The Belt, The Necklace, and Barbara

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest
Episode: The Belt, The Necklace, and Barbara
Host: Adam Gidwitz
Date: October 16, 2025
Grimm Rating: Grimmer (weird, scary, suspenseful)

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Episode Overview

In this episode of "Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest," Adam Gidwitz, joined by a spirited group of kids, retells the obscure fairy tale "The Belt, The Necklace, and Barbara" by Franz Xava von Schönwerth. The story explores themes of inner and outer beauty, self-worth, the dangers of magical bargains, and the consequences of how society—and even family—treat those who don’t fit conventional standards.

As always, kids comment, joke, and question the tale’s logic, adding humor, insight, and real emotion to a notably "Grimmer" story.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing the Story and Characters

• Adam introduces Barbara—a rare named protagonist for a Grimm tale.
• The kids poke fun at the name, noting it "doesn't sound like a fairy tale name, does it? Kind of sounds like a mom name." (04:00)
• The episode is dedicated to anyone named Barbara, playfully inclusive of listeners (04:05).

2. Barbara’s Outsider Status & the Teasing

• Barbara is "kind and patient and strong and smart, [but] everyone thought she wasn't very attractive." (04:16)
• The children mock the cruel nicknames—Dog Face, Frog Face, Bog Face—and discuss their literal senselessness:
  • “Dogs are so cute. Yes, and if she looked like a dog, she would be cute... So are frogs! It makes no sense.” (05:02)

3. The Pollywog’s Wisdom & Magical Bargain

• A pollywog (young frog) comforts Barbara and encourages self-worth.
• The kids debate the logic of a pollywog at the sea (06:07–06:22), before agreeing: "But it is a fairy tale, so we’re not gonna ask too many questions."
• The pollywog explains that a beautiful sea witch possesses a magical necklace and belt, granting great beauty—but craves apples, which aren’t found under the sea (07:55–08:28).
• Barbara is persuaded to barter with the sea witch, causing the kids to draw connections: "It's a little bit like Rumpelstiltskin!" (13:16)
• When told she must trade away her future firstborn ("the apple of your eye"), the kids immediately realize the trick: “She wants to eat her daughter!” (12:57)

4. Barbara’s Transformation & Its Consequences

• Barbara wins the trade and puts on the magical accessories.
• On her return, everyone reacts in awe at her beauty, but she appears unchanged in her own eyes—except “that there seemed to radiate from within her kindness and patience and strength and intelligence.” (16:23)
• The group analyzes: “Maybe now they can see what’s actually in her.” (16:31)

5. A New Life, A New Family—But Old Bargains Return

• Barbara marries the king, who proposes instantly:
  • "No. The king, just like, the moment he sees her, he's like, would you marry me? And she's like, mm, okay." (17:40)
• She has a daughter, whose only acknowledged attribute is her beauty, causing the girl to feel isolated—a reversal of Barbara’s own upbringing.

6. Reversal and Confrontation with the Sea Witch

• The daughter, seeking self-worth, wanders to the sea and is swept under by a monstrous wave—fulfilling the sea witch’s bargain (23:03).
• The king, upon learning the truth, throws Barbara into the ocean with a chilling order: “Don’t come back without our daughter.” (23:54)

7. A Rescue and Final Showdown

• Barbara, enabled by the necklace and belt to breathe underwater, is guided by a now-grown frog (the pollywog) to the sea witch's coral castle.
• She discovers her daughter in a pot of boiling air—a fairy-tale paradox discussed by the kids (26:13).
• The pollywog reveals himself as the sea witch’s son (“Because frogs don’t live in the sea.” 27:30).
• With the pollywog’s distraction, Barbara rescues her daughter and escapes by casting away the belt and necklace. The sea witch chooses to retrieve her treasures instead of pursuing Barbara, allowing their escape (28:50–29:49).

