabbed Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown looked like one more time.” (23:27)

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7. Concerns About Trade Value & Unanswered Questions

• Will references a Chris Mannix report that other teams could have matched or exceeded Philly’s offer but the Celtics acted quickly and didn’t re-canvas the league:

  “He thought their offer as is was better than what the Celtics took. And number two, he said... we were fully ready to up our offer... couldn’t believe that the Celtics took what they did.” (37:41)

• Topics the hosts wish were asked more forcefully in the presser:

  • Why not push for youth assets like VJ Edgecomb or Lebaron Phylon, given Philly’s guard surplus?
  • Details about which alternative offers were truly on the table?
  • More direct scrutiny on private equity constraints.

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8. 2028 Draft Pick — Holy Grail or Overhyped?

• Greg and Will get into whether the 2028 pick could actually turn into a franchise changer—and whether that justifies the trade.

• Will:

  “I think the 28 pick has a chance to be pretty valuable, actually. Enough to trade Jalen Brown? No, but enough to be valuable.” (41:09)

• Greg:

  “If it ends up being the number one pick... would you have traded Jalen Brown for one of the top four picks in this year’s draft, straight up? ...It becomes a much more worthy gamble. And I do think that Brad and this team drafting... is what’s going to make the difference in that 2028 pick.” (42:27)

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9. Quick Positive: Nimi Keta Extension

• Amid the gloom, the hosts celebrate the Celtics inking a team-friendly extension with center Nimi Keta:

  “Nimi Keta, four years, 56 million... a big win in the front court with, with those guys given the limited resources to, to upgrade.” (45:44)

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10. Fan Reactions and Farewell to Jaylen Brown

• Listeners are urged to celebrate Jaylen Brown at his pop-up farewell event.
• Will:

  “I hope this place is packed. I hope there’s a capacity limit. I hope fire department gets called and I hope people, you know, it’s right across from TD Garden. Make it real loud and known just how unhappy they are about this trade and they show love and support for Jaylen Brown.” (49:53)

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Memorable Quotes

• Greg (03:12): "I think Jaylen Brown is a better player than Paul George."
• Will (05:04): “He was very open about saying 70% of the cap to two guys. I don't think that's sustainable… but Paul George makes the same exact amount of money.”
• Greg (33:18): “We barely touched that [prime championship window]… now that window is shut before it even got to the halfway point of what it’s supposed to be.”
• Will (23:27): “I just wanted to see... what a fully rehabbed Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown looked like one more time.”
• Will (49:53): “Make it real loud and known just how unhappy they are about this trade and they show love and support for Jaylen Brown.”

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Important Timestamps

• 01:16: Official trade recap & opening reactions to the press conference.
• 03:12: Greg’s immediate emotional and basketball reaction.
• 05:04–06:52: Stevens’ salary cap rationale and the value of picks.
• 09:23–11:59: Will questions the rationale of bringing back Paul George instead of waiting.
• 13:03–14:49: Paul George vs. Jaylen Brown: Playoff/Regular season implications.
• 15:24–17:43: Jason Tatum’s supposed lack of involvement in the trade decision.
• 23:27–24:58: Desire to see Tatum/Brown have “one more run.”
• 28:37: Disappointment with press conference questions and lack of transparency.
• 33:18–35:18: Reflections on the lost “prime window” for the Jays.
• 37:41: Will relays Chris Mannix’s report on better offers for Jaylen.
• 45:44: Nimi Keta extension celebrated as a big positive.
• 49:47: Details about Jaylen Brown’s farewell pop-up event.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• The hosts are both emotionally and analytically unsatisfied by the trade and the press conference, feeling the stated rationale fails to line up with either competitive or financial logic.
• The “70% of the cap” reasoning rings hollow given the Paul George return; real roster flexibility and a brighter future remain in question.
• Tatum's leadership and ownership's financial commitment are under further scrutiny.
• A sense of rushed timing, lack of value maximization, and unsatisfying unanswered questions leaves the door open to gossip and speculation.
• The episode ends with a bittersweet celebration of Jaylen Brown’s community impact and a note of hope with the Keta extension, but an overarching sadness about the team’s direction.

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For Celtics fans, this episode is a cathartic, honest look at one of the most consequential—and confusing—moves in recent team history, providing an essential recap of the press conference and what it did (and didn’t) resolve.

Transcript

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[Greg Menakis]

This is Mike Gorman and you're listening

[Will]

to Green with Envy with Will and Greg. All right everybody, it's officially Official here on July 6th, the Jaylen Brown trade to the Philadelphia 76ers for Paul George. Two first round picks, two second round picks is officially in ink and the ink is dry. We just got done with the Brad Stevens and Bill Chisholm presser. We're gonna get into it, we're gonna recap, we're gonna debrief, see if we can few days later here figure out what the hell happened on July 1st. So we're doing this live here on YouTube and Twitter. So if you guys are also just getting off of the press conference stream, get in the chat, let us know what questions you still have. We'll go through what was answered, what's unanswered. Scream with Envy. You guys know the deal. Let's lock in. Welcome into another edition of Green with Envy. We are coming to you live on YouTube, live on Twitter immediately following the Brad Stevens and Bill Chisholm press conference to address the now official Jalen Brown trade to the Philadelphia 76ers. That brings back Paul George, two first round picks and two second round picks. Joining me to discuss how we're feeling, what we can analyze and what we learned, what we still don't know, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and Only Greg Menakis. Greg, this literally, the, the press conference literally finished five, ten minutes ago here. Do you feel any more satisfied or any more understanding of what happened five days ago?

