The Two Travelers (Part l)

Summary

Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest – "The Two Travelers (Part I)"

Host: Adam Gidwitz
Date: November 13, 2025
Podcast: Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest
Theme: Gruesome Grimm fairy tales with a modern, interactive twist, retold for kids (and grown-ups) with humor, honesty, and hands-on participation.

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Episode Overview

In this particularly “grimmest”-rated episode, Adam Gidwitz, accompanied by a lively classroom of kids, dives into the dark original version of the Brothers Grimm story "The Two Travelers." Through storytelling, spirited discussion, and kid-guided analysis, the episode examines themes of optimism vs. pessimism, preparedness vs. hope, and the moral ambiguity present in classic fairy tales—all punctuated with squeamish moments and bursts of youthful humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Tone: Grim, Grimmer, Grimmest

• [00:16–03:17]
  • Adam Gidwitz introduces himself, his passion for original grim tales, and sets expectations for the episode’s high “grimmest” content level: “It is frightening and upsetting and just bleach a lot of blood and stuff” (Adam, 00:22).
  • Adam offers safety suggestions for scared listeners (volume down, count to five).

2. Playful Banter – How Old Is Adam?

• [02:14–03:00]
  • Child participants quiz Adam on his age with comic guesses ("106?", "86?").
  • Adam playfully jokes about being “old” when correctly identified as turning 43.

3. Introducing "The Two Travelers"

• [03:00–03:35]
  • The story begins, breaking the fairy tale norm:
    “Hills and valleys never meet, but opposite people often do.”
  • The group explores the meaning, emphasizing how opposite personalities come together.

4. Character Contrast: Tailor vs. Shoemaker

• [03:44–06:46]
  • Tailor: Gentle, optimistic, resourceful.
  • Shoemaker: Grumpy, pessimistic, always over-prepared.
  • First moral contrast illustrated via food-sharing (cheese).
    • “Cause of the cheese. Would cheese make you change your mind too?” (Adam, 05:39)
  • Kids identify emotionally with sharing and food preferences.

5. Work and Attitude in Turin

• [06:47–07:21]
  • Tailor’s optimism earns him food/money despite lack of work, while the shoemaker’s negativity earns him nothing.
    • “Why did nobody help him?” (Adam, 06:56)
    • “Because he looked mean and he didn't look like he's friendly...” (Child, 06:56)

6. Half-Empty or Half-Full? – A Lesson in Perspectives

• [07:22–09:25]
  • At the tavern, tailor and shoemaker debate whether their drinks are “half full” or “half empty,” sparking a classic optimist vs. pessimist discussion.
    • “I'm happy to buy drinks, but these aren't half empty. They're half full.” (Tailor, 07:49)
  • Adam invites kids to share their takes—most opt for half-full, with some practical/logical commentary.

7. The Food Dilemma–Preparedness vs. Faith

• [09:26–11:18]
  • Debating how much food to bring through the forest:
    • Shoemaker: Wants a surplus, “just in case.”
    • Tailor: Brings only a little, trusting in good luck.
    • Children offer clever, “optimist-but-not-reckless” solutions (bring five days, ration, etc.).
    • “It's not good to be the most optimistic ... but if you're too pessimistic, you never do anything fun. So you have to be safely optimistic.” (Child, 11:18)

8. Forest Journey: Mood and Coping Styles

• [11:52–12:44]
  • Shoemaker hauls heavy pack, remains sour.
  • Tailor sings and tells jokes. Kids join in with jokes of their own:
    • “Do you want to hear the joke about a pencil?”
    • “Nah, it’s pointless.” (Child, 12:39)

9. The Gruesome Turn

• [16:12–21:14]
  • Travelers get lost. Tailor, optimistic but under-prepared, starves while the shoemaker eats.
  • Shoemaker refuses to share food, referencing "The Ant and the Grasshopper."
    • “The ant collects food all summer and feasts in winter..." (Shoemaker, 17:16)
  • Shoemaker’s price for food: the Tailor must sacrifice an eye for food each time he begs (first right, then left).
    • “I'll give you some food if you let me put out your right eye.” (Shoemaker, 18:37)
    • “That's too harsh. I have a question. Is this appropriate?” (Child, 19:58)
    • Adam, tongue-in-cheek: “No. None of these fairy tales are appropriate.” (Adam, 20:03)

10. Deserted & Despaired Under the Gallows

• [21:38–23:15]
  • Now blind, the tailor is abandoned under gallows with hanged corpses.
  • Two dead men (named Fred and Bob by the kids) awaken and converse with the tailor.