8. Aftermath and Reflection

• Barbara and her daughter abandon the kingdom and the king, choosing to live happily—and “truthfully” (31:18)–ever after.
• The kids comment: “They left the king because he literally threw Barbara into the ocean." (31:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On fairy tale logic:
  "But it is a fairy tale, so we’re not gonna ask too many questions." (06:21)
  “Maybe like she found those things in the ocean and she put them on when she was like a frog…” (11:20)

• On the cost of beauty:
  "You must promise...to give me your firstborn child, who will be the apple of your eye and therefore the most delicious apple ever.” (12:25, Sea Witch)

• On recognizing true value:
  “Her eyes, her nose, her mouth, her chin, her hair were the same as they had always been, except that there seemed to radiate from within her kindness and patience and strength and intelligence.” (16:23, Adam Gidwitz)

• On intergenerational trauma and reversal:
  “It’s now the opposite, because everybody thinks now the princess is pretty. But first, when the princess's mom went to the sea, she wasn't pretty.” (22:50)

• On family ties and betrayal:
  "[The king] literally threw Barbara into the ocean. … She and her daughter can live seeing each other truthfully." (31:04, 31:18)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:36 — Introduction to Barbara and her background.
• 05:31 — The pollywog appears; discussion of names and teasing.
• 07:55 — The pollywog’s plan: getting the witch’s belt and necklace with apples.
• 09:41–12:20 — The apple-for-beauty bargain and the crucial condition.
• 15:29–16:23 — Barbara’s transformation and how she's perceived by others.
• 17:40–18:47 — Barbara marries the king and has a daughter.
• 18:58 — The daughter's experience as the "apple of Barbara's eye."
• 23:03–23:54 — The sea witch takes the princess; Barbara is thrown into the ocean.
• 25:24–27:06 — Undersea rescue mission; pollywog's identity revealed.
• 28:50–29:51 — The escape: Barbara discards the magical items; mother and daughter escape.
• 30:15–31:18 — Resolution; Barbara and her daughter leave the king behind and start a new life.

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Episode Tone & Kid Commentary

The tone is playful, curious, and irreverent. The kids’ jokes and questions keep the episode lively:

• “Why did they leave [the king] behind?” … “'Cause he's a bum.” (30:47)
• “I think the guy who wrote his stories…maybe he didn’t like his own children." (14:07)
• “She lived grimly ever after! No, not with a husband. They left him behind.” (30:39)

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Takeaway

This retelling highlights the traps of external validation and the cyclical struggles with beauty and love between mothers and daughters. The story is as weird and creepy as promised, but is grounded by themes of empathy, self-worth, and family—given an extra dash of humor and realism by the kids' refreshingly honest commentary.

A fun, layered, and thought-provoking episode perfect for listeners who enjoy fairy tales with unexpected twists and lively kid discussion.

Transcript

[Child Participant]

Pinna.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Hey, everyone, it's Adam Gidwitz from Grim Grimmer grimmest. On Sunday, October 26th, I'm going to be doing a special ticketed event live in Brooklyn. I'll be telling two grim fairytales, and we're gonna invite kids to wear costumes. You can even get VIP tickets for an extra special meet and greet and Halloween costume showcase before the stories. Tickets are on [e-mail] Avery Grimstory that's tinyurl.com Averi Grimm story I'll see you there.

[Child Participant]

Pinna.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Hi, my name is Adam Gidwitz. I'm an author. I'm also a storyteller.

[Child Participant]

I like telling all kinds of stories.

[Adam Gidwitz]

But I especially like telling grim fairy tales. You may think you know grim fairy.

[Child Participant]

Tales, and you may think that they.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Are sweet and boring, but listen, those tales you heard were the cute, happy little kid bedtime versions of the Grimm tales. The original Grimm fairy tales aren't like that at all. They're weird and sometimes gross and often scary. In other words, they're grim. And I'm about to walk into a classroom and tell one of the original grim, grim tales to a bunch of kids.

[Child Participant]

Do you want to join me?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Do you want to hear a grim fairy tale? Let me help you decide on a scale of Grim, Grimmer and Grimmest. This episode is Grimmer. It's weird and scary and suspenseful. If I get to a part of the story and you start to feel.

[Child Participant]

Scared or uncomfortable, this is what you could do.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You could turn down the volume and count to five. Then turn the volume back up.

[Child Participant]

If it still seems like a part.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You don't want to hear, just. Just turn the volume down and count to five again. You know how much weird and gross and scary you're ready for? You know what you need? Okay, I'm at the classroom door now. There are kids inside waiting to hear a grim fairy tale.

[Child Participant]

So are you coming in?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Grim Grimmer Grimace.

[Child Participant]

What's that story we were doing before the one last week? What was that called again?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The 12 tortoises.

[Child Participant]

Oh, yeah. That was a very. That was a very disgusting and very weird story. Because that guy is weird. And don't say his name because I'm gonna laugh a lot.

