← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Tatum's Recovery, Horford to the Warriors, and Media Day Optimism
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- [00:01]
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- [01:16]
Will
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- [01:45]
Greg
This is Mike Gorman and you're listening.
- [01:47]
Will
To Green with Envy with Will and Greg. All right everybody. It is media day. We have made it to the other side. This officially kicks off the 2025, 2026 Boston Celtics season. It is time to get back into sicko mode. We actually have real things to talk about. So no more wasting time. You guys know the deal. This is Green with Envy. Let's lock in. What up, what up, what up? Welcome into another season of Green with Envy. It is officially the 2025, 2026 NBA basketball season. We're back, baby. We're only behind mics at this point, but hey, that's all we do here anyway. That's our only contribution to this team, to this season. But starting tomorrow, they'll be back on the court. And that means just around the corner, actual NBA basketball. And as always, this is your boy, Will. We're checking in. How you doing? How you Living, reporting for duty. Year six, Year five, fully year five. I think technically year six of us covering it. That's. That's crazy to think about. And as always, joining me, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Manakis. Greg, officially year full five, fully year five. For us doing this, it's pretty impressive that we're just still doing it. I don't know what that means, but it's kind of like, what is the. What's. What's the Zoolander quote where it's like, I can't remember who it is. I think I really like. Yeah, no, I don't really know his music, but just the fact that he's making it, I really respect that. That's us.
- [03:35]
Greg
I love it. And we finally got the update that all Celtics fans have been waiting for all summer. We've been waiting. And we finally got Kristaps Porzingis to confirm he still doesn't know what was wrong with him during the playoffs last year.
- [03:51]
Will
Someone has to know. I'm sorry. They're just like, somebody has to know. Like, it just, it just doesn't make sense. It's. You know, we got to put that in the rear view.
- [04:00]
Greg
It's 2025, 2026. I just wanted to make one final KP joke before we move on to the new season.
- [04:06]
Will
He's part of the opposition, so we'll get around to it. Kp, if he's healthy, we'll be back in Boston. We'll have plenty. Wolf and the Hawks could be pretty entertaining and pretty good, so I'm sure we might even touch on them later in this podcast. So here's the plan for today. We've got a couple actual topics to get through, so we're going to hit on some Jason Tatum news. We've got Al Horford to talk about. Of course. We're going to get you our favorite parts of media day, and then we're going to be doing this. As we lead up to the season, we're going to start ramping up here, probably about two episodes per week starting this week or next week as we start to get into actual games coming here in the next couple of days, next couple of weeks or week and a half, really. And we want to highlight interesting players, interesting teams, so we're going to kind of combine those two each episode. Oh, and I missed, of course, bingo. Bi N G O I got bingo.
- [04:54]
Greg
Did you.
- [04:54]
Will
Did you get the clip I sent you, Greg, of Troy Brown?
- [04:56]
Greg
I did, yeah. I remembered it once I watched it.
- [04:58]
Will
Okay. I. I knew you had to know. When you said you didn't know it, I was like, this is not going to be a good podcast. Content to be like, come on, man, you know it. And you just keep pressing somebody on something. It's like, unless we're gonna sit here and watch it, you're not gonna prove it to me. But I knew, next time, let's just.
- [05:13]
Greg
Watch it on air.
- [05:14]
Will
That's fair. That's fair. But you never know. Sometimes when you're looking stuff up and you're like, ah, I gotta wave through this commercials, whatever it is, what it is. Bingo. I got bingo. We win again. Troy Brown. We're going to check in with our preseason bingo as we already got a couple of squares gone. At least two, maybe a third. We'll see. We're going to pull Alex on stage here. Shout out to Alex, the producer in the. In the background right now. He's going to pop on with us here, go over our bingo board, get you guys the updates. But, Greg, let's get started here. Jason Tatum. This is one of our bingo squares that got crossed off before we even really finished the podcast. Basically, Jason Tatum went on approximately 1725 television shows in one day last week. It was, I think, a world record. Guinness has not confirmed this yet, but it might be a world record for the amount of appearances one person can do in one day and talked a lot about his process. And throughout that, you know, we got a lot of notes from some Twitter doctors, some of the doctors that, you know, were a part of the surgery that he got in New York. And then we got the cherry on top, the Jason Tatum workout video that. Listen, I try not to get too excited, but it was hard not to get excited seeing Jason Tatum back on the court.
- [06:30]
Greg
Dude, that video, I mean, it looks like he's moving 75 to 80%, maybe more like. I don't. I don't want to undersell how good he's moving in that video. It. One part of me was like, is this like the Mike Tyson footage before the Jake Paul fight where it was just, like, quick cuts and it made it look like he was, like, really going hard in the gym, but when you really dig behind the scenes, he was actually only able to throw three punches at a time and that's how they had to cut it? Or is Jason Tatum, like, actually making those steps? And then when you read, you know, the stuff that the doctors are saying, KD tweeting about it saying that the recovery is insane, it's it seems like he's multiple months ahead of schedule in terms of what he's able to do on a basketball court. And you hear, you know, the. The quote from the doctor that there. When you have an Achilles tier, there's always worry about loss of strength in that calf. And apparently, Jason Tatum has the world's strongest Cavs, and he's got a new nickname to go along with it. Wolverine. How are we feeling about the Wolverine nickname?
- [07:34]
Will
It's pretty great. And, you know, I know today in media day, he showed up in cornrows, which I'm not my favorite. JT Love. Just being honest. I just don't. I just don't think it.
- [07:41]
Greg
He looks pretty good, man.
- [07:43]
Will
I don't know, man. I don't think. I don't think it suits him, but that doesn't really matter. I think, though, when he does have, like, the. The real curly locks going, you know, how Wolverine kind of has, like, the curls on the side here, like, he could actually pull that look off. Right? Like, if he was gonna go for, like, the all. I mean, he probably shouldn't do this on a regular basis, but, like, if he's gonna show up for, like, Halloween, he could actually.