[Greg Menakis]

No. Especially with the answers that Brad Stevens gave, which basically were, hey, we thought this was actually like not a bad move basketball wise for our team this upcoming year. You know, that's the part that doesn't really sit well with me just because I think Jaylen Brown is a better player than Paul George. And you know, if their whole thesis in that press conference is this allows us to stay competitive this year, be competitive in the future and also maintain the Celtic standard of doing all moves to win, I don't think that this was a move that actually fit that. You know, like, I don't, I truly don't believe this makes the team better for next year. And as Brad Stevens said, he doesn't know. Right. He said maybe we made the wrong move. I actually appreciated his candor for the most part in, in the press conference. But ultimately, at the end of the day it just makes me question his decision making, man, where I'm like, okay, so the story is that you just thought this was the right move for the team and there was no other, no other like behind the scenes silver bullet that existed. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Will]

Yeah, I feel just as satisfied as I kind of expected going into this. To your point, I think in Small Pockets there was genuine emotion and reality from, from Brad Stevens about his feelings on Jalen Brown, what he's meant to the community, talking about like, you know, him and Bill just having to explain this to their kids. Right. Like, I think there, there was like, that was real, like I enjoyed that piece of it, but I, I mean I think we could have pretty much predicted a lot of some of the other stuff that that was said in here and, and some of it is, you know, it's, it's just still entirely disappointing some of it. You know, Brad has to talk around because he can't talk about certain things like the way he had to allude about, you know, Mitchell Robinson and other signings and you know, of course we weren't gonna get answers like, oh yeah, we traded for Paul George and we were hoping that would lead immediately to Trey Murphy. And it didn't like, you know what I mean? Like you can't say stuff like that. So you're, There was no chance that they were going to go out then. We weren't going to be left feeling more empty. I do think we, we were hoping to maybe feel like there were more answers beyond some of the obvious things we've already looked at, at this trade from every angle over five days. And it hit some of the keynotes that we were like, okay, this is why we think it happened even if we still don't understand it. And the biggest thing or one of the biggest things that stood out to me was he was very open about saying 70% of the cap to two guys. I don't think that that's sustainable to be able to build a contender. And then he was rightfully asked and he acknowledged like, oh yeah, Paul George makes the same exact amount of money. Which weird side note that happened during this press conference. I don't know if you caught this. Bobby Marks mentioned that Paul George turned down his trade kicker. I don't really know why. I haven't really dug into that, but didn't. Didn't take that on. So it is slightly more savings for the Celtics here in this transaction. And I think that's one of the things for me that just still doesn't hold up. I get the two picks and Brad leaned really heavy on just getting those two picks which we.

[Greg Menakis]

Premium assets will. Premium ass.

[Will]

Yeah, I literally wrote that down in my notes here. Draft picks could be. Could be premium assets. That's. That's the key component of that. And so I still think that that just falls short for me, man. It like it's three to two. And if you're telling me that this year, no matter what your roster flexibility is limited, I don't see. I still can't understand the reason that we wouldn't be wait to do this until next off season. Right like that. That's the part for me that just doesn't add up.

[Greg Menakis]

It's truly seemingly coming down to they value the 28 draft or they value the value of the 28 draft and what that pick could then get them like in a future pick, future player. Right. Because that basically gives them. From what I've read on it is it basically gives them two chances to get the number one overall pick in the draft. They get Philly's chance and then they get the swap with the Clippers. If the Clippers are in the top nine. I think it is something. Something like that where they have two chances.

[Will]

That's the year that we have it top one protected against the Spurs.

[Greg Menakis]

What do you say that say 2028.

[Will]

We have a. We have a swap with the spurs in 28 from the Derrick White trade. But we top one protected it. So if we somehow end up with the first pick. The spurs can't swap that pick with us.

[Greg Menakis]

Okay. But we also have the opportunity to get the Clippers if they, if they end up with the number.

[Will]

Right, right. I'm saying that's the two chances. It's our own chance. And then, and then the Clippers.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that, you know, with, with the way that they're looking at that draft pick, and then you look at the 2031 draft pick or 2032 draft pick, whatever, which one that is, like, that's what Jaylen Brown is worth, a couple of draft picks. And like, you think that there's enough of a lateral move between Jalen and Paul George for this upcoming season and the season after, because it seems like they were pretty hell bent on just trading Jaylen Brown. No matter what Brad Stevens said in the press conference today, they wanted to move Jaylen Brown. They felt like they weren't going to pay him long term. They weren't going to take up 70% of the cap. As there's a comment here from Amaral Prime 8331. The comment that's sticking from that whole ordeal was when we won in 24, those meaning Tatum and Brown accounted for 47% of the cap at 70%. Are they good enough players to carry a team? They had a lot of help in 24. Let's not beat around the bush there. They had a lot of help, and if they didn't think that those two guys were good enough on their own to carry the Celtics to the next championship, then that's the, that seems to be the reason, is they think that there's a better star out there in the future that's going to be more cost controlled than Jalen Brown is that won't take up 70% of the cap. Or they just feel like, you know, they're going to be able to internally develop some of the guys that they mentioned in the press conference. It was strange that Jordan Walsh. I think Jordan Walsh was one of the guys like I mentioned in the press conference, right?

