← Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
Green With Envy: A Boston Celtics Podcast
What is going on with Derrick White? + Mediocre Life Updates
00:52:56
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- [00:01]
Will Weir
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- [00:31]
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- [01:29]
Greg Menekis
This is Mike Gorman and you're listening.
- [01:31]
Will Weir
To Green with Envy with Will and Greg. All right, everybody. Celtics get a weekend split against the Sixers and Rockets. We take a look back at those games as well as we start to preview the week ahead. And of course, you know, we have America's favorite segment, Mediocre Life Update. All that and more coming up next here on Green with Envy. You guys know the deal. Let's lock in. What up, what up, what up. Welcome into another another edition of Remission Envy. As always, this is your boy, Will. We're checking in. How you doing? How you live it? Joining me as he does each and every time, my best friend, co host and the coach of our podcast, the one and only Greg Menekes. Greg, a week ago it felt like, man, this is going to be a long season. I think we're back to even. It feels, feels good to be right back, kind of where we thought we'd be here. Celtics 3 and 4 coming off winning three out of their last four games. Things feel a little, a little more like we thought preseason right now.
- [02:51]
Greg Menekis
Yeah, man, I'm feeling pretty good. I, I think although it felt like it was going to be a long season, it's a season that I'm excited for. Even though, you know, we don't have championship expectations, there's just a lot of internal development and some narratives that are brewing that I'm excited just to follow over, over the course of the season. You know, I'm sure we're going to talk about all this today, but the back courts development, what we're seeing out of Ugo and Josh Mina, Nemius Kada, can he become a starting center? Jalen Brown just like really stepping into his own as his, you know, with this being his team. All those things that we've been talking about. Can Joe Missoula figure out how to use timeouts, etc. Etc.
- [03:32]
Will Weir
Yeah, that storyline's still around. Yeah. My biggest thing is just, you know, a week ago we were sitting here, we were doing an overreaction podcast on purpose, and that's, that's what you do after week one one. But we were actually sitting here like, man, we might have three wins by the end of November, right? Like that. Like, like, like, like that was. We were acknowledging that. It felt like that was a real possibility. And then they get three wins out of four games. And really, you know, that Rockets game, which we'll talk about a little bit, like really kind of a schedule loss, bad matchup anyways, but a real schedule loss. Back to back Houston couple of days, just chilling, waiting. Like, that was a game that was set up for the Celtics to not have a lot of success. And so to walk away from, from last three in one, that. That feels really good. It just feels to the point that you're saying, like, now we can get back to just focusing on, like, what the development is and really what all these other aspects are that we were excited for as opposed to already being, you know, let's say the Celtics went one in four last week and we were one in seven or whatever. And then we're like, all right, I guess we got to start watching college basketball. Like, it's a much better feeling, you know, where we're at today. And so let's, let's talk about some of those storylines that you mention. Just kind of do it through the view of these games over the weekend. And I think, honestly, you know, when you, when you look at these two games, I just mentioned kind of the setup for the, for the game against the Rockets, a lot of this is going to come through the lens of that Philadelphia game, because I think Philadelphia was a team that was riding such a high. That was their first loss of the season. It's a game on the road, a hostile environment. And I mean, you have the stakes of. Of course. Of course it is an NBA cup group B game, which, I'll be honest, I just looked up group B like, 30 seconds ago to learn which group the Celtics were in, but a big win for the Celtics nonetheless. So I want to talk about this. This Philly game for the majority of. Kind of looking back at this. This weekend split here, Greg, and I'll ask you. You know, that game, I think was. Was pretty fascinating from my perspective, but what stood out to you about that game that you want to talk about first?
- [05:50]
Greg Menekis
Well, full disclosure for everybody out there, Will and I did not watch either of these games live. Right, that. That's true for you.
- [05:58]
Will Weir
So I. I caught the fourth quarter of the Philly game live, and then I went back last night and watched the. Watch the first three quarters.
- [06:04]
Greg Menekis
Okay, cool. So I watched the last five minutes of the Philly game live, and then I went back yesterday and I watched the. The parts that I missed. And it's always interesting when you're watching a game, you know, knowing the result of the game, it's just. It's just a different experience. So I want to start with the five minutes that I actually watched in. In crunch time there where the Celtics. You were.
- [06:29]
Will Weir
This was the most important part of the game was these last five, seven minutes of the game.
- [06:33]
Greg Menekis
Exactly. And the Celtics were trading blows, right, With. With the Sixers. There were a lot of big shots that were made. Jalen had a couple big shots down the stretch, and I. I just thought that the last minute, in the last 20 seconds specifically, were really interesting. And I want to start with Joe Missoula's use of timeouts. Right?
- [06:55]
Will Weir
So the.
- [06:56]
Greg Menekis
The biggest thing. 20 seconds left. Celtics are up by one. The Sixers have all the momentum. They're coming back. And Josh Mina ends up with the ball out of bounds. Derek White gets open. Joe Missoula sees Josh Minut about to inbound the ball, and he just dead sprints towards the referee calling a timeout from my perspective, just because he didn't trust Josh Minot to make the right play. All the momentum was. Was with. Was with the Sixers. I could see a bad pass and a layup all a. All of a sudden, the Celtics are down 1, right? So when he makes the timeout, it's like simultaneous with Josh Minot making a very easy Inbound to Derrick White, who would have gotten fouled, right? And then the Celtics inbound the ball at half court. Peyton Pritchard runs into the backcourt. He gets trapped. We call another timeout. And then we inbound the ball to Jalen Brown with two seconds to get it over half court. He ends up turning the ball over. And then, you know, the, the chaos ensues of the, of the final 13 seconds or whatever it was. What were your thoughts on Joe Missoula's use of timeouts?