- [08:02]
Greg
I was gonna say Halloween's a month away. He could definitely lean into that and.
- [08:05]
Will
Go, I. I like the Wolverine nickname. The video, you know, the way you laid it out, I can't help but be skeptical and think it's closer to the former than it is the latter. But then again, you know, I mean, I heard. I was listening to Damien, the little. Was talking a little bit today, and of course, they're at very different parts of their career, so it's very. Even though they have similar injuries, it's very hard to say that, you know, apples to apples here, right? But Damien's just, like, laughing at, like. And also, he's now back in Portland, where they don't really have anything to play for, and he's like, yeah, I'm not. I'm not coming back this year. Like, I'm just putting it out there right now and, you know, feels like it. Also, Kyrie Irving's dealing with an injury that was earlier that's also similar. And, like, Jason Kidd today was kind of being like, all right, let's chill out on. He's, like, in great shape, recovering. Like, he's doing well, but, like, you know, trying to ease off the pressure of coming back. And that injury was a few months before Tatum or at least few weeks, but. Right. Right. It's a little bit different, but still time timelines are relatively similar. So I don't know, man. Like, I listen, it's exciting to see Jason Tatum. I would much rather watch a Celtics team that has Jason Tatum out there. But I was thinking about this, so, so take a walk with me here on this, on this hypothetical. Okay, let's just say Celtics, you know, ended up, still ended up losing to the Knicks in the second round six, seven games. But Tatum never gets hurt. And we're living in a world where they still made all of the exact same decisions and we ended up in the same place that we are today, which I think is potentially a real possibility. Even if Tatum was healthy and they lost, might have made a few different changes, but let's just say we end up where we are today. So Tatum is healthy today, he's playing on this team. This same roster exists. How much does that change where you think they are? Let's just keep it to the Eastern Conference for now. How much does that, that change where you think they are with this roster and a healthy Jason Tatum?
- [09:57]
Greg
I mean, I don't want to live in a world where we have to like do that hypothetical. I'd rather just move forward, fast forward to Jason Tatum comes back later in the year. Does this team have a chance? Because I, the, the question is, is the same, right? It's like does is the supporting cast.
- [10:13]
Will
Well, let me make one cabinet that the only difference to that would be, well, we have to just add in they have a good record or they have a decent record at that time. Because if he comes, because if it's, if he's coming back, it's a cool, he can come back in February. But they're 15 games below.500. Like then it doesn't matter. But right. If they're 12 to 15, 12 games.
- [10:33]
Greg
Over five, I got you. The whole, the whole point is, is the roster good enough for them to compete with the healthy Jason Tatum? Right. I, I still look at the front court as a huge hole, right? The, the one thing, you know, with the Al Horford having just signed with the warriors, that was announced yesterday. Al Horford signs a multi year deal with the Golden State Warriors. Brad, even at media day today, even said, hey, we made an offer to Al, Al chose not to resign here. The bigger question to me is would Al Horford have resigned if he knew Jason Tatum was going to be healthy? Right, Right. And that was the one thing that went through my mind was when Jason Tatum put out these videos, was that a last ditch effort to get Al Horford to reconsider and, like, reneg on his deal with the warriors and come play in Boston. Because that's kind of what I was thinking. It's like, to your question, the Celtics don't have the front court necessary to be a contender this year. They have to make some sort of move in the front court. Unless Nemi Escada decides to become, like, the player that nobody thought he could be or Luca Garza does, does something similar, right? Like, there is no world in which the Celtics have a decent front court this year. Jason Tatum added to that front court makes it a little bit more, you know, palatable just because he can play the four. Right. And maybe you even see some experimentation with Tatum at the 5, and we go really small and like, all that type of stuff. But regardless, to answer your question, it doesn't mean the Celtics are contender this year with the healthy Jason Tatum, because the front court.
- [12:03]
Will
Yeah, and that's, that's exactly where I was getting to. And the point you alluded to with, with Al Horford, like, that's why I set up the, the scenario the way I did, because I do think if they lose to the Knicks and Jason Tatum walks away healthy, I think, you know, and, and, and Brad Stevens even said it, right? Like, we show, like, we offered Al, we tried to keep Al, we tried to keep Luke. But they, look, they know the books. They, they understand, like, where we're at with, like, the second apron. Like, we weren't going to be able to get to where the warriors got to where the, the spurs got to. We can offer, we can offer everything that we can, but, like, we had limitations. And especially with Tatum being there. And I, I, I think this is, I think, I don't know. If Tatum were healthy, they would have probably still had to make the KP and Drew moves, but I think the Luke and Al, they would have probably fought a little bit harder to get really creative. And even if you're one injury away, like, you still would have felt like, hey, we have Luke and Al. We just got to get them healthy to the end of the season. Kada can certainly be the third big, right? We wouldn't, we wouldn't feel bad about that. And then you add a few minimums, and then I think that's a different, it's a different story. But that's kind of my, my hesitancy to get too excited about a Tatum return is just the holes in the front court are. I'm gonna be shocked if they're not gaping, right? Like, and you look at the teams ahead of them, like the Cavs with Allen and Mobley. You look at the Knicks with. With Townes and Robinson, and, sure, go. Go ahead and tell me you're not scared of them. That's fine. You know, look at Giannis. You're obviously going to be, you know, terrified of him. But, like, those are. Those are real. Those are real front courts. Like, our front court is not a real front court. And so that's where I. You know, like I said, again, I get hesitant about getting excited for Tatum coming back, because, selfishly, I just want to watch Jason Tatum play basketball. It's much better time. But in the long run, I still think despite all of these great reports, him sitting out, I think, is still probably the best idea. Again, not a doctor, but I still think that's the best. Best plan.