11. Gory Restoration: The Eyes of the Dead

• [23:27–28:17]
  • The dead offer their eyes to the tailor—kids join in to mimic grisly eye-plopping sounds.
    • “Now pluck out one of my eyes.” (Shoemaker/Fred, 25:09)
    • “What? Definitely not the sound it would make. Oh, that was gross.” (Adam, 25:52)
  • Tailor’s vision restored (now possibly with dual worldviews); children discuss metaphor of “seeing through another’s eyes.”
    • “I feel like their eyes each had, like, their, like, personality…” (Child, 28:08)
    • "But it's a fairy tale or a metaphor." (Adam, 29:12)

12. A Shocking Cliffhanger

• [29:39–30:33]
  • Tailor finds his way to Mantua, enters a tavern—and sees everyone inside is dead.
  • “He saw the most horrifying sight he had ever seen ... everyone was dead.” (Adam, 30:25)
  • Episode ends on a suspenseful "To Be Continued..."

13. Reflection & Meta-Discussion

• [30:44–31:40]
  • Kids protest the cliffhanger; Adam grins, explaining, “Scaring children, it's like my favorite thing to do.”
  • Balancing thrill with care: “I try to take care of you and I try to scare you ... because I know that you guys like to laugh, but also many of you like to be scared as long as you know that you're not actually in danger. Right?” (Adam, 31:15–31:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Adam’s Spookiness Warning:
  “On a scale of grim, Grimmer and Grimmest, this episode is grimmest. It is frightening and upsetting and just bleach a lot of blood and stuff.” (00:22)

• Child’s Practical Wisdom:
  “It's not good to be the most optimistic person in the world because ... but if you're like, too pessimistic, then you're like, never ... You're never gonna get a chance to do anything fun. So you have to, like, be safely optimistic.” (11:18)

• Kids’ Jokes Lightening the Mood:

  • “Do you want to hear the joke about a pencil?” – “Nah, it's pointless.” (12:39)
  • “Will I remember you in a day? ... Knock, knock. – Who's there? – You didn't remember me.” (12:57–13:10)

• Shoemaker’s Harsh Lesson:
  “The ant collects food all summer and feasts in winter. The grasshopper sings all summer and when winter comes, he starves. I guess you should have been prepared.” (17:16)

• The Most Gruesome Bargain:
  “I'll give you some food if you let me put out your right eye.” (18:37)

• Child Questions Appropriateness:
  “That's too harsh. I have a question. Is this appropriate?” (19:58)
  “No. None of these fairy tales are appropriate. Haven’t you gotten that through your head by now?” (Adam, 20:03)

• Metaphor for Perspective:
  “I feel like their eyes each had, like, their, like, personality or like, what happened to them before they died.” (28:08)

• Adam on Storytelling:
  “I try to take care of you and I try to scare you. ... Many of you like to be scared as long as you know that you're not actually in danger.” (31:15–31:40)

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Important Timestamps & Segment Highlights

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:16–03:17 | Adam’s introduction, episode’s “grimmest” content, safety warning | | 03:19–04:51 | Story beginning: proverb, introduction of tailor & shoemaker | | 06:46–07:21 | Kids analyze character outcomes in Turin | | 07:22–09:25 | Half-full/half-empty debate | | 09:26–11:18 | Food prepping, kids discuss optimism/realism | | 12:35–13:10 | Kid-led joke session | | 16:12–17:45 | Lost in forest, shoemaker refuses to share | | 18:02–20:03 | Shoemaker’s tooth-for-an-eye bargain & consequences | | 23:27–28:17 | The grisly “eye exchange” with the dead—kids join in sound effects | | 29:39–30:33 | Cliffhanger ending (dead-filled tavern) | | 30:44–31:40 | Adam discusses why he both scares & cares for the kids audience|

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Conclusion

This episode fuses classic darkness with lively modern humor, using the tale of "The Two Travelers" to spark real conversations about optimism, pessimism, and empathy. Through playful banter, moral quandaries, and an unforgettable cliffhanger, listeners are left both entertained and eager (if slightly unnerved) for part II.