- [08:03]
Will Weir
So as you were going through this, I was, I was pulling up the, the play by play here on NBA.com because I think. And this is how I felt in live time and as I, I re. Watched the end of this game. So I watched the third three quarters last night that I missed, and then I rewatched the last like three, four minutes of this game. And the Joe Missoula timeout thing, it's. It's kind of frustrating because it's been a thing for so long. And then it was like, okay, I guess we get what he's doing. And, and honestly, I think he's kind of caught in the middle of what he's trying to do with timeouts right now. We know his background of that soccer philosophy of kind of trying to figure it out on the flow. And like, yes, if you make a timeout, they can make adjustments just the same way. And so looking back, I think this for me actually goes back even further than just that play. Because if you go back in game logs, the Celtics were up by 10 with 3 minutes and 11 seconds left, 108 to 98. From that point on, the only point the Celtics scored was Jaylen Brown hit one of two free throws. And every shot they got was God awful in that time frame. And I know in, in live time, and Joe doesn't like doing this, and it's one of the things that kind of irks me a little bit. And sometimes he ends up having those timeouts in his back pocket that end up working out for him because he then can manipulate the, the free throw situation, right? And so sometimes it's like, okay, I see, I see where it is. Maybe I'm in the wrong, but I think with this team. And again, this is going to be the theme all year. Late game situations, them getting good shots is going to be really difficult. This is where you need that tactician. And so before we even get to this late stretch here, that, that we're now talking about where he's running to call the timeout and it's slightly delayed and it's a little bit odd. Like, to me, there's maybe even a moment earlier on as the Sixers are closing this gap here, where maybe you take a time out to actually get a better offensive look, and maybe you end up getting some points that give a little bit more distance for those later moments where you don't have to freak out because Josh Minot might. Just might. You're not. You're worried about him getting that ball into Derrick. So that's number one for me. And then on, when we get to the actual point that. That you're referencing, I think I mentioned this to yesterday, I just felt like if you watch it, Joe doesn't kind of go for the timeout right away, then he sees to your point it's Josh Minot. And I. I just think he's caught right now trying to understand and learn this team as to. It's not Drew Holiday, Derrick White, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown and Al Horford out there where you can be like, I trust those guys, and it's hard to disagree with them, you know, like, it's not those guys anymore. So now you have to be hyper aware of who's inbounding, who picked it up, who on the made shot, where is everybody spatially on the floor. And I think Joe instinctually wants to let it play out and then tried to. To go and correct, which ended up being likely an over correction based on what you're saying. What to your point where it was going to be a very easy inbound to the guy that you do want to have the ball with. So.
- [10:58]
Greg Menekis
Right. And coming out of, coming out of the timeout, he had Josh Minor off the court. Right? So you go that. That'. I just, like, made inferences that that's why he called that time out and he. And he freaked out because when. When he comes back on the court, Josh Minot's on the bench, Derrick White is inbounding, and they run a play for Payton Pritchard. Right. Like, that's what seemingly what they wanted. They want their best decision maker, Derrick White, best passer, Derrick White passing the ball to the best free throw shooter and Payton Pritchard. So best ball handler and best ball handler. Exactly. All right, I. I do want to go back to that play by play, because there's something that came up here from the Jaylen Brown three pointer to put the Celtics back up 10. And this is something that we were texting about. This is more for the audience just to kind of relive those, those shots from there. So we get a so 10898. Jaylen Brown hits another big shot. Jaylen was awesome in this game. So we go. Josh Minot misses a 16 foot jumper. Josh Minot misses a driving dunk. Xavier Tillman misses a three pointer. Josh Minot misses a 27 foot three pointer. So that's like a minute stretch where we just have Xavier Tillman and Josh Minot taking shots. That's not a recipe to close out a game.
- [12:12]
Will Weir
And as you're going through this, I'm now flashing back to my initial thoughts watching this being like, damn, all of those used to be Drew Holiday, Al Horford and Chris Staps Porzingis. That would have been who's in those spots taking those shots. Life's a lot different these days.
- [12:27]
Greg Menekis
Yeah. So. And that's something that Missoula is going to have to figure out this season, right? Is because in the past you had nothing but two way players on your roster and in your rotation. And now he's going to have to do a lot more offense, defense and you know, kind of pick your poison there. Because the Celtics are up 10. You want to have your best defensive players on the court. Tillman and Minot are two of the better defenders on the team. Right. So you're not going to have Simons and Hauser in there, which are the two guys that replaced Tillman and Minet after Joe called that timeout for free throws. So it's like he's going to have to figure out like to your point, he doesn't know exactly what the es and flows are with this team, what the strengths and weaknesses are. Just like letting it play out. He doesn't trust these guys to let it play out at this point. So he's going to use those timeouts and going to use them in different ways from, from years past. Okay. Other things that stood out to me, I want to go back to the beginning of the game. Now that we covered the end of the game, I just thought Jaylen Brown was unbelievable in the first half. I thought that was maybe the best half of basketball I've seen Jaylen play this season for sure. But in quite some time he just had all elements of his game working offense and defense, getting wherever he wanted, playing out of the post, playing out of the mid range, hitting open threes, snaking, picking rolls and finding easy wing shooters. Which is something that's a great development that I'm seeing out of JB is his ability to snake a pick and roll get somebody in jail on his hip and then he forces the help coming over from the wing, kicks it out to a wide open Derrick White or wide open Peyton Pritchard for three. It's like he's playing very simplified basketball and I love to see it.
- [14:07]
Will Weir
Yeah, Jaylen was awesome in this game and the first half in general was at least for the first 20 to 22 minutes, was probably the best version of this Celtics team that we have seen the entire year so far. And Jaylen Brown in, even in the second half, you said his first half was, was, was superior. But even the second half where he did have three turnovers, he's the reason the Celtics were able to even keep afloat because they were scratching and clawing in this second half. They were trying to give this game away at certain points. And Jaylen Brown was the guy that kept everything level. He had 13 points in the second half, went 5 of 9, 2 of 4 from the three point line, and you know, still had two assists even though those three turnovers. And he was really the only guy that felt like, guys, be steady, be calm. He was the guy that you trusted, you know, in a lot of those moments and is the reason the Celtics could barely hang on to go ahead and get this win. But again, Jalen has been awesome this year, right. Like save for probably like the, the Knicks game and I'm not the Rockets game, whatever like that. We were gonna get smoked in that one. Like, Jalen hasn't had many moments where I've looked at, at him as, you know, not up to task basically. Right. Like, I think there's been an adjustment now that we see on the court to, to what we talked about. And I tweeted this from or retweeted this on Twitter. Jason, Tim, our guy had basically very similar thoughts to us from a week ago about Jaylen's just got to lean into being that dynamic scorer. We don't necessarily need the playmaking to be. All of a sudden he's, he's looking to get everybody involved. Seven assists. Kind of like what he was more trying to do, lay in the background in that first Philly game. This version of Jalen is the guy that we need and he's doing it at a very efficient clip. So I'm, I'm through the roof impressed with Jalen Brown so far. Like, I think he's given us everything we need. I, I think it's development on the other sides of the cells are going to exceed expectations is where things are going to come from. But I have, I think Jalen Brown is doing absolutely everything near, near perfection so far to start this season.