[Will]

Yeah, he did at one, at one point, yeah. Just for like the, the depth. But. And the thing that I think frustrates me, Greg, is I understand that reasoning. Like the 70% versus the 47%, building out a team that makes sense. Paul George coming back is the part that doesn't make sense. Like, I can, I can, I can get behind that. I, I. There probably wasn't a trade, and we've mentioned this many times once Giannis was off the board. There wasn't a trade that we're going to come back and be like, yep, we're, we probably feel like we're a better team, you know, right now than we were last year with, with Jaylen Brown. But like I the, the part of, of it taking up your much that that percentage of your cap I just don't get with bringing back Paul George who I, I think Brad snuck in there. Now remember Paul just as a player option. Paul George has barely, has played barely 70 games over the last two years. He's not turning down that option. It's a two year deal, right? Like so I thought that was one of the parts that Brad kind of snuck in there that I was like, don't treat us like we're stupid. Like it's going to be a two year deal. Like it's going to be a two year deal. And widely in every, you know, podcast I've tried to consume on this, like the general consensus around the league was that to move off of Paul George, the Sixers likely had to attach a pick to do it and you only got one more pick while sending out Jalen Brown. So to me, when I think about this whole roster flexibility and optionality remove the picks because that's all Brad did was just kept coming back to we really value those picks. And like you know, and to, to his credit he acknowledged as a fan as a younger kid, like it's the last thing he would ever want to hear. So I did appreciate that where he understands that that's not going to be something that's going to sell a fan base. But you know, those picks like, those picks aside, like you're going to be stuck with Paul George for two years more likely than not. Look, I understand even when he becomes an expiring there might be other options. But like it's not a deal that you can really expect to then move again and do kind of the, you know, the way that we went from Chris Staps and Drew Holiday to George Niang to this to that, to Anthony Simons to Vuchevic, the way that those trades kind of did, like the Russian doll experiment down to a certain level, that's a lot harder with Paul George. His size, salary, his injury, concerns, his age, like it's just a lot harder to see the, the vision of, of how that plays out and how all of this attention on roster flexibility actually makes a lot of sense with this move.

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[Greg Menakis]

sipc and I think that's where it comes into they think Paul George is better than we think Paul George is. And they're not signing up for five years of Paul George as we would be signing up for five years of Jalen Brown. Like you're, you're going to have to offer them him that extension seemingly, if he's still on the team. Which is something I was surprised nobody, you know, explicitly addressed was were you willing to offer Jaylen Brown the two year extension? That question was not asked. And you know, I, I assume the answer is no. So it's like okay, three years of Jalen, two years of Paul George. Is Paul George still good enough player where like you're not factoring in the two years beyond that for the extension that you would not offer? You're only factoring in over the next two years, how close to Jalen Brown can Paul George be? And as we saw in the playoffs, like at least for a series, he can be almost on par if not better than Jaylen Brown. Right? So like if you're betting on internal development, it didn't seem like they really valued that much of the regular season. Especially when you compare what they did in the playoffs as a two versus seven and the seven seed beats them despite not having a good regular season. It's like okay, Jalen might be the better player for an 82 game season, but like what is the actual difference in the playoffs just getting from one round to the next round. Our young guys can carry us enough during the regular season where we're going to be competitive in then when it comes to the playoffs, what's the actual difference between Paul George and Jaylen Brown? I would argue that it's pretty, pretty significant, especially betting year after year after year. But when you limit it to this year and next year with Paul George, maybe they're saying, hey, it's not going to be that much of a difference.

[Will]

Yeah. And I think it was kind of telling the way Brad framed it, as if you have Jalen Brown on your team, you should run your offense through Jalen Brown. You should be running, you know, multiple parts of your offense through Jaylen Brown. Seemingly, to me insinuating we don't have to do that with Paul George. Like, Paul George is going to have to assimilate to whatever else. Like, we're not going to, at this stage of Paul George's career, assimilate to him being on the team. It's the other way around. And, you know, I mean that. I mean, we knew this even before the press conference. The. The keys of the car solely belong to Jason Tatum.

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Right.

[Will]

Like, there's. There's obviously no more debate about that. I think his. And that's. I would. I think we should talk about Jason Tatum for a minute, even as he was referenced a little bit in this press conference. You know, pretty quickly, Brad Stevens, that he did not. Does not talk about this with players. Had, you know, didn't. JT had absolutely no say in. In what was gonna happen, in which I think we kind of. We kind of guessed that that was the case, I think when we've talked about Jason Tatum on past podcasts. But Morbin, he could have just volunteered to speak up and say something, you know, like, that's.

[Greg Menakis]

That's where just like make a post on. On Instagram and be like, hey, all these rumors out there, me and my guy, jb, we ride for life. And then now the Celtics are in like, a really awkward position where they have to, you know, be like, hey, jt, we're trading jb. Are you cool with it? It seems like they just did the deal. Jason Tatum found out like everybody else found out, which is really surprising that that's how they handle business. But I believe Brad Stevens when.

[Will]

Yeah, I do too.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah. So, like, I'm not calling here, gonna call Brad Stevens a liar. It's good with words, though. He is really good with words.

[Will]

I. I do interesting watching him and Bill Chisholm, because he wasn't ready.

[Greg Menakis]

He wasn't ready.

[Will]

Stevens handled that like, like a very seasoned vet. Like, even trying to throw in a little laughter, a little humor every. Every now and then. Bill Chisholm was not prepared for. And he was. He must have been so Thankful he got, like, two questions, which I think when we, we've asked the media through our Twitter account multiple times. I think they did an okay job. I think they did probably pretty good job. BB plus job. You mentioned the extension about Jaylen, and I, I, I kind of wish someone had just straight up been, like, beat around the bush about private equity and do like, like, just say it, say the terms like, put, put it.

[Greg Menakis]

Like they said, like your ownership group. I think that's what.

[Will]

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I wanted them to put like, a little bit of, like, you know, feet to the iron, a little bit like you have. I think it's, I Forget if it's 6th Street Capital, whatever the name of the capital is, private equity firm is. Like, I wanted that name mentioned. I wanted that, like, in the face. Like, so you have this, There's a payment schedule. Like, what's the breakdown? How, how does that decision, like, I kind of wanted in some realm that to be pushed into his face a little bit more to see what that reaction was.

