Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest – "The Two Travelers (Part I)"

Host: Adam Gidwitz
Date: November 13, 2025
Podcast: Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest
Theme: Gruesome Grimm fairy tales with a modern, interactive twist, retold for kids (and grown-ups) with humor, honesty, and hands-on participation.

Episode Overview

In this particularly “grimmest”-rated episode, Adam Gidwitz, accompanied by a lively classroom of kids, dives into the dark original version of the Brothers Grimm story "The Two Travelers." Through storytelling, spirited discussion, and kid-guided analysis, the episode examines themes of optimism vs. pessimism, preparedness vs. hope, and the moral ambiguity present in classic fairy tales—all punctuated with squeamish moments and bursts of youthful humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Tone: Grim, Grimmer, Grimmest

• [00:16–03:17]
  • Adam Gidwitz introduces himself, his passion for original grim tales, and sets expectations for the episode’s high “grimmest” content level: “It is frightening and upsetting and just bleach a lot of blood and stuff” (Adam, 00:22).
  • Adam offers safety suggestions for scared listeners (volume down, count to five).

2. Playful Banter – How Old Is Adam?

• [02:14–03:00]
  • Child participants quiz Adam on his age with comic guesses ("106?", "86?").
  • Adam playfully jokes about being “old” when correctly identified as turning 43.

3. Introducing "The Two Travelers"

• [03:00–03:35]
  • The story begins, breaking the fairy tale norm:
    “Hills and valleys never meet, but opposite people often do.”
  • The group explores the meaning, emphasizing how opposite personalities come together.

4. Character Contrast: Tailor vs. Shoemaker

• [03:44–06:46]
  • Tailor: Gentle, optimistic, resourceful.
  • Shoemaker: Grumpy, pessimistic, always over-prepared.
  • First moral contrast illustrated via food-sharing (cheese).
    • “Cause of the cheese. Would cheese make you change your mind too?” (Adam, 05:39)
  • Kids identify emotionally with sharing and food preferences.

5. Work and Attitude in Turin

• [06:47–07:21]
  • Tailor’s optimism earns him food/money despite lack of work, while the shoemaker’s negativity earns him nothing.
    • “Why did nobody help him?” (Adam, 06:56)
    • “Because he looked mean and he didn't look like he's friendly...” (Child, 06:56)

6. Half-Empty or Half-Full? – A Lesson in Perspectives

• [07:22–09:25]
  • At the tavern, tailor and shoemaker debate whether their drinks are “half full” or “half empty,” sparking a classic optimist vs. pessimist discussion.
    • “I'm happy to buy drinks, but these aren't half empty. They're half full.” (Tailor, 07:49)
  • Adam invites kids to share their takes—most opt for half-full, with some practical/logical commentary.

7. The Food Dilemma–Preparedness vs. Faith

• [09:26–11:18]
  • Debating how much food to bring through the forest:
    • Shoemaker: Wants a surplus, “just in case.”
    • Tailor: Brings only a little, trusting in good luck.
    • Children offer clever, “optimist-but-not-reckless” solutions (bring five days, ration, etc.).
    • “It's not good to be the most optimistic ... but if you're too pessimistic, you never do anything fun. So you have to be safely optimistic.” (Child, 11:18)

8. Forest Journey: Mood and Coping Styles

• [11:52–12:44]
  • Shoemaker hauls heavy pack, remains sour.
  • Tailor sings and tells jokes. Kids join in with jokes of their own:
    • “Do you want to hear the joke about a pencil?”
    • “Nah, it’s pointless.” (Child, 12:39)

9. The Gruesome Turn

• [16:12–21:14]
  • Travelers get lost. Tailor, optimistic but under-prepared, starves while the shoemaker eats.
  • Shoemaker refuses to share food, referencing "The Ant and the Grasshopper."
    • “The ant collects food all summer and feasts in winter..." (Shoemaker, 17:16)
  • Shoemaker’s price for food: the Tailor must sacrifice an eye for food each time he begs (first right, then left).
    • “I'll give you some food if you let me put out your right eye.” (Shoemaker, 18:37)
    • “That's too harsh. I have a question. Is this appropriate?” (Child, 19:58)
    • Adam, tongue-in-cheek: “No. None of these fairy tales are appropriate.” (Adam, 20:03)

10. Deserted & Despaired Under the Gallows

• [21:38–23:15]
  • Now blind, the tailor is abandoned under gallows with hanged corpses.
  • Two dead men (named Fred and Bob by the kids) awaken and converse with the tailor.