- [14:05]
Greg
Yeah, I think if he's healthy, it's gonna. The Celtics are gonna leave it up to Tatum. I think they have that trust in him, and they see the hard work that he does behind the scenes that we only get the. The highlights of. You know, they see him, all the reports. Jason Tatum has been in the facility every single day, rehabbing, like, three times a day, and he's just f. You know, I think today is the day, or tomorrow's a day where it's five months out from the injury, and he's already way ahead of schedule. He's working towards something. He said he wants to come back this season. He said today, I'm not putting myself to come back this season, but it's basically his intention to come back this season. We got a comment in the chat here from Drew Bergenholtz. He says, I can't stand the KP haters. I really don't love how Al left. Love him, but that's kind of going to Golden State. Will, what do you. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think Al Horford going to Golden State is akin to Johnny Damon going to the Yankees or Jacobe Alsbury going to the Yankees? Something like that?
- [15:03]
Will
Absolutely not. Like, I just couldn't disagree more. Like, I. I don't feel that way whatsoever. I mean, what was. Al at this point has limited time left, right? Like, I still wish he went to Denver. I think that. I don't even know if that was ever a conversation. I think him going to Denver would have been unreal for him to be Jokic's backup. Like, that just seems like a perfect fit. I think Golden State, where it's basically the retirement home, it's like, it's like the best in class retirement home in the NBA with Steph and Jimmy and Draymond. Like, I think that's kind of fun. Like, I, you know, I wish they had probably more of a chance, but, I mean, when they got Jimmy Butler last year, they had a pretty damn good record, right? They were like 22 and 5 or something crazy. So I think them adding Al gives him a chance to play with guys that are of his caliber, of his age. Right? Like, give him a chance. That's all. That's all. I think. I think he's done everything he needs to, to have a chance. Once Tatum went down, that took out all scenarios. Like, if to me, it was either he was going to retire or he was going to go play for a team that has a chance. Chance. And he has. I think he should do that. Like, I don't think that this is Johnny Damon. I don't think this is Ray Allen to the Heat. Like, none of that. Al Horford is one of my favorite Celtics of all time. Just. Yeah, not even a recent, you know, last couple years, but just of all time. So I got nothing but love for Alan. I'm rooting for the Warriors. I got no. No problem with him going to Golden State. How about you?
- [16:27]
Greg
Yeah, I. I didn't feel any certain way about him going to the Warriors. You know, we did lose to them in the Finals a couple years ago, and I know there are some people that don' Like Jimmy Butler. Coming from the Heat, A lot of people don't like Draymond Green. I don't know too many people that dislike Steph Curry. Like, I feel like most people root for Steph Curry just because he's fun. So I. I think for Al, it's just like, when you look at what Draymond Green has been able to establish with Steph Curry, with the chemistry that they've established over the years, Al Horford, at one point in his career, was a better player than Draymond Green. Right? And if. If he looks at Draymond, he's like, I could do that, and I could do that just as well as Draymond. Like, maybe he's always wanted to play with Seth Curry. Maybe it comes down to something as simple as that, is that he's looked at Steph as someone that he could have chemistry with on the court, and he's got two more years left in the NBA, maybe three, maybe one. Who knows how many he has left? But I think I'm okay with him going. The. The thing that I Actually disagree with Drew on is the KP hate. I'm just like, I was ready for KP to leave, man. Like, I. I'm. I was happy with what he contributed to the Celtics. It was really fun to see him in the playoffs last year, sipping his cappuccino, whatever he was sipping before the game, the espressos. But I was just done with the whole experiment. I couldn't. I could not stand how he ended the season last year. I know it wasn't his fault that he had that illness, but it was just like, that was the whole KP experience coming into Boston was like, is he ever going to be healthy? Is he ever going to be available?
- [17:57]
Will
It's the constant unknown of the availability. Right. Good dude. Yeah. No, he seems awesome, and I think he did. He served his purpose, and it was a fun two years. Like, I have no issues with it. Like, I have no issues with kp. Like, it is what it is. It sucks the way it ended. And it's gonna. Not me that. It's just. Everyone's just like, yeah, hands up. I don't know. And then he's in Euro basket, running down the court, full speed, dunking, put backs. And I'm like, dude, where was this two months ago? And it's like, you know, it's. It's frustrating, the unknown, but I got no beef with kp. And, you know, I was thinking, like, I'm sure one of us, whether it's today or another point, we'll talk about the Hawks as one of our interesting team or an interesting player. And, like, I know the Hawks have kind of been trendy in the national spotlight. It's like, hey, they're good. They could be like an Eastern Conference finals team. And I just think if you're relying on, I don't know, like, their best version is going to be with kp, whereas their. Their second best version without KP is going to be dramatically different. I think for the Celtics, their second best version without Kpop was still elite. That, and that was the reason that it could work, is that you could go to another level of elite with kp, and without him, you could still be elite. You're just closer to the pack. Right. Or you're closer to the rest of that tier. So, you know, kp, it is what it is. Al Horford now with the Warriors. Last thing on Al Horford before we then start getting into some quick hits here on media day. I saw her going around. I think Sean Grandy brought it up. Do you think they should retire? Al Horford's number.
- [19:21]
Greg
Good question. He ended up playing how many years in Boston? Seven.
- [19:24]
Will
Seven years. So seven in the last nine he's been in Boston, won a championship, went to two finals, multiple conference finals. You know, I think some. I think I saw somewhere he's got the 11th most playoff wins in Celtics history.
- [19:39]
Greg
I think to kind of agree with Drew here, I think that if he finished his career in Boston, he definitely gets his jersey retired. I kind of think him going to Golden State is putting that at risk. I don't think Al Horford gets his jersey retired.