- [16:04]
Greg Menekis
Yeah. In that fourth quarter, just looking at the, the game charts, Jalen's only shot attempt was that three pointer that he hit with with three minutes left. A lot of Derek, he got fouled.
- [16:14]
Will Weir
Late on that jump shot.
- [16:16]
Greg Menekis
Right.
- [16:16]
Will Weir
That was the one free throw. Yeah.
- [16:17]
Greg Menekis
Yep. A lot of Derrick White, which I also want to talk about because the struggles are continuing with Derek white. He was 2 for 7 in that fourth quarter and just had an absolute dog performance against the, against the Rockets. There was one stat that I wanted to pull up because what's this guy's name on Celtics block? He does a really good job. Azad Rose. He does a really good job with the, the 10 things after the games. I think it was in the Houston one. He had these stats for Derrick White and Peyton Pritchard. Let me just give me a second as I scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. Yes. Okay. So his ninth thing. Derek Pritchard and White Usage increase impact so last year Derrick White is. I'm just reading this directly from his article. Derrick White is among the players with the biggest usage increase last season to this year. Plus 6.1% in usage rate per cleaning the glass.comPritchard is plus 4%. Derrick White's point per attempt, okay, drops from 1.21 which is 86 percentile, to.084 which is the 8th percentile. Kate and Pritchard 1.28 100th percentile to 0.99 17th percentile. Big swings more Derrick White his rim efficiency has dropped from 71% to 42% and from 56% to 25% in the floater zone.
- [17:59]
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- [19:01]
Will Weir
It'S tough. It's been a tough. Derrick White is an effective field goal percentage 38%. It's not great, Greg. That's not great. Yeah, let's talk about this, man, because it's. It. This has been one of the interesting part. I think one of the more interesting discussion points of this season. And we've, I mean, we've been hitting on it, right? Like, it just feels like Derrick White is trying to do a bit too much. But at the same time, it's understandable why he is attempting to do too much. And I think for me, it's. It's. As I watch these games, I see moments where I'm like, that's Derek White shot. That's a Derek White, like, IQ play that he makes. And then there's just these times where you can tell he's either to your point, you said this a couple times, he's just taking random heat. Check threes that don't make any sense. And I don't know how. Like, again, I understand why he's doing it and it's tough to criticize because I don't, I don't really know what. I don't really have a correction for this other than to stop doing it. But if he stops doing that, what does that then put more pressure on Josh Minot to. To find a way to create a shot, to, you know, find, you know, I'm trying to think, you know, Hugo Gonzalez to create a shot. Right. So what's the answer? That. That's, that's where I struggle with this Derrick White start, is if he's not the one that is sometimes forcing and of course, just the idea of just running better offense. But it's a, It's a tough question to answer.
- [20:30]
Greg Menekis
So I'm watching. His two made three pointers against the Sixers. The first one was off a swing, so offensive rebound for Keda kicks it out to Simons. Pass to the corner. Derrick White wide open three. The other one was off of a Ugo Steel who drives, kicks to a wide open Derrick White on the wing. And like those are the shots that Derrick White was making and taking last year with Jason Tatum delivering him the ball most of the time just like shots within yourself. And I want to watch the, the shots that he missed real quick. So I'm just going to go to all, all the seven three pointers real quick. So let's see. Next one foreign. Let's see. This one is his third shot. Heat check. So this was right after those two made threes. Heat check misses a 28 three pointer with a hand in his face. Right. His next shot, Nemius Kada, right side. DHO comes off. That's a Derek White shot. So he just. And he airballed it like completely.
- [21:39]
Will Weir
Yeah, I know the one you're talking about. Yeah.
- [21:41]
Greg Menekis
Then he shoots another step in three where he's just trying to find it in the fourth quarter. Go Xavier Tillman. DHO snakes the screen. Pass out to Tillman, dribble hand off to Hower. And he shoots a three off of Xavier Tillman. Miss. But he shoots it from like 30ft and then back. 27 footer. Yeah. Back to back misses, right? Yeah. So there's just like a lot of Derrick White doing things that, you know, part of it is, you know, in this game, maybe they weren't quite as many heat check threes. And maybe it's just like he's, he's.
- [22:15]
Will Weir
This was closer to the Derrick White that you want 2% 7.
- [22:18]
Greg Menekis
Two for seven against the Sixers. Right. Which is what you want. Not 6 for 18 or whatever he was doing early in the season. Right. Like until you find your shot, let's bring those attempts down to under 10.
- [22:30]
Will Weir
9.7. 9.7. Listen, I said he's gonna lead the league. He's down to 9.7. So he's not, not leading the league anymore. And you know to the question that was asking is like what can change? Right. So there's some where it's just playing more within yourself. And part of that in this game is, is we got. And this is sticking with the backcourt theme here. We got a more aggressive Anthony Simons in this game. He took 21 shots in this game.
- [22:53]
Greg Menekis
Yep.