[Greg Menakis]

He would, he would have been very

[Will]

uncomfortable given the fact that he didn't handle the two questions. He got. Great. It makes me a little disappointed that we didn't, that we didn't get that part of it.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah, he, he definitely was struggling up there. I thought Brad did a good job, man. Like, I, I disagree with Brad. Just like, you know, he said in the press conference, he understands most people disagree with him, and most people, he didn't say it, but most people think he's crazy for making this deal. Bill was struggling up there, man. He was really, really not prepared for the press conference, and you could see him really feeling the nerves. And there was even one point where Brad said something and he felt like he needed to, like, re. Emphasize it, but then make another point off of it. But he didn't really phrase it the way I think he was expecting it to come out. And which we get, we get that, man. We're on podcasts all the time where we're like, oh, I don't really know what I just said, but I almost

[Will]

forgot what I was saying a few minutes ago. I was like, get to your, get back to your point. Get back to your point. It took me a second.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah, like, I, I understand it, but, yeah, man. I mean, I think the Tatum thing, it's, it's really interesting because everybody was wondering, like, is there a smoking gun? Was there an argument behind the scenes? Did Jalen explicitly call Tatum out for sitting game seven? You know, I'm getting people Text me about friends of friends who heard this and heard that. And like, at the end of the day, I'm just like, I don't know how much of that is true. Like, people love feeling like they have inside information, myself included. I love feeling, like, important, like, oh, somebody shared something with me. Like, I gotta tell Will. You know, like, it's. It's something that you want to do. You want to feel like you have something that somebody else doesn't have in terms of that, like, juicy pieces of information. But it truly sounds like Brad Stevens just looked at the team and said, jalen Brown is not good enough to justify 35 of my cap. And I, we can't offer him an extension to, you know, re up on that. And he's not going to take less money. So we got to make a move now. And we're going to get a couple of premium assets, as he called it, and he thinks that's good enough for Jaylen Brown. I completely disagree with him. I think most people completely disagree with him. I think it makes us worse as a basketball team. And I think we had done enough with the free agent moves that I would have liked to have seen what this Celtics team could have been. With just bringing back everybody, adding Mitchell, Robinson and Adam, Mike Conley and adding whatever other piece, plus the internal development, I think that would have been really fun to watch. That's a team I could get behind. Now I'm gonna have to, like, really talk myself into some stuff. Like, all right, man. Like, it's not just Jalen you've been rooting for these past 10 years. You've been rooting for Pritchard, you've been rooting for J. J.T.

[Will]

you've been really excited about u bigger. Yeah, like, for him.

[Greg Menakis]

Jordan Walsh. I like Jordan Walsh's game, but I don't know, man. It's just Jalen was my guy and it hurts. And I also just don't agree with the reasoning.

[Will]

Yeah, I mean, it's. I wrote down, like, reasons you make a trade, and I just wanted to see if some of these got addressed. So, like, I had like six components and I was like, I wonder if I'm gonna feel like I understand this, this better now. So here's the six things I wrote down, Greg. The encore performance in a trade, you hope that. That you make it better. I just don't see that. You're seven years older, you got bad knees, guy plays less games. You know, outside of three point shooting, all the stats are worse. And that would make sense. For a guy that is seven years older from a guy in his prime. So that nothing changed about that in this press conference. Number two, is the contract slightly better two years versus three years. We've just talked about it. I still don't fully get why we couldn't have done this a year later. Because the roster flexibility and 70 of the cap, that stuff makes sense to me. The return and the timing just doesn't line up. Which that was also one of my kind of like reasons you make a trade is timing. I don't understand. I still don't understand the timing and I know there's specifics that Brad can't get into and that's where it gets into this weird. We have to rely on reports that are maybe reliable, maybe not reliable, that I'm sure will trickle out at different points this year. Next off season things will, will come out. The timing still doesn't make sense. The value is another thing that I have listed here two first round picks. I mean this is what Brad kept coming back to, that these two picks not only just represent potential players in the future that you get a swing at, but also the option to then help do other moves. Even those two second round picks, which

[Greg Menakis]

Bill Chisholm did say, I hope we get the opportunity because we will spend the money when the time comes. He's basically like pointing his finger at us, telling us he's not afraid to spend money. So him and his ownership group, they got deep pockets will and they will spend it when the time comes.

[Will]

I mean the indication so far has not been that. But I mean to his credit, he said he has to prove it. So we'll see about that. I wrote down the same thing about roster flexibility. We've talked about that. And then it got to the, the JT portion player franchise friction, you know, would be the reason that, that a trade gets done and you know, back to the, the JT part for a second. And did you see that, you know, he made his Instagram post or story like saying JB my guy, blah, blah, kind of cookie cutter stuff. But I found it more interesting that both Evan Turner and Jeff T, guys that have maintained relationships with very open relationships with Jason Tatum, even more so than Jalen Brown. Like they both are like, yeah, we play with jb, but they both actively on their podcast on different platforms talk about things that JT tells them. And both of them more or less different interactions with JT over the last few days where they came back like he was kind of up about it, like he was like, damn, I didn't see that going down. Like, you know, this is kind of. And we saw him in the ring. You know, JT's going on the JB training method, getting into the ring. And so I, I think he doesn't

[Greg Menakis]

have JB to protect him anymore. Man, that was his guy gotta step

[Will]

up, gotta be that new muscle. Gotta be that new muscle. And this is a lot of pressure on. On Jason Tatum, this particular move. And you know, Greg, you mentioned like I kind of wanted to see now with this Mitchell Robinson move with, you know, Mike Conley's whatever. But even Mike Conley coming in just to fortify that, you know that, that front the backcourt spots. Like, I kind of wanted to see what a fully rehab Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown look like one more time. Like that was something I leaned on a lot this year is. I can't imagine this ownership making a move without giving them one last chance fully formed. And I don't think last year should count. Maybe that's one of the issues is they especially because team game sample size and use that I could.

