The Two Travelers (Part ll)

Summary

Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest

Episode: The Two Travelers (Part II)

Host: Adam Gidwitz
Date: November 20, 2025
Podcast: Grimm, Grimmer, Grimmest (Pinna)

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Episode Overview

This episode, The Two Travelers (Part II), continues Adam Gidwitz’s retelling of a dark and twisty original Grimm fairy tale. Joined by a lively group of children, Adam explores the repercussions of previous grim events, centering on themes of perspective, fate, guilt, and the balance between optimism and pessimism. With signature humor and honesty, the group navigates spooky (and sometimes gross) details, moral quandaries, and suspenseful plot twists, all culminating in a thought-provoking and truly “grimaced”-level tale.

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Key Discussion Points & Story Beats

Recap and Spookiness Warning (00:52–01:50)

• Adam Gidwitz recaps where the story left off—with the tailor in Mantua after horrifying events, warning listeners that this episode is “grimaced” due to “a lot of death. Like, so much death.”
• Offers tips for kids feeling scared—turn volume down, count to five, and check back in.

The Tavern of Three Views (02:59–07:49)

• The tailor enters a tavern full of corpses, yet oddly filled with the sounds of life.
  • [04:32] Child: “What the heck is going on?”
  • Adam invites guesses and observations; one child quips, “Maybe they just had a radio on, like a Spotify noise.”
• The tailor realizes he can see the tavern three ways by covering each eye:
  • Left eye (optimism): Everyone is alive and happy.
  • Right eye (pessimism): People are alive but anxious and burdened.
  • Both eyes (grim reality): Everything is dead.
  • Adam demonstrates this with a cup of ale, and a child astutely says, “It would be all empty,” when both eyes are used.

The Philosophical Eye Patch (07:49–10:13)

• The tailor fashions an eye patch to cover his right (pessimistic) eye, choosing to live in optimism.
• The children debate whether this approach is wise or if balance is needed:
  • [08:33] Child: “I think he should open both eyes so he could see goodly... both eyes show good and bad.”
  • Adam: “Interesting. So he should balance the two ways of looking at life.”
• The tailor continuously switches the patch, struggling with whether to see the world with compassion (pessimistically) or carefree cheerfulness (optimistically).
• A philosophical moment: the tailor wonders, “Could he live as he used to... when others were suffering?” vs. “would suffering along with them do them any good at all?”

Saving the Old Man and Changing Fate (10:13–14:31)

• The tailor sees a future of death (both eyes open)—an old man is about to be crushed by a falling piano.
• With his optimistic eye, he sees there’s hope, so he rushes and saves the man just in time.
• Spectators hail the tailor a hero.
  • [14:39] Child: “My hero.”
  • Curious bystanders clamor to learn how he predicted the danger.

Fortune Telling and the Ethics of Fate (14:31–17:34)

• The tailor reveals his secret; crowds beg to know how they’ll die and pay him for the knowledge.
• Some respond by vowing to change their fate (swearing off drink, avoiding sea voyages).
  • [15:53] Child (mock dramatic): “I’ll never go near the ocean again.”
• The group discusses whether fate can really be escaped.
  • [16:24] Adam: “You can’t escape your fate.”
• Adam points out the contradiction—sometimes fate can be altered (like the piano) but not always.

The Shoemaker’s Guilt and the Search for Answers (17:34–19:36)

• Cut to the shoemaker, plagued by guilt for his betrayal—but guilt only leads to fear and paranoia, not goodness.
• The shoemaker learns of a fortune teller who can foresee death (the tailor, though he’s unrecognizable now due to beard and eye patch).
  • [18:22] Shoemaker: “I should have left him to die in that forest.”
• The children debate whether the shoemaker deserves punishment or pity.

The Confrontation: Shoe vs. Tailor (19:36–23:14)

• Shoemaker approaches the tailor for his own fortune, unaware of who he is.
  • [20:04] Shoemaker: “Please, kind fortune teller, tell me my fate. How shall I die?”
• The tailor hesitates, seeing the profound suffering already in the shoemaker’s heart, and pities him.
  • [21:08] Tailor (as Death): “Some fates are changeable, but others are not. You already live in fear, sir… Maybe you should try to relax a little. Look at life through the other eye for a change.”
• Shoemaker presses for the truth. The tailor, with his odd, mismatched eyes, delivers the verdict:
  • [22:09] Tailor (as Death): “Death will come for you today.”
  • [22:14] Shoemaker: “Today? Is it the tailor? Will he be the one to kill me at last?”
  • [22:25] Tailor (as Death): “In a... way.”