- [19:57]
Will
Yeah, I don't either. Like, I mean, I. I love. I just said I love Al Horford. I think if I really sit down and think about it, he's probably in my top five Celtics of all time. And I'm just like, my favorite. Not who's the best, but of my favorite. And listen, like, if Ray Allen's not up there, if Rondo's not up there, like, as much as I love Al, those guys in their Celtic careers specifically, I think Ray should be up there. Like, I. I think that's been drawn out because of the way it ended. Like, to your point, I think that probably hurt him from going up there, but I feel like it's very incomplete to have. You know, obviously Paul has a longer standing, but, like, not having the three of them up there feels wrong. And so I don't think even Rondo or Horford. Like, I think Rondo's ahead of him. Horford is probably in that Marcus Smart area where it's like, yeah, we can have a fun conversation. We could make a podcast out of it if we really wanted to. But the easy answer is no. Neither of them belong in the rafters. I think, in my opinion, you just.
- [20:50]
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- [22:37]
Greg
Yeah, and I think especially with the Celtics at this point, right? Like, part of it has to do with how dedicated are you to the franchise. Like, how much do you want to be a Celtic for life? And like the fact that he's leaving for the warriors, like, no, hate to him.
- [22:53]
Will
It's his second time leaving, too.
- [22:54]
Greg
It's your second time? Yeah, second time leaving. And like, kind of leaving us in our time of need. Like, we don't have a center. And he's like, yeah, peace, I'm going to the Warriors. Like, if he stayed and fought through it and Jason Tatum comes back and we somehow win another championship, I think he's probably a definite to get his jersey retired. But if he stays with the Celtics, doesn't win another championship, I still don't think that's a guarantee that he gets his jersey retired. Right. So I think he's making the right decision going to play for the Warriors. One thing I know we're about to transition to media day. Will, I had a question for you about media day related to the Celtics front court. Did you find yourself watching any Xavier Tillman interviews?
- [23:32]
Will
I actually did. It was funny. It's funny you mentioned that. I didn't put him on my notes, but was dealing with baby girl wasn't feeling great today. So I was like in and out of media day being able to like check on some stuff and Xavier Tillman was one of the guys that I did happen to catch. So I did watch a little bit of Xavier Tillman. It wasn't necessarily him at the, like, official mic, but it was him with like the NBC Sports Boston Crew. So like, exactly. Was there something particular that caught your mind that, that asked them, made you ask that or.
- [24:03]
Greg
Yeah, so I, I was actually thinking with media day, right, I had to also given I was working all day and taking care of James because Danielle got a new tattoo today after work. So I was just like, yeah. So I had to like really decide who, who I was going to tune into. So the people that I actually watch content from and interviews were Simons Tillman, Tatum, Jalen Keda, Amari Williams and Jordan Walsh. Because I wanted to see if we could cross anything off the bingo board to some degree. But Jordan Walsh didn't say anything about recommitment to fitness, but Xavier Tillman did. He was the guy that he spent all summer getting back in good shape. He said he lost 12 pounds through diet. He cut out the pizza, he cut out the chicken wings. He's eating a strict diet of like brown rice and chicken or brown rice and salmon. Said he now has a new dad bod and he's still 26 years old. How is Xavier 26 years old?
- [24:58]
Will
Well, so this is the story that I heard. Did you hear his R.J. lewis story?
- [25:02]
Greg
Yes. It's phenomenal. I'll let you tell it. Go ahead.
- [25:04]
Will
Yeah. So Xavier Tillman, the world's oldest 26 year old, who for most of the off season I forgot was on this team. And honestly, when you look at it and everything he said today, this is probably the biggest sway for me of the day, let's say, is that I was like, you know what? I'm kind of believing in Xavier Tillman again. I don't know why. Nothing. There's nothing. He just, he just sounded professional. And I was like, that's what media.
- [25:26]
Greg
Day is all about.
- [25:28]
Will
Yeah. Yeah. It's either you sound cool, you have a good sound bite, or you're like, that guy gets it right. And you're just like. And I'm like, you know what? When I got excited for us trading for Xavier Tillman back when I was like, he was a really good like fill in backup center in, in Memphis. And like he filled in, in a, you know, in a Laker series and went toe to toe with AD and like did okay. Like, that's the guy that, that' that I believe in, that is all of a sudden gonna be a main rotation big that between him, Kada Garza. You know what? Maybe that first conversation was incorrect. Maybe Jason Tim should come back because Xavier Tillman's the reason that Jason should come back.
- [26:02]
Greg
But Al Horford left And Tillman even said, yeah, like, I get confused when I watch tape. I don't know who it is until someone.
- [26:08]
Will
Did Horford actually leave? Maybe that's the question. Did Horford actually leave? Who knows?
- [26:11]
Greg
That was the thing when we first got Tillman. We said, hey, is this Al Horford's replacement? Right. That was the whole thing when we first saw him. So, you know, with. When we think about the Celtics front court, he's the name like you, like. I kind of just wrote him off as he's washed at 25 years old, now 26 years old, and he's still young. And he says that, you know, this another interesting part of his interview, he described the Celtics playing at warp speed, which is something I want to talk about. So with Tim, real quick, let me.
- [26:39]
Will
Tell the R.J. lewis story.
- [26:40]
Greg
Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
- [26:41]
Will
Yeah, just. No, no, sorry. I. I set us off on a tangent, but. So Tillman has been working out, working on his body, getting into shape. Celtics can play at warp speeds. That he's trying to be in his best fitness. You know, all the Celtics new guys seem to have been around the team now for a little bit. You saw the, you know, group outing to the Patriots game led by Jaylen Brown. I think that's really cool. I like that. That's a very positive sign, kind of making that culture, which was a big part of. Of the media day today, talking about the culture of the Celtics, the leadership. And so Tillman talked about how he was, I think, in the ice bath, RJ Lewis comes up, and he comes up and he's like, hey, man, what's up, G? Hey, how old are you? And then Tillman said, when I told him 26, this man jumped back across the room. And then RJ Lewis, who is a rookie, but is an old rookie, I think D Go was like, isn't he 23? So they're three years apart, but even guys that are, you know, pretty close to, like, they're. They could have theoretically played against each other in high school. Like, the way that all these guys play aau, there's a very good chance that that could have been an actual game that happened. And so it's not just us, the fans, the commentators, whatever you want to say that forget how old or how young Xavier Tillman is. Even his teammates don't know what his age or can't believe that he's only 26.