[Greg Menakis]

I totally agree with you because like the year they're defending their championship, Drew Holiday just fell off a cliff. Kristaps Brzingis didn't even play. Al Horford wasn't the same guy. Like, they didn't have the supporting cast that they had previous because they just weren't as good or weren't as available. Right? So Jason Tatum gets injured in the playoffs and we never really got to see them like go at it with just the two of them and the young guys. It was like the remnants of the championship team. Why are we just saying, oh, they can't carry this team now that they're both in their prime, they both have learned all these lessons. Why not see do it one more year. Just do it one more year and give everybody, give everybody in Celtics Nation. What they wanted was one more year with the Jays and a deal like this is still going to be available because it's not a good deal.

[Will]

They didn't. Have a specific deal. Like I was. I was golfing with our buddy Liptak yesterday and it was going over like talking about this trade and I was like, I still don't understand the financial piece because if the finances are so important to reset like Greg, let me ask you, if you think there's that much of a Delta in. In going to the Sacramento Kings and saying we'll take Zach Levine in your two picks, whatever years, like, is there that much of a Delta for one season. And that's an actual expiring that you can use immediate to go ahead and you know, whether you make a move at the deadline or do whatever. Like that's immediate if it's, if that's the case. And like between Zach Levine and Paul Gers, they both miss a ton of time. Zach Levine's probably the better all around offensive player at this time. Paul George is still the better, more well rounded player. And so that's probably more appealing given the way that the Celtics build out their roster. But this isn't about a long term roster move. So, so it's really. And we saw a Vuch for Simons, like that was clearly something that also kind of fit into this category of like Simons was the better player, but financially Vuch made more sense and you could talk yourself as I tried to into the on court rationale for it. So that's where just a lot of this breaks down is, is that timing and then if it is financial, like you definitely could have found other things that I'm gonna like equally as little as what you did. But at least you get to the point of what the goal is here quicker.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah, yeah. Any, Anything else you wish was asked during the press conference?

[Will]

I mentioned the private equity thing. That was one of the things that jumped out to me. You talked about the extension. Those were two things that I, I think I wished were addressed directly. You know, I, it's, it's some of the questions that, that we want asked are going to be like, directly about like Yanis negotiations, which I think someone did bring up. But you know, Brad's not gonna say. Right. Like, I don't think he can even like league, you know, league rules and such. So I, I think those were the two biggest things. I thought for a minute no one was gonna bring up the stream. And I was like, somebody's got to ask about this Jalen Brown stream. I think J. King finally brought it up. But was there anything else that, that you left feeling unful?

[Greg Menakis]

I mean, I wanted them to straight up ask about like why they didn't end up really pushing for VJ Edge Comb or why they didn't end up pushing for. To have lebaron Phylon thrown into the deal. Especially with Philly adding Simons. It's just like, like they have a surplus of guards. Why can't we just get one of those guards just to get another asset, you know what I mean? And maybe it came down to something as like, hey, you can have Phylon or You can have the two second round picks, take your pick, you know, like it's possible. And Brad basically said I'm not going to be able to talk about the deals that didn't get done. Right. I'm only going to be able to talk about this. So like that's the only other thing I would have liked to, I would like to know but I think in terms of would it have been a wasted question probably because he wouldn't be able to.

[Will]

And that's the tough part is trying to word these in a way that you're going to get an answer. So I'm even thinking right now like, like that that sparked to me something I was thinking during the press conference is like trying to get to more of the crux of the timings. I think that's a big part of this comes down to just why now? Like why July 1st and not September 1st when at least you're like training camps coming up. We need to like give ourselves a chance like you can, you can talk yourself, you know, into it. And so I think someone had asked something about like the other rumor trades and the value not being as high. And I wanted to add and Brad talked about how he think it was.

[Greg Menakis]

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[Will]

Yeah and Brad had kind of mentioned like how he thought this was really good value with the, with the picks and you know it's like why did you think that that value was never going to change between now and whenever. Right. Like that's, that's something along those lines. And I'm sure Brad, Bill wouldn't have found a way to be, to answer it properly, but Brad would have found a way to probably answer that in a way that doesn't say anything. And it's like, it's unknown. We're unsure. We had to do what was best in the moment. We knew that this was available here and now. We can't predict the future or something along those lines. But yeah, I, I think those would be some of the unanswered questions that probably at this press conference we weren't going to get the answers to. Both Bill and Brad alluded a lot to kind of speaking out of both sides of the mouth. Like, it's not finances, but second apron's real. And those, it's kind of a gray area because both of those are true. But it felt weird kind of balancing back and forth between it's not about money, but it is about money because of the second apron.

[Greg Menakis]

Well, they're using the second apron as an excuse to talk about flexibility and optionality. Right. Which is true. Like that does limit your roster building capabilities. It takes away stuff like the mid level exception and all that stuff. So like I get, I get what they're saying. It's just like when you have guys like Drew Holiday and you have the opportunity to retain them and just spend more money. Those are the p, those are the pieces where you're like, hey, Simons just went for two years, 12 million. Like he clearly isn't the player that you were hoping to sell this fan base on. Right. Why trade you Holiday for him if it's not about money?

[Will]

Right.

[Greg Menakis]

You know?

[Will]

Right.

[Greg Menakis]

I don't know. But then it becomes to the repeater tax and there's all this stuff that to do with that and roster building implications with that. So like, I get it, I get it. It's just not, not what you want to hear. And I think Brad did a good job of framing the press conference in that way. Like, listen, I know people don't like this trade. I know fans are not going to like this trade. It's something I have to deal with. I'm taking accountability for this and I, you know, I don't wish this job on anybody. Like he's basically like, I, I'm doing it so no one else has to do it, you know.

[Grainger Announcer]

Right.

[Greg Menakis]

I'm not sleeping at night so you all can sleep at night. Tell you this, Brad Stevens, I haven't Slept well since his trade.