- [22:53]
Will Weir
Now, he wasn't super efficient. He was 7 to 21, 3 of 9, had 19 points to get 21 shots. That's not great. Right. But I do think that that's kind of the answer. Right. Is a more aggressive Anthony Simons. And it does two things. And in this game I do feel like at least we saw him and it didn't always work out. He got Downhill within the half court game more often. Right. Like you and I have been talking through these first two weeks, we need more paint touches. There's just not enough guys getting in the paint and there's some really, really bad assist stats that go along with this basketball team right now. And part of that is it's just too predictable about who's going where and what spots they're going to be in. So I think if Anthony Simons can find a way to get downhill, whether that's off of screens and you know, as we've seen, we've concerned about his handling. It depends whose defender is. But like I think even though he was 7 to 21, I liked the more aggressive Simons because I think it allows Derrick White to be able to settle more into the role that he should be and kind of pick his spots a little bit more. And so I, I think that's kind of the answer, but go ahead.
- [23:57]
Greg Menekis
And Simons was a tail 2 house, 5 for 11 in the first half against the Sixers, 2 for 10 in the second half against the Sixers. And like with a bench scorer, like you gotta kind of ride some of those highs and lows and then hope you're hoping that if he has a great first half, maybe he can be a little bit more of a decoy in the second half to your point and get someone like Derrick White or Peyton Pritchard going. But I thought Peyton was also really good in that Sixers game, playing out of the mid range and getting to his spots. But overall, I think in the, in the Sixers game, couple things that stood out to me. Jalen Brown was awesome. Great first half overall by the team, Great first half by Anthony Simons and then the continued great play of Josh Minot and Ugo whenever they get their chances like their defense. You could tell from the first time we played the Sixers until the second time we played the Sixers, right? Josh Minot on Tyrese Maxey high pickup points, Peyton Pritchard all over Vijay Edgecomb. When Ugo comes in the game, he's just like picking up full court, making sure that those guys are seeing length and seeing bodies and they were just like more guys in, in spaces helping hard off of the corners. Like anytime Edgecomb would drive out of a slot, there would be somebody waiting for him at the block and he'd have to kick it out to the corner, right? And then like doing some really good like veer outs onto the wing. So I thought that the, the development from the first game of the Season to this NBA cup first game was much more important than seeing how the Celtics would play against a bad matchup and a schedule loss against the Rockets. Right. I learned a lot more about this team from the Sixers game than I did against Rockets.
- [25:38]
Will Weir
Yeah. And to your point about, you know, Edgecombe and Maxi and that first game we came on here and we were trying to reserve ourselves from just leaving with like, holy, that was amazing to watch how those guys played. And we talked about how we felt them in this, in that first game, in this game here to your point, like they still remained very efficient and credit to them for remaining kind of within themselves and trusting their teammates. Like Tyrus Maxi had 14 assists in this game. But it's because of the Celtics like defense that made them say, cool, make, you know, Kelly Oubre and go make Quentin Grimes and you know, Andre Drummond, make him take two threes, which was a fun sight to see. You know, like go ahead and make them do that as opposed to, you know, the way that Maxi and Edgecomb came in that first game and just kind of impose their will. So I'm with you. I think that's why this game is so much more interesting to talk about than the, than the Rockets game. And I want to just hit on quickly your point about Peyton Pritchard. I thought Peyton was awesome again, somewhat a tale of two halves. He was unbelievable in that first half, I thought. And you know, two point Peyton Pritchard, you know, he's been really good from two, he's at six, almost six and a half attempts per game from two, shooting 66.7. And most of those are kind of just either in the pain or just outside of the paint, really playing off of two feet. And I've been very impressed with his two point game and I just have to assume he's not going to be an 183 point shooter for the entire season because that is just illogical with who we know Peyton Pritchard to be. So I'm feeling encouraged with Pritchard in, in that sense that he's still averaging 14 and a half points a game despite his main asset just completely backfiring on him to this point in the season, but finding a way, you know, to contribute. Averaging five and a half assists per game while only 1.1 turnover. And so Greg, I mentioned earlier there's some really alarming assist statistics for this game. I've got a good one and a bad one. Which one do you want first?
- [27:34]
Greg Menekis
The bad one.
- [27:36]
Will Weir
Bad one. The Celtics rank last in assist percentage and second to last in assists overall per game, only behind the vaunted New Orleans Pelicans, who are just an absolute dumpster fire. That's the bad news. Here's the good news. They're fifth and assist to turnover ratio. This team is not turning the ball over. So they're not getting assists, but they're not giving up easy buckets to the other team. And that's helping them. Basically, other than the Rockets game, they've been attached in every single game that they've played this year, even the ones that, that they've lost. So, you know, when I look at Peyton Pritchard and he's handling the ball a lot here and he's got 5.6 assists to just 1.1 turnover, like, that's really impressive. And like, you think about, okay, if Peyton Pritchard is not an 18 shooter and if even he's having a bad shooting season, you assume he's going to be somewhere in the mid-30s, right? Like that. That should be a bad shooting season for Peyton Pritchard. You think about what that does for this offense. If he starts hitting shots, his 14.6 goes up to, you know, 18 points per game. If he's hitting the, the number of threes, and if he's keeping at that five and a half to 1.1 like that, that does a lot for this team. If that changes. Now, some of that goes along with the Derrick White conversation of what shots. And you gotta look at it, I think Peyton Pritchard's getting closer to similar shots to what he used to take. Probably a little bit more tightly defended, as we've mentioned before. But I, I feel like that has to change. And I'm curious to know how much that opens up things for this team when that day comes. And I'm assuming it's coming. Yeah.
- [29:03]
Greg Menekis
Pritchard is always in the league leaders of assisted turnover ratio. And I think this goes back to our point of Missoula putting Jalen more off the ball than on the ball and allowing like the, the guys that are more natural playmakers and ball handlers to set him up for success. Vers having to set them up for success. Right? Like, Jalen Brown is our best player. Let's get him the damn ball in his spots. Right. We don't need to like make him play point guard. So Peyton Pritchard just kind of falling into that role. Derrick White, although he's not shooting well, is still a low turnover guy. Right? So I think that's probably the reason why we're seeing less turnovers and Tatum, you know, turns the ball. He's not a natural point guard either. So he's going to turn the ball over a little bit more than Payton Pritchard or Derrick White as well. So yeah, I think if Pritchard and White can at least like get to 30 shooting, like, imagine what that's going to do for the rest of the office.