- [27:58]
Greg
It's crazy. And I. I kind of forgot when I made the prediction that Jordan Walsh was going to come in and say that he's in the best shape of his life. He took, you know, the summer very seriously and wanted to, you know, earn his spot this year. I kind of forgot that Tillman was like a pretty strong candidate for that because this is a huge opportunity for him. Last year of his contract, he's in, he's in a contract year, he's 26. Like he need. He's either gonna play himself into another contract or play himself out of the league, right? That's where Tillman is right now in his career. So I'm excited to see what X can bring.
- [28:32]
Will
Yeah, X gonna give it to you. All right, let's hit some other notes here. I have a few things, but let's go here because you mentioned the warp speed, right? That was, that was part of, I think Tillman said, I think a few other guys might have said this as well. Just that the tempo that Joe has been preaching and it makes a lot of sense when you think about it, right? With not Tatum, you have to try to play some form of advantage basketball, which has really been what Missoula ball is about. It's about advantages. It's not necessarily one thing or the other. It's finding the advantages wherever you can, whenever you can. And so you said you had a couple thoughts about warp speed basketball. Tell me what, what came to your mind?
- [29:08]
Greg
Well, this is just something that I was really thinking about going back to two playoffs ago when the Pacers gave the Celtics their hard series on the road to Banner 18, right. Where every game was super highly contested. We had such a hard time containing TJ McConnell, the different levels of pick and rolls that they were setting, the, the amount of times they were just, you know, getting secondary transition buckets. And I was wondering if that would influence the rest of the league similar to how the three point revolution that was started by the Golden State warriors spread throughout the league and like the spread pick and roll offense and all that stuff, right? So I was, I was just thinking like, what are the Celtics going to be able to do this year to make up for the fact that Jason Tatum, their best on ball player, is not there. And one thing that I was just wondering was how much are they going to play at an up tempo speed a la Indiana Pacers? Because if you look just like player for player with the Pacers, even without Jason Tatum, right? Like the Pacers aren't that much more talented than the Celtics, if at all. You know, I mean like I take Peyton Pritchard over T.J. mcConnell, I take Derrick White over, over Nemhard. I take Jalen Brown over Siakam. You know what I mean? Like, there's all. I take Simons over Matherin. Like, there's all these guys that are on the Pacers. When that. When you think about the Pacers vs. Celtics coming into the season, I don't know about you, but I feel like more people are higher on the Pacers just because of their identity and their ability to play a certain style versus where they are with the Celtics without a front court, without Jason Tatum. So I'm really interested to see how that translates onto. Onto the court. And can the Celtics unlock some level of warp speed as. As was mentioned in a lot of the press conferences?
- [30:59]
Will
Yeah, I mean, I. I don't really know what else they would do. Right. Because if this team slows it down and tries to play methodically, like, I don't see them having much of a chance. Right, Right. So I think it needs to be a combination of what we've seen from Missoula teams in the past, which is going to be. Of course, they're going to still shoot a lot of. But I think it needs to be, like. It needs to look different. Like, I. Like, I saw someone tweet this earlier where. You know, with Tatum, that's part of his superpower is his malleability. Where. Cool. We're gonna get up and down for a little bit. All right, word. Let's rock. Oh, you want to slow it down? You want me to kind of control tempo and, like, survey everything. Cool. We can do that, too. Like, and he can do a little bit in between of, like, have different styles. Right. Like. Like, that's Tatum's superpowers, being able to do a little bit of everything. And so without that, I think you have to have a str. Your identity can't be malleability because that. That's. That. That only applies when you have guys like Jason Tatum. So you need to kind of force your identity when you're out there. And I don't mean force it in the way that it's not working. You just do it over and over again. But you have to. You have to establish who you are as a team. For this version to work, for this version to have whatever that version of success looks like, they're going to have to have a pretty strong identity. And I think this makes sense because they got. You know, they got younger, right? They got younger. They got faster. You're talking about Tailman being. In. Trying to get into this best shape of his life. He's you know, a year and a half now after, after knee surgery, you know, you bring in younger guys like Luga Garza, Josh Minot we're talking about. Is he going to catch a body? He's athletic. Hugo Gonzalez, same thing. He's athletic. Baylor Shireman's kind of got that grittiness to him, so he's going to want to get up and down. He's gonna. So I, I think it just kind of fits the roster you have. And this is where like the Missoula questions for me I think are going to be really fascinating to see. Okay, cool. What you wanted to do worked really well. When you have a top 2, 3 roster in the NBA, you don't have that anymore. You're middle to the bottom somewhere. What are you going to do? Like, how are you going. You can't play the same. So what's going to be different? If this is it, you know, I'm excited to see it. I don't know if it's going to work, but I think it makes sense to lean into this direction and you're going to be more of an offensive team than a defensive team, I think just given your personnel right now. So I think that up tempo sty style is going to lean more that way, which is what they're going to have to do.