Final cliffhanger:
“He saw the most horrifying sight he had ever seen. ... Everyone was dead.” (30:25)
“...and we're out of time for today.” (30:27)

Transcript

[Child Participant]

Pinna.

[Mindy (Wow in the World Host)]

Pinna.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Hi. My name is Adam Gidwitz. I'm an author. I'm also a storyteller. I like telling all kinds of stories, but I especially like telling grim fairy tales. You may think you know Grimm fairy tales, and you may think that they are sweet and boring, but listen, those tales you heard were the cute, happy little kid bedtime versions of the Grimm tales. The original Grimm fairy tales aren't like that at all. They're weird and sometimes gross and often scary. In other words, they're grim. And I'm about to walk into a classroom and tell one of the original grim, grim tales to a bunch of kids. Do you want to join me? Do you want to hear a grim fairy tale? Let me help you decide. On a scale of grim, Grimmer and Grimmest, this episode is grimmest. It is frightening and upsetting and just bleach a lot of blood and stuff. If I get to a part of the story and you start to feel scared or uncomfortable, this is what you could do. You could turn down the volume and count to five. Then turn the volume back up. If it still seems like a part you don't want to hear, just turn the volume down and count to five again. You know how much weird and gross and scary you're ready for? You know what you need? Okay, I'm at the classroom door now. There are kids inside waiting to hear a grim fairy tale. So are you coming in? Grim Grimmer, Grimace.

[Child Participant]

So how old are you?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

You are asking how old I am?

[Child Participant]

Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

How old do you think I am?

[Child Participant]

106?

[Shoemaker (Character)]

What?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

That is the most insulting thing I've ever heard.

[Child Participant]

I know.

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

I don't.

[Child Participant]

30 or 40 something.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

30 or 40 something is a good guess.

[Child Participant]

86.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

86.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Have you ever met an 86 year old?

[Child Participant]

Um, 48.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Much closer.

[Child Participant]

43.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Exactly right? Actually, no. I am turning 43 on Friday. In two days.

[Child Participant]

Oh, you're old.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Thanks. This story is from the Brothers Grimm and it is called Two Travelers. Most of these stories start with once upon a time, or once there was. But this one starts differently.

[Child Participant]

How does it start?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Hills and valleys never meet, but opposite people often do.

[Child Participant]

Fairy tales usually always start with once upon a time. The girl and the boy run to.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The couch, but this one doesn't. So what does it mean? Hills and valleys never meet. What does that mean?

[Child Participant]

It's kind of like you can't have like a valley which is like carved into the earth, and a hill is the opposite.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

You can't have them in the same place.

[Child Participant]

Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Exactly. But opposite people can be in the same place. And this is just such a story. Hills and valleys never meet, but opposite people often do. And so it came to pass that one day. A tailor was walking down a long road. When a shoemaker joined his path in the same direction. This tailor was an easygoing fellow who always saw the bright side of things. And so he waved to the shoemaker, expecting to make friends right away.

[Tailor (Character)]

That's quite a large pack there.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

He said to the shoemaker. Now, the shoemaker was not an easy going fellow. He grunted and said, gotta be prepared, don't you?

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Heavy boots for rain. Wide brimmed hat for the sun. Thick jacket for the cold. The world is a scary place, and you must be prepared.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

But the tailor replied, I don't see.

[Tailor (Character)]

It that way at all. When it's cold, I walk on the sunny side of the road. When it's hot, I walk in the shade. And when it rains, I stop in somewhere for a cup of ale.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The shoemaker rolled his eyes. The tailor asked, where are you headed anyway? The shoemaker growled.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

To Turin, the next big city down the road. To sell shoes.