[Will]

So send. Send a bill my ways. I need. I need to go. I need to go get some relaxation. I need a massage, something. I did like that. That Brad Stevens said. And I've heard Zach Lowe talk about this. I don't know if it's actually been something that's talked about, like, as a proposal. But Brad, you know, as part of one of the times that the second apron got brought up, he mentioned there's no benefit for, like, spending on the guys. You drafted it. And he said this would be a very different conversation if they cost 70, but only 50 of it, you know, affected us because we drafted and invested those guys. And that's always been something that I. I totally agree with that. Like, there should be a benefit for. For multiple reasons, right? Like, for front offices, for your fan base. Like, you should want to have these homegrown guys that don't destroy your books. Like, that's just. That's just bad for business. Business, Right? So I thought it was interesting that he vocalized that. Right. And again, I don't know if this has been a proposal that. That goes around. It's too late for us now. But every time it got brought up, this is the doomsday scenario that anybody that's a fan of the Celtics would think of is, we're gonna have to tear this down because we drafted too well. We had too successful of a decade that we don't get the final, you know, four years of what we were supposed to get. And, you know, that's really shitty because they've built everything up to this point. And again, NBA history tells us age 27 to about 32, 33 are the highest points of most hall of Famers prime somewhere in that range. Obviously, there's exceptions on both sides, and with the amount of success this always got to. We barely touched that. We barely touched that with these guys. And that's. That's really what sucks, is that, you know, Jalen's 29, Tatum's 28. They won a championship right before that window opened, and now that window is. Is shut before it even got to the halfway point of what it's supposed to be.

[Greg Menakis]

And then you look at, like, how old. How old the big three was when he brought them in. They were all older than what Tatum and Brown are right now. You know what I mean? It's like a point, like, we had three years where we could have experienced another championship. It would have been so meaningful to watch those guys compete for one more championship. And that was like, My whole thing with the Giannis, you know, and you called me crazy, and I get it where I was like, I just want those guys to get another opportunity. That's basically what I was trying to say is, like, I don't want to break this team up. I just want them to have the opportunity to play another season together. Play, you know, through the end of Jalen's contract, whatever it is. And the Celtics just decided that it just wasn't worth it and that Jalen wasn't as good as. As the 30 of the cap that his. His accolades say that he's worth right under the new cba. So it's just a bummer that it comes down to this. And maybe that was Brad Stevens subtle way of, you know, negotiating with Adam Silver to be like, hey, put this into the next CBA. 25 counts to the cap, but you can give them 35. Win. Win for everybody. Fan bases are happy. You don't have guys like Greg and Will telling Brad Stevens to off and saying, you, Jason Tatum. Which we. Which, you know, I. I still love Jason Tatum. That was.

[Will]

That was the thing that, like, that was purely emotional. Purely.

[Greg Menakis]

I mean, it was the five stages of grief, right? That's what it is. Like, that was my anger. I just, like, refused to accept it. I was blaming people. I said, you, Jason Tatum, you, Brad Stevens. I was just mad because, like, this trade really made me dislike Jason Tatum for a few days because he didn't say anything publicly. He didn't come out and support his teammate. That silence, you know, means he was complicit. And, you know, I. I still feel that way to some degree, but, you

[Will]

know, I wasn't as vocal as you in the. The You, Jason Tatum department. But, like, I was with you that I. I do think there's a level of accountability as a team's best player and as a guy that's on the same timeline as Jalen Brown. Like, the guys came up together. So I think it gets a little bit weird if it was, like, I'm trying to think of a good example in the league right now if it was Tyrese Max, he's speaking out about Joel Embiid. Like, sometimes that's a little bit weird with that age difference and whatever, and it gets, you know, a little. A little messier. But, like, I. I do still think with Jason Tatum, like, you know, his leadership has always been a little bit of a question. Again, it. I think we've defended it as, like, he leads by example. He's just. Everybody leads in different ways. And I do, and I've said it before, I do think that's true and I don't have much of an issue, but I do think there are certain moments, certain times where you have to break your own mold. I thought this was kind of one of those times where Tatum should have kind of gone somewhere, whether it's on his Instagram, whether it's on a podcast. I don't care. Somewhere. And just been on what just call Brad Stevens.

[Odoo Announcer]

Just.

[Will]

Yeah, yeah, something right. To, to, to be vocal about it. But yeah, but I can't put this, you know, on his, you know, at his feed. And you know, there's a comment here in the chat. It still just doesn't add up from. NGC 1986. And I agree. I think that's, that's the overwhelming feeling that I have is that this still, no matter what Brad said, no matter what Bill attempted to say, like, it, it still just doesn't add up from a timing and a value standpoint. Like, like there's just gaps. There's just gaps. And actually, did you listen to Chris or maybe you saw the Chris Manix quote that went out there?

[Greg Menakis]

No.

[Will]

So he was on the Rosillo pod and he talked about how he talked to, you know, again, another anonymous sources. I don't know what else to do. This is there. We live in an anonymous source world. But it was a, I don't know if it was a GM or a high ranking official of a team that was making an offer on Jalen Brown. And the interesting note that he came back with was two things from this particular individual. One, he thought their offer as is was better than what the Celtics took. And number two, he said that we were fully ready to up our offer. We just didn't anticipate that it would. We thought it was going to go on for longer because the Celtics came out so hot like we need four first round picks. So they were like, all right, well let's bring this down. And then they were ready to kind of play the process out and get to a higher. But he said they were 100 ready to make a bigger offer. Couldn't believe that the Celtics took what they did and that even their low ball offer he thought was better than what they got. So like when you hear that, that's so disheartening when you're saying that we think this was the best that we're gonna do. Now granted that's one team, one source after the fact, but it's kind of the general feeling of why not wait like it sums it all up perfectly.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah, no, I hear you, man. And that just to me is more Brad Stevens making mistakes here, not re canvassing the league one more time, which seemingly he didn't do. If Chris Mannix is correct in saying that like hey, we're about to do this deal with the Sixers. Here's what they're offering or like we're about to do this deals deal with the Sixers. Not going to tell you their offer. Are you ready to up your offer? Right. Just like throwing out a message like that seeming seems like that didn't happen. I do want to go to some of the chat here will just to close out the show. Ray Dogs here says the 28 draft pick is worthless. Clippers and Sixers will be good reasoning. Matheran Garland their pick this year. They are moving quickly to be good. Just signed Rui Ballmer. Doesn't play to lose. I don't know if that's a good team. Yeah, I mean Garland, Keaton, Wagler, Rui Hachimura and Brooke Lopez seemingly is their, their starting five right now.