- [33:18]
Greg
Yeah. And this brings me to Anthony Simons, who is a guy that I really wanted to watch his interview. I never really heard him speak before, to be honest with you. Like I, I've watched Anthony Simons play ball. I was been interested in Anthony Simon's dating back to his early days in Portland where he was like. And there were reports about him being untouchable when he was a young, a young guy who was like only participating in dunk contests. Right. Where they were looking at him as the successor to Dame Lillard. They said he was untouchable. There was all these. Anytime there was a broadcast Anthony Simons, his name came up as like a young guy to watch. Right? Like, oh, we're really excited about Simons. We're really excited about Simons. And I've kind of kept an eye on him over the years. But because. And he even alluded to this in his interview because Portland has not been relevant in a few years. He's kind of been playing in basketball obscurity. Right. And he feels like he has developed to a point where, where he's now underappreciated as a basketball player because the Trailblazers didn't matter. Dame Lillard left. Left them the last two years, nobody was watching Trailblazers games. They're one of the worst teams in basketball. And when he comes into this Celtics team, he was excited to be part of an organization with a winning culture and with high, high expectations, which is something Brad Stevens alluded to in his press conference. He said, no one's putting a ceiling on this team. Joe Missoula is definitely not putting a ceiling on this team. But when you. When Missoula looks around and as that, he doesn't have Kirstaps Horsing because he doesn't have Al Horford, he doesn't have Drew Holiday, he doesn't have Luke Cornett, he doesn't have all these guys that he previously relied upon, including Jason Tatum. Now he's got to figure out, okay, here's the roster that I was dealt. Here's the strengths of every single person on this team. What type of identity was going to lead to sustained success for this, this team. And I think Anthony Simons is one of those guys. If they're playing an uptemple style, don't know if he's going to be the starting point guard, if he's coming off the bench, if they're going to go super small with the starting lineup with him, Derrick White, Peyton Pritchard, Jalen Brown and Xavier Tillman, or whoever it's going to be. We don't know what the starting lineup is going to be. But I think Anthony Simons could play a really big role for this team if they're trying to get up and down. Because, you know, there's one thing that Anthony Simons can do. He can transition both, you know, both ends of the court. He can get up and down the court, and he can really score the ball.
- [35:36]
Will
Yeah, when. When we were talking about warp speed, he's the guy that popped in my mind, right? I'm like, this is part of. And he's one of your three best players. Four best players. However you want to dice it up. So it makes sense that as the new guy, like, that is where the line starts to shift of how we're gonna play, like, all of a sudden. Our fourth best guy used to be Drew Holiday, was one of the best defenders in the entire world. And now it's kind of shifted to Anthony Simons, who's young, athletic, gets up and down, can score. The basketball is athletic. We need to be able to use that on both sides. So let's start how we play. So I think it fits him very well. They did touch on a little bit between him and Pritchard. And I think Missoula kind of got out in front of it and was like, I know you guys are already going to like, connect this together, like Simons or Pritchard. And, you know, I don't think anything, at least that I saw was said definitively of like, one guy's the starter, one guy's not. In fact, it kind of just seemed like, yeah, well, one, one day it might be Pritchard, one day it might be Simons. Like, so you could expect that maybe at least the beginning of the year, you're seeing both of them kind of switch off. And both, both of them said all the right things for me. Media day, right? Like, nobody set off any red flags. Like, oh God, this could be a headache. Like, they're like, I will be the starter. I am the starter. You know, there was none of that. It was all just for the team. An interesting Simon's quote that I did see. I didn't hear this. This was off. Corrales tweeted this one. It's just a matter of, in regards to playing defense, just a matter of if I want to do it or not. It's really that simple. I hope he plays it. I hope, I hope he, I, I hope he goes for it, man. I just, I really hope you go for it, Anthony. That would be, that would be really great for your time in Bost. You just go for it. And then Joe, on that same note, I think had a quote that was something like, you're not as bad as people think you are. Right? So Joe already being like, get that out of your head. So I, I think that's actually something we're going to get to like interesting players on other teams around the league. I think Simons might be the most interesting guy to me on this team because of all the things you laid out hand up. Wasn't watching Portland the last two years when they're in, you know, west coast teams that are insignificant, they're easy write offs. Or me like this year, the Kings not watching Jazz, not watching Blazers. I'm a little intrigued by the Blazers. I might give them a shot. We'll see where they, how they.
- [37:41]
Greg
But it's like with, with Simons, he's never a guy that I was like, oh, I, I could see Anthony Simons one day being on the Celtics. I just like didn't. You know, you can kind of picture guys on the Celtics. I never pictured him on the Celtics, so I never paid like that much attention to him other than like tuning into a game and be like, oh, Simon's is pretty good. But one thing that's really interesting, Will, is like, I've been thinking about this season and like guys that could really surprise me and I'm wondering if at the end of the season I told you that Anthony Simons was going to be the starting point guard for the Celtics for the next four years and he was going to be a star, how surprised would you be?
- [38:21]
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- [39:18]
Will
Sponsors.
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- [39:35]
Will
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- [39:52]
Will
I mean, using the term point guard for him, I'd be very surprised. Right? I just, I mean, I guess I see him as more of a combo guard, which is semantics. That's not necessarily the point of your question, but I'd be very surprised. I really would. And the way that you know, you're talking about, you haven't really heard his voice. I. Same thing. This is the first time I've ever, I think heard his voice was today watching a few of the clips. And you're right, it didn't feel right. Like, it didn't feel right. Like Anthony Simons. Like I've known about you and you're. You're now a Celtic. Like, this is not gonna sound flattering, and it probably just isn't, but it gave me a gut feeling of, is this kind of. Like, I used to, like, see. Like, I see and know Ricky Davis, but now Ricky Davis is on my team. Like, that doesn't. Yeah, right. Like. Like, that's. That for some reason that jumped to my mind is like, Anthony Simon's gonna be, like, a Ricky Davis expert, where you're like, I think this is kind of cool, but also, I don't think we're gonna win a lot. Like, that's. That was kind of the gut feeling, which is. Which is completely unfair. But that was just. It popped into my mind.
- [40:52]
Greg
You know, what's interesting with Simons is a couple years ago, when we were, like, trying to put players of certain molds in groups and say, like, you know, who would you take of this group of four? Like, I. I had him in the same category as Tyrese Maxey, Tyler Hero, and I forget who the fourth guy that I had in that group, but he was, like, kind of in that combo guard, undersized. Don't really know what he is on defense, but he can score the hell out of the ball. And because he's been in basketball obscurity the last two years, whereas Maxi has been played a prominent role on the Sixers, and Hero's been on a good team for. For the Heat, even though he's been injured most of the time, it's like, how. How much are we undervaluating? And on underestimating what Anthony Simons actually is as a basketball player, I'm excited to find out. I'm actually, like, talking to myself into Anthony Simons potentially being, like, a huge surprise pleasantly this season for the Right.