[Tailor (Character)]

What a coincidence. I'm going to Turin too, to mend clothes. Shall we walk together?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The shoemaker didn't much fancy the idea of walking with the tailor. Traveling with a happy go lucky optimist like the tailor. Was certain to get him in trouble, he thought. But when? When the tailor took out a cold flask of water. And a piece of good cheese. And offered them to the shoemaker. The shoemaker decided it wouldn't be so bad to travel with him after all. Why did the shoemaker change his mind?

[Child Participant]

Because of cheese.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Cause of the cheese. Would cheese make you change your mind too? Yeah. Yeah, me too. I'm definitely cheese. Not me. Nah, you're not a cheese person.

[Child Participant]

I'm a junk food person.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

So maybe had they taken out, like a pack of Frito Lays. Or maybe some like.

[Child Participant]

I like things with chocolate. Chocolate or sugar?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Take it out. Some chocolate or sugar. They soon came to Torun. A large town with many shoemakers and tailors. The two men decided to split up for the day. To see if they could find work with one of the more established men or women of their profession. They promised to meet again that night at a tavern in the center of the city. The tailor went from one tailor shop to the next, offering his services. And while no one needed extra help at the moment. The the tailor was so open and friendly. That everyone offered him a little money or food. And told him to come back anytime. The shoemaker went from one shoemaker's shop to the next. But he always walked in with such a scowl on his face and was always so certain that no one would want to hire him that no one did. And no one offered him a single penny or a bite of bread either.

[Child Participant]

What's a scowl?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

A scowl is a frown. Sad face. Can you understand why nobody gave the shoemaker any work and nobody helped him? Why did nobody help him?

[Child Participant]

Because he looked mean and he didn't look like he's friendly and wants to share anything with people.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Exactly right. That evening, the shoemaker and the tailor met at the tavern. As they had agreed, the tailor was in high spirits. But the shoemaker was as grumpy as he'd ever been. And when he heard how everyone had offered the tailor money and food, he was even grumpier.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

The bigger the rascal, the better the luck, he grumbled.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

But the tailor was happy to buy the shoemaker drinks and pay for their meals, which cheered the shoemaker up a little. They'd had a few rounds of drinks when a disagreement sprang up. They had each drunk about half of their cups of ale. The shoemaker said, don't you think you.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Should go get another drink for us? These cups are half empty.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor couldn't believe his ears.

[Tailor (Character)]

I'm happy to buy drinks for us all night, but these aren't half empty. They're half full.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

You're mad. Look at all that empty space at the top of the cup.

[Tailor (Character)]

I'm sorry, my friend, but you're the mad one. Look how much ale is left in the bottom of the cup.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

They gazed at each other, shaking their heads, unable to understand how the other one saw the world. Question for you all. When you have drunk half of your cup of, let's say, juice, do you think it's half empty or half full?

[Child Participant]

I don't. I just wouldn't fight about this.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

You think it's a silly thing to fight about. I get that.

[Child Participant]

I think it's half full because if you drink half of it, there's still a half on the bottom.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

So you are often described as an optimist. An optimist sees the sunny side of things, the happier side of things. So you're like, it's still half full.

[Child Participant]

I think that the shoemaker, I think he. Like, he drunk half a lot of it, and he said, it's half empty. But the knitting guy, he only drunk half, just a little bit of it. So it's half full for him.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

No, but actually the Point is, they have the same amount in the glass. They just see it differently. One person sees it as half empty, the other person sees it as half full. One's an optimist, and the word for the other one is a pessimist. Someone who's like, things are gonna turn out badly for me.

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

Oh.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The next day they decided to depart from Torun, for there was no work there. But before they left, the shoemaker asked to borrow some money to buy some extra food.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

The wood we're coming to has two paths through it. One path takes only two days, but the other takes seven days. We may get lost and end up on the longer path.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor said, why wouldn't we be.