Downfall and the Inevitable Appointment (23:14–29:16)

• Shoemaker flees, terrified, directly into the path of Death—depicted as a literal character.
  • The kids ask: “Who’s Death?” Adam explains the concept of Death as a character, distinct from the devil, whose job is to bring people to the underworld.
• Shoemaker steals a horse, flees through a silent, ominous forest, and—after a desperate ride—makes it almost to Turin.
  • While trying to leap a stream, he falls, is injured, and begins to drown.
  • Death appears to claim him; the shoemaker asks why Death was surprised to see him earlier.
  • [29:07] Death: “Because we had an appointment right here outside of Turin, and I didn’t expect to see you there in Mantua.”
  • Death leads the shoemaker to the afterlife.

The Tailor’s Fate and the Moral (29:16–29:48)

• The tailor lives many more years, switching his view between optimism and preparedness, never peering into his own fate.
• Children react with a mix of awe and desire for another story, demonstrating their love for dark twists delivered with humor and thoughtfulness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Adam Gidwitz [00:52]: “The original Grimm fairy tales aren’t like that at all. They’re weird and sometimes gross and often scary. In other words, they’re grim.”
• Child [04:32]: “What the heck is going on?” (reacting to the surreal tavern scene)
• Adam Gidwitz [07:18]: “From both eyes, he saw into the shadowy realm of death. He saw how things would end, how people would die.”
• Child [16:03]: “He's going to tell all of them how they're going to die, and they're just going to be fearful for the rest of their lives.”
• Adam Gidwitz [22:09]: “Death will come for you today.” (to the shoemaker)
• Death [29:07]: “Because we had an appointment right here outside of Turin, and I didn’t expect to see you there in Mantua.”

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Key Timestamps

• 00:52–02:59 – Introduction and spookiness warning
• 02:59–07:49 – The tavern scene and discovery of the “three ways of seeing”
• 07:49–10:13 – Eye patch philosophy and debate about worldview
• 10:13–12:06 – Saving the old man; altering the course of fate
• 14:31–16:03 – Fortune-telling and whether people can escape fate
• 17:34–19:36 – The shoemaker’s guilt and search for the fortune teller
• 19:36–23:14 – The fateful meeting of tailor and shoemaker
• 23:14–29:16 – The shoemaker’s frantic flight and encounter with Death
• 29:16–29:48 – The tailor’s epilogue and player reactions

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Tone & Style

Throughout the episode, Adam Gidwitz and the children maintain a playful, inquisitive, and slightly macabre tone. Adam balances scary, mysterious, and funny moments, guiding kids through dark subject matter with wisdom and warmth. He encourages philosophical exploration (“Should he only look through his optimistic eye? Is a balance better?”), and the children’s honest, sometimes silly commentary adds both levity and insight.

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Summary for New Listeners

Even if you haven’t heard the episode, you’ll walk away with a sense of this story’s complexity: The Two Travelers (Part II) uses magical realism (the “eyes” as ways of seeing the world) to explore fate, consequence, and compassion. The narrative is interwoven with children’s genuinely thoughtful questions and remarks, amplifying both the creepiness and the core humanity of this Grimm tale—leaving listeners with much to ponder about how we see others, what we try to control, and how we live with knowledge we can’t always change.

Transcript

[Child Listener]

Pinna.