11. Gory Restoration: The Eyes of the Dead

• [23:27–28:17]
  • The dead offer their eyes to the tailor—kids join in to mimic grisly eye-plopping sounds.
    • “Now pluck out one of my eyes.” (Shoemaker/Fred, 25:09)
    • “What? Definitely not the sound it would make. Oh, that was gross.” (Adam, 25:52)
  • Tailor’s vision restored (now possibly with dual worldviews); children discuss metaphor of “seeing through another’s eyes.”
    • “I feel like their eyes each had, like, their, like, personality…” (Child, 28:08)
    • "But it's a fairy tale or a metaphor." (Adam, 29:12)

12. A Shocking Cliffhanger

• [29:39–30:33]
  • Tailor finds his way to Mantua, enters a tavern—and sees everyone inside is dead.
  • “He saw the most horrifying sight he had ever seen ... everyone was dead.” (Adam, 30:25)
  • Episode ends on a suspenseful "To Be Continued..."

13. Reflection & Meta-Discussion

• [30:44–31:40]
  • Kids protest the cliffhanger; Adam grins, explaining, “Scaring children, it's like my favorite thing to do.”
  • Balancing thrill with care: “I try to take care of you and I try to scare you ... because I know that you guys like to laugh, but also many of you like to be scared as long as you know that you're not actually in danger. Right?” (Adam, 31:15–31:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Adam’s Spookiness Warning:
  “On a scale of grim, Grimmer and Grimmest, this episode is grimmest. It is frightening and upsetting and just bleach a lot of blood and stuff.” (00:22)

• Child’s Practical Wisdom:
  “It's not good to be the most optimistic person in the world because ... but if you're like, too pessimistic, then you're like, never ... You're never gonna get a chance to do anything fun. So you have to, like, be safely optimistic.” (11:18)

• Kids’ Jokes Lightening the Mood:

  • “Do you want to hear the joke about a pencil?” – “Nah, it's pointless.” (12:39)
  • “Will I remember you in a day? ... Knock, knock. – Who's there? – You didn't remember me.” (12:57–13:10)

• Shoemaker’s Harsh Lesson:
  “The ant collects food all summer and feasts in winter. The grasshopper sings all summer and when winter comes, he starves. I guess you should have been prepared.” (17:16)

• The Most Gruesome Bargain:
  “I'll give you some food if you let me put out your right eye.” (18:37)

• Child Questions Appropriateness:
  “That's too harsh. I have a question. Is this appropriate?” (19:58)
  “No. None of these fairy tales are appropriate. Haven’t you gotten that through your head by now?” (Adam, 20:03)

• Metaphor for Perspective:
  “I feel like their eyes each had, like, their, like, personality or like, what happened to them before they died.” (28:08)

• Adam on Storytelling:
  “I try to take care of you and I try to scare you. ... Many of you like to be scared as long as you know that you're not actually in danger.” (31:15–31:40)

Important Timestamps & Segment Highlights

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:16–03:17 | Adam’s introduction, episode’s “grimmest” content, safety warning | | 03:19–04:51 | Story beginning: proverb, introduction of tailor & shoemaker | | 06:46–07:21 | Kids analyze character outcomes in Turin | | 07:22–09:25 | Half-full/half-empty debate | | 09:26–11:18 | Food prepping, kids discuss optimism/realism | | 12:35–13:10 | Kid-led joke session | | 16:12–17:45 | Lost in forest, shoemaker refuses to share | | 18:02–20:03 | Shoemaker’s tooth-for-an-eye bargain & consequences | | 23:27–28:17 | The grisly “eye exchange” with the dead—kids join in sound effects | | 29:39–30:33 | Cliffhanger ending (dead-filled tavern) | | 30:44–31:40 | Adam discusses why he both scares & cares for the kids audience|

Conclusion

This episode fuses classic darkness with lively modern humor, using the tale of "The Two Travelers" to spark real conversations about optimism, pessimism, and empathy. Through playful banter, moral quandaries, and an unforgettable cliffhanger, listeners are left both entertained and eager (if slightly unnerved) for part II.

Final cliffhanger:
“He saw the most horrifying sight he had ever seen. ... Everyone was dead.” (30:25)
“...and we're out of time for today.” (30:27)