You mean Franz Ksaber von Schoenberg? The thing about Franz Xava von Schoenvert, he's weird. Is that the story we're going to do today is also by Franz Xava von Schoenvert? Yes, and I warn you, it will be weird.

[Adam Gidwitz]

No.

[Child Participant]

Are we Ready? This story is the belt, the necklace, and Barbara.

What?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yep.

[Child Participant]

Barbara.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Once upon a time, there was a girl called Barbara.

[Child Participant]

Now, we don't often learn the names of heroes in these stories, right? Lots of times. It's just like the oldest son or the princess, right?

Yeah.

And when we do learn their names, they're never Barbara. It just, like, doesn't sound like a fairytale name, does it? Kind of sounds like a mom name, Right?

[Sea Witch]

Maybe she is a mom.

[Child Participant]

Maybe she will be a mom.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Maybe she is a mom.

[Child Participant]

I'm now worried that I've offended somebody named Barbara out there in the audience. So I would like to say this episode is dedicated to anyone named Barbara. Okay.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yay.

[Child Participant]

Yay for Barbara.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Well, poor Barbara had a tough life, because while she was kind and patient and strong and smart, everyone thought she wasn't very attractive.

[Child Participant]

In fact, they thought she was really, really not attractive.

[Adam Gidwitz]

People would see her and instantly begin to make fun of her.

[Child Participant]

They called her Dog Face and Frog Face and Bog Face. You guys know what a bog is?

I think it's like a mucky swamp.

That's exactly right.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And Barbara would say, how can I.

[Barbara]

Look like a dog and a frog and a bog? Those things don't even look alike. That makes no sense.

[Child Participant]

But dogs are so cute.

Yes, and if she looked like a dog, she would be cute.

So are frogs.

It makes no sense. Frogs are cute, too.

Yeah.

Bogs, not so much.

[Adam Gidwitz]

But that didn't stop everyone from teasing her. Anyway. And so Barbara lived a lonely life. She would sit by the sea each day, watching the waves crash white and blue against the black rocks, until one day, a small creature appeared at her feet. He was a pollywog.

[Child Participant]

Who knows what a pollywog is?

Me?

Yeah, you're a pollywog. What does that mean?

I don't know.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Okay. Surreal.

[Child Participant]

Very strange. A pollywog is a baby frog, actually. And before a frog has four legs, it actually starts its life looking kind of like a fish. And then actually, first it starts as a tadpole. A tadpole. And then it gets a couple, two legs in the front, and it's a pollywog. And then it loses its tail and has four legs, and that's a frog. So a polliwog is, like, older than a tadpole but younger than a frog.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Okay.

[Child Participant]

Why is a frog in the ocean?

Why wouldn't a frog be in the ocean?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Explain.

[Child Participant]

Because they're usually in, like, ponds or, like, bogs, Right?

They're freshwater animals. They're not saltwater animals. Good point.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Good Point.

[Child Participant]

But it is a fairy tale.

But it is a fairy tale, so we're not gonna ask too many questions.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Well, this little pollywog appeared by Barbara's feet, and he spoke to her.

[Pollywog/Frog]

I felt your tears falling into the sea. Why are you sad?

[Adam Gidwitz]

And so Barbara explained that everyone was so cruel to her, calling her dog face and frog face and bog face. The pollywock was very offended, not just on her behalf, but for all of them frog kind as well.

[Pollywog/Frog]

What's wrong with having a frog face? I plan to have a frog face one day. And frog faces look nothing like dog faces, which are long and toothy. Or bog faces, because bog means swamp. And swamps are very nice and cozy homes for pollywogs and frogs. Your face doesn't look anything like a nice and cozy home.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The pollywog and Barbara got to talking. And it was immediately evident to the little pollywog that Barbara was kind and patient and strong and smart. And he thought, oh, if only everyone.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Could see how beautiful Barbara is on the inside. They wouldn't call her dog face or frog face or bog Face. They would fall down at her feet and make her their queen because of her beauty.

[Adam Gidwitz]

But how could Barbara make the people of this cruel and stupid world see her for who she really was? Actually, the pollywog knew exactly how, and he told her.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Under the sea there lives a sea witch who wears a magical necklace and a magical belt. This belt and necklace make the witch beautiful beyond belief. So beautiful that it is hard to look at her. Not because she shines brightly, but because she is just too perfect looking. So you just need the sea witch's necklace and belt.