- [29:59]
Will Weir
That's kind of my thing. Right. It's like these guys are just not like, like I think Derrick White. It's a lot of shot selection. Like the shot selection gets better. If it's closer to that Philly game that we just went through all of those shots where it was like one out of those seven. I would have, I disagreed with like they're gonna start falling. Peyton Pritchard, I don't know. There's like a weird mental block because he's hitting nearly 70 of his two point shots. So he still knows how to shoot. Right. Like, it's just, I don't, I don't know that that would. But it, it is really curious to think about if those guys just get back to even 35% because, you know, what is Derek, I mentioned Peyton Pritchard's numbers. Derek White's at 25% on 9.7 threes per game. Like those guys are taking 16 to 17 of your three point shots every single night and they're hitting at around 20%. Like that's, that's really tough to win when you're going to shoot that volume at that low of efficiency. And you know, right now they're first in as a team. First and three point attempts, 27th and percent. Like that's not the greatest recipe. So it is interesting to think about what that would do to, to change this team. And Greg, as I was looking at some stats here over the first two weeks, there's another thing that kind of jumped out to me. What did we hear about all preseason about how this team was going to play?
- [31:07]
Greg Menekis
They're going to play with pace.
- [31:09]
Will Weir
What do you think they rank in pace right now through two weeks?
- [31:13]
Greg Menekis
Good question. 23rd.
- [31:16]
Will Weir
29Th. What a track team, man, that's a, that's a track team stat right there. 29th in pace, which is just interesting because of just all the, the kind of hype around it. At the same time. When this team does kind of get out and play with a lot of pace, like I don't always think it looks great. So I kind of understand the 29th pace.
- [31:40]
Greg Menekis
Yeah. But you know, one thing they are that's an offensive stat, right. I don't know exactly how pace is measured, but, but defensively, I think like the pressure is full court and it's, it's the whole game, right? Which, which is, which is great. And I think Ugo, Josh Minor and Baylor, like Baylor just got. We picked up his, his. His option, third year option, and I think, you know, he had a nice second half against the Rockets. I think he ended up with like 17 points or something like that. But they're actually using him as a point of attack defender and trusting him to use his physicality to get over screens. And I, I think that's not something I really had Baylor Shireman pegged as is like a point of attack defender, but they're trusting him to do that. And if he's able to knock down three pointers and be like a solid playmaker and be a physical defender that you can trust to throw on a guy like Tyrese Maxey or somebody like that, like, that's actually a decent asset that the Celtics could continue to develop because, you know, there are times they play him over Ugo and I think that, that you should just give those minutes to Ugo. But I'm kind of just like lower on Shireman than maybe I should be. I need to like, kind of in my mind reevaluate who he is as a player and just to see if I start to like him a little bit more than I. I've liked them in the past.
- [33:00]
Will Weir
I mean, I think just. And let's group Minot in here as well. Right? This is all three young guys that, you know, are vying for the, for the playing time of Joe Missoula. And I think just with Minot and Ugo, like each of them could go over four in a game, but you feel their impact in all these different ways. Like, Baylor to a degree has to be productive offensively to really feel like he had a great game. Right. You know what I mean? Like, there's. There are little things that he can certainly do, but like the games that, the few games last year in this, the game he had against the Rockets here, where he goes 6 to 7 from the field, 4 or 5, 17 points, 5 rebounds, like, you can start to find other things. But if, if he's doing the super confident Baelish Ironman rapid fire, but he's.004 with some bombs, then you're like, I just can't walk away feeling very great about this. Whereas Ugo and Minot, if they go over three, over four, it's usually they took, they missed a couple shots within rhythm or they went for a put back dunk that didn't go down. And there's a hustle element to it. Right. So I think it's just a different feel. But I am interested to see Joe balance this throughout the season because I'm with you. My gut instinct is just Minot and Ugo more consistently will give you a better chance to win night in and night out. But I think obviously giving Baylor that extra year, you got to see what's there. Like Jordan Walsh who did finally get some run in this, in this Houston game and you know, played 19 minutes 4 attention field 2 or 510 points will be interesting to see if that becomes anything going forward here or this could have just been back to back and you know, Joe like understanding kind of the, the moment here.
- [34:38]
Greg Menekis
Were you surprised they picked up his, his options?
- [34:43]
Will Weir
Not entirely. I mean I think the Celtics are still in, in place right now where picking that up is like Baylor still I think could have some appeal as a trade asset. Right. So I think there's something about having, you know, if they were to make a move some point this year or in the off season, just having that like it's like, it's like two and a half, three million. I forget what exactly it is. But like if, if you're, you're trading for it and you're like, yeah, I think there could be something here like that's super valuable right now in this NBA is even for a year getting more than what you expect out of a guy in the 2 to 4 million dollar range. Like it can change your entire rotation if you get that. So I think even if you're selling a team on that, like I think it makes a little bit sense now. You do have to play him. He's got to have a few moments like that Rockets game for it to mean anything at all. Yeah. But yeah, I wasn't overly surprised to see them, to see them pick it up. Anything from that Rockets game that you want to touch on here, Was there anything that, that jumped out to you or was this just like we said, bad matchup, bad timing.
- [35:42]
Greg Menekis
Yeah, bad matchup, bad timing. Rockets had a lot of rest. Celtics played a lot of zone and dared them to shoot. And they had a game where they just like hit a ton of threes. Guys that aren't normally great shooters were hitting threes. And you know this, you can excuse the Celtics for being tired and not wanting to like have a dog fight with, with the Rockets when They were having an abnormal shooting game. And then just like the that they have. I guess the one thing would be this was a one terrible Derrick White game. Really bad Jaylen Brown game. Took a lot of pull ups, long twos against length. And that's just like it's different shooting mid range jumpers against Edgecomb and Maxi and Grimes who are all under 65 and then shooting those against Thompson, Jabari Smith Jr and Jamari Goin at the rim. That was nice. That was a nice block guy.