[Tailor (Character)]

Able to find the right path? Don't be such a worrier. I've got more than enough food for two days.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The shoemaker said, don't be a fool.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

If we end up on the seven day path, two days worth of food will leave us starving. Lend me some money so I can get enough food for seven days, just in case.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor scoffed, ta.

[Tailor (Character)]

Here, take the money. But I don't want to lug around a huge pack like you. Two days food will be enough. So that's all I'm bringing.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

And the shoemaker said, suit yourself, but.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

I think you're being foolish and I.

[Tailor (Character)]

Think you need to relax a little.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Retorted the tailor, so here's my question. Which would you do if you're a cup half full person? Would you only bring two days of food? Or what?

[Mindy (Wow in the World Host)]

You're gonna eat it anyway.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

So what?

[Child Participant]

So you might as well bring seven, because also you're gonna have to buy the food to eat it somehow.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yeah. Though he doesn't want to schlep, like lug seven days worth of food. It's so heavy.

[Child Participant]

Then bring five days of food and you can ration it if you really.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

So you might be an optimist, but you're not gonna just be reckless.

[Child Participant]

Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Interesting.

[Child Participant]

I would bring three days of food.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

That seventh day, you might be pretty hungry.

[Child Participant]

I would bring seventh day food because you always have to get ready. Just like you said in the first part. What I'm gonna say is I feel like it's not good to be the most optimistic person in the world because you're like, oh, if I run straight at this cliff, I'm definitely not gonna die. But then if you're like. But if you're like, too pessimistic, then you're like, never. You're never gonna get a chance to do anything fun. So you have to, like, be safely optimistic. That's how you should probably do it.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Once the shoemaker had loaded up his pack with food, the two travelers set out in into the forest. The forest was still as a church. Not a breeze stirred, not a brook murmured, not a bird sang, and not a ray of sunshine found its way through the dense leaves. The shoemaker didn't say a word, and sweat poured down the sides of his sulky, peevish face as he heaved his heavy pack down the trail. The tailor, on the other hand, had a light pack and a cheerful demeanor. He sang and picked flowers and told jokes. Who has a good joke that the tailor could tell?

[Child Participant]

Um, do you want to hear the joke about a pencil?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yes.

[Child Participant]

Nah, it's pointless.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

I like it.

[Child Participant]

What happens when you lose 25% of your roof?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

25% of what?

[Child Participant]

Your roof.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

What?

[Child Participant]

Oof. Will you remember me in a day?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Will I remember you in a day? Yes.

[Child Participant]

Will you remember me in a month?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yes.

[Child Participant]

A year?

[Mindy (Wow in the World Host)]

Maybe.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

I don't know.

[Child Participant]

Maybe a year?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yes.

[Child Participant]

Knock, knock.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Who's there?

[Child Participant]

You didn't remember me.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Okay, I like it.

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[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Well, the shoemaker got more and more annoyed as the tailor carried on in this way. The first day passed, and the second day too. But when the third day came and they were still not out of the woods, the shoemaker said, it looks like.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

We'Re on the wrong path.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

And the tailor, a little nervously, had to agree that indeed it did. That night, the tailor went to bed with an empty stomach while the shoemaker ate his meal and licked his fingers. When he was done on the fourth day, the tailor was dragging himself through the forest. When the shoemaker stopped to eat, the tailor asked him for a piece of bread. What do you think the shoemaker will say? Car?

[Child Participant]

I think no. You think he says no? If he does say no, it's probably gonna be a wrong decision. Cause on the first day, the tailor gave him a piece of bread and some water.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

So totally he should give it right? He should share. The shoemaker said to the tailor.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

The ant collects food all summer and feasts in winter. The grasshopper sings all summer and when winter comes, he starves. I guess you should have been prepared.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

On the fifth day, the tailor collapsed beneath the tree, unable to go any further. He begged the shoemaker, My friend, I.