[Barbara]

But how am I supposed to get them?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara asked. The pollywog said the sea witch is.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Very hungry for one specific thing. Apples under the sea. She can get all the fish she wants and all the seaweed. Seaweed she can eat. And she can feast on oysters and clams. But there are no apples under the sea. She mutters about it constantly. All she wants is an apple or two or three. So go get her some apples. Maybe she'll trade her necklace and boat for them. And then you will be as beautiful on the outside as you are on the inside.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara thought this was an excellent plan. She went to an apple orchard near her home, and she picked the three most perfect apples she could find. Yellow, red, like a sunset and speckled with green. And she ran back to the sea. The pollywog was nowhere to be seen. Maybe he had gone to go get the sea witch. So they could make their trade. But Barbara waited and waited and waited, and the polliwog didn't come back. So Barbara shrugged, and not knowing what else to do, she threw an apple into the sea. Nothing happened.

[Child Participant]

What?

[Adam Gidwitz]

At first, but then the sea started to churn like it was a pot coming to a boil. And then rising from the water, came the sea witch. She was the most unbearably beautiful creature Barbara had ever seen. Her skin was seafoam green. Her billowing hair was a dark teal, like the underside of a wave before it breaks. Her eyes were wide set and shone like pearls. Looking at her hurt Barbara's eyes, not because she shone brightly, but because she was just too perfect looking. But Barbara had to look, because around her waist was a beautiful belt made of shells. And around her neck was a beautiful necklace, also made of shells. The sea witch was hungrily eating the apple that Barbara had thrown into the sea. She devoured it quickly, and then she.

[Sea Witch]

Said, do you have any more apples?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara got a sly look on her face.

[Barbara]

I do, but I won't give them to you for free. Give me your necklace and I'll give you another apple.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The sea witch's eyes flashed, and at first Barbara thought they flashed with anger. But the anger gave way to hunger.

[Sea Witch]

Fine.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Snapped the sea witch. She unclasped the necklace and flung it onto the shore. And suddenly the sea witch wasn't quite so hard to look at. Her eyes were even wider set, and her mouth was wide and almost froggy.

[Child Participant]

Maybe like she found those things in the ocean and she put them on when she was like a frog. So now she's gonna be in the frog again.

Very interesting.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara threw the second apple into the waves. The sea witch dove beneath the surface, retrieved it, and ate it greedily.

[Sea Witch]

Then she said, do you have another?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara said, I do, and I'll give.

[Barbara]

It to you in exchange for your belt.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Again the sea witch's eyes flashed with anger, and a clap of thunder sounded far in the distance. But then the anger gave way to hunger, though not as much hunger as before. The sea witch said, all right, girl.

[Sea Witch]

I'll give you this belt in exchange for your apple. And one more thing.

[Barbara]

What thing?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The sea witch said, together, this belt.

[Sea Witch]

And this necklace are incredibly powerful. They will make you as beautiful as I am. If I give you my belt, you must promise not only to give me that apple, but also to give me your firstborn child, who will be the apple of your eye and therefore the most delicious apple ever.

[Child Participant]

What?

Have you ever heard that phrase?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The apple of your eye or the apple of my eye?

[Child Participant]

No, but I think she wants to eat her daughter. It basically means, like, there's everything that. Everything that you think about, everything you look at. Like, apples are big if you put them to your eye, that's all you look at. All apples, all you look at.

I never knew where that phrase came from, but I think that that's a good explanation.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah.

[Child Participant]

So it's the thing that you love the most and you think about the most.

Rumpelstiltskin.

It's a little bit like Rumpelstiltskin. That's right.

I feel like, how does she born a baby? Because if nobody likes her, how does she get married with anybody or something.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Right.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You know what?

[Child Participant]

I think you kind of read her mind.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You'd think that Barbara, being kind and patient and strong and smart, would know not to promise her firstborn child for anything, especially not beauty. But Barbara never thought she would have a child at all. Because who would want to marry someone.

[Child Participant]

Who looked either like a dog or a frog or a bog?

[Adam Gidwitz]

But if she was as beautiful as the sea witch, maybe she would have many children. And losing one would be sad, but better than having no children at all. So she thought about it, and she.

[Child Participant]

Decided, yes, I think yes, too.