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[Child Listener]

Pinna.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Hi, my name is Adam Gidwitz. I'm an author. I'm also a storyteller. I like telling all kinds of stories, but I especially like telling grim fairy tales. You may think you know Grimm fairy tales, and you may think that they are sweet and boring, but listen, those tales you heard were the cute, happy little kid bedtime versions of the Grimm tales. The original Grimm fairy tales aren't like that at all. They're weird and sometimes gross and often scary. In other words, they're grim. And I'm about to walk into a classroom and tell one of the original grim, grim tales to a bunch of kids. Do you want to join me? Do you want to hear a grim fairy tale? Let me help you decide on a scale of Grim, Grimmer and grimaced. This episode is grimaced because there is just a lot of death. Like, so much death. If I get to a part of the story and you start to feel scared or uncomfortable, this is what you could do. You could turn down the volume and count to five. Then turn the volume back up. If it still seems like a part you don't want to hear, just turn the volume down and count to five again. You know how much weird and gross and scary you're ready for? You know what you need? Okay, I'm at the classroom door now. There are kids inside waiting to hear a grim fairy tale. So are you coming in? Grim grimmer grimace.

[Child Listener]

What are you doing?

[Adam Gidwitz]

I'm just stretching my legs. Do you want to do it with me?

[Sponsor/Advertiser Voice]

No. Okay.

[Adam Gidwitz]

All right. Time to come back to the rug. Let's do it. This is part two of the Two Travelers. Do you remember where we left off? It was one of the grimmest moments in the history of Of Grim, Grimmer. Grimmest. And it's only going to get worse. The tailor had taken one eye from each corpse and made his way into the town of Mantua. This is the last thing that happened. It was midnight when the tailor arrived in the city of Mantua. The streets were empty, but he wandered around until he Found a tavern that was still open. He went inside and he stopped. He saw the most horrifying sight he had ever seen. He looked around him. His skin crawled. He wanted to turn and flee. Everyone was dead. And now? We'll keep going. Remember, you can turn down the volume if you want. We are still in the middle of this grimmest of grim moments. The bartender's eyes were open, but unseeing blood ran from his mouth. A man in a chair at a nearby table had a knife sticking out of his side. The barmaid looked like she was a hundred years old and her eyes were closed peacefully. But she did not appear to be breathing. And yet there were sounds coming from the tavern. The clink of glasses, the chatter of voices. How was this possible? Everyone was dead.

[Child Listener]

What the heck is going on?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Good question.

[Child Listener]

Maybe they just had a radio on so that. Like a Spotify noise.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You think there were radios and Spotify noises?

[Child Listener]

Once upon a time, I think. Since when? He was talking to the dead people. On the gallows? Yeah, on the gallows. He could talk to them and they could. And the dead people could talk to him.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So.

[Child Listener]

And one of them said, like, half of his foot is, like, in the dead realm or something.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Interesting. The tailor closed his eyes and opened them again. Death. Death as far as he could see. Then he covered his right eye and looked through his left eye. They were alive. They were all alive. They were alive and happy. Talking and drinking and eating and laughing. How had the tailor not seen that before? Then he covered his left eye and opened his right eye. They were alive, but they didn't look happy. They were poor people, worried about the future, trying so hard to smile in the face of the million difficulties that life throws in your way. Then the tailor opened his eyes again, and they all looked dead. He focused on the barmaid. When he opened his left eye, she was a girl of 20, happy and carefree. When he opened his right eye, she was still a girl of 20. But she clearly did not want to be working in a tavern at this hour of the night, bringing ale to old men. When he opened both eyes, she was a hundred years old and dead. When the tailor looked at the man in the chair from his left eye, he was loud and boisterous and clearly loved his Alex. When the tailor looked at the man with his right eye, he was a loud and angry drunk. And when he looked at him with both eyes, he was five years older and someone had stabbed him through the side. The tailor thought he knew what was happening. He closed his right eye and went to the bar and ordered a cup of ale. He drank half of it. He examined it with just his left eye. A cup of ale, half full and frothy, waiting to be drunk. Then he closed his left eye and looked at it with his right. What do you think it looked like then?

[Child Listener]

Dead.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Did it look half full, half empty? It looked half empty. That's right. Then he looked at the cup of ale with both eyes. And he saw. Anyone have a guess?

[Child Listener]

Death.

[Adam Gidwitz]

He didn't see death, but close. What would it be for a cup?

[Child Listener]

It would be all empty.

[Adam Gidwitz]

That's exactly what he saw. He saw an empty cup. So the tailor knew a few things. From his left eye, he saw things as he always had, with an easygoing and optimistic attitude. From his right eye, he saw things as the shoemaker did, Like a pessimist who was always prepared for the worst. And from both eyes, he saw into the shadowy realm of death. He saw how things would end, how people would die.