- [36:34]
Will Weir
It was a good Jabari. Good. Good night for the Jabari Smith fan club. Yeah, one thing I did want to. And we can touch on this briefly here and then we can, we can move on is I feel like. And I don't think the Celtics are going to make any dramatic moves, but the Rockets are in this like weird position where they're. They are looking for a guard, right with the whole friendly and bleed injury. And Derrick White and Peyton Pritchard keep coming up as names like, hey, would they overwhelm the Celtics to go get one of these guys? And if either of them were on the block, we know the typical names that might be associated. Was there any of them that kind of jumped out to you as like I would still like I'm keeping an eye on this basically for down the road.
- [37:14]
Greg Menekis
I know he's your guy, but Jabari Smith is a guy that I really like. I would. I don't think that we're getting Jabari Smith in a trade for Peyton Pritchard. I think that would be.
- [37:23]
Will Weir
That's a Derek White.
- [37:24]
Greg Menekis
That would be a Derek White trade. And I don't really want to trade Derek White, but. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of, I mean size. I just want size on the Celtics roster, which is why I love Josh Mina and Ugo's because, you know, Ugo's got that crazy wingspan. Josh Minot plays way bigger. Like that rebound he got over Embiid when he got followed and missed the two free throws. That was a man's rebound. Him and Jalen who were like peak jumping and mine, it was like over Jalen and just ripped that thing down and he's just a great rebounder. So I think the Celtics have really found something in with Josh Mina and Hugo Gonzalez for when Tatum comes back.
- [37:59]
Will Weir
Yeah, I agree, man. And I'm excited to see what this next week looks like coming up here. So quick, look at the week ahead here. Celtics. We're recording this on a Monday morning. Excuse me. Monday night, Will Hardy and the Jazz come to Town Wednesday night. Wizards are in town. We will be recording a post game reaction after that game on Wednesday night and then Magic two times this weekend, including you guessed it, NBA cup game on Friday night in Orlando and then they stay there for a back to back on Sunday. So Greg, look at this is this is an interesting week for the Celtics because Jazz and Wizards, two extremely winnable games, dare I say some of the few games that you should expect the Celtics to win on the season and then the Magic who you know, I put in the conference finals, a lot of teams, a lot of people had them in the top three, four spots. They've been struggling to kind of figure out their identity which has been a bit strange. Like this is an interesting week where the Celtics just at least have opportunity to, to maybe have a big week here. What, what, what for this week are you excited to, to take a look at with these matchups?
- [39:15]
Greg Menekis
NBA Cup? I'm just excited on the NBA cup because I think this is a opportunity.
- [39:19]
Will Weir
For the Celtics chance to make some noise.
- [39:21]
Greg Menekis
Yeah. Make some. No, like have a little bit of fun and see what these guys do in in quote unquote big games, games that mean a little bit more so that you know, we'll, we have a podcast on Wednesday so we'll talk more about the Magic games. But yeah, I mean I'm excited for the NBA Cup.
- [39:38]
Will Weir
Love it. We will hit all of that. Join us Wednesday after Celtics Wizards. We'll be live on YouTube, live on Twitter. So make sure you're following us at all the appropriate spots at Green Envy pod and we will catch you guys after that game on Wednesday for now. Now let's cue it up and go to America's favorite segment. It's Mediocre Life update here on Green with Envy.
- [40:12]
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- [40:44]
Will Weir
Still figuring out the song. I I'm get, I'm getting it. I'm getting more.
- [40:47]
Greg Menekis
I thought you were going to get a song.
- [40:49]
Will Weir
I was. I. I've up on that. That hand up that. That's been on me. I'm. I'm just rolling with. With what our guy Alex put into the mix for us. So I'm gonna have some more free time coming up here by the end of this week, so I'll have more time to actually follow through on my promises. I've. I've been spraying out emp, just. Just to be honest.
- [41:10]
Greg Menekis
All right, Mediocre life updates.
- [41:12]
Will Weir
What you got for us?
- [41:13]
Greg Menekis
So Will and I, one of our best friends, Joe Higgins, he and his wife Erica came into town this weekend, so we actually got to go out San's Babies for a dinner on Saturday night. We ended up going to this place, this Mediterranean spot. I thought, first of all, vibes better than food. Your idea, your. Your thoughts?
- [41:35]
Will Weir
Thoughts. Oh, the food was pretty good.
- [41:40]
Greg Menekis
I.
- [41:40]
Will Weir
Would say, if I had to rank the two. I mean, I. Listen, we could have been eating, you know, cheeseburgers from, from Burger King. I was, I was already riding a high. Just like.
- [41:50]
Greg Menekis
Yeah.
- [41:50]
Will Weir
Hadn't been out in, in six months. One of our best friends who we haven't, you know, seen, like, literally my, you know, my baby was born during his wedding, like, you know, like. So it's, it's, it's. It's been a minute. So the vibes were so immaculate that you could have fed me anything. I would say they were pretty on par with one another.
- [42:07]
Greg Menekis
Disagree. Hard. Disagree. The. I think the vibes were unbelievable. We had. I think we had the best table in the entire restaurant. So, like, right there, right away, it was just great. Chicken shawarma, I thought was super average, which is like, a little disappointing for me. And then I just didn't get any of the fish. I didn't get any of the snapper. So all I had was, was the vegetables, the wagyu beef, like, portion size. I wish we could have just gotten more of that. Like, I thought.
- [42:36]
Will Weir
Yeah, okay, I'll give you that. The portions, because, like, the octopus I thought was great, but it was like one bite each, right? And that was like. And it was also like, kind of on the price point of like, I don't know if we need to pay 20 bucks each for two bites. You know what I mean? Like, it didn't. It didn't quite make sense. I wanted more of that. So I will give you that. The stuff that I did, like, probably not enough portion. The dips were really good. Good.
- [42:58]
Greg Menekis
The dips were Good. I. So I thought the, The. The dips, the appetizers were better than the entrees.
- [43:04]
Will Weir
Like, the scale of, like, where they started to where it ended. I'm with you. Like, that gradient scale. It went high and then kept sliding a little bit.