I think the guy that wrote his stories, whatever his name is, I don't want to ruin his name, but I think he had some kids. He just didn't like them.

Maybe he didn't like his own children.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara threw the apple into the sea. And the sea witch took off her belt. And suddenly she wasn't beautiful at all. She looked like a giant frog.

[Jane Lindholm]

Frog, frog, frog.

[Adam Gidwitz]

She ate the apple that Barbara threw in one gulp and licked her froggy lips. And as she sank back into the sea, Barbara heard her muttering, mmm, delicious.

[Pollywog/Frog]

But not as delicious as the apple of her eyes.

[Child Participant]

I don't think this is Baba Yaga or Haga Yaga. I think this is Baby Yaga or.

Maybe it's Froggy Yaga.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara put on the necklace and the belt, and she didn't feel different. Had she been tricked? She tried to look at her reflection in the sea, but the frothy waves showed her nothing but churn. She hurried back into town, and it was there that everything changed. People stared as she walked by and then looked away as if Barbara were hard to look at. And then they stole another glance and.

[Sea Witch]

Whispered, who is that beautiful creature?

[Child Participant]

She moves like a princess and looks like a goddess.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Gee, I'd like to marry her.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara ran to her house. But her parents refused to let her in. They didn't recognize her.

[Child Participant]

Why didn't they recognize her?

Because she looks so beautiful.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Because she looks so beautiful. She ran to the center of town looking for a mirror so she could see what everyone else was seeing. She came to a little shop that sold dresses, and inside she found a mirror. And she stood before it.

[Child Participant]

And she looked normal.

She looked the same.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Other than the necklace and the belt, she didn't look different at all. Her eyes, her nose, her mouth, her chin, her hair were the same as.

[Child Participant]

They had always been, except that there.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Seemed to radiate from within her kindness and patience and strength and intelligence.

[Child Participant]

Maybe now they can see what's actually in her.

Maybe that's what's going on.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And she realized that finally, thanks to the magic of the sea witch's necklace and belt, she was as beautiful on the outside as she'd always been on the inside. But Barbara didn't want to stay in this town, where everyone had been cruel to her for so long, nor with her parents, who had turned away their own daughter because they hadn't recognized the beauty that had always been inside of her.

[Child Participant]

Can you understand why she might be.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Mad at her parents?

[Child Participant]

They didn't think that she was herself because they thought she looked beautiful. I think it's because all alone this time, they didn't see how beautiful she is.

[Adam Gidwitz]

She journeyed to the capital of their country where the young king lived. And she had not been in that town for three days when. When someone brought her before the king, and he fell down on one knee and asked her to marry him. And he seemed like a good fellow, so she said yes.

[Child Participant]

Everything okay with that?

No. The king, just like, the moment he sees her, he's like, would you marry me? And she's like, mm, okay, right, Exactly.

I know, I know. She should probably get to know him first. But it's a fairy tale and it's already getting kind of long. And this isn't a love story, so don't worry about the lovey dovey stuff. You're welcome.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So they got married.

[Child Participant]

And soon after that, like, nine months.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Or so, they had a little baby girl. She was beautiful. Her joy and curiosity about the world shining through her eyes and her smile. She was the apple of Barbara's eye. And as you know, apples are delicious, no? So Barbara kept the little girl away from the sea, afraid that any wave could grab her precious daughter and drag her down into the hungry clutches of the sea witch. She coddled her daughter and told her she was beautiful. Every chance she got, her father did too. And so did everyone else in the castle and the capital city and in the whole kingdom. Everyone told the little princess how beautiful she was all the time. Until frankly, the little princess was sick of it.

[Child Participant]

Can you understand how she feels? Why is she annoyed by that?

I think she's sick of it because they said it so many times and they don't notice other things about her.

Like what? What other things don't they notice?

Like her courage, kindness and curiosity.

[Adam Gidwitz]

No one seemed to comment on her joy or her curiosity or her courage or anything else. They just told her she was pretty. So the princess started to spend more time alone. She started to sneak away from her adoring mother and father and wander around the capital city and then farther. She never told her mother where she was going. And when she came back, her mother would scold her and hold her tightly and say she was too beautiful to wander around alone. Which made no sense to the little princess.

[Child Participant]

I honestly think one day she's going to wander into the sea and maybe.

The witch is gonna get her. I think she's gonna go close to the sea and witch is gonna be like, oh, hey little girly. There's just a tsunami.