[Tailor (Character)]

Shared my food and drink with you when we were in Turin. Please share some bread with me.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The shoemaker looked at the tailor, who was once so optimistic and easygoing and now who looked so miserable. The tailor's face was pale and sunken, and his eyes were shot through with blood red veins.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

You want some bread?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Said the shoemaker.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

All right.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Thank you, gasped the tailor. Then the shoemaker added, but okay, this is the terrible part. Okay? So if you feel upset or scared, you can put your fingers like this, you can close your ears, and you can wait until the scary part is over.

[Child Participant]

I'm just gonna go in the hallway.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

You would like to go take a break?

[Child Participant]

Yeah. While another person waits by the door and then tells me when the scary bit's over.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

That's okay. Go ahead. Wait.

[Child Participant]

I actually want to hear it.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Okay. The shoemaker said, I'll give you some.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Food if you let me put out your right eye.

[Child Participant]

What's interesting. Honestly, I just. If I were the guy, I'd be like, I would like to keep my eye. Thank you, you freak. And then I'd run away, and then I'd run, and then I'd run as fast as I could when he's about to starve. I know. Why does he want an eye? Is he gonna do anything with an eye? What?

[Tailor (Character)]

Why would you want to do that?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor cried. The shoemaker answered, so you remember that.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Life isn't all fun and games. Sometimes you must suffer to get what you need.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Okay, now there's a really messed up line from the original Grimm tale. I'm gonna share it with you, but if you don't want to hear it, close your ears. For the last time. The tailor wept with both of his eyes. And then the shoemaker put out his right eye and gave him some food. Ugh. I'm sorry.

[Child Participant]

I'm still asking the same question. Why does he need an eye? Why?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

He doesn't need the eye. He's trying to teach the tailor a lesson about being prepared.

[Child Participant]

That's too harsh. I have a question. Is this appropriate?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

No. None of these fairy tales are appropriate. Haven't you gotten that through your head by now? None of this is appropriate. The tailor ate the food, but it didn't taste good. They walked on, and by the sixth day, the tailor again began to feel so weak, he thought he might die. On the morning of the seventh day, the tailor was too hungry to stand. He could feel death breathing on his neck. He begged the shoemaker, please, my friend.

[Tailor (Character)]

Let me have some More food?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Of course, said the shoemaker. And then he said, what do you think?

[Child Participant]

Give me your eye.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The shoemaker said.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

I'll let you have some food if you let me have your other eye.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor wept again.

[Tailor (Character)]

I won't be able to work as a tailor anymore. I will be a poor, blind beggar.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The shoemaker smugly replied.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

You should have thought of that when you decided you didn't want to carry all that food.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor wanted to refuse. But death's icy hand was hovering over his heart. Still, the tailor had learned a lesson from the shoemaker. He needed not to be so trusting and to think ahead a little. So he said, you must swear you.

[Tailor (Character)]

Will not leave me in this forest once I am blind. But lead me out to the other side.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The shoemaker agreed. Then he put out the tailor's other eye, gave him some bread. And found him a walking stick in the woods. So I know you guys are kind of upset right now. Don't worry. Things will get better. I promise. Okay? The shoemaker led the tailor down the path. And by nightfall they had come out of the forest. At the edge of the forest stood a gallows. You guys know what a gallows is? Who can tell me what a gallows is?

[Child Participant]

It's basically a hanging station, like when you play hangman. It's a sad thing. And the rope is called a noose.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Exactly. Two dead men hung from the gallows. The shoemaker said.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

There's two men hanging here to keep you company. Maybe they'll teach you not to be so foolish.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

And he left the tailor under the gallows. And went on to the nearest town, which was called Mantua. The tailor sat down in despair below the dead men's feet. What was he to do? He was now blind and starving. He hoped that someone would find him and help him into town. Where he might beg for food. Otherwise, he would soon starve below these two corpses. And join them in the shadowy land of death.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Hey there.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

A voice called the tailor was startled.

[Tailor (Character)]

Who's that up here? Up where?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Asked the tailor.

[Tailor (Character)]

I'm blind and I can't see you.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Hanging above your head, said the voice.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Who was it?

[Child Participant]

Um. The people who were hung by the neck?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yeah. They were the dead. The dead guys? Yeah.