- [43:13]
Greg Menekis
So here's what I really want to talk about with that dinner, though. So we haven't been out, like, just as a group without kids in a while. This was my first time just, like, going out with friends for a dinner maybe since James was born, which is, you know, he's 16 months old, but it was three couples, two of which are newlyweds and, you know, just got back from a honeymoon, like, not too long ago. But, you know, they're. They're experiencing what it's like to actually be married, be living together, all that stuff. Will and I both have kids, and there was a lot of. Of couples, like, kind of making fun of the. The partners and like, finally having the space to air the grievances that they've been holding inside for a little bit. And I just found it so funny that, like, you could tell all the women had just been waiting to complain about us in this public space for. For quite some time, because there were some things that I thought I'd been doing great, and apparently I haven't been doing that good. So the mediocre life update. Are at this point in our lives, are group dinners just an excuse for women to complain about the men?
- [44:32]
Will Weir
I think they're just group therapy like that, like, to your point. I noticed this as well, too. It was kind of almost like we. We did a makeshift passing the rock. What do you got today? I don't know, man. I don't think my man knows how to dress. Like, that was kind of like what was happening around the table. I will say one thing I did notice that I. That I. I like that pointed out to. To my wife later is like, I forget. I forget what she was saying about me. But at different times, and some of. One of this might have been outside of the dinner, I was like, I appreciate my boys have my back where they're like, I don't know. I think this. And so I also appreciated that there was, you know, there. The inability to just gang up because there was a more diversified opinion pool. And like, you know, when you have six and it's three on three, or there's, you know, there's. There's opportunities, like, because if it's just me and you and in our. Our wife and fiance, like, if they agree, we're just like, all right, well, we're best friends. They're just gonna be like, of course you guys agree. Your opinions don't matter. You guys, you know, you guys are gonna say the same thing. And so we're like, cool. We're nullified. They. They win this one. It's two versus one, no matter what. Right now. When you add in another dynamic, all of a sudden it's like, okay, you guys don't just always have the upper hand. We have this group dynamic here. We've got a new energy in the mix. So, yeah, I thought in general, it just. It just felt like a group therapy.
- [45:50]
Greg Menekis
Session, which was good, but it was also good because you could tell there were certain things, like when Joe and Erica talked about how they got in the. The fight on. On their honeymoon or whatever, and then they were able to, like, laugh because we were. It was like, such good vibes, and everybody was just, like, laughing about all the stuff that. That bothers them. But in a very safe space where if those things were brought up, like, behind closed doors, maybe that leads to, like, a 10 to 45 minute fight, you know? You know, you never know. What, like, what'? But I. What I noticed with Danielle is she wasn't necessarily being, like, too vocal about my flaws, but whenever. Whenever Lorena and Erica were talking about Joe and you, she would always look at me and be like, yep, see, Told you. And she was, like, pointing at me, like, I told. Yeah. But then yesterday, here, I got a bone to pick with you, Lorena. So yesterday, when we show up at the. The food truck park, right? Lorraine is in sweatpants after talking all that about, like, all the guys wearing sweatpants or whatever. Like, how come she can just wear sweatpants and get away with it, but when we wear sweatpants, we get called out on that. Like, that's some man.
- [47:03]
Will Weir
They're stylish. I don't know. I. I'd give it. I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, she looked good.
- [47:08]
Greg Menekis
She looked good, but it's like I was like, see, I don't think I look any difference when I wear my sweatpants. And when you were your sweatpants. Why am I.
- [47:15]
Will Weir
This is gonna sound like I'm standing up for my wife here. It looks. It look different. I've seen the sweatpants you wear. It looks different. Why?
- [47:21]
Greg Menekis
No, I'm just saying in general, though, like, yeah, like, her sweatpants are just, like, normal red sweatpants. Like, I'm wearing blue joggers right now. And, like, as I was, like, going out, Danielle's like, you can't wear sweatpants. And I was like, all right, like, I won't wear sweats.
- [47:36]
Will Weir
That's the part where I just think you should just stood your ground. Because, like, I. I don't even ask. I just, like, like, especially for something like going anywhere in the daytime, basically at night, night, I do sometimes be like, is this appropriate? Like, I do actually have to, like, ask sometimes during the daytime that I'm independent. I will wear sweatpants if I want. I'll wear, you know, gym shorts, whatever. Like, it's the daytime. You can't tell me what to do. Once it gets to night time, we have to go places. Oh, yeah, fine. I can give you some jurisdiction, but in the daytime, that's my time. So that's. That's where you just gotta stay on your ground. Because I think yesterday, like, when we're at, like, a farmer's market at, like, you know, know, food trailers out there, there should be. There should be no judgment. I don't think. I don't think judgment should exist from any party in that. In that circumstance.
- [48:23]
Greg Menekis
Bone removed. I'm not picking a bone anymore. Not picking a bone anymore. But I did yesterday. I. I told you this. But this is more for the audience. So after we had this conversation at. At dinner about, like, you know, being out in public and being dressed appropriately for. For public spaces, I had to go pick up some coffee at this coffee shop here in Austin. And I was literally in sweatpants covered in, like, my. My son's drool and food debris. And I'm wearing this. This sweatshirt that's also covered in a bunch of food. And I'm just like, all right, I'm gonna be in and out. I'm just going to pick up some coffee and coming back. And as I walk in, I'm right behind this, like, Japanese group of super stylish young people. And they were all wearing, like, the best clothes possible, just, like, things you would see on Instagram or in magazines or whatever. And I'm standing right behind them. She's like, yeah, spokesman Fresh haircuts, like, all the. All the accoutrements you could want. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, man, I feel like a scrub right now. So I. I was like, I gotta say something. So I just told him. I was like, hey, I just gotta tell you guys, you all look so good. You look so great. Like, I'm so jealous of you. I'm here in my sweatpants, covered in my son's food debris. I Just want to let you know, you guys look awesome. And they were so excited to get that compliment.
- [49:40]
Will Weir
That's good vibes all around. See? And. And you weren't in the wrong either. You're going to pick up coffee during the morning. Like, there was. Those guys took it to the next level. And you know what? Good for them. They deserved a compliment. They get a compliment. But you also were not in the wrong either. So hold your head high with those sweatpants when you go pick up coffee. Coffee. That's what I say to you, brother.
- [49:56]
Greg Menekis
Maybe. Maybe you. You and Lorena, next time I go shopping for sweatpants, you guys can come with me. So you can tell me what?