Interesting prediction.

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[Child Participant]

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[Adam Gidwitz]

So Barbara's daughter kept wandering out of the capital city, out into the kingdom, until finally, she found the sea. Now this was beauty. She sat down beside the sea and watched the waves crash white and blue against the black rocks.

[Child Participant]

She was feeling the same way that.

Her mom was at the beginning of the story. Her mom was sitting by the sea, feeling alone and isolated.

She's like the opposite of her mom. She just wants people to see how she is on the inside.

It's now the opposite, because everybody thinks now the princess is pretty. But first, when the princess's mom went to the sea, Seafood sea wasn't pretty.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Well, as the little princess sat by the sea, watching the waves crash white and blue against the black rocks, she did not see the huge wave rise up above her head until its shadow blocked out the sun. You called it right.

[Child Participant]

Tsunami.

It crashed down upon her and dragged.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Her down into the depths. When the little princess did not come home that night, Barbara knew at once what had happened. She told her husband, the king, everything about the belt and the necklace and her promise to the sea witch. And the king was so angry, he had his soldiers carry Barbara to the seaside and throw her in. And the king shouted after her, don't.

[Child Participant]

Come back without our daughter.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And Barbara began to drown. She sank under the tumultuous waves with their white spray and black depths. The air expired in her lungs. It felt as if her throat and.

[Child Participant]

Chest were having the life squeezed out of them.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And then she saw a frog swimming through the glue.

[Child Participant]

Pollywog.

Why do you say it's a pollywog?

Because it's like tadpole Pollywog frog.

[Adam Gidwitz]

It wasn't a huge frog like the sea witch, but it wasn't a small one either, like the frogs Barbara had seen in ponds. It was the size of a small dog. And as it swam up to Barbara, it said, Breathe. Barbara wanted to tell him that she couldn't under the water, but she was afraid to open her mouth, lest she swallow the sea and drown. But as she sank, the frog swam with her. And again he said, breathe. And Barbara couldn't hold her breath any longer. So she gave up fighting and breathed. And she did not die. The frog said, the belt and the.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Necklace let you breathe under the waves.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara tried to use her voice Polliwog. And the frog said, not anymore.

[Child Participant]

He turned to a frog.

He grew up a little bit.

He's a big boy now.

He's a big boy now.

[Barbara]

Barbara asked, do you know where my daughter is?

[Adam Gidwitz]

And the frog said, follow me. The frog and Barbara swam deep, deep down into the sea. There in the darkest sea gloom, they saw a hulking castle made of dead coral. The frog led Barbara to a window near the sea floor where there was a huge kitchen. And in the huge kitchen was a huge pot on a huge fire.

[Child Participant]

How is there a fire under this?

Anyone have a guess as to how there was fire under the sea?

Because it's a fairy tale.

That's exactly right.

Or it's a gas fire.

Maybe it's a gas fire. And inside the huge pot was air boiling. Because if we. Who can explain that? Why is there air boiling in the pot?

Because they're underwater. So there. So water boils in surrounded by air. So why not the opposite?

Exactly right.

[Adam Gidwitz]

My thinking.

[Child Participant]

Exactly.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And in the pot filled with boiling air was Barbara's daughter, the little princess. And she was not dead yet, but she was getting there.

[Child Participant]

She's getting boiled.

She's getting boiled.

Oh, so she gonna get eaten like an apple.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The air was boiling the princess alive. And the sea witch, who still looked like a giant frog, was puttering around.

[Sea Witch]

The kitchen singing, the apple of my eye will make the sweetest pie and I'll swallow the little girl down. Yummy.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Barbara was about to swim through the window and grab her daughter from the boiling pot when the frog held her back.

[Pollywog/Frog]

The sea witch will catch you, and.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Then you and your daughter will both die, Barbara thought. And then she said, you must distract her. Me?

[Pollywog/Frog]

How?

[Adam Gidwitz]

And Barbara said, aren't you her son? And the frog, who used to be.

[Child Participant]

A polliwog, stammered, how did you know?

[Barbara]

Because frogs don't live in the sea.

[Child Participant]

Who pointed that out before me?

Yeah, I told you.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And the frog nodded. Barbara went on, it's why you knew.

[Barbara]

So much about her.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Again, the frog nodded.