[Child Participant]

But how were they. But how can they talk if they're dead?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Let's find out. That's right. One of the dead guys was speaking to him. Which was surprising. Not just to the tailor, but also to the dead guys.

[Tailor (Character)]

How can you talk to him?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Said the other dead guy. He's not dead like us.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Not yet. But he's got one foot in the shadowy land of death and the other foot in the bright land of life. So I guess that's why we can talk to him.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Okay, so I can't keep calling these guys Dead Guy and the Other Dead Guy, so we have to give them names. Would anyone like to make a suggestion? You guys are all so excited to name the dead people. Hold on, Fred.

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

Fred.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Okay. One of them will be called Fred.

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

Bob.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Bob. And the other one. Bob. Great. Okay. Fred asked the tailor, what's your story then?

[Shoemaker (Character)]

You got no eyes and blood all over your face.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

So the tailor told him his whole sad story. When he was done, Bob said, well, you could have our eyes. And Fred said, aye, good idea.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

We don't need them anymore.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor said, that's a really nice.

[Tailor (Character)]

Offer, but it doesn't work like that. I can't just put someone else's eyes in my head and see again.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Are you sure?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Said Fred. Can't hurt to try, said Bob. The tailor figured that was true, so he agreed.

[Child Participant]

If he does that, he's gonna have dead eyes.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Fred said, right.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Stand up and reach out till you find my legs.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor did as the corpse directed him.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

That way. Okay, almost.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Good.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Now run your hands up my body till you find my face.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor did that too, but it made him shiver to touch a corpse swinging from a gallows like that.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Warmer, Warmer. Oh great. Now pluck out one of my eyes.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

This was the worst and most disgusting thing yet. But the tailor made himself do it.

[Shoemaker (Character)]

Wow, that felt weird. Alright, now put it in your eye socket.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor did it. Made a sound like. Who can make a sound like an eyeball being put in a socket? One at a time, please. One at a time.

[Child Participant]

Pop.

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

Plop.

[Child Participant]

Nom nom nom.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

What? Definitely not the sound it would make. Oh, that was gross. That was good.

[Child Participant]

The most realistic one ever.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yeah, lovely, lovely. Uh huh. I was gonna go anyway. All right. Can we all do. All you all do your own eye popping into the socket at the same time? 1, 2, 3.

[Child Participant]

Nom nom nom.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

What is nom nom nom? Okay, as soon as the eye was in the tailor's head, he could see again. The twilight was beautiful, the evening was fine. He was gonna be alright. Hey, said Bob, don't you want one of my eyes now?

[Child Participant]

Oh no.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Oh no.

[Tailor (Character)]

One eye is probably enough, said the.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Tailor, who wasn't too keen on going through the whole disgusting process again. Well, that's not Fair. I wanted to help too. I was a bad man in life, and I'm certain I'm bound for eternal torment in the afterlife. Giving you my eye might be my last chance to help someone and save myself.

[Child Participant]

I think one eye's gonna be bad, and one eye's gonna be good.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Very interesting. Well, despite everything he'd been through, the tailor was a kind man. So he stood up, reached up to Bob's face and plucked out one of his eyes. Then he put it into his right eye socket. Make the sound. The tailor closed his left eye so he could test out the new eyeball. As he looked through his right eye, he suddenly felt afraid. He was out in the wilderness, standing under a gallows, and he was starving to death. How would he find a town? Would he get food before he died? Why did everything look so scary? He closed his right eye and opened his left again. What was he so worried about? The night was clear and fine. The town was surely not too far away. If they'd put the gallows here. Now that he could see again, he could resume his work as a tailor. Everything was fine.

[Child Participant]

I feel like their eyes each had, like, their, like, personality or like, what happened to them before they died.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Interesting. Do you want to add to that or explain what?

[Child Participant]

Yeah, it's the same as the tailor and the shoemaker. One of them, Fred, was optimistic, whereas Bob was pessimistic.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Very interesting.