[Child Listener]

This is like the story. One's bad, one's good. Yeah. It's kind of like repeating, but it's not.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yes, it's kind of like the first half of the story. But repeating in a different way. Great point. So he dug through his tailor's pack until he found some leather. And right there in the tavern, he made himself an eye patch. He covered his right eye with the patch. And suddenly the tavern was full of life and joy. The tailor ordered some food. And that night, as he lay in one of the guest rooms of the tavern. He decided that everything would be just as it used to be. As long as he kept the eye patch over his right eye. What do you think? Is that how he should live?

[Child Listener]

No.

[Adam Gidwitz]

What do you think?

[Child Listener]

I think he's an open both eyes so he could see goodly. But I think that both eyes show good and bad. Like it shows the right side of things. So that's why he said, open his right eye, too.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Interesting. So he should balance the two ways of looking at life. Very interesting. In the morning, when the tailor came down for breakfast, he saw the young barmaid still cleaning up from the night before. She asked him if she could make him some food. And he said yes. But he wondered what she would look like if he switched his eyepatch over. So while she was in the kitchen fixing him up breakfast, he switched his eye patch from his right eye to his left. And when she came back with a plate of sausage and bread, he saw how tired she was and how she wished she could go home. But also the sausage looked fatty and the bread looked stale. So once he'd thanked the barmaid, he switched his eye patch back to his right eye, and the breakfast looked delicious. And he dug in. And when he stood up to leave, he left the barmaid a very generous tip.

[Child Listener]

Back in the day, did they have, like, tips of doubloons?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yes, I'm sure he tipped her a doubloon. He walked around the town of Mantua that day, wondering how his life would be now, looking through his left eye. Life was simple. Looking through his right eye, he better understood the suffering of everyone around him. Could he live as he used to, happy, go lucky and carefree when others were suffering? But on the other hand, or through the other eye, would suffering along with them do them any good at all?

[Child Listener]

So I would see how the. I would take the eyepash off and find the shoemaker and see how he would die. Okay, and then do that.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You just want revenge.

[Child Listener]

If you take both eye patches off, you can actually see. You can sort of see the future. And you can look for. With both of your eyes. You can look for the people that will kind of, like, need the most help if they're going to, like, die young. He should just try and help everyone else instead of just suffering along with them.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Interesting. The tailor kept moving his patch from his right eye to his left eye and back to his right, unable to make up his mind. And just as he was moving it for the hundredth time, in the moment when he had both eyes open, he saw a piano fall from a window and crush an old man. He put the eyepatch back on his left eye. No, the man wasn't dead. The piano had not fallen yet. But the tailor could see that the man was walking right towards where a piano was being lifted from the street to be put through a window on the second floor of a fine house. He would be under it in less than a minute. He was going to be crushed by a piano. There was no hope for him then. He moved the eyepatch to his right eye and looked through his left. And the tailor thought, of course there's hope for him. And he rushed forward, running as fast as he possibly could, and reached the old man just as he passed into the shadow of the piano. The tailor jerked the old man out of the way and crash. The piano fell to the ground, smashing itself to pieces. But the old man was safe.

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[Child Listener]

Patrick, let's go. The clue is floating away in the hot air balloon. Hey, sorry, this is kind of a bad time. Claire and I just found a major clue and now it's airborne. Anyway, I wanted to let you know that the parents behind Law and Order have something brand new for families. Our podcast, Patrick Picklebottom Everyday Mysteries. Patrick, it's headed towards the water tower. Gotta go listen on Apple or wherever you get your podcast.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Many people on the streets of Mantua had seen this and they rushed to the tailor to congratulate him for being a hero and saving the old man's life.

[Child Listener]

My hero.

[Adam Gidwitz]

That was incredible. How did you know? But how had he known the piano would fall? It was magic. They brought him to a tavern, for there were many taverns in Mantua in those days and bought him drinks and begged him to explain how he had known the piano would fall. Please, sir, tell me how you knew.

[Child Listener]

Yes, tell us.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So he told them. Now everyone wanted to know how they would die and if there was a way to prevent it. Please, sir, tell me how I'm going to die.