- [50:03]
Will Weir
You don't need my influence. I would. I'm not helpful in that, Lorena. Yes. I wouldn't be helpful. I just don't care. That's. That's. That's my only superpower. Okay, I'll do a quick mediocre life update, and then we'll. We'll get out of here. So obviously this past weekend was Halloween. It was technically your second with James for, like, the first with him, like, like, you know, being a little bit. Bit older. Now he's walking my first with. With my daughter. And I'm not, you know, me. And I hate. I hate when people are just like, oh, you're so anti fun. It's like, I just like Halloween. I kind of just like, I'm like, whatever as an adult. Like, after, like, age maybe 25, 26, like, little post, like, once you get out of that, you know how like after college, then there's like, almost like four years of, like, you're an adult, but it's still like a post college life. You know what I mean? Like, it's not real life yet. Like, like that after that window, I've just kind of been like, Halloween, like, I'll go hang out, whatever. I'm gonna put the most minimal effort into, like, any costume. But being my daughter's first Halloween completely changed my feelings on. On all. Yeah, like, loved it. The vibe, the atmosphere. I'm so excited for next year already. Just, you know, being back because it was Halloween to me, and when I, like, felt like I'd kind of aged out of. It was like, okay, Halloween's for, like, high school and college kids to, you know, just, you know, do, you know, silly. And then it's also for kids. And I just kind of felt like I lost it for the last, like, 10 years or so where I was like, I just don't care. But, like, I also like being social, so. All right, let me, let me go out. And actually it's funny, me and my wife realized that we. This is the. We had never dressed up for Halloween together before until. Until this year. We've been together for.
- [51:41]
Greg Menekis
Never had a couple's costume.
- [51:43]
Will Weir
We've never had a couple's costume. Yeah, we were. I think the first year we were together I was home for like a family emergency, so we didn't spend it together then I think we had had like a, like a brief separation. So we weren't together during that. Then Covid and like basically since COVID it's been like five years of like eh. We just didn't like feel the need to, to do anything or didn't do anything crazy. So this was the first year we did so just a family of avocados hitting the streets together. And. And it was great, man. I. I loved it. I had so much fun. Even though like my daughter's six months and she was just like seeing how like interested she was and everything going on around like, it makes me so excited seeing that like, you know, James and even though he was feel pick just the pictures and the videos of how excited he was to be able to do that. He'll. Mariana will be somewhere around that similar age next year when we go and I'm just back. I'm back, I'm back, baby. Halloween. I'm back in all about it. So it feels good to be back after basically a 10 year hiatus of that day just being like not meaning anything. And now it's a staple of the calendar for the next 17 years. And that's, that's fine. Fun.
- [52:49]
Greg Menekis
It is really fun. Yeah. Halloween has this. I feel like it's a lot more for the parents than, than for the kids this early on.
- [52:55]
Will Weir
Right, right.
- [52:56]
Greg Menekis
We're just dressing them up in funny clothes and you know, you get the photo ops. Like James was Winnie the Pooh, I was Tiggered, Danielle was Piglet. And then Danielle's parents came to visit. So they were Christopher Robin and Owl, but they didn't tell us that they were bringing costumes, so I thought that was pretty cool of them. So we were able to take some family pictures, which, which was great.
- [53:16]
Will Weir
But.
- [53:17]
Greg Menekis
But on Halloween for me, like you mentioned, James was sick, but we were still out handing out candy. And what was funny was my neighbor across the street shout out to my guy Bernie, who I just met, even though I. I've been living across the street from him for three years. But he came over, he saw Us, like, posting up, handing out candy. He comes over and he's like, hey, man, I just wanted to, like, officially welcome you to the neighborhood. And I was like, brother, I've been here for three years. And he was like, really? Has it been that long? And then I was like, yeah, dude. So, like, what does that say about both of us, me and Bernie, that we just, like, didn' talk to each other for three years. But then he introduced me to my neighbors directly to his right, Anthony and Macy. And then James wanted to walk to a couple houses, and I met a couple people down the street, Jordan and Jordan and Jim. So it was. It was great for me because Halloween allowed me to actually meet some of my neighbors that I've just not talked to for three years to the point where they thought I had just moved in.
- [54:13]
Will Weir
Yeah, we're all too. I mean, like, it's. It's interesting because, like, I know, like, four neighbors on my street, the street, like, that's about it. And I've been here about the same issue.
- [54:21]
Greg Menekis
Oh, did you call animal control on that?
- [54:23]
Will Weir
No, I just. I decided not to. I decided if. I. If. Because so far he's. I have. The dogs haven't been out again yet. And so I'm gonna. I'm gonna give him an opportunity where to. To be better about whether it's fixing the fans or he mentioned bringing them to another house.
- [54:40]
Greg Menekis
Yeah.
- [54:40]
Will Weir
So I'm gonna give the opportunity for it, and then if I do see them out again, I'm gonna take that action. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna leave it. I'm gonna leave it as is for right now, But I got my eye out. I'm constantly watching that guy now.
- [54:51]
Greg Menekis
Good.
- [54:51]
Will Weir
That guy. Eye out for him. But, yeah, that's it. That's a better neighborhood experience than. Than I had a week ago. So let's end on a positive note. I think that's a good way for us to wrap up this episode here of green with envy. As a quick programming reminder, we are back Wednesday night following Celtics wizards. We will give you our thoughts on celtics jazz which is happening tonight. As of this recording. Celtics wizards Wednesday will record right after and also set up the magic over the weekend. That's gonna do it for today's episode. Appreciate you guys for locking in with us as always. This is what Will Weir. I'm running out of words here. Greg. This your boy, Will Weir. This is my guy, Greg Menekis. We will catch you later this week. Every time I get this, I hit the floor. Every time I hit this high it's you I find it don't take much no more until I'm at your door.
- [55:57]
Vivgard Hytrulo Announcer
I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hyrulo pre filled syringe which contains F gar, Tigamund Alpha and hyaluronic days qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgardmyway. Com, that's V Y V G A R T Myway. Com and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrulo. Brought to you by Argenics.