[Child Participant]

I think maybe since he thought that the shoemaker was always really pessimistic and he's like, oh, so annoying. He's always pessimistic. Maybe he can see through his eyes and see how he sees the world and maybe feel better for him. Also, the saying, see through someone else's.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Eyes, I don't know that literally sees through somebody else's eyes. So interesting.

[Child Participant]

But the thing that your point of view would change by you having someone else's eye, that logic just doesn't work because your eye. Your eye basically just sends the signal to your brain to think what you see. But it's a fairy tale.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

But it's a fairy tale or a metaphor. You know what I mean?

[Child Participant]

Of you. That's clever because, like, you.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yeah, I know your point of view.

[Child Participant]

That is clever also, I think because he's optimistic and pessimistic, he won't be too optimistic and he won't, like. It's like, I'm gonna run off the hill and I won't die. And he won't be like, I just will never do it. But he's gonna be careful. And be smarter.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

The tailor opened both eyes again. And he remembered his hunger and how close he was to death. But he also felt confident that he could make it to town and buy some food before he fell down and expired from hunger. So he thanked the two corpses and continued on his way. It was midnight when he arrived in the city of Mantua. The streets were empty, but he wandered around until he found a tavern that was still open. He went inside and he stopped. He saw the most horrifying sight he had ever seen. He looked around him. His skin crawled. He wanted to turn and flee. Everyone was dead.

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

What?

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

And we're out of time for today. What? We'll have to find out next time.

[Child Participant]

Thank you. No, tell us. Tell us.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yes, tell us. I'll tell you and explain everything next time.

[Child Participant]

Yeah, that would happen. It always.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Wait.

[Child Participant]

What happens in the first story when you. When there was like, that door or something, and then it created. And then you. And then you scram and then he.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

And then you always jump?

[Child Participant]

Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yes. Well, scaring you is one of the things that brings me joy in life. Scaring children, it's like my favorite thing to do.

[Child Participant]

Why did you say that you like scaring us, but you also like.

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

Like.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

I also like.

[Child Participant]

You also like, protect us.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Yes, exactly Right? I try to take care of you and I try to scare you. Why do I do both of them? Do you have an answer to that question?

[Child Participant]

No.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Do you have an answer to that question?

[Child Participant]

You don't want to get sued by your parents?

[Shoemaker (Character)]

No.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Not just because I don't want to get sued by your parents, but yes, I do not want to get sued by your parents, but also because I actually, I really. I love being around kids. And I know that you guys like to laugh, but also many of you like to be scared as long as you know that you're not actually in danger. Right?

[Mindy (Wow in the World Host)]

Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

So I try to strike that B.

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

Do your little ones ask big questions about everything? Like, why do $2 bills exist if no one uses them? How do musicians get paid for their music? Or maybe they're curious. How does someone make money from the stock market? Well, Million Bazillion is back with a new season to help you and your kids understand how money shapes the world around us. As we answer all those questions and more. Listen to that latest season of Million Bazillion on your favorite podcast app. You know when you're just going about your busy day and a voice asks you something like, why do people have crushes?

[Child Participant]

Or do dogs know their dogs?

[Additional Child Participant or Announcer]

The brainzon Podcast is here to help. Every episode answers tough questions with funny skits, cool facts and more. It's a science show for kids of all ages. Whether you grew up with jfk, mtv, TLC or tmz, brainson is for you.

[Adam Gidwitz (Author and Storyteller)]

Listening may induce uncontrollable laughter and turn backseats squabbles into harmonious car trips. Find brains on wherever you get your podcasts. Grim Grimmer Grimmest is a Penna original production created, written and narrated by me, Adam Gidwitz, author of A Tale Dark and Grim, produced and edited by Kaelyn West Associate Producer Rebecca Cunningham field recording by Julia Martin casting and voice direction by Rebecca Cunningham sound design and mixing by Kaylin west executive produced by Molly Barton and Carly Miluri production support by Devin shepherd characters voiced by emmanuel Alpenord, Peter McNerney and Baron Bass. Special thanks to all the kids who joined us in Staten island and Brooklyn for our storytelling sessions. You guys are awesome.