[Child Listener]

Tell me next. I must avoid death.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So the tailor took off his eyepatch and looked at each person one by one. For some, like the young barmaid, it was clear that they would live long lives and die in their sleep. These people left the tailor's side beaming with hope and joy. But others had tragic accidents in their future. The tailor saw that one man would drink himself to death. That means drinking so much alcohol he got sick and died. The man stood up and swore then and there he would never drink another drop of alcohol again. I'll never drink another drop of alcohol as long as I live. The tailor saw that a lady would drown in the middle of the sea. She vowed never to go on another sea voyage.

[Child Listener]

I'll never go near the ocean again.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The tailor didn't know if these two would avoid their fate or not. Do you think they can? Do you think they can avoid their fate?

[Child Listener]

He's going to tell all of them how they're going to die, and they're just going to be fearful for the rest of their lives. The Sea witch one. I thought I forgot what it was called. They tried to keep the child away, but that didn't work. And I think there's always just gonna be like. Like the tsunami that came in. There's always gonna be like, some.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You can't escape your fate.

[Child Listener]

Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Except the old man in the piano, it did change his fate.

[Child Listener]

I feel like it's one of those stories where it's like, this guy has ruined the whole entire space and time continuum because he. He saved this man from dying. And he was supposed to die.

[Adam Gidwitz]

It's like Back to the Future. The tailor remembered that the old man had not been crushed by a piano. So it seemed that some fates at least could indeed be changed. So he told them their fates. And the people would give the tailor money in exchange, just whatever they could afford. Days and weeks went by, and soon the tailor was famous. He walked the streets and he let his beard grow. And he wore his eye patch, sometimes over his right eye, sometimes over his left, depending on whether he felt he needed to relax or be prepared. And only when someone asked to know their fate would he look through both eyes at once. One thing he never did, though, was look into a mirror with Both eyes. He didn't want to know. What doesn't he want to know?

[Child Listener]

Oh, what? His death.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Yeah. Meanwhile, the shoemaker's life had changed since his journey through the wood. He was plagued by guilt for what he had done to the tailor.

[Child Listener]

He was what?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Plagued by guilt? He felt so guilty for putting out the tailor's eyes. He felt bad.

[Child Listener]

But wasn't he bad?

[Adam Gidwitz]

Well, people can be complicated. They can do bad things and then they can feel guilty about it. He still did a bad thing though, right? But his guilt did not make him kinder. It made him live in fear. Fear of everyone. Fear of his guilt. And especially fear that the tailor would somehow find him and get his revenge.

[Shoemaker]

I should have left him to die in that forest. Instead of bringing him out to the other side.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The shoemaker mumbled to himself as he made his way around Mantua looking for work.

[Child Listener]

Or you should have just let him stay alive. Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Maybe you shouldn't have done all that terrible thing to him in the first place. Does he sound like he's a good guy now? No, no. He's saying he wish he'd let the guy die. Right. Everywhere he went, every minute of every day, he repeated this phrase.

[Shoemaker]

I should have left him to die in that forest.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Which didn't make people very eager to hire him. Can you imagine that? If someone's going to get a job and they're like, will you hire me? I should have let him die in that forest. No, I'm not gonna hire you. You sound terrifying. And then one day, the shoemaker heard that there was a fortune teller in Mantua. One who could see the manner of your death. Who is that fortune teller?

[Child Listener]

The tailor.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The shoemaker was thrilled. Aha.

[Shoemaker]

That's how I will sleep well at night again. The fortune teller will say whether the tailor will be revenged upon me. Or if I will die happily in my bed.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And he hurried off to find the fortune teller.

[Child Listener]

I think the tailor's gonna recognize the shoemaker. And then he's gonna be like, well, I'm gonna kill you. That's how you're gonna die.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I predict. I'm gonna kill you. The shoemaker came across the tailor in a tavern. His beard and hair were long now, and he wore an eye patch over his right eye. The shoemaker didn't recognize him at all. He came to the tailor's table and.

[Shoemaker]

Said, please, kind fortune teller, tell me my fate. How shall I die?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The tailor looked up and nearly fainted. There was the shoemaker who he had shared his bread and money. With his traveling companion, who had put out his eyes in the forest. And the tailor thought I could do anything to him.

[Death]

I could scare him to death. I could tell him to go swim in the ocean where he would surely drown. And he would believe me. Look how scared he is.