[Will]

Brandon Ingram's on there too.

[Greg Menakis]

Brandon Ingram, Yeah. It's like, okay, but is that enough to get you into the top six in the West? Because if you're seven and below right with the new draft odds, that's when you, if you're, if you're in the play in, you still have a good chance of getting the number one.

[Will]

Ideally you want to be four to 10. You want them to be four to 10. That's all you care about is are they going to be 4 to 10? That's the sweet spot for this pick having the most amount of value that it can possibly have, meaning it can end up at the top of the lottery.

[Greg Menakis]

Okay.

[Will]

And I think it's a pretty fair bet. I, I, I, I, I do think an underrated point that, that Radog makes here to give him credit. Ballmer's got money and if he does find an avenue that he can go do something that is not possible right now, he's acquired.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah, well, they could have just traded for Jalen Brown. They didn't do it.

[Will]

Yeah, that's fair. That's a great counterpoint to it. They could have gone, they went for

[Greg Menakis]

Brandon Ingram instead of Jalen Brown. So is Steve Ballmer really willing to spend the money?

[Will]

I think ultimately yes. But I see your point. Yes, your point is extremely valid. And ultimately I, I think for the Clippers to buy next season, which is when this draft pick is going to convey or the regular season will take place. I think it's a pretty fair bet. Unless there's some unforeseen. Keaton Wagler is all of a sudden just. Holy. He became, you know, I've seen Shade, Light or like Shay, he moves a little bit. Like all of a sudden he's actually Shay real quick. Like, yeah, that changes stuff. But Garland gets hurt all the time. Brandon Ingram's hurt all the time, and I think he's overrated. The rest of the guys are all just role players that if those guys aren't there, don't really add up to enough to really do anything. So I, I think that it's a. It's a fair point, but I, I think that. I think the 28 pick has a chance to be pretty valuable, actually. Enough to trade Jalen Brown? No, but enough to. To be valuable. I, I think that's. I mean, that's.

[Greg Menakis]

I mean, if it ends up being the number one pick, right. Let's just give Brad Stevens the benefit of the doubt. It ends up the number one pick.

[Will]

Clippers get the top four because that's, that's the lie. Let's just say it's top four.

[Greg Menakis]

Okay. Top four. If they get a top four pick. The 2028 draft is supposedly. I, I haven't done the research. I just. This is all just me hearing people say the 2028 draft is the draft you want to be in compared to anytime.

[Will]

We're not draft guys. We don't know. Yeah.

[Greg Menakis]

So, like, would you have traded Jalen Brown for, let's just say, one of the top four picks in this year's draft, straight up, contracts be damned, money be damned. Would you have traded Jalen Brown for Cam Boozer, Caleb Wilson, Darren Peterson, or AJ Devonza?

[Will]

The answer is. I mean, again, you said contracts be damned, so that's tough to answer because it's. Okay.

[Greg Menakis]

Anthony Davis plus AJ Debancer. Would you have done that for Jalen Brown?

[Will]

Yeah, I mean, you, you would have to. Like, it's.

[Greg Menakis]

You.

[Will]

You would have to. Given. Given the ceiling of it. Right. Given the ceiling of. Of A.J. deBance. And now the caveat to that is, again, because we don't really know much about 28 draft. I have no idea if that draft. This is supposed to be a potentially pretty historic draft class. So that's it. I think it's an easier. And even though we haven't seen those guys play yet, that's an easier. Yes. Right now with how highly we see all four of those top guys viewed when we get to 28, if it's the Zach Richache draft, and even though Steph Castle worked out great, like people didn't know that that was going to be the case. Like, the answer is a big fat no if it's that draft class, you know, so it's, it's tough to say exactly. But in that scenario, if it was, if it, if in two years it's supposed to be a similar top of the draft that's like this year, then it's a, it's a worthy gamble. Right? Like it becomes a much more worthy gamble. And I do think that Brad and this team drafting, and I know obviously, like Ange is the one that drafted JB JT Smart in the top of the draft and Brad has not had a crack at the top of the draft. But I think Brad's done pretty well at the back end of the draft where we've been, whether it's second round. You know, time will tell a little bit on this because we didn't draft for two or three years at the beginning with Brad. But you know what we're getting and this year is going to put it to the test because we're banking on depth is all the guys that he's drafted. It's Baylor Shireman, it's Ugo Gonzalez, it's, you know, Jordan Walsh. We'll see if, if Chris Sanak's gonna be in that mix. Probably not this year, but it's guys that are, are part of that eye for talent, which is what's going to make the difference in that 2028 pick. So it, it is a good asset. It's, it's just not enough for Jalen Brown. And it still doesn't add up after all this, Greg. That's, that's the ultimate, ultimate fact about it.

[Greg Menakis]

Can we give some quick love to Nimi Keda?