[Barbara]

So go inside and lure the sea witch away from the kitchen while I save my Daughter.

[Adam Gidwitz]

This time the frog did not nod. He just swam through the front door of the sea witch's coral palace, which was also his home, and started calling, mother.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Mother, come quickly. It's an emergency.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The sea witch hurried from the kitchen to find her son, which is when Barbara swam inside and pulled her daughter from the pot of boiling air. The princess saw her mother and put her arms around her mother's neck. But just then, the sea witch rushed into the kitchen with the frog trailing behind.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Mommy. Mommy, don't.

[Adam Gidwitz]

He called. And then he shouted to Barbara, swim.

[Pollywog/Frog]

Swim away as fast as you can.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So Barbara swam out of the window with her daughter wrapped around her neck. But the sea witch swam faster and was gaining on her quickly. What could she do? What could Barbara do? What do you think?

[Child Participant]

Anyone have a suggestion for what Barbara should do?

I think the necklace and the belt are keeping away from her to swim. So she says, take them off.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Just as the sea witch was about to catch Barbara's ankle with her huge froggy hands and drag her down into the depths of the sea, Barbara unclasped the belt from around her waist and let it fall. That's what you said, right? Yeah. The sea witch saw it go and turned and swam back to get it. But then she swam after Barbara again and again she gained on her. And just as she was about to grab Barbara's ankle and drag her down to the depths of Barbara, they took out the necklace. She threw off the necklace. And the sea witch couldn't just let that sink to the bottom of the ocean. So she swam after that as well. Which is when Barbara burst through the surface of the sea and carried her daughter onto the beach. Barbara and her daughter lay there gasping on the sand.

[Child Participant]

And Barbara actually is a pretty good.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Name for a mom, isn't it? Yes. And then the princess looked at Barbara, and her mother looked.

[Child Participant]

Maybe she had the prettiness and all the smartness inside her. So it's still there.

Interesting.

I think that the princess thought that she looked beautiful.

[Adam Gidwitz]

When the princess looked at Barbara, her mother looked exactly the same to her as she had always looked. Barbara and her daughter walked away from the seashore and away from that kingdom. And they never looked back. And they lived happily ever after. The end.

[Child Participant]

Use meh. I told her grimly ever after.

She lived grimly ever after. No, not with a husband. They left him behind.

He's a good guy.

Why did they leave him behind?

Cause he's a bum.

Why is he a bum?

Because he thinks that he just is his, like, without even, like illustrations. He's just like, looks like a bum.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Okay.

[Child Participant]

They left the king because he literally threw Barbara into the ocean.

Yeah, exactly. That's why.

And so he. She didn't want to be the king's wife anymore. So just.

I think that's exactly right. And so she and her daughter can live seeing each other truthfully.

Right.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Introducing A Is for Alfie, the first picture book from the award winning Pinna series, Quentin and Alfie's ABC Adventures. Alfie thinks his name is a little weird, but with his babysitter Quentin, he discovers that every letter holds endless possibilities. From A is for acrobat to E is for Electrician. Written by award winning author Randy Duberck and illustrated by Derek Brooks, this heartwarming, diverse read aloud is perfect for kids 3 to 6. Guiding them through letters while helping them love who they are. Pick up A Is for Alfie wherever books are sold and start your ABC adventure on the page.

[Jane Lindholm]

Kids, you have a lot of questions.

[Child Participant]

Is a crocodile a dinosaur?

Why do people vote?

How does your food turn into your poop?

[Jane Lindholm]

But why? A podcast for curious kids has answers. I'm Jane Lindholm. Join me as we dig deep into everything from science to history, nature, emotions, and sometimes even the weird.

[Child Participant]

Why are jellyfishes made of jelly? Or are they made out of jelly?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Find.

[Jane Lindholm]

But why? Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Grim Grimmer Grimmest is a Pinna original production created, written and narrated by me, Adam Gidwitz, author of A Tale Dark and Grim, produced and edited by Kaelin West Associate producer, Rebecca Cunningham Field recording by Julia Martin casting and voice direction by Rebecca Cunningham Sound design and mixing by Kaelin west executive produced by Molly Barton and Carly Milori. Production support by Devin Shepherd. Characters voiced by Rob Moreeda, Imani Russell and Charlotte Wilson Langley. Special thanks to all the kids who joined us in Celebration, Staten island and Brooklyn for our storytelling sessions. You guys are awesome.