Podcast Summary: Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest

Episode: "The Twelve Tortoises (Part I)"

Host: Adam Gidwitz
Date: October 2, 2025
Spookiness Rating: Grimmer

Overview

In this "Grimmer"-rated episode, bestselling author Adam Gidwitz introduces listeners to a lesser-known, weirder fairy tale, "The Twelve Tortoises," adapted from a story by Franz Xaver von Schönwerth—not the Brothers Grimm. Joined by a group of curious and outspoken kids, Adam unpacks the tale’s eerie turns, the dubious motives of adults, the loyalty of siblings, and a very mysterious blue swan, all with lively banter and playful theories.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: More Grimm Than Grimm

• Adam sets expectations for a weirder-than-usual story:
  • [00:16] “The original Grimm fairy tales aren’t like that at all. They’re weird and sometimes gross and often scary. In other words, they’re grim.”
• He warns listeners about the episode's scarier content and reminds them of the “Grim, Grimmer, Grimmest” spookiness scale.

2. Who Was Franz Xaver von Schönwerth?

• Unlike the Brothers Grimm, Schönwerth didn't edit or publish his stories—his versions are raw, quirky, and only discovered fairly recently.
  • [03:19] Adam: “He did not make them cooler or change the language. And so the stories he wrote down are even weirder than the Brothers Grimm stories, if possible.”

3. Meet the Family: Poverty and Desperation

• The story begins with a destitute mother, father, and two children (Elias and Caroline) searching for food and shelter.
• The group discusses what a tortoise is, and the unique sadness of the family’s plight.

4. The Innkeeper’s Wife and the Cruel Bargain

• The family begs for help at an inn but the selfish innkeeper’s wife refuses food, instead offering to buy the children for ten gold doubloons.
  • [08:02] Child: “I think that woman’s too greedy... I think they’ll be treated like servants.”
• In a bizarre twist true to the original story, the parents give the children away for free, breaking their promise.
  • [09:48] Child: “But you always say, no matter what, we’ll take care of each other. How could you do this?”

5. Life as Slaves and the Dangerous Card Game

• Caroline and Elias are forced to work and eat scraps until the innkeeper's wife offers a menacing game: whoever draws the ace of spades first loses.
  • [11:47] Child: “Is she gonna eat them? Maybe... like she’s going to feed them to her hogs.”
• Caroline and Elias play, and just as the game ends, a majestic blue swan swoops in, grabbing Elias and flying away.

6. Sibling Loyalty and the Blue Swan’s Mystery

• Caroline chases after her brother and the mysterious blue swan into the forest, but loses them.
  • [14:09] Caroline’s refrain: “No matter what, we’ll take care of each other.”
• The kids speculate theories (are the swans their parents? Is the swan a villain or a helper?).

7. Years Pass: Caroline the Servant in a King's Palace

• Caroline finds work in a king's palace. The king, obsessed with cards, is terribly in debt.
• The king tasks Caroline with selling a wilted rose for fifty doubloons or else be sold to the wicked Duke of Gotha.
  • [19:55] King: “Then I’ll have to sell you to the Duke of Gotha. And trust me, you don’t want to work for the Duke. He’s a very wicked man.”

8. A Magical Intervention: The Thirteen Swans

• At her lowest, Caroline meets the blue swan again, now leading twelve others, each with a small barrel (cask) around its neck.
• The blue swan says it will help if she takes the casks, but warns: don’t ask what’s inside, and tell no one where they came from.
  • [22:12] Blue Swan: “Your king is in trouble. If you want, I can help you.”
  • [22:59] Child: “For a swan who stole her brother, you shouldn’t really trust him.”

9. Saving the King – But No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

• Caroline gives the king 13 casks, each filled with 100 gold doubloons.
  • [24:56] Child does the math: “1,300 gold doubloons.”
• The king, greedy again, refuses Caroline her promised reward and has her chased from the palace.
  • [26:10] King: “Do you dare question my generosity, servant? Why, I could have you killed.”

10. Back to the Forest, and The Old Enemy Returns

• Fleeing the guard, Caroline is hidden by the swans and guided back to the now-decaying inn of her childhood.
• The innkeeper’s wife tempts Caroline inside with sweet words, offering “fresh hog’s milk.”
• Suspicion mounts (“Maybe it has poison in it”—Child, [29:57]), but Caroline gives in and promptly collapses into a deep sleep.
  • [31:04] “Caroline took a sip of the hog’s milk, and she fell down in a faint and sank instantly into a deep, deep sleep. The innkeeper’s wife cackled.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Weirdness of Fairy Tales:
  • [04:09] Adam: “...the stories he wrote down are even weirder than the Brothers Grimm stories, if possible.”
• On Parental Betrayal:
  • [09:48] Child: “But you always say, no matter what, we’ll take care of each other. How could you do this?”
• Comic Relief:
  • [04:51] “A tortoise is like a turtle, but it has feet.” – Child
  • [14:32] Child theorizing: “Maybe she—the goose. The parents showed the goose, like getting the kids.”
  • [26:45] Faster than you can say Franz Ksava von Schoenvert...
• On Suspicious Hospitality:
  • [29:14] Child: “She’s doing that sweet voice again.”
  • [30:13] Adam: “And we know that sweet voice. Bad news.”

Important Timestamps

• Intro & Spookiness Scale: 00:16–00:58
• Who is Franz Xaver von Schönwerth: 02:25–04:09
• Family’s Plight & Inn Arrival: 04:43–07:17
• Children Sold for Free: 09:34–10:13
• Card Game and Blue Swan Abduction: 11:16–13:37
• Caroline’s Journey & Theories: 14:09–15:24
• King’s Palace & Rose Challenge: 17:43–19:55
• 13 Swans with Casks: 21:05–22:59
• Restoring King’s Wealth: 24:11–25:13
• King’s Betrayal & Caroline’s Escape: 26:10–27:30
• The Poison Innkeeper & Cliffhanger: 28:15–31:04

Tone and Style

The episode is conversational, humorous, and slightly irreverent despite the dark subject matter, thanks to Adam’s exchanges with the kids. The children’s candid reactions, imaginative guesses, and refusal to accept fairy tale logic add layers of levity while uncovering the story’s deeper themes: trust, betrayal, and sibling loyalty.

Cliffhanger Ending

The episode closes with Caroline fainting after drinking the innkeeper's suspicious hog’s milk, leaving listeners (and especially the kids present) on a classic, frustrated cliffhanger:

• [31:20] Adam: “And that’s all we have time for today.”
• [31:22] Child: “No!”

Tune in next episode to discover what becomes of Caroline, Elias, and the sinister blue swan...