- [41:46]
Will
And it's funny how that. How divisive that group of. Of that type of player is, right? Because to me, for the most part, I'm like, that's the one of the dreaded player types. I'm like, if you're paying them 40 million, you're screwing your team, right? Like, you're just like, you're not gonna build a contender. Not that I don't like those guys, but then also, at the same time, I love Tyrese Maxi, and I'm kind of like, I would pay Maxi, but I like. But Tyler Herro got paid, and they're probably not. Not as far apart as we. Even though I like Maxi more than Hero, like, they're probably not as far apart as I want to make them out to be in my head, because I like one More than the other. I used, I used to advocate for Tyler Hero on this show at one point too. And like, I think Tyler's paying Tyler Hero is a mistake. So I don't know, it's just that, it's just that weird position. And you're right, I think Anthony Simons does fit that. So that's why again, when you said point guard, it, it just, it's tough because that combo guard position is really hard to, to get right. But. But he does exist. He is on the Celtics. He did attend the media day and have a press conference, so to speak. So we're gonna get to our bingo board in a second. I think we may have been able to cross that one off. A few other things that I had out here. Just quickly, did you catch any of Chris Boucher?
- [42:53]
Greg
I saw the only thing I took away from that was that he was baptized and Joe Missoula went to his baptism.
- [43:00]
Will
Yeah. So apparently their beef from whatever that was a year or two ago when they almost got into a fight in the court sport that is squashed. They're good to go. Chris Boucher. I. I caught a little bit of his, his time with the NBC Sports Boston crew. Really interesting story, man. Homeless from age 16 to 19. Didn't start playing basketball until 19. He was Canadian, so he's actually playing hockey. Can you imagine Chris Boucher's lanky ass out there playing hockey? How like, how terrifying that must have looked or hilarious. But playing basketball at 19, just kind of got picked up at like a park arc basically by like a guy starting a prep school and had to go through all these different, you know, processes just to get into juco. And then from Juco to get to Oregon where he ended up playing with Peyton Pritchard because he was like a 25 year old senior or something or 26 year old senior. And so Peyton Pritchard's, I think freshman year he was there with him and he's talking about he had to write like a 20 page paper just to get an exemption to play in the ncaa because he had to explain he's so old because he was homeless for all that time. And so it's just a really cool story. So Chris Boucher was somebody that I again don't know a ton about other than, you know, we had s on here and we kind of talked about him a little bit. So Boucher, I'm interested to see a little bit more. I've got two other things to hit on here. One I'll just go to quickly and Another one I want to talk about Josh Minot line of the day, I think on Joe Missoula. I guess they asked, like, your thoughts on. On your initial thoughts on Joe Missoula. He's inspiring and a little bit of a weirdo. I think that's perfect. The perfect line of how to describe Joe Missoula. So shout out to you, Josh Bonnet. I really enjoyed that. And then the last thing that I have here, and then if you have anything we can get to it, then we'll go to bingo. So Jordan Walsh, I guess, mentioned this. Bobby Manning was the one that put it out. But that Joe Missoula is playing around with, doing a little bit of the 5 in, 5 out system of just go as hard as you can for four or five minutes. That real, you know, kind of a college trick if, if you're really gonna play old.
- [44:57]
Greg
That's Steve Kerr from. Was it last year or two years ago he was doing that with the Warriors.
- [45:01]
Will
Yeah. I hate the idea. I just don't think it, I just, I don't know. Not for me. Didn't know if you had any, any thoughts on a. Especially with a team that's not incredibly deep, talent wise, I don't think it makes any sense. Yeah.
- [45:12]
Greg
If Jordan Walsh thinks that Joe Missoula is going to do that in an actual game, he's, he's, he's 21. He's a young kid, very impressionable, and he's looking at what's going on in practice and maybe is saying that that might happen in a game and it might happen in a preseason game. Maybe it's going to happen once or twice in a regular season game, but that's not going to be a staple of what the Celtics are doing. But I did think it was really cool that Joe Missoula went to Boucher's baptism. And I, I. That's one of the things that's coming out a lot with all these player interviews is how much Joe Missoula is involved in their lives and how much he really takes time to get to know each and every one of them and develop those personal relationships with them. So shout out to Joe Missoula for just being him.
- [45:55]
Will
Yeah, Joe's earning that contract right now. All right, cool. We're gonna go ahead and we're gonna bring in producer Alex to the stage. Alex Gonzalez in the building. As you guys know, that have been listening to the podcast here for a little bit. On our last episode, we created. Did a training camp slash preseason bingo board. So we have a Community card here even before we got to media day here. And I'll pull it up on the screen here for those watching on YouTube in just a second. If you haven't seen it yet, it is on our Instagram, it's on Twitter. We'll continue to update this throughout the preseason. But before we even got to media day, fellas, we already got two squares crossed off the board. Credentialed media zag. Celtics can win 50 games. Had that from a few members. Most notably, I think from. Got him blanking on his name right now. But we had it from a few people that in the media that went out and said Celtics could potentially win 50 games. And then, of course, JT is ahead of schedule comments I mentioned he went on 7242 different television shows in one day, and we got a lot of JT is ahead of schedule comments. But we have the rest of the board to try to figure out here or try to fill out here. So I'm going to throw it up on the screen here and let's see if we can do this. Yeah, here we go. Where? We're all still here, fellas. Anything that we think we can cross off today? I think there's one that we got today, but anything else that. That we are missing.
- [47:19]
Greg
The one that you're saying we can cross off, I'm trying to see what it could be here.
- [47:24]
Will
It's already crossed off on the screen, so I think Alex got it for us there, but. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's. Simons gets a press conference. I think that counts. Today we. We just needed. We needed real acknowledgment that Anthony Simons actually was a Boston Celtic. And we got that today. We heard his voice. He was up there in a uniform in front of a mic. I think that counts.