[Will]

I was gonna say that. Yeah. That's exactly where I wanted to go to end this podcast because that's a good news. That's the good news here. So while it's still extremely frustrating with the Celtics front office and listen, Greg and I probably won't be in the building for preseason in the first opening night game, but if you guys want to boo Brad Stevens and Bill Chisholm, you've got my approval. You've got a stamp of approval to boo the out of them. I'm all for it, But Nimi Keter, four years, 56 million, they get the extension done. Nimi Keda in Boston now tied for the next five years. I believe his deal is still like 2.6 or something around that for this year. Then the extension for four years kicks in. I love this deal, Greg. I mean we kind of knew something. We kind of nailed it a little bit. As to what we thought this deal was going to be. I think we said between 11 and 14, so a little bit more on the, on the high side right around that Mark Williams deal, which I said keep an eye on. That's kind of the market that, that we're going to look at. And between him and Mitchell Robinson, you know, this year the two of them are going to be 17-point-something million dollars. And then going into next year they hit right around that 29, 30 mark. You look at what again, I'll reiterate what Kessler is going to get, what Clingan's going to get, what Jaren Jackson Jr gets like the. Unless you're one of those top six, seven maybe, maybe that's even too many of those top centers. I'm all about having the, the depth there. So I absolutely love getting Neemi on this number. Combining that with Mitchell Robinson, I think despite the Jalen Brown's going to make this a pretty tough off season to grade so far. That's a big win in the front court with, with those guys given the limited resources to, to upgrade.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah. And it makes a lot of sense with you know, what they're trying to build in terms of sustainable future in terms of roster flexibility and just like contract slots. Right. Where if you're looking at trading for somebody with the Paul George expiring next year, let's just say we keep this team together and we have Paul George and everybody else on the roster going into next year. At the beginning of this season you'll have Nimi Cada, who's making double digits, Sam Houser's making double digits, Mitchell Robinson's make a double digits, Derrick White is making 30 plus Peyton Pritchard's making close to 10. He'll probably get, you know, more money on his next contract but like you have more contracts that are tradable versus a bunch of guys that are on like 2 to 5 million dollar deals which are tough to bring together to aggregate into a trade machine.

[Will]

Lets you put five contracts together for one guy but in reality that's not happening most of the time.

[Greg Menakis]

Yeah, absolutely. So shout out to Nimikeda. He played great this season. I still maintain Mitchell Robinson should start at center. Go listen to a podcast three podcasts ago where we tried to, you know, talk about Mitchell Robinson not knowing that Jalen Brown was. Was the Jalen Brown news was about to happen. We said a bunch of things that make us look dumb at this point. Well, me, I said a bunch of things that make me look dumb. But that's okay.

[Will]

There's a great three minute clip in there that we should take out that was just immediately.

[Greg Menakis]

No, you gotta leave it in there, man.

[Will]

That's like not to take out. To just highlight how wrong.

[Greg Menakis]

Oh yeah, the clip.

[Will]

It's almost like the. What is it? The spongebob thing like before and after or like six minutes later or whatever the thing is.

[Greg Menakis]

It's exactly what it should have been.

[Will]

Yeah, that's. That's where it's at. But Dimikeda, good work by the front office. Jalen Brown, very, very bad work by the front office. In Time will tell. Time will tell. But you know, last thing I'll say here. Great. Before we sign off, it seems like Paul George would be on the team. Team unless something shifts. And again, one thing I did think about where Brad was, was kind of pushing back on. Like I don't know what comes next or not. I'm pushing back but just acknowledging I don't know what comes next. Look, the Drew Holiday thing happened very, very late in the off season. Right. So it's. It doesn't mean that things are gonna definitively because there's so much time between now and the start of the season. But as of right now, the plan is it looks like Paul George will probably be your star and small forward power forward.

[Greg Menakis]

And also there's a note. I think it's from Keith. He said that Paul George's contract cannot be aggregated with another salary for 60 days. Right. So maybe they're just waiting for that 60 day window to be up and then they're going to recanvas the league to see if they can go out and get something else.

[Will]

Do something. Yeah, yeah. So that would put us at what, September 6, roughly. It's kind of the date that we're. We're looking at there to see if they, if they would aggregate it with another contract to go again. Try to do that Russian doll contract dip. Try to get a little bit lower. If there's a way to do it, we'll see. Things can change. But for now, Jalen Brown's A6 or Paul George is a Celtic and yeah, that's the way it is. We're not satisfied. We're still confused. Doesn't all add up. I will say there's Jalen Brown's doing a pop up in the city. I saw Green runs Deep put it out there. I retweeted it earlier. I'm just gonna pull it up real here.

[Greg Menakis]

3 p. I gotta hear 3pm to 8pm 110 Canal Street, Boston.

[Will]

So right across from the Garden. Go be loud. Like, I, I, I really, if I was in Boston 100, I'd be taking time off of work to go there. This is kind of like, let's make it one real last big celebration. He's gonna get a tribute video at the game and you know, we're gonna do this and that, but like, like this is the, that doesn't show up in all this analytics. Right? Like being out in the community, being a part of it. And so I, I hope this place is packed. I hope there's a capacity limit. I hope fire department gets called and I hope people, you know, it's right across your Matita Garden. So I hope people make it real loud and known just how unhappy they are about this trade and they show love and support for Jalen Brown. So that's the last thing that I got to say on this. Greg, any, any last thoughts before we, we sign off on this one?

[Greg Menakis]

Nah.

[Edward Jones Announcer]

Nah.

[Odoo Announcer]

Still sad.

[Will]

Still sad. Still sad. Still trying to figure it out. Still going through the emotion. Sorry, Jason Tatum. Big year coming up, man. Big year. We got you.

[Greg Menakis]

I guess Conor McGregor's back this weekend.

[Will]

Yeah. All right, that's gonna do it for this episode of Green with Envy. Appreciate you guys for all joining in with us here. We'll be back probably either later this week or next weekend at Green Envy Pod. Follow along with with your boys. We'll catch you guys later. Peace.

[Angie Hicks]

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