[Adam Gidwitz]

But the tailor was looking through his left eye. And he also saw that the shoemaker was being torn to shreds by his guilt. And that the fear and guilt he felt. Were worse punishment Than anything the tailor could do to him. It was as if he were already in hell, Suffering infernal torment here on earth. The tailor pitied him. And so he invited the shoemaker to sit down. He said, are you sure?

[Death]

Sure you want to know your fate? Some fates are changeable, but others are not. You already live in fear, sir. I can see that. Maybe you should try to relax a little. Look at life through the other eye for a change.

[Adam Gidwitz]

But the shoemaker grabbed the tailor's hands.

[Shoemaker]

Please, sir. Please tell me my fate. I cannot take the suspense any longer. With this constant terror. I might as well be in the shadowy land of Death already. I am dead while I live.

[Adam Gidwitz]

He looked at the shoemaker. He removed his eyepatch. The shoemaker was startled. The tailor's eyes were two different colors. One brown and one green. And two different sizes, One large and one small. The tailor gazed with those strange, frightened, frightening eyes. Right into the shoemaker's future. And after a moment, he said, I'm sorry.

[Death]

Death will come for you today.

[Shoemaker]

Today.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Cried the shoemaker.

[Shoemaker]

Is it the tailor? Will he be the one to kill me at last?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The tailor hesitated, then said, in a.

[Death]

Way.

[Child Listener]

I guess that kind of. How is he gonna die?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The shoemaker pleaded.

[Shoemaker]

But can I escape this fate?

[Death]

Is there any way that I do.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Not know, said the tailor.

[Death]

But I know Death is here today in Mantua.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Here? Cried the shoemaker. He leapt to his feet. Then I can escape him without so much as a thank you. He ran from the tavern. As he banged through the door, he ran right into a tall man clad all in black. The shoemaker looked up into his face and.

[Child Listener]

I think it's Death.

[Adam Gidwitz]

It was Death looking down at him. But Death seemed as surprised to see the shoemaker. As the shoemaker was to see Death.

[Child Listener]

Who's Death?

[Sponsor/Advertiser Voice]

Yeah.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So in some fairy tales. Great question. In some fairy tales, the devil is a character. But in this fairy tale and in other fairy tales, Death himself is a character. And his job is to bring people to the underworld. So Death himself was there also, like.

[Child Listener]

His body was there like his dead body?

[Adam Gidwitz]

No, a character called Death. A character whose name is Death and who brings people to the Underworld was there.

[Child Listener]

I'm the Underworld.

[Adam Gidwitz]

The Underworld is another name for the afterlife. Like where you go after you die. Some people believe in heaven, some people believe in hell.

[Child Listener]

I believe in God.

[Adam Gidwitz]

You believe in God. Some people believe there's just an afterlife where people go. But in any way, you believe in these stories, Death brings you from life to death when it's your time. Death's mouth opened into a circle like a portal to the shadowy land of Death. And he pointed at the shoemaker with a bony finger. Death opened his mouth in a big circle and pointed at the shoemaker with a bony finger like.

[Child Listener]

Like, how are you? How can you see? He's like, how can you see?

[Adam Gidwitz]

The shoemaker didn't wait to find out why Death looked so surprised. He raced through town until he found a horse, which he jumped on without paying for and galloped out of Mantua.

[Shoemaker]

I just need to get away, he.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Said to himself as he drove the horse faster and faster.

[Shoemaker]

I know I will go to Turin. And if he tries to follow me, he may well get lost in the forest. Or maybe I will.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Who cares?

[Shoemaker]

At least Death won't find me.

[Adam Gidwitz]

So the shoemaker steered the horse for the forest. The forest was as still as a graveyard. What did we say last time? Do you remember? I said the forest was as still as a remember church. And this time it's as still as a graveyard. Why?

[Child Listener]

Because he's gonna die.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Not a breeze stirred, not a brook murmured, not a bird sang. And not a ray of sunshine found its way through the dense leaves. The horse's hooves pounded the path and the shoemaker kept looking over his shoulder to see if Death was on his tail. But the shoemaker didn't see Death yet. The shoemaker did not know if he was on the two day path or the six. But he did not care. He just pushed his horse harder and harder to escape the pursuit of Death.