- [47:44]
Greg
Okay, interesting. I thought it was going to be that we didn't get that because we didn't have, like, the whole Simons holding up the jersey, like, official press conference. But I'll leave it up to you guys. I'm happy to cross that and cross it off the board.
- [47:55]
Will
Yeah, I mean, we're not gonna get that at this point. Yeah, I think this is just. That was a square just for confirmation that he made it to train, he made it to the podium, and he didn't get traded. Like, I think that's. That's really the, you know, the essence of what that one is. For now, though, I don't think we really got anything else today. Greg, you mentioned Jordan Walsh. Best shape of his life. Report quote, that. That more was Xavier Tillman. Today is where we kind of got that one. The only other, I guess, questionable one. And if you're in the chat right now, feel free to chime in here. Jalen Brown streams film session or IRL courtside on his new streaming service. Well, he was on his. He was on Twitch today with Bill Nye, which, by the way, hilarious buddy cop comedy between Bill Nye and Jalen Brown brewing. Absolutely love it. They were on his Twitch today. They were streaming from Media Day. I saw at one point. I haven't seen the full thing yet, but Derrick White hopped on. They were doing some type of science experiment. So I don't know if this counts. I think this is the only one, at least for today. That is. That is in the question mark category. I'll let you guys give your thoughts.
- [49:05]
Greg
I'm gonna defer to Alex.
- [49:07]
Alex Gonzalez
I think Media Day, it kind of made sense for him to stream. You know, they're all. They're not actually, you know, doing any basketball stuff. He's just, like, behind the scenes. So I don't think this one counts. Maybe if we get towards the end of the preseason and he still hasn't done it, we'll just exit off as it counts.
- [49:25]
Will
But. But for right now, we don't do that. We. We make the call in the moment. We. We stick true to our guns here on this show. So I think we got to make a. Make a ruling now. Greg, what do you. What do you say?
- [49:35]
Greg
Yeah, we don't cross that off. But, Alex, did you have any other takeaways from Media Day today other than.
- [49:42]
Alex Gonzalez
JT getting his cornrows back, you know, after he didn't have them in yesterday? Pretty impressive turnaround, but no, I mean, I've been seeing a lot of JT media. Honestly, I was kind of busy at work today, so I wasn't able to really tune in to as much Media Day footage as I would have liked to, but, you know, I'm excited. The video of JT really got me excited as a. I'm sure a lot of Celtics fans, but at the same time, do we really need him back in December or January, like some of those Twitter doctors are saying? Probably not.
- [50:17]
Greg
Not.
- [50:17]
Will
So. Yeah.
- [50:19]
Greg
Has it. Has it changed your opinion on expectations for the season if Tatum is actually healthy?
- [50:25]
Will
No.
- [50:26]
Alex Gonzalez
I mean, you guys already kind of broke it down. We don't have a front court at all. So, I mean, like, yes, Tatum is a very nice addition, but, like, I kind of want to see just how our roster is through the first two months of the season. If Keda can, you know, expand on his role and average like 10 and 10, something like that in 25, 29 minutes a game, I think that would be really nice.
- [50:52]
Greg
Did you guys know that Amari Williams was from the uk? I did not know that.
- [50:57]
Will
Now that you're saying it, I feel like I did hear that after he got drafted, but definitely did not remember that, like, until, like, I wouldn't have been able to say that without. Without you bringing that up.
- [51:07]
Greg
Yeah, I watched part of his. I watched part of his interview today. I was like, what accent does he have? Because it's not like. Like a full, like, Manchester accent or anything like that. I don't even know where he's from. But there's like, definitely some, you know, Englishness to the way he talks, which was pretty interesting. It made me like him more. You know, I like everyone with an English accent.
- [51:25]
Will
Yeah, they all. They all sound jolly. Right? So I like it. I like it. All right, so bingo board. We've got three down, and we're getting. We're gonna. We're gonna try to fill this board out here, I think, Alex, to your point, if we're gonna have any type of surprising front court Amari Williams overreaction, that's in play. Yeah. New white guy love, Luca Garza. And you talked about Nemi's Kaeda, so we'll have to see. We've got more training camp and more preseason to go here, so three down and we'll continue to mark that off. So if you guys want to follow along, make sure you're following us across all of our social medias. Twitter, not Tick Tock. Actually, Tick Tock. Not a fan of bingo, as we found out anti Bingo over there at Tick Tock. So first of all, for gambling, for.
- [52:07]
Alex Gonzalez
Some reason, I don't know why.
- [52:09]
Greg
Hey, Will, we're. We're doing another pod this week, right?
- [52:12]
Will
Yeah, we'll do another one this week. Yep.
- [52:14]
Greg
So why don't we. Why don't we save. Because we're already at 50 minutes here. Why don't we save the one player, one team for the. The next pod? So I feel like that could go like half an hour.
- [52:22]
Will
Okay, fair enough. We'll save it. We'll do two next time because we'll. I think what we can do is start kind of getting into actual reports, actual positions here and starting to break it down. So we're going to wrap it up here for this edition of Green with Envy. We're going to be back. Like Greg said, sometime later this week. We'll set up our schedule here. We'll have it more locked in as we we go throughout the preseason here and make sure that we let you guys know each and every week when you're going to be able to hear us. But for myself, for producer Alex Gonzalez, for Greg Baneikis, that's going to do it for this episode of Green with Envy. Season's back. Come on, psychos. It's time to lock in. Celtics basketball. Let's do it. We'll catch you guys later.
- [53:01]
Greg
Red Sox.
- [53:02]
Will
And go Red Sox. That's right. Wild card, baby. Let's get it. Peace until I hit the floor Every time I hit this high it's you I find it don't take much no.
- [53:23]
Greg
More.
- [53:26]
Will
Until the magic dark. For a limited time at McDonald's, get a Big Mac Extra Value meal for $8. That means two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun, and medium fries. And a drink. We may need to change that jingle.
- [53:44]
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