[Child Listener]

He said that. So when the tailor was telling the shoemaker's fortune, he said, well, the shoemaker said, will the tailor kill me? And the tailor said, kind of. But right here it's not really kind of.

[Adam Gidwitz]

What do you mean? Like, how is the tailor killing you?

[Child Listener]

I think he means like I. In a way that I kill you. Because he kind of like scared him.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And that might cause his death.

[Child Listener]

Yeah, yeah, I also do agree with you. Because he. If he didn't come, then he wouldn't die. Because he went and he Got frightened that Death was coming for him today. So he ran out, stole a horse, and then went through the woods. And he's either gonna starve to death, or he's not gonna starve to death or take the long route. And Death is gonna find the short route or something. He's just gonna, like, die.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Somehow, Death did not catch him. To the Shoemaker's great surprise, he emerged from the forest with Turin just ahead. He must have chosen the two day path, and his horse had run so fast that the entire journey took less than a day. He pushed the horse on toward Turin, unwilling to slow even for a second. He would be safe if he could just make it to Turin, he was sure. He pushed his horse harder and harder.

[Child Listener]

I think his horse trips.

[Adam Gidwitz]

He came to a small stream, and the Shoemaker urged the horse to leap over it. But the horse was too exhausted to jump. And she stopped short. And the Shoemaker was thrown from the horse. He landed with a splash in the water. His head hit a rock. Blood clouded the water around him, and he began to sink. This, the Shoemaker thought, no, I cannot die here.

[Shoemaker]

Not now. I escaped Death.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And then a form appeared over him and reached down to take his hand. The Shoemaker thought, I am saved. Until he saw that the form who was reaching down to him was Death. Say it again. Say it louder, without your hand. It was Death. The form was Death. Death took him by the hand.

[Shoemaker]

Wait.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Cried the Shoemaker.

[Shoemaker]

Just tell me one thing, please, before you take me.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Death paused, as if he was waiting for the question. So the Shoemaker asked, you saw me in Mantua.

[Shoemaker]

And you looked so surprised.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Why? And Death said, because we had an.

[Death]

Appointment right here outside of Turin, and I didn't expect to see you there in Mantua.

[Adam Gidwitz]

And then he grabbed the Shoemaker and dragged him down to the shadowy land of Death. Meanwhile, the tailor lived for many, many more years, looking through his left eye first and then through his right and then through his left again. So he was always prepared, but always happy. The end. All right. Are you guys okay? I told you a messed up story. Everybody all right? You're not.

[Child Listener]

I want to hear more stories.

[Adam Gidwitz]

I'm gonna miss you guys, too. But we will meet again. You guys were so wonderful. Thank you for being such great storytelling friends.

[Child Listener]

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[Sponsor/Advertiser Voice]

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[Adam Gidwitz]

Available on Apple Podcasts or for more.

[Child Listener]

Information go to gzmshows.com so listen closely, fellow detectives. We've got a case to crack.

[Sponsor/Advertiser Voice]

Introducing A Is For Alfie the first picture book from the award winning Pinna series Quentin and Alfie's ABC Adventures. Alfie thinks his name is a little weird, but with his babysitter Quentin, he discovers that every letter holds endless possibilities, from A is for Acrobat to E is for Electrician. Written by award winning author Randy Duberck and illustrated by Derek Brooks, this heartwarming, diverse read aloud is perfect for kids three to six, guiding them through letters while helping them love who they are. Pick up A Is for Alfie wherever books are sold and start your ABC adventure on the page.

[Adam Gidwitz]

Grim Grimmer Grimmest is a Penna original production created, written and narrated by me, Adam Gidwitz, author of A Tale Dark and Grim Produced and edited by Kaelyn West Associate producer Rebecca Cunningham Field recording by Julia Martin Casting and voice direction by Rebecca Cunningham Sound design and mixing by Kalyn executive produced by Molly Barton and Carly Milori Production support by Devin Shepherd Characters voiced by Emmanuel Alpenord, Andrew Adams, Peter McNerney, Kalyn west and Baron Bass. Special thanks to all the kids who joined us in Staten island and Brooklyn for our storytelling sessions. You guys are awesome.